Guild Wars 2

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=52cadab6e4b08a14ac5cf3e1

Hot topic regarding balance and build diversity in pvp recently.

Which runeset do you feel above all others is the most powerful, and what brings you to vote this way?

Do you feel any are too powerful/too widely useful? How powerful do you believe a 6 piece bonus should be? Are there any sets you believe to be so powerful that they bring a certain spec/profession from non-viable without it to viable with it? Have your say!

Cute, putting Lyssa at the very top and Ogre/Scholar at the very bottom. At least you’re aware of how biases work. Why not alphabetically?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/08/behavioral-bias

Gaming the results (consciously or unconsciously) won’t help your argument.

Because I made the poll at first from memory, then from the listings on Dulfy, that’s why you might consider that famour runesets are at the top, then the others are listed in condition dur/condition dmg/healing/precision/power order – and then alphabetically. Formatting complaints can be sent to HR, if you are too impatient to scroll then use ctrl + F

azuzephyr.7280:

Consider; why didn’t you make the poll?

Because I didn’t claim numbers existed to back up something I was claiming was a fact when no such numbers existed – you did (For Reference: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Crying-about-lyssa-again/first#post3459226 ). The burden of proof is on you – as flawed as these results will be, you’ll still use them.

Formatting complaints can be sent to HR, if you are too impatient to scroll then use ctrl + F

It’s not a complaint, I’m just pointing out how flawed your data will be now, so that when you try to use it to justify your point you’ll already be aware of my opinion concerning it.

Move on please, you have made your opinion known and its derailing yet another thread

You are welcome to make a poll in any format you wish, I’d vote the same regardless

azuzephyr.7280:

Move on please, you have made your opinion known and its derailing yet another thread

You are welcome to make a poll in any format you wish, I’d vote the same regardless

See, the issue is you’ve already made your conclusion. You’re gathering data to support a conclusion you’ve already made without data, rather than drawing a conclusion from gathered data. Instead of being concerned that the data you’re gathering is subject to a bias, you accuse me of derailing a thread when I point out the flaws in your data collection. You’re too focused on “proving” (notice the quotes) your conclusion to gather objective data on the argument (Not that a poll is really all that useful for this anyway, but it’s the best we’re going to get)This is the problem with forum discussions with most players – you’re not interested in any argument or reasoning that doesn’t lead to your conclusion.

evilapprentice.6379

)This is the problem with forum discussions with most players – you’re not interested in any argument or reasoning that doesn’t lead to your conclusion.

Oh, the irony.

Since you don’t seem interested in data which doesn’t lead to your conclusion then I don’t know what else to say to you, other than to again, stop derailing this thread with some rant and step away from the keyboard

And if you want to run acceptable p values to correlate the response bias you are more than welcome, I’ll hand over the SD/response values as soon as the poll closes. However given current trends, I doubt it’ll be necessary.

It’s actually a important subject, but the ideal format would maybe be having a scale from “never useful” to “always useful” to score all runes to give more data, showing not only which runes we consider strong (or too strong) but also which runes are never in any situation going to be taken.

But that would probably take up too much time for people to answer, maybe if you could answer as many as you would like and the average value is calculated based on that.

Will definitely do some followup once one round has been collected, AFAIK that free site doesn’t support graded answers, just single votes or multiple answers

evilapprentice.6379:

Cute, putting Lyssa at the very top and Ogre/Scholar at the very bottom. At least you’re aware of how biases work. Why not alphabetically?

It was a great choice to put Lyssa at the top. That’s the one everyone will be looking for after entering the poll, after all.

NevirSayDie.6235:

evilapprentice.6379:

Cute, putting Lyssa at the very top and Ogre/Scholar at the very bottom. At least you’re aware of how biases work. Why not alphabetically?

It was a great choice to put Lyssa at the top. That’s the one everyone will be looking for after entering the poll, after all.

Anyone is free to provide data where Lyssa is at the bottom of the option list

I personally love the water runes, with my 1388 healing power and 20 second cooldown heal, it’s like a double water blast for my engi free of charge.

evilapprentice.6379:

Cute, putting Lyssa at the very top and Ogre/Scholar at the very bottom. At least you’re aware of how biases work. Why not alphabetically?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/08/behavioral-bias

Gaming the results (consciously or unconsciously) won’t help your argument.

