With the implementation of genuinely difficult content, the neglect of condition builds has hit a breaking point. The Tequatl fight perfectly signifies this in two major ways:
1. Bleed cap is hit almost instantly. I am lucky if I can sustain one or two bleeds throughout the fight.
2. The fingers are completely immune to conditions.
Even against the adds, bleeds are usually close to capped or capped. Admittedly, condition builds do perform better on adds than they do on Tequatl and fingers, but the problem is the same discrimination doesn’t apply to power builds in reverse (i.e., power builds aren’t strong against Tequatl and fingers but weak against other adds).
This just can’t stand anymore. An entire build archetype is effectively useless on world bosses. There is simply no way the bleed cap and content that’s designed for 80 players can coexist.
Biggest problem with the game for me by far. I hate how this game handles conditions. It honestly feels like Anet doesn’t even acknowledge their existence. It’s ridiculous.
Every World Boss should just start the fight with a full stack of every condition, that persists through the fight, and does no damage to speak of. At least that way we won’t feel like we’re doing something useful.
This is killing build variety for high-end PvE content. You could go with CDmg and be useless in some situations, or you can just zerk and not worry. At least make it so a part of the CDmg you would’ve dealt is dealt directly to PvE mobs when the stacks are full.
This is killing build variety for high-end PvE content. You could go with CDmg and be useless in some situations, or you can just zerk and not worry. At least make it so a part of the CDmg you would’ve dealt is dealt directly to PvE mobs when the stacks are full.
Honestly, if they were concerned with “build variety,” they wouldn’t keep curb-stomping Rangers every single time we find some way to be marginally useful.
What makes this so frustrating is they said they were looking into this a year ago.
I can understand how raising the bleed cap is a huge technical problem, but it’s beyond me why objects are completely immune to conditions — or crits, for that matter.
Best way I can see this working out (without raising the condition cap) is if the boss reaches a full stack of a particular condition, all the conditions of that type are removed, and ~80-85% of the damage that would have been done is instead done instantly.
Conditions are supposed to be DoT in exchange for slightly higher damage/other utility. By making it into burst damage, you reduce it to make it a bad idea to go over 25 stacks unless you can continuously reapply them. Keeps conditions balanced for pvp, makes them fair in pve.
-1-800-GUILD-WAR? They can’t have my ’Brand… I have special eyes.
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-My Dragonbrand!
Rather than removing the conditions of that type I think it would be better if every condition over the cap was converted into direct damage that scales based off condition damage. That way the sustained condition damage would still be there and the condition builds would still get the proper amount of damage done to the target.
Example:
25 stacks of bleed
You apply a bleed that does 1000 damage over 10 seconds (for ease of math). Instead of doing zero damage due to the cap you will convert it to a certain percentage that scales off condition damage, say 50% + 2% per 100 condition damage. This means that with 2000 condition damage your 1000 damage over 10 second bleed would end up doing 50% + 40% = 90% of the damage or 900 damage. Obviously these numbers will need to be tested for balance before being implemented into live.
As for objects in the world the only thing I can say is realism be kitten ed. We absolutely need bleed, poison, burn, and torment to work on objects that are thus far immune to conditions. Condition classes are completely and utterly useless against these objects and it really ruins the build in many areas and it needs to be changed.
I agree, though it’s not just conditions. Any build that relies on crits for different effect procs is also completely useless because of the way they treat bosses like objects instead of enemies.
Too bad most condition builds are also good crit proc builds. Absolutely no point in attacking Teq. I know those builds can help on adds, but they shouldn’t be forced to (especially since you want most people attacking Teq).
Rather than removing the conditions of that type I think it would be better if every condition over the cap was converted into direct damage that scales based off condition damage.
Probably the best idea. Some classes may hit the 25 stacks cap alone sometimes, so a burst damage of all that’s left seems kind of bad for general PvE (aka weaker mobs would get downed in two seconds). But if they can’t get raise the bleed cap, which seems weird since some other MMO don’t have problems about that but who am I to tell, then atleast do something like that. Conditions builds are a HUGE part of DD builds, you have multiple traits and stats related to it, making it useless shouldn’t be alright.
Besides I don’t get why conditions don’t work on structures neither. Alright a bleeding door is stupid, but it makes the game more balanced so who would care ? And don’t tell me we do’nt care cause it’s PvE, it’s extremely frustrating to take 20 seconds to destroy something that is destroyed in three secondes by a powerbuild (well perhaps not 20 but you get my point), and it also affects WvW.
Dear Santa,
For christmas I’d like to get a crossbow for my characters.
With love, a cute kitty.
