Guild Wars 2

Some players seem to think this is some alternative to raids. It’s not meant to be guild only content.

Noone says the Tequatl fight shouldn’t be challenging. But not to scaling the fight is gate-ing it towards large guilds. Tequatl needs to scale from up to 200 players.

Also the main story is focused around the dragons. So this content should not require such a organized large guild.

It isnt guild only content – I have killed it 5 times, only once with organized effort from a guild I am in. Of the 5 kills 3 were on my home server and 2 in overflow, on 3 I was in TS on 2 I wasnt.

It IS content that requires players to organize and plan before the fight work together during the fight. Sure guilds often do that but its not required. I think the beauty of open world content is exactly that i dont need that big guild to take part in “raids”. Instead I just need to organize with whoever else is there and pull together to do our best. It is unfortunate how many players do not want to do that and instead let the even fail due to apathy.

It needs to scale from 5-200 IMO. Map cap appears to be at least 200. 50 is too high.

Lucky.9421:

It needs to scale from 5-200 IMO. Map cap appears to be at least 200. 50 is too high.

Egzactly, tequatl should be possible to beat with 5 persons on turrets alone, not even 6. ROFL

I agree, I do not see this event sustaining itself after the ‘newest content hype’ dies out. I’m all for difficult contents, massive group contents and contents that require organization, and I actually liked the Teq fight when I had enough people and reasonable coordination, even when we failed. But in a general sense, yeah, this Teq fight is kinda not matching the format. Imagine how easy it would be to beat this guy, if it were an instanced raid where you could actually gather enough people before the fight starts, organize and plan ahead, and do not have to deal with wait times/afk’ers. Put it in as an open world spontaneous spawning event, and we get all sorts of problems, both gameplay-wise and not. I feel they got carried away by the epic idea it is on paper, and did not think how this would be like on a not-so-perfect world.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Lucky.9421:

It needs to scale from 5-200 IMO. Map cap appears to be at least 200. 50 is too high.

Egzactly, tequatl should be possible to beat with 5 persons on turrets alone, not even 6. ROFL

There are two events in this game that have a base scale higher than 5, KQ and TQ.

One is dead and the other is dying.

I mean, it is brand new and dying. I have played everything Anet has released since 2005(8 years! Wow, I’m old) and I have never seen anything they made die this fast.

People who say the event will die out is really missing the point.
After a couple months, they just need to release a new material for precursor crafting, to be dropped by revamped dragon champions only, and they will secure the continued prosperity of these events. It’s really not rocket science.

Lucky.9421:

I mean, it is brand new and dying. I have played everything Anet has released since 2005(8 years! Wow, I’m old) and I have never seen anything they made die this fast.

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

The Dragon is dropping Ascended weapons now. And many players are saying kitten this.

Dragons are too important in the story to be a guild raid.

It isn’t a guild raid, but that doesn’t mean you can’t form a guild to do it with. It’s definitely a hell of a lot easier to have an organized guild to do it with rather than doing it with a bunch of randoms, afkers, and trolls that don’t even make it to 75%. but again, it’s not a guild raid and you can do it with a map full of, well just about anyone that’s actually serious about taking him down. Just get organized, flailing around spamming 1 key isn’t going to beat this thing.

No it isn’t a raid, but some want it to be.

Raids should be like the temples in Orr. They should be available at any time until a large group defeats them.

I like Tequatl but hate that it does not scale. Not scaling to me turns this into a Raid.

Onshidesigns.1069:

No it isn’t a raid, but some want it to be.

Raids should be like the temples in Orr. They should be available at any time until a large group defeats them.

I like Tequatl but hate that it does not scale. Not scaling to me turns this into a Raid.

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards. And temples are not available at any time, after you cleanse it its going on timer cycle like any other event. Only difference is, temples have pre events.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

No it isn’t a raid, but some want it to be.

Raids should be like the temples in Orr. They should be available at any time until a large group defeats them.

I like Tequatl but hate that it does not scale. Not scaling to me turns this into a Raid.

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards. And temples are not available at any time, after you cleanse it its going on timer cycle like any other event. Only difference is, temples have pre events.

If it does scale at 80, that’s still too many players.

At Least one temple is usually closed at a given time. So there are almost always temples to do. And you have guesting to other servers also.

Onshidesigns.1069:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

No it isn’t a raid, but some want it to be.

Raids should be like the temples in Orr. They should be available at any time until a large group defeats them.

