Guild Wars 2

The last thing people expected in this game was to be enticed to “gamble”. And, I have to agree.

Perhaps something in our society today has lessened peoples restraint when gambling is involved. Society used to have very strict controls on its use because of its negative effect on many people. Of course, the proponents of gambling think it is a great idea because the house always wins. And, in the end, the golden rule won. The people who have the gold make the rules and we now have indian casinos and state run lottery pools. It is our free right as humans to do what we want with our money right? By golly, if I want to wash hundreds of dollars of my money down the drain that is my God given right.

Enter GW2. Does the gamble of getting special items entice people to spend real money in the gem store? Lol, of course it does, and judging by the exchange rate, alot! Was there ever a doubt? Lol. No, it was a sure bet. Were some players going to be unable to control themselves? Absolutely…And so was born an in-game activity. A pure business decision to take advantage of players’ desires and/or weaknesses to pad a corporate bottom line. All protected by and cloaked in our freedom of self-determination.

Are there no workhouses? Somehow a sentiment I did not expect to see in GW2.

What? Most modern countries have very strict and complex gambling laws that keep plenty of lawyers busy. Underage gambling is usually outright banned.
That said, “gambling” activities like these boxes are often a very grey area and I’d be very curious what happened if somebody was bothered enough to drag this in front of a court.

If a company offers a product that someone wants, there’s nothing wrong with that. How would they know if a customer who has a problem with an addiction to virtual fluff? That’s something personal, and the one with the problem should be smart enough to recognize it and seek help.

It comes down to the freedom of choice. Anet makes premium content available to all players. Completely optional premium content. And heaven forbid someone wanting to spend money to buy something from the Gem store that can be obtained for free by doing events.

Can you imagine what life would be like if people got this mad over losing the lottery?

Just because you bought the ticket doesn’t mean you’re entitled to the prize.

Then again, you can’t buy the prize on the TP for less than the value of a bag of circus peanuts, so maybe this is a bad analogy.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

There was a time when people expected to police themselves… when self discipline was one of the foundations of coming of age…

Apparently it has been replaced with an attitude of “if they haven’t made it illegal… it’s someone elses fault if I do it and have negative results”….

The mechanic in game would not meet the legal definition of gambling, as defined below, because the items in the gift boxes have no value. They cannot be redemmed for real money. The fact people will spend real money, and alot of it, on the chance they will get something of personal value to themselves only is a matter of personal choice.

“A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.” Per USLegal.com

Many laugh at the thought that people spend real money for, actually, nothing. The truth is that is exactly what many people do, spend real money, and in large amounts that have a measureable impact on the bottom line of this game. Those purchases make the game possible.

We all know however, the items that “have no value” in a legal sense have very real value in the game. That very real value is a very strong motivation to spend real money, lots, and often too much. The game is very efffective that way in marketing items we have a wish to have. Good job anet. That polish is why we enjoy the game, the quality of the art etc.

Yet, gambling need not be in the mix. To ignore the power of the game over some players is just pretending ignorance. Anet could exercise some social reponsibility here if they chose to.

Anthile.8493:

What? Most modern countries have very strict and complex gambling laws that keep plenty of lawyers busy. Underage gambling is usually outright banned.
That said, “gambling” activities like these boxes are often a very grey area and I’d be very curious what happened if somebody was bothered enough to drag this in front of a court.

You can bet the lawers have been all over this type of marketing, you a buying a chest ( contents may vary) though some times it may contain better items than others you always get some thing.

If that sort of marketing was classified as gambling the colector card games would have been in court long ago. You by $500 worth of boster packs in the hope of getting the snergle of ultimate power its a gamble but not gambling

My feelings are simple. It’s disrespectful for ANet to offer desirable and exclusive items through RNG chests. It’s doubly so to introduce monthly events just to promote these RNG chests. There’s no shortage of people who would buy these exclusive items if they were sold in the traditional method (i.e. paying Gems for exactly the item you want) instead of what is essentially gambling with unpublished odds of winning. I’m all for ANet offering items people want and I’m all for them making money, but the way they’re going about it seems too much like Maple Story and too little like Guild Wars.

Honestly, my thoughts on this whole gamble thing? I think they are forced to do it.

