First of all, I wanted to say that the map is amazing and I had loads of fun playing in it. It also feels way more optimized than the other maps currently in the game.
I also wanted to provide feedback on the actual size of servers. In the stress test, players could actually change servers whenever they wanted and quickly everyone ended on Yak’s Bend.
Now, let’s talk about roaming. The map itself is really fun to roam through and there are many spots to hide and make plays and this is really fun. On the other hand, you can’t really capture a supply camp by yourself now since there are more guards and this kinda lowers the importance of roamers by a fair bit.
Thanks for inviting me into the stress test, it’s been a pleasure to test the map
I could not do this, but one thing my partner and I do do is take over camps. Are you saying it harder then the normal one in the three. also were you trying to take it alone?
One thing I see is with the removal of guard stacks, sentries May become useless to kill. Giving them some sort of significant use may give roamers a reason to travel across the map, for example sentries capped now show enemy players in a radius around the sentry. This now helps commanders a lot, especially in a map that requires lots of travel and different routes to kind of track your enemy.
Its Not Apho – Necromancer – Callous Philosophy [LaG] – Anguîsh [Ash]
One thing I see is with the removal of guard stacks, sentries May become useless to kill. Giving them some sort of significant use may give roamers a reason to travel across the map, for example sentries capped now show enemy players in a radius around the sentry. This now helps commanders a lot, especially in a map that requires lots of travel and different routes to kind of track your enemy.
“Along with this change will come an improvement to sentries. Sentries will greatly slow down enemy dolyak caravans and thus slow down objective upgrades. This will make the payoff for controlling the route between supply camps and objectives and ensuring a successful caravan more important, further enhancing the strategic objectives in WvW.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/
One cool thing they could try is killing a sentry extends your shrine buffs by 3 minutes, and make the sentry pulse this out when it dies as an AOE attack to a max of 5 players (so zergs don’t take advantage of it).
One thing I see is with the removal of guard stacks, sentries May become useless to kill. Giving them some sort of significant use may give roamers a reason to travel across the map, for example sentries capped now show enemy players in a radius around the sentry. This now helps commanders a lot, especially in a map that requires lots of travel and different routes to kind of track your enemy.
“Along with this change will come an improvement to sentries. Sentries will greatly slow down enemy dolyak caravans and thus slow down objective upgrades. This will make the payoff for controlling the route between supply camps and objectives and ensuring a successful caravan more important, further enhancing the strategic objectives in WvW.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upgrading-world-vs-world-upgrades/
Not sure if that is enough but it is a start.
They already do that though but get rekt by dolyak guard escorts and since objectives auto upgrade in this new borderland it doesn’t make it worth capping imo.
Its Not Apho – Necromancer – Callous Philosophy [LaG] – Anguîsh [Ash]
Some reason I never had luck caping a camp on my own, but me and my partner easily destory them, and it fun, mostly because she not the best pvper, but of course, npc are a bit easier, and we like to help are server, as little as we can together.
One thing I see is with the removal of guard stacks, sentries May become useless to kill. Giving them some sort of significant use may give roamers a reason to travel across the map, for example sentries capped now show enemy players in a radius around the sentry. This now helps commanders a lot, especially in a map that requires lots of travel and different routes to kind of track your enemy.
Wait, WHAT?!
What do you mean “removal of guard stacks”?
Not keeping all IT jobs here is a major reason IT is so bad HERE. 33y IT 10y IT Security
Now, let’s talk about roaming. The map itself is really fun to roam through and there are many spots to hide and make plays and this is really fun. On the other hand, you can’t really capture a supply camp by yourself now since there are more guards and this kinda lowers the importance of roamers by a fair bit.
And yet in the thread below this one, Blade states
Map offers great opportunity and incentive to roamers/havoc, and forces that are prepared to split up.
Perhaps you could elucidate for the avoidance of confusion.
Nobody at Anet loves WvW like Grouch loved PvP. That’s what we need, a WvW Grouch, but taller.
How is the camp much harder BTW? A player can still face tank a fully upgraded camp + dolyak and their escorts + mercenaries at the moment, so if just twice that number, maybe will need to do two pulls for solo roamers. If way harder than that, it won’t be fun taking them alone.
