Guild Wars 2

When i run a berserker build, why cant i do crit damage to Tequatl? I sacrafice health and defence for it… In the past it really wasn’t a problem. But now it is. Are we all supposed to run around in vit/though armor?

PS same problem with conditions.

We’ve never been able to crit dragons iirc.

Can you crit an elephant with a toothpick?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Can you crit an elephant with a toothpick?

maybe a tiny elephant and a giant toothpick.

Well, Berserker builds are probably the most OP specialization in the game, so it’s nice to see the Soldiers and Knights get a chance to shine

If I would have to guess, it would be to discourage the glassy types in the front line, while those in Soldiers gear are more likely to survive the tidal waves without having to jump or dodge through them.

With that said, I’d imagine we could end up with certain encounters where bosses could only be damaged by Criticals, or Conditions, or having X amount of Might stacks, or X amount of Vulnerability stacks on them, etc etc …. barring any technical limitations like the bleed caps of course.

It might be interesting to see how the community would react to that.

Personally, ever since Tequatl 2.0, I’ve been in the habit of building multiple sets of gear with different stats on them. Previously, I had four different sets with Berserker stats on them for mostly RP purposes.

I suppose that’s one way for Anet to bank on the idea of selling more bank tabs.

You’ve never been able to crit any boss that isn’t a standard mob. If it uses the special targeting points instead of just being a single object you can click on, it’s obviously programmed differently in some way. My guess for why we can’t crit any large bosses is that Anet can’t figure out how to make it work in their engine for some crazy reason. Just like the condition cap, it’s not a balance decision, it’s just a technical problem that they can’t find a solution for.

I would say severing an artery, be it millimeters thick or centimeters thick, it still severing an artery.. we should be able to crit really

Honestly, I think it comes down to balance. With having as many people involved as there are (we had 100 people at one point stacked on our main commander once) it would become a way more gear dependent fight to allow crits. It would mean any group with lots of berserkers would either have o problem at all, or else anyone without lots of berserkers would have an even lower chance of victory than now.

Its a technical reason. If they ever solve it the same patch will probably nerf crit chance and + crit damage, so be careful what you wish for.

It bites the big one for sure that two of my specs are useless against them. Not including half my traitlines geared towards ‘crits’.
It’s not a good idea to completely null a stat type from being a part of a major fight, especially with Anet’s ‘we encourage different builds!’ motto, its not looking fair for those who are built to do so.

I feel like the bosses should be able to be crit but maybe reduce the crit damage they take. There are quite a few on crit effects they are lost when fighting the bosses and I just find that annoying.

biofrog.1568:

I would say severing an artery, be it millimeters thick or centimeters thick, it still severing an artery.. we should be able to crit really

Its an undead dragon, what does it care for arteries? Not to mention that our swords probably cant reach deep enough to criticaly hurt dragon artery since its behind alot of flesh.

Talonblaze.3175:

It bites the big one for sure that two of my specs are useless against them. Not including half my traitlines geared towards ‘crits’.
It’s not a good idea to completely null a stat type from being a part of a major fight, especially with Anet’s ‘we encourage different builds!’ motto, its not looking fair for those who are built to do so.

you aren’t completely null. You are just null on a huge dragon. You can still murder all the mobs that spawn in the event which is extremely helpful

mallas.9836:

you aren’t completely null. You are just null on a huge dragon. You can still murder all the mobs that spawn in the event which is extremely helpful

But that isn’t supposed to be my role. Yes, thats essentially what I’m forced to do. (even though I can survive alot more than those spamming “PVT for life, berserker is useless here!”)
Im not complaining about being good defense. But I dislike having to be pidegon holed into doing so when my role is clearly offense. But my entire tree is redundant. Much to the same grief that CC’ers have on anything above Vets.

That and its not just Teq. This goes for all the world bosses. where am I then?
Jormag? Can’t crit objects like ice spikes or him. Better to ignore the mobs.
Shatterer? Same story, only that the mobs are roflstomped if they get close to the zerg.