Just food for thought.

Shadow of the Mad King, we had Lottery Chests. Tons of complaints and mostly everyone said to just put the items in the store normally. No one wanted them at all. But they didn’t listen to us at all and did it again. Then they made Mad King Lottery Chests after we just complained about the last lottery chests. But that didn’t stop them, they went and did it yet again.

Lost Shores. Yet more Lottery Chests. Tons of complaints again and people saying to put the items in the store instead. Yet again, they didn’t listen to us and ignored the complaints and did it once again.

Now Wintersday. You guessed it, Lottery Chests yet again. Tons of complaints again and people saying to just put the items in the store and stop with all this lottery nonsense.

Not a single response from Anet about why they keep doing Lottery when they know pretty much everyone hates it. Not a peep whatsoever about this constant Lottery stuff, when there are tons of complaints about it all the time.

Now how much you want to bet that when the next event comes around, we are going to get yet another Lottery Chests of some kind? No matter how much we hate them, they ignore us and keep doing it over and over. So like I said, my idea? They are forced to do it. I would like to think that Anet isn’t ignoring us and do actually want to stop this ridiculous lottery business that everyone is complaining about, so I am assuming they are forced to do this.

That’s my thought on this whole Lottery issue. Take it for what you will.

Except that when you play the lottery you can get a decent idea as to what are your odds of winning something. That’s not the case here. In most countries it’s required to disclose the odds in order to run a legal gambling business. That’s not the case here.
What are the chances of getting, say, a minipet here? I have no idea, and that’s the reason why I won’t spend any real money during this event.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Not a single response from Anet about why they keep doing Lottery when they know pretty much everyone hates it. Not a peep whatsoever about this constant Lottery stuff, when there are tons of complaints about it all the time.

Is a response really necessary? It’s pretty obvious the only response they can offer is appearant to everyone…“because lottery stuff is making us tons of money.”

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Now how much you want to bet that when the next event comes around, we are going to get yet another Lottery Chests of some kind?

I don’t think there’s any doubt they’re going to have a monthly event solely for the purpose of selling exclusive items through lottery chests.

It actually says Gambling on the box (if you bought the physical copy) so i expected it to an extent, do i agree with it, no not really..

I’m also surprised it got into Australia as the gambling laws are pretty high here…

Allowing children to gamble is illegal in Aus etc, so i was shocked, but hey this is the internet where everything and anything legal and illegal can be done by big businesses. So i shouldn’t be too shocked i guess.

Here’s what people AREN’T getting about gambling.

Lottery tickets. Win or lose.

Wintersday chests: You’re getting a prize every time. This > Gambling Laws. I’m sorry it’s not the best prize, but it is a prize. I’m sorry if people think ugly sweaters aren’t a prize, but they are.

You win every time you open one, and you win everytime you open Giant Wintersday gifts. People are upset because they wanted to win the super-epic-awesome-mega-rare-best-prize, and didn’t.

I spent a lot more than most of the people who make these threads, on these Wintersday gifts. Am I upset I didn’t get the biggest prize? A bit. Am I going to blame everyone else for me consciously spending money on what I knew was a “Gamble?” No, because that’s just stupid. I’ll blame nobody but myself, and my luck. I researched drop rate, read the forums, gathered the money, bought the boxes, opened them all. There’s nobody to blame for it but me.

But hey, I’m kind of bored, so hand me a pitchfork and I’ll go take Anet down for being an evil corporation trying to make money. I’ll blame them for tempting me to buy mystery boxes. EVIL MYSTERY BOXES.

So much kittening bitterness. Anet handed me the fork, I’m not going to blame them because I pricked my thumb with it. However, maybe if I was a little kid who didn’t know any better……..then it might be a viable reason to blame them.

Sokina.8041:

Here’s what people AREN’T getting about gambling.

Lottery tickets. Win or lose.

Wintersday chests: You’re getting a prize every time. This > Gambling Laws. I’m sorry it’s not the best prize, but it is a prize. I’m sorry if people think ugly sweaters aren’t a prize, but they are.

You win every time you open one, and you win everytime you open Giant Wintersday gifts. People are upset because they wanted to win the super-epic-awesome-mega-rare-best-prize, and didn’t.

