Guild Wars 2

How are we supposed to know anything if they just introduced her?

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

To be pedantic, Tibs was killed by minions and not the Elder Dragon itself. However Zhaitan is indirectly responsible for killing one of my favorite NPCs, and therefore has earned a majority of my hatred

I came here to argue against as I do not like Scarlet much. But then after reading the comments I realised we do not actually have a good villain yet. Unless, does Mad King Thorn count?

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

And Forgal and Seiran. Well, his minions did it, but still more or less it was Zhaitan. Triple Checkmate. Scarlet hasn’t killed anyone important.

Aedelric, the key word is yet. We will one day see Palawa Joko again, and with how he was set up in GW1, I don’t see how they could possibly screw him up. I also heard rumors that we’ll see Menzies the Mad and Balthazars struggle again. And when I first learned of Menzies the Mad in GW1 I thought like sheogorath in the elder scrolls, as probably the most well known god I could think of, but then I saw his minions and the Fissure of Woe, and I think Mad may be as in enraged and bloodthirsty, so I hope if that rumor is true he get’s done well.

Kysin.6349:

I think she is just Harley Quinn in Sylvari mode

same voice actor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar

Trivia
Scarlet’s voice actress is Tara Strong.²

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/speech/Scarlet-is-fantastic-Merged/page/3#post2682723

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0152839/
2013
Injustice: Gods Among Us (Video Game)
Harley Quinn / Raven (voice)

2012
Robot Chicken: DC Comics Special (TV Movie)
Harley Quinn / Selena Gomez (voice)

2012
Harley Quinn’s Revenge (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

2011
Batman: Arkham City (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

Nilkemia.8507:

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

And Forgal and Seiran. Well, his minions did it, but still more or less it was Zhaitan. Triple Checkmate. Scarlet hasn’t killed anyone important.

Well, Theo Ashford was killed by the Aetherblades, and they work for her, so that’s kinda like if she had killed him, right?
Anyway, she almost killed Faren, but I think that the whole thing was just an excuse to give us MOAR Faren on a speedo. Well played, ANet.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Kysin.6349:

I think she is just Harley Quinn in Sylvari mode

same voice actor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar

Trivia
Scarlet’s voice actress is Tara Strong.²

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/speech/Scarlet-is-fantastic-Merged/page/3#post2682723

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0152839/
2013
Injustice: Gods Among Us (Video Game)
Harley Quinn / Raven (voice)

2012
Robot Chicken: DC Comics Special (TV Movie)
Harley Quinn / Selena Gomez (voice)

2012
Harley Quinn’s Revenge (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

2011
Batman: Arkham City (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

Yay FACTS ARE FUN!

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

To be pedantic, Tibs was killed by minions and not the Elder Dragon itself. However Zhaitan is indirectly responsible for killing one of my favorite NPCs, and therefore has earned a majority of my hatred

ehh. Tybalt was killed by them forcibly merging all 3 of our divergent personal stories , back into 1 single plotline against its own will …. which just had another Marysue Plant that has made people loooong for the return of Kormir… (just you wait, he’ll one day MERGE with a dragon and outrank the gods themselves).

But seriously…. consider the ridiculously out-of-character fashion Tybby perished in…

Abaddon is a better villain than Scarlet, without saying a word.

Ellen Kiel is the best villain because she brought the useless white knight sidekick out of everyone (even the ones that didn’t vote for her because we were also assumed for voting for her). :>

Scarlet had me at “die die die die die die, die” <3

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

I really wish Arena Net would look at all the lore they have already established, and get back to expanding that. The air pirates, and all the other added stuff doesn’t build plot, doesn’t progress existing plot and really bores me and so many others.

How about the Dragon minions? The shadow army, returned from the Fissure of Woe? Creatures from the Underworld? Palawa Joko’s influence spreading past the Elonian borders?

So much great lore, ready to be put to use. And instead, we get this lousy shrub doing a cliché song and dance, one we’ve seen so often, and one we’ve seen executed better in many cases. I’d love to see her killed off in this upcoming expansion, so we can finally get on with the real lore and actually impressive villains, monsters and such again.