It’s not just Teq where this implementation is flawed, it’s every boss encounter with that mechanic.

Berserkers should have to do some crazy “Shadow of the Colossus”: climbing puzzle stuff to earn their Crits on these things…

.

I’d also point out that it’s not even Zerkers who suffer the most from this, it’s actually Knights & Assassin gear that is hurt more by this. It’s just that a lot of “pubby” Zerker players aren’t usually as “good” at playing the game in general and their entire build/utilities are also completely “Glass” based so they get downed a lot more often than a really dedicated Assassin or Knights player who’s more diversified.

Yep, if you’re fighting the dragon directly, there’s no reason at all to be in anything other than a power build with soldier’s (P/V/T) gear. Arguements could be made for Cleric’s, but as most of Taco’s attacks insta-down, rather than damage, healing is of very limited utility.

You can put conditions on him, provided the cap has not been reached, but the cap is usually reached and maintained within seconds.

In other words, Power is still useful, and I suppose vit & toughness couldn’t hurt (even if they won’t save you), but condi damage, precision, and crit damage are all perfectly useless. Unless, of course, you’re fighting the spawns that try to destroy the cannons, but we can’t all be doing that.

Antitheist.5306:

You can put conditions on him

Proof/Video please

ilr.9675:

Antitheist.5306:

You can put conditions on him

Proof/Video please

http://i.imgur.com/n3NzyR4.jpg

kenbro.8265:

http://i.imgur.com/n3NzyR4.jpg

The only thing regarding conditions that was crippling to those with such builds was the condition cap. Otherwise they were still a viable source of damage and effects.

Talonblaze.3175:

mallas.9836:

you aren’t completely null. You are just null on a huge dragon. You can still murder all the mobs that spawn in the event which is extremely helpful

But that isn’t supposed to be my role. Yes, thats essentially what I’m forced to do. (even though I can survive alot more than those spamming “PVT for life, berserker is useless here!”)
Im not complaining about being good defense. But I dislike having to be pidegon holed into doing so when my role is clearly offense. But my entire tree is redundant. Much to the same grief that CC’ers have on anything above Vets.

That and its not just Teq. This goes for all the world bosses. where am I then?
Jormag? Can’t crit objects like ice spikes or him. Better to ignore the mobs.
Shatterer? Same story, only that the mobs are roflstomped if they get close to the zerg.

It’s not just Teq where this implementation is flawed, it’s every boss encounter with that mechanic.

you are a fly to a dragon. Are you really going to crit a dragon with a tiny sliver of metal? no.

The fix is get a second set of gear with karma. But tbh thats how games are. You are still needed in the fight thus they aren’t breaking any builds. You just can’t sit in loltons of damage.

Morsus.5106:

Well, Berserker builds are probably the most OP specialization in the game, so it’s nice to see the Soldiers and Knights get a chance to shine

You can’t crit, so why would Knight’s shine?

And more importantly, how’s replacing one top set with another a good thing? It’d be much nicer if you could play anything and be just as viable in terms of usefulness.

ThiBash.5634:

Morsus.5106:

Well, Berserker builds are probably the most OP specialization in the game, so it’s nice to see the Soldiers and Knights get a chance to shine

You can’t crit, so why would Knight’s shine?

And more importantly, how’s replacing one top set with another a good thing? It’d be much nicer if you could play anything and be just as viable in terms of usefulness.

you are. Some of you expect to sit in hilarious amount of dmg while doing hilarious amount of dps. It doesn’t work that way. You can’t have best of both worlds.

So in this fight, you are defenders of turrets which are THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THE WHOLE EVENT.. kitten s.

So you are actually the biggest part of the event.

mallas.9836:

you are a fly to a dragon. Are you really going to crit a dragon with a tiny sliver of metal? no.

The fix is get a second set of gear with karma. But tbh thats how games are. You are still needed in the fight thus they aren’t breaking any builds. You just can’t sit in loltons of damage.

