Guild Wars 2

Exosferatu.2961:

This is actually useful when you have to switch gears and traits while in the middle of Fractal and if you’re the instance owner you can’t leave because the dungeon will reset. Or you can never leave an area (like in Teq or the next revamped bosses) because if you did, you will end up in an overflow.

That is an outright lie, at least for fractals, you can go to the character select screen and then back to LA and talk to the trait trainer to retrain traits. I think for dungeons you can still go straight to wvw then character select menu and then back to the dungeon.

I have to agree this is a low blow.

What happened to ‘templates’ with traits & gear?

Rift stole heaps of your cool game ideas, and implemented them badly.
Take ‘roles’ from rift, tie in your gear sets so they don’t take up bag space!

Also there tower defense, with tweaks to make it spawn more depending on how many turrets you got built.

Don’t copy there ‘badly coded shortcuts’ and rip off the customers with the gem shop philosophy!

The only thing I hate about this is that they once again went with the ugly Asura aesthetic like many other consumables have.

I’m just dissapointed in this item. Might as well just stop the developing of templates in pve. I don’t feel like ‘this build is better here and there, that one is’. The only reason might be to switch wvw with pve. The templates change on the go would be awesome for simply finding more builds you personally like instead of just one build you are ok with, without having to run back to a town to change traits a bit.

Link.6157:

I’m just dissapointed in this item. Might as well just stop the developing of templates in pve. I don’t feel like ‘this build is better here and there, that one is’. The only reason might be to switch wvw with pve. The templates change on the go would be awesome for simply finding more builds you personally like instead of just one build you are ok with, without having to run back to a town to change traits a bit.

Yeah agree it would be awesome when you trying lot of new builds not always be forced to run back to town,relay hope they will make it a game feature or a new item that you can use infinity.

I really miss the ability of switching both skill template and gear with one button…they have that in this other well known MMO you know, had it for years there…

Wiz.1543:

Endless trait respec for 800 gems- I am in!
Limited use ,nope sorry going to skip it.

I’m the same with all the costumes and armour they have in there. In GW1 I bought every single costume. In this game they are a one use only item so have bought zilch.

Since this is one of the features I and many others loved about Guild Wars it feels wrong to have to pay for it so I’ll be skipping this too. Just yet another feature that GW1 blows GW2 out of the water with for me.

“Takes very little of what you loved about Guild Wars and tries to come up with ways to charge you for the parts you get.” is how that quote should go.

I’m not sure if it has been mentioned here already but there have been multiple suggestions to add an item that operates similar to the infinite salvage kit, wherein you reset your traits and 3.5s is automatically removed from your inventory. I think this is a much better solution that a 70 gem one time use consumable.

Maybe there can be some kind of push to make this a thing?

I think this is a ridiculous thing to get upset about. It’s a convenience item — not at all necessary, but handy at times for people who don’t mind throwing money at the game reasonably often to make it free for everyone else. Seems like the perfect thing to put in the gem store to me. Just like repair canisters. Yes — you can go and repair lots of places, and that’s a LOT cheaper. But if you wanna use money to be lazy, you can. And you can support the game in the process.

I saw this in the shop and just laughed.

Why does this item suddenly mean there won’t be templates? If anything templates would help it sell more… Not to mention there’s this mythical land called sPvP where respecs and gear are free and templates would be much more useful in than PvE because you actually change your build more…

RLHawk.3290:

I think this is a ridiculous thing to get upset about. It’s a convenience item — not at all necessary, but handy at times for people who don’t mind throwing money at the game reasonably often to make it free for everyone else. Seems like the perfect thing to put in the gem store to me. Just like repair canisters. Yes — you can go and repair lots of places, and that’s a LOT cheaper. But if you wanna use money to be lazy, you can. And you can support the game in the process.

I’m perfectly willing to spend money on the game. I’ve bought items which are just for convenience (e.g. unlimited use gathering tools) — that seemed fine with me. But traits and builds are a core part of the game; I am not OK with needing to spend money on this. I can accept a cost in silver as a way to limit inflation, but not a cost in gems.

What would you think if they made map travel cost gems rather than gold (silver)? I mean, that’s just a convenience, right? You could spend all your time playing running from one map to another … but it wouldn’t be much fun.