You make a good point. It’s still a “gamble” in the sense that you’re getting a random item, but you never walk away empty handed.

Perhaps the problem here is the way we view the word “gamble”. If you replace that for with “chance”, it has less of a negative tone to it. So if you’re upset with the RNG of presents and chests, you should just say “I don’t want to take that chance.”

Sokina.8041:

Lottery tickets. Win or lose.

Wintersday chests: You’re getting a prize every time. This > Gambling Laws. I’m sorry it’s not the best prize, but it is a prize. I’m sorry if people think ugly sweaters aren’t a prize, but they are. You win every time

With lottery tickets, your chances are very low but the (potential) reward is millions of times more valuable than the cost of the ticket, which makes it an interesting gamble.

Still, no one buys 20 or 50 lottery tickets every day, each with a separate draw. If there were that many different lotteries every day, they would probably be significantly less profitable (or they would have to have cheaper tickets, and frequent small prizes, to keep people playing). So maybe we should look at forms of gambling designed to entertain gamblers continuously (not just to make 1 bet each month).

In casinos, the chance of winning at roulette is about 47% (assuming you bet on red or black), with a payout of 100%. In other words, if you bet $10 you have a 47% chance of doubling your money. Again, that makes it a very interesting gamble.

In GW2, a giant present costs 10 sweaters and, 90% of the times, it contains 1 (identical) sweater. If you think that trading 10 sweaters for 1 sweater is “winning a prize every time”, you must be the world’s biggest optimist.

Maybe the chance of getting a bell or a pet is like the lottery for some people, but there’s no reason why that chance couldn’t be kept approximately the same while having better odds on the “gambling chips”. To come close to the odds of roulette, each gift (costing 10 sweaters) should give, on average, 9 sweaters or items of equivalent value. Even an average return of 5 ~ 6 sweaters would be fine. A return of 10% (i.e., equivalent to a casino taking a 90% “house cut” on every bet) is just silly.

When a game gives its players worse odds than a casino, you get the feeling they don’t really understand how gambling works.

They’d do well to drop the RNG boxes in the future; they’re burning plenty of cash-paying players, players who may decide not to buy any gems at all because of that one time they were burned.

I was thinking of using gold→gems to buy the 10-stack of boxes, but based on the luck I’ve had elsewhere in the game, I’d get more value out of giving out 1g each to the first 20 strangers I come across in-game.

Yes yes some people cannot control themselves but we still allow gambling, alcohol, driving cars, spray paint, and sharpie markers.

One bad thing is: real life lottery must declare chances (in my country). Arena dont tell us % to get particular things – it is unfair.

ezd.6359:

One bad thing is: real life lottery must declare chances (in my country). Arena dont tell us % to get particular things – it is unfair.

I suspect that by having the RNG items available for money (at the gem store) but also in-game (even if there’s only a shall chance of getting them), that exempts them from gambling laws. IANAL, though.

Ansultares.1567:

They’d do well to drop the RNG boxes in the future; they’re burning plenty of cash-paying players, players who may decide not to buy any gems at all because of that one time they were burned.

You’ll notice that the ones complaining about RNG are the ones who keep doing it over and over and over.

The people complaining about not being able to acquire content are the same ones who would complain about there not being enough content if they could get it straight away.

As for spending on “gambling” items, I see it as a matter of personal choice. As human being we stake claim to a little patch of land for ourselves. When we are on track to acquiring it we have a bit of fun on things like gambling. The problem with that is it is addictive and people can lose money they otherwise would not have done because of their addiction.

What surprises me more about this game though, is how they not only promote drinking alcohol, but binge drinking. I mean there are literally achievements and missions for it.

I think it’s fine that they use gambling to earn some extra money. The people parting with their money for gambling are doing so voluntarily, no one is forcing them. They are deriving pleasure from the act of gambling itself, as they are risk loving.

What I’d like to see is more options for those of us that are more risk adverse and do not participate in gambling (either for moral reasons, or we know too much statistics to ever want to gamble).

The problem is that even the people who spent said money to ‘gamble’ as the OP put it didnt really intend for the sort of conditions anet is providing, some jumped the gun without having any info on the chances, others ‘thought’ anet had learned from halloween and improved the chances and many other reasons.

