Guild Wars 2

I really enjoy this patch, since I didn’t play it last year.
I was however kind of let down by the bell mini game.
I play a lot of music in real life, and I’ve spent countless hours just playing flute in LA.
My problem with this mini game is that it have nothing to with being musically talented.
It could be with some changes.
First of all. The metronome/beat only runs before the song starts. This should be changed to allow us to hear the beat while you try to play the song. Like in Guitar hero etc. you have the track playing in the background, in this game you have silence, except for other players spamming the bell. Right now I actually found it easier to play the notes right when I turned the volume off. It is more about hitting the button when you see it hits the right spot on the screen, than actually using your ears as the most important tool. To make it even worse we are able to hear what other people around us is playing, to distract us even further. You should just disable sound from players around you.
Another change that could save some frustration is that if you changed the view automatically when you enter the “bell circle”. Right now you have to adjust the view with your mouse if you want to see it from a top down perspective.
Another thing I found rather pointless was the “Free play” .. “Play your masterpiece” .. While being able to hear what other plays .. It serves no purpose, and is just annoying .. You should just skip that part. Or is there actually some meaning behind it that I missed? Do we score any points for it somehow?

Another thing I noticed is that the tones for the bell is the tones we miss on the flute/horn ^^ (Either that or you just start on a different key for “1” than you do on flute/horn)
I hope you someday implement some kind of layout to be able to play all the tones. Like having f1,f2 and so on be the minor notes. I know this is a lot of work, so a easy solution until this is maybe someday made possible would be to let us choose between minor and major layout for the flute. To open up more choices of songs to play on the flute.

Thanks for reading!

If I wanted to play guitar hero, I’d buy an X-box.

Medieval.1679:

If I wanted to play guitar hero, I’d buy an X-box.

The game is clearly promoted as a game where you use your musical skills to win.
The npc even says something like “Musical individuals, now is your time to shine”.
Sadly that is not the case.
And the game is clearly inspired by Guitar Hero.
I’m not saying it have to be like guitar hero. My point in comparing it to Guitar Hero was that you can hear the track in the background. For the same exact reason that you have a drummer in a band, so you can play to the beat of the music.

The point of the mini-game, other than winning and getting the achievements, is to hear the complete song with the other players. So your idea, while it has merit, is counterproductive to this ideal.

Also, when you get to play your own songs, it allows players to attempt their own songs or a holiday favorite. For example, I can now play Jingle Bells. Without that ‘masterpiece’ time, I don’t get to play what I want … given that I’ll never find a bell outside the mini-game.

Long story short, you’re thinking about how YOU benefit … not the overall community nor the mini-game’s actual intent.

Forgive me, but I did play it last year and now this year. It’s still, hands down, my favorite part of Winter’s Day. Given that it’s such a minor, and entertaining event, an overhaul isn’t required much less a drummer. It’s called a bell choir for a reason.

Afraid you’ll have to play Guitar Hero instead if you want Rock N’ Roll.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

is to hear the complete song with the other players. So your idea, while it has merit, is counterproductive to this ideal.

Interesting, didn’t think about that. Only tried it a few times. While I like the idea, it just doesn’t work to well when executed. It will 90% of the times sound like a 1st grade school band, than the actual song, when you are playing with random people.
It only serves as a distraction from my pov. Now, if you were able to join with friends, that would be a different story.
But can see why they chose to let us hear what other people plays then, but think we should be given the option to disable it.
If the idea is that we are suppose to play the songs together, it is a interesting yet bad idea. This is a way to optimistic to design a game like this in a mmo, and think that it will actually sound good with the majority of the player base.
I’m glad that you enjoy the game, I most admit that I am not able of this.
Mostly because it is promoted to the musical individuals, even though it doesn’t require any musical skills to succeed as it is right now.
Sure, a lot of the changes might just be me and other musicians that would benefit from it. But think they should promote the game differently towards the majority of the playerbase insted of “musical individuals”
And no thanks. I only tried it once a couple of years ago, just used it to compare. I’ll stick to my Guitar

“much less a drummer. It’s called a bell choir for a reason”

A bell choir have their songs practiced and have a lead bell player that everyone follows.
Every orchestra/band have a lead, it doesn’t have to be a drummer, just a person who keeps the rhytm going.