I like Tequatl but hate that it does not scale. Not scaling to me turns this into a Raid.

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards. And temples are not available at any time, after you cleanse it its going on timer cycle like any other event. Only difference is, temples have pre events.

If it does scale at 80, that’s still too many players.

At Least one temple is usually closed at a given time. So there are almost always temples to do. And you have guesting to other servers also.

Have you tryed pressing Alt durring world bosses? Dunno about your server, but at mine there is at least 100 ppl on every boss. Jormag usually causes overflow even on work days, and im not even on Gandara or some large pve server…

Im sure they used some sort of criteria for 80 ppl limit, not simply saying 80 is good number lets do that.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

No it isn’t a raid, but some want it to be.

Raids should be like the temples in Orr. They should be available at any time until a large group defeats them.

I like Tequatl but hate that it does not scale. Not scaling to me turns this into a Raid.

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards. And temples are not available at any time, after you cleanse it its going on timer cycle like any other event. Only difference is, temples have pre events.

If it does scale at 80, that’s still too many players.

At Least one temple is usually closed at a given time. So there are almost always temples to do. And you have guesting to other servers also.

Have you tryed pressing Alt durring world bosses? Dunno about your server, but at mine there is at least 100 ppl on every boss. Jormag usually causes overflow even on work days, and im not even on Gandara or some large pve server…

Im sure they used some sort of criteria for 80 ppl limit, not simply saying 80 is good number lets do that.

TC is my server and it is only in overflow during pick hours. If TC can’t beat it anytime, there is a huge problem.

Heinel.6548:

People who say the event will die out is really missing the point.
After a couple months, they just need to release a new material for precursor crafting, to be dropped by revamped dragon champions only, and they will secure the continued prosperity of these events. It’s really not rocket science.

No, they will only make the people all the more enraged when the 50 would be precursor crafters will get together and find out they are still not enough to kill Teq.

kRiza krimos.1637:

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards.

Lol, have you ever tried to do teq with 80 people? It does not scale that low.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Have you tryed pressing Alt durring world bosses? Dunno about your server, but at mine there is at least 100 ppl on every boss. Jormag usually causes overflow even on work days, and im not even on Gandara or some large pve server…

I am on Gandara and we’re no longer hitting overflows on Jormag most of the time. And we did before only because half the map slots are taken by champ farmers.
And 100 people at Teq would still not be enough. You need close to the full map capacity.

Astralporing.1957:

Heinel.6548:

People who say the event will die out is really missing the point.
After a couple months, they just need to release a new material for precursor crafting, to be dropped by revamped dragon champions only, and they will secure the continued prosperity of these events. It’s really not rocket science.

No, they will only make the people all the more enraged when the 50 would be precursor crafters will get together and find out they are still not enough to kill Teq.

kRiza krimos.1637:

It does scale. From 80 ppl upwards.

Lol, have you ever tried to do teq with 80 people? It does not scale that low.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Have you tryed pressing Alt durring world bosses? Dunno about your server, but at mine there is at least 100 ppl on every boss. Jormag usually causes overflow even on work days, and im not even on Gandara or some large pve server…

I am on Gandara and we’re no longer hitting overflows on Jormag most of the time. And we did before only because half the map slots are taken by champ farmers.
And 100 people at Teq would still not be enough. You need close to the full map capacity.

80 well prepared people with good communication, proper gear and good knowledge of event mechanics, words of deigners. I havent ever tryed with 80 people because it never happend that so little people attend to event. Have you tred with 80 people?

Afaik, even champ farmers join in on jormag fight, so that point is moot.

No you dont need full map capacity, day ago we killed him on overflow with barely over 100 ppl. Besides 3 guilds that showed up en masse, rest were lucky randoms that happend to be on that overflow. And it was one of most empty overflows since we managed to taxi all people to it. And I have witnessed massive failures even with full maps, its not about numbers.

Heinel.6548:

People who say the event will die out is really missing the point.
After a couple months, they just need to release a new material for precursor crafting, to be dropped by revamped dragon champions only, and they will secure the continued prosperity of these events. It’s really not rocket science.

Can’t tell if sarcasm.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

kRiza krimos.1637:

80 well prepared people with good communication, proper gear and good knowledge of event mechanics, words of deigners. I havent ever tryed with 80 people because it never happend that so little people attend to event. Have you tred with 80 people?

