Guild Wars 2

If you analyze Teq, the fight itself is far from hard. If the scaling allowed it, it could probably have been done by 10-20 people. (6 on turrets, 2 attacking and 2 defending, etc).

Why? Because there’s really no challenge to him at all.
-Shockwaves? Dodge or jump. We learned this in Flame & Frost bosses.
-Whirlpools? Move or dodge.
-Poison? Easily cleansed by the turrets and avoidable.
-Mobs? Killable. Only champs pose any significant threat.

His moves are easily telegraphed and aren’t even that powerful. I’ve gone in with pure zerker gear and still managed to come out on top without being down or dying. Even with the poison cloud spam.

Want to know what makes this “hard”?
-His high health pool
-Time limit
That’s it. Those two combined have only made this a dps race. Simply because he isn’t challenging at all if you take a step back to look at things. The difficulty is merely a pseudo one because in order to counter the high health pool, you need more damage, and in order to counter the timer, you need to do that both strong and fast. Which requires people.
But I can be sure that a smaller team, scaled properly could easily manage this. I’m sure even some of the dungeon bosses are harder mechanically. I’m pretty sure Liadri is still tons ahead of Teq in terms of ‘difficulty’.

I enjoy challenging boss fights. But this wasn’t challenging at all on a personal level. Getting achievements for it is a bit of a joke. I put in less effort for this fight (because it really wasn’t needed) than I did for Liadri. The fight really just boils down this this;

“You had one job.”

If it weren’t for the turret mechanic (which is really just spam #2 to avoid the bone wall) and time limit. I’m sure he’d be just as soloable as before. He’s not complicated or requiring any forethought of awareness beyond your own personal bubble. The only thing that makes this ‘hard’ is whether or not others can follow suit. It’s not a real difficulty.

The only rage that comes from this event is;
-Overflows
-People away From Keyboard
-Not Doing Their Job

Besides people being in overflow, these exact same things would make people rage in dungeons as well. I can just imagine how lovely those would be with a time limit.

Add real difficulty before call it challenging content. Not a race where you are only as strong as your weakest link.

Sincerely,
Talonblaze, The Sunbringer.

The difficulty isnt the fight itself, its everything else around it:

AFK/Leechers
Overflows
Requires TS3/Mumble/Vent
Only SIX turrets, so trolls/afk on one ruin the encounter
This event doesn’t scale to the required 80 members, but a full map.
The disconnect issue
To many people defending turrets spawn champs that are hard to kill
Everyone at teq needs pvt gear (condition still pointless here)
Abusing ele weapons for dps

It’s true the most difficult part is getting enough players and organization. The more players involved the less impact you have other than people on turrets spamming 2 and maybe commanders yelling at people to stack on them.

If you mess up during this big zerg fest nobody will notice because there are so many players and anyone can enter since it is open world. If you mess up in a dungeon or solo content there is much more impact. It’s the reason zerg events are so popular

Im going to say that dpsing him is not hard to do without getting downed. Course Im on a warrior traited and geared pvt with three different health regens running and healing shouts. Is that coordination needed? Stacking near his leg depending on guardian reflects ect and all I saw two seconds after the event started was a kitten sea of downed players. I am talking out my kitten Ive never seen him below 50%. Almost seemed that it was being made more complicated than it is though.

I think that turret system needs a change. If someone is afk’ing for about a minute and do not use any of the turret skills, then he should automatically leave it, so any other player could mount it. To improve that, there should be markings on the minimap showing whenever the turret is used by someone or not (red – its taken, green – it’s free, you can go on and smash #2).

Charak.9761:

The difficulty isnt the fight itself, its everything else around it:

AFK/Leechers
Overflows

Same for me.
Because even in a kittenty overflow i cant even die, but the dragon neither… so…

It’s not hard, it’s just not fun is the problem.

Op hasn’t been on the turret = Op has only been carried through this event, now thinks it’s easy.

/Headdesk

Volkon.3025:

Op hasn’t been on the turret = Op has only been carried through this event, now thinks it’s easy.

/Headdesk

I’ve been on a turret, been frontline on the Teq foot, I’ve also been turret defense. I’ve done it all. If you like, I could even detail exactly how my strategies go to preform and my survival and efficiency for all 3 jobs if need be.

The roles aren’t hard at all. You just can’t be 100% relaxed sipping your coffee. But they are far from achievement status or difficult.

This event is easy on the grand scale of things. As i mentioned in several cases, the difficulty isn’t from Teq himself, its from everyone else to make up for the race mechanic.

I agree. The mechanics are quite simple. It is the coordination of everyone and having enought actually working together and knowing what to do is the challenge. I have not been able to down him yet because of, not enought players partaking, or people not rezzing correctly, etc. etc. Nothing that was in my control.

There are several things that make this hard.