We’re also talking about a dragon that can also suffer conditions like ‘bleed’ (its undead…) and other sorts of issues regarding the gameplay mechanics.
We’re talking about a game where you can burn fire elementals and chill ice ones. Bleed rocks and poison them too.

Why is some logic applied and the rest thrown in the garbage? I would think finding a weakspot to crit is more likely than poisoning or bleeding an undead being.

Talonblaze.3175:

mallas.9836:

you are a fly to a dragon. Are you really going to crit a dragon with a tiny sliver of metal? no.

The fix is get a second set of gear with karma. But tbh thats how games are. You are still needed in the fight thus they aren’t breaking any builds. You just can’t sit in loltons of damage.

We’re also talking about a dragon that can also suffer conditions like ‘bleed’ (its undead…) and other sorts of issues regarding the gameplay mechanics.
We’re talking about a game where you can burn fire elementals and chill ice ones. Bleed rocks and poison them too.

Why is some logic applied and the rest thrown in the garbage? I would think finding a weakspot to crit is more likely than poisoning or bleeding an undead being.

Obviously. The bleeds is stupid but so useless overall on TEq so its more laziness on ANETs part to now put that physic in.

The point is, its how it is, but zerkers don’t have the survivability thus stupid whining you can’t survive gigantic damage. Why should you be mega OP while others are then relegated to something else “not useful” as some of the posts have said.

mallas.9836:

Obviously. The bleeds is stupid but so useless overall on TEq so its more laziness on ANETs part to now put that physic in.

The point is, its how it is, but zerkers don’t have the survivability thus stupid whining you can’t survive gigantic damage. Why should you be mega OP while others are then relegated to something else “not useful” as some of the posts have said.

Damage is damage, even if its minimal. At least one with bleeds can do something. Even if minimal.
“Don’t have the survivability.” Please, the entire fight is kitten. I was picking up more of these PVT baddies in my zerker gear. Your added hp and toughness don’t mean squat if you don’t pay attention or learn. Taking ‘gigantic damage’ shouldn’t be tanked, it should be avoided. I never had troubles surviving Teq on the frontlines. All it takes is some gamesense. Personal Skill > Gear when it comes to survivability.

Damage output however is entirely gear dependent.
Zerker’s themselves are not ‘mega OP’. Skilled ones are. Because they know how to play. But I see many fail just as badly because they don’t know how to adapt or learn. The only difference the Teq fight allows is for the PVT people to be a little more lazy in learning how to fight in this instance, because they have less to worry about. It’s more forgiving, thats all it is.

Talonblaze.3175:

mallas.9836:

Obviously. The bleeds is stupid but so useless overall on TEq so its more laziness on ANETs part to now put that physic in.

The point is, its how it is, but zerkers don’t have the survivability thus stupid whining you can’t survive gigantic damage. Why should you be mega OP while others are then relegated to something else “not useful” as some of the posts have said.

Damage is damage, even if its minimal. At least one with bleeds can do something. Even if minimal.
“Don’t have the survivability.” Please, the entire fight is kitten. I was picking up more of these PVT baddies in my zerker gear. Your added hp and toughness don’t mean squat if you don’t pay attention or learn. Taking ‘gigantic damage’ shouldn’t be tanked, it should be avoided. I never had troubles surviving Teq on the frontlines. All it takes is some gamesense. Personal Skill > Gear when it comes to survivability.

Damage output however is entirely gear dependent.
Zerker’s themselves are not ‘mega OP’. Skilled ones are. Because they know how to play. But I see many fail just as badly because they don’t know how to adapt or learn. The only difference the Teq fight allows is for the PVT people to be a little more lazy in learning how to fight in this instance, because they have less to worry about. It’s more forgiving, thats all it is.

Lazy as in we have to die and sit in tons of damage, have to zerg res, time warbanners, running decent distances and save batteries, then run back and try to do mega dps to win?

