Guild Wars 2

yes was rly dissapointed when i read this.
i really wanted the build template from gw1

now i just made different characters (same class) for different builds.

Why do you think this means no build template? This item does NOT replace a potential build template system (that works in a city….like GW1’s templates did).

This item is to fleece stupid players with too much money.

I’ll join your QQ fest when an Dev states there will be no build template system.

Disgusting move, I didn’t expect that they would go this low to make extra money.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Why do you think this means no build template? This item does NOT replace a potential build template system (that works in a city….like GW1’s templates did).

This item is to fleece stupid players with too much money.

I’ll join your QQ fest when an Dev states there will be no build template system.

Well, why would they implement build templates when they can make more money this way. Typical anet.

It’s less than 10g. What’s the big deal? At least the game lets you change your traits, a lot of games don’t even do that. There sure is a lot of whining about this game lately. Be grateful for what we do have don’t complain about what we don’t have.

I would have thought they’d move to free trait re-specs at some point, but instead they put them in the gem store.

sigmataun.4103:

It’s less than 10g. What’s the big deal? At least the game lets you change your traits, a lot of games don’t even do that. There sure is a lot of whining about this game lately. Be grateful for what we do have don’t complain about what we don’t have.

People with your mindset are scary. They seem to be actually happy that ANet is adding functions in the gemstore which would belong in-game as free updates. Is it like, ANet made the game, so we must be eternally grateful?

Anet recently created the account bound wallet which will save everyone back slots.

You can reset your traits for 3 silvers….

Stop complaining and be grateful…..

Aye.8392:

I would have thought they’d move to free trait re-specs at some point, but instead they put them in the gem store.

Is 3 silver really that different than free?

This is purely a convenience item, which is exactly what /should/ be added to the cash shop.

im more concerned with saving trait set ups than being able to respec on demand… i can see them adding templates still (but only accessible after resetting trait points)

What the hell are you people talking about?! There is no trait reset item in the gemstore!! O.o or am i missing something here?? I browses through the gemstore today and havent seen anything like it….. So if you gonna say something like this then you should at least explain yourself!!

I don’t care that much about respeccing on the fly, what I really want is to be able to save templates.

That said, don’t really see that much of a problem of this item on the gem store. The way I see it is:

GW1: Respec in any outpost for free, builds completely locked out when you go to an explorable area.

GW2: Respec for very cheap on any city and some explorable areas (all cities and 6 regular maps), trait points locked but with the posibility to change major traits anytime anywhere when out of combat, one separated area (heart of the mysts) with unlimited free retraits for trying them out.

Each one has its advantages and disadvantages (can’t retrait without visiting trainer in GW2, can’t change anything about your build between fights in GW1), but really the only thing I miss from GW1 when it comes to builds is template saving, and to be honest I don’t see how having this item on the gem store has anything to do with the posibility of saving templates in the future. I see it more as a convenience item like the bank access express or the revive orbs.

BTW, one way I do see Anet using the gem store for template saving is like they do with bank and bag slots, giving a set number of template slots (2 or 3) with the posibility of purchasing more.

AncientYs.8613:

What the hell are you people talking about?! There is no trait reset item in the gemstore!! O.o or am i missing something here?? I browses through the gemstore today and havent seen anything like it….. So if you gonna say something like this then you should at least explain yourself!!

wut

I’m not sure how it’s not appearing for you, AncientYs, but today’s update added a single-use gemstore item that resets trait points.

Seeing as you can already do that at trainers for an essentially nominal fee, including both the trainer fee at waypoint fees to get there, this item is almost purely convenience, which makes it not that different from the Black Lion merchant, trading post, and bank items. I think it’s a silly thing to spend gems on, but if someone wants to use it, they’re welcome to it, and there’s nothing offensive to me in the idea of it.

As for whether resetting traits should be completely flexible and free (GW1) or not (GW2,) I think the system is generally fine as-is.There are days when I think I’d like to try respeccing to a Water-focused Elementalist instead of a fire one, I’ll admit, but the slight hassle involved gives a sense of permanence to my decisions and character concept; I find that commitment rewarding, and it means I don’t have to second guess myself as much.

