Guild Wars 2

Hi GW2,

So I was just skimming over the Sylvari page when it occurred to me “Why are Sylvari human-like?” It didn’t take long to find out the answer (Pale Tree likes emulating humans because it likes the way humans look or something.) What I was interested in is could that human look be optional? Sylvari are meant to physically appealing to naturally anthropomorphic races, but what if they had a “natural” state? Just a form where they had the bare minimal (two arms, bipedal, two eyes, none of the extra stuff for a plant.) From a gameplay perspective it would be just as useless as the look they have now, but it might be cool for lore and a new aesthetic look to take over “civilian clothes” for the Sylvari. Just an idea.

It might give away a lore element that ANet wants to remain unknown for now. There is something we don’t know about why the Sylvari / Nightmare Court / Elder Dragons are linked and seeing their true form might give too great a hint, depending on what it is.

I’m curious what it is though, none-the-less.

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Toxyn.9608:

It might give away a lore element that ANet wants to remain unknown for now. There is something we don’t know about why the Sylvari / Nightmare Court / Elder Dragons are linked and seeing their true form might give too great a hint, depending on what it is.

I’m curious what it is though, none-the-less.

You mean Anet didn’t write the reason yet. They must have left it open for developing future content.

This is their true form.

Pale tree observed humans while it grew for a very long time and learned how humans “work” and emulated it and created Sylvari.

This is their true form. For anything else Pale tree would probably need another 100-200 years looking at different life form and thinking how to emulate it.

Also there are many Pale Trees.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Those are the most accepted reasons for why the sylvari look like they do, dating back to forum discussions years ago. There’s also a theory that sylvari can’t exist without an imprint to replicate, so they have no “natural” form, and another theory that the Pale Tree is a type of dragon, or they are the antithesis of dragons. Basically, dragons embody entropy and these trees (there are more than one) embody renewel. Together they form an engine of change in the world that keeps Tyria turning (metaphysically at least).

Personally, I expect we will see new Pale Trees (although they may not be pale, specifically) with their own unique sylvari populations, introduced with each major expansion, right alongside the new dragon threat.

Killyox.3950:

This is their true form.

Pale tree observed humans while it grew for a very long time and learned how humans “work” and emulated it and created Sylvari.

This is their true form. For anything else Pale tree would probably need another 100-200 years looking at different life form and thinking how to emulate it.

Also there are many Pale Trees.

You forget that the Pale Tree also creates Sylvan Hounds which are entirely different than the Sylvari.

Blacklight.2871:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Those are the most accepted reasons for why the sylvari look like they do, dating back to forum discussions years ago. There’s also a theory that sylvari can’t exist without an imprint to replicate, so they have no “natural” form, and another theory that the Pale Tree is a type of dragon, or they are the antithesis of dragons. Basically, dragons embody entropy and these trees (there are more than one) embody renewel. Together they form an engine of change in the world that keeps Tyria turning (metaphysically at least).

Personally, I expect we will see new Pale Trees (although they may not be pale, specifically) with their own unique sylvari populations, introduced with each major expansion, right alongside the new dragon threat.

We already get info about other Pale Tree in the game, up in the maguuma jungle regions and we get to meet 1 sylvari from the other Pale Tree. Thing is; he does not know nightmare court nor does he know any teaching like velen’s but he is honorary.

He does not know what a “Pale Tree” is until you explain it to him. They also look human like but don’t have anything nightmare court like. He also does NOT have a link with his own Tree like our sylvari do. We can assume there are others too.

Oglaf.1074:

Killyox.3950:

This is their true form.

Pale tree observed humans while it grew for a very long time and learned how humans “work” and emulated it and created Sylvari.

This is their true form. For anything else Pale tree would probably need another 100-200 years looking at different life form and thinking how to emulate it.

Also there are many Pale Trees.

You forget that the Pale Tree also creates Sylvan Hounds which are entirely different than the Sylvari.

Please provide source because Sylvan Hounds afaik are not product of Pale Tree.

Their form is whatever they look like. It’s not like ny other form exists and not like they can change their form at will.