Right lazy. Its more forgiving because we decided to either build ptv (for various reasons, mine because i WvW) or have a 2nd set of gear which can literally cost you NOTHING gold wise.

It seems the zerks are lazy since they don’t want to adapt to a fight that doesn’t allow them to sit in tons of damage while spinning around going tons of damage and just having auto attack on.

mallas.9836:

Lazy as in we have to die and sit in tons of damage, have to zerg res, time warbanners, running decent distances and save batteries, then run back and try to do mega dps to win?

Right lazy. Its more forgiving because we decided to either build ptv (for various reasons, mine because i WvW) or have a 2nd set of gear which can literally cost you NOTHING gold wise.

It seems the zerks are lazy since they don’t want to adapt to a fight that doesn’t allow them to sit in tons of damage while spinning around going tons of damage and just having auto attack on.

You make it sound like I don’t do any of those things either. The only difference between your PVT gear is your HP pool. That’s all. In fact, if you arrange your skills properly or pay attention, you shouldn’t even go down in that fight if you have a competent team.

Goldwise, it might not cost anything, no. But karma isn’t exactly as easy to obtain as it once was either, now is it? Not to mention my karma is also being saved for more important things like my Legendary.

I adapt to the fight via my own personal skill. I don’t rely on gear to make up for my mistakes. You could do this fight entirely naked if need be and still survive. That’s how easy it is to pay attention and not get yourself killed.
I’ll remember not to use my warbanners and stuff the next time I see a ‘tough guy’ PVT though. Clearly you won’t need it. As all zerkers are good for his binding #1.

Morsus.5106:

Well, Berserker builds are probably the most OP specialization in the game, so it’s nice to see the Soldiers and Knights get a chance to shine

W.v.W

kRiza krimos.1637:

biofrog.1568:

I would say severing an artery, be it millimeters thick or centimeters thick, it still severing an artery.. we should be able to crit really

Its an undead dragon, what does it care for arteries? Not to mention that our swords probably cant reach deep enough to criticaly hurt dragon artery since its behind alot of flesh.

I can kill stones with a sword, i can make stones bleed, i can poison stone. Doing crit damage to a big boss? Now i’m talking crazyyy :p

Talonblaze.3175:

mallas.9836:

Lazy as in we have to die and sit in tons of damage, have to zerg res, time warbanners, running decent distances and save batteries, then run back and try to do mega dps to win?

Right lazy. Its more forgiving because we decided to either build ptv (for various reasons, mine because i WvW) or have a 2nd set of gear which can literally cost you NOTHING gold wise.

It seems the zerks are lazy since they don’t want to adapt to a fight that doesn’t allow them to sit in tons of damage while spinning around going tons of damage and just having auto attack on.

You make it sound like I don’t do any of those things either. The only difference between your PVT gear is your HP pool. That’s all. In fact, if you arrange your skills properly or pay attention, you shouldn’t even go down in that fight if you have a competent team.

Goldwise, it might not cost anything, no. But karma isn’t exactly as easy to obtain as it once was either, now is it? Not to mention my karma is also being saved for more important things like my Legendary.

I adapt to the fight via my own personal skill. I don’t rely on gear to make up for my mistakes. You could do this fight entirely naked if need be and still survive. That’s how easy it is to pay attention and not get yourself killed.
I’ll remember not to use my warbanners and stuff the next time I see a ‘tough guy’ PVT though. Clearly you won’t need it. As all zerkers are good for his binding #1.

So you will punish the entire map because you are in zerker gear? Glad you aren’t on my server or if you are, can’t get into the main map.

mallas.9836:

So you will punish the entire map because you are in zerker gear? Glad you aren’t on my server or if you are, can’t get into the main map.

Punish? How so? My damage is the exact same if it would be PVT gear. Only difference is, I’m also more useful during defense phases. A living zerker is better than a dead PVT, hands down.

Talonblaze.3175:

mallas.9836:

So you will punish the entire map because you are in zerker gear? Glad you aren’t on my server or if you are, can’t get into the main map.

