Guild Wars 2

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

This is suppose to be a game that is fun and you doing all the above is not making it fun. Why are you guys constantly looking for ways to take the money we spend hours trying to get? Where does the money really go? into thin air as the NPC’s are not real people, WP, TP and Winterdays Donation do nothing but STEAL FROM US.
We spend grinding hours of trying make money or get items which is getting to the point of NOT FUN. NOT FUN GET IT????

1. Travelling in the real world is not free
2. To list anything on a real world auction you have to pay a listing fee
3. Usually the ways people are making money is by exploiting systems. Exploiting systems is not playing the game…
4. I agree wholeheartedly with this one…

Economy healthy? When everyone and anyone under cuts the lowest price on TP until all the items are not worth much, except the ones you spend hours trying to get? This is not a healthy economy. And so what if the Real World lists these charges, it does not mean they have to make this game like that SINCE IT IS GAME and not RL those charges should not be in game.

Regarding the donation part: you don’t necessarily have to do that achievement to complete the meta achievement. You can do dailies instead.

If you’re an achievement hunter or competitionist, 3 gold should be nothing to you.

I swear, people here complain about the most trivial of things. Too much entitlement going on.

BriarRose.5639:

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

This is suppose to be a game that is fun and you doing all the above is not making it fun. Why are you guys constantly looking for ways to take the money we spend hours trying to get? Where does the money really go? into thin air as the NPC’s are not real people, WP, TP and Winterdays Donation do nothing but STEAL FROM US.
We spend grinding hours of trying make money or get items which is getting to the point of NOT FUN. NOT FUN GET IT????

It’s a gold sink. If gold isn’t removed from the economy, the result is inflation, where currency rapidly becomes worth less over time. Implementing trivial gold sinks in unobtrusive places is fairly standard practice for most healthy online fake currency economies. You’d have a lot more to complain about if inflation became a significant problem.

As for the Wintersday achievement, just do a couple of extra dailies instead if you don’t want to drop the silver/gold. No biggie.

well if we are talking about game design, then why is it in the TP you can not list an item any lower than what you could sell it to a mechant but people are able to offer a lower price than the merchant to purchase it which should not be in the game design. The lowest price that we should list in the TP should be a mandated to be higher than what a merchant would offer you and thus would stablize part of the economy or make what the merchants offer higher to help.

But the main thrust of this post was to bring to light the donations of Wintersday for an achievement which i think is wrong instead i think they should have given us 1 gold and 3 silver in the spirit of giving since we all bought the game and gems and play to keep this probably the number one game MMO out there. This will be my last post on this thread. gotta go try to make more money

OP, if you don’t like the game’s mechanics, why not leave the game?

"
1. Travelling in the real world is not free
2. To list anything on a real world auction you have to pay a listing fee
3. Usually the ways people are making money is by exploiting systems. Exploiting systems is not playing the game…
4. I agree wholeheartedly with this one…
"

This isn’t the real world.

Also you elect to do all those things, so it’s not stealing. Simply gold sinks.

If they will not do it total money in economy will increase faster. All prices will rise, all events and other fixed rewards will become too small (you will not do it). They will increase rewards, prices will rise again etc etc. All your work or any afforts will depreciate faster. You will need to work faster and more.

Money sink is mandatory for economy health.

If there weren’t gold sinks, people would accumulate more and more gold devaluing the currency. Eventually you would be paying gold just for copper ore to start off. If the gold wasn’t removed from the economy, then inflation would be through the roof, which is very unhealthy.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

1. Travelling in the real world is not free
2. To list anything on a real world auction you have to pay a listing fee
3. Usually the ways people are making money is by exploiting systems. Exploiting systems is not playing the game…
4. I agree wholeheartedly with this one…

1. And this is not a real world
2. look up ^
however those 2 are gold sinks
3. Doing whatever you want within a game, is by definition playing a game. Everyone can play how they want.

KOPPER.1458:

"
1. Travelling in the real world is not free
2. To list anything on a real world auction you have to pay a listing fee
3. Usually the ways people are making money is by exploiting systems. Exploiting systems is not playing the game…
4. I agree wholeheartedly with this one…
"

This isn’t the real world.

Also you elect to do all those things, so it’s not stealing. Simply gold sinks.

Just as you elect to do them in game. If you want to use Asura Gates and walk everywhere for free that’s fine. The game allows you to do that. WP’s are a convenience system that most MMO’s don’t have. Just as with the trading post, you absolutely can play without ever touching it.
These things exist in the real world because they tend to make sense, so for the in game economy to function in any workable manner it also needs these sorts of things. Fantasy always has it’s groundings in reality…

well…all 4 can be answered in one line..