“I’m fighting destroyers who are immune to burning! I guess I’d better respec.” <- This option sounds like it should make me happy, because I’d be more effective in combat, but I’d actually be less happy, because then I’d have to choose between being more effective with the hassle of having to respec temporarily, or the convenience of not respeccing and just being less powerful. As the game is, I just have to suck it up and fight with a (very minor) disadvantage; that ends up being more rewarding by creating drama. Choice isn’t always a good thing.

If you don’t want to use it..well..don’t. You can already retrait for a very nominal cost, the gem store one is basically for convenience..just like the revive orbs.

Many intelligent players are getting tired of the tactics that anet is forcing us into when it is clear that some of their decisions are not for the enjoyment of the player at all.

In the future we’ll probably get a new update where we can save our builds. it’ll be 1600 gems though. Get ready.

Charming Rogue.8071:

In the future we’ll probably get a new update where we can save our builds. it’ll be 1600 gems though. Get ready.

I would happily pay 1600 gems if I can save a build for WvW.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Why do you think this means no build template? This item does NOT replace a potential build template system (that works in a city….like GW1’s templates did).

This item is to fleece stupid players with too much money.

I’ll join your QQ fest when an Dev states there will be no build template system.

What I would expect from a Template System is save/load builds everywhere out of combat except in dungeons/pvp games. I don’t want to tip far into the whole skill/combat system farce but if they actually want to add depth and deversity to the combat someday in the future each of these steps will lower the players convenience significantly. It’s already a pain in the * having to load lion’s arch and go back just to respec if you change between a WvW/GvG/Dungeon/Solo Build. And there not really that many possibilities right now. How will it be if finally each dungeons needs a different build? And WvW builds have a much higher variety for team set ups? It will be utterly painful for the whole group. I really hoped they would remove the stats from items someday and revamp their system while bringing a template system (that would be a light convience in the current system, you’re right). Whatever, I guess hoping in this game is really depressing.

Zylonite.5913:

Charming Rogue.8071:

In the future we’ll probably get a new update where we can save our builds. it’ll be 1600 gems though. Get ready.

I would happily pay 1600 gems if I can save a build for WvW.

-.- Folk’s becoming scary.

Traveller.7496:

Is it like, ANet made the game, so we must be eternally grateful?

They are allowing you to play said game for free. So, ya. A little bit of gratitude towards them wouldn’t hurt.

Though, if the players really wanted this type of frivolous content to be free, because they’re too lazy to port to town, I’m sure they would be more than willing to add a 13$-15$ monthly subscription fee. Then you could get all the “free” content you could want. You would just pay gold for it then..

…Like you can do now.

To me, the more scarier mindset is the “I don’t care, everything should be free for me” one.

There is one fun fact about all the trait point reset and template saving.
They already had template loading ingame via chat codes but removed it because people were able to get monster skills into pvp skill bars.

Considering every “living” story now has something that cost about the same as monthly fee that will be gone 2 weeks later… The only scary thing are people in denial.
Subscription is cheaper. And you don’t pay to win. Get off your high horse and stop sucking the kitten out of anets kitten .

HiSaZuL.2843:

Considering every “living” story now has something that cost about the same as monthly fee that will be gone 2 weeks later… The only scary thing are people in denial.
Subscription is cheaper. And you don’t pay to win. Get off your high horse and stop sucking the kitten out of anets kitten .

So, everyone, including yourself, buys everything Anet puts up on the Gem Store (with bought gems), every LS update? I know I don’t. That’s the only way that the subscription is cheaper. Unless everyone comes down with a bad case of OCD or the “gimme-gimme-gimmes”, I don’t see the whole playerbase doing that.

Since I started playing, on the headstart weekend, I think I maybe spent 40$ on this game in gems. I bought a bank slot, unlimited mining pick, a pack of kite fortunes, and an armor set for my engineer. Everything else I bought with farmed gold, I then converted.