The gem prices always sky rocket in the first day or so because of the people who act too fast for whatever reason, now they are dropping again when people realize how pointless it is to buy said boxes, this is the whole argument from halloween again – wasting a obscene amount of dollars or thousands of gems without any real chance to get the coveted items is no way at all, and considering this game is all about having things, the ways provided by anet to get said items are pretty bad.

I’ve been a immense quaggan fan since beta, imagine twilight fan but instead of vampires im squeeling for quaggans, its disappointing that even if I was prepared to waste all my gold and gems there is no real way or guarantee to get the minis I want from the winterboxes

It’s like those candy claw machines. You’re guaranteed a prize, but it is most likely not the one you want. The super awesome everlasting gobstopper is there but is mysteriously repelled until you’ve sunk a sufficient amount of tries.

It’s a business strategy, and it is one that works. Sadly I’ve played at least two games that use this method and they do make tons of money despite all the complaints.

I not sure if I should admit it but I am a bad customer and have never bought any gamble boxes and/or keys in any game. They are not my thing. I’m paying only for things I am guaranteed to get.

But as long as the gamble thingies do not have anything game breaking, I’m fine with the companies using them as a money maker. Some people seem to be willing to use lots of money on them voluntarily so at least for now it’s kinda win-win situation. People get to gamble and companies get money and money makes more content.

Jairlyn.1429:

Yes yes some people cannot control themselves but we still allow gambling, alcohol, driving cars, spray paint, and sharpie markers.

In my country 12 year old children are not allowed to gamble, drive cars or drink alcohol.^^ And as it happens this game is for people from 12 years on. I’m not saying this kind of gambling is illegal but parents should actually have look on what this gameshop is about.

Pirlipat.2479:

Jairlyn.1429:

Yes yes some people cannot control themselves but we still allow gambling, alcohol, driving cars, spray paint, and sharpie markers.

In my country 12 year old children are not allowed to gamble, drive cars or drink alcohol.^^ And as it happens this game is for people from 12 years on. I’m not saying this kind of gambling is illegal but parents should actually have look on what this gameshop is about.

It’s not gambling. Players get items every single time they open a box. Just because the items aren’t exactly what they want, too bad. People don’t get exotics every time they defeat a mob either, but they go nuts over this particular RNG.

Baladir.2736:

The mechanic in game would not meet the legal definition of gambling, as defined below, because the items in the gift boxes have no value. They cannot be redemmed for real money. The fact people will spend real money, and alot of it, on the chance they will get something of personal value to themselves only is a matter of personal choice.

“A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome.” Per USLegal.com

Many laugh at the thought that people spend real money for, actually, nothing. The truth is that is exactly what many people do, spend real money, and in large amounts that have a measureable impact on the bottom line of this game. Those purchases make the game possible.

We all know however, the items that “have no value” in a legal sense have very real value in the game. That very real value is a very strong motivation to spend real money, lots, and often too much. The game is very efffective that way in marketing items we have a wish to have. Good job anet. That polish is why we enjoy the game, the quality of the art etc.

Yet, gambling need not be in the mix. To ignore the power of the game over some players is just pretending ignorance. Anet could exercise some social reponsibility here if they chose to.

I got no problem with gambling, but your arguments s weak. Put your pro gambling bias aside and just admit this is gambling. Under the legal definition it is. Saying digital stuff has no value is wrong. It does have value, the fact it is in demand makes it valuable and can and will be exchanged for real money. But the money part isnt even in the definition so it doesnt matter if its sold for cash. Its no different than a diamond. Its useless piece of rock, but its rare therefore valuable in peoples eyes. It looks nice, doesnt do anything, like the skins you can buy here, or the things you can spend money to gambling on here for. Its gambling and it illegal. Spend your energy making gambling legal if thats what you believe instead of insulting my intelligence with your weak arguments.

mojodamm.6854:

It’s not gambling. Players get items every single time they open a box. Just because the items aren’t exactly what they want, too bad. People don’t get exotics every time they defeat a mob either, but they go nuts over this particular RNG.