Well ranger pets have been garbage since day 1, they will address this with the october 17th class changes (hopefully)
They wanted conditions to work like warlocks in WoW, except they are budget constricted and the overall design code for having the server read data for every condition for every second for every character makes a heavy load.
If anything just leave conditions to necros, although they apparently have a good power build now. It doesnt make sense to stack condition damage, if 80% of your damage is AA.
Simple fix for bleeding stack limitation is when it goes over 25 stacks, pop the shortest bleed off the stack and convert it to immediate direct damage.
That keeps the load on the server the same, and keeps the practical impact of bleeds as damage over time the same in nearly any conceivable fight.
Burning and poison could also be made viable damage sources by allowing them create additional stacks once a duration cap has been reached. For example, once a target has over thirty seconds of burning on it, a second stack of burning is started, and the original is allowed to burn down to zero. If you fill up a fifth stack of burning, the first stack, the shortest one, is popped off as direct damage.
It’s really a darn shame that not only can’t condition builds contribute much to Tequatl himself, they also can’t affect the fingers.
Players have the choice of either keeping two gear sets, power and condition, and switching to power in all the situations where condition is near useless… or just focusing on a power spec and not needing twice the amount of gear.
Blackgate = Warrior/guard wvw meta melee train. That’s the only reason they’ve beaten Tequatl, they dont have an army of condition appliers, so their dps is CRAZELY more effective against Tequatl. Another proof how stupid this tequatl is and how discriminating. Tequatl has been tested by Jon Peters, the heavy armor biased Anet Dev. Sorry to say it this blunt but it’s the truth. Play purely condition builds for once, and try tequatl, mr dev, I urge you to do so. You will fail… Miserably. And yet conditions are one of the best sustained damages in the game, they ignore armor wich tequatl has alot. They should be at least an equal weapon against him as the melee strikes.
Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.
Seeing as there’s that silly 25 max bleeding stack on Tequatl (How can this not be redesigned yet?) I decided I might want to defend turrets instead. Well who’d have thought, there are fingers there that are immune to conditions. PvE is so biased it’s not even funny.
It’s really a darn shame that not only can’t condition builds contribute much to Tequatl himself, they also can’t affect the fingers.
Players have the choice of either keeping two gear sets, power and condition, and switching to power in all the situations where condition is near useless… or just focusing on a power spec and not needing twice the amount of gear.
Shame we can’t save off builds and convert gear when out of combat…..
It seems odd to me that so many other game developers can design a DoT system that is not egregiously broken in PvE, but ANet cannot. Condition damage is considered OP in sPvP. This tells me that ANet is more likely to nerf it than fix it.
I like that once it hits 25 stacks, deals it in direct dmg to reset bleed stacks. I’d rather it stick to DoT theme though and add a stack of a new buff that does that direct damage over 30 sec or something and stacks to 25.
Idk! Im not a dev. They should have thought of something a loooong time ago :/
One build does not rule them all. If you want to be effective against world bosses, then you’re going to need to switch off of your jack-of-all-trades spray-and-pray condition build.
Either that, or gear up with runes of Mercy so you can rez the people who understand that you can’t drop bosses by spamming conditions. This isn’t PVP.
Why is anyone still even running condition builds in PvE? Direct damage is superior in virtually every way.
I’m not saying “Stop whining!”. I’m saying keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed. But for god’s sake, change to direct damage so you aren’t so useless until Anet does finally fix this.
One build does not rule them all. If you want to be effective against world bosses, then you’re going to need to switch off of your jack-of-all-trades spray-and-pray condition build.
Either that, or gear up with runes of Mercy so you can rez the people who understand that you can’t drop bosses by spamming conditions. This isn’t PVP.
Your post makes nearly no sense in the context of what people are saying….. we are saying power does rule them all.
They replaced the holy trinity with power, power, and power…. big change
They already address that they can’t increase the condition cap because of the limitation of their servers.
Dpsing teq is purely power builds at the moment.
Then they should just take condition damage out of the game entirely.
They need to stop beating around the bush and start dealing with the real issues. This content should have never made it into the game when the damage system doesn’t even function properly.
Why is anyone still even running condition builds in PvE? Direct damage is superior in virtually every way.
I’m not saying “Stop whining!”. I’m saying keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed. But for god’s sake, change to direct damage so you aren’t so useless until Anet does finally fix this.
Because the option is given by ArenaNet. As infuriating as it is you really can’t blame the players for this. We need to hold them accountable for their bad design instead of bickering with one another.
They already address that they can’t increase the condition cap because of the limitation of their servers.
Dpsing teq is purely power builds at the moment.
Then they should just take condition damage out of the game entirely.
They need to stop beating around the bush and start dealing with the real issues. This content should have never made it into the game when the damage system doesn’t even function properly.
