Guild Wars 2

Except on lyssa it doesn’t fail and all you have to do is retake the other 3 spots and just retry. But yes I do agree timers are bad for the game.

I also agree! The timers need to go.

These timers don’t make it easy, but I think 15 minutes is too short.

Tequatl without timers would be fun. Because of the prospect of actually being able to finish it, people will be motivated to guide and lead. As a result it will be done faster. If the group wants to be mindless, it pays its price with time. If you want to promote the teamwork, saving 15 minutes or more on that fight would be a great incentive.

I think the timer needs to be raised…. But to remove them completely is wrong… its like saying here you can keep failing but don’t worry you won’t truly ever fail… You can keep doing it and with time it will die… There is no risk of the server failing so yes up the times… But do not remove them, if your group can’t do them get better at how you play the game.

Would you rather fail because all 6 Hylek turrets were destroyed or because of some arbitrary timer?

Timers are bad for people who can’t coordinate or learn from mistakes.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Timers are bad for people who can’t coordinate or learn from mistakes.

That may apply to a (semi-) closed environment, but not in a free for all world event, where each time the participants are completely different.

Sungam.9204:

Would you rather fail because all 6 Hylek turrets were destroyed or because of some arbitrary timer?

Because of some arbitrary timer.

Rodane.1062:

I think the timer needs to be raised…. But to remove them completely is wrong… its like saying here you can keep failing but don’t worry you won’t truly ever fail… You can keep doing it and with time it will die… There is no risk of the server failing so yes up the times… But do not remove them, if your group can’t do them get better at how you play the game.

You miss my point. I am asking for timers to be removed in place of actual, meaningful failure mechanics, not just “uh oh time’s up byyyeeeeee”. How Lyssa works (although she just resets, doesn’t literally fail) is the most realistic example I can use right now to promote that. Why not, instead of a timer, have mini-events required inside the tequatl event to keep the fight going, just like the seals? Or we have to keep the turrets in good repair? There’s so much Anet could have done with a little creativity and care, but the arbitrary and pointless “slap a timer on it and call it a mechanic” solution was not a solution at all.

All the timers are right now is a “you don’t have enough people” or “you don’t have enough DPS” arbitrary failure.

We can’t control how many show up.
We can’t control if half the players that show up are uplevels in greens/blues.
We can’t control if half of the players have condition damage builds, and have their damage negated by stacking limits.

So what you guys are saying is that you want Tequatl to indefinitely stick around until each server has the appropriate player count and gear setup? Then you want him to still stick around until you manage to halfheartedly get him to 0 HP… after 6 hours of continuous fighting?

There are already mechanics in place that punish players if they don’t protect the turrets or batteries. What it comes down to is that complainers are asking for more time, simply because their server is failing to cooperate in a efficient manner. This isn’t Anet’s problem to fix, since it’s up to the players to band together and figure things out.

Welcome to Tequatl: Tribulation mode.

There is nothing wrong with failable events.

But they are not required for everything. And a timer is not the best way.

+1’ed

After this disaster I’m convinced that they should just leave the raiding to their competitors.

The timer doesn’t even make sense (imo). The dragon lands, it attacks, and if it fails, it just says “why bother” and flies away? What?

Isn’t the dragon invading Sparkfly Fen? If the players can’t beat it, why would the dragon leave? I would assume that it would start taking over the area, bringing in more troops and reinforcements, and push farther into the area. Not just leave and say “here’s some rotmouths cuz you lost, trololol.”

He’s late for his pedicure, so he can only stop a short while, that’s why. More of a fly by visit than an actual invasion.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are already mechanics in place that punish players if they don’t protect the turrets or batteries. What it comes down to is that complainers are asking for more time, simply because their server is failing to cooperate in a efficient manner. This isn’t Anet’s problem to fix, since it’s up to the players to band together and figure things out.

Those are the mechanics that should cause failure. At least that makes sense, and is a more reasonable barrier than “you must have X DPS to win.” This type of time limit can work for an organized group of players that are used to playing together and communicate well, but it’s not suited for 80-100 random players. Trying to get a large group of people to listen to someone they don’t even know is not an easy task.

