Guild Wars 2

Not that I’m trying to get my hopes up, but do you guys feel like they’re being ultra tight lipped about this update? That had to be the weakest “preview” I’ve ever seen. And not one dev posting in this forum yet, which is rather odd for updates.

You know what, it is odd indeed that no dev posted here yet.

They are probably busy watching us speculate and laughing at all the crazy theories.

Or maybe they are really hiding something. BRB gotta get my tin foil hat.

Tight-lipped as in how? There is one new dungeon path for level 80 characters and a few new weapon skins.

How much can you really talk about those?

This update just happens to be pretty poor in content, compared to what we’ve used to in the last few months. Nothing to sweat over. I’m sure a lot of people are still busy with Ascended weapons.

I find it hard to believe given the pretty big update last time (buff to world mobs, LFG tool, WvW ruins) that one single dungeon path is all they have in mind. I’ve seen all the preview notes before, and this one tells us almost nothing.

You mean the live-stream preview about it next week?

One of the highlights of this update is most likely the WvW League starting on 4/10. It is however quite weird that they don’t have that information on the preview page.

No, I mean the patch preview on the main page.

Haha, at first the red backdrop wasn’t on Leifs name, but looks to have updated now.

Thanks for the update

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey guys I was getting ready to post some info for you, but saw this thread and thought it would be the most fitting place. I’ve been reading through the threads so far and wanted to write on a few points brought up.

Our team’s put a great deal of effort into getting this new dungeon path right, so that it is both challenging and fun. We’re comprised of folks that worked on the Aetherblade Retreat, as well as myself from Molten Facility, so we’ve been putting everything we’ve learned from the past months’ development into what we think is a pretty exciting experience.

There’s a whole lot to do in this dungeon, even after the final boss is downed. Expect some nods to the existing TA paths, as well as a few to previous Living World dungeons. You’ve probably already seen some in the screenshots & trailer released so far.

Our hope is that once you get in there, you’ll see why this is the primary thing we’ve been working on. That said, Halloween is just around the corner, and you won’t be waiting too long after Twilight Assault to see what we’ve got in store for you with this year’s Mad King shindig.

Just want to say that I liked the Molten Facility and the AetherBlade Retreat and I am happy to see that a new permanent path will be added to an existing dungeon they REALLY need some love. Keep up the awesome work.

I really REALLY want this to be the “Season finale with awesome clip show” dungeon of This year’s LS.

You know, just bringin’ back all the awesome parts of the instances up to this point, tweaked for freshness, and then capped off with a short stint of punching scarlet in the face and blowing up her monster.

Yes TA really needs fixes! A lot of bugs and boring bosses. Hope this will be fixed in this patch.

Also since we have a Dev on the thread, I’d like to drop a suggestion for the dungeons. The gamit system from Queen’s Guantlet was a great idea!
Would it be possible to implement this system to the dungeons? With of course unique achievements and rewards for clearing them. That would be the GW2 version of the “heroic mode” that has been asked for for a while ^^

I really like the name Leif…odd statement but it is what it is.

Thanks for the info as well.

Confirms that the mad king is also making it back this year.

I just hope it will be much closer to the Molten facility than Aetherblade Retreat in it’s design. AR used too much of the “normal game mechanic bypassing” approaches for the sake of “arcade mode”, with too great insistence on cc/aoe spam, unblockables, oneshots etc. If i wanted to play bullet hells, i’d play Touhou, not GW2.

Yeah but w/o one-shot mechanics, the encounter becomes a tank-spank

How do you balance around a non-trinty dungeon?

The crazy theories are some of the best parts of the previews, IMO.

Maroah.8607:

Yes TA really needs fixes! A lot of bugs and boring bosses. Hope this will be fixed in this patch.

Doesn’t sound like it

They still haven’t given you people a straight answer on the For-Up path spawning issue.
Seems like a pretty simple thing to me though…. either “It’s intentional that THAT MANY spiders keep spawning and don’t De-spawn” … or it’s a simple “no that wasn’t intentional”.