PEOPLE HAVE GOLD…
during previous events, there was a good overflow of gold.. they need to clean the system so prices don’t raise.. Inflation is a bad thing..

there are more than enough ways to get gold & with steady income, economy needs steady expense to balance the flow.. Unless you are new, 3g is nothing.

Its all good the way it is set up… More gold you have in system, less the value they hold which in turn, will make everything more expensive.

The gold sinks are needed to fight inflation. Without them, we’d eventually be paying 2G for an 8 Slot Bag.

Gulesave.5073:

The gold sinks are needed to fight inflation. Without them, we’d eventually be paying 2G for an 8 Slot Bag.

I can get 8 slot bags for free. No gold needed.

A pointless rage post from an ill informed user. No effort to learn about why those mechanics exist in game economy. No effort to create resonable discourse, instead relying on insults. Bails at first sign that all their rage is misplaced when more knowledgeable users give them the facts.

Donating is completely optional. You do not have to do it.

BriarRose.5639:

well if we are talking about game design, then why is it in the TP you can not list an item any lower than what you could sell it to a mechant but people are able to offer a lower price than the merchant to purchase it which should not be in the game design. The lowest price that we should list in the TP should be a mandated to be higher than what a merchant would offer you and thus would stablize part of the economy or make what the merchants offer higher to help.

This is just a problem (not a bug or exploit) that Anet has not fixed since the TP was originally made. I played back in mid-September right after GW2 released and the TP used to allow players to make a “Buy Offer” that was lower than vendor price. Some months afterwards, however, they made it so a player could not list an item at or below vendor value.

However, because a lot of players do not know how to remove their offers, are too lazy to do so, or simply no longer play the game anymore, these “Buy Offers” are still present on the TP.

I don’t think Anet is willing to try to remove them from the game, because doing so would likely require the entire trade post to be reset. Trying to do so without resetting the whole system (which would be devastating to the economy) probably requires more manpower and man-hours than they can currently put into it. Doing so would also cut into time and resources that could be put into making future content.

Cleary the OP didn’t play other mmo with same wp mechanics except others cost so much and other mmos need even a scroll to wp somewhere that you need to buy…

BriarRose.5639:

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

How is 1,2 and 3 different then any other MMO? WP are basically just like instant FPs from most MMOs, and they both cost a small fee. All AHs and the like always take a small cut from any sells, and when you say “ways to make money”; those are usually exploits or unintended mistakes the developers made. Those get fixed so they don’t accidently break a market or the whole economy.

For number 4, that can easily be done in a day or so. If you really wanted to do it, you could simply farm for the money. With the arrival of the ascendant gear, the marketplace on lower tier mats increased, along with their prices. Or, you could simply skip over them, and you could just do the dailies for the event.

In Anet’s defense, this is the first MMO in a while where money was actually worth something.

Two words: Gold sinks.

That’s all that should need to be said. >.>;

BriarRose.5639:

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

This is suppose to be a game that is fun and you doing all the above is not making it fun. Why are you guys constantly looking for ways to take the money we spend hours trying to get? Where does the money really go? into thin air as the NPC’s are not real people, WP, TP and Winterdays Donation do nothing but STEAL FROM US.
We spend grinding hours of trying make money or get items which is getting to the point of NOT FUN. NOT FUN GET IT????

1. Using quick travel from one point to another in other MMO’s costs, why shouln’t it in GW2? +It’s a gold sink.
2. It has always been there in all MMO’s I have played and even in RL so why not? +It’s a gold sink.
3. Becouse you are not supposed to be farming or grinding for gold, you are supposed to be enjoying playing the game. If you enjoy farming and grinding, then by making it harder would mean it’s more fun right? XD
4. You don’t have to do it, each day there is a new wintersday daily that you can compleate to succesfully earn the Tixx toybox. If you are after 100% succses rate I can inform you that when that LS is over, the uncompleated achievement’s won’t show.
3 gold is not that hard to get your hands on iether by the way.

Arvizal.8436:

OP, if you don’t lie the game’s mechanics, why not leave the game?

/sarcasticclapwhilerollingeyes

It’s funny that people are automatically assuming that OP’s 3 is exploit abuse. Anet really does have you over a barrel.

“Play your way!” remember that?

The OP is correct that money spent on gold sinks disappears into thin air (or rather is deleted from the game). But what you have to remember is that money appeared out of thin air too.

