Guild Wars 2

+1. that is why i won’t do it again unless in a coordinated guild/server effort.

A coordinated guild or group effort is exactly what this fight is supposed to be now, so…

I agree with Tallybunny. I also learned what to do and have attempted many times on my server to beat this. Every time, at the end of the timer, Teq is still at 70-80%, so ya, not even close. I have only so much time to PLAY this game. I have wasted enough time and silvers on trying to complete this event. I would rather spend that 15 minutes on something where I can at least have a CHANCE at success … maybe a jumping puzzle …. or anything else… anything…. no really…. ANYTHING else.

Hell, that is a realy solid post, the OP did. Very informative, logicaly structured and reasonable.
I think that somebody in Anet should have had such ideas.

How to solve the problem? Make it instanced. That will allow people not to rely on random PUGs on turrets, but on qualified players. This will allow proper scaling and will wipe away a lot of irritation and tension on servers.

Personaly my guild iddQd from Seafarer’s killed him 3 times in a row, but I understand that this is impossible for less organized and smaller communities.

So I hope that ANet will do something about it – in current state hardly anybody will try to kill him in a week or two.

PS. Loot is just silly for such an effort.

I don’t really think this is community damaging. I think a lot of people are venting on the forums and such, but those are a tiny fraction of the playerbase.

That said, I also more or less agree with Tallybunny. Now that I’ve gotten the wings from the meta-achievement, there is no reason for me to go back to this event until getting the boss down to 50-75% is more common (instead of 5-7%). I didn’t enjoy end-game raiding in WoW, and so I don’t have any reason to enjoy it here in open-world GW2. For those that love Nintendo-hard: great! More power (and loot) to you.

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not random chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

Well, if a world boss event isn’t for everyone, if ascended weapons isn’t for casuals, if tribulation mode was just for Pro…and LGF (lol) was for a selected minority of beta testers…WHERE is my living story?

I’d say what’s way more community-damaging are people like the above poster (edit: I meant penguin), and many others, who come to the forums and talk down to people and make rude comments. Every time you read on the forum someone say “this isn’t for you” or “you don’t know how to play” or “you’re doing it wrong” or something to that effect: that’s damaging the community.

(Ironic, given that the reason GW2 is doing well is because LOTS of people play it. If the people who think everyone who isn’t like them should quit, they’d be out of a game rather quickly.)

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Well, if a world boss event isn’t for everyone, if ascended weapons isn’t for casuals, if tribulation mode was just for Pro…and LGF (lol) was for a selected minority of beta testers…WHERE is my living story?

Search for a yellow star in Rata Sum.

I’ve run Tequatl almost all day for two and a half days. It has been very fun. I have gotten no loot worth doing it. What I have gotten is a good time and some more bonds with people from the TC community and some guesters.

I don’t understand why people think that just because they don’t like a challenge means that it is damaging the community. If your community is falling apart after Teq, it isn’t Teq that ruined your community. Your community was already in a bad state, and actually being presented with a hurdle has revealed the cracks that already existed.

Most of the damage done is to people’s entitlement, which is fine by me.

People claim that the game can have content for every kind of player, and now that the content addition this week is for a different player then they themselves are they pout and whine.

I dont enjoy SAB, so I just dont do it. I didnt complain that the update two weeks ago didnt bring anything for me. If you dont enjoy this version of Tequatl then just accept that and leave it to those that enjoy it.

arabeth.2361:

I’d say what’s way more community-damaging are people like the above poster (edit: I meant penguin), and many others, who come to the forums and talk down to people and make rude comments. Every time you read on the forum someone say “this isn’t for you” or “you don’t know how to play” or “you’re doing it wrong” or something to that effect: that’s damaging the community.

(Ironic, given that the reason GW2 is doing well is because LOTS of people play it. If the people who think everyone who isn’t like them should quit, they’d be out of a game rather quickly.)

Talk down? Rude? So people who enjoy challenging content is now rude for wanting it? I’ve said this over and over, there are different types of gamers. Casuals and Hardcore. Skilled and Unskilled. Easy Mode and Hard Mode. Anet has content in this game for all types. If you can’t handle hard content, stick to easier ones. I think it’s more damaging for players to come in and demand that content made for one type of player, be nerfed so another type can enjoy it.

Tequatl is for the Elites because it requires more than just randomly pressing “1” with an random, unorganized mob.

This is what abandoning the routine feels like. It’s not pleasant at first, but you’ll realise it’s better in the long run.