Their choice to make this a paid item tells me about their priorities, and it makes me sad. Anet can make the parts of the game I find interesting more tedious or expensive … and I’ll have less fun when I play the game. It’s their choice — just not really a good business decision. (Right now I’m taking a break from playing; this isn’t the main reason, but it gives me more reason not to come back.)

linuxotaku.4731:

RLHawk.3290:

I think this is a ridiculous thing to get upset about. It’s a convenience item — not at all necessary, but handy at times for people who don’t mind throwing money at the game reasonably often to make it free for everyone else. Seems like the perfect thing to put in the gem store to me. Just like repair canisters. Yes — you can go and repair lots of places, and that’s a LOT cheaper. But if you wanna use money to be lazy, you can. And you can support the game in the process.

I’m perfectly willing to spend money on the game. I’ve bought items which are just for convenience (e.g. unlimited use gathering tools) — that seemed fine with me. But traits and builds are a core part of the game; I am not OK with needing to spend money on this. I can accept a cost in silver as a way to limit inflation, but not a cost in gems.

What would you think if they made map travel cost gems rather than gold (silver)? I mean, that’s just a convenience, right? You could spend all your time playing running from one map to another … but it wouldn’t be much fun.

Their choice to make this a paid item tells me about their priorities, and it makes me sad. Anet can make the parts of the game I find interesting more tedious or expensive … and I’ll have less fun when I play the game. It’s their choice — just not really a good business decision. (Right now I’m taking a break from playing; this isn’t the main reason, but it gives me more reason not to come back.)

You’re talking as if they have somehow limited how you used to always re-trait. You /don’t/ need to spend money on it. The silver cost remains the same as ever. If they REPLACED map travel cost with gem cost, then yeah, I’d be upset. If they added a way to use gems as an alternative to that cost, like an item that teleported you to a specific waypoint when you used it, then I’d have absolutely no problem with that.

They have NOT made anything MORE tedious at all though. Instead they added something you can spend some money on for relatively negligible convenience and thereby support the game. I think that’s awesome, and shows that their priorities are in the right place.

RLHawk.3290:

You’re talking as if they have somehow limited how you used to always re-trait. You /don’t/ need to spend money on it. The silver cost remains the same as ever. If they REPLACED map travel cost with gem cost, then yeah, I’d be upset. If they added a way to use gems as an alternative to that cost, like an item that teleported you to a specific waypoint when you used it, then I’d have absolutely no problem with that.

They have NOT made anything MORE tedious at all though. Instead they added something you can spend some money on for relatively negligible convenience and thereby support the game. I think that’s awesome, and shows that their priorities are in the right place.

You think it’s awesome? I guess that means you’ll be buying them? There is no way I will; and this offering makes me less likely to buy gems from them in the future. I spent a lot of time and money, but it was fun at the time.

A consumable for trait resets doesn’t make the game more tedious — but it does seem to kill the hope I had that it’d get better.

Personally — I hate being forced to make a choice between wasting money and wasting time — having that decision thrust into my face is a constant irritant. Previously it wasn’t a choice as they didn’t have functionality for resetting traits in the field; now that they do, I either have to pretend that this doesn’t exist or stew.

My objection to this is that — based on my personal response — I think it’s a poor business decision. If you or others respond by spending cash to buy these and are happy to have them in the gem store, then perhaps I’m wrong — and if that’s the case, have fun.

But I get the impression that you’re probably defending this offering out of loyalty, rather than happiness at seeing this in the gem store. If that’s the case, consider that my comments might be sincere.

maybe with some new dungeons hardmode coming soon, you will need to change traits for every boss.

This game needs to be more tactical in how we use our builds. “Instant Trait Reset” through a one time use gem store item does not do this.

Anet needs to realize that there is a untapped market of potential players who want a more tactical fantasy mmo.

linuxotaku.4731:

RLHawk.3290:

You’re talking as if they have somehow limited how you used to always re-trait. You /don’t/ need to spend money on it. The silver cost remains the same as ever. If they REPLACED map travel cost with gem cost, then yeah, I’d be upset. If they added a way to use gems as an alternative to that cost, like an item that teleported you to a specific waypoint when you used it, then I’d have absolutely no problem with that.

They have NOT made anything MORE tedious at all though. Instead they added something you can spend some money on for relatively negligible convenience and thereby support the game. I think that’s awesome, and shows that their priorities are in the right place.

You think it’s awesome? I guess that means you’ll be buying them? There is no way I will; and this offering makes me less likely to buy gems from them in the future. I spent a lot of time and money, but it was fun at the time.

