Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
On getting critcism
1 2
The problem isn’t, ultimately, if angry rants are as informative as normal posts. The problem is that nobody would want to sift through pages upon pages of bad posts.
Both of you are making the assumption that abusive, disrespectful post have nothing to learn from.
Nobody is making that assumption.
The point is that well-written posts have more to learn from, and are more worth reading most of the time. Rants are written to vent frustration, not to open a dialogue that you can learn from.
Again, you’re making the assumption that only well written respectful post have the most to learn from and the disrespectful post which are “rants written to vent frustration” have nothing to learn from? I used the word nothing because it’s either you agree that there is nothing and stand by this point thus making all disrespectful post useless in your eyes, or you agree there is something to learn from them but you see them as mostly useless because they’re hard to swallow.
Pick one or the other, because the latter means there is something to learn from but Anet isn’t professional enough to handle severe negative feedback thus coming back to the sugarcoating point.
In my eyes, you can learn something from everything. Even in the most vulgar and disrespectful post, there is always a reason tied to it. No one really vents frustration without any sort of explanation. There is almost always a reason. e.g. kitten kitten kitten, why is this game such a grind fest, kitten kitten kitten. No one just says, kitten kitten kitten and leave it at that.
Rants are mostly useless because they are mostly useless, not because they are “hard to swallow”.
They simply contain too much noise to find any useful signal in them. If you want to have a meaningful conversation, you must always post in a manner that makes communication easier, not harder. Just because you decide to type something doesn’t automatically make it worth reading or paying attention to. If you don’t put any effort to make your post more readable, nobody is going to read it.
That’s not a flaw in anyone’s thinking, it’s how we efficiently gather as much useful data as possible. Nobody will dig through a mountain of insults directed at him just to find traces of feedback that is readily available in unlimited quantities in other posts. It applies to rants as much as it applies to posts made with all caps, no paragraphs or grammar, and no punctuation.
Both of you are making the assumption that abusive, disrespectful post have nothing to learn from.
That’s the assumption that should be made.
If you guys honestly believe that Anet Devs will not take/use/incorporate a good suggestion/idea from a forum poster that is rude (even extremely so) you’re nuts. And the same goes for abrasively worded criticisms that are valid; they will act on them if it improves the game overall, and especially if the change will lead to more revenue.
Dev 1: Hey Boss, check out the great idea by a forum poster we just suspended for 3 days … it’s a great idea!
Boss: Oh hell yeah – put that one in right away, and also add a Gem store option so we can make a few bucks. And btw Dev1, forget 3 days, make it a 7 day suspension.
;-)
Colin Johanson to Eurogamer: "Everyone, including casual gamers,
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by Ision.3207)
I don’t think Anet is sitting there preening their feathers thinking about how great they are. I think Anet is scared to say stuff because the community is so rabid. Which is very different than someone who doesn’t listen to criticism.
When you burn away all the good will you built up from your previous game in record time and blatantly lie about the game, I guess you should expect criticism.
When the fanbase can’t see the difference between a lie and a change of direction based on observation and necessity, the fanbase is rabid.
Some of us understand why certain changes were made, whether we like it or not.
When you sell a game as having horizontal progression, like its prdecessor, and don’t have any. Then switch to vertical. Yeah I call that lying.
They had vertical progression in the game from the beginning. 80 levels? Hello?
They also have horizontal progression. Just because it’s not exclusive doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Total lies: 0
When you say this game is going to be an esport and you ship with it missing 90% of the features to make it so. Yeah I call that lying.
I call it over-promising. When beta rolled around I knew the game was releasing half-baked. I’m pretty sure GW2 is featured in both the MLG and ESL in some form as of now though, and the intent and PvP development was clearly communicated.
Total lies: 0
When you say you are going to make all types of play rewarding but you have crap rewards in WvW and filter people into fractals. Yeah I call that lying.