What Evil says is true; at least put them in alphabetical order, or, better yet, if you have the option, randomize their positions for each time somebody looks at the poll.

Also, it’s extremely difficult to say which rune set is “the best”. There are a few runesets that I set aside as my go-to runes for specific types of builds when I’m just trying to make a quick build (Undead for condis, Ogre for direct damage, Dolyak for bunker), but there are a number of runesets that shine in very, very specific circumstances. As a result, I don’t think that it’s wise to evaluate the power of runesets without putting them in the context of a build.

kitten . I was going to vote Krait but I forgot about it. Oh well.

azuzephyr.7280:

evilapprentice.6379

)This is the problem with forum discussions with most players – you’re not interested in any argument or reasoning that doesn’t lead to your conclusion.

Oh, the irony.

Since you don’t seem interested in data which doesn’t lead to your conclusion then I don’t know what else to say to you, other than to again, stop derailing this thread with some rant and step away from the keyboard

And if you want to run acceptable p values to correlate the response bias you are more than welcome, I’ll hand over the SD/response values as soon as the poll closes. However given current trends, I doubt it’ll be necessary.

Your data is pointless if it’s faultily collected. Statistics 101, kids.

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

evilapprentice.6379

)This is the problem with forum discussions with most players – you’re not interested in any argument or reasoning that doesn’t lead to your conclusion.

Oh, the irony.

Since you don’t seem interested in data which doesn’t lead to your conclusion then I don’t know what else to say to you, other than to again, stop derailing this thread with some rant and step away from the keyboard

And if you want to run acceptable p values to correlate the response bias you are more than welcome, I’ll hand over the SD/response values as soon as the poll closes. However given current trends, I doubt it’ll be necessary.

Your data is pointless if it’s faultily collected. Statistics 101, kids.

1) there is no such thing as value freedom, by your logic all data is pointless, correctly all data is flawed it merely has value attached to it
2) anyone who believes that the landslide lead by Lyssa is due to order bias should really skip the college level classes

If you believe that order bias is at hand, then create another survey. That free website does not provide randomized answers as an option.

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

evilapprentice.6379

)This is the problem with forum discussions with most players – you’re not interested in any argument or reasoning that doesn’t lead to your conclusion.

Oh, the irony.

Since you don’t seem interested in data which doesn’t lead to your conclusion then I don’t know what else to say to you, other than to again, stop derailing this thread with some rant and step away from the keyboard

And if you want to run acceptable p values to correlate the response bias you are more than welcome, I’ll hand over the SD/response values as soon as the poll closes. However given current trends, I doubt it’ll be necessary.

Your data is pointless if it’s faultily collected. Statistics 101, kids.

1) there is no such thing as value freedom, by your logic all data is pointless, correctly all data is flawed it merely has value attached to it
2) anyone who believes that the landslide lead by Lyssa is due to order bias should really skip the college level classes

If you believe that order bias is at hand, then create another survey. That free website does not provide randomized answers as an option.

1. No, of course there isn’t, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t try to reduce it as much as possible. You haven’t even put in any effort to do that.

2. No wonder you’re so ignorant of statistics.

Ogre, obviously. Used in pretty much any glass cannon build.

Whereas Lyssa on the other hand is only used in one Thief build which is no longer meta, and Warriors that take Signet over Banner (not many I think).
That’s not to say however the 6 bonus is extremely biased towards these builds and should be balanced out.

Opinion noted, awaiting counter statistics

azuzephyr.7280:

Opinion noted, awaiting counter statistics

It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of statistical fact.

I voted for Flock. OP attack birds.

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Actually I have never once said that the poll is flawless, quite the opposite, I don’t believe in value freedom, that’s all you.

But if you think you are fooling anyone by saying that Lyssa is flying to the top by a landslide in an optional poll by virtue of order bias, you are insulting the both of us.

That poll might be inaccurate to a degree. Without any evidence of your own, your claims are wildly more inaccurate, you just don’t like it, so kindly put them to rest where they belong.

Of course the poll constitutes evidence. It might not be proof, but it certainly is evidence.

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Actually I have never once said that the poll is flawless, quite the opposite, I don’t believe in value freedom, that’s all you.

But if you think you are fooling anyone by saying that Lyssa is flying to the top by a landslide in an optional poll by virtue of order bias, you are insulting the both of us.