HoT = Grind Wars 2
HoT = WvW players forced to PVE
Cause there are 100 players in peak hours there are also hours where all population fo a server can be counted on your 2 hands, and in case of t1 maybe your toes added.
I’ve run night shifts even on SFR where we had 4 ppl on 4 maps. so solo capping tends to be a thing.
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
Why do you think that it sould be intended to solo cap an objective on a map with (hopefully) 100 players?
Why do you think ESO failed so horribly compared to GW2? Oh that’s right – you needed bloody 100 people to take the eqvivalent of a GW2 camp because NPCs insta-killed everything in sight.
One of the best designed things about WvW is that it scales from 1 to 30+ players when it comes to what you can do on a border. Yes, camps can be soloed. That’s the very basic thing. Small groups take towers. Larger groups take keeps. That is a very good thing. It means that small amount of players can actually get a border going so that more players join, unlike in ESO where you needed an entire raid ready and waiting for you as you logged on just so you could play. Which meant that people logged on, went “meh no point” and logged off.
TL;DR
Its not going to be 100 people all the time. Its going to be 1 person at some point. I guarantee it.
I don’t say that it should take 100 players. But 5 players should be fine to take a camp, not only 1.
Wvw already has too many incentives to blob up it doesnt need more. Your ability to have an effect on the map should be gated by the player opposition not hard-capped artificially by the game’s npcs.
Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia
Wvw already has too many incentives to blob up it doesnt need more. Your ability to have an effect on the map should be gated by the player opposition not hard-capped artificially by the game’s npcs.
So what do you need NPC’s for if the camp is a free cap anyways?
Wvw already has too many incentives to blob up it doesnt need more. Your ability to have an effect on the map should be gated by the player opposition not hard-capped artificially by the game’s npcs.
So what do you need NPC’s for if the camp is a free cap anyways?
Time gating. (As long as it isn’t a ridiculous amount). You need to give time for the defenders to arrive to instigate fights.
Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia
The fact tgey auto upgrade make many more camps t2 (t3)
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
First of all, I wanted to say that the map is amazing and
Now, let’s talk about roaming. The map itself is really fun to roam through and there are many spots to hide and make plays and this is really fun. On the other hand, you can’t really capture a supply camp by yourself now since there are more guards and this kinda lowers the importance of roamers by a fair bit.
I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about, I was able to solo supply camps very easily. Upgraded camps yes take more than 1 person but that’s how the game should be played.
Making the shrine speed buffs last 10-15m instead of 5 would help a bunch, especially the more mobility-impaired classes.
no pls this map dont need to be a EotM 2.0, i dont like the idea of having buffs i mean, if they change guard stack bs of the buff, why would they put other and more strong…
also the map is very good in term of size its good and entretain for roaming with a few guys and take control of small fights the only thing i kinda hate was , that there was to many choke points
stab is gonna be very common to use not to fall off or die in a narrow place with mass aoe
Camps have 4 normal “charr guards” and a lord. Also when camp upgrades the dolyaks get escorts. Unlike in old camps you don’t have to kill dolyaks or escorts, since they are staying in stables next to the capture circle.
Also for roamers there are new targets: The Shrines.
Making the shrine speed buffs last 10-15m instead of 5 would help a bunch, especially the more mobility-impaired classes.
no pls this map dont need to be a EotM 2.0, i dont like the idea of having buffs i mean, if they change guard stack bs of the buff, why would they put other and more strong…
They removed the guard stacks because of the disparity between new and veteran players. 230 wvw ranks is a lot to gain when you’re new- when you also want to have some siege mastery. Now everyone can have buffs, no matter how long they’ve been playing.
I actually really like that the shrine buffs are only 5 mins. It basically means that, if you’re roaming or in a havoc group (meaning you’re likely taking shrines all the time) then you’ll have a really high uptime on the buffs. Whereas large zergs that focus on taking larger objectives won’t see much value in it, since it’ll likely wear off before they engage in a fight. It’s basically a buff primarily for roamers and havoc groups. If you increase the length of the buff, then zergs are gonna be swarming shrines too, which defeats their whole purpose as an objective for which roamers and small groups are better suited.