Look, maybe you’re new to the whole “MMOs are games that are never finished” concept, but the first year of an MMO is usually spent on getting features into the game that couldn’t make it in before release.
I think you should have adjusted your expectations to see this game as a game and not a second coming of the messiah.
Total lies: Yep, still 0.
When you make a game that has none of the soul or sophistication of its predecessors. Yeah I call that dodgy.
If it’s one thing this game absolutely has in spades, it’s soul. I disagree with you.
GW2 is quite sophisticated as a piece of technology and is extremely sophisticated as an evolution of MMO paradigms. GW1 is simplistic and outright stale by comparison.
I could go on, but Yes-men like you are the ones who have let Anet ruin this game by giving them poor feedback.
That’s funny, because this game is better than when I took a break from it about 6 months ago. Good thing your opinions aren’t facts.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I don’t know about that but a lot of the time people express their reasons at the same time as writing their abusive post. However abusive it may be, the reasons should be considered professionally without being thrown into the trash because they were not written constructively. Like I said, some people just don’t have patience left. Ever been jerked around by customer support so much that you just get reallllly realllly kitten ed off? Try ringing your internet service provider? “yes sir, we have put that order in for you, a technician is scheduled to come to your place in the next 2-3 days”, ring back 4 days later, new guy says, there is no such order placed under your account. Ha ha ha…
You get what i’m saying? I don’t promote abusive feedback, I’m just saying, don’t ignore it, don’t fight it, extract what’s useful and move on.
Why would anyone spend time extracting stuff from rants, when there are plenty of perfectly well-written posts to read? Time is a limited commodity.
By saying that, you’re being selective with your feedback. If you select only good specimens out of a random sample size, then it’s not going to be very valid is it? Also, there could be extremely good reasoning beneath the fury of a poster (since there was obviously enough reason for him to be so angry about it in the first place). To shake them off as the angry spoiled child is not professional at all. All feedback should be considered critically and fairly.
Personally, when I receive feedback on anything, sure i’m happy when it’s all rainbows and praises, but what i’m really interested in is the flaws! If someone went so far as to be angry about my work, then I really want to understand what caused such fury. Is it something reasonable? is so, how can I rectify it. By ignoring that feedback because it was abusive, you’re losing out on KEY information that could have made your game better.
You misunderstood what Chris Whiteside said they pay little attention to. There’s a big difference between a post that is simply angry, and a rant.
There’s rarely anything of value in rants, and you are never missing any KEY information that can’t be found simultaneously in a nearby well-written post. Simply put, if there’s a legitimate problem, someone will spend time to make a decent post about it.
Both of you are making the assumption that abusive, disrespectful post have nothing to learn from.
Nope. I’m making the assumption that abusive and disrespectful posts are simply bad, and should be given all the consideration they’re do. If a problem is important, someone reasonable will also post on it.
Three are thousands of posts. The hundreds that are rude can be ignored, because there will still be hundreds left to learn from.
Its very sad that a company, like ANet, block or bann people, only because they cant accept, that not all what they do is right or understandable (, especially if those people give good (or better) suggestions).
No wonder, why I’m blocked on YT by ANet.Please ANet, stop to avoid critique and censore the community.
We all want to improve our game.
This would make a lot more sense of most forums posts weren’t negative. Since most are negative, I would have to question the fact that Anet simply censors posts. I am one of the people who defend the game more than most, and I get infractions quite frequently and often my posts are removed.
/conspiracy theory
Dev 1: Hey Boss, check out the great idea by a forum poster we just suspended for 3 days … it’s a great idea!
Boss: Oh hell yeah – put that one in right away, and also add a Gem store option so we can make a few bucks. And btw Dev1, forget 3 days, make it a 7 day suspension.
Sorry, this whole thing is a hallucination made to validate a kind of bad behavior. Nobody does this. Instead they skip the angry, poisonous post and read the exact same suggestion from someone else what took the time to make the suggestion in a constructive way. Trying to convince people it’s okay to be mean doesn’t make it okay to be mean. When you attack people, the first thing they do is stop listening … but if you say things in a reasonable way – even if it’s an angry but reasonable way – it’ll get allot further.