Never have I seen content that brought together the community more since the release of GW2. Last time I checked groups of people banding together to overcome challenges is not damaging to a community. I’ve met alot of people through this event and have seen more communication between guilds and people for pve content than ever before. The shared joy and excitement after finally taking down teq for your server creates lasting memories for the gw2 community, and i’m confident everyone will get to experience as we get better at taking down the beast together.

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That’s wonderful your experience has been great, that you’ve met more people, that it brought your community together.

It’s a jerk move to rub it in the face of everyone else who can’t do it and say it’s because their community just isn’t good enough.

That said, Tequatl is open world content. Open world content should be for everyone, not “the elite”. There are instances and endgame content for the elite. This “elite” would lose exactly nothing if Tequatl was an 80 man raid instance. People would still group together to try and take it down, in particular since there are very few guilds that can actually muster that many people online and organized simultaneously.

And OK, even if not all open world content needs to not be elite – you do realize Tequatl is in a level 60 or so area? Where, reasonably, one would expect people who are level 60 or so to be? As opposed to people who are 80, fully geared, and used to endgame? Sure, level 60 or so exotics exist – does the average player bother with full sets, or just tunnel vision to 80 when it actually matters?

Putting a level 80 elite event in Cursed Shore is one thing. That’s a level 80 area. It’s an endgame area by default. Sure, it’s open world, but it also, by design, assumes you are at least level 80. Tequatl is more ‘elite’ than any endgame content the game has to offer, yet it somehow is… not in an endgame area? If you want this type of boss, why not Jormag, who is in an endgame area (and has the crappiest reward out of all word bosses)?

I can understand defending this type of boss mechanics. Hell, I’m sure I’d have fun in the fight if my server had been able to coordinate. I enjoy this type of content, too. But I just can’t defend such a poorly thought out release. Endgame content has no place in open world areas that are not endgame. There are plenty of good places to put it, and the open world Tequatl fight is not it.

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

Well, if a world boss event isn’t for everyone, if ascended weapons isn’t for casuals, if tribulation mode was just for Pro…and LGF (lol) was for a selected minority of beta testers…WHERE is my living story?

The Tequatl fight isnt part of the living story… None of the achieves for the living story requires the downing of tequatl… They’re all entirely related to finding various things in the area, which can be done regardless of tequatl having been killed or not… Heck some of the stuff isnt even there when tequatl is active… So you already have your living story… Tequatl himself, is an entirely diffrent category, with its own entirely diffrent achieves…

I like mixing endgame and mid-level content together. I like that as a mostly solo player because you can happen across interesting, not every-day fights.

Look past the overflow for just one moment, because the overflow is as big a problem for everyone involved.

In a few months, I as a solo player leveling in Sparkfly Fen can come across an organized group staging for this encounter. I can decide to hang around take part in the encounter, too. That’s GOOD. You wouldnt have that if it was instanced.

Geshque.1326:

Personaly my guild iddQd from Seafarer’s killed him 3 times in a row, but I understand that this is impossible for less organized and smaller communities.

Your guild, or your guild plus a bunch of other people in the server?

Mastruq.2463:

In a few months, I as a solo player leveling in Sparkfly Fen can come across an organized group staging for this encounter. I can decide to hang around take part in the encounter, too. That’s GOOD. You wouldnt have that if it was instanced.

We’ll see. If they nerf him a bit (remove/increase timer or add more turrets), then perhaps. Otherwise, I’ve seen more people say “well, I’ve got my achievements, never doing that again.” I’m inclined to say it’ll be dead in a few months (heck, weeks) if it stays this way, but we’ll see

hmmm… I’m not sure why I have the impression that casual players are acting more and more like a hardcore player but in the reverse side. Aka, hardcore casual players. Players who plays a lot, but ask for easy mode or nerf in pve with AMAZING reward content instead of hardmode content in world pve.

This phenomen seems to only exist in gw2, I have never seen any other mmo where casual players cry to nerf a “hardmode” pve boss, either it’s in a instanced raid or in open world pve. They usually ask for an easier more with a lower reward (You got plenty of them in gw2) but no. It seems you have to have the same exact progression as the player who plays 12hours a day.

I’m a pvper, and rarely pve. But this kind of mentality is really fascinating.
I

Mastruq.2463:

I like mixing endgame and mid-level content together. I like that as a mostly solo player because you can happen across interesting, not every-day fights.

