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Posted by: Elric of Grans.7684

Elric of Grans.7684

Before people jump me, I am not saying `we should have easy content only’, nor am I saying that the event is too challenging for me. The failures are human, not technical.

Scarlet’s Invasions should have demonstrated two very clear things to the designers:
1) Players do not cooperate,
2) Players get abusive when they are expected to cooperate.
Now, we have an event that requires 100+ players to coordinate seamlessly and operate under incredible unity. Sure, this can be done. WvW does that all the time, which is almost certainly why BG were the first server to succeed. PvE, on the other hand, does not feature any cooperation. In fact, the number of times I have had a half-dozen mobs trained into me and the player abandoned me to their gentle caresses shows how much the average PvE player cares about others. Spend even five minutes in Queensdale and you will be sick of the arguments on which order to kill the Champions in!

Sure enough, we have problems aplenty. The six (critical) turrets can (and often will be) manned by trolls/griefers, AFK players, or simply people who do not understand their role in the event. The event area itself is filled with AFK or dead players who contribute nothing. We then also have a lvl63(?) encounter that seems to be balanced for full-exotic geared lvl80s, though we can easily have full-Fine geared lvl50s `taking up space’. In fact, I have seen a lvl10 naked character there, so go figure!

This, inevitably, causes frustration. Frustrated players begin taking it out on other players. Casuals need to quit the game, because they are holding the group behind. Anyone who does not have multiple sets of exotic gear to swap between (for different roles) needs to leave, because they are holding everyone back. Anyone who lacks extensive Dungeon and/or WvW experience is a problem. Anyone playing a Necro, Thief, Ranger or Engineer is wasting space. Too many players in the zerg, because they are all morons. Too many players defending turrets, because they are stupid. Everything is the fault of anyone other than the frustrated player.

That there is the key issue. What causes frustration? Having an issue you do not have the resources to resolve. Why can these players not overcome the challenge? Because they have to rely on other players, who are obviously going to be inferior to them. They lash out, people get upset, players quit. Clearly, a massive failure by ANet who should be using Living Story to foster interest in the game, not lead it to be associated with harassment.

What is the solution? No idea. I have no clue how you are supposed to make a massive world event like this work without making it pointlessly simple. You are trying to balance for uncoordinated, random players of widely varied skill and resource limits. The current event excludes all but the most elite players (and even they are struggling); the original version was boring even to the most casual player. This kind of effort in a game is also unsustainable. A week or two of attempting to gather and coordinate 100+ players? Maybe. A month? Doubtful. I cannot see anyone bothering with Tequatl by Christmas. Nothing was learned by the failings in Scarlet’s Invasions leading to a far larger failure.

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Posted by: UndeadRufus.6832

UndeadRufus.6832

seems to be balanced for full-exotic geared lvl80s

While I agree that the cooperation demanded by this event is a pipe dream for most PUGs, I think this is at least equally to blame. I saw someone yesterday comment that Tequatl now makes Zhaitan look like a lowly common Son of Svanir.

“Fickle, wild, irrational apes aren’t qualified to boss each other around….”

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Posted by: Azure Prower.8701

Azure Prower.8701

It is indeed a spectacular failure.

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Posted by: MeGaZlo.9516

MeGaZlo.9516

Not all at once. Sooner or later, the encounter will be mastered and will seem easy.
Increasing complexity teach people to be serious to their abilities and gear, as well as other players and combo mechanics.

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Posted by: ZudetGambeous.9573

ZudetGambeous.9573

Not all at once. Sooner or later, the encounter will be mastered and will seem easy.
Increasing complexity teach people to be serious to their abilities and gear, as well as other players and combo mechanics.

If by “master” you mean eventually all the trolls will be banned and all the casual players will quit the game leaving it in financial ruin… then maybe.

That’s the only way this event will ever get “easier”

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Posted by: rizzo.1079

rizzo.1079

Not all at once. Sooner or later, the encounter will be mastered and will seem easy.
Increasing complexity teach people to be serious to their abilities and gear, as well as other players and combo mechanics.

The overflows I’ve made it to for this event have gotten maybe 10% off his life. I don’t think I’m going to bother with the ‘learning curve’ for this one much longer.