Even the only server that seems to have a fairly organized group, which I’d guess consists of at least a few decent sized guild/friend groups, has only managed to get Teq to about 25%.

mrstealth.6701:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are already mechanics in place that punish players if they don’t protect the turrets or batteries. What it comes down to is that complainers are asking for more time, simply because their server is failing to cooperate in a efficient manner. This isn’t Anet’s problem to fix, since it’s up to the players to band together and figure things out.

Those are the mechanics that should cause failure. At least that makes sense, and is a more reasonable barrier than “you must have X DPS to win.” This type of time limit can work for an organized group of players that are used to playing together and communicate well, but it’s not suited for 80-100 random players. Trying to get a large group of people to listen to someone they don’t even know is not an easy task.

Even the only server that seems to have a fairly organized group, which I’d guess consists of at least a few decent sized guild/friend groups, has only managed to get Teq to about 25%.

Got him down to 1% now…

I suspect the timers are SUPPOSED to be so that all servers (and overflows) can be coordinated together rather than being staggered all over the clock.

I’m not sure if that even works, or if its even necessary, though.

mrstealth.6701:

All the timers are right now is a “you don’t have enough people” or “you don’t have enough DPS” arbitrary failure.

We can’t control how many show up.
We can’t control if half the players that show up are uplevels in greens/blues.
We can’t control if half of the players have condition damage builds, and have their damage negated by stacking limits.

Bump, bump, bump, bump.

This applies to every single world event that “fails”.

Timers are an issue that the devs have dead wrong.

This one event is supposed to test organization and group communication. I’m not sure that’s possible without a timer. I don’t mind.

Anet loves their DPS checks.

I somewhat agree. I think it would be interesting if there was some sort of objective that would cause failure rather than time. Perhaps give the megalaser health and have Tequatl or risen attack it. Once its destroyed then the event fails. Would also be nice if there was a way to repair the laser. Like at 50% Teq flys off and we get a chance to repair. I love that there is a chance for failure now. Makes fighting feel a lot more meaningful.

Wraith.8920:

This one event is supposed to test organization and group communication. I’m not sure that’s possible without a timer. I don’t mind.

Yes, it’s possible without a timer. A timer is, quite simply, the laziest and most straightforward approach Anet could have taken to test these things. I’m reminded of their “slap a 1g bonus on all dungeon paths except AC and arah” approach to bonus dungeon chests.

Once again, I’ll defer this one to Lyssa. Frankly, her battle is how I feel world bosses should work. The main boss, 3 objectives to capture and hold; it requires co-ordination and there’s no clock necessary.

Timers are amazing for bugged events, when the timer is longer than anyone could take to complete it.

Instead of putting reset timers on bugged events, they introduce timers to events that don’t need them. Why?

The timer is nothing but a way to punish players, pure and simple. If you don’t work hard to kick everyone who isn’t in your guild out of the map, you lose.

lesliejb.3615:

Once again, I’ll defer this one to Lyssa. Frankly, her battle is how I feel world bosses should work. The main boss, 3 objectives to capture and hold; it requires co-ordination and there’s no clock necessary.

So basically, you’re asking for Easy Mode? Because Lyssa caps aren’t the hardest thing in the world.

Danigar.3795:

I somewhat agree. I think it would be interesting if there was some sort of objective that would cause failure rather than time. Perhaps give the megalaser health and have Tequatl or risen attack it. Once its destroyed then the event fails. Would also be nice if there was a way to repair the laser. Like at 50% Teq flys off and we get a chance to repair. I love that there is a chance for failure now. Makes fighting feel a lot more meaningful.

Is it really “meaningful”? You can easily tell within the first 2-3 minutes if your instance is even capable of completing the event. Five minutes to determine if you’re even going to hit the first chest within 15.

I agree/ disagree with the timer removal. Simply because it will no longer add challenge to the event, and failure wont happen unless the turrets are destroyed. Now the opposite… increase time: You cant simply expect everyone in the map on teq to bring dps, let alone we mow him down fast enough in 15mins. BG did it kudos to them but not all the servers are the same… it could use a slight increase…. Mix opinion here

the timer pauses every 25%

I read a suggestion earlier saying that the timer should determine the amount of reward you get. <15min you this and this and that. <20 min you get this and that. <30min you just get that. If you can’t beat him in 30 you fail.

emikochan.8504:

the timer pauses every 25%

That’s… uhh… about 10% of what happens every 25%, sure.