I believe that it’s easier to roam on the new map, there is a lot of speedbuffs from shrines and sentries. So you can traverse the terrain faster than you can in the old borderland map.
This stress test i spent close to all my time roaming. Personally had no problem flipping camps and shrines. For shrines standing behind the shrine buff stone allowed you to only fight the veteran which was easy. For (some) camps because of the multiple ways to take a drop on them you are actually able to defeat only the Supervisor without even disturbing the veteran defenders even the spawned dolyaks run right by you which arent even a problem to begin with.
-The buff from one shrine lasts you long enough to make it to the other shrine or give a boost if you run into trouble on the way.
My experience was that I could solo camps and shrines when I tried, by pulling and massing the NPCs strategically.
Also won a 2v2 in a hostile camp with guards swarming around us. Probably wouldn’t have if I were playing a class that couldn’t stealth, since being able to aggro-drop both guards and players was pretty critical.
For me, the main difference with the new guards seemed to be to discourage solo/duo break-ins into keeps. I really didn’t feel confident killing them all, half-building a ram, and then running for more supplies. That may change as I get used to the guard mechanics, though.
Why do you think that it sould be intended to solo cap an objective on a map with (hopefully) 100 players?
Why do you think ESO failed so horribly compared to GW2? Oh that’s right – you needed bloody 100 people to take the eqvivalent of a GW2 camp because NPCs insta-killed everything in sight.
Er wrong, it was quite possible to take farms etc with a small group, problems with ESO were with skills and balance.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I run a havoc guild, this map is made for us. Solo roamers may have issues and blobs will be easily countered. 5 man groups and 15-20 man organized groups will be the key here imo. Either way it is a game changer for wvw that I feel is sorely needed. The current meta is a push-pull with giant zergs, fight guilds and “roamers”/gankers that has become very stale. I feel this will change wvw to the point where the old guard will die off and a new breed of commanders and players will emerge. I like this:)
I run a havoc guild, this map is made for us. Solo roamers may have issues and blobs will be easily countered. 5 man groups and 15-20 man organized groups will be the key here imo. Either way it is a game changer for wvw that I feel is sorely needed. The current meta is a push-pull with giant zergs, fight guilds and “roamers”/gankers that has become very stale. I feel this will change wvw to the point where the old guard will die off and a new breed of commanders and players will emerge. I like this:)
The problem comes when the old guard die off, and there aren’t enough people left playing to be able to take anything in a reasonable time scale. Pve’rs won’t play it if they don’t start clocking up rewards, so after the third time trying to cap something for half an hour with 10 people against 2 on ACs they’ll go back to SW.
I liked roaming, lot of space, many different terrain giving you ton of options how to go through the fight.
About ac’s – there are counters to these too, but attacking T3 keep with defenders and siege is gonna be harder and take some longer time, depending on how clever the defenders use their time and sieges.
I’m pretty sure the intent of camps was never, NEVER for the purposes of being solo-able. That is why they added in the Sentry guys between points, which are entirely solo-able. The camps are intended to be taken by small groups of a handful of players or large groups. But again, they’re not really intended for solo players. That has more to do with Ascended gear creep (yes, it did creep a bit in comparison between 2012 and present) and creative play adjustment by players. But that is to change with the new WvW, which is a great thing.
I’m pretty sure the intent of camps was never, NEVER for the purposes of being solo-able. That is why they added in the Sentry guys between points, which are entirely solo-able. The camps are intended to be taken by small groups of a handful of players or large groups. But again, they’re not really intended for solo players. That has more to do with Ascended gear creep (yes, it did creep a bit in comparison between 2012 and present) and creative play adjustment by players. But that is to change with the new WvW, which is a great thing.
Since when and says who? Can you show me a quote saying they aren’t meant to be solo’d? Ascended gear creep? I’ve been soloing camps since early beta so I don’t know what that quip has to do with anything.
I’m pretty sure the intent of camps was never, NEVER for the purposes of being solo-able. That is why they added in the Sentry guys between points, which are entirely solo-able. The camps are intended to be taken by small groups of a handful of players or large groups. But again, they’re not really intended for solo players. That has more to do with Ascended gear creep (yes, it did creep a bit in comparison between 2012 and present) and creative play adjustment by players. But that is to change with the new WvW, which is a great thing.
