Guild Wars 2

You make a super-hard open world event that requires coordination of upwards of 100 people with:
– little-no downward scaling
– no accurate timers for the event
– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people
– a low population cap such that people are likely to be placed into overflow
– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players
– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Liadri the Imbalanced, Stupor Annoying Box, Tequatl Sucking… it’s clear the development team needs more time than they have to produce quality content.

ArenaNet needs to pull back on the reins and slow down the rate of releases until they can reliably produce quality content.

So, basically because you can’t do something it is garbage?

– little-no downward scaling

This is intended. It is supposed to be an event for a large group. It is after all less than 1% of the game that requires that amount of players, so I don’t really see the issue. It is also something that people have wanted since release.

– no accurate timers for the event

Which is a good thing. You are not supposed to set an alarm clock to just log in and do something. That would be silly, it also makes the world very static and boring.

– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people

Of course it does. It works well enough in chat if you are fast enough at writing and have discussed the fight before the Dragon arrives.

– a low population cap such that people are likely to be placed into overflow

True, but it is quite clearly also possible to complete it in overflow, as this has been done several times. A higher population cap would probably hurt the fight more than help, since it would increase lag and such.

– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

Quite incorrect. Sure they remove the buff and such (removing poison and buffs people) but the vast majority of damage is done by the zerg. Both are needed and technically it would probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets, if your group did enough damage and were fast enough.

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

Typical response from a PR guy.
I wouldn’t say it’s rubbish but I would like an answer to these questions:
-why to develop content that requires a large number of players when there are known performance issues, low fps and skill lag? (the answer will be: no such thing or is my faulty pc).
-what are the in-game communication tools as long as after writing 2-3 lines in map chat your message is suppressed ? [the answer could be: write in ( huge, newly formed for the sole purpose of carrying out a single task) guild chat]. And try an overflow in Europe, where are 4 official languages, even more in map chat.
- why to waste time in overflows doing nothing, with no chance of completing the event unless you are lucky enough that overflow to be filled by a ( huge, newly formed for the sole purpose of carrying out a single task) guild? A timer will makes the world very static and boring? Im so bored to death in this overflow so i came here, writing stupid things on forum.
- maybe I’m wrong, but how the front team can survive and do dps there without turrets cleansing, as long as the fingers poison or whatever it is cant be removed by any of player skills? Don’t underestimate the role of the turrets. “…probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets” I laughed at this.
And a personal issue… many were written on this forum about the bad visibility of aoe circles, the worst in water and impossible to be seen by the color blinded people. Nothing changed. I begin to feel discriminated.
No comment about prizes, I dont care so much about ascended weapons, it is much better to make a Legendary.

Thedenofsin.7340:

You make a super-hard open world event

I Quit Reading After this.

QQ

Thedenofsin.7340:

You make a super-hard open world event that requires coordination of upwards of 100 people with:

Uh.. ya? So? Why shouldn’t there be large group content that isn’t stupidly easy?

Honestly, I’m so sick of people crying over this. ANET threw us a challenge, and the people who stepped up accepted it.

The rest can go back to nap time.

lordkrall.7241:

– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

Quite incorrect. Sure they remove the buff and such (removing poison and buffs people) but the vast majority of damage is done by the zerg. Both are needed and technically it would probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets, if your group did enough damage and were fast enough.

I’m not agreeing with the OP although once I get the achievements done I’ll probably not do Teq again [unless it’s changed somehow or with guild or something]…but what!?

I challenge you to gather 100 people to kill Tequatl without using the turrets. They cleanse poisons, they do massive damage during stun phase, they keep bone-wall from popping up…

If ONE bone-wall pops up that means you are either going to fail or you’re going to cut it extremely close. The turrets are needed because of the way the event is setup. I’d honestly be more comfortable with a mechanic similar to the Karka Queen in which you can throw the Karka eggs at her to drop her “Armored” buff. TTS has killed Teq many times with players that have a variety of skill-levels and I am quite certain that the turrets are necessary unless you can somehow gather 70-100 hardcore players that know exactly what they are doing.

Thedenofsin.7340:

- a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

Unfortunately, a lot of people who fail this event a lot tend to blame the Turret gunners. But that is incorrect. You need all players in the fight to understand their tasks. This is a team fight. If Turrets fail, you all fail. If defenders fail, you all fail. If the main attacking group fails, you all fail.

I’m sorry you’re unable to complete the fight. I’m sure with time and practice, your server can pull it off. This is permanent content, so there’s no real rush.

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

lordkrall.7241:

So, basically because you can’t do something it is garbage?

– little-no downward scaling

This is intended. It is supposed to be an event for a large group. It is after all less than 1% of the game that requires that amount of players, so I don’t really see the issue. It is also something that people have wanted since release.

