Guild Wars 2

Is putting choice of one thing or another in front of the player base such a good idea?

I’m of course talking about the new achievement meta prize that is EITHER the shinny Dr. Frankenstein back item or it’s a mini pet replica of the end boss from the new Twilight Assault wing of TA.

I personally like the idea of choice, but I can also see where it’ll lead to drama and self entitlement. It was assumed that the Cutthroat Politics would have included this kind of ‘moral dilemma’ for the players choose sides, but the system was in infancy at the time. What should have happened was that players should have only been able to get either the Meta supporting Gnashblade or the Meta supporting Kiel; basically rewarding only a single mini to the one they’re supporting… giving more significance to support being done.

That never happened quite like what was wanted. Now here we are with the Twilight Assault on the horizon (ha! pun). As mentioned above, the Meta for the even is said to be a choice between two items. It’s not as dramatic as the supporting vote for an electoral candidate, but it’s still bound to bring the drama. Entitlement will ensue for those felling the “need” to collect both back items and minis alike.

In the future, I do hope that these choices will expand to being more than just “mini or back skin?”. Cutthroat was a missed opportunity for it, but a good viewing point for what potential can bloom into full blown moral impact for players on the story that’s given.

P.S. Really wish there was an option to either save Lord Feren, or letting Scarlett cook him. If saved, he could have died tragically a bit later, but it would have added an additional NPC conversation between the player and Logan Thackery. It would have/could have also given potential moral harassment from Scarlett about how the player let him die (purposely via fire or accidently).

This is probably one of my major issues with GW2. Basically, you are being dragged through the story and have absolutely no impact on how it plays out.

If the back skin were awarded via the achievement panel similar to the Zenith weapon skins and the Radiant/Molten armour ones, I would have a far harder choice. But if it’s between an item that only ONE character can use, and one that all my characters can share, then I’m definitely going for the mini. I don’t even USE minis, but I far prefer something that I don’t have to worry about being soulbound.

Eh, I’ll pass on the mini given that I find them useless.

How do we know it’s a choice between one reward or the other? Reading the release page, I got more the impression that they’d be earned different ways. Say, perhaps, one for a meta achievement and one for dungeon completion. Did they say it was one or the other someplace else? Am I misreading it?

Siphaed.9235:

P.S. Really wish there was an option to either save Lord Feren, or letting Scarlett cook him. If saved, he could have died tragically a bit later, but it would have added an additional NPC conversation between the player and Logan Thackery. It would have/could have also given potential moral harassment from Scarlett about how the player let him die (purposely via fire or accidently).

But…Faren! I would be incredibly, terribly sad if they killed off that idiot. <3

The problem with giving you the option is that then he couldn’t pop up again later for characters who let him die. If he got a cameo later, like the when he was on the beach or, indeed, captured by Scarlett, either he’d have to be magically alive again (for players who let him die) or situationally replaced by someone else, which isn’t practical.

Redenaz.8631:

How do we know it’s a choice between one reward or the other? Reading the release page, I got more the impression that they’d be earned different ways. Say, perhaps, one for a meta achievement and one for dungeon completion. Did they say it was one or the other someplace else? Am I misreading it?

Siphaed.9235:

P.S. Really wish there was an option to either save Lord Feren, or letting Scarlett cook him. If saved, he could have died tragically a bit later, but it would have added an additional NPC conversation between the player and Logan Thackery. It would have/could have also given potential moral harassment from Scarlett about how the player let him die (purposely via fire or accidently).

But…Faren! I would be incredibly, terribly sad if they killed off that idiot. <3

The problem with giving you the option is that then he couldn’t pop up again later for characters who let him die. If he got a cameo later, like the when he was on the beach or, indeed, captured by Scarlett, either he’d have to be magically alive again (for players who let him die) or situationally replaced by someone else, which isn’t practical.

I’m sorry, but you misunderstood my fantasy of the situation. I’d have liked him to die no matter what, but the moral choice would be how he dies. If a player were to allow Scarlett to cook him, Thackery would have given the player an angry scolding while Scarlett’s letter to the player would have mentioned how their heart is turning cold (or some other moral push). However, if the player were to choose to save Faren from the fire, he’d then die 3 minutes later to…a tree that falls on him? This would in turn give Thackery’s conversation a more solemn “you did the best you could, but not everyone can be saved, he’ll be avenged” kind of conversation; Scarlett’s letter would then be more or less a taunting on how you stopped her roasting this cowardly fellow, but failed to save him from the fate of the Eternal Alchemy (casting a shadow of failure on the player).