Anything that does not look like sylvari is simply not sylvari. That’s why sylvan hounds are not sylvari ;p

Killyox.3950:

Blacklight.2871:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Those are the most accepted reasons for why the sylvari look like they do, dating back to forum discussions years ago. There’s also a theory that sylvari can’t exist without an imprint to replicate, so they have no “natural” form, and another theory that the Pale Tree is a type of dragon, or they are the antithesis of dragons. Basically, dragons embody entropy and these trees (there are more than one) embody renewel. Together they form an engine of change in the world that keeps Tyria turning (metaphysically at least).

Personally, I expect we will see new Pale Trees (although they may not be pale, specifically) with their own unique sylvari populations, introduced with each major expansion, right alongside the new dragon threat.

We already get info about other Pale Tree in the game, up in the maguuma jungle regions and we get to meet 1 sylvari from the other Pale Tree. Thing is; he does not know nightmare court nor does he know any teaching like velen’s but he is honorary.

He does not know what a “Pale Tree” is until you explain it to him. They also look human like but don’t have anything nightmare court like. He also does NOT have a link with his own Tree like our sylvari do. We can assume there are others too.

I have a theory about that too. That individual is a left over from the last time the dragons appeared in the world. When the dragons were defeated, the trees themselves also eventually disappeared, along with their sylvari children who could no longer be reproduced. This one odd sylvari, for some reason, stayed around. But over the centuries (millenia?), lost touch with the reason he was here in the first place and eventually lost the memory of who he was. Aside from the dragons, he may be the oldest living creature in Tyria.

Love to see more of that particular story revealed.

They don’t have a true form.. how the heck do you come onto this weird thought that isn’t true ???

The form of the Sylvari is just simple based on humans, because the lore is already delivering the true reason, why the look how they look.
The centaur Ventari nurtured and cared for a mystiful plant, that got originally planted by the human Ronan.
Theories of the Asuras are saying, that the pale tree absorbed basically the.you know, ..you could say “DNA” of the dead Ronan who got buried at the roots of the tree for his grave and by doing this the fruits of the pale tree became the Sylvari, human like looking plants.

So I see absolutely no point here, what makes it a viable theory to believe, that Sylvary have any kind of other “form”.
Sylvari are, what the are already ..“Plant Human”. Point.

Orpheal.8263:

They don’t have a true form.. how the heck do you come onto this weird thought that isn’t true ???

The form of the Sylvari is just simple based on humans, because the lore is already delivering the true reason, why the look how they look.
The centaur Ventari nurtured and cared for a mystiful plant, that got originally planted by the human Ronan.
Theories of the Asuras are saying, that the pale tree absorbed basically the.you know, ..you could say “DNA” of the dead Ronan who got buried at the roots of the tree for his grave and by doing this the fruits of the pale tree became the Sylvari, human like looking plants.

So I see absolutely no point here, what makes it a viable theory to believe, that Sylvary have any kind of other “form”.
Sylvari are, what the are already ..“Plant Human”. Point.

What if a centaur had planted that seed and it had grown over the grave of a centaur? What if it had been a charr or a norn or an asura? What if it had been a skritt? Still a human form today? If not, then human is not their natural form. If it requires the genetimagical input of another sentient species for the tree’s seed to even germinate, and that input influences the form of the “fruit” that that tree produces, it could then be said that sylvari have no natural form.

Imagine how your Sylvari would look if the Pale Tree was planted in Bush’s backyard.

Killyox.3950:

Oglaf.1074:

Killyox.3950:

This is their true form.

Pale tree observed humans while it grew for a very long time and learned how humans “work” and emulated it and created Sylvari.

This is their true form. For anything else Pale tree would probably need another 100-200 years looking at different life form and thinking how to emulate it.

Also there are many Pale Trees.

You forget that the Pale Tree also creates Sylvan Hounds which are entirely different than the Sylvari.

Please provide source because Sylvan Hounds afaik are not product of Pale Tree.

They are. You can talk to Parroen in the Omphalos Chamber about the puppies there, and he’ll tell you the Pale Tree sprouted them this morning. I feel like we got that information well earlier in an interview or blog post, but I can’t name which one it might have been.