– no accurate timers for the event

Which is a good thing. You are not supposed to set an alarm clock to just log in and do something. That would be silly, it also makes the world very static and boring.

– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people

Of course it does. It works well enough in chat if you are fast enough at writing and have discussed the fight before the Dragon arrives.

– a low population cap such that people are likely to be placed into overflow

True, but it is quite clearly also possible to complete it in overflow, as this has been done several times. A higher population cap would probably hurt the fight more than help, since it would increase lag and such.

– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

Quite incorrect. Sure they remove the buff and such (removing poison and buffs people) but the vast majority of damage is done by the zerg. Both are needed and technically it would probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets, if your group did enough damage and were fast enough.

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

I like the encounter and all, but that post goes beyond your usual fanboi into straight shill territory. Do you work for Ayzenberg or a similar company by chance?

kRiza krimos.1637:

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

Oh , I dunno. Possibly every 25 man ( heroic or not ) in WoW. Kil-Jaeden especially. Don’t even get me started on VanillaWoW with 40 man raids.

Guild Wars 2 Tequatl fight is still a joke in comparison to End Game raids in WoW. ( Though I did quit before Cata, so maybe they’re all as easy as you seem to think they are.

Mastruq.2463:

I like the encounter and all, but that post goes beyond your usual fanboi into straight shill territory.

Thinking the same thing…

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

Well to begin, you don’t stand still in raid fights in other games. Sure theres the odd tank n spank fight every now and then but there are plenty of mechanics you must adhere to. Standing in a zergball while the only people who matter in the fight are on the turrets is not really that strategic. Like I said, this fight is basically just logistics.

Healers do a lot more than just heal..they provide cushion, they have to manage their cooldowns approprietely, they have to try to predict spikes in damage….they have to cleanse and purge DoTs and Debuffs…all while managing their resources like mana at the same time. So if you think they are just sitting still spamming 1 button, you are far from reality.

I mean I guess I can start spitting off every fight that requires skill and teamwork to get down in other games if you want…SoO just released that has a lot of great bosses in there if you want to look.

Also about the size of the area of the fight…Tequatl zone really isn’t big in comparison. Sure its a world boss, but it’s not like he is flying around or anything he stays still the entire time you fight him minus the intermissions. It’s not really that different..unless for some odd reason you are considering the entirety of sparkfly fen to be the battle? Because that wouldn’t make sense since you are fighting in only a very small portion of that map.

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

It took months to kill some bosses in wow for the first time while Tequila was killed within 24 hours since it’s release.

Do you even mmo?

anabasis.7346:

It took months to kill some bosses in wow for the first time while Tequila was killed within 24 hours since it’s release.

Do you even mmo?

Wouldn’t that be because they had to kill 10 other bosses 500 times before they could even try the other bosses?

Tequatl is a bit like Unfair Mario. Not hard, not difficult, just annoying because it is made that way.

Mastruq.2463:

I like the encounter and all, but that post goes beyond your usual fanboi into straight shill territory. Do you work for Ayzenberg or a similar company by chance?

Indeed. That poster is a straight-up shill.

The Tequatl encounter is not properly designed for GW2. If you design an encounter for upwards of 100 players, then the encounter:
– should be relatively grief-proof – i.e. a small minority should not be able to destroy your chances of winning
– should require little to no communication, or, alternatively, the game needs to have mechanics to support efficient communication for 100 people
– should scale down for overflows. If you design the encounter for 100 and your server can only handle 130-150 players, then the overflow encounter should scale well down to 30-50 players

lordkrall.7241:

anabasis.7346:

It took months to kill some bosses in wow for the first time while Tequila was killed within 24 hours since it’s release.

Do you even mmo?

Wouldn’t that be because they had to kill 10 other bosses 500 times before they could even try the other bosses?

No. It was because they were so ridiculously overpowered that even the hardcore raid guilds weren’t unable to beat them until they got neferd.

A) Agree that ‘overflow’ in Europe is a waste of effort – will not be fooled again – ‘Overflow’ —> ‘Bail-Out’.

B) You should not need a livesteam from ARN to explain the encounter!!!! If need be, provide an in book summary after the first few days. One of the things I hated about WoW was that the key to raids was ‘reading-up’, and almost nothing else. Where exactly is the fun in that?

C) There did seem to be a good bit of unnecessary ‘grief design’, giving that the rewards were not exactly ‘epic’.

D) AFKers. You reward them but didn’t reward at all those that tried repeatedly and failed – not even with EXP!. Way to go. No surprise what will happen on the next new boss encounter you design.

E) There were technical issues with porting to the area when the encounter had just started up, the overflow often didn’t work, and the server disconnected the character. (Maybe the AFKers were disconnected characters? – no idea).

