Guild Wars 2

I am one of the commanders on Far Shiverpeaks, that daily tries to organize the battles against Teq, and I sincerly hope that people will read this.

Yesterday was chocking for me to say the least.

We all met up and started organizing the battle, and the first battle we indeed won. Then we decided to try again……

We made all the preparations, did all we could, but the battle didn’t go in our favor, as happens (not a complain about difficulty, I really love this fight and I love to organize it!), but we, the commanders, decided to give it out best, even though it looked dark, but when we got to the 50% laser event, everything went wrong.

A few people had decided, that since we were indeed low on time, then why not fail the event to get the hidden achievement, so they tried to saboteur the effort of everyone else by trying to fail the laser event, even though the commanders and the majority of players did their best to succeed.

And succeed we did! The laser event at least….

And because we succeeded, we the commanders suddenly get called kittens, pathetic and more in mapchat, because, lo and behold, we are organizing the fight and trying to win…..

The commanders (including me) left for a dungeon after that to get a break from Teq and to cool down (at least I needed to cool down…). Later in the evening we returned and made an effort to beat Tequatl again

And again we were low on time, and again a few decided to act against the collected effort and sabotage the laserevent for the hidden achievement, this time with their success. After that, I admittedly exploded (Not wise of me, I know and I sincerly appologize for the uncivilized rant to any that might have heard…).

Now a question to the community: Are we really like that? Do we really call eachother names, saboteur peoples efforts to beat the games content and ruin the otherwise great atmosfeare in the game for a hidden achievement, that doesn´t even give achievement points?

Tequatl recuires effort. Tequatl recuires planning, teamwork, organizing and for people to listen to the commanders to work. And it recuires for everyone to do what they can.

I have my Sunbringer title. I stay after the first kill to beat Teq again even though I will get nothing for my efforts, and I know my fellow commanders on Far Shiverpeaks do the same. We use gold for free buffs for everyone and stay for entire afternoons and evenings often to beat the dragon. And why?

We find the battle fun, and we want to help others to get their achievements and feel the exitement and glory it is to beat Tequatl! We stay so others have a chance!

I am not asking for people to worship the commanders, we are only players like yourselves. All I ask is a bit of respect for our efforts, cause we are after all there to help. I ask only to be listened to, so we can get things organized. I ask of you to follow orders only so we can beat the dragon, and I ask of you to give it what you can and give us feedback and tactical suggestions and correct us if we are wrong. I return we will give our all to take down Tequatl and listen to you, if your have anything constructive to add.

But I won’t stand to be called a kitten and to have our collected efforts saboteured by a few for a useless achievement!

I hope my plea will reach the right people. I will continue to battle Tequatl, but yesterday was a chock, since all the Tequatl fight has done until now for the people on Far Shiverpeaks is to bring us together and created a really nice atmospheare. Don´t ruin it, please!

What needs to be said in the end though: I realise that most people around me wants to help us beat Teq and do whatever they can, and I haven´t forgotten you!

Thank you for reading.

Ask yourself this: why did Anet put this hidden ‘achievement’ in, if not to make certain players deliberately screw up the event for everyone else, hence adding to it’s ‘difficulty’?

I really feel for you, as having once run guild raids of 80+, etc I know how much time and effort is required to organise these things. But ask yourself this: do you really have nothing better to do than to spend weeks (and most of your day) organising and battling one boss that basically drops nothing more than a boss you can do on a casual basis in 5-10 minutes. I know it’s nice to do this for others, and I also know that it’s good when it goes right and people follow your orders and get things done- and how $£^$£$^%^&$ing annoying it is when they don’t.

You’ll burn out soon when you realise most people totally fail to appreciate the time and effort you put in as most people are focused on ‘me’ when it comes down to it.

Sad to say, the people ruining it are probably not the ones that read forums, and if they do, they are the sort that laugh at posts like yours rather than think of the consequences of their actions.

Thank you for the answer

And you are without a doubt right (though I will say this: I don´t spend most of my day, university does not allow me that xD).

Thank you for “slapping me in the face” (and that is meant as a good thing, don´t take it wrong!), cause I reread and saw some hints of self pity in there (and boooy, I hate selfpity, sorry for that)

I´m just trying to say to people: Let´s not fall Down the road these Guys took. If people want their hidden achievement, there is probably an overflow somewhere they can take over.

Again, I appreciate your answer, thank you

We are not all like this.

