I watched through some videos and they are fun to watch, thanks. That said, I can’t help but notice that the fights look quite messy and not very organized, at least to an untrained eye. I know from experience in other games that sometimes what looks like a mess from the outside is actually a well-orchestrated performance on the inside (but other times, a mess is just a mess), so…
Can you guys point me out to some resources (possibly threads on this forum?) which discuss strategical and tactical components of these battles? Things like group compositions, maneuvers and the likes. How deep is this thing?
Not here to start a flame war…
Can you guys point me out to some resources (possibly threads on this forum?) which discuss strategical and tactical components of these battles? Things like group compositions, maneuvers and the likes. How deep is this thing?
Thanks.
I recommend you watching “The Book” on Ogre’s Channel- he explains a lot in it.
For tactics etc i fear nothing is online yet, but I think the movements, regroups, combos, harrassment etc is pretty obvious to see in those battles. But maybe it’s just because we have the “trained eye”,
We were having a pretty good discussion in the last thread about numbers for GvGs, I think it’d be a good starting point to maybe renew that.
I think that 5-15s are best for the windmill area, because honestly, 20s feel a bit cluttered down there. I know 20s have traditionally always been there, but whenever I play a 20 in that area, I feel like it’s a lot more different to maneuver than in a more open area.
I think that guilds should start looking into other spots to GvG. I know it can be harder to coordinate pugs away from orange swords if you’re not below south camp, but it can be done. I’ve seen some really cool GvGs between west keep and garrison, and I think east of garrison is also a really underutilized spot. I’ve even had enjoyable unofficial 30s in those areas.
I recommend you watching “The Book” on Ogre’s Channel- he explains a lot in it.
For tactics etc i fear nothing is online yet, but I think the movements, regroups, combos, harrassment etc is pretty obvious to see in those battles. But maybe it’s just because we have the “trained eye”,
I can’t find the video that you mention, could you post a link here?
The movements, regroups, combos and harrassment are indeed pretty obvious, even to me, I am asking about something more advanced than that. A couple examples from other games:
line of sight abuse (we can hit them, they mostly can’t — fighting in the open kind of ruins that, which is a pity, since there’s a lot of interesting gameplay here, but maybe parts of it still exist?),
choke points (fighting in the open doesn’t help here either, but this should still be partly doable),
cc chains and cross-cc (yeah, I know, there are no diminishing returns, but again should still be partly doable),
grips into / out of death zones (thiefs can grip, right? maybe there are grips of several people or spammable grips, too),
etc.
Is anything like that possible / practiced? I heard something about focusing targets, that’s good, although pretty basic, anything deeper along that line?
I recommend you watching “The Book” on Ogre’s Channel- he explains a lot in it.
For tactics etc i fear nothing is online yet, but I think the movements, regroups, combos, harrassment etc is pretty obvious to see in those battles. But maybe it’s just because we have the “trained eye”,
I can’t find the video that you mention, could you post a link here?
The movements, regroups, combos and harrassment are indeed pretty obvious, even to me, I am asking about something more advanced than that. A couple examples from other games:
line of sight abuse (we can hit them, they mostly can’t — fighting in the open kind of ruins that, which is a pity, since there’s a lot of interesting gameplay here, but maybe parts of it still exist?),
choke points (fighting in the open doesn’t help here either, but this should still be partly doable),
cc chains and cross-cc (yeah, I know, there are no diminishing returns, but again should still be partly doable),
grips into / out of death zones (thiefs can grip, right? maybe there are grips of several people or spammable grips, too),
etc.
Is anything like that possible / practiced? I heard something about focusing targets, that’s good, although pretty basic, anything deeper along that line?
CC chaining is very doable, and pretty much essential in defeating some of the tankier guilds. Guardian GS pulls into hammerstuns is probably the most basic example I can give at this time in the morning. Same with focus fire and harassment of key targets. That is certainly becoming more common, even in 20v20. You’re more likely to get the ele to kitten up his waterfield placement if he’s constantly at 5k health.
LoS/Chokes are limited by the arena we have currently. I think most people would prefer an open, flat space to GvG on if Anet ever implemented something official. Chokes especially would probably just turn every GvG into a “who has the most aoe” contest. LoS would be interesting to have though.
The issues with trying to find other spots are numerous. Proximity to objectives dictates how likely you are to get unaware randoms adding on. Also a place for spectators & non participating guildmates needs to be considered. The hill, while not ideal, does serve well for that purpose.
On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.
On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.
funny you bring this up, i joked with some people about doing this recently – at least for NA. :P
On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.
funny you bring this up, i joked with some people about doing this recently – at least for NA. :P
Even if, there is a week cooldown on transfers so you would miss most of the fights.
It could work if there are multiple streamers, 1 for every server all using the same channel.
Someone could potentially shoutcast the stream.
Like, watching the stream, and then shoutcasting to those watching the stream via TS.
I.E. Everyone is watching a player stream, including the caster, and the caster is casting the action on the stream, rather than live and in person. This would cut down on spectator clutter too imo. Have a public TS channel where only the caster has talk power. Idk, i’m just throwing up ideas now.
It would require more people like ogro/sabull though, people with strong ties to the scene, and knowledge about whats going on, but without an affiliation to a current guild.
Could be something interesting for the 5star fights though. I’d love to watch GD vs VII livestream with shoutcasting.
On the subject of spectators. I’d love to see eventually a TS channel where the spectators can have someone shoutcast the fights live for them while they watch.