Kyrel.8942:

How are we supposed to know anything if they just introduced her?

That’s precisely because she’s being introduced to us that we need to know something about her. That’s what an introduction is for.
But what we need to know is not her whole biography, delivered through a 5 minutes monologue that would spoil any kind of mistery and just bore us to death. What we need to know is just the right information that will tell us why we may want to care about this character.
What we need to know is why this character is relevant to the plot (can she threaten or help the heroes’ goals) and/or why we may want to discover more about the character (does this character behave in a way that makes us wonder if there’s something more going on that what appears at first glance ? Bonus points if this secret is relevant to the plot).

Re-using my Vader analogy : After less than two minutes of Vader screentime, we already know that his goal is to find the droids and that Leia gets on his nerves when she refuses to kneel before his almighty evilness. And here you have it : why the character is relevant to the plot, and why Vader may be more than just some evil lord in a black suit. As viewers (or players), it makes us want to see more, to see if the droids can escape Vader, and to see more about Vader’s personnality, and his struggle with authority, as we will later see that his rivalry with Tarkin and the other officers and his rivalry with his old master Kenobi are other expressions of his constant need to prove his authority (that’s what I get of it from my memories, you may interpret it differently).

In the case of Scarlet, well, she fails to shoot the Queen, she kills a handful of the most random civilians possible, and she sends her minions to the least populated corners of the map possible… She doesn’t make anything that could make us want to care about. Everytime she does something significant, the story instantly falls back to a status quo, with nothing hanging in the balance. The Queen is instantly saved, those dead civilians are just as important to us as those stormtroopers we see dying everyday, and her invasions don’t threaten anything more than a few flowers. Faren’s kidnapping could have given us a great goal as to why we would want to see the rest of the story (at least he is a character we can care about), but his kidnapping is never explicitely announced until we finally get into Scarlet’s Playhouse (any sane person would have assumed the fall killed him).
As for discovering more about Scarlet’s personnality, her need for self-determination has great potential toward making her interesting, but it is completely overshadowed by her OP engineering skills (which should only serve toward advancing the plot, and not define her as a character) and the fact that she just goes “ah ! ah ! Look at me ! I’m so evil !” without any kind of underlying goal. I’m not against a character that acts like that as long as there’s something behind it. In her case, she targets the Queen, then kill random civilians, then kidnap some ambassadors then invade some parts of Tyria. It feels like she doesn’t know what she’s doing, or she doesn’t have the guts to carry things through. Her actions point toward completely opposite goals. And no, her insanity isn’t a good excuse to that. If this character is going to be about refusing any kind of predetermined way of life imposed on her then at least make her actions show that.

So yeah, her just being introduced isn’t an excuse for her not being interesting.

People use the term “cartoon villains” in a derisive manner but stuff like Batman : The animated series had some brilliant writing behind it and memorable villains and also good guys. Something GW2 writing team could borrow a page or two from.

Tauril.8504

What we need to know is just the right information that will tell us why we may want to care about this character.

She can do everything – We don’t care.
She’s been everywhere – We don’t care.
She did everything better than us, all races, all other characters – Still don’t care.
She’s got a dreadful Mary Sue personality – Can we beat her up now?
She’s the villain – OH LOOK, IMPORTANT! We can beat her—- nope!
NOPE. NOPE. DENIED. Can’t beat her up, because plot. Plot that nobody likes.
Plot that’s written on a site, not in the game.
Plot that barely anyone registered was there at all.
Plot that’s freaking long, nonsensical and childish.

So yes, it opens new zones, a new sub-zone in a dungeon and so on.
But. Why this character?

If the Scarlet Invasions were led by a Dolyak named Potato, and the monsters were rabid Moose instead of Sky Pirates: no difference! Only visuals.

To me, that is the whole problem. Scarlet’s a mere visual representation of the need for a cheesy villain. That’s great, but what happened to the lore and characters that were already there, waiting for their turn to shine?