Charak.9761:

Yeah but w/o one-shot mechanics, the encounter becomes a tank-spank

How do you balance around a non-trinty dungeon?

I for one, WELCOME mobs /w high DPS/frequency attacks that are more difficult to chain-dodge. It really incentivizes teams to bring a mix of gear or atleast a mix of builds instead of 5 berserkers (and thereby excluding anyone who doesn’t find that playstyle compelling)

Is F/U getting fixed???

I’m really curious to know if the entire dungeon is getting updated (like AC was) or is the new path the only thing happening in this update?

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey guys I was getting ready to post some info for you, but saw this thread and thought it would be the most fitting place. I’ve been reading through the threads so far and wanted to write on a few points brought up.

Our team’s put a great deal of effort into getting this new dungeon path right, so that it is both challenging and fun. We’re comprised of folks that worked on the Aetherblade Retreat, as well as myself from Molten Facility, so we’ve been putting everything we’ve learned from the past months’ development into what we think is a pretty exciting experience.

There’s a whole lot to do in this dungeon, even after the final boss is downed. Expect some nods to the existing TA paths, as well as a few to previous Living World dungeons. You’ve probably already seen some in the screenshots & trailer released so far.

Our hope is that once you get in there, you’ll see why this is the primary thing we’ve been working on. That said, Halloween is just around the corner, and you won’t be waiting too long after Twilight Assault to see what we’ve got in store for you with this year’s Mad King shindig.

I love you…
You just suggested this Halloween is gonna be different somehow.

and more dungeons….

Marry me.

I really hope this doesn’t mean ranger pets will be insta downed by all the dodge or die mechanics that were in Aetherblade Retreat…

Shiren.9532:

I really hope this doesn’t mean ranger pets will be insta downed by all the dodge or die mechanics that were in Aetherblade Retreat…

Yeah this is another big one they seem to keep ignoring.

Giving the pet more HP’s doesn’t change the fact that it’s still an unavoidable death inflicted on a poor A.I.

Frankly, if this actually is a “smaller” update, that’s not really always a bad thing. The Tequatl update for example is relatively small (I know it took a LOT of work, but I mean that getting a few of the fights in and getting the achievements, as well as the Boss Week achievements, didn’t take that long if you were dedicated to it), and it’s given me more time to actually play the game on my other characters and progress on my main instead of just trying to farm the content non-stop. Smaller updates can be good, both new players and players that have some lower level alts shouldn’t have to pick between devoting all their time to the content of the week (2 weeks, but shush) or to progressing their characters a bit.

ilr.9675:

Shiren.9532:

I really hope this doesn’t mean ranger pets will be insta downed by all the dodge or die mechanics that were in Aetherblade Retreat…

Yeah this is another big one they seem to keep ignoring.

Giving the pet more HP’s doesn’t change the fact that it’s still an unavoidable death inflicted on a poor A.I.

They should make the pet dodge roll with the owner. That should at least solve some of those deaths.

ilr.9675:

Maroah.8607:

Yes TA really needs fixes! A lot of bugs and boring bosses. Hope this will be fixed in this patch.

Doesn’t sound like it

They still haven’t given you people a straight answer on the For-Up path spawning issue.
Seems like a pretty simple thing to me though…. either “It’s intentional that THAT MANY spiders keep spawning and don’t De-spawn” … or it’s a simple “no that wasn’t intentional”.

Charak.9761:

Yeah but w/o one-shot mechanics, the encounter becomes a tank-spank

How do you balance around a non-trinty dungeon?

I for one, WELCOME mobs /w high DPS/frequency attacks that are more difficult to chain-dodge. It really incentivizes teams to bring a mix of gear or atleast a mix of builds instead of 5 berserkers (and thereby excluding anyone who doesn’t find that playstyle compelling)

This. Give more mobs attack chains that two dodges alone won’t let you avoid all the damage from, but neither do they insta-gib you. It is possible in this game design to leverage attrition fights that make defensive stats relevant instead of subpar, it just hasn’t been really done much.