You have this curious hangup about ‘musically inclined individuals’ or words to that effect. But, I believe you misunderstand the intent. Musically inclined doesn’t mean musically gifted as well. In this case, it means you like music more or less.

Also, yes, some people suck at the mini-game. But, if they suck too badly, the game punishes them by removing their ability to continue the song. While I do agree the songs can sound amateurish because of player input, I’m also not expecting Air Force Band-level expertise either. Nor should you given the effort some of our peers show in their attempts at pretty much anything.

Again, I think your idea has merit, but not for this event. Remember, it’s a bell choir with holiday elements and attempt to stay true to that goal.

I support Jokke about music skills for a game who tells you to rely on them…

Actually I’m really frustrated by this game… I’m a pianist, music teacher and by all means, the best score I can achieve is when I cut the sound down, just focusing on the “right spot”… and, when it works ! because most of times, I feel the game is lagging much more than elsewhere !

When I try to use my ear, I feel the beat (even without metronome), I judge the “right time” and the note is always too late or too soon… I put the graphics at minimal effects, my PC is a good one, but even this, with ear (which works well, by the way), I miss almost 50% of notes…

jokke.6239:

“much less a drummer. It’s called a bell choir for a reason”

A bell choir have their songs practiced and have a lead bell player that everyone follows.
Every orchestra/band have a lead, it doesn’t have to be a drummer, just a person who keeps the rhytm going.

Sigh. And that is also in the mini-game if you’ve paid attention. Unfortunately, like your example, it requires someone who understands that and knows how to do it. Usually with a lot of practice, as you’ve also hinted.

You do realize you’re making a lot of noise about something basic, that can be farmed endlessly for gift boxes, and requires the hand/eye coordination of a child to complete? Yet you, the ‘musically inclined’, want more cues to help you achieve better results.

You’re still not seeing the irony in your request?

Ardenwolfe.8590:

You have this curious hangup about ‘musically inclined individuals’ or words to that effect. But, I believe you misunderstand the intent. Musically inclined doesn’t mean musically gifted as well. In this case, it means you like music more or less.

Also, yes, some people suck at the mini-game. But, if they suck too badly, the game punishes them by removing their ability to continue the song. While I do agree the songs can sound amateurish because of player input, I’m also not expecting Air Force Band-level expertise either. Nor should you given the effort some of our peers show in their attempts at pretty much anything.

Again, I think your idea has merit, but not for this event. Remember, it’s a bell choir with holiday elements and attempt to stay true to that goal.

I stand by most of my points. I only tried it out a few times before I made this post, so didn’t notice the “play the song together” vision they had with this mini game, but I also stand by that this is a to optimistic idea for a mini game in a mmo.
There is still not a reason for not having the metronome to keep on going through the song, but just at the beginning.
Right now it doesn’t just punish the player who plays out of beat, but also the other players who gets distracted by his playing. An error that could be fixed by letting the metronome continue through the track.

“Remember, it’s a bell choir with holiday elements.”

I don’t get your point? A bell choir requires you to stay on beat as much as other types of orchestras.

wulfgainer.9346:

I support Jokke about music skills for a game who tells you to rely on them…

Actually I’m really frustrated by this game… I’m a pianist, music teacher and by all means, the best score I can achieve is when I cut the sound down, just focusing on the “right spot”… and, when it works ! because most of times, I feel the game is lagging much more than elsewhere !