Yes. I have tried it with about 120 fully prepared, experienced and organized people that knew what to do, weren’t afk, and were doing everything with no visible flaws. We still weren’t enough.
(just for your information, our server did kill Teq consistently for the last week or so, with the same people and the same organization. It’s just there were a bit more of us then)

kRiza krimos.1637:

Afaik, even champ farmers join in on jormag fight, so that point is moot.

They join only in the last moments. If it was a Teq type fight, it would never even gotten to the second phase so they would never show up at all.

kRiza krimos.1637:

No you dont need full map capacity, day ago we killed him on overflow with barely over 100 ppl. Besides 3 guilds that showed up en masse, rest were lucky randoms that happend to be on that overflow. And it was one of most empty overflows since we managed to taxi all people to it.

Might have been almost empty when you started taxiing, but i’m sure you ended up with a lot more than 100 people.

And I have witnessed massive failures even with full maps, its not about numbers.

I never said numbers are enough – i said they are required. And they are.

Lucky.9421:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

I can always get up in 5 am before work log in and take a screen of empty event to prove some point on forum.
Its also not true that it has never happend, i remember of countless time i did shatterer with 2-3 other persons, or jormag with ~10. It can happend and it does.

edit: here’s a pic. shatterer is dead event. insert complain adressed to Anet. See how easy it is?

Astralporing.1957:

Might have been almost empty when you started taxiing, but i’m sure you ended up with a lot more than 100 people.

Well if you are sure even thou you haven’t been there, then my hat is off to you. Those are powers that goes beyond crystall ball.

kRiza krimos.1637:

I can always get up in 5 am before work log in and take a screen of empty event to prove some point on forum.

I’m sure you could. Reasonable people however are including pictures with UI visible, so we can see it’s both close to prime time and not an overflow (see here)

Lucky.9421:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

To start, for every screenshot of an empty sparkfly with just Tequatl, there’s one of a full zone that fights him.

But what I want to adress is your false claim of “nothing Anet has produced in years going unused”. LOTS of events go unused, because you cant expect every square foot of the game to be covered in players 24/7. That is ok. It’s also ok that during some Tequatls each day it just fails because nobody bothers at 3am. Same applied to all the never-killed champions in remote regions of Frostgorge for 1 year, until they were upgraded to loot pinatas. So if you havent seen content go unused you arent looking very hard. This is not a first.

The needed change for the encounter is adding a triggerable pre-event like most escorts have. The scaling is fine, the event is very winnable, and how often people do it depends on how interested they are in his special loot, and how willing they are to organize for it. The old version had nothing special to offer at all, a rare you can get at a dozen events just the same.

I prefer the new version because it offers a chance at something unique, and if you really want to consider losing 1 “free rares, just stand here and use 1” meta event the cost for that, its easily worth that price.

Mastruq.2463:

Lucky.9421:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

To start, for every screenshot of an empty sparkfly with just Tequatl, there’s one of a full zone that fights him.

More players means more players taking screen shots.

1. It isn’t guild only content. A lot of servers that didn’t have organized guilds still beat it, they just decided rather than whining they would organize together and beat it.

2. There is so much content out there that is for people who want achievements, and don’t want/need the help of others. This is the first event since the game came out that requires teamwork. So if you don’t like it, feel free to ignore it and do other content.

3. This game IS called GUILD WARS 2… hence GUILD. So it isn’t surprising or wrong of ANET at all to do a piece of content that requires organization which could also be looked at as best to do WITH a GUILD.

4. This content doesn’t take all but 100 people to achieve. Most guilds have over 100 players, and if they band up on an overflow… etc., they can get it done quite easily. My guild fills 3 overflows full a day, and beats it back to back… so if we can, you can.

HellsPriest.6745:

Most guilds have over 100 players

False. In fact unless something has changed, 100 accounts is the maximum capacity of guilds.

The gamewide average guild size, as per the metrics used to design guild missions is 20-50.

In addition, Gw2’s design encourages and enables much smaller guild sizes than many games and this has led to an environment in which 5-10 person guilds are not an uncommon sight, due to their ability to accomplish most of the content in the game.

Also note that many guilds created specifically FOR these new encounters are often “alt guilds” which people only tag to specifically for said content.

? 100 accounts?
A guild can have up to 500 accounts in it. So, NOT false.

They certainly do not encourage smaller guilds either, where are you getting your facts?

Also my guild is one of them “side alt guilds”. We have 4 guilds for it that all run together. We have over 1700 members.