That averages to about 3$ a month. Ya, subscription would be WAY cheaper.

/sarcasm

I completely agree with OP’s sentiment.

Templates should be a quality of life addition. They do not belong in the gem store. If retraiting cost 7-10s when away from a trainer traits tab, that would be welcome addition to the game.

Making retraiting cost 2-3g per use? That’s not greed…that’s stupidity. I have to wonder if the person who thought this up even plays the game.

At the moment I don’t think this item is much of a problem. The problem will come if/when more new content is added to the game or existing content is updated like Tequatl and the new TA path and then either the mechanics require different builds at each stage or parties demand it. Effectively that will require players to buy and carry these items.

(I’ve already encountered a similar issue with repair canisters where some people have insisted everyone should be using them in a dungeon instead of taking 2 seconds to WP back to the entrance to repair their armor.)

But at the moment I just think it’s a fairly pointless waste of time. Traits are just one part of your build. You can already change your armor and weapons (assuming you have the alternatives with you or have bank access), your skills and which trait perks you’re using any time you’re not in combat. The only thing you can’t change is the actual trait lines you’re using.

On the one hand having written that it seems fairly silly, it should be all or nothing really – either we can change our whole build any time we’re outside of combat or we have to go back to a town/other non-combat area to change anything like in GW1.

On the other hand it means unless you’re doing a full min/max build you can probably get away without changing your traits in the middle of a dungeon or explorable area or whatever it is you’re doing.

Lol, just Lol.

I seriously don’t see how people can be kicking up such a * storm over this item. It’s there for convenience sake, nothing more. The ~8s (incl WP costs) you pay to retrait is bloody minimal, sure it’s a slight hindrance and that’s why the retrait item was introduced. I for one couldn’t be kitten d to buy it.

One the note of “Pay to Win,” pls show me one item currently in the gem store that falls into this category.

Anet please sell me an expansion. Don’t make money with stuff like this.

SeeRower.3852:

Lol, just Lol.

I seriously don’t see how people can be kicking up such a * storm over this item. It’s there for convenience sake, nothing more. The ~8s (incl WP costs) you pay to retrait is bloody minimal, sure it’s a slight hindrance and that’s why the retrait item was introduced. I for one couldn’t be kitten d to buy it.

One the note of “Pay to Win,” pls show me one item currently in the gem store that falls into this category.

I know right?

and P2W…there isn’t one. Its all convenience and looks.

I do think that 70gems is to much (seeing how its only 8s to respec in LA). Esp with Gems being 100 for 5g34s as of last night. For the cost in gold alone (vs the 8s) it should be a soul bound Item that has unlimited uses

Traveller.7496:

sigmataun.4103:

It’s less than 10g. What’s the big deal? At least the game lets you change your traits, a lot of games don’t even do that. There sure is a lot of whining about this game lately. Be grateful for what we do have don’t complain about what we don’t have.

People with your mindset are scary. They seem to be actually happy that ANet is adding functions in the gemstore which would belong in-game as free updates. Is it like, ANet made the game, so we must be eternally grateful?

What makes you think it belongs as a free feature?
It’s not about being eternally grateful to ANet. It’s about recognizing the lee-way between the players and the company.

To me, it’s players like you who are scary.
Insisting that the majority of features be free, when the existing method is already extremely convenient and multitudes better than parallels in other games, and refusing to acknowledge the devs/marketers’ perspective.

The Trait-Reset item is for people who value their time more than their money.
What is wrong with that trade-off? They’re no different than the Revive Orbs and Repair Canisters which are also pure convenience. If you value your money/gold more, don’t buy it and stick with spend the extra minute changing traits the usual way.

Redenaz.8631:

I’m not sure how it’s not appearing for you, AncientYs, but today’s update added a single-use gemstore item that resets trait points.