When I try to use my ear, I feel the beat (even without metronome), I judge the “right time” and the note is always too late or too soon… I put the graphics at minimal effects, my PC is a good one, but even this, with ear (which works well, by the way), I miss almost 50% of notes…

Well, if we’re going there, I’m also a pianist with a lot of experience in music as well. I get perfect or near-perfect scores each time with no problems. I have the sound up loud, the graphics high, and play with the visual cues as well as the audio ones.

I don’t need the metronome nor do I feel ‘punished’ because others play their parts badly.

So . . . draw your own conclusions.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

jokke.6239:

“much less a drummer. It’s called a bell choir for a reason”

A bell choir have their songs practiced and have a lead bell player that everyone follows.
Every orchestra/band have a lead, it doesn’t have to be a drummer, just a person who keeps the rhytm going.

Sigh. And that is also in the mini-game if you’ve paid attention. Unfortunately, like your example, it requires someone who understands that and knows how to do it. Usually with a lot of practice, as you’ve also hinted.

You do realize you’re making a lot of noise about something basic, that can be farmed endlessly for gift boxes, and requires the hand/eye coordination of a child to complete? Yet you, the ‘musically inclined’, want more cues to help you achieve better results.

You’re still not seeing the irony in your request?

I’m making a lot of noise?
What’s with all the negativity?
I’m letting A net know how I feel about the minigame, and how I think it can be improved.

“hand/eye cordination”

Exactly, glad you can confirm that this is what it takes.

“You’re still not seeing the irony in your request?”

Please do point out the irony.

I already did. Please quit cherry-picking and realize why your request is ironic on your own. Either way, it’s late and I’ve indulged you and this thread long enough.

Good luck with your suggestion.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I already did. Please quit cherry-picking and realize why your request is ironic on your own. Either way, it’s late and I’ve indulged you and this thread long enough.

Good luck with your suggestion.

I’m not going to bother, that’s why I asked you. But you probably even don’t have a clue ..
Thanks for your valuable feedback, and have a nice day!

I really do love that you’re proving my point without even knowing it. Happy Wintersday to you too.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I really do love that you’re proving my point without even knowing it. Happy Winter’s Day to you too.

I really love your inability to explain yourself .. Or maybe you are just afraid that your reason can be discredited.
u 2 <3

(chuckle) Let me get this right. You want me to explain to you, because you can’t be bothered to reread why I’ve already stated why your reasoning is ironic, why it’s ironic because I have the inability to do so, even though I already did, and I’m now afraid to do so . . . even though, again, I already did.

All because you ’can’t be bothered’ to figure it out on your own.

…

Merry Wintersday.

Holy crap this game sucks! I couldn’t even get one lousy point for the Daily Achievement. The instructions are horrible. It took me forever to figure out that I had to talk to the Snowman, while the event is going on, in order to get to the center. Then after all of that frustration, I die in 2 seconds & have to do it all over again.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

(chuckle) Let me get this right. You want me to explain to you, because you can’t be bothered to reread why I’ve already stated why your reasoning is ironic, why it’s ironic because I have the inability to do so, even though I already did, and I’m now afraid to do so . . . even though, again, I already did.

All because you ’can’t be bothered’ to figure it out on your own.

…

Merry Wintersday.

“kitten , I have no idea what to say .. Let me just repeat myself and hope that he stops asking about what the irony was .. "

May I ask what part of ‘I already did, please reread it’ are you not understanding? Honestly, this is like watching you stick your fingers in your ears and saying, “La, la, la,” at this point.

But, hey, your call.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

May I ask what part of ‘I already did, please reread it’ are you not understanding? Honestly, this is like watching you stick your fingers in your ears and saying, “La, la, la,” at this point.

But, hey, your call.

Now that’s irony!

The NPCs ingame obviously are talking to your char. If they say something about music skills they mean your char has music skills. You can do it without music skills of course by just playing the game and being good at the gameplay.

Any changes they should make: They need to make it so even people not interested in musical stuff can play it and get good scores(with a bit training but not tons of training or musical eductation, this should not be required).