Creating challenge is far more than just dropping in some one shots for a player that is a millisecond too slow at reacting.

Oh great, more aetherblade retreat instant kill stuff…

I can’t wait. I LIKE the fact that we don’t know what to expect. I really liked the flame and frost dungeon though, so I have hopes for this one.

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey guys I was getting ready to post some info for you, but saw this thread and thought it would be the most fitting place. I’ve been reading through the threads so far and wanted to write on a few points brought up.

Our team’s put a great deal of effort into getting this new dungeon path right, so that it is both challenging and fun. We’re comprised of folks that worked on the Aetherblade Retreat, as well as myself from Molten Facility, so we’ve been putting everything we’ve learned from the past months’ development into what we think is a pretty exciting experience.

There’s a whole lot to do in this dungeon, even after the final boss is downed. Expect some nods to the existing TA paths, as well as a few to previous Living World dungeons. You’ve probably already seen some in the screenshots & trailer released so far.

Our hope is that once you get in there, you’ll see why this is the primary thing we’ve been working on. That said, Halloween is just around the corner, and you won’t be waiting too long after Twilight Assault to see what we’ve got in store for you with this year’s Mad King shindig.

We shall see, considering how there are many “primary” aspects of this game that need attention.

It seems many of us like the Flame & Frost Molten Retreat dungeon, so good job to Leif and company for that. So how about adding it to the fractals rotation so we can play it again, please?

Tom Gore.4035:

ilr.9675:

Shiren.9532:

I really hope this doesn’t mean ranger pets will be insta downed by all the dodge or die mechanics that were in Aetherblade Retreat…

Yeah this is another big one they seem to keep ignoring.

Giving the pet more HP’s doesn’t change the fact that it’s still an unavoidable death inflicted on a poor A.I.

They should make the pet dodge roll with the owner. That should at least solve some of those deaths.

But it raises the skill cap for a single class to function at base level. It also doesn’t make sense to require the owner to dodge when the pet is the only one in danger (a ranged weapon user with a melee pet will have to dodge less than the pet, blowing a dodge for a pet would be a convoluted mechanic).

The pet is an AI companion. The player controls the ranger character, it shouldn’t have to control the pet. The game’s AI,pet and content design should take care of basic pet survivability functions. The ranger’s decisions shouldn’t be “how can I be a pseudo healer for my pet and micro it’s positioning at all times in addition to my own simply to keep my class mechanic functional” they should be “how can I best utilise my pet to aid my party and myself, to push my performance and contribution to the next level, to make my party glad to have me”. A ranger that is very good at using the pet and managing it through micro can keep it alive, a guardian or mesmer that is very good at using their reflections can keep the entire party alive by nullifying dangerous enemy attacks and doing OP damage (reflection against boss mobs) with a single well timed skill.

Stark.1350:

That had to be the weakest “preview” I’ve ever seen.

The queen’s speech was the weakest preview, intentionally designed that way.

Nods to existing paths of TA? Are we going to see Scarlet offing Faolain’s champions?

I’m interested in seeing the new dungeon, but even more glad to hear we won’t be missing on any Mad King fun this year

Oh great, more aetherblade retreat instant kill stuff…

I hope not. ArenaNet has shown they can learn from past mistakes. I am optimistic that flubs like that terrible Frizz’s Lab encounter will not be repeated.

DoctorOverlord.8620:

I’m interested in seeing the new dungeon, but even more glad to hear we won’t be missing on any Mad King fun this year

Oh great, more aetherblade retreat instant kill stuff…

I hope not. ArenaNet has shown they can learn from past mistakes. I am optimistic that flubs like that terrible Frizz’s Lab encounter will not be repeated.