I say either increase the time limit to 20-25 minutes or give the Megalaser a life bar, because on E-bay, when there was only like 5 minutes left, and we only got him to about 76%, half our “zerg” just up and left us. There was no point in trying til it was out of time. Most people just thought it was better to just wait til next spawn window and go farm champs or kill other weaker world bosses like SB/Maw/Golem2/Fire Elemental, than to waste time pounding away when there was no possible way of dropping him with 5 minutes left.

Fun raid, but for the time limit, it doesn’t seem to fit in open world, especially in such a low level area where our stats get nerfed to fit the surroundings. Level 80 and level 66 have a really big difference in damage.

mmmm at 16min the dragon is bored to walk over corpses and kill all ppl on map with his powerfull poisoned breath of wrath.

here is your mechanic ^^

u dont need a mechanic u need more Imagination, try classic RPG games for a while.

Ooh. Events that can actually fail.

The HORROR!

I’m really ashamed what the gaming world has become…

Tom Gore.4035:

Ooh. Events that can actually fail.

The HORROR!

I’m really ashamed what the gaming world has become…

Scarlet invasions are failed roughly 95% of the time, as are tonnes of other events.

It only takes one or two people out of a hundred to cause this event to fail.

RvLeshrac.2673:

Tom Gore.4035:

Ooh. Events that can actually fail.

The HORROR!

I’m really ashamed what the gaming world has become…

Scarlet invasions are failed roughly 95% of the time, as are tonnes of other events.

It only takes one or two people out of a hundred to cause this event to fail.

We all know the reason Scarlet invasions fail. It has to do with the fact that succeeding gives less rewards than farming (and failing).

Smooth Penguin.5294:

lesliejb.3615:

Once again, I’ll defer this one to Lyssa. Frankly, her battle is how I feel world bosses should work. The main boss, 3 objectives to capture and hold; it requires co-ordination and there’s no clock necessary.

So basically, you’re asking for Easy Mode? Because Lyssa caps aren’t the hardest thing in the world.

I’m fairly sure he’s referring to the mechanic that causes a failure/reset, not the actual difficulty of the event. It’s a much better system than the boss that is winning the fight (seeing that he usually has 75% HP or more) just leaving for no reason. They could increase the difficulty of the turret defense, and have Teq put up walls and fully heal if all turrets are destroyed.

Anyway, there is more to video game difficulty than “afk easy” and “100 slot TS required.” There is such a thing as being too hard, and wanting that toned down is in no way asking for an “easy mode”. What is needed is something in between, if the latter ends up remaining the standard for what it takes to down Teq.

The real issue isn’t that they necessarily have timers, but in how they are implemented into the events.

In the case of Tequatl, what they should have done was have a somewhat generous timer for the opening of the fight until you get Tequatl down to, for example, 75% health. After reaching that initial damage race the players should have a chance to use the siege weapons to “severely injure” Tequatl, thus removing his ability to escape.

They could also use a modified version of this and have the players be able to “reset” the timer at certain health intervals by severely injuring Teq (I personally prefer this one, as it can require players to be actively involved in the event).

The problem I always had with the Dragons had nothing to really to do the difficulty level (although I do love a skill based challenge, dps races are just boring as hell when it essentially forces players into a “speed run” format or mentality); the issue I always had with the dragons was the lack of involvement in their events.

• Waves of enemies, requiring groups of players to run “crowd control”: Good
• Support elements playing important roles (i.e. the turrets for control, clearing aoe fields, etc.): Good
• Time gates that have some sort of mechanic that allows players to intervene and interrupt an enemy “escaping”: Good

These kinds of things require players to be alert and active and make things more fun as well as challenging (unless really watered out, you can’t just be lazy with these types of things).

• Straight up time gates: Very, very bad idea

A straight forward time gate for events like these, especially ones like Teq, are just about the laziest, most uncreative, and boring thing you can do; not to mention it just kills any sort of fun or “real” challenge as it just waters the event down to a straight up dps race with just straight up zerging the event to win. Boring.

I like it when events are difficult enough and/or just dynamic enough that they can be failed, but failing based on a timer that forces it into a massive zerg rush on the scale greater than anything yet seen in the game so far is just the opposite of what needs to be done.