That poll might be inaccurate to a degree. Without any evidence of your own, your claims are wildly more inaccurate, you just don’t like it, so kindly put them to rest where they belong.

Nor have I ever claimed that you’ve claimed that the poll is flawless.

Nor have I ever claimed that Lyssa is “flying to the top by a landslide” by “virtue of order bias”. I have, however, claimed that it has produced some degree of a bias that you cannot account for, and therefore the poll must be faulty. The degree to which it is faulty is debatable, but it clearly is, which is what matters.

Your definition of evidence seems to be purely empirical and opinion-based. That’s nice, but opinions are inherently biased and are therefore somewhat flawed. I base my evidence off of theoretical knowledge about the game, the basis of which I’ve justified many, many times.

Arganthium.5638:

I base my evidence off of theoretical knowledge about the game, the basis of which I’ve justified many, many times.

It’s biased

Slim.3024:

Of course the poll constitutes evidence. It might not be proof, but it certainly is evidence.

You’re statistically illiterate. If I asked you to choose between two ice cream flavors and determine which is better, and then I told you that your options were chocolate and chocolate, I wouldn’t conclude at the end of my study that chocolate is better than vanilla. Or, if I went into some ultra-conservative part of the US- say, Texas- I wouldn’t conclude that the vast majority of Americans are Republicans. Those are just two examples of ways in which a researcher can influence his/her results, and, similarly, Azuze has chosen to bias the results of his poll as well, and thus it is just as unreliable.

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Actually I have never once said that the poll is flawless, quite the opposite, I don’t believe in value freedom, that’s all you.

But if you think you are fooling anyone by saying that Lyssa is flying to the top by a landslide in an optional poll by virtue of order bias, you are insulting the both of us.

That poll might be inaccurate to a degree. Without any evidence of your own, your claims are wildly more inaccurate, you just don’t like it, so kindly put them to rest where they belong.

Nor have I ever claimed that you’ve claimed that the poll is flawless.

Nor have I ever claimed that Lyssa is “flying to the top by a landslide” by “virtue of order bias”. I have, however, claimed that it has produced some degree of a bias that you cannot account for, and therefore the poll must be faulty. The degree to which it is faulty is debatable, but it clearly is, which is what matters.

Your definition of evidence seems to be purely empirical and opinion-based. That’s nice, but opinions are inherently biased and are therefore somewhat flawed. I base my evidence off of theoretical knowledge about the game, the basis of which I’ve justified many, many times.

That he doesn’t care is very telling. Azuze isn’t out to prove a fact – he’s out to prove his point, using any means necessary. It’ll be hard to take anything he says seriously because he’s fishing for data to prove his point, rather than gathering data then making a conclusion.

He was alerted to the issue with his poll very soon after it was posted. If he cared about the integrity of the poll, he had opportunity to fix it. Instead he insisted that if someone wanted a fair and unbiased poll, that was on them.

Arg, you are the most biased and unempirical person in this thread, you are trying foolishly hard to disprove this with zero facts of your own to back any of it up.

So unless you want to make a perfect poll of your own that would disprove the findings in this one just take your passive aggressive rage back to the thief forum where everyone will give you a pat on the back and tell you its ok.

I have literally no idea why you are still here unless you are so terrified that this could suggest something against your views. The evidence isn’t perfect, no evidence is, but what is your evidence? Personal vendetta based around 0 supporting numbers. You are the last person who can talk about empiricism here.

evilapprentice.6379

He was alerted to the issue with his poll very soon after it was posted. If he cared about the integrity of the poll, he had opportunity to fix it. Instead he insisted that if someone wanted a fair and unbiased poll, that was on them.

Actually wrong again but here we go;

Nobody, not even you, has said the poll is unbiased, I’m saying that your claim that the bias is morphing the findings in any reasonable way is laughable and you are clutching at straws to prove your point. Put Lyssa at the bottom, take Lyssa away as an option at all, it wont make any difference, you’re just trying very hard to make people believe it would.

Yes, I am proving a point, I’m doing it with evidence gathered from the pvp playerbase, and this is what is upsetting you.