Blacklight.2871:

Killyox.3950:

Blacklight.2871:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Those are the most accepted reasons for why the sylvari look like they do, dating back to forum discussions years ago. There’s also a theory that sylvari can’t exist without an imprint to replicate, so they have no “natural” form, and another theory that the Pale Tree is a type of dragon, or they are the antithesis of dragons. Basically, dragons embody entropy and these trees (there are more than one) embody renewel. Together they form an engine of change in the world that keeps Tyria turning (metaphysically at least).

Personally, I expect we will see new Pale Trees (although they may not be pale, specifically) with their own unique sylvari populations, introduced with each major expansion, right alongside the new dragon threat.

We already get info about other Pale Tree in the game, up in the maguuma jungle regions and we get to meet 1 sylvari from the other Pale Tree. Thing is; he does not know nightmare court nor does he know any teaching like velen’s but he is honorary.

He does not know what a “Pale Tree” is until you explain it to him. They also look human like but don’t have anything nightmare court like. He also does NOT have a link with his own Tree like our sylvari do. We can assume there are others too.

I have a theory about that too. That individual is a left over from the last time the dragons appeared in the world. When the dragons were defeated, the trees themselves also eventually disappeared, along with their sylvari children who could no longer be reproduced. This one odd sylvari, for some reason, stayed around. But over the centuries (millenia?), lost touch with the reason he was here in the first place and eventually lost the memory of who he was. Aside from the dragons, he may be the oldest living creature in Tyria.

Love to see more of that particular story revealed.

If you take Caithe’s path in that story you’ll find out he’s quite genuinely newborn—the place he last remember is exactly where his pod is, and that’s only a couple week old memory. We definitely already have another existing and grown tree out there.

Killyox.3950:

Oglaf.1074:

Killyox.3950:

This is their true form.

Pale tree observed humans while it grew for a very long time and learned how humans “work” and emulated it and created Sylvari.

This is their true form. For anything else Pale tree would probably need another 100-200 years looking at different life form and thinking how to emulate it.

Also there are many Pale Trees.

You forget that the Pale Tree also creates Sylvan Hounds which are entirely different than the Sylvari.

Please provide source because Sylvan Hounds afaik are not product of Pale Tree.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sylvan_Hound

“Sylvan Hounds are dogs, born from the Pale Tree”.

There is another discussion going about multiple Pale Trees existing. If there is in fact a 2nd pale tree, as the wiki and some lore would dictate, why are these Sylvari also in human form (Malyck) if their tree was not planted by a human on a human grave? This leads me to believe they are just naturally humanoid.

It very well could be—or it could be that the other tree is close enough to the Bloodstone out there (where a bunch of human sacrifices were made) that there were enough human bodies for it to pull from too (we also killed a ton of White Mantle humans in general out there who probably never got properly transported to a proper burial site, so there could be plenty other places with an abundance of dead human in the soil. Aurora Glade involved lots of White Mantle death too and would probably be on the way).

Of course, it’s also possible that the two trees don’t have the same reason for having humanoid Sylvari—just as it’s possible they don’t both hold sentience, or a tied to a/the Dream. The Pale Tree may have made a conscious decision and the other tree may have come naturally, or just pulled from what it could find with no idea what it was really looking at.

Either way, it appear humans are the bees knees amongst plant life pop culture.

I understand that the Sylvari as they are do not have a second form, my question is why does that have to be canon forever? Things can change and evolve in a story and the Sylvari are probably the easiest story in the game to edit. I mean, they have magic physiology already, who knows what else they can do?

It doesn’t “have” to be, but as it stands there’s really not any reason or sense for it, either for the Pale Tree to change her image of the Sylvari or for them to suddenly get transformation powers or for them to want a second form, as the Sylvari seem comfortable in the anatomy they do have.

Blacklight.2871:

Killyox.3950:

Blacklight.2871:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

i thought it was either because…
the pale tree seed was influenced by ronan carrying it (i believe this is what is stated on the wiki… but am too lazy to check)
or;
it was planted on a human graveyard; and emulated what it found

Those are the most accepted reasons for why the sylvari look like they do, dating back to forum discussions years ago. There’s also a theory that sylvari can’t exist without an imprint to replicate, so they have no “natural” form, and another theory that the Pale Tree is a type of dragon, or they are the antithesis of dragons. Basically, dragons embody entropy and these trees (there are more than one) embody renewel. Together they form an engine of change in the world that keeps Tyria turning (metaphysically at least).