Look past the overflow for just one moment, because the overflow is as big a problem for everyone involved.

In a few months, I as a solo player leveling in Sparkfly Fen can come across an organized group staging for this encounter. I can decide to hang around take part in the encounter, too. That’s GOOD. You wouldnt have that if it was instanced.

Right now, I, as a solo player leveling in Sparkfly Fen, can come across an organized group staging for this encounter. I can decide to hang around and take part in the encounter too by manning one of the turrets. I will spam 1 at mobs for the entire fight because that makes me feel bad-kitten and I don’t know any better, and effectively cut down everybody’s chance of success by a good 1/6th. A few more people like me on the turrets and we’ll have bone walls popping up every few seconds! And that is GOOD.

?

Poplolita.2638:

hmmm… I’m not sure why I have the impression that casual players are acting more and more like a hardcore player but in the reverse side. Aka, hardcore casual players. Players who plays a lot, but ask for easy mode or nerf in pve with AMAZING reward content instead of hardmode content in world pve.

This phenomen seems to only exist in gw2, I have never seen any other mmo where casual players cry to nerf a “hardmode” pve boss, either it’s in a instanced raid or in open world pve. They usually ask for an easier more with a lower reward (You got plenty of them in gw2) but no. It seems you have to have the same exact progression as the player who plays 12hours a day.

I’m a pvper, and rarely pve. But this kind of mentality is really fascinating.
I

Want to know why?

These words:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

Mike O’Brien, the ArenaNet Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto

Emphasis mine.

Thus far, we’ve seen absolutely the opposite in regards to the new Tequatl fight. People spending 10, 12 hours in overflows to get on their home server, hours of preparation to get a defeat on the part of guilds, etc. for open-world content is madness.

If it were an instanced version of the lower-tier Tequatl boss, that’s one thing, and I’d support it wholeheartedly. But this way? Making it an effective roll of the dice? No kitten way.

(but then again, we already threw out the “no grinding treadmill” with the introduction of Ascended items, didn’t we?)

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That’s wonderful your experience has been great, that you’ve met more people, that it brought your community together.

It’s a jerk move to rub it in the face of everyone else who can’t do it and say it’s because their community just isn’t good enough.

That said, Tequatl is open world content. Open world content should be for everyone, not “the elite”. There are instances and endgame content for the elite. This “elite” would lose exactly nothing if Tequatl was an 80 man raid instance. People would still group together to try and take it down, in particular since there are very few guilds that can actually muster that many people online and organized simultaneously.

And OK, even if not all open world content needs to not be elite – you do realize Tequatl is in a level 60 or so area? Where, reasonably, one would expect people who are level 60 or so to be? As opposed to people who are 80, fully geared, and used to endgame? Sure, level 60 or so exotics exist – does the average player bother with full sets, or just tunnel vision to 80 when it actually matters?

Putting a level 80 elite event in Cursed Shore is one thing. That’s a level 80 area. It’s an endgame area by default. Sure, it’s open world, but it also, by design, assumes you are at least level 80. Tequatl is more ‘elite’ than any endgame content the game has to offer, yet it somehow is… not in an endgame area? If you want this type of boss, why not Jormag, who is in an endgame area (and has the crappiest reward out of all word bosses)?

I can understand defending this type of boss mechanics. Hell, I’m sure I’d have fun in the fight if my server had been able to coordinate. I enjoy this type of content, too. But I just can’t defend such a poorly thought out release. Endgame content has no place in areas that are not endgame. There are plenty of good places to put it, and the open world Tequatl fight is not it.

Did you know that if you take your lv 80 to a lower level zone, that your level is adjusted accordingly, so that it remains a challenge?

If there’s Elite Content in a lower level zone, anyone can participate, because this is Open World. Level appropriate players and higher level players can all give it a try. However, if you want to win, that takes skilled players working together.

This is just one side of the medal. It also brought people together who really wanted to do this in a constructive way. It’s toxic in some environments, but very inspiring and fun in others.

I would even argue that everyone is important and if people are failing it is because not everyone or atleast the not the majority is giving their best. This is very frustrating for those that are, hence a lot of anger and toxic behaviour on some servers and overflows. It may feel like you don’t matter to the fight, but you do. Try to do your best and inspire others to do the same.

I agree that a lot of the difficulty is just a logistic difficulty though. The most important thing is to get everyone organized and to inspire everyone to try their best.