MMO’s don’t have a complete economy. When you kill an ogre and loot some money from the corpse that money didn’t come from anywhere, it didn’t exist before that enemy died and the loot table program ‘decided’ to put it there.

Without an equal and opposite system to remove some of that money from the game you’d just have a system where more and more money was coming into the economy and not going anywhere, which leads to massive inflation.

That’s what happened in the early days of Ultima Online when MMOs were a new concept and the developers didn’t appreciate the need for things like gold sinks. Even basic items cost a small fortune and things that were actually valuable, like a placed house, could run into millions of gold. You had to spend hours farming to buy anything and new players basically had no chance to get off the ground because they were so far behind.

We’re already seeing some issues with inflation (like the rising cost of popular pre-cursors), I would absolutely not want to see this game with no gold sinks to counteract that.

What Danikat said is entirely correct. Everyone who wants to understand, should read it. It’s funny, how people with zero knowledge complain about a mechanism that is, in fact, very, very beneficial for them.

But yes, the achievement is stupid, but on the other hand, everyone can make 3 gold now, and if you don’t want, don’t spend it on it.

Paul.4081:

Arvizal.8436:

OP, if you don’t lie the game’s mechanics, why not leave the game?

/sarcasticclapwhilerollingeyes

It’s funny that people are automatically assuming that OP’s 3 is exploit abuse. Anet really does have you over a barrel.

“Play your way!” remember that?

Yes, and I also remember that they only used that phrase in 2 very specific contexts.

Firstly when talking about the fact that you are automatically level 80 for PvP with full exotics and can level up and get new gear in WvW, meaning that unlike a lot of games people who aren’t interested in PvE don’t have to spend hours playing it to get ready for the stuff they do want to do.

And secondly when talking about the fact that the game doesn’t have a fixed trinity so you’re not tied down to a specific role based on the profession you pick. In a lot of games a profession like the guardian would be a tank and if you chose to play one you would also have to play the tank in every encounter throughout the entire game. Whereas in GW2 you can make a DPS guardian, or a support guardian, or a hybrid build that does multiple things.

They never used “play the way you want” to mean you could sit and farm the same champion or event over and over again and never need to do anything else, or never do anything but craft or whatever other ridiculously extremes people have tried to apply it to.

But like “We don’t make grindy games” (where in the same sentence they went on to say grind should be for cosmetics, not required to progress through the game) it got taken completely out of context and re-posted without the full quote so often that people forgot what it actually meant and started trying to apply it to absolutely everything in the game.

I’m guessing most replys on this thread are for people who play a lot. I’m lucky if I have enough time to do my dailies. I get time to play normally three times a week for 2 hours at most. So at most 6 hours a week dew to work and real life. The gold sinks are a pain for me. I find it hard to gather the gold needed to buy the extra mats I need ect for crafting buying items that I need. I know how important they are but some are silly. Like the cost for using one to Rez. It would work like it did in guild wars. You Rez at the closest one to you/found. The damage to your armour can also be costly during world bosses with out the way point Rez costs. But that’s just me.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’m guessing most replys on this thread are for people who play a lot. I’m lucky if I have enough time to do my dailies. I get time to play normally three times a week for 2 hours at most. So at most 6 hours a week dew to work and real life. The gold sinks are a pain for me. I find it hard to gather the gold needed to buy the extra mats I need ect for crafting buying items that I need. I know how important they are but some are silly. Like the cost for using one to Rez. It would work like it did in guild wars. You Rez at the closest one to you/found. The damage to your armour can also be costly during world bosses with out the way point Rez costs. But that’s just me.

What are you crafting that you can’t get cheaper another way? If it’s weapons and armor you could use what you get as drops, or buy from karma vendors. Also a lot of people craft to level up (or so they can start crafting ascended) and will sell things they make at a loss just to get rid of them so it may well be cheaper to buy the finished product than to buy the materials and make it.

Also if you’re only playing 6 hours a week, mainly doing your dailies, and dying often enough to world bosses that the repair costs are a serious problem for you then I’d suggest you need to work on your dodging and/or general positioning during the fights. Aside from Tequatl they all have fairly simple and predictable mechanics so you shouldn’t really be dying more than once or twice in an encounter (less if there’s a lot of people doing it) and the reward you get for beating the boss should more than cover the repair costs.

@OP.. from the outset, it might seem like these taxes and charges are a bit of a nuisance, and I thought that as well when I first started playing the game. While that opinion might not have changed much, my playing style has and I’m now in a position to hoard/save gold for whatever I need thanks to better rewards in the game content that I partake in.