- Having folks that wony use a voicechat program
- Having turrets that fly over the place to nearest target or in the direction of mouse clicker.
- Overflows where most folks dont try to voice communicate organize
- AFKers
- People that refuse to listen to commanders
- People that dont know what they are doing, dont understand, dont care about mechanics
- People that dont rezz downed players
- Dead players in bad rezz spots that dont WP and run back.
- People not rezzing (the 30-45 seconds of running back is worse then the 5-6 seconds of rezzing them. (You might never agree with this, but it basically just destroyed the rezzing mechanics and why everything always pointed us to use it, next they will contestball waypoints but the very north one, then see how useful WPing is)
- Motivation to succeed (sorry, its severely lacking)

Talonblaze.3175:

I’ve been on a turret

But there you are saying you autocast 2, which of course doesn’t work at all.

everyone knows the hardest part about fighting tequatl is playing with other bads

Perhaps a better way of saying this is to say that the fight is not well-designed for open world PvE. That’s what you are saying when you talk about overflows and afkers. Yes, it is a dps race, but it also depends on a cerntain level of coordination—something that all challenging content should. It should be obvious that you will not find such coordination in the open world—at least reliably. You can know that through experience or simply a thought experiment if you have good reality-testing skills.

The inappropriateness of Teq has absolutely nothing to do with it being ‘hard’. It is simply bad design for open world PvE.

i am sure it was said many times before that his health and time given is just too much

those are only reason you have to bring so many people and somehow anet doesn’t understand that not every server runs those events and you can’t really guest due to overflow -> network error

if he actually scaled down like EVERY SINGLE other boss out there it wouldn’t be such an issue…

as said before, the fight is fine for guild runs maybe but not open world; right now this fight is only for very selected servers and guilds really = too much favoritism toward high populated pve servers…

imagine only players from Blackgate and JQ could do fractals, other servers not…that is what Teq situation is right now

idk why anet is so stubborn and stuck with this “super hard content” design… if you want to make hard encounters for hardcore pve’ers, make hard guild challenge

the server → overflow mechanics doesn’t support Teq design, sry

Charak.9761:

The difficulty isnt the fight itself, its everything else around it:

AFK/Leechers
Overflows
Requires TS3/Mumble/Vent
Only SIX turrets, so trolls/afk on one ruin the encounter
This event doesn’t scale to the required 80 members, but a full map.
The disconnect issue
To many people defending turrets spawn champs that are hard to kill
Everyone at teq needs pvt gear (condition still pointless here)
Abusing ele weapons for dps

quoted for truth. I’ve killed him enough to get all achievements (well, i’m still missing that jump pad one since the invisible wave killed me while i was mid air) but i’ve spent way too much time with him and that’s just not worth the frustration that he causes. On top of that, every attempt took about 2h for preparation+waiting.
Reward for all that hassle: 2 cheap exotics

GW2 will never have challenging PvE content (especially in the open world) that will meet the desires of those who have the best twitch reflexes, combined with acute perception. Replacing tanks and healers with twitch-based avoidance/invulnerability mechanics guarantees this. If you want truly challenging combat under this combat system, you need to go to PvP. The challenge in Teq is less about individual skill that it is about being in a group with enough players who have an understanding of what to do and when, and enough individual skill to not die so much that their absence(s) costs the group.

Another way of saying this is:

1. The fight requires organization and is on a hard timer
2. The boss spawn is not on a hard timer and this timer is not known to players

So when the boss spawns, you have to have your group (100+ people) ready, but the people aren’t ready because there is no way to tell when the boss will spawn, other than just waiting afk. GL with that.

This isn’t a problem with the karka queen, players spawn that boss, and if players are able to complete the Camp Karka event at the same time as other events, then there are at least enough players to realistically attempt the boss on the map.

Open world PvE raids are just another form of PvP. You have to fight the idiots and the afks. The fight itself is simple enough that they expect a group of randoms to beat it.

Talonblaze.3175:

If you analyze Teq, the fight itself is far from hard.

This sentence can be said of any MMO encounter after one learns the mechanics (or meets the minimum gear requirements often imposed). That is the nature of the beast. Something is challenging to people at first, then they learn it. I do think the volumes of dead people in poison pools or after Tequatl’s wave attacks hit belie your claim that “we” have learned these things. Some people have and some people have not.

Some ways to present new challenge is to add a form of scaling that occurs when the server succeeds at the encounter, or improved AI that learns players behavior and adapts. No MMO does this as far as I know.

I agree the timer adds challenge, but it is a uninspiring form of challenge that amounts to a DPS/skill check against the mechanics. It’s a skill check in that those who have the skills to jump waves, learn his telegraphs, and clear/avoid poison pools should be up to DPS him.

Talonblaze.3175:

-Mobs? Killable. Only champs pose any significant threat.

The Champs are actually fairly harmless …. IE: they’re usually just a Thrall that hits 3x harder and has 30x more hitpoints. …It’s actually the Hypnoss & Abom veterans that I’ve noticed are the biggest threat and the Hypnoss especially are always neglected the hardest when they should really be the primary target even before the Aboms.