Gabby.3205:

Well, Theo Ashford was killed by the Aetherblades, and they work for her, so that’s kinda like if she had killed him, right?

Oh wow. She got one captain that nobody knew or cared about. No, Logan doesn’t count, that was just their way of introducing Marjory into the story, and making him seem like he’s doing something.

Plus, he died from his injuries, so sorta killed by them? I still think that was more Mai Trin than anyone else, Scarlet hadn’t even been mentioned yet.

Ishmel.1308:

Scarlet had me at “die die die die die die, die” <3

I thought that was a supraliminal message encouraging everyone to buy dye packs.

Die die die!
Dye dye dye!

See? It’s so obvious very few people will even notice it. Like a purloined letter somebody hid – by not hiding it!

/e lead helm

I feel the OP oversimplified every single GW2 villain there is. Every single one. Scarlet included.

A Massive Headache.1879:

I feel the people who excessively dislike Scarlet didn’t actually read anything about her and just think she’s a joker clone

Edit: there is reason and a cause behind her actions.

I’ve seen all that’s been noted in game about her. I’ve read the short story. I listened to the TowerTalk interview that redacts the Villain Sue-ness the short story creates.

I still don’t like her.

But I think the problem that I had to do such digging to learn about Scarlet is part of the issue about Scarlet that makes her such a bad character. It’d be like the only way for Lord Voldemort or Joker to become even remotely interesting would be by an interview with the respective authors of the villain’s story – if you cannot like a character by enjoying the story alone, but can by digging into external sources, then there’s something wrong with the storytelling.

This said, someone in this thread mentioned that ArenaNet needs better writers… this is true. But not in the stance of making interesting villains (or heroes). But rather in that ArenaNet’s writers – be it due to their own talent or the limitations of the time restraints of the LS – are need to allow the story to be experienced, rather than told.

P.S., whatever happened to “when it’s done”? It seems rather clear to me that ArenaNet’s releasing faster than they can properly polish. Even the original release feels that way (and I do recall it being mentioned that the Zhaitan fight was so bad because they were running short on time).

you missed somethings For Example Zhatian was Responsible for the death of Tybalt (aka the best Npc ingame EVER!) though I haven’t completed the last mission yet

Im sure theres a few other ones you missed but that was one of the major ones you missed

The fact that every villain in Gw2 so far has been underwhelming doesn’t make Scarlet any better.

Also, people like Shiro, Varesh or Reiko (Minister of Purity leader) would like to have a word with her about “How to be the bad guy”.

I disagree. I think the most effective villain GW2 has had to date have been the Karka. While people might be annoyed by fighting them (Personally I think they’re really well designed as enemies) Let us not forget that Karka are not only terribly mysterious, but also SENTIENT and OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE LAST DRAGON UPRISING.

It’s easy to forget those two things because we don’t speak with them, and it’s difficult for us to understand the way their ancient hive-mind works, but they are absolutely capable of higher logic and reasoning, at least in a collective sense.

Karka’s Track record is as follows.

• Invaded Lion’s Arch and did permanent, lasting damage.
• Were beaten back at great cost and effort, but have never been truly defeated.
• Own an entire zone, a feat only the Flame Legion and Risen can match.
• Aren’t in their swan song period of LOSING that zone like the FLame Legion and Risen. Nobody attacks the Karka, they just defend and build walls.
• The only enemy faction to have become more powerful and dangerous as the story progresses forward.

Victurus the branded general is my favorite villain so far in GW2, you can see his lust for power/the strength of kralkatorik in him, he seem to want to test the limits of the power he has been given “harder, hit me harder you weaklings”, he has lines about how the dragon magic is changing him. It makes it seem to me that he was once a fairly powerful flame legion shaman by his model, and by the remnants of his personality that remain. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defeat_Victurus_and_his_Branded_army

This all being said I would love it if they brought back Razah as a villain, (ex. why did you abandon me, I followed you and you traveled to the mist and left me behind scenario. persecuted by his own kind [demons] who he betrayed, by joining us and fighting against them, and is now out for vengeance against all humans, for their ancestor’s mistakes.