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
Dev 1: Hey Boss, check out the great idea by a forum poster we just suspended for 3 days … it’s a great idea!
Boss: Oh hell yeah – put that one in right away, and also add a Gem store option so we can make a few bucks. And btw Dev1, forget 3 days, make it a 7 day suspension.
Sorry, this whole thing is a hallucination made to validate a kind of bad behavior. Nobody does this. Instead they skip the angry, poisonous post and read the exact same suggestion from someone else what took the time to make the suggestion in a constructive way. Trying to convince people it’s okay to be mean doesn’t make it okay to be mean. When you attack people, the first thing they do is stop listening … but if you say things in a reasonable way – even if it’s an angry but reasonable way – it’ll get allot further.
Okie Dokie, if you say so – LOL.
Colin Johanson to Eurogamer: "Everyone, including casual gamers,
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
Dev 1: Hey Boss, check out the great idea by a forum poster we just suspended for 3 days … it’s a great idea!
Boss: Oh hell yeah – put that one in right away, and also add a Gem store option so we can make a few bucks. And btw Dev1, forget 3 days, make it a 7 day suspension.
Sorry, this whole thing is a hallucination made to validate a kind of bad behavior. Nobody does this. Instead they skip the angry, poisonous post and read the exact same suggestion from someone else what took the time to make the suggestion in a constructive way. Trying to convince people it’s okay to be mean doesn’t make it okay to be mean. When you attack people, the first thing they do is stop listening … but if you say things in a reasonable way – even if it’s an angry but reasonable way – it’ll get allot further.
Okie Dokie, if you say so – LOL.
Actually he’s right. There’s no excuse for people to be deliberately insulting or abusive to people.
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link. That link isn’t negative, it’s pointing out healthy and positive ways to cope with criticism. I found this post as doing the Dev’s and the Moderators a service.
Let’s not derail this thread.
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link. That link isn’t negative, it’s pointing out healthy and positive ways to cope with criticism. I found this post as doing the Dev’s and the Moderators a service.
Let’s not derail this thread.
Bravo!
Of course they reacted defensively, the gazillion-post trolls rarely if ever offer any valid criticism or decent suggestion … that’s not their goal.
Colin Johanson to Eurogamer: "Everyone, including casual gamers,
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
We want everyone on an equal power base.”
You people should have been around in 2006/2007 when Guild Wars 1 was deemed to be rubbish, dead, useless etc. etc. It’s funny to see people here harping on about how good GW1 was and then spewing the same vitriol that I read 6-7 years ago.
And LinkR got the reply spot on. Upvote for you sir.
My sig has a perfect example.
And I think that ANet does appreciate criticism. However, there is a lot of criticism here that is absolutely useless. It may be a person’s honest reaction…but it can’t be used to make the game better and, in some cases, is only detrimental. They aren’t perfect (and a certain O’Brian needs to reconsider his attitude), but I do believe that they are actually trying.
Once constructive criticism is mastered on forums, then we can move the entire community forward…
Oh wait…this is the internet.
Here’s what people thought of GW1 when it first came out: http://tinyurl.com/bntcvyc
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
“A release is 7 days or less away or has just happened within the last 7 days…
These are the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria.”
If I were the owner of a business, and I had an employee come to me with a valid concern or suggestion, a lot of what I read into it will be conveyed through his/her tone.
Try to look at it this way:
Bad suggestion:
Employee 1: Why the kitten kitten did you kitten up the kittened copy machine service? You need to kittened kitten it back to the way it was or I’ll kitten quit!
Boss: Go ahead… quit… no skin off my nose. Here’s your last paycheck…
Good suggestion:
Employee 2: Yeah, I know Employee 1 has an abrasive way of saying things, but the copy service is broken now. We really do need to fix it before we do next week’s work.