Seeing as you can already do that at trainers for an essentially nominal fee, including both the trainer fee at waypoint fees to get there, this item is almost purely convenience, which makes it not that different from the Black Lion merchant, trading post, and bank items. I think it’s a silly thing to spend gems on, but if someone wants to use it, they’re welcome to it, and there’s nothing offensive to me in the idea of it.

As for whether resetting traits should be completely flexible and free (GW1) or not (GW2,) I think the system is generally fine as-is.There are days when I think I’d like to try respeccing to a Water-focused Elementalist instead of a fire one, I’ll admit, but the slight hassle involved gives a sense of permanence to my decisions and character concept; I find that commitment rewarding, and it means I don’t have to second guess myself as much.

“I’m fighting destroyers who are immune to burning! I guess I’d better respec.” <- This option sounds like it should make me happy, because I’d be more effective in combat, but I’d actually be less happy, because then I’d have to choose between being more effective with the hassle of having to respec temporarily, or the convenience of not respeccing and just being less powerful. As the game is, I just have to suck it up and fight with a (very minor) disadvantage; that ends up being more rewarding by creating drama. Choice isn’t always a good thing.

You couldn’t change your traits etc in GW1 when you were outside a city…and before nightfall you had to talk with a trainer…so it’s basically the same, except the 3s fee.

IMO I would even pay 2k gems for an unlimited uses that still requires u to pay a small amount of silver(should still be more then trainer price) for each time u use it.

Heck I would buy one for each of my 8 chars for a total price of 16k gems

They’re getting really dumb with the monetization. First we have the transmutation stones preventing us from ever getting a proper wardrobe system and now this. Build templates should have been in at launch along with a wardrobe. I guess there’s still hope of an expansion coming along and fixing everything but I’m more skeptical than ever.

Fungalfoot.7213:

They’re getting really dumb with the monetization. First we have the transmutation stones preventing us from ever getting a proper wardrobe system and now this. Build templates should have been in at launch along with a wardrobe. I guess there’s still hope of an expansion coming along and fixing everything but I’m more skeptical than ever.

Those sorts of things you’re griping about aren’t what an expansion would be “fixing” if one does get done. Those are all convenience features, which you still have access to through the gem-gold exchange, and are meant for people value time > money.

Seriously, if you care about looks, focus your gold towards your looks. Buy the gems to get the Transmutation Crystals.
There’s nothing wrong with the current system, there’s no “proper wardrobe system” to be converted to cause what’s better is a matter of opinion.
Just prioritize your goals, making gold in this game is not hard – The game is simply designed to make you choose.

DreamOfACure.4382:

There’s nothing wrong with the current system, there’s no “proper wardrobe system” to be converted to – Just a matter of prioritizing your goals. Making gold in this game is not hard – The game is simply designed to make you choose.

Play DCUO. Maybe then you’ll come to realize just how absurdly wrong you are in defending this travesty of cosmetic progression. When nothing is permanent and everything is transient there really is no real progression to be had. And that’s part of why people are dropping the game.

Sure, I can grind those hundred golds and get myself some neat armor, transmute it and look real dandy. And then whenever I feel the urge to go back to my old rags I’ll grind some more gold and repurchase everything and once more shell out some gems for transmutation stones. Sounds fun? No, of course it doesn’t. Because it isn’t.

And the same thing goes for build templates. You can only make your players jump through so many hoops before it gets old.

Again this is all for convenience. And what monetization are you referring to? I have not spent a cent of RL money on the gem store, all my gems I got from trading gold. That said, this has nothing to do with templates, the trait reset stones don’t let you save a certain trait setup, they just let you reset your traits on the fly. If you don’t like the item then don’t buy it, Anet isn’t cramming it down your throat.

Fungalfoot.7213:

When nothing is permanent and everything is transient there really is no real progression to be had. And that’s part of why people are dropping the game.

Invalid comparison when in this game, plenty of stuff is completely permanent.

It’s not the cosmetic progression that’s an issue, you’re trying to make it an issue by associating it with temporary cosmetics.