It still is no matter what rhetoric justification you use and it’s using real money here. And like I said I think this kind is not illegal but it’s not really kid-friendly either. And laws to protect young people are there for a reason. In case of gambling among others because younger people are supposed to have not that much control over their wishes and desires.

Baladir.2736:

Yet, gambling need not be in the mix. To ignore the power of the game over some players is just pretending ignorance. Anet could exercise some social reponsibility here if they chose to.

This summs it up pretty well. It may not be illegal but it is not perfectly ok either, at least not for me.

darkace.8925:

My feelings are simple. It’s disrespectful for ANet to offer desirable and exclusive items through RNG chests. It’s doubly so to introduce monthly events just to promote these RNG chests. There’s no shortage of people who would buy these exclusive items if they were sold in the traditional method (i.e. paying Gems for exactly the item you want) instead of what is essentially gambling with unpublished odds of winning. I’m all for ANet offering items people want and I’m all for them making money, but the way they’re going about it seems too much like Maple Story and too little like Guild Wars.

I completely agree with this. I at least think everything should be available through the store without gambling. Take for instance the Halloween minis. You could buy them without having to go through chests and items that you don’t want if you just want the minipets. However, for the next two events you are required to buy chests even if all you want is the minipets. And buy the chests, and buy the chests…until you somehow get one. I don’t want ANYTHING out of the chests except the minipets…that’s what I collect and that’s what I want. I wasted so much of my money trying to satisfy my OCD need to have the minipets. Yes there is self control and yes I have none, I get that. But I feel like ANET is taking advantage of their loyal customers who WILL SPEND MONEY regardless. If they offered just the minipets in the store I would get them. I would buy 2 sets like I did on Halloween so that I could use the mystic forge. But I feel ripped off for having to spend so much more in hopes I could get the minis for this event. The RNG chests are an obvious ploy to get more money from players and as you said, completely disrespectful.

Pirlipat.2479:

It still is no matter what rhetoric justification you use and it’s using real money here. And like I said I think this kind is not illegal but it’s not really kid-friendly either. And laws to protect young people are there for a reason. In case of gambling among others because younger people are supposed to have not that much control over their wishes and desires.

You can always exchange in-game gold for gems, so the argument that you’re using real money is a smokescreen. The box always returns items, the items have no real-world monetary worth, and the UIGEA and subsequent legislation have specifically failed to make such activities illegal.

Twelve-year-olds are prohibited from receiving credit cards or a Paypal account by contractual law and should not be able to purchase gems online without a parent or guardian’s permission. Twelve-year-olds are not allowed to be employed without a parent or guardian’s permission and therefore don’t have access to the money necessary to purchase a physical ‘gem’ card without third-party (generally parent or guardian) permission.

It sounds like people should be less concerned about what GW2 is doing in the Black Lion Store and more concerned about what the twelve-year-olds are doing there, how they got there, and who’s fault that really is.

bigtime.7410:

But the money part isnt even in the definition so it doesnt matter if its sold for cash…Its gambling and it illegal.

It is not gambling and it’s not illegal, no matter how many times you scream it from the mountaintops. And if you knew anything about the laws behind internet/online gambling, you’d see that the money part is a huge part of the definition.

Is it moral/ethical? That’s for each person to decide. But no matter how vehement you get, no matter how many personal attacks you sling at someone, no matter how badly you want each and every item pulled from the chests and handed out to everyone along with the Devs collective apology, it’s still not going to be gambling, it’s still not going to be illegal, and it’s still going to be a huge source of revenue in the support of a game that we (I assume) love and want success for.

Again read what I said:

I’m not saying this kind of gambling is illegal but parents should actually have look on what this gameshop is about.

Still I think it’s not cool that parents have to worry that a company will take their advantage from the weaknesses of people in that way. Thats all I’m talking about.

Pirlipat.2479:

Again read what I said:

I’m not saying this kind of gambling is illegal but parents should actually have look on what this gameshop is about.

Still I think it’s not cool that parents have to worry that a company will take their advantage from the weaknesses of people in that way. Thats all I’m talking about.