Another mistake I’m seeing here, is people actually trying to KILL champ Brutes. ….this being incredibly stupid because… #1 it’ll just respawn again the instant the first goes down… #2: The manpower of pure DPS’ers required to kill them quickly, is completely disproportionate to the 1 single mostly useless survival “Kiter” who could easily keep up to THREE brutes chasing him in a circle for more than 15 minutes without even breaking a sweat.

…
But unfortunately, trying to explain this to the masses is like talking to a wall
People will spam skills and let the “auto-targeting” do the deciding FOR THEM.
(that “feature” really should have been OFF by default… so people would have to learn use their brains to play the game properly right from the beginning)

Volkon.3025:

Talonblaze.3175:

I’ve been on a turret

But there you are saying you autocast 2, which of course doesn’t work at all.

Any why not? If you make sure Teq remains targeted, having the scales remover fire upon preparation is much faster than doing it manually.
Which allows the turret operator to fire the other skills when its required.

Though, with a solid group, even the scales aren’t that big of a deal since the wall can be taken down in 3 seconds flat.

ilr.9675:

The Champs are actually fairly harmless …. IE: they’re usually just a Thrall that hits 3x harder and has 30x more hitpoints. …It’s actually the Hypnoss & Abom veterans that I’ve noticed are the biggest threat and the Hypnoss especially are always neglected the hardest when they should really be the primary target even before the Aboms.

To be honest, the only champ that seems lethal that cant be handled by oneself is the Champ Grub. (Which is probably the hardest thing about this fight simply because of its damage and AoEs.)

But you are correct in that keeping the other ones alive is only advantageous to making sure none of the others spawn, allowing the rest of the defenders to focus on fingers.

Tequatl himself isn’t that hard.

What makes it hard is getting everyone on the map coordinated.

This is the HUGE downside to this fight which makes it almost no fun.

Now if you are lucky enough to land in a map where a large guild is running Tequatl, lucky you, the fight should be pretty easy – however, if you are like probably 90% of the population where you don’t get a large guild group – you now rely on the coordination of complete strangers.

Coordinating an attack with complete strangers is so frustrating. No one listens. People lose track of their goal. Without people being on a VoIP (like most large guilds have) – you’re a kitten in a dog park.

Let me preface this by saying that I love challenging events. However, I have never, and I mean NEVER, been able to be on my main server for this event at any time of day, and the overflow was unorganized, underpopulated, and/or clueless (with and without a commander). I’ve never even seen Tequatl get down to 75% in the entire week and a half I’ve been trying to participate in a winning event. I did what I could complete of the achievements, got my wings, and then just gave up. It bites to have to spend the time hopping around other servers in the gamble that those servers might have room and actually know what to do. Bleh to this event. Too much time spent over the last week with absolutely no reward to even bother with it anymore.

You can’t say the fight isn’t hard, but then go on to explain why it’s hard. It’s like saying “SAB Tribulation Mode isn’t hard, as long as you know what you’re doing”

The high HP and timer to defeat him is part of the challenge. You need to plan a strategy so that you can actually succeed within the stated time limits.

ilr.9675:

Talonblaze.3175:

-Mobs? Killable. Only champs pose any significant threat.

The Champs are actually fairly harmless …. IE: they’re usually just a Thrall that hits 3x harder and has 30x more hitpoints. …It’s actually the Hypnoss & Abom veterans that I’ve noticed are the biggest threat and the Hypnoss especially are always neglected the hardest when they should really be the primary target even before the Aboms.

Both Hypnoss and Abomination also can come in the Champion version, in addition to Champion Risen Grubs. Any of those three is really bad news (unlike brutes, which can simply be kited, as you have mentioned).

Jerry Attrick.5963:

Tequatl himself isn’t that hard.

What makes it hard is getting everyone on the map coordinated.

And the fact that the game not only gives you no tools to help with that, it actually works against you here (as the overflow mechanic and unknown respawn timer promotes akitteng in the main server).
Edit: please, please, unfilter “afk” term. It’s getting really annoying to see kittens everywhere.

Question to OP: what sort of build is best to operator turret?

I’m not convinced that you know how to operate a turret properly based on what u said in this thread, so please don’t trivialize people’s hard work.

Teq fight is not a dps race. World record is set at 7.42s at the moment, which means a sub-optimal dps zerg can make it in time with proper organization.
Every build (full dps, bunker, support, healer, crowd control, lockdown etc.) has its place in the event.

Maybe so, but I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with that, as encounters like teq seems to be geared to be a challenge to the group(zerg) as a whole, rather than simply challenging individual players.

Lambent.6375:

Maybe so, but I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with that, as encounters like teq seems to be geared to be a challenge to the group(zerg) as a whole, rather than simply challenging individual players.

A guild can be considered a single entity, and subject to challenges, as it is capable of self-improvement. Zerg cannot, because it has no self-identity, and lacks any control mechanism.