—

Again, it’s all up to you.
If you decide you don’t like your new look, then it’s your own fickleness that’s to blame at that point – or the fact you went and replaced your old gear instead of transmuting dungeon exotics or cheap crafted exotics like most players I know do.

And I already acknowledged the build-templates issue – Which has nothing to do with anything in this thread except for people’s misunderstanding of how the new Trait Reset item won’t prevent it from being a reality.

SeeRower.3852:

Again this is all for convenience. And what monetization are you referring to? I have not spent a cent of RL money on the gem store, all my gems I got from trading gold. That said, this has nothing to do with templates, the trait reset stones don’t let you save a certain trait setup, they just let you reset your traits on the fly. If you don’t like the item then don’t buy it, Anet isn’t cramming it down your throat.

Convenience. As if it somehow justifies everything.

The reality is that there is a time and place for monetization. You need to balance it carefully so it doesn’t infringe of the playability of the product and more importantly the level of fun your players are having. Once it gets to a point where the player feels like he needs to spend gems to have a good time… well, that’s about when your game dies.

Being too heavyhanded about this is just going to make people turn away. A far better way of doing business is to create quality cosmetic options and then charge your players for those. Issue with Guild Wars 2 is that, as I mentioned before, most of those cosmetics are transient and as such not really worth the dosh. I’ve not once felt compelled to purchase a skin since I know it would just mean another bunch of wasted bank slots. I have on the other hand spent a bunch of gems on minis, bank tabs and things like character slots.

People have been asking for a way to switch traits on the fly since the game launched. Sure, it’s for the sake of convenience but a lot of important things are. Fast travel for example. They could easily monetize that under convenience and yet I have a feeling that you’d be pretty upset if they did. This game needs to develop and become more convenient for the players to play and progress in. Locking all of these options behind some kind of paywall based on one time use items… yeah, I’ll pass on that future. It stinks.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Invalid comparison when in this game, plenty of stuff is completely permanent.

It’s not the cosmetic progression that’s an issue, you’re trying to make it an issue by associating it with temporary cosmetics.

The only permanent skins currently in the game would be the ones unlocked by achievements. Everything else is transient and that’s including those offered by the gem shop.

DreamOfACure.4382:

If you decide you don’t like your new look, then it’s your own fickleness that’s to blame at that point – or the fact you went and replaced your old gear instead of transmuting dungeon exotics or cheap crafted exotics like most players I know do.

You’re right. Curse me for wanting to wear different outfits. I do after all always wear the same outfit every single day in real life too so why should a game be any different. Curse my fickleness!

That was sarcasm in case you didn’t catch it. I really don’t think a proper cosmetic progression system in a game which advertised itself as being based on cosmetic progression is too much to ask for.

Fungalfoot.7213:

The only permanent skins currently in the game would be the ones unlocked by achievements. Everything else is transient and that’s including those offered by the gem shop.

Oh my gosh… That’s what you’re hung up about?

There is seriously something sad with your perspective.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority of players make use of Transmutation Crystals to swap around normal gear too. Not just skins.

If you’re bummed out because all the gear you like is only the transient stuff, it’s your own misfortune for having such narrow taste.

And no, a completely personal disapproval is not validation for ANet to change things.
The majority are still happy with how things are going, INCLUDING where things look to be headed.

Sorry kid, but you’re just the minority the marketing doesn’t give a —-- about, and there’s no fault to be given – The dev’s can’t make everyone happy.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Oh my gosh… That’s what you’re hung up about?

There is seriously something sad with your perspective.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority of players make use of Transmutation Crystals to swap around normal gear too. Not just skins.

If you’re bummed out because all the gear you like is only the transient stuff, it’s your own misfortune for having such narrow taste.

And no, a completely personal disapproval is not validation for ANet to change things.
The majority are still happy with how things are going, INCLUDING where things look to be headed.

Sorry kid, but you’re just the minority the marketing doesn’t give a —-- about, and there’s no fault to be given – The dev’s can’t make everyone happy.