You are outdated with your knowledge of how guilds work, so brush up on that before replying with such bold statements.

HellsPriest.6745:

1. It isn’t guild only content. A lot of servers that didn’t have organized guilds still beat it, they just decided rather than whining they would organize together and beat it.

2. There is so much content out there that is for people who want achievements, and don’t want/need the help of others. This is the first event since the game came out that requires teamwork. So if you don’t like it, feel free to ignore it and do other content.

3. This game IS called GUILD WARS 2… hence GUILD. So it isn’t surprising or wrong of ANET at all to do a piece of content that requires organization which could also be looked at as best to do WITH a GUILD.

4. This content doesn’t take all but 100 people to achieve. Most guilds have over 100 players, and if they band up on an overflow… etc., they can get it done quite easily. My guild fills 3 overflows full a day, and beats it back to back… so if we can, you can.

On 1. No scaling is limiting this content to only well organized guilds. Is your guild going advertise when they are fighting Tequatl to others? No they will not! And other guilds guest to other servers to fight Tequatl.

2. The story revolves around the dragons being a group effort for all players.

3. Guild Wars name mean guild. It has to do with the lore. But that does not mean players have to be it large guilds

4.That just not true at all! And large guilds do not want to compete over a server.

If you want Raids ask for something like temples but harder. Dragons are for everyone!

Your guild is a exploit!

Onshidesigns.1069:

If you want Raids ask for something like temples but harder. Dragons are for everyone!

That is why everyone can come and attend dragons. Or you meant to say dragon loot is for everyone to get without effort?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

If you want Raids ask for something like temples but harder. Dragons are for everyone!

That is why everyone can come and attend dragons. Or you meant to say dragon loot is for everyone to get without effort?

Guild are gusting to other servers. The small guild or solo player is lucky to find a organized zerg that can win.

Onshidesigns.1069:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

If you want Raids ask for something like temples but harder. Dragons are for everyone!

That is why everyone can come and attend dragons. Or you meant to say dragon loot is for everyone to get without effort?

Guild are gusting to other servers. The small guild or solo player is lucky to find a organized zerg that can win.

Solo players and small guilds that end up on same map can put some effort and organize. Its entierly different issue that they want to just show up pew pew and loot. Are you actually complaining about that?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Onshidesigns.1069:

If you want Raids ask for something like temples but harder. Dragons are for everyone!

That is why everyone can come and attend dragons. Or you meant to say dragon loot is for everyone to get without effort?

Guild are gusting to other servers. The small guild or solo player is lucky to find a organized zerg that can win.

Solo players and small guilds that end up on same map can put some effort and organize. Its entierly different issue that they want to just show up pew pew and loot. Are you actually complaining about that?

Most players will quit trying to kill Tequatl. That leaves only guild who attempt this event. Making this event like a guild raid.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Mastruq.2463:

Lucky.9421:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

To start, for every screenshot of an empty sparkfly with just Tequatl, there’s one of a full zone that fights him.

More players means more players taking screen shots.

Do you change your opinion if I post my 50ish Tequatl screenshots made during the last two weeks on my main server and various overflows, both from wins and losses? Or how many people need to post screenshots like that for it to count?

If you want to keep brushing it off maybe stop using anecdotal evidence like a few dozen people posting screenshots as any kind of proof for anything, because it proves nothing.

Mastruq.2463:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Mastruq.2463:

Lucky.9421:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its dying because you said so? Got any facts to backup your claims?

I see plenty of ppl coming, plenty of overflows…And as KQ goes, you know when was last time i did her? Today.

There are plenty of screens of barren main server maps elsewhere in this forum. That has never happened with anything Anet has released in 8 years. This is a first.

To start, for every screenshot of an empty sparkfly with just Tequatl, there’s one of a full zone that fights him.

More players means more players taking screen shots.

Do you change your opinion if I post my 50ish Tequatl screenshots made during the last two weeks on my main server and various overflows, both from wins and losses? Or how many people need to post screenshots like that for it to count?

If you want to keep brushing it off maybe stop using anecdotal evidence like a few dozen people posting screenshots as any kind of proof for anything, because it proves nothing.

People are more likely to brag about their accomplishments.

HellsPriest.6745:

1. It isn’t guild only content. A lot of servers that didn’t have organized guilds still beat it, they just decided rather than whining they would organize together and beat it.