Pretty sure people were soloing camps as soon as they learned how to stack and cleave.
The new camps seem plenty solo-able to me. They take longer because there are more melee guards and those guards have better defenses.
I’m pretty sure the intent of camps was never, NEVER for the purposes of being solo-able. That is why they added in the Sentry guys between points, which are entirely solo-able. The camps are intended to be taken by small groups of a handful of players or large groups. But again, they’re not really intended for solo players. That has more to do with Ascended gear creep (yes, it did creep a bit in comparison between 2012 and present) and creative play adjustment by players. But that is to change with the new WvW, which is a great thing.
I can solo camps with only exotic gear easily. In fact with certain builds on certain professions I can solo camps with exotic armor and random, non level 80 trinkets.
I had absolutely 0 problems flipping a camp. I don’t even know why he’s even mentioning the “Ascended gear creep” because we all had exotic gear in the beta.
And the difference between exotic and ascended gear is absolutely negligible. Your food and utilities make a lot more difference than ascended gear.
This map is a paradise for roamers. Taking the shrines can give your team an enormous advantage at a given time. The only thing that sucks is keeps and towers being automatically upgraded. I’m still convinced it’s not the best idea ever, and that there should be a different solution to this (even though I loved the new map).
The only thing that sucks is keeps and towers being automatically upgraded. I’m still convinced it’s not the best idea ever, and that there should be a different solution to this (even though I loved the new map).
I think automatic upgrades (as in, don’t have to pay gold for them, don’t have to babysit them by constantly selecting new upgrades) are great. I think the worry for roamers is with inevitable upgrades. Under the new system, objectives will upgrade whether yaks get to them or not; yaks will only speed up the process if they successfully reach an objective. This seriously diminishes the importance and weight of flipping camps and yakslapping.
One solution to this is to keep the automatic upgrades, but also require that a certain number of yaks reach an objective in order for each tier of upgrades to occur. That way roaming groups can still have a serious impact (denying upgrades) by flipping camps and killing yaks (like they currently do today).
The only thing that sucks is keeps and towers being automatically upgraded. I’m still convinced it’s not the best idea ever, and that there should be a different solution to this (even though I loved the new map).
Au contraire that is probably the best thing about it!^^
For all the low population servers upgrading was such a terrible pain because only a handful would do it and get ruined in the process. And all our stuff would not always be upgraded by pugs.
Now at least it’s better for our wallets AND we don’t have to suffer from the lazy kitten who won’t even spend a silver to upgrade suppl y delivery rates^^
Well dollies make it so that the upgrade goes faster (the timer reduces every time a dolly makes it to the tower/keep and only when that one is done/dead will another one spawn, as opposed to now where they are timed spawn). And they still refill the tower/keep supplies. It is different from the previous system that’s for sure.
But it’s definitely better when one person can’t screw over StoneMist/tower/camp upgrades by using the supplies to build the oils or just because he’s too lazy to run to a camp already upgraded/ing.
But it’s definitely better when one person can’t screw over StoneMist/tower/camp upgrades by using the supplies to build the oils or just because he’s too lazy to run to a camp already upgraded/ing.
No one said he disagree.
You can make upgrad doly-dependant without making it supply-dependant.
Imagine doly provide 2 different ressources, one for player, the other for upgrad only. easy
I remember someone who event photoshoped something to show that, no motivation to look for the topic soz ^^"
Tempest seems made careful not to make ele better in any way, since that would be bad
…
It does the job well :-)
I don’t know the actual times for an automatic upgrade. But I could imagine if they made it take like 3 hours from each tier to the next without dolly that would be ok. It would mean to get stronger gates without dolyaks it would take 6 hours.
That way people will still want to make sure that dollys reach the towers/keeps.
But if an automatic upgrade from one tier to the next without any dolyaks reaching the tower/keep takes only 30min – 1 hour then roamers will have far less impact which takes fun from roamers.
For me, the main difference with the new guards seemed to be to discourage solo/duo break-ins into keeps. I really didn’t feel confident killing them all, half-building a ram, and then running for more supplies. That may change as I get used to the guard mechanics, though.
I completely agree. And it’s good, because losing a keep to two people is really silly…