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’ve said this over and over, there are different types of gamers. Casuals and Hardcore. Skilled and Unskilled. Easy Mode and Hard Mode. Anet has content in this game for all types. If you can’t handle hard content, stick to easier ones. I think it’s more damaging for players to come in and demand that content made for one type of player, be nerfed so another type can enjoy it.

This strikes me as a false dichotomy. I assume that Anet has to look at the gradient of skill levels and commitment shown by players, then decide what percentage of those players they will design content to please. The inherent assumption that there are two groups who divide cleanly and that decision for design should be made to please one or the other may unintentionally (or intentionally?) increase the community division further.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tequatl is for the Elites because it requires more than just randomly pressing “1” with an random, unorganized mob.

This portion is rude and condescending. It doesn’t help your case. Many players with low hours played/week research builds, acquire good gear, dodge, try to follow strategy, and even occasionally kite. Often they play in small groups or small guilds. I know several people of this exact type. The strawman nature of your argument is what gives it both offensive qualities.

That said, I’m not sure if I want Teq to be changed. It just seems like a paradigm shift for GW2 to include raid-level content in the open world, especially when that same content was easy loot for the majority of players only one week prior. It makes sense that people are frustrated. It makes sense that players who want harder content are pleased.

In general though, if content is only for 5-10% of the playerbase, it should be about 5-10% of what gets released and promoted. It should not be primary headline content, nor should it be the overall direction of the game. The less committed/skilled playerbase will not catch up. They will ignore the content and/or leave the game.

PAX.4160:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I’ve said this over and over, there are different types of gamers. Casuals and Hardcore. Skilled and Unskilled. Easy Mode and Hard Mode. Anet has content in this game for all types. If you can’t handle hard content, stick to easier ones. I think it’s more damaging for players to come in and demand that content made for one type of player, be nerfed so another type can enjoy it.

This strikes me as a false dichotomy. I assume that Anet has to look at the gradient of skill levels and commitment shown by players, then decide what percentage of those players they will design content to please. The inherent assumption that there are two groups who divide cleanly and that decision for design should be made to please one or the other may unintentionally (or intentionally?) increase the community division further.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tequatl is for the Elites because it requires more than just randomly pressing “1” with an random, unorganized mob.

This portion is rude and condescending. It doesn’t help your case. Many players with low hours played/week research builds, acquire good gear, dodge, try to follow strategy, and even occasionally kite. Often they play in small groups or small guilds. I know several people of this exact type. The strawman nature of your argument is what gives it both offensive qualities.

That said, I’m not sure if I want Teq to be changed. It just seems like a paradigm shift for GW2 to include raid-level content in the open world, especially when that same content was easy loot for the majority of players only one week prior. It makes sense that people are frustrated. It makes sense that players who want harder content are pleased.

In general though, if content is only for 5-10% of the playerbase, it should be about 5-10% of what gets released and promoted. It should not be primary headline content, nor should it be the overall direction of the game. The less committed/skilled playerbase will not catch up. They will ignore the content and/or leave the game.

1) Anet has to design content that appeals to different types of players. If they made all Queensdale easy content for the whole game, they’ll lose players. If they made Teq v2.0 for the whole game, they’ll lose players. But if they offer a little bit of this, and a little bit of that, people can find something they enjoy, wherever it is in the skill level spectrum.

2) Teq is Elite level. You can’t just spam “1” to win. You need to have people to coordinate for different parts of the challenge. Defense. Offensive. ADD hunters. But that said, because this is Open World content as well, anyone is free to join, regardless of skill level.

3) You are correct that a portion of the player base is mad, while another is happy. This is because we all have different views of what “fun” is. That goes back to my point #1.

4) One last thing. This content is headlined, but it’s also optional. If the Teq fight isn’t your thing, it’s not the end of the world. I have guidies who ignored this, and stayed in WvW. Since this is also permanent, you can go back whenever to give it a try.

Northern Shiverpeaks here. We haven’t beaten Teq yet but it has inspired some of us to really work at getting our server more organized and working together. We still have a ways to go and there are plenty on our server that have stated NSP will never beat Teq. I like the challenge though.

Time to die Lizard!

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Did you know that if you take your lv 80 to a lower level zone, that your level is adjusted accordingly, so that it remains a challenge?

If there’s Elite Content in a lower level zone, anyone can participate, because this is Open World. Level appropriate players and higher level players can all give it a try. However, if you want to win, that takes skilled players working together.

No. It takes skilled, max level, well geared, coordinated players working together. Try this without any downscaled characters and tell me how it goes.