I thought the Frizz fight was the best fight they made since Giganticus Lupicus, and excluding the Mai Trin fight dragging on forever (along with her undodgeable shadowshot), AR was a step way above their other dungeons.

GoldenTruth.2853:

I thought the Frizz fight was the best fight they made since Giganticus Lupicus, and excluding the Mai Trin fight dragging on forever (along with her undodgeable shadowshot), AR was a step way above their other dungeons.

I have to disagree. The “fight” was a badly made jumping puzzle, nothing more.

The only skill that let you survive was being able to jump on top of poorly designed boxes. You could not support your teammates if someone was not a skilled jumper and there was no build you could make that would assist with jumping on the boxes. You either had those jumping skills or you didn’t and unless most of your group did as well, this gated the entire Aetherblade storyline and prevented people from seeing it. I saw enough posts when this content was live to know that my group of friends were not the only ones who had this issue.

Previous jumping puzzles in dungeons allowed players to support each other. For example the sloped stairway with electrified pulses in the Uncategorized Fractal was designed so people would take turns and others could revive those who got killed and ported right to the bottom. Players could support each other with speed buffs as well and change abilities for such buffs as well. Mesmers could make portals for the platforms if someone in your group had problems with a particular section.

This was good game design. It encouraged working together and enhanced the sense of group gameplay.

Another example of good game design was the Molten Legion final boss fight. That was tough, fun and memorable and even if you wiped, it gave players the feeling that they could succeed if they tweaked their builds and came up with a new strategy. It was not reliant on a single, solitary game skill like jumping which is not shared on the same level by all players.

Frizz’s lab gutted both the elements cooperation and build-tweaking that makes GW2 fun IMO. It was a horrible design and I really hope ArenaNet never gates a storyline with something like that again.

Frizz’s Lab? Ugh, never got past that. No fun at all.

I liked Frizz’s Lab. I had some problems at first because I was with my main, a ranger, and my pet couldn’t stay alive (yeah, big news). Also, there were two mesmers on my group and their illusions and phantasms were useless, too. My group couldn’t deal enough damage, the fight took too long and we wiped several times.

Then I tried with my necromancer (not a MM) and it was a breeze.

The fight was alright, I think, but not for some classes. That’s not cool at all. It would be awesome if every class could do it as easily as my necromancer could.

DoctorOverlord.8620:

GoldenTruth.2853:

I thought the Frizz fight was the best fight they made since Giganticus Lupicus, and excluding the Mai Trin fight dragging on forever (along with her undodgeable shadowshot), AR was a step way above their other dungeons.

I have to disagree. The “fight” was a badly made jumping puzzle, nothing more.

The only skill that let you survive was being able to jump on top of poorly designed boxes. You could not support your teammates if someone was not a skilled jumper and there was no build you could make that would assist with jumping on the boxes. You either had those jumping skills or you didn’t and unless most of your group did as well, this gated the entire Aetherblade storyline and prevented people from seeing it. I saw enough posts when this content was live to know that my group of friends were not the only ones who had this issue.

Previous jumping puzzles in dungeons allowed players to support each other. For example the sloped stairway with electrified pulses in the Uncategorized Fractal was designed so people would take turns and others could revive those who got killed and ported right to the bottom. Players could support each other with speed buffs as well and change abilities for such buffs as well. Mesmers could make portals for the platforms if someone in your group had problems with a particular section.

This was good game design. It encouraged working together and enhanced the sense of group gameplay.

Another example of good game design was the Molten Legion final boss fight. That was tough, fun and memorable and even if you wiped, it gave players the feeling that they could succeed if they tweaked their builds and came up with a new strategy. It was not reliant on a single, solitary game skill like jumping which is not shared on the same level by all players.

Frizz’s lab gutted both the elements cooperation and build-tweaking that makes GW2 fun IMO. It was a horrible design and I really hope ArenaNet never gates a storyline with something like that again.