Force the players to divide up to work at different parts of an event; control factors, support functions, etc. and make these other elements enough of a hazard that if ignored will overwhelm the players to failure.

keep the timers, learn to be better and not braindead failures. timers arent a dps check, theyre a zombie check.

RvLeshrac.2673:

Danigar.3795:

I somewhat agree. I think it would be interesting if there was some sort of objective that would cause failure rather than time. Perhaps give the megalaser health and have Tequatl or risen attack it. Once its destroyed then the event fails. Would also be nice if there was a way to repair the laser. Like at 50% Teq flys off and we get a chance to repair. I love that there is a chance for failure now. Makes fighting feel a lot more meaningful.

Is it really “meaningful”? You can easily tell within the first 2-3 minutes if your instance is even capable of completing the event. Five minutes to determine if you’re even going to hit the first chest within 15.

It took Blackgate nearly half the timer to get him to 75% and they completed it with 2 minutes left. Sounds like you are giving up too easily. And yes, its still much more meaningful then standing there auto attacking until you get your free reward.

What I’m trying to figure out is how this in any way relates to Mario Kart =/
I feel cheated by the topic.

insanemaniac.2456:

keep the timers, learn to be better and not braindead failures. timers arent a dps check, theyre a zombie check.

Isn’t it both? If you don’t have the DPS from your combined group, you don’t do damage in time, and you fail. Zombie or not, you still need the DPS. And either way, I can only ‘check’ myself and those I’m partied with. We don’t have any control over the other 95 random people running around the map.

lokone.3597:

mmmm at 16min the dragon is bored to walk over corpses and kill all ppl on map with his powerfull poisoned breath of wrath.

here is your mechanic ^^

u dont need a mechanic u need more Imagination, try classic RPG games for a while.

Wow how creative, so you’re telling us Tequatl is just lazy or he’s done eating humans so he flies away giving up the invasion ? Great imagination you got there.

Sollith.3502:

The real issue isn’t that they necessarily have timers, but in how they are implemented into the events.

In the case of Tequatl, what they should have done was have a somewhat generous timer for the opening of the fight until you get Tequatl down to, for example, 75% health. After reaching that initial damage race the players should have a chance to use the siege weapons to “severely injure” Tequatl, thus removing his ability to escape.

They could also use a modified version of this and have the players be able to “reset” the timer at certain health intervals by severely injuring Teq (I personally prefer this one, as it can require players to be actively involved in the event).

The problem I always had with the Dragons had nothing to really to do the difficulty level (although I do love a skill based challenge, dps races are just boring as hell when it essentially forces players into a “speed run” format or mentality); the issue I always had with the dragons was the lack of involvement in their events.

I completely agree! I think your suggestions are really something which would make the boss not necessarily loads easier but more realistic and enjoyable. I sincerely hope something like this is implemented!

Madora.9340:

These timers don’t make it easy, but I think 15 minutes is too short.

If I got kicked out of every dungeon after 15 minutes…. I’d go insane.

The failure conditions shouldn’t be timers but specific events that occur in the fight. Such as the Megalaser batteries being destoryed or the hyleks turrets being destoryed. This MAKES sense because the fight is all about these two mechanics, a 15-min timer is… stupid. It doesn’t fit with the fight at all.

“Oh hai guys I’m here to kill ya all with ma undead minions and take over the region.”
15mins later
“Oh Snap, I forgot my favourite champion maggot minion…. brb. I’ll give ya some fisheads to play with while you wait.”
Disappaears

Me: So wait, he came here to show off his might or actually do what he claimed?
Guildie: No idea, atleast the Sleeper made sense when we did it eh?

The timer is anti-fun and needs to go, the conditions for failure should somehow be in relation to the mechanics of the fight.

I hate losing a fight due to basically doing nothing wrong. Cause that’s what a timer is. You could have a large group of people coordinating their strategy quite well, and still lose due to the timer. When Tequatl has like 10% health left, he should not be able to fly off and make you fail the event. That’s just lame.

/le sigh

The “timer” separates the good, organized players from the unorganized, let’s zerg rush the target players. This boss is only for the elite.

I would suggest sticking to Queensdale. The Shadow Behemoth is still around, with a new 15 minute timer too. I think he’ll be much more to your liking.