Guild Wars 2

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let me answer your questions:

1) Only one server, out of all servers, was able to beat Teq on the first day. Don’t see how you think this makes the content easy since it was beaten.
2) BlackGate is full of really really REALLY good players. Really.
3) Having a map full of people does not guarantee a win. See point #1.
4) If you want to generalize the content in those terms, I could say that beating Tequatl requires you to turn on your computer, log in, play, and win. There’s more to winning than your four steps, and I know you understand it.

Ok, so let’s say I have an active guild of 500 people, I post a message of the day about Tequatl, 100 of them show up, I read a guide 1 time, make sure that all members join on TS, we fail first two times, because people fail on the turrets and we still have not weeded out all randoms, we beat it third time. Was it difficult? No. Now you may say, that running an active guild IS difficult and I will not disagree on that, but it has nothing to do with the fight itself. You either have resources at your disposal or you do not, there isn’t really that much space for skill as the only requirement is to DPS as fast as possible.

Seveleniumus.5973:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Let me answer your questions:

1) Only one server, out of all servers, was able to beat Teq on the first day. Don’t see how you think this makes the content easy since it was beaten.
2) BlackGate is full of really really REALLY good players. Really.
3) Having a map full of people does not guarantee a win. See point #1.
4) If you want to generalize the content in those terms, I could say that beating Tequatl requires you to turn on your computer, log in, play, and win. There’s more to winning than your four steps, and I know you understand it.

Ok, so let’s say I have an active guild of 500 people, I post a message of the day about Tequatl, 100 of them show up, I read a guide 1 time, make sure that all members join on TS, we fail first two times, because people fail on the turrets and we still have not weeded out all randoms, we beat it third time. Was it difficult? No. Now you may say, that running an active guild IS difficult and I will not disagree on that, but it has nothing to do with the fight itself. You either have resources at your disposal or you do not, there isn’t really that much space for skill as the only requirement is to DPS as fast as possible.

And if it wasn’t difficult, you wouldn’t have failed in the first place.

Did you know that there are rumors of players being able to go through SAB Tribulation Mode without dying once?

The real reason they would’ve lost is because they didn’t get rid of the pugs, not because the fight takes any skill.

sirflamesword.3896:

Seveleniumus.5973:

Exactly, that’s why beating Tequatl doesn’t make you a better player. liar

We aren’t ever going to change their minds, because for once in this game they can feel “elite”.

I am elite because I followz teh plan

Tequatl is difficult in the organizational skills required to beat it.

Tequatl is not difficult in the individual skill required to beat it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tequatl is difficult in the organizational skills required to beat it.

Tequatl is not difficult in the individual skill required to beat it.

FYI – The sum of the individuals and their skill determine the outcome. On BG last nite, we had a full map, 6 Commanders, and 90+ people on TS. Laid out our strategy, and yet this group only got Teq down to 50%.

So yes, individual skill is as important as teamwork.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tequatl is difficult in the organizational skills required to beat it.

Tequatl is not difficult in the individual skill required to beat it.

FYI – The sum of the individuals and their skill determine the outcome. On BG last nite, we had a full map, 6 Commanders, and 90+ people on TS. Laid out our strategy, and yet this group only got Teq down to 50%.

So yes, individual skill is as important as teamwork.

Most of the jobs at Tequatl are for skill spamming. Yes, there are turret men and a few turret protectors, but almost everyone’s job is to spam DPS at Teq while standing at a single spot. That does not require individual skill.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tequatl is difficult in the organizational skills required to beat it.

Tequatl is not difficult in the individual skill required to beat it.

FYI – The sum of the individuals and their skill determine the outcome. On BG last nite, we had a full map, 6 Commanders, and 90+ people on TS. Laid out our strategy, and yet this group only got Teq down to 50%.

So yes, individual skill is as important as teamwork.

Most of the jobs at Tequatl are for skill spamming. Yes, there are turret men and a few turret protectors, but almost everyone’s job is to spam DPS at Teq while standing at a single spot. That does not require individual skill.

We never had more than 7 stacks of Scale defense on Teq, and never lost a Turret (Flawless), and yet only got to 50%. So are you suggesting that BG failed at skill spamming?