Some parents realize it’s their responsibility to know what their children are doing (especially online!), and don’t try to deflect that responsibility onto others. Other parents prefer to blame a company instead. Of course parents should look into the shop; they should look into all aspects of the game. If that was all you were saying then I would’ve agreed; however, you stated that the boxes were still gambling and equated opening Black Lion Chests with underage driving and drinking alcohol, and that I just can’t agree with

mojodamm.6854:

bigtime.7410:

But the money part isnt even in the definition so it doesnt matter if its sold for cakittens gambling and it illegal.

It is not gambling and it’s not illegal, no matter how many times you scream it from the mountaintops. And if you knew anything about the laws behind internet/online gambling, you’d see that the money part is a huge part of the definition.

Is it moral/ethical? That’s for each person to decide. But no matter how vehement you get, no matter how many personal attacks you sling at someone, no matter how badly you want each and every item pulled from the chests and handed out to everyone along with the Devs collective apology, it’s still not going to be gambling, it’s still not going to be illegal, and it’s still going to be a huge source of revenue in the support of a game that we (I assume) love and want success for.

Its gambling, its illegal, and anets going down!! Bye bye guild wars 2!!

mojodamm.6854:

Pirlipat.2479:

Again read what I said:

I’m not saying this kind of gambling is illegal but parents should actually have look on what this gameshop is about.

Still I think it’s not cool that parents have to worry that a company will take their advantage from the weaknesses of people in that way. Thats all I’m talking about.

Some parents realize it’s their responsibility to know what their children are doing (especially online!), and don’t try to deflect that responsibility onto others. Other parents prefer to blame a company instead. Of course parents should look into the shop; they should look into all aspects of the game. If that was all you were saying then I would’ve agreed; however, you stated that the boxes were still gambling and equated opening Black Lion Chests with underage driving and drinking alcohol, and that I just can’t agree with

In a way you are right. You have always to be aware that companies will sell their customers rubbish they don’t need and take their advantage of their weaknesses. I still make the mistake to think A-Net was somehow different, I should really get over this. They are a money-maschine like any other company.

Edit: I would like to add that I somehow hoped people would not fall for thoses gambling boxes (yeah I use the word again). But as it looks people complain alot but buy nevertheless. So I expect alot more boxes in future. No buying option for me, sry A-Net.

Great post and well written OP. I am disgusted as well. I’m litterally sitting with my wallet , ready to dish up some bucks. But I can only get my minis through RNG. So it stays in my pocket until they remove the RNG. Unfortunately it seems that with a lot of players doing that, and being disappointed, business > players.

Treeline.3865:

…… I’m litterally sitting with my wallet , ready to dish up some bucks. But I can only get my minis through RNG. So it stays in my pocket until they remove the RNG. Unfortunately it seems that with a lot of players doing that, and being disappointed, business > players.

It’s impossible for me to imagine how Anet is making more money now than if they marketed to players like yourself. What I wouldn’t give to know how much money some players are gambling on the boxes to make that mechanic more profitable to Anet than offering the rewards at a fixed price.

I understand the argument that success in the game is not “for sale”. My understanding of the gem store from the beginning was that it would enable players with less time to play the game to catch up, as it were, by spending real money in the gem store. In the same way that one can get competitive gear by crafting , buying gear with Karma etc., there are many avenues and players are not required to do any one thing. Somehow I never saw these boxes coming as a result of that.

I’d bet, lol there’s that word, that Anet feels that giving buyers of the pets the certainty of getting one is an unfair advantage over the player who is spending hours grinding in game, and is uncertain of getting one. How that translated into players spending hundreds of dollars at Christmas and the Holdiay season with nothing to show for it blows my mind.

There have been generations where the thought Caveat emptor, translated as Let the Buyer Beware, was, and still is, an important thing to keep in mind at all times lol. Companies, courts, and politicians over the years have gone to a great deal of trouble to try to settle consumers down because, heh, that attitude was hurting commerce and, not coincidently, upsetting many voters. Concepts such as Corporate Responsibilty were born. Many think that last stated concept is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.

If reason and argument will not persuade a coporate citizen, there is only one avenue left. Do all of you want that pet so badly? Or, would you rather move a mountain?

Treeline.3865:

Great post and well written OP. I am disgusted as well. I’m litterally sitting with my wallet , ready to dish up some bucks. But I can only get my minis through RNG. So it stays in my pocket until they remove the RNG. Unfortunately it seems that with a lot of players doing that, and being disappointed, business > players.