Punish? How so? My damage is the exact same if it would be PVT gear. Only difference is, I’m also more useful during defense phases. A living zerker is better than a dead PVT, hands down.

not using warbanner because you are angry at PTV people asking you to defend turrets. You do know that when you are dead you aren’t dpsing or warbannering anyways?

mallas.9836:

not using warbanner because you are angry at PTV people asking you to defend turrets. You do know that when you are dead you aren’t dpsing or warbannering anyways?

I obviously wasn’t serious about that. It was mostly in response to your pvt issues of not even requiring it by the sounds of how oh so useful your stat is.
Guess what? I’m not dying. The only way anyone would die in this fight is from the Champ grub and even your PVT gear wouldn’t matter much there.
I’m not losing DPS, because I don’t let my lack of awareness be my downfall. I keep my 25 stacks of bloodlust because I make sure I don’t go down and even have enough room to pick up those who do screw up.
Endure Pain, Dolyak Signet and Shake if Off with Warbanner is all you need as a warrior. Regardless of stat type.

I am much more irritated by the fact that conditions are made 95% useless.

Berserker has always been the best option for dungeons, why is it not okay that something else is the better option for world bosses?

The bigger issue here, is builds that rely on crit, don’t work!
As it stands. Power + some defense is ONLY happy build here.

Condi’s – no.
Crit proc’s – no.
Heals/Support – almost, tho got to fight to do enough dam to get loot.
Power + Crit Dam Builds – almost, tho 2 of 3 stats pointless.

If you want adress game balance affecting design oversights, fixing conditions is more important to making constructs critable, if you ask me. At any rate this has been the case since forever, its not really a topic just for this encounter, or subforum.

ThiBash.5634:

Morsus.5106:

Well, Berserker builds are probably the most OP specialization in the game, so it’s nice to see the Soldiers and Knights get a chance to shine

You can’t crit, so why would Knight’s shine?

And more importantly, how’s replacing one top set with another a good thing? It’d be much nicer if you could play anything and be just as viable in terms of usefulness.

Because they can take more damage in the fight, so they won’t need to be rezzed constantly. And it’s not a “good thing” it’s a better thing. It’s better to have one top stat for one thing and one top stat for another than to have one top stat for everything. It’d be best if everything was balanced throughout the game, but that’s not the case, so at least it’s an improvement.

Not allowing crits is to balance how much damage the bosses can take, remember we want them made on a tight timer to allow for exciting dps races. If they allowed crits it would be a nightmare to give a decent estimation on kill time and thus balance enrage timer. (Remember its open world) The condi issues are another matter though I think they need fixed.

There will be more of these “structure” bosses to come – get a set of PVT armour!

Large bosses, such as Tequatl and the other dragons are objects. Game mechanics dictate you can’t crit objects.

I accept the argument about PVP bleed issues but not about PVE based combat. In PVE combat damage inflicted by a player can be worked out the the players computer and just relay that to the server. The same can trivially work with all forms of damage be it bleeds, burning normal attacks, crits and area based attacks. This would also allow for more than one burning effect on the boss (if it was wanted). Then you can just have a 25 bleeds player cap and show how many total bleeds are on him (updating every second from all but your own pc which updates your bleeds in real time.

This solution feels so easy to impliment I don’t understand why it hasn’t been done. Especially since this mean many builds are useless in world boss fights to the point of afk’ing deals only slightly less damage than actually fighting…

Bweaty.9187:

The bigger issue here, is builds that rely on crit, don’t work!
As it stands. Power + some defense is ONLY happy build here.

Condi’s – no.
Crit proc’s – no.
Heals/Support – almost, tho got to fight to do enough dam to get loot.
Power + Crit Dam Builds – almost, tho 2 of 3 stats pointless.

You forgot one thing, boon duration. Specifically on the turret operators. Altho that’s less to do with armor itself and more everything else (food/traits/runes/platinum doubloons). Giver’s armor is pretty bad.