Gear doesn’t downscale, only level-related stats do. A level 80 with full exotics/ascended level 80 gear will do a lot more damage to a level 60 mob than a level 60 with max tier gear for their level. They’ll also have more HP, absorb more damage, heal more. They’ll also be more likely to have invested in sigils, runes, have all trait points unlocked, and likely every skill they need, too. This can cause stats to double or more even when downscaled.

Tequatl was very obviously not designed with level 60s in level 60 gear with level 60 traits in mind when you have dozens of fully geared 80s and not enough DPS to even get him past phase one. You can see the discrepancy in the old lower level area world bosses, which were designed with the area’s level in mind – at one point, the Great Jungle Wurm was so full of level 80s hacking and slashing at it (when it probably was designed for maybe a group of level 15s) that it would die before its health bar even appeared. Old Tequatl and Shatterer would take 2, 3 minutes to kill. Jormag and temple fights generally took longer because, unsurprisingly, they were designed with level 80s in mind.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not random chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

1) RNG comes from randomly getting an organized server, or a crappy overflow/server.
2) But if you are not apart of a large guild, then it is RNG because finding one of those organized groups, or a server capable of it, is luck based.
3) All players need to perform basic roles. Turrets are BY FAR the most important per player.
4) Failing should reward us with something, because this game is all about time investment. Even a little Karma would be great.
5) That is your opinion. I enjoy a challenge, I don’t enjoy relying on hundreds of other players to be as prepared as I am, or be as good at jumping over waves as me.
6) Living World content isn’t for everyone? Since when? Surely that is not their intention.

Stx.4857:

1) RNG comes from randomly getting an organized server, or a crappy overflow/server.
2) But if you are not apart of a large guild, then it is RNG because finding one of those organized groups, or a server capable of it, is luck based.
3) All players need to perform basic roles. Turrets are BY FAR the most important per player.
4) Failing should reward us with something, because this game is all about time investment. Even a little Karma would be great.
5) That is your opinion. I enjoy a challenge, I don’t enjoy relying on hundreds of other players to be as prepared as I am, or be as good at jumping over waves as me.
6) Living World content isn’t for everyone? Since when? Surely that is not their intention.

1) RNG doesn’t apply. People organizing and planning strategy does. If you need help finding a group or guild to help, the forums have some wonderful people trying to organize the masses.
2) See #1
3) True, Turrets are important, so is defending them, and killing tentacles, etc.
4) You are rewarded with minor chests. True rewards are for winning.
5) Well, different content appeals to different people. I’m sorry you don’t like Teq.
6) Living World is content made for anyone to enjoy. THAT is Anet’s intention. But it’s also optional. None of my guildies who WvW 24/7 are being forced to do any of the newer content. Yet they’re still having fun in this game.

Whooosh.

Perception is a beezy.

Smooth Penguin.5294

Living World is content made for anyone to enjoy.

And Tequatl currently isn’t enjoyable for a large portion of the playerbase due to a host of issues ranging from overflows to trolls, timers and the always popular gear treadmill. All this bad design compounds and critically enrages the community.

You can’t bring certain builds since condition damage is useless because technical limitations, you’ve got to be geared properly, you probably should have a VoIP server ready unless somebody else is willing to provide and so on and on.

Whether you enjoy this event or not it’s undeniable that it has irrevocably damaged this community. Continuing to produce events like this without addressing all the aforementioned issues would be the absolute height of foolishness.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

3) True, Turrets are important, so is defending them, and killing tentacles, etc.

The argument is that turrets are by far the most important single player role. And they are. Any other role can have someone messing up and any number of people to pick up the slack. Which doesn’t mean the other roles aren’t important – but they’re not single player roles. They’re group roles. It takes a big part of the group failing to jeopardize it, whereas it takes just one turret messing up to do the same.

Fungalfoot.7213:

Smooth Penguin.5294

Living World is content made for anyone to enjoy.

And Tequatl currently isn’t enjoyable for a large portion of the playerbase due to a host of issues ranging from overflows to trolls, timers and the always popular gear treadmill. All this bad design compounds and critically enrages the community.

You can’t bring certain builds since condition damage is useless because technical limitations, you’ve got to be geared properly, you probably should have a VoIP server ready unless somebody else is willing to provide and so on and on.

Whether you enjoy this event or not it’s undeniable that it has irrevocably damaged this community. Continuing to produce events like this without addressing all the aforementioned issues would be the absolute height of foolishness.