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

PopeUrban.2578:

I disagree. I think the most effective villain GW2 has had to date have been the Karka. While people might be annoyed by fighting them (Personally I think they’re really well designed as enemies) Let us not forget that Karka are not only terribly mysterious, but also SENTIENT and OLD ENOUGH TO REMEMBER THE LAST DRAGON UPRISING.

It’s easy to forget those two things because we don’t speak with them, and it’s difficult for us to understand the way their ancient hive-mind works, but they are absolutely capable of higher logic and reasoning, at least in a collective sense.

Karka’s Track record is as follows.

• Invaded Lion’s Arch and did permanent, lasting damage.
• Were beaten back at great cost and effort, but have never been truly defeated.
• Own an entire zone, a feat only the Flame Legion and Risen can match.
• Aren’t in their swan song period of LOSING that zone like the FLame Legion and Risen. Nobody attacks the Karka, they just defend and build walls.
• The only enemy faction to have become more powerful and dangerous as the story progresses forward.

They busted in LA for one evening…
They lost their queen the next afternoon.

All events you just posted happened in couple hours.

In fact who still plays in Soutsun cove if Karak are so awesome?

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I think what you posted was evidence that the game, GW2, needs more compelling villains.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I think what you posted was evidence that the game, GW2, needs more compelling villains.

My post claimed she was best villain, and I proved my point.

shades

Thead.2139:

you missed somethings For Example Zhatian was Responsible for the death of Tybalt (aka the best Npc ingame EVER!) though I haven’t completed the last mission yet

Im sure theres a few other ones you missed but that was one of the major ones you missed

I stand correct killing Tybalt raises Zhaitan a couple of pegs.

I miss Tybs

Soulstar.7812:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I think what you posted was evidence that the game, GW2, needs more compelling villains.

My post claimed she was best villain, and I proved my point.

shades

Unfortunately your point is not so pointy, more blunt really, but yes I suppose its still a point.

manly tears flow from behind shades

ilr.9675:

Hopelessalchemist.4816:

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

To be pedantic, Tibs was killed by minions and not the Elder Dragon itself. However Zhaitan is indirectly responsible for killing one of my favorite NPCs, and therefore has earned a majority of my hatred

ehh. Tybalt was killed by them forcibly merging all 3 of our divergent personal stories , back into 1 single plotline against its own will …. which just had another Marysue Plant that has made people loooong for the return of Kormir… (just you wait, he’ll one day MERGE with a dragon and outrank the gods themselves).

But seriously…. consider the ridiculously out-of-character fashion Tybby perished in…

See I had a theory that Tybalt was the real leader of the Order of Whispers, and he faked his death to sneak back into the shadows.

I hope Tybalt reappears with the a new goal of killing the next Dragon Boss…
Buuuuut you know, that’s my wishful thinking.

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I think what you posted was evidence that the game, GW2, needs more compelling villains.

My post claimed she was best villain, and I proved my point.

shades

Unfortunately your point is not so pointy, more blunt really, but yes I suppose its still a point.

manly tears flow from behind shades

More than what the other side made of discussion made.
Soooo I win I’m right… forever.

(insert victory music)

Soulstar.7812:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

MastaNeenja.1537:

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I think what you posted was evidence that the game, GW2, needs more compelling villains.

My post claimed she was best villain, and I proved my point.

shades

Unfortunately your point is not so pointy, more blunt really, but yes I suppose its still a point.

manly tears flow from behind shades

More than what the other side made of discussion made.
Soooo I win I’m right… forever.

(insert victory music)

As long as it’s understood that I think all of the villains from GW2 are mediocre at best Scarlet included then I’m alright with that.

So Scarlet is the best baddie in GW2 but would you say she’s really that great of a character or villian?

Infamous Darkness.3284:

This all being said I would love it if they brought back Razah as a villain, (ex. why did you abandon me, I followed you and you traveled to the mist and left me behind scenario. persecuted by his own kind [demons] who he betrayed, by joining us and fighting against them, and is now out for vengeance against all humans, for their ancestor’s mistakes.