Boss: Thanks… I’ll take it into consideration. And Employee 1 is still gone, because I don’t need people like that. Besides… there’s a reason I did it and you’ll understand after the next few office changes take place.
This is what you run into if you get too caustic. You may have a completely valid issue, and there may be valid economic reasons behind it, but if you express yourself like a kitten, then people will more than likely not only ignore you, but do something exactly opposite (as in “You don’t like this? Well…Let me show you!”)
Now, I know we all wish ANet would be as forthcoming as the Boss in the aforementioned conversations, but the whole idea is that we don’t know what goes on in their office unless we’re sitting there listening to their meetings.
Just take a chill and think about what you write. They will be like most people and consider your issue a lot more if you put it into a concise. polite manner than if you swear like a 14 year old every other word.
TL;DR:
If you put your thoughts into words in an intelligent manner, then the chances of someone listening to you will be much greater than if you’re whining and (literally) swearing every other word because you want something RIGHT NOW and you’ll /ragequit if you don’t get it
Level 80 Elementalist
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link. That link isn’t negative, it’s pointing out healthy and positive ways to cope with criticism. I found this post as doing the Dev’s and the Moderators a service.
Let’s not derail this thread.
Wait a second.
You don’t think it’s at all offensive that to make the assumption that Anet needs to learn this?
This is a professional company. They’ve made mistakes but I’ve yet to find an MMO developer that hasn’t made mistakes. Even companies that are fan oriented and have good communication make mistakes.
If anyone went to any professional developer and said, look, you need to see this video on how to take criticism…well I don’t really see how that wouldn’t be considered at the very least condescending…if not outright insulting.
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link. That link isn’t negative, it’s pointing out healthy and positive ways to cope with criticism. I found this post as doing the Dev’s and the Moderators a service.
Let’s not derail this thread.
“People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.”
The issue I take is the insinuation that pointing out what one does right and praising them for it is somehow toxic, even worse, the direct implication that if players like what you’re doing, they’re lying to you, and trying to harm you.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Funny that the very thread that’s indicating how to take criticism isn’t providing it. “On getting criticism” implies being offered criticism in the first place. Outright insults and “your patch broke everything and is just stupid” is not criticism.
This thread is like teaching a person how to eat when you haven’t given them any food in the first place.
Auroraglade
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working.
Epistemic.8013: Guys this is bullkitten a sentient plant creature is hitting these
wooden doors with fireballs and it’s working.
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link.
::snorts:: I understood the link just fine; but people took one quote outta that link, blew it outta proportion, misused it and then made it into some kinda war cry.
The whole point of the article was, “learn to accept criticism and use it to become stronger”. Good, fine, dandy. I’d say any professional artist has heard this and either taken it to heart or decided to toss it out the window. It isn’t news.
And even so, claiming people what compliment you aren’t offering anything useful – and are really just useless – is absurd. Knowing what you’re doing right is just as important as knowing what you’re doing wrong. “A is bad, B is good, C is bad” Without someone to tell you B is good all you hear is “This A-C section is bad” and you change it. In the process maybe you ruin B.
Another example: When you’re writing a paper in school, the teacher doesn’t hand it back and say, “it was bad, rewrite it”. (unless the whole thing was terrible) She says, “Good, solid thesis statement; the second paragraph felt weak, you need more sources; the section on the study itself was informative, but I think it would have been better if you switched paragraph 3 and 4. Where did you find the information in this sentence? You need to include a reference. The conclusion could use some tightening up, but it is mostly decent.”
Wow, both positive where the paper is good and offering useful criticism where it needs work. It’s like, you can do both at the same time …
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Thank you!
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
Sure Arenanet should read that site. Meanwhile a good chunk of the playerbase could read something on providing mature, civilized and constructive manner.
Neither side is innocent.