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Posted by: skullmount.1758

skullmount.1758

The correct order for Queensdale is BOTS or BOTBS

But yeah, I really dislike this change to Tequatl. The amount of coordination needed, isn’t present in most servers, let alone overflows. I’d say it went back a patch before the invasions with the Queens Gauntlet one. Just look at what happened with the gauntlet, that was supposed to promote community, when (from what I’d seen) all it did was cause problems. People not rezing, farmers (ooze/deadeye/etc), etc.

Darkhaven server
Please give us a keyring…

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Posted by: kaid.7695

kaid.7695

I will try this fight for the next couple days. After that I don’t see my self ever bothering again. Even if he can drop rarely ascended gear if you some how magically get into the primary zone for your server not the dregs of the overflow the time vs reward is simply not there. Even mindlessly running champion circuits and temples is a more effective usage of your time than this dragon fight. Sure it can be beaten in its current state if you can get enough people into voice chat and coordinate the fight and get lucky not having afk trolls in the turrets. But even if you do win the amount of time you have to sit in the zone and the amount of failed attempts you will endure it simply is not worth the effort.

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Posted by: Arrow.3856

Arrow.3856

I’ve decided to do once a day for the wings. I was shocked at today I guested 2 high tier servers who I had guested yesterday. They dropped half in numbers and I wasnt sent to overflow.

“I may not be a horse whisperer, but I certainly
can and do speak to unicorns.” (Arrow The
Unicorn)

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Posted by: Lostwingman.5034

Lostwingman.5034

I have the exact same sentiments as OP.
There’s few things as frustrating as having an +hour of preparation done in by afks manning turrets.

Bad@Ele: Alaric Von Manstein
Bad@Thief: Kiera Gordon
Sea of Sorrows, a server never before so appropriately named.

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Posted by: Ghaste.2419

Ghaste.2419

I hope Anet will learn from this.

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Posted by: kulle.6542

kulle.6542

i agree with op. i stopped playing gw2 for now, no point.

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Posted by: Dark.4956

Dark.4956

I love they are making the bosses harder.
it pushes people to get better gear, learn better strategies and learn the game.

I hate..that they create it so it’s needed that 100 people co-operate, expect that 6 turrets can do the job (when 5/6 will be noobs jumping in and not know what to do, or read what to do, or listen to what is needed)

what happens in an overflow..
5% health stripped..WOOT…we’re so friggin great..

what do we get for wasting hours hoping to get into the main area and NOT an overflow…ABSOUTELY NOTHING!

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Posted by: Xista.7391

Xista.7391

I kind of agree. The idea behind it is good, just poorly implemented.

This game probably needs challenging content for its longevity. Open world bosses that require 100+ people isn’t the answer. Some servers can’t even muster up that many people.

I waited 3 hours to get into jade quarry last night. When I finally get in, we have commanders that are trying to micro manage 75+ people TS down to the last detail, and people, for the most part, are listening. But when the fight actually happens, people don’t stack on pins, they stop defending their turrets etc…

We’ll eventually get the fight down. But what’s frustrating is waiting for half the evening to play with my own realm (so many guesters thinking JQ will down it soon). Also, I highly doubt that people will hop in TS a month or two down the road. It’ll just be a clusterkitten, or become abandoned.

I would have liked to see the squad function fleshed out more to become more like raid groups. Have Tequatl an instanced fight where you can defeat it with 20ish people. Resets once daily. Then in the open world, keep Tequatl on par with other bosses. Maybe a great idea, but it’s something I would like more than this.

In-game opinions of Skyhammer: http://i.imgur.com/FKymDjC.jpg

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Posted by: Cactus Brawler.7415

Cactus Brawler.7415

Changed too much stuff, and did it badly.

Lets take condition damage builds, Poison, Bleed, Torment and Burn, two people can stack those to maximum, and with two people doing that, congratulations if you’re not one of those people, you’re having a negative effect, you’re not putting out enough damage to make up for the fact you’re buffing the dragon in the area.

Crit damage builds? Well you can’t crit the dragon, you can’t crit his bone fingers, congrats, your hindering the event.

Not eighty with best in slot gear? Yup you’re letting the side down, despite this being a leveling zone.