Arganthium.5638:

You’re statistically illiterate. If I asked you to choose between two ice cream flavors and determine which is better, and then I told you that your options were chocolate and chocolate, I wouldn’t conclude at the end of my study that chocolate is better than vanilla. Or, if I went into some ultra-conservative part of the US- say, Texas- I wouldn’t conclude that the vast majority of Americans are Republicans. Those are just two examples of ways in which a researcher can influence his/her results, and, similarly, Azuze has chosen to bias the results of his poll as well, and thus it is just as unreliable.

Are you seriously trying to say that the different degrees of bias you are comparing are irrelevant and that any form of bias automatically destroys any statistics?

63% have voted for Lyssa and you are trying to attribute this to the somewhat biased representation of choices.

I get that you are bored and like to argue on the forums, but not everything can or has to be twisted. Sometimes you’ll just look stupid and it’s best to move on.

Slim.3024:

Arganthium.5638:

You’re statistically illiterate. If I asked you to choose between two ice cream flavors and determine which is better, and then I told you that your options were chocolate and chocolate, I wouldn’t conclude at the end of my study that chocolate is better than vanilla. Or, if I went into some ultra-conservative part of the US- say, Texas- I wouldn’t conclude that the vast majority of Americans are Republicans. Those are just two examples of ways in which a researcher can influence his/her results, and, similarly, Azuze has chosen to bias the results of his poll as well, and thus it is just as unreliable.

Are you seriously trying to say that the different degrees of bias you are comparing are irrelevant and that any form of bias automatically destroys any statistics?

63% have voted for Lyssa and you are trying to attribute this to the somewhat biased representation of choices.

I get that you are bored and like to argue on the forums, but not everything can or has to be twisted. Sometimes you’ll just look stupid and it’s best to move on.

As Evil said, Azuze had the option to fix the poll very soon after it was posted, as he was alerted to its inaccuracy. This is something that any undergrad should be able to do.

I cannot say that the 63% is completely a result of the poll bias, but the poll is clearly inaccurate and is at least somewhat influenced by the bias.

azuzephyr.7280:

Arg, you are the most biased and unempirical person in this thread, you are trying foolishly hard to disprove this with zero facts of your own to back any of it up.

So unless you want to make a perfect poll of your own that would disprove the findings in this one just take your passive aggressive rage back to the thief forum where everyone will give you a pat on the back and tell you its ok.

I have literally no idea why you are still here unless you are so terrified that this could suggest something against your views. The evidence isn’t perfect, no evidence is, but what is your evidence? Personal vendetta based around 0 supporting numbers. You are the last person who can talk about empiricism here.

Don’t lecture me about empiricism when you’ve consciously allowed your observations to be influenced by your previous ideas about what the results should be.

I’ve disproven your poll using facts about statistical observation; if you need empirical facts to support my counterarguments, just follow Evil’s link. It’s really not that difficult.

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Actually I have never once said that the poll is flawless, quite the opposite, I don’t believe in value freedom, that’s all you.

But if you think you are fooling anyone by saying that Lyssa is flying to the top by a landslide in an optional poll by virtue of order bias, you are insulting the both of us.

That poll might be inaccurate to a degree. Without any evidence of your own, your claims are wildly more inaccurate, you just don’t like it, so kindly put them to rest where they belong.

Nor have I ever claimed that you’ve claimed that the poll is flawless.

Nor have I ever claimed that Lyssa is “flying to the top by a landslide” by “virtue of order bias”. I have, however, claimed that it has produced some degree of a bias that you cannot account for, and therefore the poll must be faulty. The degree to which it is faulty is debatable, but it clearly is, which is what matters.

Your definition of evidence seems to be purely empirical and opinion-based. That’s nice, but opinions are inherently biased and are therefore somewhat flawed. I base my evidence off of theoretical knowledge about the game, the basis of which I’ve justified many, many times.

Of course Lyss is OP really, and only a few classes have a use for it. Thievs are not the only ones, as others have said, any elite with a low cooldown will greatly benefit from the rune set. No two ways about it. Its a clear advantage that only two classes can use, the rest just see it for a side grade (or worse).

Arganthium.5638:

I’ve disproven your poll using facts about statistical observation; .

You literally have done the exact opposite, come in with 0 evidence and just bashed mine which is disproving you. But if you’re that deep into the well then just stay there.

A difference of over 50% caused by order bias in a totally optional poll? Get out of this thread and take that claim to be a theorycrafter out of your sig, this is embarrassing.

evilapprentice.6379:

Cute, putting Lyssa at the very top and Ogre/Scholar at the very bottom. At least you’re aware of how biases work. Why not alphabetically?