Both scenarios mentioned above would have a more emotional impact on the player who’s experiencing them. That emotion would be directly catered to the choice of what the player did at a single crossroad. The outcome of Faren being dead would still be the same either way.

^I see your point and I agree with it completely, though I would probably have ragequitted and cried myself to sleep if Faren had died. I mean, my heart skipped a beat and I was like “NOOOOO” when he fell… Doesn’t matter, had Faren. On a speedo. Again. TYVM Anet <3

This kind of moral choice is awesome and I would like to see that happening, just like I would have loved to stay behind with good ol’ Tibs and help him fighting the undead, even if he ended up dead anyway. I hated that I had to run away while my mentor perished.

Edit: Faren is not a coward. Anyone that played the human noble story line knows that. Why does everybody seems to think that he is a coward? ~.~

timidobserver.7925:

Eh, I’ll pass on the mini given that I find them useless.

This. I still don’t see the point of the minis. Sure, they look cool… for about 10min.

Faren is a lovable idiot of GW2, I had a Skywalkerish “nooooooo” moment when it seemed like he died he died during Queen’s Speech.
But yeah I agree with the point. We should be given more choice.

Wait, Faren is going to die? They’re going to kill off one of the few likable characters in this game in an attempt to make the worst character in the game not named Trahearne more “menacing”? I use the quotations because none of us – not one – is ever going to see Scarlet as anything more than a cardboard character.

hedix.1986:

timidobserver.7925:

Eh, I’ll pass on the mini given that I find them useless.

This. I still don’t see the point of the minis. Sure, they look cool… for about 10min.

Faren is a lovable idiot of GW2, I had a Skywalkerish “nooooooo” moment when it seemed like he died he died during Queen’s Speech.

Yeah, I like the idea of minis and I was originally going to collect all of them but when it became obvious that collecting minis is almost purely a cash (gem or gold) spending exercise I gave up on that.

Besides, the fact that they tend to get deposited to the bank automatically means that when I did get one I tended to “lose” it almost immediately upon mining/harvesting/gathering the next node (and yeah, I do know about invisible packs, thanks everyone).

Me too on Faren, I forgot that I have at least one character waiting to go meet up with him at some stage and was genuinely worried for a second. He’s good comic relief.

Depends. I was very annoyed by the election choice because they said they will only make one of the fractals and will never make the other one. This was stupid because both were great ideas. It’s like asking us if we want new weapon skins or new armor skins but whatever we chose we can never have the other choice.

Breaking Bad.6241:

Depends. I was very annoyed by the election choice because they said they will only make one of the fractals and will never make the other one. This was stupid because both were great ideas. It’s like asking us if we want new weapon skins or new armor skins but whatever we chose we can never have the other choice.

Yeah, losing the other fractal leaves a sour taste in my mouth, they both sounded interesting (but either will reveal the same information on the nature of magic, I think). As for this, they’re still working out ways to make these things feel “special” I think but I don’t think this kind of forced choice will sit well with a lot of players, the collectors especially.

Personally, I think the backpack would look good on my engineer. A mini I can pass on. Well, for the periods of time where she’s not using a kit, that is. Out of combat, mainly, I suppose.

Choices create dissatisfaction, especially when there is no way to do something later to get the other options. Rooster Teeth (the company that makes Red vs Blue – the Halo machinima) talked about why they don’t do polls for merchandise in their store. If you get people to choose between two things, regardless of which one wins, there’s always going to be people who preferred the other one and will be unhappy with the end result. There will also be people who wanted both options.

There are a lot of unhappy people after Cutthroat Politics who wanted the Abadon fractal. Had players never been given a choice, there would be no dissatisfaction. Choices like that create losers, losing isn’t fun and it’s not necessary for people to be happy.