F) If you provide characters with ways of removing DoTSs- don’t effectively disable them via a ‘turret-only’ mechanism. It’s cheating.

G) IF there is no scaling – there didn’t seem to be any – don’t allow the encounter to start till a sufficient number is present. Otherwise you’re just wasted people’s time and effort.

So yes the encounter can be Wowed, but that is not why people play the game – or at least I hope it never comes to that.

So, basically because you can’t do something it is garbage?

– little-no downward scaling

~~~This is intended. It is supposed to be an event for a large group. It is after all less than 1% of the game that requires that amount of players, so I don’t really see the issue. It is also something that people have wanted since release.

And what happens after the event, it’s “the hot thing” right now, but what about when nightmare rolls around and everyone’s got their sunbringer chieves? Ill be farming loot from the other, less unbalanced bosses or doing the new living story content.

– no accurate timers for the event

~~Which is a good thing. You are not supposed to set an alarm clock to just log in and do something. That would be silly, it also makes the world very static and boring.

It’s not if you’re NOT looking to get stuck in an overflow or not wanting to sit on your kitten for 45 minutes hoping he spawns in that window before work…

– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people

~~Of course it does. It works well enough in chat if you are fast enough at writing and have discussed the fight before the Dragon arrives.

Because while i’m on defense team. Or zerg team jumping puddles and making sure i’m stacked i’m definitely busy eye-humping chat for that little tidbit.

– a low population cap such that people are likely to be placed into overflow

~~True, but it is quite clearly also possible to complete it in overflow, as this has been done several times. A higher population cap would probably hurt the fight more than help, since it would increase lag and such.

Possible but insanely time consuming. Why when all my servers teamspeak crew is on the home server and I got chucked in with a bunch of people who don’t know up from down? Since you know, my coordinated server is locked out.

– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

~~Quite incorrect. Sure they remove the buff and such (removing poison and buffs people) but the vast majority of damage is done by the zerg. Both are needed and technically it would probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets, if your group did enough damage and were fast enough.

Not with finger’s poison spam. Protip, they can throw more poison then dissipates on timer. Where is my raid going to stand when the entire half of teq’s poisoned up. I suppose we can throw our melee under the bus and tell everyone "Range him cause we have no turrets to drop stacks, buff the raid, clear the football-field hike of a fear or remove poison.

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

~~Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

Oh most definitely… THE FIRST TIME. But why should I do it a second time? Should I pop into that raid for those greens and blues that I can get off orr mobs in half the time with half the frustration?

anabasis.7346:

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

It took months to kill some bosses in wow for the first time while Tequila was killed within 24 hours since it’s release.

Do you even mmo?

You’re comparing a game with 0 gated progression with a game that is built around raid lockouts and gear progression.

Do you even MMO?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Thedenofsin.7340:

- a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players

Unfortunately, a lot of people who fail this event a lot tend to blame the Turret gunners. But that is incorrect. You need all players in the fight to understand their tasks. This is a team fight. If Turrets fail, you all fail. If defenders fail, you all fail. If the main attacking group fails, you all fail.

I’m sorry you’re unable to complete the fight. I’m sure with time and practice, your server can pull it off. This is permanent content, so there’s no real rush.

QFT

The success depends all 3 teams doing their job properly and support one another.

Zerg fails, mob rush to turrets —> defenders fail —> turrets fail —> zerg fails.

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

Well to begin, you don’t stand still in raid fights in other games. Sure theres the odd tank n spank fight every now and then but there are plenty of mechanics you must adhere to. Standing in a zergball while the only people who matter in the fight are on the turrets is not really that strategic. Like I said, this fight is basically just logistics.

Healers do a lot more than just heal..they provide cushion, they have to manage their cooldowns approprietely, they have to try to predict spikes in damage….they have to cleanse and purge DoTs and Debuffs…all while managing their resources like mana at the same time. So if you think they are just sitting still spamming 1 button, you are far from reality.

I mean I guess I can start spitting off every fight that requires skill and teamwork to get down in other games if you want…SoO just released that has a lot of great bosses in there if you want to look.

Also about the size of the area of the fight…Tequatl zone really isn’t big in comparison. Sure its a world boss, but it’s not like he is flying around or anything he stays still the entire time you fight him minus the intermissions. It’s not really that different..unless for some odd reason you are considering the entirety of sparkfly fen to be the battle? Because that wouldn’t make sense since you are fighting in only a very small portion of that map.

So many words and nothing really said. You havent even answered question i repeated twice.