Jumping on top of the boxes was incredibly easy and I don’t see how even an unskilled jumper could miss such a basic jump (and even if they did fail I don’t see how that’s any worse than saying a fight is poorly designed because someone is a bad dodger). You could even dodge or blink through the short laser if needed.

The hard part was not the jumping on top of a stationary box, it was doing so while paying attention to the golem pulls. This, however, does provide elements of cooperation; group stability, group aegis, interrupts, moving as a group not individually.

The reason why I consider it so good is because it is a relatively short fight (2-3 min max) which had a focus on constant movement (watching the lasers while moving in a circle and getting on boxes when needed), paying careful attention to your surroundings (noticing where the lasers were and when the golems were about to pull), and having a clear understanding of the mechanics involved.

Molten Firestorm and Berserker were good boss fights, I can agree with that (albeit they were too easy and needed some damage tweaking). However, I feel Frizz’s Lab had much better mechanics overall.

Good for you. After failing miserably nearly 5 or so times on 3 run attempts, I swore off that dungeon for good. Frizz was just awful. That fight was horrible to deal with, yet another fight that punished you for trying to revive, for not being fast enough, constant pulling, and beams killing you in 2 hits at best. No thanks. If that garbage returns, I’ll just watch a video of Twilight Assault and pretend I did it.

Nilkemia.8507:

Good for you. After failing miserably nearly 5 or so times on 3 run attempts, I swore off that dungeon for good. Frizz was just awful. That fight was horrible to deal with, yet another fight that punished you for trying to revive, for not being fast enough, constant pulling, and beams killing you in 2 hits at best. No thanks. If that garbage returns, I’ll just watch a video of Twilight Assault and pretend I did it.

Is it a bad design if a boss that many people are unfamiliar with is somewhat challenging and causes you to wipe a few times O_o?

It wasn’t the boss that was killing them, it was the cheap mechanics of the dungeon and the sense that the player couldn’t really do anything to do better aside from doing better at the jumping. The other issue was the fact that the golems (and thus their pull tells) were nigh invisible when the player was trying as hard as they could to just stay way ahead of the beams. If the beams had moved about half of their speed during the fight, so that players had more time to be doing SOMETHING other than constantly fleeing from them, then the fight might have been more fair. As it was, most players had to do everything they could just to stay ahead of the laser walls, and thus the golems got charged up and became nigh unkillable.

panzer.6034:

Is F/U getting fixed???

Yeah, I’m wondering the same thing. Anet seems content to introduce new problems rather than fix ones that have existed for months though so dont get your hopes up.

Kamui.3150:

It wasn’t the boss that was killing them, it was the cheap mechanics of the dungeon and the sense that the player couldn’t really do anything to do better aside from doing better at the jumping.

Well it wasn’t really just “jumping” it was keeping track of the laser and knowing when it was best to be on a box and when it was best to be running around. I don’t see how being forced to better understand and pay attention to your surroundings is a negative.

Kamui.3150:

The other issue was the fact that the golems (and thus their pull tells) were nigh invisible when the player was trying as hard as they could to just stay way ahead of the beams. If the beams had moved about half of their speed during the fight, so that players had more time to be doing SOMETHING other than constantly fleeing from them, then the fight might have been more fair. As it was, most players had to do everything they could just to stay ahead of the laser walls, and thus the golems got charged up and became nigh unkillable.

The golem pulls were somewhat hard to see I’ll give you that. However, it only becomes difficult to keep track of everything in the last phase. In the short beam phase you could easily just stack on a box. While in the large beam phase you could easily kite them in a circle. The last phase doesn’t last very long and it stresses combining what you just learned while giving a sense of urgency. Besides, they were just standard golems so even when they went invuln it isn’t like hit and run tactics were useless against a small health pool. The fight stressed surviving over simply dpsing (though I’m sure you could probably just brute-force it with enough dps like every other fight in the game).