A consumable for trait resets doesn’t make the game more tedious — but it does seem to kill the hope I had that it’d get better.

Personally — I hate being forced to make a choice between wasting money and wasting time — having that decision thrust into my face is a constant irritant. Previously it wasn’t a choice as they didn’t have functionality for resetting traits in the field; now that they do, I either have to pretend that this doesn’t exist or stew.

My objection to this is that — based on my personal response — I think it’s a poor business decision. If you or others respond by spending cash to buy these and are happy to have them in the gem store, then perhaps I’m wrong — and if that’s the case, have fun.

But I get the impression that you’re probably defending this offering out of loyalty, rather than happiness at seeing this in the gem store. If that’s the case, consider that my comments might be sincere.

You wouldn’t believe the lengths people go on defending this sort of business practice. A well written reply, ought to be replied by someone who will just dismiss your opinion once again with a simple convenience argument that practically holds no merit.

“I hate to be made to choose between wasting time and wasting money.”

Without quoting anyone in particular, this seems to be a common sentiment about the retrait items, and I think it’s a valid question for certain mechanics. In this case, however, I think it overlooks the fact that we’re only just now getting the retrait item.

If real-money retrait items were factored into the design of the core gameplay, that would have been bad, but…don’t you think we would have gotten them a heck of a lot sooner?

We’ve had lots of convenience items available from day one, so for us to be getting a retrait item a year later says to me that either someone was sitting around, somewhat recently, and thought, “Hey, that would make a handy item!” or else they had this idea, factored into the core gameplay mechanics, designed to make them money, and then sat it on for a year.

Which of these sounds more likely?

linuxotaku.4731:

You think it’s awesome? I guess that means you’ll be buying them? There is no way I will; and this offering makes me less likely to buy gems from them in the future. I spent a lot of time and money, but it was fun at the time.

A consumable for trait resets doesn’t make the game more tedious — but it does seem to kill the hope I had that it’d get better.

Personally — I hate being forced to make a choice between wasting money and wasting time — having that decision thrust into my face is a constant irritant. Previously it wasn’t a choice as they didn’t have functionality for resetting traits in the field; now that they do, I either have to pretend that this doesn’t exist or stew.

My objection to this is that — based on my personal response — I think it’s a poor business decision. If you or others respond by spending cash to buy these and are happy to have them in the gem store, then perhaps I’m wrong — and if that’s the case, have fun.

But I get the impression that you’re probably defending this offering out of loyalty, rather than happiness at seeing this in the gem store. If that’s the case, consider that my comments might be sincere.

Hehe. Perhaps I am defending it out of loyalty. So far I haven’t bought any. I have bought several revive orbs and some repair canisters before. I can see picking some of these up from time to time if I’m wanting to re-trait in the middle of a failing dungeon run and have a few gems leftover from buying other stuff.

But here’s my point of view — as far as deciding rather to spend time or money on something, are not most of the items on there somewhat similar? All boosters, picks, salvage kits, etc. Even pack space is primarily bought to save time — as a convenience.

Now, Gasoline.2560, above, argues that the convenience argument holds no merit, but I would disagree. I tend to think that convenience items are really the main way that microtransaction funded games can/should work. If you sell power, you divide the community between paying and non-paying players, which is bad. I think everyone agrees on that. But if you sell purely aesthetic stuff, then either you don’t provide a whole lot of incentive to buy anything, thereby not funding your game, OR, you make the very best looking stuff pay only. Like if legendaries were only obtainable in gem store. And by doing that, you exclude top content from non-paying players. I recognize that GW2 has aesthetic items in the cash shop, and I personally have never bought any. I don’t really mind them though, because they don’t hurt me and I don’t feel like I’m missing out on any content of value because of it. The best looking items (though admittedly this is just personal preference) are the items obtained through playing, not paying.

But with convenience items, I feel like you can provide a very good balance of incentive and choice. Incentive, because the convenience is very nice, and time is valuable. But also choice, because it’s not necessary and the game is still just as fun without it.

If your argument is not against any of that and is instead simply that you should be able to re-trait from anywhere regardless, then that’s not really a complaint about the item, but rather a complaint about how traits/builds work.
I think wanting to re-trait any time freely is a valid suggestion and I can kinda see both sides of it myself. On the one hand, I feel like your traits are your build, and should maybe be even more locked in, since skills are what you can freely change about. On the other hand, since it is such a minor deal to change your build, why not just make it no deal at all? But to me, that’s not really related to having this item in the game.