Sadly this game is also played by alot of selfish people, children without manners etc. For some parents its easier to plant their kid at pc and let internet upbring them…

And I know not all are like this, far from! Most people taking part are as gamers are most: willing to put up an effort for the fight!

I´m sorry if I gave that impression, that was not my intent

Sorry you had some selfish players at your attempts. I wish Anet would not create achievements that promote failing and instead adds more that support behaviour that helps the encounter (kill 100 fingers for example!). This goes for all content that is meant for more then 1 player and not just Tequatl.

You may be a good commander. But why should anyone want to take advice from a bad commander? Who only bought the title.

It’s because people are selfish and feel entitled. They feel like you must play like them otherwise GTFO. I see the same thing with champ farms where a small group expects people to follow them or else. Players are unable to play the game like they were able to many months ago.

I almost wonder if sabotaging an event like that is actually reportable.

Stay classy, Far Shiverpeaks.

Onshidesigns.1069:

You may be a good commander. But why should anyone want to take advice from a bad commander? Who only bought the title.

I don´t know if I´m a good commander. All I can answer about that, is that the players welcome me when I enter the map, and that I just got my tag a few days ago, cause people kept sending me money with a message it was for my “commander-tag fond”, so I conclude, that I can´t be completely bonkers.

And following a commander no matter if they know what they are doing or not, was not what I was trying to say, cause if they don´t know what they do, then by all Means, dethrone them and take over! I just ask for people to follow a general code of conduct, and that is the civilized one.

Ayrilana.1396:

I almost wonder if sabotaging an event like that is actually reportable.

Oh, I wish it was. I can take a lot, if we lose, then we lose. No hard feeling there, Things can very easlily go haywire But sabotaging and name calling…… That´s entirely different.

Mastruq.2463:

Sorry you had some selfish players at your attempts. I wish Anet would not create achievements that promote failing and instead adds more that support behaviour that helps the encounter (kill 100 fingers for example!). This goes for all content that is meant for more then 1 player and not just Tequatl.

No need to say sorry, unless you are one of my saboteurs of cause (I can tell you aren´t) And yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Achievements should promote success, not encourage defeat.

I hope A-net stumbles across this……

Well, I just wanted to get some attention to this problem, so that people know it exists. It might just be us, who are unlucky, but keep an eye out, there are saboteurs out there xD

I enjoy having a fight in the game that requires some amount of complexity and organization to win, so kudos to ANet for that.

However, one of the things that was specifically worked into the game on release, was that there weren’t any events with instant-fail mechanics, or mechanics that could cause an event to fail because of the AFKness of a number of individuals or flat out trolling like what was described above.

Kudos to the Devs for revamping Tequatl into what it is, but they fell far, far short on the aforementioned point. Whether it’s people who AFK on the turrets, or people Akitteng in the zone in general and preventing people from getting into an appropriate overflow (or non-overflow) to beat the event, or people who intentionally try to sabotage legitimate attempts for some hidden achievement, the devs certainly rolled things back a bit to some of the more poorly-designed aspects of other MMOs.

Don’t know if going back and re-tuning Teq to remove this flaw is necessary, but for the love of god, don’t re-use the turret mechanic in other fights and screw over 100+ people just because two or three went AFK and are lucky enough to not get AE’d. And while you’re at it, I understand wanting to make events challenging and giving them enough HPs to make the timer something to actually worry about, but you need to keep in mind the fact that the zones do have population caps, both the soft cap (people get sent to an overflow but can still join their party in it) and the hard cap (party members can’t join). When events are tuned so that they can’t be beaten below the soft cap and sometimes can’t because of the hard cap, something is seriously wrong.

First of all, thank you for all your effort! I know how you feel!

Nightwander.9638:

Now a question to the community: Are we really like that? Do we really call eachother names, saboteur peoples efforts to beat the games content and ruin the otherwise great atmosfeare in the game for a hidden achievement, that doesn´t even give achievement points?

Sadly, there are alot people that act like this. We have egoistic griefers and people that only complain and have most fun when others suffer. There are people like this. Still, it certainly is not the majority. It is sad that there even are people like this, but we still have to carry on.

Nightwander.9638:

I have my Sunbringer title. I stay after the first kill to beat Teq again even though I will get nothing for my efforts, and I know my fellow commanders on Far Shiverpeaks do the same. We use gold for free buffs for everyone and stay for entire afternoons and evenings often to beat the dragon. And why?