You can’t program mechanics into a game that prevents bad human nature from ruining it. If someone refuses to play correctly on a Turret, and you find he’s doing it on purpose, report him. Just remember that the Devs said they need solid proof the person is griefing, rather than just being someone who really doesn’t understand what to do.

Also, Overflows exists because servers have a maximum capacity. This is actually a great game design, rather than having a queue timer to get into a map you want. (note – WvW is a different beast)

As for your idea of bad game design based on having the proper gear, are you saying that everyone should have only one type of weapon and armor set? That by removing any type of progression, you fix all these problems?

And finally, Condition Necros are still useful in helping overall. There’s more than a Champion Dragon to fight in this event.

neon.4863:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

So, in other words, nerf him so that the people currently enjoying him CAN’T enjoy him because he is another stupid easy theme park boss that isn’t worth wasting the five minutes it would take to zerg him down?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You can’t program mechanics into a game that prevents bad human nature from ruining it. If someone refuses to play correctly on a Turret, and you find he’s doing it on purpose, report him. Just remember that the Devs said they need solid proof the person is griefing, rather than just being someone who really doesn’t understand what to do.

Also, Overflows exists because servers have a maximum capacity. This is actually a great game design, rather than having a queue timer to get into a map you want. (note – WvW is a different beast)

As for your idea of bad game design based on having the proper gear, are you saying that everyone should have only one type of weapon and armor set? That by removing any type of progression, you fix all these problems?

And finally, Condition Necros are still useful in helping overall. There’s more than a Champion Dragon to fight in this event.

Of course you can design events to minimize the grief potential. I recall somebody in another thread suggesting to have kits which players could pick up and use to buff and cleanse in addition to the turrets albeit less potently and that players would then have to find the perfect balance between that and doing DPS in order to succeed the event. That way some bored troll couldn’t just hog a turret and proceed to kitten it up for everyone else.

And no, sitting in an overflow for hour after hour hoping your main instance will pop isn’t great design. It’s no different from the server queues of old. In fact, I actually prefer the older system since it guarantees me a slot eventually. People couldn’t abuse some join function to buy slots from squatters and steal mine. You can sing praises about this broken system all you want but the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is mighty kitten ed.

My suggestion is simple. Go back to the way Guild Wars did things and remove stats entirely. Remove gear progression and place the emphasis on skill and ingenuity. The hardcore progression crowd is the most self-destructive crowd I know of and I know them very intimately from my own days of raiding. They complain about the existing content posing no challenge while at the same time demanding new tiers of weapons and armors which directly reduces challenge. Listening to them will bring nothing but disaster to this game and once all is said and done they will simply move on the next big thing and continue doing the same thing they always do. It’s a vicious cycle and it’s about time somebody broke it. Guild Wars 2 was supposed to be that game.

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Eirdyne.9843:

Summary:
-There is no reason to go to the Tequatl fight because it is no different than throwing rares into the mystic forge.
- Your chance of success is very truly entirely based upon chance.
- Players are no longer important in the fight or to the fight except those 6 on the cannon.
- The six players on the cannons are responsible for the success or failure of an entire server.
- There is no reward for participating in the event. Tequatl is a fight based around chance. Therefore, to show up to the fight is to show up with a very low rational hope of success.
- People have better things to do with their time.
- This kind of content will generate irrationality, bickering, and a generally negative social climate in your game.
- You did not understand this.

Making incorrect negative assumptions is more damaging. Let me break it down for you.

1) Tequatl fight isn’t RNG, so you can’t compare it to Mystic Forging
2) Chance of success is based on organization and teamwork, not chance.
3) All players are important in this fight. People attacking Teq, people defending the Turrets, people ON the Turrets (who also must know what to do with Turret skills)
4) There are rewards for participating, albeit minor. Why do you want big rewards for failing?
5) People who want/like the challenge are enjoying their time in this fight.
6) This kind of content isn’t for everyone.
7) I hope you understand this list.

Well, if a world boss event isn’t for everyone, if ascended weapons isn’t for casuals, if tribulation mode was just for Pro…and LGF (lol) was for a selected minority of beta testers…WHERE is my living story?

Go talk to Rox. Actually fighting and killing Tequatl has nothing to do with the “story.” Also finish World 2 and go to World 3. That’s some story too.

The Story is separate from the hard stuff for the people who want it. Just like Queens Jubilee was a story, but had nothing to do with the gauntlet. Hard content for people who want hard content, story for people who want story, and never the twain may meet.