I don’t know where you’re getting that there will be a choice between the back item or the mini pet, but I don’t like that idea. Why is it necessary for your options to be mutually exclusive for them to have value? I am using the Orrian dagger skin on my necromancer right now, above all weapon skins. It drops frequently in Orr and everyone can buy it for 1 silver. In no way is it rare or exclusive, but it has value to me because I like the way it looks. I have both the Evon and Kiel mini pets. Neither has much value to me and that wouldn’t change if I forced to choose. If I want a miniature of the final boss of the new path or an exclusive back item I will never be able to obtain otherwise, it would really suck to be forced to choose. What if I want both? Why shouldn’t I be able to earn both? Why is it necessary for me to be excluded from having one or the other?

timidobserver.7925:

Eh, I’ll pass on the mini given that I find them useless.

I loved minis in Gw1….

(I just don’t care for them here, b/c they have yet to give us any that I find compelling) :p

Yes the same problem applies to achievement rewards, if you picked radiant, but later decided that you like the fire helmet better, how can you get the other pieces (considering they cant be dyed).

I certainly regret my choice there, so I choose to no longer wear them, because id rather have a dyable piece that I can uniquely blend to my desire, then a strict uniform.

Sacrifice creates attachment – if you have to give up one mini to get the other you might like that more. That obviously doesnt apply to every player but to some. I’m no fan of “forever unobtainable” rewards though.

I think WoW did a nice middle ground there at last with some of the recurring events – you had a choice of three minis for one of them, but could repeat it once per year, and at some points they added another quest like it or more choices. So you didnt have to anguish over a final choice but you didnt have them all either at least for a few years. I like that idea at least for recurring stuff. For one-shot things … I dunno I’m not a fan of that anyway.

folly dragon.4126:

Yes the same problem applies to achievement rewards, if you picked radiant, but later decided that you like the fire helmet better, how can you get the other pieces (considering they cant be dyed).

I certainly regret my choice there, so I choose to no longer wear them, because id rather have a dyable piece that I can uniquely blend to my desire, then a strict uniform.

For achievements I assume you CAN get all skins eventually, it just takes achievement points (and as a function of that, it takes a ‘long* time for all, but not quite that long for those you want most). I am absolutely ok with that. I made my choice in the weapon skins I have so far, even regret one of them but they’ll come around… same with the armors.

can someone please enlighten me with the purpose of minis …..

Player choice is ultimately good as it allows people with different play kittenylekitteno enjoy different content – and likewise awards both. I agree with your sentimentkitteno have a long lakittening impact based on our decisions – this is where the personal kittenory achievements came in – you could only get achievements for one race and one order.

The issue which comes up is when people who want to do both do not have the time required to do both. I’m not saying that the content designers intended for both to be done in a reasonable amount of time, if they did then some of the drama which you see would simply not occur. The other issue which comes up includekittenhe idea that some people WILL NOT get the back piece due to bad luck no matter how many dungeon runkittenhey do.

Its jukitten a matter of perspectives – I do believe hard work in the right method should yield appropriate reward, and I don’t believe players should jukitten get handed everything for jukitten exikittening. Where as others – using more efficient and exact game-play should net the reward, whereas if others don’t use a certain skill level of game-play, no matter how much time they put in, they shouldn’t get the reward. The issue is ANET can’t cater to both perspectives, since a) not everyone hakittenhe time or b) not everyone hakittenhe skill to complete which is why they have been adding separate paths as of late. But there is alwaykittenhe idea of accessibility – the back piece is always going to be a low accessibility item because it is intended to be rare, and the mini a high accessibility item because it is a keepsake.

But back to some issues with having low accessibility – take for example trib mode in SAB. Yes some people have a easy time running it, and I have friends who can do world 1 in 25-35 mins while in trib mode. I wanted to get trib mode done (I don’t exactly have the bekitten skill in this game) so I put time into it – came out with doing w1z1 in 3 hours, and w1z2 in 3.5 hours. I was glad that I was able to get it done, but at the same time I had mixed feelings about the accessibility being too high compared to the work done. Yekittenhe whole point of an MMO ikitteno kittenuff your face full of possible thingkitteno do so you don’t get bored, and yes many players do a reward vs effort consideration BEFORE getting something done, but not everything can be quantified in time before hand(such as SAB trib mode or even the new back piece).

Depends on if the majority of players want what I want :p