Yes healers manage their cooldowns and cleanse dot-s, guess what, in gw2 everbody has to cleanse dot-s and manage their cooldowns. They dont have to predict anything, since they already know what rotation boss has and what big attack they can use. Plenty of dmg spikes on teq too.
Tequatl is static, but area in which battle is going on is much bigger than any other raid ive see. Maybe there is some raid with boss that is flying around bigger area than this, which i havent seen. I count into encounter area battery locations, since groups need to be able to reach up there.
So once again, if its not insane dmg numbers which you can’t survive without t12 legendary gear, what makes other games raids hard?

Moonelectric.9648:

anabasis.7346:

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

It took months to kill some bosses in wow for the first time while Tequila was killed within 24 hours since it’s release.

Do you even mmo?

You’re comparing a game with 0 gated progression with a game that is built around raid lockouts and gear progression.

Do you even MMO?

Do you even read what I was quoting?

lordkrall.7241:

– little-no downward scaling
[..]It is also something that people have wanted since release.

How many? The 5 most voicily complaining percent?

For the rest of us the GW2 world has only gotten smaller by this patch, since it has lost a world boss. Should they continue “revamping” bosses like that?

I doubt it is a good idea to do so. Adding a new boss is ok, it may get ignored like the karka queen but it is not taking something away.

lordkrall.7241:

So, basically because you can’t do something it is garbage?

– no accurate timers for the event

Which is a good thing. You are not supposed to set an alarm clock to just log in and do something. That would be silly, it also makes the world very static and boring.

– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people

Of course it does. It works well enough in chat if you are fast enough at writing and have discussed the fight before the Dragon arrives.

The rest being talked by devs, not true or just kinda off topic, these 2 are actually quite the massive wall in small server coordination, no matter the skill of the individuals.

I didn’t say it was garbage, disappointing is more accurate.

The content is impressive, but it is not hard to see it becoming a very large tombstone within weeks. Is the game so impressive it can afford this?

GW2 does have a particular problem with low-pop servers and it’s novel content spamming mechanism – which I must admit rises it above other similar games. Maybe the new LFG tool will help, but frankly I would like a ‘Hot Zone’ list added as well giving the nature of the PvE design.

I don’t see why having the top three most popular PvE zones being on display, would ‘break’ the game. It’s a minor thing which would jack up the enjoyment for some people, and would cost a lot less than the Teq-Boss-Design.

Fact is there is a lot of content people will never ever see in this game, purely because of lack of casual numbers. This was understandable in GW1 giving it’s design, but why drag it over to GW2?

kRiza krimos.1637:

So many words and nothing really said. You havent even answered question i repeated twice.
Yes healers manage their cooldowns and cleanse dot-s, guess what, in gw2 everbody has to cleanse dot-s and manage their cooldowns. They dont have to predict anything, since they already know what rotation boss has and what big attack they can use. Plenty of dmg spikes on teq too.
Tequatl is static, but area in which battle is going on is much bigger than any other raid ive see. Maybe there is some raid with boss that is flying around bigger area than this, which i havent seen. I count into encounter area battery locations, since groups need to be able to reach up there.
So once again, if its not insane dmg numbers which you can’t survive without t12 legendary gear, what makes other games raids hard?

Really? It’s mechanics that make raids hard. You can’t just have DMG with no sense of what you’re doing. Are you that dense? go look up fights…here’s a few: Lich King, Dark Animus, Horridon, Tortos, Iron Quon, Lei Shen, Durumu, Immerseus, Sha of Pride, General Nazgrim, Malkorok, Garrosh Hellscream, Kalakras, Immerseus, …..the list goes on for months so have fun looking up each and every fight that requires strategy to overcome HARD raid mechanics. Also, if you don’t think that they don’t have to predict anything then you haven’t played the games…it’s as simple as that. Predicting damage spikes is very important as a healer and even though the fights have phases it doesn’t mean the moves are not randomized, and certainly the damage people are enduring/going to endure is not something you can predict right? For instance on Lord Marrowgar you knew people were going to be bone spiked, but you didn’t know who so you had to predict and pre-hot, bubble, etc. But yea, you’re right…those other games have such huge raid followings because there is no challenge…haha, please.

Tequatl’s health bar was drastically increased and a timer was put in to make some kind of artificial difficulty. The mechanics? Jump the wave…or dodge the wave…Protect the Turrets….Turrets cleanse area…. not hard at all. The only thing hard about Tequatl is LOGISTICS.

I’m starting to think you don’t know what logistics means so I’ll put it this way, getting the group together and in a vent service and on the same map is the hardest part about the fight..not the actual fight.

And even including where the turrets and and beams are located the area is still relatively small. It’s a static fight….a dragon who doesn’t move.

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

dcypher.2590:

lordkrall.7241:

– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Depends on how you see it.