What you need is everyone following orders, and not wasting time by lying flat on their face through most of the battle. So far there have been three things that lost us the battle:

• Not enough players
• Players not respawning at the waypoint when they die
• Bad people on the turrets

Really, those turrets are key.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What you need is everyone following orders, and not wasting time by lying flat on their face through most of the battle. So far there have been three things that lost us the battle:

• Not enough players
• Players not respawning at the waypoint when they die
• Bad people on the turrets

Really, those turrets are key.

I agree Turret gunners are vital. But in my example from last nite, we did have good people on Turrets. We just weren’t good enough up front. And then the point being it still takes skill, and not mindless spamming.

Oh I hear ya. We failed a couple of times because either we didn’t have enough people at the front (two teams of around 30+ players is a good idea), or because they were dying too much. Having one of the DPS teams wipe entirely is one of the worst things that can happen during the fight. Sometimes this happens when the team gets hit by overlapping poison puddles, and the turrets are unable to cleanse it immediately. And other times player are just wasting time.

You really want players to be where they need to be, right down to the second. Voice communication is key in this.

There should be a title for the players who successfully organize this event, “Cat-Herder.”

I think there is an imbalance in Teq. WHAT that imbalance is is anyone’s argument. Personally, I have issues with the numbers problem. On my server (Henge of Denravi), we only get the REQUIRED number of people for a successful ATTEMPT in evenings and/or weekends.

Is this a problem? Well…. yes and no. Yes, because Teq spawns more than just at those peak times. I personally feel if he’s set up to spawn that many times a day he should at least scale to the average number of players on the game at that given time, but that’s just me personally. It rather feels a pointless waste to have something spawn at noon Eastern, look at the 30 people around you, and know you have absolutely no chance. However, it’s not really a problem if you look at the big picture, where MOST people are going to be going after Teq at peak times, and thus he needs to scale high enough to be a challenge to the zerg mobs that used to flatten him in literally seconds flat.

So my personal opinion is this: Is Teq hard? Define hard. Is he doable with a mid-to-large size pug group with average organization (which for most people at this point in time is if it moves kill it, preferably while following a commander, read chat randomly, and listen to strategies as long as it’s convenient for you)? Not a chance in hell. So yes, it’s hard. But is this the fault of Teq or our current in-game player culture?

Is Teq imbalanced? Probably, but I think it’s also unfair to balance him only to the current average player’s expectations, and not to raise the bar and challenge us all with harder content. I do chafe at the fact that Teq only feels doable at this moment if you rely on giant guilds with the resources to communicate with enormous amounts of people at once, when I have no desire to be in a guild that large myself. As a mostly solo/small group player, I feel very unneeded in this event because of my lack of an ability to effectively communicate, and feel like I’m doing any good to the whole since I don’t represent a zerg.

Either way, my opinion boils down to this: We asked for new, tougher content. Just because we got what we all asked for in a package we weren’t expecting (or to some people expecting it to be handed to us), we have no right to complain. However, I do feel the pain of many people feeling that Teq is impossible, and I do worry that as the newness of this update with Teq wears off, the issue with getting enough people to make killing him possible will become more and more of an issue on top of the problem is already seems to be. But that’s just my personal opinion.

Logistics is a skill.
Effective Communication is a skill.
Learning when to use Skill X or Y is a skill (for guardians).
Leadership is a must
Ability to listen is a must.

Their is skill involved just not the skills you expect

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Oh I hear ya. We failed a couple of times because either we didn’t have enough people at the front (two teams of around 30+ players is a good idea), or because they were dying too much. Having one of the DPS teams wipe entirely is one of the worst things that can happen during the fight. Sometimes this happens when the team gets hit by overlapping poison puddles, and the turrets are unable to cleanse it immediately. And other times player are just wasting time.

You really want players to be where they need to be, right down to the second. Voice communication is key in this.

Umm… Overlapping poison puddles, isnt a problem even if turrets dont cleanse immediately. If a puddle lands on top of the group, the group MOVES. The turrets cleanse is so that the group have somewhere to move later on, not so the DPS ball can stand still like a braindead zombie…

Honestly this is one of the most absurd posts I’ve seen. If this were true, that means high populated servers (and essentially any overflow that has a lot of people) would beat him 100% of the time. That’s certainly not true since Blackgate spent over 9 hours on their first day learning, practicing, and planning how they could be able to take him down. Heck, Blackgate still fails sometimes.

don’t you have to have big guilds and parties and such to go from the SOFT map cap to the HARD map cap?

better coordinated servers actually can bring more people to a teq fight…

That does not require individual skill.

jumping waves & sticking with your group while maximizing your damage does require skill. I haven’t been at a Tequatl event where I couldn’t have done better, so clearly skill is involved.