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

So, in other words, nerf him so that the people currently enjoying him CAN’T enjoy him because he is another stupid easy theme park boss that isn’t worth wasting the five minutes it would take to zerg him down?

Well now that you put it this way… People currently enjoying him = a hell of a lot less than people currently frustrated by him.

He should have been a raid instance.. so obviously the solution to all this.

Stx.4857:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

So, in other words, nerf him so that the people currently enjoying him CAN’T enjoy him because he is another stupid easy theme park boss that isn’t worth wasting the five minutes it would take to zerg him down?

Well now that you put it this way… People currently enjoying him = a hell of a lot less than people currently frustrated by him.

He should have been a raid instance.. so obviously the solution to all this.

There is no problem with him being what he is. You’re not forced to complete him even if he is open world.

Stx.4857:

He should have been a raid instance.. so obviously the solution to all this.

I don’t even like raiding anymore and I’m a hundred percent behind this. Tequatl is so poorly implemented that he actually makes me long for the instanced raids back in that game which shall not be mentioned. At least then I wouldn’t have to deal with trolls, lag, overflows and all the other bullkitten. I’d still have to cope with the broken stat system and the fact that ArenaNet hasn’t been bothered to fix condition caps a year after launch but sometimes you have to look at the bright side even if you are a huge pessimist.

Oolune.4357:

There is no problem with him being what he is.

Right. Which is why we have a gazillion posts on it.

The idea might have been decent but the implementation sucks.

Oolune.4357:

Stx.4857:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

So, in other words, nerf him so that the people currently enjoying him CAN’T enjoy him because he is another stupid easy theme park boss that isn’t worth wasting the five minutes it would take to zerg him down?

Well now that you put it this way… People currently enjoying him = a hell of a lot less than people currently frustrated by him.

He should have been a raid instance.. so obviously the solution to all this.

There is no problem with him being what he is. You’re not forced to complete him even if he is open world.

I, and many many others see a problem. Making him a raid instance would solve a lot of the issues players have with him. Your solution is for me to just not play the game? You should be a dev!

Smooth Penguin.5294:

You can’t program mechanics into a game that prevents bad human nature from ruining it. If someone refuses to play correctly on a Turret, and you find he’s doing it on purpose, report him. Just remember that the Devs said they need solid proof the person is griefing, rather than just being someone who really doesn’t understand what to do.

Also, Overflows exists because servers have a maximum capacity. This is actually a great game design, rather than having a queue timer to get into a map you want. (note – WvW is a different beast)

As for your idea of bad game design based on having the proper gear, are you saying that everyone should have only one type of weapon and armor set? That by removing any type of progression, you fix all these problems?

And finally, Condition Necros are still useful in helping overall. There’s more than a Champion Dragon to fight in this event.

I want to second the fact that CondiNecros are useful. My server just took down Teq for the first time and Condi’s were obscenely awesome for battery protection. It was also cool to finally see an event where people were begging for more Eles. Ice Bow and Fiery GS were pretty key to us defeating him; Fiery GS is almost OP right after Teq gets hit by the laser

Stx.4857:

I, and many many others see a problem. Making him a raid instance would solve a lot of the issues players have with him. Your solution is for me to just not play the game? You should be a dev!

And by making this instanced, you allow players to dictate who gets to join. That opens the door to higher tier trolling. “You want in? Pay 10 Gold to enter my raid group.” “You broke up with my sister? Shunned for life from my groups.”

With Open World, yes you allow any type of player with any level of skill in. The key part here is that they’re all allowed to participate, without anyone forcing them otherwise.

Do you never read gaming forums? Tons of people see problems with everything in any game. That doesn’t make them right.

How would making it a raid instance solve anything? Out of sight out of mind? You’ll no longer think you NEED to beat him? Or do you think it being instanced would somehow make it easier? And yes, my solution, if you can’t handle a challenge, is for you to not take part in that part of the game. I know people who can’t pvp. What do they do? They don’t enter sPvP. I know people who aren’t comfortable commanding in WvW. So they don’t command. I know people who are terrible at CoE. So they don’t run CoE. I know people who don’t want to farm mats for crafting. So they don’t craft. I know people who can’t do SAB. So they don’t play SAB. They have other things they can do because there is plenty to do in this game.

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

Oolune.4357:

neon.4863:

There’s a certain FYGM mentality in saying “I don’t see why you’re complaining, my experience has been great.”