I would say downing something as strong as this is reward enough. You also have a change for several quite rare and cool items.

The boss isn’t strong…as far as mechanics go Tequatl isn’t even remotely hard. The only thing challenging about Tequatl is logistics…..Raids in other games? Hard. This game? Well I guess it’s kind of hard getting everyone on the same map.

I would like to hear what is hard about raids in other games? I will go ahead and asume its healer keeping tank healthy while dps-ers macro their rotation, right? What is hard about standing in place and pressing heal skill over and over while tank stands there and soak up?
On other hand, Tequatl fight requires each individual to be on top of its game, dodging and hitting, while it also demands high organisation and strategy, and takes fight to a much larger area than any raid ive ever seen in other games i played.
So i think tequatl has better mechanics thn raids in other games, and is more casual friendly gear-wise…and again, what is hard about raids in other games?

Well to begin, you don’t stand still in raid fights in other games. Sure theres the odd tank n spank fight every now and then but there are plenty of mechanics you must adhere to. Standing in a zergball while the only people who matter in the fight are on the turrets is not really that strategic. Like I said, this fight is basically just logistics.

Healers do a lot more than just heal..they provide cushion, they have to manage their cooldowns approprietely, they have to try to predict spikes in damage….they have to cleanse and purge DoTs and Debuffs…all while managing their resources like mana at the same time. So if you think they are just sitting still spamming 1 button, you are far from reality.

I mean I guess I can start spitting off every fight that requires skill and teamwork to get down in other games if you want…SoO just released that has a lot of great bosses in there if you want to look.

Also about the size of the area of the fight…Tequatl zone really isn’t big in comparison. Sure its a world boss, but it’s not like he is flying around or anything he stays still the entire time you fight him minus the intermissions. It’s not really that different..unless for some odd reason you are considering the entirety of sparkfly fen to be the battle? Because that wouldn’t make sense since you are fighting in only a very small portion of that map.

So many words and nothing really said. You havent even answered question i repeated twice.
Yes healers manage their cooldowns and cleanse dot-s, guess what, in gw2 everbody has to cleanse dot-s and manage their cooldowns. They dont have to predict anything, since they already know what rotation boss has and what big attack they can use. Plenty of dmg spikes on teq too.
Tequatl is static, but area in which battle is going on is much bigger than any other raid ive see. Maybe there is some raid with boss that is flying around bigger area than this, which i havent seen. I count into encounter area battery locations, since groups need to be able to reach up there.
So once again, if its not insane dmg numbers which you can’t survive without t12 legendary gear, what makes other games raids hard?

For the love of God, you are ignorant. Go WATCH a 25 man raid (to make things easier, search 25 man Lich King pre-level cap increase, then search 25man Heroic and weep). ~~ Scratch that the most popular vids are about people soloing him with the level cap increase. So I’ll post a few links of attempts and successes from when he WAS the END GAME.

Raids in wow REQUIRED the proper gear, proper resistances to elements, being in certain spots at certain times. It was demanding as in one DPS ( yea dps ), could wipe a whole raid if he over aggro-ed the boss. Which was ridiculously easy on good Shadow Priests and Rogues for God knows how long.

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

So many words and nothing really said. You havent even answered question i repeated twice.
Yes healers manage their cooldowns and cleanse dot-s, guess what, in gw2 everbody has to cleanse dot-s and manage their cooldowns. They dont have to predict anything, since they already know what rotation boss has and what big attack they can use. Plenty of dmg spikes on teq too.
Tequatl is static, but area in which battle is going on is much bigger than any other raid ive see. Maybe there is some raid with boss that is flying around bigger area than this, which i havent seen. I count into encounter area battery locations, since groups need to be able to reach up there.
So once again, if its not insane dmg numbers which you can’t survive without t12 legendary gear, what makes other games raids hard?

Really? It’s mechanics that make raids hard. You can’t just have DMG with no sense of what you’re doing. Are you that dense? go look up fights…here’s a few: Lich King, Dark Animus, Horridon, Tortos, Iron Quon, Lei Shen, Durumu, Immerseus, Sha of Pride, General Nazgrim, Malkorok, Garrosh Hellscream, Kalakras, Immerseus, …..the list goes on for months so have fun looking up each and every fight that requires strategy to overcome HARD raid mechanics. Also, if you don’t think that they don’t have to predict anything then you haven’t played the games…it’s as simple as that. Predicting damage spikes is very important as a healer and even though the fights have phases it doesn’t mean the moves are not randomized, and certainly the damage people are enduring/going to endure is not something you can predict right? For instance on Lord Marrowgar you knew people were going to be bone spiked, but you didn’t know who so you had to predict and pre-hot, bubble, etc. But yea, you’re right…those other games have such huge raid followings because there is no challenge…haha, please.