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Posted by: Raven Paradox.1860

Raven Paradox.1860

I would agree for the most part. You see those videos posted of the successful Tequatl downs and the screenshots and you see people violently yelling at people. This to me is “WoW content”. WoW is a game that pins players against each other, even when expected to work together. This is the only reason I’d like the timer to be increased, even if just to 20 minutes. Players have proven to cooperate, but you get that one person being a jerk hogging a turret, and the fight is ruined for everyone.

I do think this will be toned down just by player actions however, as people are more understanding of how to defeat Tequatl. But in the current state, players are getting frustrated, and we all know that the person to blame is never yourself.

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Posted by: Riot Inducer.8964

Riot Inducer.8964

I’ve decided to do once a day for the wings. I was shocked at today I guested 2 high tier servers who I had guested yesterday. They dropped half in numbers and I wasnt sent to overflow.

Same here, everyone’s stressing over trying to kill him and I’m just like, “Don’t mind me, just picking up teeth to earn my zombie wings.” Maybe I just did the participation daily at non-peak time but when I did it we barely had 60 people in the area. Seems like people are already either abandoning ship in mass on smaller servers or outright giving up on trying.

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Posted by: Dagraan.2854

Dagraan.2854

i agree with op. i stopped playing gw2 for now, no point.

Good riddance.

you know the people like him are the life force of Gw2 this game will die in maybe a month if all the “baddies” leave.

or are you 1%ers gonna pay the bills to keep this game running?

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Posted by: Snowblind.4371

Snowblind.4371

I read your post and realized how accurate it is to real life. In real life if aliens came and attacked us we wouldn’t band together and repel them. We would kill each other, sell each other out, complain about one another and ultimately die before we could ever put up a defense.

The Pact in the main story is the most fictitious part of this whole game, really.

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Posted by: Romek.4201

Romek.4201

ye before something like this send the designers on a server fighting balthasar or even grenth event

cant believe they think its a good idea to make something like this for complete map

this event is just anoying – i never have a chance to come on mainmap with 30min rightclick on grpmember to join them

wtf they are thinking

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Posted by: Drakkon.4782

Drakkon.4782

Honestly, I don’t care about killing him so long as I get my 9 achievements for the meta and my wings. But it is annoying that they’re making events that can’t be beaten by the general populous. I know that we’re supposed to learn the mechanics, but honestly, the events aren’t going to be learned by PUGs. Stuff like this should be reserved for instanced events, not open world zerging.

My only 80 is a strictly support character, so I can’t DPS on the boss. I’m best used killing adds at the cannons, so I do. But not many people are DPSing the boss, so it’s annoying (either that or they’re complete failures at the game, which may be, but requires another week of failing before we can draw that conclusion… conclusive…ly…).

“People don’t hate Scarlet the way Game of Thrones
fans hate Joffrey. They hate her the way Star Wars
fans hate Jar Jar Binks.”-not a direct quote, but still true.

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Posted by: Fungalfoot.7213

Fungalfoot.7213

Being permanently locked out of my main instance by guests I too have stopped trying. I guess I’ll give it another go once the hype has died down and the guest swarm has moved on. Hopefully they will consider overflows in the future when designing this type of content.

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Posted by: Nedeus.8251

Nedeus.8251

The fight itself is great and the difficulty is finally challenging. The problem is how it was delivered. This fight is worthy of an early end game boss. Switch Teq with Zaithan and you have the perfect encounter to close the chapter.(I took this chance to express my disappointment in the Zaithan fight).

This whole situation is like having a child. You spoil him with everything he wants without having to work for it and then one day you send him off to look for a job and make a living. Of course he will be lost and will have no idea what to do.

I completely agree with challenging content and I want more, but please increase the difficulty gradually.

My dream scenario even if it will never happen: instance it and turn it into a 20 players encounter. Introduce raids to the game. Leave the old Tequatl event in the open world for the casual community. Have the fight end with Tequatl escaping. The raid gives better rewards, of course.

…a man can only dream.

(edited by Nedeus.8251)

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Posted by: Ramona Flowers.7632

Ramona Flowers.7632

Not all at once. Sooner or later, the encounter will be mastered and will seem easy.
Increasing complexity teach people to be serious to their abilities and gear, as well as other players and combo mechanics.

No Way – A week from now you won’t be able to get enough people for the event.

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Posted by: Stx.4857

Stx.4857

Huge failure.. Whats the point of living story if only 1% of the players get to defeat it?