Remember: It is a game. They want players to play(and maybe pay). Making it too hard will drive away players(= less customers and less people that might pay). Especially if it is christmas soon and this Wintersday is like christmas event and they want easy stuff where people can have fun instead of getting frustrated. Hard stuff they can make at Halloween to scare people away lol.

Luthan.5236:

The NPCs ingame obviously are talking to your char. If they say something about music skills they mean your char has music skills. You can do it without music skills of course by just playing the game and being good at the gameplay.

Any changes they should make: They need to make it so even people not interested in musical stuff can play it and get good scores(with a bit training but not tons of training or musical eductation, this should not be required).

Remember: It is a game. They want players to play(and maybe pay). Making it too hard will drive away players(= less customers and less people that might pay). Especially if it is christmas soon and this Wintersday is like christmas event and they want easy stuff where people can have fun instead of getting frustrated. Hard stuff they can make at Halloween to scare people away lol.

Well, it’s not unheard of to be immersed in to your character in an RPG ^^And they have a big focus on music instruments in the game, so i’m pretty sure they were also refering to us. And also, our chars won’t have any musical skills without us, they are merely just puppets to our commands ^^
That is how it is right now .. Hand/eye cordination is all that matters.
And I agree that they should make the content to fit the majority of the playerbase interest. They just didn’t do that with this mini game ..
In my opinion this was just a bad idea for a minigame in the state it is now, as I stated the reasons to above.
They could improve it by adding a metronome through the song, so both people with eye/hand cordination AND musicians would enjoy the game more. And let us being able to disable other players bell sounds, even though it would break the “play the song together” vision they had .. But it would still be our choice if we wanted it or not .. And I know I would enjoy it a lot more that way ..

They give you the tempo before the piece begins. That’s more than lots of musicians post-high school get. We don’t need a metronome to keep the beat for us. If it was implemented to help those without any musical training or background, sure, I could see that, but those are the players who will likely switch the sounds off and rely primarily on hand-eye coordination to finish the game.

Also, I play by ear mostly. You need to have a bit of coordination to play the correct notes, but not much. All it takes is getting accustomed to the input delay of your key presses to what you hear, much like when conducting (or, to reference a different game, like playing Parappa the Rappa :P). You make your cues on time and trust that the sound will come, and use this as a basis for future key presses and keeping a firmly established tempo.

Manijin.3428:

They give you the tempo before the piece begins. That’s more than lots of musicians post-high school get. We don’t need a metronome to keep the beat for us. If it was implemented to help those without any musical training or background, sure, I could see that, but those are the players who will likely switch the sounds off and rely primarily on hand-eye coordination to finish the game.

Also, I play by ear mostly. You need to have a bit of coordination to play the correct notes, but not much. All it takes is getting accustomed to the input delay of your key presses to what you hear, much like when conducting (or, to reference a different game, like playing Parappa the Rappa :P). You make your cues on time and trust that the sound will come, and use this as a basis for future key presses and keeping a firmly established tempo.

Give me an example of where you don’t have a lead to follow, except if your playing solo, but then you are following your own tempo pretty much. All people with musical experience DOES have a lead, most frequently a drummer who holds it all together. Hence why drummers always slap their sticks before they start playing. A game with a bunch of randoms where you have to play the song together, it is pretty crucial to have a tempo to follow, even more so when you are distracted by all the players who play out of beat. And even more so when you have no idea what song you are playing.
It’s great that you can do it without, hats of to you. But I stand by that it would be a very good improvement to add.

Manijin.3428:

They give you the tempo before the piece begins. That’s more than lots of musicians post-high school get. We don’t need a metronome to keep the beat for us. If it was implemented to help those without any musical training or background, sure, I could see that, but those are the players who will likely switch the sounds off and rely primarily on hand-eye coordination to finish the game.

Can I ask what you’re doing that you don’t even get counted in by a conductor? I mean I’m a professional musician myself and I’ve never once had the scenario you’re saying happens.