“We have no first-person view because stupid people would lock into it”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
“You can’t have more than 10 HS decks because that would confuse people”
“30 fps is more cinematic”
I don’t think Anet is sitting there preening their feathers thinking about how great they are. I think Anet is scared to say stuff because the community is so rabid. Which is very different than someone who doesn’t listen to criticism.
When you burn away all the good will you built up from your previous game in record time and blatantly lie about the game, I guess you should expect criticism.
This is where a lot of the “criticism” comes from; from gross exaggerations.
So telling Anet that they are doing a good job is dangerous? It is wrong to say something that you like about the game?
You got to have some bad to make the good even better.
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The best mentors and teachers I’ve had, that anyone has ever had, have been harsh. And none of them have tip-toed around my preexisting biases for my work. Because if they weren’t harsh, and they didn’t challenge what I thought, their critique would be worthless.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique against that isn’t said prettily enough and later on states they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
I don’t think we read the same thread, because That’s not what I got from it at all.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
Yeah, I’d love ta see that quote – because I couldn’t find it.
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
I bet they won t change almost anything in their ascended plan…..despite this last days feedback was clear.
If we will see in a near patch, craftable ascended armor handled in a similar way to ascended weapons will be clear Anet once again doesn t care, and last posts have a different purpose like damage control or similar.
All of this is based on opinions, and there are people who have differing opinions. Just because they do not make changes based on your opinion, doesn’t mean they don’t care. If craftable ascended armor is handled the same way, then chances are, they saw that the current system was actually well received by the general players.
Oh and your last quote in your signature, shows proof that people take 1 phrase out of a whole paragraph and then use it in a different meaning that Anet actually meant it. And then people use it to critique Anet and want an explanation for it, but Anet never actually said that, at least not in the meaning that some people use it as.
(edited by eisberg.2379)
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The best mentors and teachers I’ve had, that anyone has ever had, have been harsh. And none of them have tip-toed around my preexisting biases for my work. Because if they weren’t harsh, and they didn’t challenge what I thought, their critique would be worthless.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
That’s not what the developer states. I guess you are going to misuse his post and twist everything he said, just like people did with the manifesto.
Its very sad that a company, like ANet, block or bann people, only because they cant accept, that not all what they do is right or understandable (, especially if those people give good (or better) suggestions).
No wonder, why I’m blocked on YT by ANet.Please ANet, stop to avoid critique and censore the community.
We all want to improve our game.This would make a lot more sense of most forums posts weren’t negative. Since most are negative, I would have to question the fact that Anet simply censors posts. I am one of the people who defend the game more than most, and I get infractions quite frequently and often my posts are removed.
/conspiracy theory
That’s probably because all that does is start flame wars and are useless posts.
I’m not sure where the need to come in and defend Anet just because people have a problem with something in the game comes from, you’re not balancing the “negativity” with your “positivity”, you just make it worse and derail threads that way. You should just remain neutral and discuss the topic on hand.
No one here is condoning abusive behavior, it shouldn’t be encouraged, I just say that it also shouldn’t be dismissed completely. Doesn’t affect me much since I do post constructively.
I don’t think Anet is sitting there preening their feathers thinking about how great they are. I think Anet is scared to say stuff because the community is so rabid. Which is very different than someone who doesn’t listen to criticism.
When you burn away all the good will you built up from your previous game in record time and blatantly lie about the game, I guess you should expect criticism.
When the fanbase can’t see the difference between a lie and a change of direction based on observation and necessity, the fanbase is rabid.
Some of us understand why certain changes were made, whether we like it or not.
When you sell a game as having horizontal progression, like its prdecessor, and don’t have any. Then switch to vertical. Yeah I call that lying.
When you say this game is going to be an esport and you ship with it missing 90% of the features to make it so. Yeah I call that lying.
When you say you are going to make all types of play rewarding but you have crap rewards in WvW and filter people into fractals. Yeah I call that lying.