Why is indeed a good question. I have done it alot, too. Not only did I commander throughout the day or organize, but I was that crazy person that made TKS, TSS, THS… (You can’t imagine how much stress/work that was… totally got a burnout ^^) Why do we do those things? I mainly do it to hear/ read a “thank you”. People actually thanking for all your effort. I’m really glad when I hear, that my actions were of use to someone. And if I’m correct it is pretty much the same for you!

Nightwander.9638:

We find the battle fun, and we want to help others to get their achievements and feel the exitement and glory it is to beat Tequatl! We stay so others have a chance!

Please keep on doing that! Thanks for your effort! We need more people doing things like this. If we succeed with this, we may actually have a nice ingame experience without people complaining, griefing or cursing!

Victory.2879:

Ask yourself this: why did Anet put this hidden ‘achievement’ in, if not to make certain players deliberately screw up the event for everyone else, hence adding to it’s ‘difficulty’?

I don’t think so. I think they put it in as a perk, a discovery that some people would get for finding a creative means to counter an attack that can’t be avoided with the normal jumping mechanic of other waves. However, like many of their ideas with good intentions (e.g., champion loot boxes), they did not think through how this would incentivize player behavior. They have previously stated they do not like putting things in game that put the player base at odds with one another, so I imagine that this was also not intended.

I have to wonder about the wisdom of an achievement based on having something happen in an event that creates a desire to have the event fail. I have no problems with achievements like the one where Jormag lands on you, where you’re only harming yourself. If this so-called “hidden achievement” does require the main event to fail, it is yet another way in which the Tequatl event design has suffered from too much, “That would be so cool!” and not enough, “What will this break?”

That’s horrible. I hope you never have to go through this kind of abuse ever again.

It is not because they tried to fail the event for an achievement that is not even on the list and that gives no points or titles, it is because they thought they could be rude like that to commanders that were, well, commanding. That’s your “job” and privilege, to command, and you paid for your blue dorito. If they want to command and make the event fail, they can go pay 100g for their own tag.

Your post is very well worded, sincere, rational and deserves a response.

Nightwander.9638:

And succeed we did! The laser event at least….

And because we succeeded, we the commanders suddenly get called kittens, pathetic and more in mapchat, because, lo and behold, we are organizing the fight and trying to win…..

I’m pretty sure that this type of behavior is reportable – on both counts, both griefing and inflammatory chat. We don’t have any feedback from the game involving what happens to our reports, but it doesn’t hurt to file them.

Nightwander.9638:

Now a question to the community: Are we really like that? Do we really call eachother names, saboteur peoples efforts to beat the games content and ruin the otherwise great atmosfeare in the game for a hidden achievement, that doesn´t even give achievement points?

Unfortunately from what I hear: yes. There is a path on CoF (I think) that I have heard of many players deliberately throwing certain events in order to farm the mobs that spawn.

Nightwander.9638:

I have my Sunbringer title. […] We find the battle fun, and we want to help others to get their achievements and feel the exitement and glory it is to beat Tequatl! We stay so others have a chance! […] What needs to be said in the end though: I realise that most people around me wants to help us beat Teq and do whatever they can, and I haven´t forgotten you!

You are few and far between. Most players desert the fight after getting the title.

Nightwander.9638:

Thank you for reading.

For once, it was a pleasure.

What some of us have been doing in AG is finding empty overflows. That way we can at least control the type of elements that get involved in the fight. It’s sad that we have to do that because of a few achievements designed to fail the event (it’s not only one, e.g. Tail Flail). I feel sorry for the people who are not in our “official” community and who don’t get a chance to be part of the organised overflows.

In the end it would be nice to see the “dishonorably discharged” debuf be used a bit more, specifically one where you let your server down. Evidently ANet seems happy to name-and-shame PvPers in this way, it might make sense as a punishment system for behavior such as this.

They should just delete that pointless achievement.

That is the only achievement I don’t have. While I think it would be neat to get, there is no way I would try and sabotage the event. I don’t even know if that is possible. I have never seen any of the batteries with less than 50% health beforehand.

Unfortunately some people are just jerks out there.

Different scenario but similar experience is whenever I do the champion farming in Queensdale. There is so much arguing and bickering about the order of killing the champions. There is always fights and nasty things said in mapchat. I find it so lame on many different levels. The champions spawn so frequently it doesn’t matter. You have people fighting about who is more selfish between the zerg (about 20+ people) or the 2 or 3 that want to kill them out of order. You can be the judge and that is a different argument for a different time, I guess.