I think the point everyone misses is you don’t have to spend real money to get the boxes. You can flip 10 g in game into gems and use that and play the Christmas Chest Roulette with out every spending a dime of RL money as well. ANet’s build in that option for all of us (though in truth it’s really only viable for those of us who have high enough level characters to farm efficiently or who have the know how to play with the Trading Post).

TabMorte.5297:

Treeline.3865:

Great post and well written OP. I am disgusted as well. I’m litterally sitting with my wallet , ready to dish up some bucks. But I can only get my minis through RNG. So it stays in my pocket until they remove the RNG. Unfortunately it seems that with a lot of players doing that, and being disappointed, business > players.

I think the point everyone misses is you don’t have to spend real money to get the boxes. You can flip 10 g in game into gems and use that and play the Christmas Chest Roulette with out every spending a dime of RL money as well. ANet’s build in that option for all of us (though in truth it’s really only viable for those of us who have high enough level characters to farm efficiently or who have the know how to play with the Trading Post).

You just kind of invalidated your own point there though.

While Gold to Gem transfers sound fine in the beginning, it is rather expensive to buy gems at the moment. So if someone wanted to play the whole RNG Lottery game with Anet without spending any money, they would have to be a hardcore farmer or someone who plays the TP.

With all the tons of nerfs on ways to make gold, Anet basically smashing any clever ways to make gold, and just outright all the tons of gold sinks they have, no normal player is able to make any money. Much less, use that money that they can make, to play the Lottery.

And any time someone does find a way to make money, even a little, Anet stops it.

A lot of you seem to be getting caught up in the semantics of gambling vs not. Whether or not it’s gambling shouldn’t be the question. The question should be: “Is it customer-friendly?”. And before you answer, note that being customer-friendly and being profitable are not mutually exclusive.

A company can be both. ArenaNet has done much to be customer-friendly, but with regards to this one thing they seem to be stubbornly digging in their heels. It’s almost as if they’ve forgotten that selling vanity items “as is” in Guild Wars didn’t make them a lot of money. It’s almost as if someone else is now calling the shots in regards to these sorts of decisions. And it’s almost as if they fail to realize that for every person who buys multiple event-exclusive chests hoping the RNG rolls in their favor, another who would have happily purchased event weapons/armor/mini-pets forgoes the event-exclusive cash shop offerings altogether.

I just refuse to pay for “unknown”.

If special items were easy to get, everyone would have a baby quaggan and it would not be special.
If all drops were skill-based (e.g. at end of JP / PvP / group event) someone would complain he didn’t have a fair chance because he sucks at [JP / PvP / group events].
If it’s rare and random, people complain it’s depressing to be at the mercy of an uncaring RNG.
If Anet release only a fixed low number of rare pets (etc) and make them more easily obtainable, they’d be gone in 5 mins, and again, other players never even had a chance.

What other, better options are there? (Honest question) The constraints are: Exotic and unique prizes must remain exotic and unique; players want to feel they are in control over their fate; and Anet wants “gems” (cash).

It’s a matter of making different personally types happy. Anet put itself in a weird position by making a game that targets several target groups: People who prefer relying on hand-eye coordination (JPs) versus measurable RPG skills + own strategy skills (PvPs)…… hunting versus gathering…. friendly cooperation (group events) versus tough high-risk gambling…… Almost mututally exclusive and hard to satisfy.

PS:

Voluntarily giving a self-defined amount of money, for nothing in return but something pretty to look at, is defined as DONATION, not gambling, isn’t it?

if they offer to sell the items direct, then you only pay once to get the item you want. if they charge too much for it, people will complain again (see EVE monocle controversy). So how can they get people to constantly pay gems?

one way is to make direct purchase items expire after a certain period of time. You play the gambling game to get a permanent version.

that’s probably the only alternative that still encourages people to constantly pay.

oh, this also reminds me of the furor in diablo 3. blizzard nerfed increased attack speed, and all the people who paid real money to get their IAS gear were all like, “I’m going to complain to consumer protection about bait and switch!!”

if you are paying real money for some pixels, don’t be surprised if your purchase does not confirm to real world expectations.