Gasoline.2570:

You wouldn’t believe the lengths people go on defending this sort of business practice. A well written reply, ought to be replied by someone who will just dismiss your opinion once again with a simple convenience argument that practically holds no merit.

I do agree that linuxotaku.4731’s reply was well written and respectable, and appreciate him taking the time to do that. I apologize that my argument may have been somewhat dismissive. That was not my intent, though re-reading it I can see how it may have come across that way. Sorry. I would ask though that you read what I wrote above about the “convenience argument” and let me know what you think. As a developer who hopes to one day develop games, I’m truly interested in any better ways of doing things. But so far the GW2 model is really the best I’ve seen.

RLHawk.3290:

If your argument is not against any of that and is instead simply that you should be able to re-trait from anywhere regardless, then that’s not really a complaint about the item, but rather a complaint about how traits/builds work.
I think wanting to re-trait any time freely is a valid suggestion and I can kinda see both sides of it myself. On the one hand, I feel like your traits are your build, and should maybe be even more locked in, since skills are what you can freely change about. On the other hand, since it is such a minor deal to change your build, why not just make it no deal at all? But to me, that’s not really related to having this item in the game

It gets to one a question that I feel is at the heart of video games: How much filler/slow-down is fun?

Take XP boosters. Everyone likes to get XP and everyone likes to level up, so it’s easy to understand people liking XP boosters, whether paid for or free. That’s why you occasionally earn them in game, they’re in the birthday chest, etc. If you pay for boosters, you’re objectively leveling up faster than other players…but are you having more fun? If you’re having more fun, shouldn’t the game company just boost XP for everyone, so everyone has more fun?

That sounds reasonable; there’s a reason “grind” has such negative connotations. A cynical onlooker would say that every non-boosted player is being slowed down in order to encourage players to buy boosters. That’s one of the major frequent criticisms of free to play games and of cash stores, even in non-free games like GW2, so it’s a warranted concern. No one likes to have their time wasted.

That said, up until the recent addition of the retrait item, there wasn’t any way for the developer to make money off the inconvenience of resetting traits, so it doesn’t seem likely that the system was developed with the cash shop in mind.

Was it just a poor design decision to make players hunt down trait trainers, or does that inconvenience serve another purpose, like strengthening player-build identities and giving a sense of weight to decisions and the trait system?

I don’t think either way of handling traits (free and convenient, nominal fee and slightly inconvenient) is inherently better than the other. They both have their pros and cons, and will appeal to different people. Obviously, someone, or rather multiple people, designing the game thought the pros were worth the cons here, because they went with the system we have. There’s definitely going to be a portion of the player base who disagrees, but they can’t please everyone.

Gnat.9405:

I’m not sure if it has been mentioned here already but there have been multiple suggestions to add an item that operates similar to the infinite salvage kit, wherein you reset your traits and 3.5s is automatically removed from your inventory. I think this is a much better solution that a 70 gem one time use consumable.

Maybe there can be some kind of push to make this a thing?

^ this. make it like this. it is a great idea.

Redenaz.8631:

It gets to one a question that I feel is at the heart of video games: How much filler/slow-down is fun?

Take XP boosters. Everyone likes to get XP and everyone likes to level up, so it’s easy to understand people liking XP boosters, whether paid for or free. That’s why you occasionally earn them in game, they’re in the birthday chest, etc. If you pay for boosters, you’re objectively leveling up faster than other players…but are you having more fun? If you’re having more fun, shouldn’t the game company just boost XP for everyone, so everyone has more fun?

That sounds reasonable; there’s a reason “grind” has such negative connotations. A cynical onlooker would say that every non-boosted player is being slowed down in order to encourage players to buy boosters. That’s one of the major frequent criticisms of free to play games and of cash stores, even in non-free games like GW2, so it’s a warranted concern. No one likes to have their time wasted.

That said, up until the recent addition of the retrait item, there wasn’t any way for the developer to make money off the inconvenience of resetting traits, so it doesn’t seem likely that the system was developed with the cash shop in mind.

Was it just a poor design decision to make players hunt down trait trainers, or does that inconvenience serve another purpose, like strengthening player-build identities and giving a sense of weight to decisions and the trait system?

I don’t think either way of handling traits (free and convenient, nominal fee and slightly inconvenient) is inherently better than the other. They both have their pros and cons, and will appeal to different people. Obviously, someone, or rather multiple people, designing the game thought the pros were worth the cons here, because they went with the system we have. There’s definitely going to be a portion of the player base who disagrees, but they can’t please everyone.