Save all the challenging stuff for raids or dungeons where it belongs.

2x 80 Necro, 80 Ranger, 80 Thief

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Posted by: Hexin.5603

Hexin.5603

ummm… every game out there has huge challenging open world bosses. Anet did a good job with this. The only issue isn’t around the boss, nor the mechanics of the battle. It’s around lazy people with lack of understanding or lack of will power to ‘read’ … coupled with the issue with the overflow system. Main maps tend to succeed where overflows fail . Really its just an understanding gap, which will shrink with time and experience.

Willing to pay for boxed expansion if you put legit GvG in the box $$

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Posted by: Romek.4201

Romek.4201

theres a difference with your chalenging content

its kitten bad design when the chalenge is not to kill the boss but to join your team for the fight

most anoying thing i ever played in any game

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Posted by: Goldberg.4831

Goldberg.4831

Huge failure.. Whats the point of living story if only 1% of the players get to defeat it?

Save all the challenging stuff for raids or dungeons where it belongs.

This!!! Thank godness for GTA5 this week

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Posted by: Cactus.2710

Cactus.2710

I hope Anet will learn from this.

Good luck with that. I honestly cannot remember where they have learned from any of their major mistakes. The same ill-designed stuff just keeps showing up. I’m not sure I’ve played any game where the devs seem to show so little understanding of their own game and their own player base.

D/D Thief who prefers mobility to stealth … so yeah, I die a lot
Stormbluff Isle [AoD]

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

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Posted by: zfx.3917

zfx.3917

The fact that not one of you has mentioned southsun cove, (presumably because you have all forgotten already) and the empty hole that zone is now, speaks volumes to
whats about to happen to Teq.

They did’nt learn from the mistake they made at southsun cove, they took the same
mistake and made it worse.

In a week, no one will care about Teq, and we will never be able to get
enough people to take him down, not to mention the blatant disregard
to exclude builds from even contributing.

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Posted by: Chewablesleeptablet.3185

Chewablesleeptablet.3185

I really don’t see anyone here giving solutions… just complaining.

How could they have made Tequatl better? Someone please answer that for me.

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Posted by: Fungalfoot.7213

Fungalfoot.7213

I really don’t see anyone here giving solutions… just complaining.

How could they have made Tequatl better? Someone please answer that for me.

By making him scale better. He needs to be tuned so that smaller serves have a chance of doing him so they don’t all end up guesting on bigger servers and driving the native population out.

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Posted by: skullmount.1758

skullmount.1758

I hope Anet will learn from this.

Lol, good one…

Darkhaven server
Please give us a keyring…

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Posted by: Sardonia.8196

Sardonia.8196

The biggest dissapointment with this patch is the amount of elitism I have seen rear its ugly head. Map chats and forums are exploding with it. People calling for raids. People calling people noobs and that they are terrible. This event was suppose to help bring people together, however, it is having the opposite effect.

Just like this post here as an example.

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

This was not much of a problem prior to this patch but now I do not even know what to say. This game was supposed to be unique with its concepts but unfortunetly it is starting to turn into every other game out there.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

i agree with OP

at this point Teq could be guild event but not open world boss

he will be just another temple soon that nobody wanna bother with…

solutions?

make amount of max stacks lower
add more turrets
add more time
lower HP

there are many things that could be done to make it managable

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: vhiran xergo.7802

vhiran xergo.7802

I agree to some extent. I’ve never seen the word “casual” be used so maliciously as it is in the map chat during this event. It’s not too much to require a high degree or coordination but if it requires third party tools (VoIP) to accomplish then something is wrong.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

funny thing is this game doesn’t have a feature like TS or skype…but has a boss that requires 80 ppl to use 3rd party software…

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Sardonia.8196

Sardonia.8196

They are trying to cater to the raid minded individuals. However that is probably less than 10% of the population. As I said previously, bosses should be winable 50% of the time. Make them engaging and fun. This was suppose to be a different type of game was it not?

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Posted by: rizzo.1079

rizzo.1079

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

Yeah not being able to see an already hard to see ring under water with a reflective surface and therefore being hit, then dodging into another just popping poison field, then being pulled through one by a krait and dying is definitely being a carebear…

Or it could be a badly designed encounter.