Ooh, that’s a good idea…

Though to be fair… Demons didn’t come from the mists, they came from the Foundry of Failed creations and also from the “Mad Corruption” of being locked away with Abbadon all those years after his defeat.

Razah came from the Rift itself…. says so right in his bio. All we can assume is that he’s a collection of consciousness sort of like how the Sylvari came into being but he’s not actually Empathetically linked together with anyone like they all are…

ilr.9675:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

This all being said I would love it if they brought back Razah as a villain, (ex. why did you abandon me, I followed you and you traveled to the mist and left me behind scenario. persecuted by his own kind [demons] who he betrayed, by joining us and fighting against them, and is now out for vengeance against all humans, for their ancestor’s mistakes.

Ooh, that’s a good idea…

Though to be fair… Demons didn’t come from the mists, they came from the Foundry of Failed creations and also from the “Mad Corruption” of being locked away with Abbadon all those years after his defeat.

Razah came from the Rift itself…. says so right in his bio. All we can assume is that he’s a collection of consciousness sort of like how the Sylvari came into being but he’s not actually Empathetically linked together with anyone like they all are…

So this could mean a link with Abbadon and Insane characters?

Scarlet is horrible and you know she is horrible. A sylvari no more then 20 year old and is smarter then older asuras? HAH Maximum Mary sue. Go research guild wars lore and read some fantasy novels and you’ll quickly realize how bad Scarlet is written. Atleast the other villains have some flaws and not protected by plot armor. God threads like this just gonna encourage anet to write even more bad lore.

Stop droning and take a stand. Dont just accept bad writing, guild wars 1 had awesome lore and slowly that awesome lore is fading in to the toilet because drones and encouraging it.

Soulstar.7812:

So this could mean a link with Abbadon and Insane characters?

Not anymore…. we KILLED him in Nightfall
It wasn’t like Menzies who was merely banished I don’t think…

But that does bring up a great question about Scarlet’s Madness I suppose…
(sorry, I’ve got no theories on that one b/c they’re not even giving us hints here)

.

…Also we’re not aware of any ancient Dragon fitting that M.O. either…. Zhaitan corrupts, festers, poisons, and claims weaker souls like Dhuum. Primordus spawns the most powerful warriors of flame that only Enchanted Dwarves with the most advanced blacksmithing in history were capable of facing in large numbers (we know which God that sounds like). Kralkatoric corrupts nature itself…. like an evil Melandru, but we never actually saw any hints of madness in its minions. Only immense “zerginess” and resilience. …Jormag is much more of an Enigma but I think it’s safe to say there’s no pattern of madness there either.

For all of this to come together, we’d need some other Dragon that we don’t currently have information on and the only ones that haven’t been covered here are the Deep Sea one, and the rumored “Jungle Dragon” that we know even less about. (the Jungle Dragon would most likely have been the source of the Mursaat’s magics)

The statue of Dwayna has a better story than Scarlet. I don’t think the Eyes of Zaitan looked as good they should but they also had a better story.

Toby.2357:

Stop droning and take a stand. Dont just accept bad writing, guild wars 1 had awesome lore and slowly that awesome lore is fading in to the toilet because drones and encouraging it.

Make a stand? I haven’t seen anything positive on the forums about the Living Story for a long time. People do not like scarlet, the OP says she’s the best but the best from a bad bunch does not make her a good villain.

The stories they are crafting lack any creativity and it worries me. The little short stories found on this site are pretty good, but the overall story arcs are NOT. They lack depth, fail to spark any sort of emotion except boredom.

I never played GW1 but after reading about the blood stone prophecies I can imagine the feeling the players had when they found out that the people they were sending to the White Mantle were not being trained in magic but sacrificed for their souls. The betrayal, trickery, deceit… now there you have a good villain(s). To know you were tricked into sending innocents to their doom would of spark a feeling of revenge, how dare you use me as a pawn for your evil. You would feel guilty for doing it, angry for being tricked, revenge to redeem yourself, satisfaction when you finally plunge you sword into the architect of their schemes.

scarlet? who cares, she’s just some nutcase. I don’t feel compelled to hunt her down, I just want to see new content.