This is an awesome post!! I really enjoy thinking about stuff like this.

One of the interesting things about the discussion of “how much slow-down is fun” is that what we really want often isn’t what we think we want. And it varies from player to player. But take for example giving yourself items through cheat codes in a game. If the game is good, there’s usually something that you want that you don’t have yet. An option for some games might be to cheat to give yourself that item. But in doing so, you’re robbed of most of that items value — the journey it took to get there. But how much value comes from the time it took to get there vs. the end result itself varies a lot from player to player.

As another example, leveling to 80 in GW2 is quite easy compared to many games. To some that makes it pointless, to some it provides a perfect balance, and to others it still takes way to long. But what’s more interesting is that most people’s enjoyment or lack of enjoyment of that experience can change depending on how they’re looking at it.

Right. I like a lot of games that are low on filler (Braid, LIMBO— Okay, I have a thing for 2D platformers,) but when I power-leveled my third character through crafting, I found it less satisfying than I did playing the other two straight. With alt #4, I’m more or less using crafting as a leveling supplement to get me from one story step to the next if I’ve completed an area but can’t yet hack it in the next-tiered area.

I’ll try not to say too much more on the ups and downs of XP in RPGs, however, since I’m going to start to go off-topic if I do.

In the case of retrait items, I feel I’m actually happier being (gently) locked into my build. I can still change weapons and major traits on a situational basis, but if I wander into a situation where my current traits aren’t optimal, I’m discouraged from resetting them. I just have to cope the best I can, which creates a very organic added challenge/drama to gameplay.

I get why people who do a lot more varied content than I do, like those who switch between PvE and WvW, might want a template system, just like people don’t use the same template for PvP as they do for anything else. WvW can be awkward that way at times, in it’s unusual middle ground.

RLHawk.3290:

I think this is a ridiculous thing to get upset about. It’s a convenience item — not at all necessary, but handy at times for people who don’t mind throwing money at the game reasonably often to make it free for everyone else. Seems like the perfect thing to put in the gem store to me. Just like repair canisters. Yes — you can go and repair lots of places, and that’s a LOT cheaper. But if you wanna use money to be lazy, you can. And you can support the game in the process.

I already spent another $40 first week of this month alone.
They said, templates for traits & gear swaps would be coming. It’s one thing I’ve loved in other MMOs.
Per use, is just insulting. Even worse, is you still need a min to add new traits, swap gear around in your limited space bags. It’s hard enough to swap weapons & a few skills over, before group runs in and puts you in combat with next boss. No way I want to fight a hard boss, with half a set of wrong gear & no traits. Particularly not if it cost me real $!

Oh and they need to fix mini-pets. I don’t buy them obsessively like other games, cause they are a total pain constantly despawning.

They also got ‘skins’ right with the achievement ones. Move the gem shop, and living story rewards over to that! Really insulting we can work on living story achievement once per account, then only 1 toon get’s 1 skin. Especially as you got a perfect system for skins in pace!

As for “ridiculous thing”. Were not saying ANet are cat-holes & were never playing again. Were saying. This is lame. We want value for our money. Were happy to keep throwing it at the screen, even more than we do now. If you treat us right!

I’d rather pay 800gems to buy a perma template so i can swap my traits at will…. same should go with armour choice but that can be a bit too much to ask :P

The very existence of this item sort of squashes hopes for a build template saving system.

I don’t get people saying “if you don’t want it, don’t buy it”.
Why are they using a cheesy one-liner that doesn’t even make sense in order to defend something that’s obviously terribly wrong?

70 gems for skipping a few load screens (4?) and a max of like 8-10 s wp cost and the 3-ish s it costs to retrait?
70 gems are worthlike what? 3-4 gold?
It would be interesting to see how many of these are actually bought… I sure won’t buy any. If it was build-save-slots i could pay alot. If it was permanent I could also pay alot.
But this feels stupid and extremely overpriced and I think ANet or NCSoft, whichever it is, would gain alot more money by lowering the price significantly so that more people would buy it. Alternatively creating a permanent version or a build-save-function that is buyable with gems.

Mikuchan.7261:

70 gems for skipping a few load screens (4?) and a max of like 8-10 s wp cost and the 3-ish s it costs to retrait?
70 gems are worthlike what? 3-4 gold?