Realistically, without an official arena with spectator mode, this isn’t feasible, unless the casters are willing to pay a disgusting amount of gems each week.
funny you bring this up, i joked with some people about doing this recently – at least for NA. :P
grips into / out of death zones (thiefs can grip, right? maybe there are grips of several people or spammable grips, too)
There’s a couple of things in addition to what Soulorai said:
Current meta in general favors AoE skills over single-target ones. Without LoS- and choke-points (GvG spot being simple flat arena), you don’t have possibility to get an edge by applying pressure to part of the opponent’s team while being in the spot where they cannot do the same. So the idea is to harm as many enemies as possible constantly. Global harm may be direct or indirect. Most common case of indirect pressure to whole opposing team is RL harassment.
If you select another target for many-to-one harassment, like support elem as Soulorai mentioned, that’s in general suboptimal tactic since they will be attacking your whole team while you at least in part will be focusing someone specific. Nonetheless, it works well in cases where your opponent is on a regroup/disengaged and you caught someone on periphery or someone who just fell behind, for example as a result of cc+death bomb that you executed earlier which forced opponent to disengage. Because, at any rate, killing even a single opponent in 20v20 is huge. 2-3 is critical, 5 is basically gg. Even more so in 15vs15.
that’s in general suboptimal tactic since they will be attacking your whole team while you at least in part will be focusing someone specific.
Depends in fairness, I’ve had gvg’s were our backliners were completely and utterly ignored for the whole match. Only damage they took was from retal. They could (and some did) go full berserker and made a total mess of the enemy melee. One thief is all it would have taken for that to be a horrible, disastrous idea.
Also tbh necro’s are a much better target for that kind of harrasment. They just aren’t that well equipped to deal with being tunneled and if / when they die the enemy aoe spike takes a huge hit and becomes far less threatening. They make far more of a difference than many give them credit for or realise tbh.
Staff ele’s granted dont do well when being pressured but they have far more tools to deal with it, even if they’re quite glassy they’ll last a long, long time against a thief if they’re good.
Also some classes are basically wasted dropping damage into the main ball. Non Glamour Mesmers for instance, their clones die instantly in the main ball but they’re extremely annoying and dangerous if throwing them on the guys on the periphery. If your using two mesmers and a thief you’ll burn through an enemy backline extremely fast or at the very least hinder them adding to the main ball enough for your lesser ball to survive and compete.
Once a team runs out of necro’s and staff eles they’ve lost. Their spike wont be that much of a threat and fairly easy to survive and their ability to top themselves off and survive a long fight goes down the toilet.
Using a backline pressure tactic is more long game tactic, you’ll suffer in the first engagement or two and if you lose it’ll usually be in the first 20 secs. But most groups can survive losing a guardian or warr far, far more easily than a necro or staff ele.
Well obviously I’m horribly generalizing here since there are a lot of different strategies and team compositions. Basic idea stands however. The rest depends on what your opponent’s team composition is, what are their tactics and how well they execute on it.
What I was trying to say is in general AoE skills are more profitable than single-target. And then there are details.
Great Video , awesome fights.
Remembered to watch them live on chemso’s stream- your commentary is as point on as always.
And holy kitten dat Sabull part was awesome!
The perfectionist inside me died a little when i realised i forgot to complete the special thanks rotulation (and missed like 4 names), and that for some odd reason the pimp my gvg rotulation misaligned slightly on render. Maybe someday ill make a flawless episode, so far its resisting X_X
Thanks for the support and feedback guys, I love u. Feed me GvGs
Just shows the disconnect between most dedicated players and Anet who has no idea how vital GvG is for WvW, for keeping competition and motivation high.
I guess their perfect WvW is when all servers are like Vizunah. I’d love to see how it works out for them if GvG scene would disappear from WvW like this thread disappeared from WvW forum.
Just shows the disconnect between most dedicated players and Anet who has no idea how vital GvG is for WvW, for keeping competition and motivation high.
I guess their perfect WvW is when all servers are like Vizunah. I’d love to see how it works out for them if GvG scene would disappear from WvW like this thread disappeared from WvW forum.
I just really REALLY hope this isn’t anet hinting at their stance on GvG.
I find it amusing how this is removed from the WvW forums for not being about WvW yet the daily “please nerf thieves” threads remain
I can fight all the wanabees, haters, nobodies… but i wont fight Anet. They give in to a single troll and vanish the thread to oblivion? Not feeling very motivated tbh. I mean, responding literally to EVERY thread in the main page except ours wasnt funny enough, now this. Picture my Jimmies rustled.
Very logical and coherent to move us and leave other stuff like asuraball there. Massive loving. We’re suddenly worst than that pver infection. Baffled really.
What the hell, moving this to the darkest corner of the forums. Why??
Moving this requires a decision, reason. I can’t really figure out why this topic is better here than in world versus world forums… Doesn’t make too much sense.
I mean, responding literally to EVERY thread in the main page except ours wasnt funny enough, now this. Picture my Jimmies rustled.
Very logical and coherent to move us and leave other stuff like asuraball there. Massive loving. We’re suddenly worst than that pver infection. Baffled really.
prob got moved because the trolls were spam reported the thread. My guess Anet just got sick of always needing to check it, and finding nothing to remove.
Maybe it was all for better, the thread needed a change tbh, the focus shouldnt be my videos, the scene talk is more important. My videos are a footnote that add hype, thats all. Support the scene in the [[Unoficial GvG Scene Thread]] o/
Pff seems like anet already trying to forgot the ’’Guildwars’’ name. They dont give a single crp bout the guilds on the scene that actually try to play the game as it’s intended. Nah it must go pvd style. Bah, gg anet.
[Scnd] ‘13 ~ Smoking Weed, Scnd Rocks 4 ever.
[BuLL] ’13-’14 ~ Forever in my mind, only you.
So Ogro, will you continue to update this topic or post weekly threads in WvW forum for each episode? Or both?
I just already have over 9000 pages open in browser constantly to keep up with different things and not forget to visit one page or another, so adding to this number doesn’t really help if it is not worth it