Thobek.1730:

Toby.2357:

Stop droning and take a stand. Dont just accept bad writing, guild wars 1 had awesome lore and slowly that awesome lore is fading in to the toilet because drones and encouraging it.

Make a stand? I haven’t seen anything positive on the forums about the Living Story for a long time. People do not like scarlet, the OP says she’s the best but the best from a bad bunch does not make her a good villain.

The stories they are crafting lack any creativity and it worries me. The little short stories found on this site are pretty good, but the overall story arcs are NOT. They lack depth, fail to spark any sort of emotion except boredom.

I never played GW1 but after reading about the blood stone prophecies I can imagine the feeling the players had when they found out that the people they were sending to the White Mantle were not being trained in magic but sacrificed for their souls. The betrayal, trickery, deceit… now there you have a good villain(s). To know you were tricked into sending innocents to their doom would of spark a feeling of revenge, how dare you use me as a pawn for your evil. You would feel guilty for doing it, angry for being tricked, revenge to redeem yourself, satisfaction when you finally plunge you sword into the architect of their schemes.

scarlet? who cares, she’s just some nutcase. I don’t feel compelled to hunt her down, I just want to see new content.

See… all this above.

That is what we call opinion.

If you don’t like the content, skip it wait for more.
I enjoy the character, and I have shown that am not alone.

I will continue to ask for more Scarlet

Some of you can jump hopping mad over it, I enjoy it…
In fact some that enjoy Scarlet, feed the trolls to keep her name buzzing.

Nilkemia.8507:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

This feels like a troll post, but I’ll bite this time.

Canach wasn’t really a villain, he awoke the Karka by accident the first time, and while his methods were really dumb, he was still doing what he thought was right in the Secret of Southsun. He still has potential.

Caudecus wasn’t behind the Separatist plot in his manor. (at least I got that impression) And while his plots were easily foiled, he’s managed to cover his tracks well enough that we can’t get rid of him yet.. people are probably more interested in the White Mantle/Mursaat, who he might be working with.

While Zhaitan’s last stand was pitiful, he still rose an entire sunken continent and its dead population. That takes effort.

While Kudu is pretty much a bland nemesis for Zojja, it is somewhat personal if you picked an asuran character who had the weather device as their first invention.

Sorrow’s Embrace shows him as the first to get the dredge to work with them, even for just a while, and shows his experiments with draconic energy. Then he gets away, to be killed in the Crucible of Eternity. Still, he found a way to control dragon minions, something that the Inquest put to use even after his death.

I’ll agree with you on Gaheron, he was bland. And he didn’t reach godhood.

Didn’t fight the Karka Queen from the first time, so can’t comment on it.

Admittedly, Faolain didn’t do much besides waiting for Caithe to show up so she could try turning her evil. Cadyern got an even worse deal than her, the guy created the Nightmare Court and he’s just Faolain’s second in command when we meet him.

This. This completely.

Scarlet still being alive doesn’t exactly mean a whole lot. She has failed, with EVERY major plan she’s had. Time. And time. Again. Sure, she gave it a college effort, but really OP? You’re going to say that Scarlet is a better villain than Zhaitan because the mechanics in his fight were bad?

Please. He sunk a CONTINENT. All Scarlet did was get a bad haircut and let the world know with a proverbial megaphone that she’s got a nasty case of teen angst. Scarlet’s still alive, sure, but let’s see… She’s survived for how many years, where Zhaitan is how many centuries old?

Nice try, Scarlet. See you in a couple weeks again, I look forward to destroying your new terrible plan for the… I don’t even know how many times it’s been now.

I am just interested in what asspull anet will give regarding how scarlet manage to get the flame legion, dredge, aetherblades, steam creatures and control of the clockworks.