The difficulty of this event does not really derive from individual player skill.

It comes from design. It’s designed in a way that makes griefing possible, and puts players against players.

The turrents are too important, yet there’s only a few, and it’s very easy to get someone using them to pick their noses or kill ambient creatures or something, ruining the game for all the other players.
There’s no way to kick them from there, and even if there was, the process would be too slow anyways. In the time people agrees to kick a griefer from the turrent, or even let them die attacked by risen, the battle is lost.

This event puts players against players and allows griefing in a way hard to judge, since the guy in the turrent could simply ignore what to do and have local chat disabled. So you can’t have any proof of them being griefing.

That should NEVER happen in PvE, EVER.

As a quick and dirty fix, the turret should get manned by NPCs. Or get replaced by supply boxes that players can use to grab rifles with skills like in the Claw of Jormag.

I’d weigh in on the “waiting for Rez” debate…. but first I’d actually had to have died :p

…I STILL don’t understand how so many people manage to die in this thing. Are they all level 50’s or something?? Someone should point out to them that the level of that section of the zone is darn near 70, lol.

Organizing people and getting them to listen is a skill (Cat herding FTW).
Being able to take direction while at the same time not needing your hand held through the whole event is a skill.
Using strategy to plan out how to deal with an encounter is a skill.
Knowing what build works best for your role is a skill.
Motivating peers and keeping your cool when everything is going to heck is a skill.
Working under pressure is a skill.
Learning to dodge those waves and react quickly is a skill.
Learning how the event works and how you and the others around you should best react is a skill.

If you think the only things that are actual skills worth having pride in are split second I Want To Be The Guy type platform jumps and attacks, then I pity you. Even in the golden era of video games, there were titles that required different skill sets to beat or play. Are you going to tell someone who beats Final Fantasy that they are unskilled because all they had to do was press a button, read and use strategy?

The only elitist I see here is you.

Tequatl is a great way for bad players to feel and show online pride for beating something that required zero skill to do. Let’s see how many of these prideful beasts would act if they were told to solo Lupicus or even if they were asked how they’d perform on Liadri with a glass canon build.

I never saw so much pride in gw2 before from players for doing something that gave zero evidence of their own personal skill. Hiding behind the zerg doesn’t say anything about you. And yet here they are, flooding reddit etc with their pride for “beating” a boss that’s basically all about dpsing him hard in a zerg while dodging a couple times movements with extreme tells that people still fail to get.

Nikaido.3457:

Tequatl is a great way for bad players to feel and show online pride for beating something that required zero skill to do. Let’s see how many of these prideful beasts would act if they were told to solo Lupicus or even if they were asked how they’d perform on Liadri with a glass canon build.

I never saw so much pride in gw2 before from players for doing something that gave zero evidence of their own personal skill. Hiding behind the zerg doesn’t say anything about you. And yet here they are, flooding reddit etc with their pride for “beating” a boss that’s basically all about dpsing him hard in a zerg while dodging a couple times movements with extreme tells that people still fail to get.

“The only skills that are actual skills worth being proud of are the ones I say are skills and that I have.”

Fixed your post for you.

Seveleniumus.5973:

I’m not necessarily complaining about this type of content, though it’s not really my cup of tea, I’m only annoyed by “omg I beat Tequatl, I must be the best player ever now” attitude.

I haven’t seen anyone like that. People who have beat him are generally surprised at how easy it was. You know, I didn’t do anything different in my success attempt as my fail attempts. I defended the same spot, with the same strategy. (Go to spawn, keep them away from the turrets.) The difference was there were other people fighting with me instead of, well, screwing everything up. It was a lot easier with 10-20 people who were more or less on the same page than it was trying to do it alone. (Kill the adds alone, pull them back from the turrets when other people pulled them into the turrets. Alone.) Which is most likely the whole point of this content. They want to put the guild back into Guild Wars.