If using a retrait item saves you one minute of hassle, and you buy them in the 5-pack ($0.75 for each item,) that’s on par with working a single minute at a job that pays $45/hour. That’s a very high wage if a player is a student or just starting out, but if that’s the case, convenience items aren’t targeted at that player in the first place, who likely has more time to spare than money. Convenience items are targeted at busy professionals don’t have a lot of time to spare, and are happy to spend some change if it’ll help them make the most of their limited gaming time. That’s why convenience items are a terrible deal if you’re trading gold for them; if you have time to farm enough gold for that, you can probably spare a couple minutes to make a run to the bank/skill trainer/trading post/armor repair/etc.

If using a retrait stone saves you two minutes (which it might, if you’re in, say, a jumping puzzle, instanced area, a crowded server before a big event, etc.) then the wage at which which an equivalent amount of time spent working (two minutes) pays enough to cover the item ($0.75) drops by half, down to $22.5 . That’s not minimum wage, but that’s not outlandish, either, if you’re a young professional.

If anyone would like to see my more thorough write-up, with the math shown and more analysis, let me know. I was going to post it, but it’s, well, a little exhausting if you’re not interested in this kind of thing.

I’d pay 30s for an on-the-go-reset at most, but this thing is like four gold.

You serious?

I’d rather take a few minutes to map around than pay 4g or 70 gems. What kind of person would even pay 70 gems for this? That’s almost a dollar for a trait reset. I’m not paying that.

Maybe if it was 5 gems. Hell, I’d even pay a few hundred gems for a permanent one.

Apart from the fact it’s way too expensive to be useful, it’s also bad design to accommodate gem sales.

Good design = option to have several preset builds we can swap out when ooc, perhaps for a small fee if they insist.

Bad design = 1 use consumable item that we have to buy, and then manually reset traits that we have to remember every time, while our dungeon party patiently waits.

I hope not many people buy these, maybe that’ll force them to implement a proper way of resetting traits on the fly.

800 gems for an unlimited use item, then I’ll pay (though still sucks it would have to sit in my inventory, perhaps add it to the GUI would be much more friendly) less than that is a joke!

I’m still confused about what the big deal is. It’s no different than the other convenience items such as the craft station, bank, merchant, and trading post consumables. If you don’t like it then just don’t buy it.

I would prefer if Anet would simply try to get more money via paid content like mini expansions than these cash shop items which should be included features in the first place.

For instance, back in early Beta the gathering tools were unlimited use, then someone decided that they could milk people by making it consumable and down the line make it a gemstore item. There’s no way for me to continue with this train of thought without losing civility so I’ll cut myself off here.

Newman.6847:

Apart from the fact it’s way too expensive to be useful […]

Not if you’re a well-payed professional who makes $45+ an hour, or even $22.5/hour under certain circumstances. Then the time saved might be worth it to you. If you’re evaluating convenience items based on their cost in gold, it’s a safe bet that you’re not their target demographic in the first place.

Newman.6847:

Good design = option to have several preset builds we can swap out when ooc, perhaps for a small fee if they insist.

Bad design = 1 use consumable item that we have to buy, and then manually reset traits that we have to remember every time, while our dungeon party patiently waits.

I hope not many people buy these, maybe that’ll force them to implement a proper way of resetting traits on the fly.

They have never seemed to want to allow people to reset traits on the fly, or at least that sure didn’t sound like the plan back in February 2012:

Re-Specializing

After a character has spent their trait points, they can visit a trainer to reset their traits and refund their previously spent points for a small fee.

We realized that an important part of building a character is some sense of permanence. With this new system, you are flexible enough to change if you really want to, but you should still feel like the choices you made matter while you are out adventuring or slogging your way through a dungeon. In competitive PvP, you have a separately saved trait build and can respec free of charge.

I think it’s pretty clear that retrait items weren’t part of the plan back when the trait system was designed; whether or not it’s a good idea to allow people to bypass this design decision with an item, that’s a very small concession, while “swapping preset builds out of combat” would require a pretty dramatic shift in design direction. It’s not a clean cut “quality of life” change, it’s a specific decision about how the feel of the game and how much weight build choices have.

Which, in light of that, how terrible would the reaction be if they actually did introduce the ability to retrait anywhere for a one-time gem purchase? Then it would go from occasionally-used shortcut by the convenience item market (who, I cannot repeat this enough, buy this for cash, not gold,) to an expected, possibly even required (by elite dungeon runners, for example,) purchase, either through gold or cash. The limited usefulness of this item is what makes it an acceptable cash purchase, since it appeals to a relatively narrow portion of the playerbase, without the rest feeling like they need it or that it would be a good value for them.