When you make a game that has none of the soul or sophistication of its predecessors. Yeah I call that dodgy.
I could go on, but Yes-men like you are the ones who have let Anet ruin this game by giving them poor feedback.
You are going to have to back that up. I don’t recall Anet ever saying the game was going to be about Horizontal Progression. I didn’t pay attention to PvP information, so no comment on that. About rewards comment, clearly that is subjective opinion you have there. Does it reward? Yes. Clearly you just do not like the rewards, which is subjective, and doesn’t mean that Anet lied.
Critique them on the things you do not like, rewards sound like it would be valid, but don’t call them a liar because you feel the rewards are bad. Critiquing them on Horizontal progression really isn’t valid when (as far as I can recall) Anet never actually said the game was going to be about horizontal progression.
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The best mentors and teachers I’ve had, that anyone has ever had, have been harsh. And none of them have tip-toed around my preexisting biases for my work. Because if they weren’t harsh, and they didn’t challenge what I thought, their critique would be worthless.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
That’s not what the developer states. I guess you are going to misuse his post and twist everything he said, just like people did with the manifesto.
The moderators who immediately censored those who spoke up about censorship in that very thread, on the cue of a community lead no less, without the least bit disrespectful tone, would say otherwise. And exactly how was the subject of staff censorship of the community, in a thread speaking about relations between the staff and community, off-topic in the first place?
To someone who has complete control over what you are permitted to say, anything they don’t wish to hear is disrespectful.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The best mentors and teachers I’ve had, that anyone has ever had, have been harsh. And none of them have tip-toed around my preexisting biases for my work. Because if they weren’t harsh, and they didn’t challenge what I thought, their critique would be worthless.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
Yep, I read the sticky thread. I agree with the premise.
I used to write professionally, and I had ideas that I wanted to get out there. Period. You could critique those ideas from today till next thursday and if the core premise of what I was doing changed. the entire project changed. Could it be done? Sure. Would I be willing to do it. No.
We’re not talking about editing a few words, or deleting a paragraph. We’re talking about a core principle. Let’s say I was writing a romance and an editor said, this would be much more entertaining with a murder in it. Well yeah, maybe, but I’m not writing a murder. That’s why core principles shouldn’t be messed with.
As for the other, they didn’t say anything about “pretty enough” they said abuse won’t be tolerated…and it shouldn’t be.
What they need to understand is the specific things people criticise, like not enough skills for all classes, not enough traits, not enough variation in builds, ranger pets sucks, SPvP sucks because reason etc etc.
They already know all that.
Apparently not
Actually they do. People need to stop posting links to basic knowledge like it’s some kind of revelation.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
I’m currently in art school, already have some professional work under my belt, and second generation in the industry. The best mentors and teachers I’ve had, that anyone has ever had, have been harsh. And none of them have tip-toed around my preexisting biases for my work. Because if they weren’t harsh, and they didn’t challenge what I thought, their critique would be worthless.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
That’s not what the developer states. I guess you are going to misuse his post and twist everything he said, just like people did with the manifesto.
The moderators who immediately censored those who spoke up about censorship in that very thread, on the cue of a community lead no less, without the least bit disrespectful tone, would say otherwise. And exactly how was the subject of staff censorship of the community, in a thread speaking about relations between the staff and community, off-topic in the first place?
To someone who has complete control over what you are permitted to say, anything they don’t wish to hear is disrespectful.
Your opinions are not facts. Stop presenting them as such.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
As for the other, they didn’t say anything about “pretty enough” they said abuse won’t be tolerated…and it shouldn’t be.
Their exact wording in the OP was ‘disrespectful’, respect is dependent on the person expecting it. One person could consider only the most heinous actions to be disrespectful, another could consider any challenge to his words or actions as disrespectful.
It is not an evenly balanced scale to be judge by.
Your opinions are not facts. Stop presenting them as such.
Your opinion that my post was presented as fact is not a fact. Stop presenting it as such.