Tequatl’s health bar was drastically increased and a timer was put in to make some kind of artificial difficulty. The mechanics? Jump the wave…or dodge the wave…Protect the Turrets….Turrets cleanse area…. not hard at all. The only thing hard about Tequatl is LOGISTICS.

I’m starting to think you don’t know what logistics means so I’ll put it this way, getting the group together and in a vent service and on the same map is the hardest part about the fight..not the actual fight.

And even including where the turrets and and beams are located the area is still relatively small. It’s a static fight….a dragon who doesn’t move.

This are those epic raids you talk about? Great mechanics? Tequatl encounter area is small right, well Lich King raid is really complex and on huge battlefield as we can see…

All i see is numbers game, 0 positioning and tactics, big scale strategy? yea sure… If you like those raids where numbers attack you from all sides of screen enjoy them, in my opinion tequatl is alot more complex than main raid of wotkl expansion, alot more coordination, tactics and strategy included.
I think were done with this discussion.

Do you think at all before you speak? I mean honestly, every single raid encounter in WoW ( spare a few loot pinatas/ loot reavers ) have one shot mechanics in place. Some with several people being targeted at once all at the same time, which in that case would have to have Bubbles on them to take all about 5% of their health in a split second and then be healed to full again within in 2 seconds before another 90% spike hit them.

Then lets talk about the ’ 0 positioning tactics", your honestly blind or to dense to realize most videos posted will be of successes not failures. Voids, ooze puddles, unbalanced experiments etc… all rapid death/instant kill location attacks. That can be avoid IF the person realizes he is targeted and moves away within 1-2 seconds (failure to do this in some encounters didn’t just kill you, it killed everyone around you) so you could have a 2 second gap in train of thought and instantly be responsible for wiping your entire guild.

Size of the battlefield, I would have LOVED to have fought Lich King in a bigger area. Would have made it so much easier. The small battlefields is what makes it HARD not easy. There are plenty of raids in which a debuff is placed on people that envelopes the area around them in fire or voids. This is easily dealt with by moving away from the area right? Well sure so long as your doing the rest of the fight right, if your dps isn’t good enough or aggro is lost and the boss moves, suddenly fire is where sitting where you need to be sitting. Suddenly the battlefield is getting smaller and smaller.

kRiza krimos.1637:

tequatl is alot more complex than main raid of wotkl expansion, alot more coordination, tactics and strategy included..

I’m sorry, but that may be the funniest thing I’ve heard in months. I think all we have cleared up is that you are in no way qualified to compare the two. It’s apparent you have no experience in a real raid and that obviously leaves you biased. Tequatl is probably one of the most basic encounters I’ve ever seen..the artificial difficulty created by a time limit and a gigantic health pool does not make the contest any more complex.

ITS ALSO VERY HILARIOUS that you posted level 90 players going through ICC instead of any footage of when it was actually relevant… LOL Nice try, though… couldn’t prove your point without getting footage of people farming him 2 expansions later right? Thought so.

Also, the Garrosh video you posted isn’t even of the raid..it’s of the Alliance attacking Ogrimmar .. PvP…So…yea…you failed yet again, on both videos…/facepalm

Well that escalated quickly.

Thedenofsin.7340:

You make a super-hard open world event that requires coordination of upwards of 100 people with:
– little-no downward scaling
– no accurate timers for the event
– no in-game mechanisms to allow coordination of 100 people
– a low population cap such that people are likely to be placed into overflow
– a mechanism such that the overall success of said group hinges primarily on 6 players
– rewards which are disproportionately low for the effort required to succeed

Liadri the Imbalanced, Stupor Annoying Box, Tequatl Sucking… it’s clear the development team needs more time than they have to produce quality content.

ArenaNet needs to pull back on the reins and slow down the rate of releases until they can reliably produce quality content.

Teq has some obvious design issues, and tribulation mode breaking its own rules to add artificial difficulty, but liadri wasn’t really imbalanced from my memory. Be careful not to equate difficulty with poor design.

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

tequatl is alot more complex than main raid of wotkl expansion, alot more coordination, tactics and strategy included..

I’m sorry, but that may be the funniest thing I’ve heard in months. I think all we have cleared up is that you are in no way qualified to compare the two. It’s apparent you have no experience in a real raid and that obviously leaves you biased. Tequatl is probably one of the most basic encounters I’ve ever seen..the artificial difficulty created by a time limit and a gigantic health pool does not make the contest any more complex.

ITS ALSO VERY HILARIOUS that you posted level 90 players going through ICC instead of any footage of when it was actually relevant… LOL Nice try, though… couldn’t prove your point without getting footage of people farming him 2 expansions later right? Thought so.

Also, the Garrosh video you posted isn’t even of the raid..it’s of the Alliance attacking Ogrimmar .. PvP…So…yea…you failed yet again, on both videos…/facepalm

Since all your examples were probably wow raids I looked up some and posted videos to show you what ive seen. And i’ve seen booring old trinity numbers game, one guy watching health bars and others trying to put some dmg, nothing glorious or epic. It looks ridicoulous, but never played or cared for WoW so…