Quite simply, if you can’t make more money than this small gold sink, then maybe it’s time to re-evaluate your options in the game, specifically how you spend your time and what you do with what you’ve earned. It’s completely up to you, but these ‘gold sinks’ should be nothing compared to what you can make on top of them, without really trying.

You know what I find ridiculous? The absolute inability for some people to spell that word. Also, the very notion that NPCs are ‘stealing’ funds, that exist in an imaginary world no less, is pretty silly too. Since, you know, you’re required to donate them in the first place.

Let’s repeat that word: donate.

Please note that everything you listed isn’t required for you to continue to enjoy the game. Granted, it may take longer to cross the world, for example, but if you want to be cheap, you can hoof it since one to three silver is killing you.

BriarRose.5639:

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

This is suppose to be a game that is fun and you doing all the above is not making it fun. Why are you guys constantly looking for ways to take the money we spend hours trying to get? Where does the money really go? into thin air as the NPC’s are not real people, WP, TP and Winterdays Donation do nothing but STEAL FROM US.
We spend grinding hours of trying make money or get items which is getting to the point of NOT FUN. NOT FUN GET IT????

1-3. doing those things controls the economy from massive inflation (there is still inflation but less). if you don’t want to way point then walk there…

4. you dont have to spend the gold for the achieve if you don’t want to…

Certainly beats run-away inflation like what happened in Guild Wars 1. There were no gold sinks, so gold became so commonplace and worthless that people started trading other things as a more valuable currency like ectos and armbraces,.

^—- EXACTLY.
I have soooo much platinum in my GW1 bank, but it’s useless. Nobody purchased things with Platinum (equivalent to GW2’s gold), everyone purchased things with ectos.

I sort of agree with everyone here, they need gold sinks to make things fair but the item saturation on the TP is annoying. Things that have to be made need to be BOE, for a tailor bags are supposed to be good money makers, I can’t make hardly any money off them due to them being so common and that goes for anything on the TP, things need an expiration time. And making things become more valuable on the TP will create another Gold sink to help balance it out.

waypoint fees ranges from 1s+ to 4s+ which is reasonable.
i have 930 gold and i am a very casual player.
81% world completion (100% all 4 WvW maps though)
no legendary weapons (got one howl warhorn precursor sitting in bank)

trading post fees of 15% is very reasonable for a scam free trading experience.

casual farming is very rewarding. hardcore farming will of course be fixed. this is reasonable.

it is only 3 gold and 3 silvers in total.
not a very large amount. this is reasonable.

i lost more gold due to the moa racing achievements when it was first introduced.
that was kinda time consuming since it will take some time before i finally bet on the moa that will win first place.

overall guild wars 2 is still a fun experience for me.

BriarRose.5639:

The way this game is set up is rediculous:
1. You charge us to go to a WP, which is just stupid.
2. You charge us to list our stuff on the TP, another stupid idea.
3. Whenever we do find a way to make money you guys nerf it by stopping it or way lowering the drops we get.
4. Donate to Winterdays to get part of the achievements, is outragous.

This is suppose to be a game that is fun and you doing all the above is not making it fun. Why are you guys constantly looking for ways to take the money we spend hours trying to get? Where does the money really go? into thin air as the NPC’s are not real people, WP, TP and Winterdays Donation do nothing but STEAL FROM US.
We spend grinding hours of trying make money or get items which is getting to the point of NOT FUN. NOT FUN GET IT????

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’m guessing most replys on this thread are for people who play a lot. I’m lucky if I have enough time to do my dailies. I get time to play normally three times a week for 2 hours at most. So at most 6 hours a week dew to work and real life. The gold sinks are a pain for me. I find it hard to gather the gold needed to buy the extra mats I need ect for crafting buying items that I need. I know how important they are but some are silly. Like the cost for using one to Rez. It would work like it did in guild wars. You Rez at the closest one to you/found. The damage to your armour can also be costly during world bosses with out the way point Rez costs. But that’s just me.

Just imagine the costs when people start charging insane amounts because there is too much gold in the system making one gold equate to a silver now (or even a copper). It can, and very much will, happen if “gold sinks” are removed.

As for the second part, that’s on you. Six hours a week is more than enough time to learn the game.