Amlin.6041:

I would prefer if Anet would simply try to get more money via paid content like mini expansions than these cash shop items which should be included features in the first place.

For instance, back in early Beta the gathering tools were unlimited use, then someone decided that they could milk people by making it consumable and down the line make it a gemstore item. There’s no way for me to continue with this train of thought without losing civility so I’ll cut myself off here.

Yes it does feel like what’s happening is they purposefully made a lot of gameplay designs a hassle, just to later ask money for making it what it should have been in the first place.

It’s not cosmetic stuff anymore, it is convience taken away(literally, the 10 silver trait book) and then put back up for an insane fee – like we wouldn’t notice? Come on.

Im more concerned this is going to be a trend. Rather then making some QoL changes, they will charge for such features. Doesnt really bother me all that much, i dont do much pve and never really care much for switching my spec let alone on the fly.

But if they are making this a gem purchase, features like saving a build and swapping is going to be that much further away. Or cost you 800 gems to unlock 1 tab per character.

This is just a straight money grubbing cheap cash in. GW1 you could reset your traits anytime in town on the fly. FOR FREE!

Now I understand in this game being different as it is you need money sinks. And sure you can re-trait whatever spot of your traits you need to or just the whole thing if need be but honestly THIS? You want people to pay for something people used to do for free to begin with and instead of not being a lazy kitten and go to a town or outside in Queensdale and just purchase?

I can’t wait until they release the “skill build token” that lets you save and swap skill builds on the fly for a nice 300gems….

Redenaz.8631:

Not if you’re a well-payed professional who makes $45+ an hour, or even $22.5/hour under certain circumstances.

Just.. no. I do all right, money wise. But I don’t part with it because someone decided to cut out game features that should have been implemented in the first place, then wants to charge me for a rather bad solution for it. Having to reset traits every time manually, remembering them exactly and not having an option to undo misclicks is bad gui design, plain and simple; not to mention the item that allows this takes up inventory space and is rather expensive for a single use. You might find it cheap for real money, but.. if an option is useful I’d like to be able to use it often. Run different things every day and use several of these items every day would build up quickly. Which is exactly what they were aiming for, I guess.. But seriously, what’s next? 10 cents every time I want to use an AoE heal? I already paid for the game. Want me to pay for an expansion, fine. But don’t pretend it’s subscription-free and then have a thousand micro transactions that fill up gaps in missing features.

I wouldn’t be bothered by this item, normally. I mean I found those portable crafting stations useless so I never bought them, end of story. The difference here is that the existence of this item precludes ever having the ability to save build templates, and that is a shame.

I really miss from WoW the Dual specializations

I’ll grant that not having a system where you spend points, and then are asked to confirm (which would avoid misclicks,) can be problematic. I think the trait lines are spread enough apart, graphically, that this should rarely be a problem, but, hey, people are going to occasionally misread things at a glance, and I’m sure I’ve done dumber things now and then, so I think some better menu work could be done here.

Giving up one inventory slot of the item is pretty negligible burden, at least if you’ve bought/crafted reasonably large containers. I know this as someone who is constantly hauling around tons of crap (town clothes, alternate armor for looks, LS items like the Flames of Kryta, etc.) I haven’t bought any extra bag slots, but I rarely run out of room unless I A) haven’t been salvaging/selling stuff, or B ) I try to open a bunch of bonus chests (Tequatl) and containers (Champion Loot Bags) at the same time.

I think the idea is to not use multiples of these things every day, or even to play every day. If we imagine a gamer who has enough time to do more than two significantly-different game types in a day (enough to use more than one retrait item,) and then repeat that on a daily basis, they probably aren’t feeling the time pinch enough to want to pay for that little convenience. The target demographic probably doesn’t have that much time, which is why they’d rather shell out $0.75 instead of warp to Lion’s Arch and back in the first place. Even if they did land in some middle ground where they want to retrait a lot, but are also pinched for time, the cost of the retrait item might discourage them from using it a lot…which keeps their way of playing the game not that different from how everyone else plays the game, with their traits changing at a very limited frequency.