Personally, I expect we will see new Pale Trees (although they may not be pale, specifically) with their own unique sylvari populations, introduced with each major expansion, right alongside the new dragon threat.

We already get info about other Pale Tree in the game, up in the maguuma jungle regions and we get to meet 1 sylvari from the other Pale Tree. Thing is; he does not know nightmare court nor does he know any teaching like velen’s but he is honorary.

He does not know what a “Pale Tree” is until you explain it to him. They also look human like but don’t have anything nightmare court like. He also does NOT have a link with his own Tree like our sylvari do. We can assume there are others too.

I have a theory about that too. That individual is a left over from the last time the dragons appeared in the world.

He can’t be because he was born 2 weeks before that’s why he has no memories and you can see the seed or whatever that he came from by the river.

Goopy.7185:

I understand that the Sylvari as they are do not have a second form, my question is why does that have to be canon forever? Things can change and evolve in a story and the Sylvari are probably the easiest story in the game to edit. I mean, they have magic physiology already, who knows what else they can do?

Because if there would be new type then it would not be sylvari. Same way like dwarfs are dwarfs, human humans, norn norn, elves elves and so on. It would be a new type and thus with a new name for it.

In GW1 there were walking plant monsters in the Maguuma called Thorn Stalkers that have not shown a presence in GW2.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Thorn_Stalker

When I first heard that the Sylvari were plant people I thought that they would be related to these somehow. If they do have a “true form”, it would probably look like that.

Wha? Sylvari having a humanoid appearance is their true form. It has nothing to do with whether or not tree seed is planted on a human grave or not. Does no one read the lore before they start to discuss lore related topics? Malyck’s appearance is proof of this.

As for Malyck, we know that he IS NOT a remnant of the last dragon awakening because he tells us, Caithe and Traeherne that he was born two weeks prior to his encounter with us. In regards to why his tree does not have a “Dream” or why his people don’t share the same mental/psychic link thing with each other and their tree like we do the main theory thats been poping up is that it has to do with his tree not being influenced by the Ventari tablet.

My theory as to why we have a “Dream” and Malyck’s people don’t is because the trees are intended to absorb knowledge from their surroundings and then formulate the “Dream” connection we have in order to pass that knowledge on to its spawn so they are born ready to take on the world with knowledge and experience hard wired into them since Sylvari are born fully grown in an adult form. Our tree, and therefore its spawn, meaning us, are more knowledgeable, connected and better prepared to face the challenges of the new world we are awakening in because our tree had the Ventari Tablet to learn from as well as Ronan but Malyck’s tree most likely grew in an unpopulated area. By that I mean where ever his tree is at does not have any civilizations near by to learn from and therefore it could not generate a dream for its spawn since it did not absorb any knowledge from other cultures.

Actually I think it would be quite impossible for Malyck to have not had a dream seeing as he is basically equivalent to a fully functional adult despite being only two weeks old. It is more likely that he actually did have a dream similar to the our Sylvari and he forgot about it because of some type of trauma he endured in between his birth and when we met him. Indeed there is some mention of this during the quest where you meet him. Otherwise you’d have to assume he is sometype of super genius who went from being a complete blank slank to a fully functional adult within two weeks and that to me seems preposterous.

What we don’t know is whether the dream he did have is similar to the the dream we have which has both didactic and prophetic components or whether his dream is didactic only.

Simple… it was hard to design and animate armored mushrooms

The sylvari seem to be more like the fruit of the Pale tree. they are confirmed to be the pale Trees interpretation of humanity and as someone else said, she also makes fern hounds. so I would lable any other form of pale tree ‘fruit’ as a diffrent species like the fern hounds. So another way to put it is the definition of sylvari is the humanoid formed ‘fruit" of the pale Tree, so that would mean there really is no “true form” since the name is applied specifically to the humanoid form. it would also mean there is no pale tree ’fruit’ beyond what the Pale Tree is creating. So, really the “real race” is the pale tree and her ‘great tree’ kind while the sylvari are just “buds” off of her.