How do you organize with random people that may not even want to equip properly, or use foods and nourishment, and even not respawn to the waypoint when killed?
You can’t. And that’s a problem. Because…

2. There is so much content out there that is for people who want achievements, and don’t want/need the help of others. This is the first event since the game came out that requires teamwork. So if you don’t like it, feel free to ignore it and do other content.

…while it does indeed require teamwork, it doesn’t give any instrument for that purpose. No kick option for afk people or trolls, you can’t choose when it starts (and since people must wait, many go afk), no way to invite just trusted people, and there are people in the map that aren’t even interested in doing Tequatl.
Unless you search for empty servers, effectively creating a sort of private instance.
[/quote]

3. This game IS called GUILD WARS 2… hence GUILD. So it isn’t surprising or wrong of ANET at all to do a piece of content that requires organization which could also be looked at as best to do WITH a GUILD.

Actually, no. It is called so due to the “guild wars” in the lore. You can find informations about them in the wiki.

HellsPriest.6745:

4. This content doesn’t take all but 100 people to achieve. Most guilds have over 100 players, and if they band up on an overflow… etc., they can get it done quite easily. My guild fills 3 overflows full a day, and beats it back to back… so if we can, you can.

They should have done it as a guild content from the start, then.
Since this event hasn’t got anything to do with an open world one, anyway. Treating it as one of them as only brought failures.

HellsPriest.6745:

? 100 accounts?
A guild can have up to 500 accounts in it. So, NOT false.

They certainly do not encourage smaller guilds either, where are you getting your facts?

HellsPriest.6745:

Also my guild is one of them “side alt guilds”. We have 4 guilds for it that all run together. We have over 1700 members.

You are outdated with your knowledge of how guilds work, so brush up on that before replying with such bold statements.

Well it’s nice that they finally increased the cap for large guilds I suppose. Initially it was 100.

I’m happy that your giant alliance of guilds houses 1700 people, but the fact remains that if you stop the players you see that are NOT in your guild and simply ask them about their guild sizes you’ll find my information to be quite accurate. Like all games there exist, at least one per server, a selection of large open recruitment guilds, but these guilds are the exception rather than the rule.

Gw2’s enabling of small guilds was something that was debated at length when guild missions were added, and I don’t think I need to pull up the exact quotes regarding ideal player counts for guild content for you to realize that all guild missions were designed for between 10 and 20 people. The game is designed to enable guilds of all sizes, as evidenced by the inclusion of practice bounty missions to address the issue small guilds were having with influence gain for mission unlocks.

I suggest you step outside your private an insular community and actually interact with people not wearing your tags once in a while and you may come to understand that your particular situation is exceptional, not normal.

All that said, I don’t have any problems with the tequatl event as is. It’s a perfectly simple open world event that only requires a very simple strategy and enough people working on that strategy.

Mastruq.2463:

To start, for every screenshot of an empty sparkfly with just Tequatl, there’s one of a full zone that fights him.

When people beat it they are more likely to take screens, as apposed to the masses who just don’t show up. Anet has the ability to measure activity on their end, so they know this anyway whether you agree or not. Their silence is deafening.

Also, I am speaking of the speed to which it has died. I have been playing Anet games, and their content updates, on release day since 2005. Yes this is the fastest abandonment of anything they have made. Period.

It is kind of pointless to argue over this right now, especially since Anet has the metrics anyway. What matters is that now, after KQ and TQ, Anet gets the feedback they need to address the issues that they are having with boss design.

For the sake of future content.

kRiza krimos.1637:

I can always get up in 5 am before work log in and take a screen of empty event to prove some point on forum.

Ignoring everything else wrong with this post, which others have pointed out. Some people also work night shifts or are Europeans on US servers because they wanted to be with their guilds/friends from GW1, or whatever. Not everyone can play during primetime. It is somewhat selfish to think the game should not be for them.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Its also not true that it has never happend, i remember of countless time i did shatterer with 2-3 other persons, or jormag with ~10. It can happend and it does.

The fact that those two dragons can be done with smaller numbers is the reason they remain popular. They can also be made more challenging without having a high base health scale. They could be given more deadly attacks, like TQ was. In fact, if they made TQ’s health scale more to lower numbers, they can get away with making his attacks even more deadly than they are now. I have never gone down vs TQ(not even on the first day) and I am not the most amazing player.

Side note: The few dedicated TQ slaying guilds are already showing signs of “had RL stuff to do lately”