These gold sinks…. I do not even notice them because the amounts are so puny. One boss event gives at minimum one guaranteed yellow. Just checked two yellows I had on me from world bosses (see www.gw2state.com for what is active) and there are buy orders for 26s and 35s right now. Don’t accept the buy orders…instead match the lowest seller. Not to mention how much gold a single dungeon run nets. Just running around and gaining ranks in wvw nets some silver each time as well…. enter wvw near the end of the week as it seems all three servers are not fighting anymore and just running karma trains on each other. Lots of karma, loot, and ranks then. Also there are the champ trains….easy easy loot….go to queensdale….troll,oak,spider,boar, sometimes wasp,bandit, and SB. If you could find out where to farm these mats “vicious fang” you could possibly make a lot …idk I have not tried it though. Idk why they put these “gold sinks” in as they seem so meaningless and not even worthy of notice. I sometimes wonder if there is some legal reason why…perhaps if some government ever decides that ingame currency is taxable and has real value. Idk.

Good luck.

I must say, everyone had problems getting money at the start, and alot of people were saying that this game asks for way too much taxes on things.

Every time a new person starts playing I hear “this game is so bad on rewards, I have no money at all.” TBH I struggled quite a bit myself, but recently I am around 200 gold at all times. And when i get below that it does indeed become hard to actually earn back money. Nowadays you just run fractals a dungeon or tequatl and you have 1 gold or more. That and doing achievement chests give quite a bit too.
I must say though that as a new player youre not likely to get into dungeons and achievement hunting or map completion right away.

Funnier was the person trying to convince me that the Trading post has no gold sink. But that’s a different story.

The issue I have with the Donation achievement is that you can’t just donate the highest amount and have it count for all achievements. Nope, you gotta individually donate each denomination.

Toroxus.9256:

Certainly beats run-away inflation like what happened in Guild Wars 1. There were no gold sinks, so gold became so commonplace and worthless that people started trading other things as a more valuable currency like ectos and armbraces,.

There were gold sinks in GW1, mainly buying identification kits and salvage kits.

But they weren’t very effective, I think because Anet were counting on the 100k cap on carried/traded gold to limit what people could charge. I don’t think they ever expected people to start using other things as currencies.

1. You are more free to run to those places rather than taking WP. It’s more of a convenience fee.
2. If listing would be free, it would make the in-game economy collapse.
3. Exploits will always be fixed. Most of the money making ways were just recently added by Anet themselves (ex. Champs drop boxes)
4. You don’t have to do this one to complete the meta at all. Daily achievement addition to meta requirement made it easier than ever to get your meta done.

Facepalm……….

All is Vain in PvE too I guess. =P

3g for 25 AP is a steal! Would pay again!

Omygosh. OP should have played gw1. The inflation there was crazy and there were tiny, tiny gold sinks. No traveling costs, no trading posts costs (there was no trading post). Once you were set up, there was just small occasional purchases to drain your gold

Your bank could hold 100,000 gold and your characters could hold 10,000 gold. I had
my bank maxed at 100,000 and a number of characters holding 10,000 each. A friend and I were farming items that sold for about 18,000 to 20,000 gold each (10,000 gold and then X number of ectos to make the rest). I remember selling an axe with good stats for about 5,000 gold. I was buying fluff items, like eternal tonics, for 10,000 to 50,000 gold or more each.

Edit: and I wasn’t even one of the rich people. There were people who were selling vanity items for millions of gold, and selling them. For example, the mini polar bear was selling for about 1,300 ectos. Iirc, ectos were priced about 8,500 gold each. This means one mini was selling for about 11,000,000 gold.

Anyone who complains about gold sinks needs to play in a game that doesn’t have enough of them. It’s an interesting, eye opening experience.

Astral Projections.7320:

Omygosh. OP should have played gw1. The inflation there was crazy and there were tiny, tiny gold sinks. No traveling costs, no trading posts costs (there was no trading post). Once you were set up, there was just small occasional purchases to drain your gold

Your bank could hold 100,000 gold and your characters could hold 10,000 gold. I had
my bank maxed at 100,000 and a number of characters holding 10,000 each. A friend and I were farming items that sold for about 18,000 to 20,000 gold each (10,000 gold and then X number of ectos to make the rest). I remember selling an axe with good stats for about 5,000 gold. I was buying fluff items, like eternal tonics, for 10,000 to 50,000 gold or more each.

Anyone who complains about gold sinks needs to play in a game that doesn’t have enough of them. It’s an interesting, eye opening experience.

I agree with the basis of what you’re saying, I just want to add one important note on the numbers:

There was no copper or silver in GW1. 1 gold was the smallest possible unit of currency, about equal to 1 copper in GW2. (It’s quite common to get 10g off the first enemy you kill for example.)

100,000 gold is still a lot of money, but not as much as it might seem if you’re used to the way GW2 does it.