I’m so sorry. I hate that all it takes is six people to ruin this event.

I’m running into this even on my own server – groups derailing an otherwise valiant effort for an achievement that means absolutely nothing or just being total kittens and griefers. We even had someone say they were going to log into their and any other account they could find and dance in the Teq area near the turrets AFK just to tick off everyone and spawn champs to purposely fail the event. Just to watch everyone complain and laugh.

^Trolls that are jealous of our awesome community and want to ruin it.

Let them try. Report and move on.

I agree with Malediktus. There are OCD people who will want to get that achievement (if we can even call it that way) even if it gives nothing.

It shouldn’t even have been added to the game.

I’m sorry that some people have to be a D in the game… :S

I can see both sides here. If you know you can’t win the Teq battle based on the time at which he reaches 75% or 50% then why not go for the achievement. If not everyone agrees then I can see arguing on both sides. The name calling is uncalled for and childish but each side should be allowed to play the game however they want. It was their purchase.

Don’t forget a similar event with a certain Scarlet in it. Once people got their achievements, it became a zerg farming event. Here the roles were switched. The majority of the commanders (and population…including myself) wanted to farm it for aether champ bags, but you would still get a group of people wanting to complete the event. So there would arguements and name calling with that event as well.

In the end it just comes down to play how you want to play, but be civilized about it. Realize that not everyone is going for the same thing as you, and in your case they might have had a good reason. The event was going to fail…yes, no? The tidal wave is cool to see once and there is a unique achievement that goes with it. However, don’t sit by and take any name calling or people IM’ng you with obsenities lightly…report them!

This is ultimately an issue with ArenaNet. The inclusion of achievements that are counter-productive to an overall event is a big mistake, especially on events that require the time and planning that Tequatl does.

I assume the idea was so people would feel some sense of accomplishment in defeat (didn’t beat him, but I got this achievement), but the implementation is horrible.

Holy Whirlwind.2067:

I can see both sides here. If you know you can’t win the Teq battle based on the time at which he reaches 75% or 50% then why not go for the achievement. If not everyone agrees then I can see arguing on both sides. The name calling is uncalled for and childish but each side should be allowed to play the game however they want. It was their purchase.

Don’t forget a similar event with a certain Scarlet in it. Once people got their achievements, it became a zerg farming event. Here the roles were switched. The majority of the commanders (and population…including myself) wanted to farm it for aether champ bags, but you would still get a group of people wanting to complete the event. So there would arguements and name calling with that event as well.

In the end it just comes down to play how you want to play, but be civilized about it. Realize that not everyone is going for the same thing as you, and in your case they might have had a good reason. The event was going to fail…yes, no? The tidal wave is cool to see once and there is a unique achievement that goes with it. However, don’t sit by and take any name calling or people IM’ng you with obsenities lightly…report them!

True, I see your point. Trouble is, we´ve managed to win with less time left (once today in fact) than was left those times, so we´d try an see if we could. If there was 1 minute left and only at 50% then sure! We´d have been going for the achievement, but we still had a chance and we´re optimists xD

I will track them Down, so I can report them though… I won´t stand for name calling!

Thank you for posting the other side too! It´s valuable to know too! ^^

Malediktus.9250:

They should just delete that pointless achievement.

I agree!! I so agree!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Tequatl-Hidden-Achievement/first#post2935820

I also participate regularly in Tequatl battles. As a fellow commander, I understand the amount of work you put in, the sacrifice, the stress, the patience. We appreciate it, we really do. Most of the time I stay for 2-3 more Tequatl kills after the first, even though I won’t get any significant in-game reward, because I know someone needs help, because I want to back up the organized leadership of the event, and to support the community.

You’ve been experiencing one side of humanity, don’t let it get you down. We tend to give in to our negative impulses, but when we get it right, it’s something to see. I’m sure you’ve had several great runs. Just think, that was over 100 people organized, focused & cooperative. You’re doing good work.

As an open world eventi, anyone can do anything as long as it isn’t against the rules.
And unfortunately, not collaborating and working against the completition isn’t against the rules.

