Guild Wars 2

When comparing the Sylvari grove to the other races’ capitals, I just feel it isn’t really a capital, at most it is a small settlement.

The most obvious thing I am missing is housing and buildings. Caithe has a room, there are a handful of things that could be doors and there are a few pod-like structures throughout the grove, but the rest is just open, useless space. Even the houses, as far as they exist now, are featureless and just lacking any utility and furniture. They’re often too small to do anything useful. In nature, plants grow in patterns to optimize their utility, for example to have big surface areas for their leaves, or as many flowers in a small space as possible. The grove has tall open houses, but the space can’t be used for anything useful.

Where do all the thousands of Sylvari sleep? Where do they store their food? And their fancy human clothes? Where is the furniture, thousands of Sylvari must want to sit down somewhere, yes? Where does the bank store its stuff?

There are two other examples of races in games that use organic plant structures for their homes, the Telvanni (Morrowind) and the Iskai (Albion).

A Telvanni town or keep consists of many of those pods, similar to those seen in the grove, but many dozens clustered together with doors on each one, and open walkways running up to them and between them. Each pod houses one or more Telvanni, depending on their social status.

Iskai grow their cities as well, but these are laid out more like a conventional city, with streets and large buildings for each house or guild, shared with many Iskai. The unique feature is that they have many canals inside and outside the buildings to distribute the water to the plant structures. Houses are stuffed full of mostly wooden furniture.

I feel the architecture of these two races are thought out, but this is lacking for the Sylvari. I would personally love it if anet would go with the Telvanni route and fill up the grove being filled up with hundreds of house-pods. And that accessible pods have proper furnishing, like storage chests, beds, tables and chairs, shelves, places to prepare food, etc.

As far as I can tell, though, the Sylvari seem to share most things.

As far as sleeping I’ve seen a few NPCs just out and about on the ground in the grove sleeping.

So maybe they don’t need a whole lot of space for personal belongings?

It’s only one area, but Dreamer’s Terrace has open houses with mushroom tables and chairs, and showers, and what have you.

Banks have never really needed a place to store their things. In Guild Wars 1 Xunlai chests magically transported their contents to a personalized chest in Kaineng, waiting for you to remove their contents. I imagine bankers in guild wars use a similar enchantment.

You are applying “human constraints” to a race that isn’t human.

Yeah sure, the Grove might look small, but all the other cities are hundreds of years old (even Lion’s Arch is almost hundred). The Grove is 25 and was built with limited knowledge of architecture that could have been barely applied to plants anyway.

There are 4 sleeping areas in the lowest floor, one for each cycle (time that the sylvari was born). Why do you think the sylvari own houses?

Agree with the human constraints comment. From what I’ve seen and inferred, the sylvari more or less live wherever it suits their fancy. They all share living space, are content to just sleep more or less anywhere, aren’t terribly materialistic, and banks use magic.

I think the big difference here too is that the main city isn’t really a city. It is more of a combo town and racial leader. So yeah, it is a pathetic city if you approach it from a more tyrian human point of view but it isn’t trying to be that.

Side note, wish they’d put in more secret areas in the Grove, though.

Do Sylvari need housing structures? Think about it from their perspective and worldview.

Ill admit that its not very impressive, but it has sense on a new race that likes to wander and experience things.

I love the grove, took my breath away the first time. I think it totally fits the sylvari race.

Sialor.7396:

You are applying “human constraints” to a race that isn’t human.

Yeah sure, the Grove might look small, but all the other cities are hundreds of years old (even Lion’s Arch is almost hundred). The Grove is 25 and was built with limited knowledge of architecture that could have been barely applied to plants anyway.

LA is way more that 100yrs old. It was the capital of Kryta in GW1 and had been for hundred of years, ever since the White Mantle had taken control, until the events of GW1: Prophecies cast them out.

other than that, yes, they Sylvari have only been around for 25 years, their population is much smaller than that of the other races. City growth correlates to the population of that city.

SciChronic.3846:

LA is way more that 100yrs old. It was the capital of Kryta in GW1 and had been for hundred of years, ever since the White Mantle had taken control, until the events of GW1: Prophecies cast them out.

I was counting the time it took to build it again, the old LA is almost completely under the sea.

i think it is fair to apply a certain level of anthropomorphism to the Sylvari, especially since they have taken on many human attributes: they look human, wear human clothing, and talk in posh accents; they even farm and trade.

i am confused by what sort of housing they actually need – for that matter, i’m not exactly sure what they need to survive! there are a few pod-like structures throughout The Grove and surrounding forests that appear to be homes, but it’s not totally clear what function(s) the pods serve.

as far as The Grove is concerned, i agree that it is lacking something. i understand that the Sylvari are new to Tyria and are still finding their way in the world, but i feel the capital city should provide me with more context for who and what this race is all about. i am enjoying playing my Sylvari, but i am not sure i totally ‘get it’.

I agree with the OP. There is simply less to explore than the other cities. And the lack of houselike structures of any sort jumps out at me when exploring. If they were a nomadic culture, always on the move, I would expect temporary bedding locations like tents or fancy hammocks across branches, etc. If they settle in the region for long periods of time, I expect more permanent housing for protection against the elements and storing belongings and cooking and eating, whether its pods, boles in big tree trunks, hobbit-like holes, etc. You can claim these are the trappings of humans and aren’t needed, but that’s a shoddy excuse IMO and lazy in design and concept. (you can rule out anything you don’t feel like fleshing out and designing with that logic, it just doesn’t hold water) Besides, you often see houselike structures that Sylvari NPC’s are in when exploring the questing/fighting zones.

Why should they have all the things that you have mentioned? The last I checked their where house for each Luminary. Which are Aife Luminary of Dawn. Here all the sylvari born come to this house to learn all that they must learn and sleep there too. Same goes for the rest of the house like Niamh of Noon, Malomedies of Night, and house of Kahedins of the cycle of dusk. To me the way I see them in time the grove will develop to a fully fletch city with load of pod house everywhere. You have to remember there was only a few of them to start with. It’s only an till now that they start to pop out like rain drops.

Something to consider that I believe a lot of folks are missing about the Grove, it itself is a huge “house”. It’s a living Tree and it “houses” all the Sylvari.

I agree with everyone that the Sylvari are more Communistic/more Socialist in their approach to life and living arrangements. Even the Luminary’s houses are filled with other sprouts that they are teaching. The main hall in the grove is shared by everyone. Take into consideration you can also just walk into each Luminary’s house too. The small “houses” we see in Sylvari colonies aren’t even “very personalized” the whole area is a shelter.

The strong idea of individuality (as subscribed by others) is thrown into a contortion when you have a race of people who all dream and share empathic bonds with one another. It’s why the Nightmare Court are such a horror to the Sylvari.

The Soundless might evolve to be more “human” like.

My only problem with the Grove is the ridiculous amount of sparkflys everywhere. Constant buzzing everywhere annoys me to the point that I try to avoid the Grove as much as possible.