And just so we’re clear, I consider professional to mean I’m able to live off the funds from music alone. Being good at an instrument in your room, you could be the best in the world and make nothing from it. You’re still lacking real world experience when it comes to a professional setting, organising salaries, protecting your legal rights.

I would like camera to give you a better overview, right now I either can’t see the full top of the circle when I look at it from above, or I have troubles seeing the most left and right note because the ridge is obstructing it a bit.

It’s a minor inconvenience but I think the game could be improved if you coulde easily see all colors/paths at one glance! Other than that, I like this game!

It can be rough when you are with people who need more practice, but when you end up with a group of people who know what they’re doing, it can really sound awesome! You get the teamwork feel that you would never get doing it alone.

I’m not a musical person, but I don’t need a beat. I have a light hitting the blue area to know when to ring the bells. I’m not smooth enough at it to notice the other people on the stage with me. I’m too busy working out which fingers to twitch next.

YaY! More presents to open.

ElenaDragon.8401:

It can be rough when you are with people who need more practice, but when you end up with a group of people who know what they’re doing, it can really sound awesome! You get the teamwork feel that you would never get doing it alone.

That’s awesome!
But think it needs many improvements ..

Not that it couldn’t be improved, but how about just seeing it as a stand-alone mini-game with pretty lights and sounds. It is what it is when you don’t try to relate it to real world experiences.

Guitar Hero was not the first game to do something like this. There actually is a melody in the notes you play and it does help a lot with the timing.

WyldKat.4712:

Not that it couldn’t be improved, but how about just seeing it as a stand-alone mini-game with pretty lights and sounds. It is what it is when you don’t try to relate it to real world experiences.

Well some of the suggestions would not be hard to add.
It would make a lot of people have a lot more fun.
I know nothing will happen this year.
But since it’s a returning holiday event, I’m sure Arena Net is happy to hear peoples suggestions.
They have made a lot of changes in a lot of holiday events already from last year, at least I hear that. Didn’t play Guild Wars 2 last Wintersday.

Darkobra.6439:

Manijin.3428:

They give you the tempo before the piece begins. That’s more than lots of musicians post-high school get. We don’t need a metronome to keep the beat for us. If it was implemented to help those without any musical training or background, sure, I could see that, but those are the players who will likely switch the sounds off and rely primarily on hand-eye coordination to finish the game.

Can I ask what you’re doing that you don’t even get counted in by a conductor? I mean I’m a professional musician myself and I’ve never once had the scenario you’re saying happens.

And just so we’re clear, I consider professional to mean I’m able to live off the funds from music alone. Being good at an instrument in your room, you could be the best in the world and make nothing from it. You’re still lacking real world experience when it comes to a professional setting, organising salaries, protecting your legal rights.

Actually, I’m a professional musician as well :P It’s cool to meet others. It probably has a lot to do with conducting style, then. I’ve worked with a lot of conductors who expect your knowledge of the piece to be such that you don’t need a count in, except for maybe during the first few rehearsals to get a feel for it. However, YMMV, and I don’t mean that in a bad way. Different conductors do it different ways, as I’m sure you’re aware of :P.

@jokke: Have you ever played or been a part of a small ensemble without percussion? String Quartets and Piano Trio’s come to mind (yes, the piano is a percussion instrument, but he doesn’t exist to keep the beat for the ensemble :P), but I’ve also had instances where choral directors, for whatever reason, have decided to allow the chorus to dictate their own tempo as a group for stylistic reasons. In such instances, occasionally a single person will be decided as the “leader”, but typically (in my own experience, at least) the ensemble is expected to perform as a single unit, using their knowledge of period style, tempi, and various musical markings to dictate when the music should be played, and how quickly. Should certain parts fall to artistic license in regards to the tempo (as can be the case, more often than not in music from the 1800’s through the modern day in small ensembles), then it is usually only given to one part, which would be the part to follow.

However, in a video game without the ability to give artistic license due to a scoring system, this seems largely irrelevant.