Other than this one fight, having a guild is pretty much pointless. I’ve joined a few, the only one that was active enough to bother with made TS mandatory at all times when in game and I had to quit.

I’m willing to bet that same people who are crying over Tequati cried over Liadri too.
Always excuses. Bad camera, high ping, lags and whatnot. Of course.

Nick.6972:

I’m willing to bet that same people who are crying over Tequati cried over Liadri too.
Always excuses. Bad camera, high ping, lags and whatnot. Of course.

I wasn’t playing the game when this Liadri was available… was it also an open world encounter that relied on 150 players working together?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

…
And if it wasn’t difficult, you wouldn’t have failed in the first place.
…

The Eternal Grace.3157:

… If this were true, that means high populated servers (and essentially any overflow that has a lot of people) would beat him 100% of the time….

You both ignore that people make errors. You equate “Failure” with “Difficulty” and that is wrong. Daily grownup people fail at climbing stairs, does that make climbing stairs difficult? No, it means they made a mistake.

High population servers don’t always beat Tequatl because of mistakes some people do. That doesn’t imply that the content is difficult.

Why are people so bothered with words?

Let’s face it that Teq isn’t easy to defeat.

Why? Becouse of many reasons and we can’t realy pinpoint the true reason yet.

I beleave the Turrets are the reason becouse that is where I beleave you have to have knowlage of what to do, so you don’t just shoot skill 1 all the time.
I have seen on every fight I have been on that there have always been someone spamming skill 1 or maby 2.

I can immagine that people not ressing and people not using WP is a big issue to, everything has to be done the right way, if a full group dies they all have to WP but if a single player or two gets downed it be best to ress him/her.

Also people who are bad at dodging puddles and waves also ruins it.

So in the end it all has to work for the event to be succesfull and that is hard to achieve without Voice and good leaders and people who listens.

Again in my opinion no MMO-world content should be made to have TS, Mumble or whatever to be succesfull, and I don’t see any hopes on this event being interesting for enough players once this LS has ended.

Difficult or not, Teq requires to much from to many and in the end many will give up trying.
I think Anet has a tough cookie to chew here, to make the metas hard enough to not be easely farmed but also not to hard to be fun enough to be repeated.

It doesn’t require too much if you’re talking about the actual “Staying Alive” part.

The level of difficulty there is just about perfect and it’s no where near the split second timing required to stay alive versus Liadri or Lupicus or higher level Fractals bosses.

The waves of enemies on the Turrets isn’t that bad either, infact they’re really easy when compared to how ridiculous things can scale up on the Warmaster Chan escort (which some of us beat every night despite that).

The mobility required in using the Jump pads for instance…. and also jumping the Poison Ripples during a “Lag Storm” might be a little challenging at first and require an adjustment period. But even that can be overcome in time by no-so-good / easily-confused players.

The only problem here, is that it’s still a “DPS check” and we already had a TON OF THOSE in PvE endgame. And a lot of the ones we already have, are still more fun than this crap is. This crap is “trying”, but it’s not difficult. It’s trying, because you’re watching a server full of people with bad specs, crappy Non-Ascended gear, bad DPS support utility choices (OR NONE AT ALL), sluggish or non-existant “performance” on turrets, and they’re even worse at support Positioning

….Basically, the kind of people who’d allow everyone else to get Petrified against Simin (Path 4’s DPS-check boss) while taking 30 seconds per spark pull.

The Event itself is almost perfect…. except for this Timer and Massive HitPoint pool which can’t be affected AT ALL by individual “exceptionalism” like most other DPS checks in this game and even other “Raid Content” in a lot of other games. ….Basically, just like WvW: There’s needs to be more ways for smaller elite teams to contribute more and greatly accelerate the speed at which that massive HP bar starts going down

Just don’t nerf Tequatl! On the contrary….give us more content like this !
It gathers a server population together…Some people said that our server can’t achieve anything…well no ! It takes some time to get down the boss, but we think all together on a strategy, and we were 100+ people on TS. All guilds together was pretty amazing, I loved it
That’s what I call a real game !

Fun and community building by posting at each other over who’s really skilled or not.

Since I don’t have the skill ‘Patience To Wait Hours In Overflow To Get To TC Sparkfly’, I guess this content isn’t for me. Oh well.