Nilkemia.8507:

Good for you. After failing miserably nearly 5 or so times on 3 run attempts, I swore off that dungeon for good. Frizz was just awful. That fight was horrible to deal with, yet another fight that punished you for trying to revive, for not being fast enough, constant pulling, and beams killing you in 2 hits at best. No thanks. If that garbage returns, I’ll just watch a video of Twilight Assault and pretend I did it.

Fights the “punish” you for reviving also encourage ress skills, Like banner, toss r, etc. the issue is people aren’t willing to adapt to these things. =/

Been there, tried that, still died. No thanks.

Either the downed players died before I could revive them with a revive skill, or I got pulled/stunned by something else. It was awful. So quit pretending like people who failed that didn’t try different things.

Nilkemia, if giving something a mere 5 tries like you said above and then declaring the content garbage gives the impression you dont appreciate challenging content. That’s ok. For others AR (and MF) are some of the best content GW2 had to offer during the first year. I’m looking forward to more designs by those two teams (I liked MF better but AR was still great).

Mastruq.2463:

Nilkemia, if giving something a mere 5 tries like you said above and then declaring the content garbage gives the impression you dont appreciate challenging content. That’s ok. For others AR (and MF) are some of the best content GW2 had to offer during the first year. I’m looking forward to more designs by those two teams (I liked MF better but AR was still great).

To be more specific, at least 5 times each on the 1st and 2nd run attempts. The 3rd I tried nearly 10 attempts to get past Frizz, and between everyone dying one by one, eventually leaving the party, and the fight being partly based on luck, it wasn’t fun. The Molten Facility was better. While it had it’s own share of annoying things, at least it didn’t have a room that some couldn’t ever get past.

GoldenTruth.2853:

Jumping on top of the boxes was incredibly easy and I don’t see how even an unskilled jumper could miss such a basic jump (and even if they did fail I don’t see how that’s any worse than saying a fight is poorly designed because someone is a bad dodger). You could even dodge or blink through the short laser if needed.

The hard part was not the jumping on top of a stationary box, it was doing so while paying attention to the golem pulls.
[snip]
paying careful attention to your surroundings (noticing where the lasers were and when the golems were about to pull), and having a clear understanding of the mechanics involved.
[snip]

Yeah, understanding the mechanics but being visually impaired (blind in left eye, poor vision in the other) made that dungeon barrels of fun.

It was impossible for me to tell if the box I was jumping onto was one I would actually land on, or a portion of box I’d just slide right back off of. And I could not see the golem tells if they were at any distance from me. Couple that with the fact I played with an engie who wasn’t traited for endurance regen and we don’t have tons of stability options, our group guardian could only do so much for me while I slid off box edges and got yanked around the room by golems.

I made it after thirty+ tries. Once my group knew how I needed to be carried and precautions that had to be taken, we did it a second time, because we all wanted monocles (none of us got them and I had to buy mine for sixty flippin’ gold).

I had no trouble with Frizz himself in the slightest or any of the rest of the dungeon, even Mai was a cakewalk in comparison. It’s not always a case of a player being unskilled, but the player having a true disadvantage that, when combined with particular mechanics, makes certain content a near impossibility.

I’ve got my Sunbringer title, my tequatl wings, I play fractals frequently, I’m generally not too terrible with jumping puzzles, etc. It’s only when I can’t see that I have any trouble with anything in the game. And I don’t play a forgiving class.

Grumbling about past wonky content aside, I do hope a lesson was learned and that the new dungeon path is challenging but a bit more.. considerate. What I really want is new and expanded lore for TA and the sylvari, honestly. And to just have fun.

Alfador.7649:

panzer.6034:

Is F/U getting fixed???

Yeah, I’m wondering the same thing. Anet seems content to introduce new problems rather than fix ones that have existed for months though so dont get your hopes up.

Well, they did update AC. Also, they said that they knew TA was a problem and it was high on there list. Seems like a great time to fix things but it would be nice to have confirmation.