Regarding the mentors sacrifice, my problem with it is that their sacrifice is totally pointless. The gate closes from the inside so it can be opened just as easily as they closed it. They also wouldn’t last 5 secs alone with the mob inside. They also have enough time to run out as the door closes. Another problem is that by dying inside they gave information regarding their organisation to zhaitan after they are arose by zhaitan.

Scarlet =’s 10/10 would fight. I love the crazy evil genius and steampunk stuffs.

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

Only because I didn’t kill him first.

“I’m not your ****ing buddy, guy!”

My reaction to him offering to make his last stand was pretty much an over-the-shoulder “Better you than me!”

She’s the best villain of a collection of bad/boring villains. What an accomplishment.

Soulstar.7812:

See… all this above.

That is what we call opinion.

If you don’t like the content, skip it wait for more.
I enjoy the character, and I have shown that am not alone.

I will continue to ask for more Scarlet

Some of you can jump hopping mad over it, I enjoy it…
In fact some that enjoy Scarlet, feed the trolls to keep her name buzzing.

Ah but that’s your opinion too, which is what I was waiting for you to say that if you liked Scarlet yourself or if you actually thought that she was a good character. Simply stating that she is the best villain in GW2 is arguable to a point. Since your argument has a heavy bias that makes it invalid. You lost.

shades revoked

Which turns your whole argument into a log opinion sooo …

While Scarlett claims to be the leader, I think there’s someone above her. Why else would all of her plans fail? She’s just the distraction and everyone’s taking the bait.

Scarlet is awesome.
Moar Scarlet pleeeeease.

Scarlet is an improvement over the villains we’ve had in GW2 so far and I hope ArenaNet continues to move in that direction but I can’t argue that the villains from GW1 were more interesting.

I don’t remember specific White Mantle characters but I do remember watching them kill those innocent villagers and I remember their obnoxious attitudes. Those were guys you wanted to beat up and stop.

I did not finish the Factions campaign but what I saw of Shiro in the game made him seem a very intriguing villain.

That may be one of the big flaws of GW2’s villains. We never SEE them in the game except to fight them. The only way we are shown their backgrounds is through out-of-game stories, which are fun to read but they should not be the ONLY source of character development shown to players.

We got to know the White Mantle (and suspect something might be up with them) while playing GW1. We’re shown visions of Shiro’s past while playing the game. You didn’t need to read any wiki or story, it was all there in the game.

In stark contrast, we never even see Zhaitan until the very end. Any minion that shows up is quickly killed with nothing being shown in the game for their characterization beyond being a slave doing the the dragon’s will. Scarlet’s background is left to an out-of-game story rather than having characters see (uncover) it in the game.

I just realized this is another example of ArenaNet’s tendency to leave out important explanations inside their game and expect players to research the info (or telepathically mind-read it). They did this in GW1 and they have done this with game mechanics in GW2 but at least they now taking a first step to fix this lapse by finally making a tutorial, they’ll need many other steps but at least it’s a start.

On the story side, they have the same problem. They leave out worthwhile story elements from the game and expect every player to be reading out of game material to learn them.

A story or a wiki should be a supplement, NEVER the main source of information of game lore or mechanics. Any player should be able to get the full story (or understanding of any game mechanic) solely by explanations providing in the game.

Fortunately, it looks like ArenaNet is improving how they present stories with the new cinematics. I just hope they manage to finally break themselves of their habit of leaving out important information from their game.

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

The problem was Zhaitan never gloated over it. He never mocked our characters after doing it. From what we’ve seen Zhaitan didn’t even know that he killed an NPC important to our characters anymore than a hurricane would know it knocked down a house.

A good, memorable villain makes you want to hate them. The Elder Dragons are so empty of personality and motivation (from what we are shown in the game) that there’s nothing for us to hang any feeling of vengeance. You might get angry at a flood, but you can’t hate it anymore than you might hate a rock if it fell on top of Tybalt and killed him.

DoctorOverlord.8620:

Shiren.9532:

Zhaitan killed Tybalt Leftpaw. Checkmate.