(edited by Conncept.7638)
Their exact wording in the OP was ‘disrespectful’, respect is dependent on the ego of the person expecting it. One person could consider only the most heinous actions to be disrespectful, another could consider any challenge to his words or actions as disrespectful. It is not an evenly balanced scale to be judge by.
And hyperbole isn’t just a river in Egypt anymore.
What?
I’m sorry I stepped outta yer box, don’ worry, if
ya whine enough they’ll put me right back.
Amusing to see the very people described in that extract proving it to be correct.
Their exact wording in the OP was ‘disrespectful’, respect is dependent on the ego of the person expecting it. One person could consider only the most heinous actions to be disrespectful, another could consider any challenge to his words or actions as disrespectful. It is not an evenly balanced scale to be judge by.
And hyperbole isn’t just a river in Egypt anymore.
What?
Nice buzzword, do you know what it means?
Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Used literal wording found from my source, presented example as two ends of a gradated scale, based on the common definition of the word on its potential use as applied to the situation. Exactly what there was exaggerated? And how does one exaggerate a gradation? Let alone a hypothetical question?
(edited by Conncept.7638)
As for the other, they didn’t say anything about “pretty enough” they said abuse won’t be tolerated…and it shouldn’t be.
Their exact wording in the OP was ‘disrespectful’, respect is dependent on the ego of the person expecting it. One person could consider only the most heinous actions to be disrespectful, another could consider any challenge to his words or actions as disrespectful. It is not an evenly balanced scale to be judge by.
Your opinions are not facts. Stop presenting them as such.
Your opinion that my post was presented as fact is not a fact. Stop presenting it as such.
Read the most recently sticky’d thread at the top of the page, in which a developer blatantly states that they accept no critique that isn’t said prettily enough and later on state they accept no critique against their pre-existing design goals.
The guidelines they have set on their acceptance of critique equate to accepting no critique at all.
That’s two statements that don’t include “I think,” “I feel,” or anything similar.
To someone who has complete control over what you are permitted to say, anything they don’t wish to hear is disrespectful.
Also stated as fact, and that’s objective.
The fact that you honestly believe that Anet is operating on a “I don’t want to hear that, therefore it’s disrespectful” prerogative just because the possibility exists, is enough for any reasonable person to discount your opinion.
You’re arguing an absurdity.
“I didn’t buy into GW2 being the second coming of christ.
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
I just wanted a AAA MMO with no sub made by ArenaNet. And it’s awesome.”
(edited by Mackdose.6504)
quote
If you define a any statement as a fact because it isn’t blatantly labeled as hypothesis or formed as a question, everything you have said is stated as fact. How then do you not match the definition of a totalitarian that you yourself have set?
What strikes me as a bit funny is, those that posted defensively, obviously didn’t understand the link. That link isn’t negative, it’s pointing out healthy and positive ways to cope with criticism. I found this post as doing the Dev’s and the Moderators a service.
Let’s not derail this thread.
Wait a second.
You don’t think it’s at all offensive that to make the assumption that Anet needs to learn this?
This is a professional company. They’ve made mistakes but I’ve yet to find an MMO developer that hasn’t made mistakes. Even companies that are fan oriented and have good communication make mistakes.
If anyone went to any professional developer and said, look, you need to see this video on how to take criticism…well I don’t really see how that wouldn’t be considered at the very least condescending…if not outright insulting.
The point of this thread was to link to an article from a fellow mmo dev that I thought had some good points that some people at ANET might find enlightening. I’m not saying that they aren’t smart enough to know what’s in the article, but it gives them a different way to think and approach criticism.
Rangir Dangir – Ranger | Mr. Ragr- Guardian| Sneak Stab – Thief | Mr. Ragir- Warrior
[url=https://] [/url]
[url=https://] [/url]
Hello,
As this thread has derailed with off-topic and inflammatory comments, it is now closed.
Thank you for your understanding.
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