That goes both ways, and it is coupled with a ridiculous tendency to think anything that you don’t enjoy shouldn’t be there.

Aye. But the chief complaint from me, at least, isn’t that people don’t enjoy it, but rather that people want to enjoy it, but can’t because overflow, underleveled, undergeared, afkers, trolls, not enough server population to organize, guesting taking up spots in organized servers, etc etc. This is great content… if you are able to do it the proper way. Right now, plenty of people who want to, who take their time learning the fight, adjusting, listening, can’t, due to limitations that are well beyond their control. Even rallying people on your server to organize only works when there’s enough of an interested population for it.

So, in other words, nerf him so that the people currently enjoying him CAN’T enjoy him because he is another stupid easy theme park boss that isn’t worth wasting the five minutes it would take to zerg him down?

No.

A nerf would partially solve the problem, sure. But it would, as you say, make people who are currently enjoying him unable to. And it would make people who want to enjoy him the way he is now (but can’t because of this and that) unable to, too.

The solution is to leave the encounter mechanics nearly exactly as they are, and fix ‘this and that’. AKA take measures to ensure people who want to participate in the content the way it’s meant to be played are able to, without trivializing it.

Examples:

- Instance it, so that big organized groups don’t need to camp the map to be all in one place, and so that guesting becomes a non-issue, and anyone from any server can cooperate without kicking anyone else to overflow.

- If instances are a problem, at least take steps to mitigate overflow problems. Make it an open world area, but separate from the Sparkfly Fen map, so that someone across the map doing map completion can’t take up a spot that could be used by someone wanting to do the event. Have the AFK kick be stricter for the area with the boss.

- Have an in-game tool for coordination at such a massive level. As it is, the only way is to make a new guild. Having some way to form “parties” or just groups with a private chat channel for this level of organization within the game would be cool.

- Redesign the turrets so that they still have the same level of importance strategy-wise, but that this responsibility is less focused on individual players manning the turrets, so that a group of trolls can’t just waltz in and ruin the entire strategy for everyone. This can be done in a few ways, but it would need some thinking/tweaking to keep the experience close to what it is.

- Adjust scaling so that lower population servers don’t have the same minimum number of players required as higher population servers. Tie the minimum to number of players online, if needed. Increase as usual if more people than the minimum show up. This would effectively allow servers that can barely get 30 people to show up to do the fight, while still scaling it in case more people show up. Tweaking and balancing would be necessary to ensure the exact same amount of skill is necessary with 30 people as with 80 people, so the fight would still play the same, and there’d be no advantage/disadvantage in numbers. Have an absolute minimum of say, 25-30 players, if you must – as long as the number isn’t completely daunting to lower population servers, they should still be able to manage. This would also help mitigate overflow problems caused by guesting.

There would still be some issues while it’s shiny and new, of course, but it could at least help others enjoy the content without ruining the enjoyment of those currently able to do it, too. Nerfing is not the only way to make content accessible to a larger number of players.

I mean, I’m sure some people would complain anyway because, again, FYGM mentality of being able to do something others can’t. But any reasonable person should want everyone who likes this type of content to be able to participate in it and enjoy it as is, and everyone who does not like it and does not want to be in it to be able to freely do their own thing (consider Sparkfly Fen is part of the open world, and people have every right to be there to level or do map completion, too) and it’s not what’s happening.

Just read around the forums, the majority of the issues players have with this patch would be solved if it were put in a raid instance.

1) AFKers
2) Trolls
3) Leeches
4) Randomness
5) Overflow servers
6) Guesting

There are more issues, but those are the main ones. A raid that can be done with 30-40 people solves all of these, unless you pug it, but even if you do pug the raid, most of those issues are solved.

Telling me I can just go play a different part of the game is about as useful as me telling you to sit on corn.

neon.4863:

But any reasonable person should want everyone who likes this type of content to be able to participate in it and enjoy it as is, and everyone who does not like it and does not want to be in it to be able to freely do their own thing (consider Sparkfly Fen is part of the open world, and people have every right to be there to level or do map completion, too) and it’s not what’s happening.

Instancing it gets rid of all the benefit to the community. It also brings up the probable necessity to reduce the amount of people required.

As for people doing their own thing… Of course they are able to. They can do zone completion in an overflow just as well as the main, and they can do what they need to in the main if they get in there as well. What does that even have to do with this?

Stx.4857:

Words that don’t matter

Ok.