The problem was Zhaitan never gloated over it. He never mocked our characters after doing it. From what we’ve seen Zhaitan didn’t even know that he killed an NPC important to our characters anymore than a hurricane would know it knocked down a house.

A good, memorable villain makes you want to hate them. The Elder Dragons are so empty of personality and motivation (from what we are shown in the game) that there’s nothing for us to hang any feeling of vengeance. You might get angry at a flood, but you can’t hate it anymore than you might hate a rock if it fell on top of Tybalt and killed him.

To be fair, somewhere I’ve read that in a certain spot somewhere after Claw Island, you can encounter some Risen saying “We’ll send you to shake hands with Tybalt!” or something similar. Same thing happens with Seiran as well in Bloodtide Coast, where a Risen Commander says “We’ll plant you in the ground next to Seiran!”

Also, the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan will mention your mentor’s death, and that they are now Risen. (Although, it was probably lying.)

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Kysin.6349:

I think she is just Harley Quinn in Sylvari mode

same voice actor.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scarlet_Briar

Trivia
Scarlet’s voice actress is Tara Strong.²

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/speech/Scarlet-is-fantastic-Merged/page/3#post2682723

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0152839/
2013
Injustice: Gods Among Us (Video Game)
Harley Quinn / Raven (voice)

2012
Robot Chicken: DC Comics Special (TV Movie)
Harley Quinn / Selena Gomez (voice)

2012
Harley Quinn’s Revenge (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

2011
Batman: Arkham City (Video Game)
Harleen Quinzel / Harley Quinn (voice)

People don’t think of her as Harley’s VA because her voice actress for almost twenty years (1992-2011) was Arleen Sorkin, and I’m not entirely sure she’s been absolutely replaced yet or if Strong is just standing in. Tara Strong has only done her voice in two video games, a parody show, and a spin-off cartoon, she generally provides the voices of other characters in the DCAU and not primarily Harley.

Even though Mark Hamill has retired as the Joker since the last Arkham game, most people think of him as the Joker’s VA over, say, Jeff Bennett who has always done the characters voice in The Brave and the Bold, because Hamill was his VA for twenty years and in the main Batman DCAU franchise no less. Get what I mean?

Anyway, saying Scarlet is better than GW2’s other villains is like saying “well, at least eating this rotten bologna sandwich is better than eating the sludge out of the bottom of the garbage can.” None of them are really that great, Scarlet included, even with her “I saw the eternal alchemy!” retracted by the writers. Still, Canach was more interesting than she is and I’d like to see more done with him, he has by far the most potential. Though more as an anti-hero than a villain.

And I think it’s sad that I find Zhaitan to have a more interesting personality than she does, and he was intentionally written not to really have one. Or one which is comprehensible, at least.

Soulstar.7812:

Auruan.2837:

Best villain? I think not. Quantity does not equal quality. Scarlet remains a Mary Sue.

Where is your evidence… I posted mine.

You failed to read it.

I am not Auruan, but consider this.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SoYouWantTo/AvoidWritingAMarySue

Scarlet falls under every single universal trigger save for two: the one about romance, and the last one which is about something only seen in textual writing (writing style). Even with the “eternal alchemy” thing taken back. The entire article is worth reading. It is just fact that she goes against some of these basic writing rules.

I apologize if it bothers you that people don’t like her, myself included. It’s okay if you like her. I like watching cheesy old b-horror movies sometimes because they’re funny, nothing’s wrong with that. But she is not the best character by most standards of writing. Many don’t like her due to this, and find her too tiresome, cliche, and immersion breaking to be entertaining. Stating your opinion that she’s fantastic and better than all other GW2 villains as be-all end-all fact might just end up aggravating a few people. As you can see here. Like I said, I like b-horror movies sometimes, but I’m not going to go to a horror movie forum and start telling everyone that Plan 9 From Outer Space is a better movie than The Exorcist, because Reasons. I can list dozens of shakily constructed reasons, but that doesn’t make it true.

It’s a real shame. GW2 needs better villains, and especially some well written female villains, but Scarlet just falls flat.