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/08/behavioral-bias

Gaming the results (consciously or unconsciously) won’t help your argument.

^ Agreed. I can’t see taking this poll seriously, especially since it’s bloated with rune sets that people will obviously never vote for (Rune of the Flock, lol).

DaliIndica.9041:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

azuzephyr.7280:

I’m waiting to see any from your side, coffee pot is on

All I can see atm is two frequenters of the thief forum trying desperately to rip up any shreds of evidence that might highlight a cheap OP mechanic that they are relying on

As I have said many times already, create a counter poll that is as value free as you desire, in fact you can leave out Lyssa as an option altogether and just wait for people to post asking where Lyssa is.

Because it’s not evidence.

You’ve clearly shown in this statement that you are biased against Lyssa Runes, and while that may not have been a problem in and of itself, the fact that you (sub?)consciously placed Lyssa at the top of your poll shows that you have allowed your biases to greatly influence the results of your poll. I’m not creating a poll simply because neither I nor Evil wants to create one; that’s completely irrelevant as to whether or not your poll is accurate.

I don’t have any doubt that many people think that Lyssa is OP (even though its only good abilities are its 4 and 6, and the elite that thieves have to use in order to make Lyssa worthwhile gives a relatively short stun for being an elite and is easily evaded), but your poll seems to only have the goal of showing that Lyssa is in fact OP in mind, and you’ve altered your poll so as to create a voter bias against it.

Your post is a pathetic excuse for what you seem to call “evidence”, and has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on reality.

Actually I have never once said that the poll is flawless, quite the opposite, I don’t believe in value freedom, that’s all you.

But if you think you are fooling anyone by saying that Lyssa is flying to the top by a landslide in an optional poll by virtue of order bias, you are insulting the both of us.

That poll might be inaccurate to a degree. Without any evidence of your own, your claims are wildly more inaccurate, you just don’t like it, so kindly put them to rest where they belong.

Nor have I ever claimed that you’ve claimed that the poll is flawless.

Nor have I ever claimed that Lyssa is “flying to the top by a landslide” by “virtue of order bias”. I have, however, claimed that it has produced some degree of a bias that you cannot account for, and therefore the poll must be faulty. The degree to which it is faulty is debatable, but it clearly is, which is what matters.

Your definition of evidence seems to be purely empirical and opinion-based. That’s nice, but opinions are inherently biased and are therefore somewhat flawed. I base my evidence off of theoretical knowledge about the game, the basis of which I’ve justified many, many times.

Of course Lyss is OP really, and only a few classes have a use for it. Thievs are not the only ones, as others have said, any elite with a low cooldown will greatly benefit from the rune set. No two ways about it. Its a clear advantage that only two classes can use, the rest just see it for a side grade (or worse).

Did you listen to a single thing I said about how terrible Basi Venom is? It’s the most godawful utility that you’ll actually see used in tPvP. It’s really only useful with Lyssa Runes anyways, which combined means that it’s a pretty good elite but requires you to completely sacrifice your rune set on top of your elite, and the rune set isn’t that good in and of itself anyways. RageSig is a completely different matter, but if that’s the elite you’re really concerned about, then perhaps the CD should be reduced on that; doesn’t mean Lyssa needs to be nerfed.

azuzephyr.7280:

Arganthium.5638:

I’ve disproven your poll using facts about statistical observation; .

You literally have done the exact opposite, come in with 0 evidence and just bashed mine which is disproving you. But if you’re that deep into the well then just stay there.

A difference of over 50% caused by order bias in a totally optional poll? Get out of this thread and take that claim to be a theorycrafter out of your sig, this is embarrassing.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/08/behavioral-bias

Did you even read this? You’re not disproving me of anything, because the only claim that I’ve really invested myself in is that your poll is clearly biased. All claims I’ve made about Lyssa being okay has been justified using theoretical evidence related to Basi Venom and the fact that only the 4 and 6 abilities on Lyssa are useful whatsoever.

Stop rattling off about “disproving” me, all you’ve done is said that your poll is unbiased and that apparently the percentage of people that disagree with me in your clearly biased poll disproves my point.

kitten. Picked lyssa then scrolled down and saw that ogre was there. Oops