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Posted by: Tradewind.6913

Tradewind.6913

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

Yeah not being able to see an already hard to see ring under water with a reflective surface and therefore being hit, then dodging into another just popping poison field, then being pulled through one by a krait and dying is definitely being a carebear…

Or it could be a badly designed encounter.

Or you could not be using full Zerker gear for it.

If you’re not…yeeeaaaaah, l2p issue.

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Posted by: rizzo.1079

rizzo.1079

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

Yeah not being able to see an already hard to see ring under water with a reflective surface and therefore being hit, then dodging into another just popping poison field, then being pulled through one by a krait and dying is definitely being a carebear…

Or it could be a badly designed encounter.

Or you could not be using full Zerker gear for it.

If you’re not…yeeeaaaaah, l2p issue.

Yeeeeaaaa not being able to dodge things you can’t see /= l2p. Thanks for trying though!

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Posted by: Digivolution.8029

Digivolution.8029

Tequatl is really fun, you’re just baddies. Keep complaining and don’t learn from previous encounters with him.

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Posted by: Un Poulet.9754

Un Poulet.9754

This was a really good read.
I hope Anet read this also

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Posted by: Fallout.1798

Fallout.1798

They are trying to cater to the raid minded individuals. However that is probably less than 10% of the population. As I said previously, bosses should be winable 50% of the time. Make them engaging and fun. This was suppose to be a different type of game was it not?

I think that one of the problems, is that because the general player base has been used too for so long doing overall super easy world boss events, that the same applies here. Too many are used to being able to just spam the 1 key to auto attack, and practically go afk for the fight. For example, the Mark 2 golem, before this patch you could literally go melee it and not have any risk of dying.
The other problem I see is that a lot of the dead, do not seem to understand how to respawn at nearest waypoint available. Instead I will see players who just sit their under tequatl’s feet for several minutes dead, waiting for a player to revive them. Yea, we’re totally going to revive you in the middle of all those enemies and poison aoe fields….not. Reviving a player puts you to the top of the monster AI aggro table. Further increasing the chance I will die if I try to revive you. For downed players, its fine because it takes only a few seconds, which can be manageable. But if you are dead, it takes too long, and I will be targeted and killed.

Stormbluff Isle
[AoD]- Commander Vars Wolf

(edited by Fallout.1798)

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Posted by: Draygon.3587

Draygon.3587

I wish lower servers had the problems of people just not playing there role or too many people trying it at once, the amount of people we have on our server who from day 1 started off with probably just getting over the 80 min to finish this has just gone down from there, no strategy or communication will help if you only have this many people left who haven’t given up on it all together..

This is Devona’s rest last try

Attachments:

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Posted by: neon.4863

neon.4863

Its not Tequatl that is the failure… It is the players. Tequatl is beatable. Players just need to stop being selfish and carebears.

Have that mindset if you must, but don’t complain if they suddenly change their boss design to “make every boss soloable”, because then it won’t be the sudden shift that’s the problem, either. It’ll be you, and you’ll just need to stop being so selfish and hardcore.

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Posted by: rizzo.1079

rizzo.1079

Tequatl is really fun, you’re just baddies. Keep complaining and don’t learn from previous encounters with him.

I did learn…stay away from poison, protect turrets, dps him as you can. It’s all pretty easy…yet the overflows I’m in still manage to get him down 10% and that’s about it.

So all in all not very fun, frustration is not fun. Oddly enough the other boss revamps make things more challenging AND fun at the same time, this one was just badly done.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

He’s an open world boss that requires coordination. I think this is a good thing. You and your server need to get together, form a plan, and try it out. It’s not a boss that you can just walk up to push 1 then afk… you need a strategy and you need people to listen to that strategy. He’s still new right now, so not everyone knows what to do. That will change though. Don’t give up and keep trying to figure out the best way to do him! I have faith in you guys!

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

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Posted by: Tommyknocker.6089

Tommyknocker.6089

Teq the feared, teq the indomitable, teq the savage….

Fast forward one week.. teq the ingored. I’m sure though that those that say he is awesome and it is nice to have a challenge in PvE can band together with like-minded folks. Although they will fail too when even one pug refuses to get off a turret. I am glad it has been done a few times, but it don’t belong in the open world where getting trolled and wandering unknowing groups can spawn champs.