There is something sad about wanting a wardrode system in which you unlock skins which you can then switch to whenever you want to as opposed to wanting to get nickel and dimed every time you want a change of pants?

And I don’t recall the majority ever electing you as their spokesperson. Must have missed the memo. Also, you might want to lay off with the petty insults. Pretty sure I’m older than you.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Sorry kid, but you’re just the minority

Source?

Fungalfoot.7213:

And I don’t recall the majority ever electing you as their spokesperson. Must have missed the memo.

It was in one of the Temp content.

bad joke I know but maaaaan I can’t resist.

Yeah Convenience does justify it all.

Every single item on the gem store is for convenience. They are all items we can easily do without. Your example of fast travel is, imo, invalid. Had Anet not Advertised that fast travel will be a feature and then attached a gem price to it, so you can make use of the convenience, I personally wouldn’t have an issue.

Also I don’t remember anything about the game being cosmetic progression orientated. Got a source for that? I know that they said it won’t be be gear orientated, but that, to me, doesn’t mean it’ll me cosmetically orientated, it just means that at top tier gear doesn’t mean squat, it all comes down to how well you lay out your build and you skill in playing it.

On the note of feeling that we need to fork out gems to have fun; huh? How does that even make sense? I don’t see anything in the gem store is a necessity for fun?

SeeRower.3852:

Again this is all for convenience. And what monetization are you referring to? I have not spent a cent of RL money on the gem store, all my gems I got from trading gold. That said, this has nothing to do with templates, the trait reset stones don’t let you save a certain trait setup, they just let you reset your traits on the fly. If you don’t like the item then don’t buy it, Anet isn’t cramming it down your throat.

I’ve spent a lot of real money in the gem store — something like $2k across my accounts. (Remember that the gems you buy via in-game gold are all sold by people who paid cash; if people stop paying cash & selling for gold, the gold-to-gems ratio increases until they start paying again.) I paid for char slots, convenience harvesting gear, bank slots, inventory slots — and also sold for gold so I’d spend less time on farming when that farming stopped being fun. I’m taking a break from playing right now, but it was all within my budget for entertainment (this was taking the place of other kinds of entertainment), so I don’t regret it.

I do object to trait resets for gems — I was fine with paying for convenience for harvesting equipment or inventory slots because neither is core to what makes the game fun — they’re grinds I get caught up in, but only that. OTOH — playing with builds is part of the core of what makes the game fun.

If you have to travel to reset traits — there is nothing fun about waiting for the game to load another map (SSD, so not loading data from disk, but it still takes some time) or waiting for your character to run to the trainer or back. It contributes nothing to gameplay — it just discourages me from one of the parts of the game that is most interesting (playing with builds, trying to find better synergies). I have heard the argument that there should be a consequence to decisions — but IMO, wasting time on a bad build is a consequence (and is probably worse than the cost).

I’d been living without a good trait reset system, so you could say that nothing changed.

But releasing a 1-time-use item which costs gems tells me that they are more interested in making money via the gem store than in making the game fun for people like me. (I know, occasionally these will drop from dailies or the like — nonetheless.) That’s their decision — but making it less fun makes me less interested in playing. Another reason to quit is probably a blessing (I was playing more than I’d intended when I bought GW1 six years ago) — but that’s what this is, at least for me.

SeeRower.3852:

Also I don’t remember anything about the game being cosmetic progression orientated. Got a source for that? I know that they said it won’t be be gear orientated, but that, to me, doesn’t mean it’ll me cosmetically orientated, it just means that at top tier gear doesn’t mean squat, it all comes down to how well you lay out your build and you skill in playing it.

This was the approach they took w/ GW1, where I thought it worked well. [I wouldn’t have bought GW2 if I hadn’t been playing GW1.]

SeeRower.3852:

On the note of feeling that we need to fork out gems to have fun; huh? How does that even make sense? I don’t see anything in the gem store is a necessity for fun?

Playing with builds is part of the core of what makes the game interesting to me. Making us choose between wasting time and wasting money for the interesting part leaves me much less interested in the game.