Obviously that wouldn’t happen if this was an instanced event, since people may be kicked if they aren’t working toward winning the event…

Manuhell.2759:

As an open world eventi, anyone can do anything as long as it isn’t against the rules.
And unfortunately, not collaborating and working against the completition isn’t against the rules.

http://ncsoft.com/uk/legal/user-agreements/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct.php

Notwithstanding actively sabotaging the event, the OP indicated that abusive comments were used.

This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated.

In terms of the active sabotaging:

While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.

This is open to interpretation in situations like this where both rights are being violated, one that has been seen on the past on these forums is “majority rules” (for example how the ram building trolls were dealt with in WvW). In addition Tequatl is “designed to be defeated,” all the other achievements, while possibly hindering a successful attempt, do not outright require failure (and is likely why this achievement is hidden).

I’m getting tired of “my rights are as important as yours.” The same argument applies to psychopaths – they do the right do what they want – however, we throw them into prison because they are a hindrance/threat to the general populace (a.k.a. the majority).

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/composition-division

Aerlen.5326:

I’m so sorry. I hate that all it takes is six people to ruin this event.

I’m running into this even on my own server – groups derailing an otherwise valiant effort for an achievement that means absolutely nothing or just being total kittens and griefers. We even had someone say they were going to log into their and any other account they could find and dance in the Teq area near the turrets AFK just to tick off everyone and spawn champs to purposely fail the event. Just to watch everyone complain and laugh.

….. Now that is really kittenty behaviour! I am sad to hear we aren´t the only ones having insane trolls running lose. I am an undeniably naive optimist, so had a small futile hope, that we were just unlucky.

May you never end up with people like that Again

Zamalek, thanks for showing quotes of out rights, it´s really useful They will be used!

KehxD.6847:

First of all, thank you for all your effort! I know how you feel!

Nightwander.9638:

Now a question to the community: Are we really like that? Do we really call eachother names, saboteur peoples efforts to beat the games content and ruin the otherwise great atmosfeare in the game for a hidden achievement, that doesn´t even give achievement points?

Sadly, there are alot people that act like this. We have egoistic griefers and people that only complain and have most fun when others suffer. There are people like this. Still, it certainly is not the majority. It is sad that there even are people like this, but we still have to carry on.

Nightwander.9638:

I have my Sunbringer title. I stay after the first kill to beat Teq again even though I will get nothing for my efforts, and I know my fellow commanders on Far Shiverpeaks do the same. We use gold for free buffs for everyone and stay for entire afternoons and evenings often to beat the dragon. And why?

Why is indeed a good question. I have done it alot, too. Not only did I commander throughout the day or organize, but I was that crazy person that made TKS, TSS, THS… (You can’t imagine how much stress/work that was… totally got a burnout ^^) Why do we do those things? I mainly do it to hear/ read a “thank you”. People actually thanking for all your effort. I’m really glad when I hear, that my actions were of use to someone. And if I’m correct it is pretty much the same for you!

Nightwander.9638:

We find the battle fun, and we want to help others to get their achievements and feel the exitement and glory it is to beat Tequatl! We stay so others have a chance!

Please keep on doing that! Thanks for your effort! We need more people doing things like this. If we succeed with this, we may actually have a nice ingame experience without people complaining, griefing or cursing!

This entire post sounds so familiar And thank your for the encouraging Words, they are just what i need That includes everyone else, who is so kind enough to answer, of cause

Winsyrstrife.7149:

I also participate regularly in Tequatl battles. As a fellow commander, I understand the amount of work you put in, the sacrifice, the stress, the patience. We appreciate it, we really do. Most of the time I stay for 2-3 more Tequatl kills after the first, even though I won’t get any significant in-game reward, because I know someone needs help, because I want to back up the organized leadership of the event, and to support the community.

You’ve been experiencing one side of humanity, don’t let it get you down. We tend to give in to our negative impulses, but when we get it right, it’s something to see. I’m sure you’ve had several great runs. Just think, that was over 100 people organized, focused & cooperative. You’re doing good work.

Thank you and continue with your efforts too!

And I have indeed had great runs! In fact to be honest, I am quite a bit selfish in my reasons to continue Tequatl, and that is because I really, really enjoy spending time with my Fellow dragonslayers

Normally, the atmosphere is terrific and I feel really Lucky, that people actually want to listen to me, play with me, talk to me and in between spawns fool around until preperations start with me I get this warm feeling whenever I enter the area and TS, cause I feel welcome

I wouldn´t like that to be ruined, and it won´t! Not as long as I have something to say >:D