I just wanted to “chime” in and say;
I LOVE this mini game!
I love when I get a group of people on stage with me who are also good and our song sounds like it should.
I equally love it when I’m with a group that hasn’t a clue and it sounds like a “1st grade bell choir”
Extra challenge to keep your tempo.

AND, the play your own masterpiece is fun, because if I hear someone playing something I know, I’ll add in if I can.
It’s a ton of fun to harmonize with someone else.
Or just jam out.
This game is perfect the way it is

I decided to try it last night and it was great ! I was pretty awful the first few times, but really got a hang of it in the time I played.

I like that you have to play to hear the song – they’re all songs we’ve all heard many times so it’s cool to start to recognise them when you’re actually hitting the right notes. I had a really great group for a while and we made much music.

It helped for me to just put my fingers on the 1-9 keys – with nothing on five. That way to play the notes I didn’t have to think of which key to press, really, just where it was in relation to my fingers. Like, farthest away on either side means press pinky finger – middle notes on the boards are index finger and you can get the ones in-between by relating them to where they are in relation to those.

I think just like Guitar Hero it’s not about actual ability to play real musical instruments – haven’t you seen how real guitar players can suck horribly at that game, yet people who can’t play for real can be great at it ? It’s just not the same thing.

If I wanted to play Guitar Hero, why would I bother with Guild Wars 2?

I’m terribly bad at playing notes. They should add a special song just for me that requires me to only press the first note repeatedly. 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1…

(It would be just like playing through a dungeon)

My only issue is that it seems to lag randomly. Otherwise, I can get a perfect score playing the upper scale without much effort. What confounds me are the people that take the “smash head on keyboard” approach to the song, and keep coming back every time they fail.

I go with the Middle Scale. I find it the easiest of the 3. However, The Great Toymaker and Fear Not This Night have some pretty tricky sections. I usually mess up a perfect score around those.

It is not a mini-game for the musically gifted, but rather those that can whack-a-mole.

i didnt pay $60 to buy an xbox

I won’t ask much for this mini game.
I’ve been enjoying it since last year.

It’s the only mini game I enjoy so much. I spend so much time in it lol
Too bad, it only exists during Wintersday. >__<;;;

Anyways, I have one complaint and two suggestions:

- My only complaint is the server lag that prevents people from getting 600. Please minimize it if possible.

- There should be a join party or friend invitation to bring friends into the same room.
Just like in PvP room where people can join the room where their friend is in.
- More songs for next year Wintersday, perhaps.
Feel free to keep “Fear Not This Night” because the original “Fear Not This Night” is my fave song from GW2 xD

I am not a professional musician, but this game only requires pressing buttons. YAY.

Memo to myself: Tune guitar and play something else than chimes.

Bell Choir is fun. Period.

You don’t really have to be an actual master in tossing kegs to get good at keg brawling. Or at survival games tobe good at Southsun survival.

Why should be the case for the bell choir?

TRY playing on split keyboard. I dare you to try and reach 6.

^ how do you even play the game normally, then of your keyboard is such a problem ?

If you’d splits between 6 and 7 you just have to hop one finger over two keys every once in a while – and even if you always missed that note you would likely still make it through the song.

I press keys with a larger gap between them during normal play on a normal keyboard. You could also use a number pad.

you’d probably be real upset with me on your team then. you know the guy that gets 1 note right out of 100? warrior faceroll tactics ftw.

I could definitely do without the “play whatever you like” part. Between having to wait for additional players and the time allotted to play it’s almost better to just zone out and back in again even with my horrific loading times into LA.

I play the bells fairly frequently (love this minigame) and I’ve never seen anyone play anything during that part. They either stand around and wait for the next match or mash keys as fast as possible.

KyreneZA.8617:

It is not a mini-game for the musically gifted, but rather those that can whack-a-mole.

You basically play the piano the same way though. After a while you can memorize the song and notes and do it without even following the dots as closely.