But when i look at those raid vids and teq vid, i see alot more things happening at teq, alot more people taking care for alot more things within encounter, that is what i consider complexity. Seeing Lich King doing same 3 things in tight circle is really what i call raid well done, but i guess afterwards you get nice t12 pink carrot.
I did however played raids like Baium, Antharas, Lilith, and while still not as near engaging as tequatl its at least not static screen with numbers flying all around like your wow raids.
Its beyond me why wow fanboys always potentiate wow raids when there are sea of raids done better and more fun in other games…oh yea, is “dense” new popular term in world of wowcraft?

Tequatl has all the elements of traditional raid bosses and then some. That “and then some” is the problem. The timing of the encounter, the technical limitations, and the shear group size needed makes tequatl feel less refined if you have a traditional raiding past. Tequatl is also not more difficult than most WoW bosses. He is maybe entry tier difficulty but encounters like Teq are a good and fun direction to go if proper considerations are made. Teq needs to be a learning experience for his designers. Most players will sacrifice immersion for better mechanics/play.

Asudementio.8526:

Tequatl has all the elements of traditional raid bosses and then some. That “and then some” is the problem. The timing of the encounter, the technical limitations, and the shear group size needed makes tequatl feel less refined if you have a traditional raiding past. Tequatl is also not more difficult than most WoW bosses. He is maybe entry tier difficulty but encounters like Teq are a good and fun direction to go if proper considerations are made. Teq needs to be a learning experience for his designers. Most players will sacrifice immersion for better mechanics/play.

I never said difficult, but more complex, as in, it takes more groups oriented on different things beside boss. Also, from what i’ve seen difficulty in wow comes from one shot mechanics, and i tough there was consensus that one shot mechanics are bad and should be moved away from.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Asudementio.8526:

Tequatl has all the elements of traditional raid bosses and then some. That “and then some” is the problem. The timing of the encounter, the technical limitations, and the shear group size needed makes tequatl feel less refined if you have a traditional raiding past. Tequatl is also not more difficult than most WoW bosses. He is maybe entry tier difficulty but encounters like Teq are a good and fun direction to go if proper considerations are made. Teq needs to be a learning experience for his designers. Most players will sacrifice immersion for better mechanics/play.

I never said difficult, but more complex, as in, it takes more groups oriented on different things beside boss. Also, from what i’ve seen difficulty in wow comes from one shot mechanics, and i tough there was consensus that one shot mechanics are bad and should be moved away from.

I was speaking generally about the difficulty, not in direct response. I will say though that complexity adds to difficulty but something can be difficult and simple. Also “difficulty in wow comes from one shot mechanics” is an inaccurate statement- i would refrain from it unless you have had ample experience; a lot of difficulty in WoW is resource management.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Since all your examples were probably wow raids I looked up some and posted videos to show you what ive seen. And i’ve seen booring old trinity numbers game, one guy watching health bars and others trying to put some dmg, nothing glorious or epic. It looks ridicoulous, but never played or cared for WoW so…
But when i look at those raid vids and teq vid, i see alot more things happening at teq, alot more people taking care for alot more things within encounter, that is what i consider complexity. Seeing Lich King doing same 3 things in tight circle is really what i call raid well done, but i guess afterwards you get nice t12 pink carrot.
I did however played raids like Baium, Antharas, Lilith, and while still not as near engaging as tequatl its at least not static screen with numbers flying all around like your wow raids.
Its beyond me why wow fanboys always potentiate wow raids when there are sea of raids done better and more fun in other games…oh yea, is “dense” new popular term in world of wowcraft?

Huh? So because you weren’t able to prove anything, you are just going to lie and say that people just stand there and watch bars the entire fight…cool. There’s only one fanboy in this conversation who can’t be objective and that’s you. Sorry to burst your bubble.

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Since all your examples were probably wow raids I looked up some and posted videos to show you what ive seen. And i’ve seen booring old trinity numbers game, one guy watching health bars and others trying to put some dmg, nothing glorious or epic. It looks ridicoulous, but never played or cared for WoW so…
But when i look at those raid vids and teq vid, i see alot more things happening at teq, alot more people taking care for alot more things within encounter, that is what i consider complexity. Seeing Lich King doing same 3 things in tight circle is really what i call raid well done, but i guess afterwards you get nice t12 pink carrot.
I did however played raids like Baium, Antharas, Lilith, and while still not as near engaging as tequatl its at least not static screen with numbers flying all around like your wow raids.
Its beyond me why wow fanboys always potentiate wow raids when there are sea of raids done better and more fun in other games…oh yea, is “dense” new popular term in world of wowcraft?