Am I saying it’s a good deal? For the vast majority of people, I should think, and this includes myself, it’s just not worth it. That’s okay, I think; convenience items like these aren’t meant to appeal to everyone. If they did, and non-cosmetic for-cash items were powerful enough or cheap enough, they’d run the risk of becoming explicitly or implicitly necessary, and the game model would suffer for it. If you think a real money purchase is useless, and so you don’t buy them, but someone else does for the sake of that very minor convenience, the system is working correctly. I know people are frequently scornful of freemium features, but there’s a difference between Plants vs. Zombies 2 does microtransactions and how Candy Crush Saga does them.

I disagree, however, and this might be what really rankles people about the retrait item, with the idea that retraiting should be much more freely accessible than it is. While I like the idea of saving build templates, for use in different content “modes,” (PvE, WvW, dungeons, fractals, etc.,) I also like the idea of giving trait decisions weight by requiring a generally minor amount of hassle to change them. It favors those who come prepared, while encouraging players to deal with unfavorable surprises in a way other than changing yet another dial on their character, on top of equipment, skills, and major traits. That inconvenience, at its effect on how people play, is not an inherently bad thing or bad game design.

I’m not sure people’s problem with the retrait item is what it does (which is comparable to convenience items we’ve had since launch,) but rather that it doubles down on an existing system some players dislike, and apparently precludes the replacement of that system with one more similar to GW1. How many people thought replacing the current trait system was on the the table before? I won’t say it was never going to happen, but it was clearly a conscious decision on the part of the design team to make it less flexible, and the introduction of a the retrait item, a full year after launch, just seems to establish their commitment to the system, bringing it in line with half a dozen other systems with convenience items tied to them. The difference between them and it, however, is that the retrait item wasn’t available at launch (unlike armor repair cans,) which suggests it wasn’t factored into the design decision in the first place.

Can just carry around a stack of Grandmaster Trait Books with you instead of buying this.

Sarie.1630:

Can just carry around a stack of Grandmaster Trait Books with you instead of buying this.

A stack of those manuals costs 500 gold Also, I do believe they made it so it no longer resets your traits after used the first time, change introduced with the introduction of this new gem store item.

Redenaz.8631:

[Everything he said]

You, sir, are intelligent and smart and I agree with everything you’ve said. You may have all my internet points.

Lower the price of the current finite use version of the item, create an infinite use item for a whole bunch of a lot of money. 1k+ gems.

Cheap people can reasonably stack up on finite use ones probably still at a loss compared to the 2s the trainer charges, that’s reasonable. But not at like a 5g+.

People who never want to worry about it again have the option to pay a premium. Something like that.

I would go for such an item it allows me to save traits and switch between them. Like a bank slot. Instant reset is just not the right way to do it. Out of combat and switch would be great.

That would be really really nice to store some builds in case I want to play an alt differently for a while and save a build I like or want to experiment in the future with.

And for such an item a ton of player would go for it! Perfect Gold Sink.

But this one is just useless. There is no really urgend need to switch traits. No one really goes through the annoyance of clicking it together. Maybe just flip a major trait.

But storing builds would be a big seller! Maybe even with your choice of equipment.

Then don’t buy it. What are you so angry about?

Most of the complaints fall into one of two categories:

1) It’s a terrible value, so it’s pointless at best, and insulting at worst.

2) By doubling down on the current system, ArenaNet seems to be ruling out the possibility that traits will become more flexible, such as by implementing a template system or at least eliminating the need to go to a city to change traits.

I think #1 is mostly rooted in a fundamental misunderstanding of the convenience item market, but #2 is rooted in a more difficult problem, in that these players want the system to be different in a fairly major way. The system they want isn’t strictly better or worse than the system in place (in my opinion,) but that just makes their complaints more sincere. They’re sincerely disappointed that a change isn’t being made that they think is for the better, and they’re frustrated because “more flexibility, more convenience” seems like an obvious improvement, while the advantages of a more restrictive system are much more subtle. That’s a fair reason to be disappointed, and if they’re passionate about the game, it’s understandable why a person might get frustrated or angry.

These two things don’t cover every complaint, mind you, and I’ve disagreed with quite a few people on this issue, but it’s wrongheaded to simply dismiss them with a “don’t like it, don’t buy it” attitude. That’s a shallow treatment of the problem, and certainly isn’t going to change anyone’s perspective on the issue.

I wish the manuals would reset your traits, 11s for a mobile version and 3s50 for the trainer one seems fine to me…

Maybe even the 1g book (2g seems a bit steep) but making a whole new item seems a bit much.