Why is anyone still even running condition builds in PvE? Direct damage is superior in virtually every way.
I’m not saying “Stop whining!”. I’m saying keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed. But for god’s sake, change to direct damage so you aren’t so useless until Anet does finally fix this.
Because the option is given by ArenaNet. As infuriating as it is you really can’t blame the players for this. We need to hold them accountable for their bad design instead of bickering with one another.
As I said in my post, “keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed”. I’m not blaming the players, I blame Anet. I’m saying the players may as well make themselves useful until this is resolved. Why choose to be useless when you don’t have to be? Actively try to improve the situation by keeping on Anet’s kitten , but at least make the best of a bad situation while you’re in it.
As I said in my post, “keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed”. I’m not blaming the players, I blame Anet. I’m saying the players may as well make themselves useful until this is resolved. Why choose to be useless when you don’t have to be? Actively try to improve the situation by keeping on Anet’s kitten , but at least make the best of a bad situation while you’re in it.
Because it means them sacrificing their time to grind new gear. I think people are sick of having to go out of their way to combat ANet’s bad design choices and I don’t blame them. I’m on the verge of quitting myself due to every update making the game worse and I’m full power.
Vulnerability is OP. Do that and zerk it up and win. It’s been known that power > condition for pve for a very long time now. I’m not sure why people still run these builds so stubbornly only to contribute less to their group and are the ones that complain. I don’t see why putting conditions on something from a range rather than meleeing something with little health and armor should be comparative damage either. As far as structures go zerkers lose out on crit damage so they are screwed over just as much as a condition build. Guild Wars 1 favored power over conditions for pve too and no one had a problem with that.
Conditions builds are still useful in this for defending but yeah this needs to addressed. Stats of bleeding past 25 would do and insane amount of damage but so dose 15 people attacking him with power. Although vulnerability would likely be too much and need a cap since it affects everyone’s damage.
I don’t care that a structure bleeding to death makes no sense. I’ll be running around killing mods fine and then spend 5 minutes killing a canon. You lose crits on structures as well but you’re damage isn’t minimal if your a power build.
This is why nearly everyone is a zerker in PvE. Terrible design kills everything else.
Why is anyone still even running condition builds in PvE? Direct damage is superior in virtually every way.
I’m not saying “Stop whining!”. I’m saying keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed. But for god’s sake, change to direct damage so you aren’t so useless until Anet does finally fix this.
You cant use conditions or crit on this boss so it not that unfair,all pure dps gear will suffer dont matter what build you are using
There is a huge difference between losing about half your damage and losing all your damage. Against Tequatl, condition builds do no damage past base weapon damage, which is extremely low. Power builds still benefit from power.
I agree with the message of this thread. At the very least make the fingers enemies instead of objects. The last role I could possibly contribute to was destroyed when I realized it would take me the entire 15 minute fight to kill a single finger with my scepter…
Why is anyone still even running condition builds in PvE? Direct damage is superior in virtually every way.
I’m not saying “Stop whining!”. I’m saying keep kittening in the forums because this does need addressed. But for god’s sake, change to direct damage so you aren’t so useless until Anet does finally fix this.
You cant use conditions or crit on this boss so it not that unfair,all pure dps gear will suffer dont matter what build you are using
There is a huge difference between losing about half your damage and losing all your damage. Against Tequatl, condition builds do no damage past base weapon damage, which is extremely low. Power builds still benefit from power.
You don’t need to make it all ascended. Just use exotic. Better than being useless.
I honestly can’t imagine a game having this issue, let alone be ignored for so long. Imagine WoW’s warlock DoTs not applying or getting replaced after .1 second.
I love guild wars 2, but this is the kind of thing that makes me wait for the next big game to play, hoping a good dev team comes along finally. I am losing interest because I don’t feel like I’m contributing, and I’m actually not.
Why did they even have condition builds in the game if they werent going to be viable for almost anything?
This issue has gone on long enough… its ridiculous.
They use the “technical limitations” excuse for everything, and Im sick of it. Every other game I have played featured DoT using classes, and miraculously they could all apply their damage to world/big bosses. Why is it so hard to make it work in this game?
When I play my necro, I dont want to have to completely re-gear and re-trait just so I can participate in content. The bigger issue is that I enjoy playing a conditionmancer, so why should I not be allowed to play that?
I totally agree; I am a condition Necro and I always feel useless compared to other classes due to virtually everything mentioned above, which is ridiculous. Necromancers are my favorite class to play and my class choice should not hold me back; it’s not about what class you play, but how you play it, and making an entire build useless is just nonsense. It’s bad enough that you can’t even play a MM anymore successfully :/