Huh? So because you weren’t able to prove anything, you are just going to lie and say that people just stand there and watch bars the entire fight…cool. There’s only one fanboy in this conversation who can’t be objective and that’s you. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Too much Ad hominem and i had my share of angry teenagers.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Too much Ad hominem and i had my share of angry teenagers.

Ok…now you resort to assuming I’m a teenager. That definitely shows how mature you are. You presented a question… I answered it, multiple times with multiple examples… you then showed your extreme bias by ignoring all of that and posting video footage that were out of context to purposefully try to downplay the raids. Even a third party came in and pointed out your ignorance… now you resort to calling your opposition teenagers in an attempt to attack credibility. Ad hominem? Haha! You just defined it.

dcypher.2590:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Too much Ad hominem and i had my share of angry teenagers.

Ok…now you resort to assuming I’m a teenager. That definitely shows how mature you are. You presented a question… I answered it, multiple times with multiple examples… you then showed your extreme bias by ignoring all of that and posting video footage that were out of context to purposefully try to downplay the raids. Even a third party came in and pointed out your ignorance… now you resort to calling your opposition teenagers in an attempt to attack credibility. Ad hominem? Haha! You just defined it.

You dont have to be teenager, but you sure act like one.

I dont have to prove anything, this isnt courtouse. Also, your zealous praising of raids in world of kidcraft speaks alot. Along with your insults and personal attacks, while not really providing even answer on my simple question, but instead naming 20 raid boss names shows your comprehension skills and ability to discuss reasonably.
I dont have to downplay wow raids, they are pathetic way to keep daddys wallet 15$ lighter every month. Enough said.
I suggest you pull your head out of your screen, see some Sun my dear mature person. Peace.

kRiza krimos.1637:

You dont have to be teenager, but you sure act like one.

I dont have to prove anything, this isnt courtouse. Also, your zealous praising of raids in world of kidcraft speaks alot. Along with your insults and personal attacks, while not really providing even answer on my simple question, but instead naming 20 raid boss names shows your comprehension skills and ability to discuss reasonably.
I dont have to downplay wow raids, they are pathetic way to keep daddys wallet 15$ lighter every month. Enough said.
I suggest you pull your head out of your screen, see some Sun my dear mature person. Peace.

Yea…sure. Tell yourself whatever you have to. I named plenty of different bosses. World of kidcraft? Yea, you aren’t biased. Now you just come off as a blind fanboy. Does it hurt that there is more than 1 game in the world? QQ more about it. Whether you like it or not, WoW does raiding well. Swtor even does raiding somewhat well. GW2 is now trying their hand at raiding..and they are not doing it well mostly because their infrastructure doesn’t support it.

The only one who hasn’t been able to discuss anything reasonably is you. This entire paragraph shows exactly why you are biased and can’t view anything objectively, but sure… keep thumbing your nose and telling yourself whatever you need to.

Manu.6078:

Typical response from a PR guy.
I wouldn’t say it’s rubbish but I would like an answer to these questions:
-why to develop content that requires a large number of players when there are known performance issues, low fps and skill lag? (the answer will be: no such thing or is my faulty pc).
-what are the in-game communication tools as long as after writing 2-3 lines in map chat your message is suppressed ? [the answer could be: write in ( huge, newly formed for the sole purpose of carrying out a single task) guild chat]. And try an overflow in Europe, where are 4 official languages, even more in map chat.
- why to waste time in overflows doing nothing, with no chance of completing the event unless you are lucky enough that overflow to be filled by a ( huge, newly formed for the sole purpose of carrying out a single task) guild? A timer will makes the world very static and boring? Im so bored to death in this overflow so i came here, writing stupid things on forum.
- maybe I’m wrong, but how the front team can survive and do dps there without turrets cleansing, as long as the fingers poison or whatever it is cant be removed by any of player skills? Don’t underestimate the role of the turrets. “…probably be possible to complete it without using the turrets” I laughed at this.
And a personal issue… many were written on this forum about the bad visibility of aoe circles, the worst in water and impossible to be seen by the color blinded people. Nothing changed. I begin to feel discriminated.
No comment about prizes, I dont care so much about ascended weapons, it is much better to make a Legendary.

1. If every piece of content was designed around allowing for lag and performance issues, we would get a very watered down and boring game. IE, the Jungle Worm.

2. The overflow is a technical issue. The feature was actually designed to let you ‘skip’ waiting queues, so the alternative is to let the first x number of people into Spark Fen, then basically block out everyone else, which is worse.

3. This is quite a personal thing but I don’t really see the point of making a communication feature for stuff like this when there’s stuff like Teamspeak around which will always do it better. It isn’t hard to pop into a TS server, and most large servers have one.

Also, you may not like the prizes but other people do.