PvP Vids Don't belong in Community Creations

PvP Vids Don't belong in Community Creations

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Posted by: EnderzShadow.2506

EnderzShadow.2506

Like the title says, I’m not a fan of ANET’s over zealous moderators moving Class Related Game Videos to this sub section.

Personally speaking, I main a ranger and if someone wants to put up a ranger vid, I like seeing the video in the RANGER forums. /Shocker, I know.

PvP gameplay videos and fan art don’t belong in the same forum.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

I agree. I would prefer those videos being in the class sections or in case it is pvp, raiding/dungeons or wvw, in those sections at least.
Surely this section is named community creations but i would never come here to look for thief videos for example as i know most threads here contain fanart, fan music etc. Videos on other hand are often educational and should be in appropriate sections.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Gaile Gray

Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Next

For every forum member who feels someone’s videos should be in a different place, someone else feels they should be here.

The fact is, the profession forums are for discussion, and this sub-forum is for sharing player creations. That is why the videos are moved here.

Take a situation where someone creates a video that features one of every profession. Should they post it on 9 sub-forums? I don’t think so. So this spot should be the “go-to” spot for videos — no matter the subject, no matter the profession, not matter whether they are guides, gameplay videos, or music videos with gameplay underlying them.

And quite frankly, I am not a fan of a forum member calling moderators"overzealous." They’re doing their job properly. So let’s understand that there’s a place for everything, and respect that everything should be in its place.

I’m open to discussing this, but ask that you consider all the alternatives. For instance, where does that cross-profession video go? Things like that need to be considered, so we don’t have a lot of cross-posting, because posting in a bunch of forums reduces the visibility of actual conversations. We also don’t want to have a flood of videos that push actual conversations off the forums. (Which is sort of why we have a fan art forum to begin with. No one loves fan art more than I do, but I know it’s best in its own place and not scattered across discussions.)

Maybe the answer is as simple as a sticky post in each profession forum, “Put your videos here!” I’m open to that as a “for instance” of how we can best handle this situation.

Looking forward to input on this, and thanks.

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

(edited by Gaile Gray.6029)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

To answer your question about multiple professions: leave it in section where it was posted (e.g. pvp or warrior forums for example). I don’t think anyone would post it in 9 different sections alone because reposts are not allowed.
I honestly never saw a video with all 9 professions and even if someone did make video with multiple professions it was usually related to one game mode, e.g. wvw.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Ravel.5701

Ravel.5701

New idea is brilliant tho, in my opinion, here is fine too. At the end of the day they are still fan creations, and them being informative does not really change that.

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Posted by: FrouFrou.4958

FrouFrou.4958

If it’s an artsy scenery video featuring a certain class by all means move it here, but if it has pvp/wvw/build/skill/rotation based information, leave it in the class forums as that’s the place where you go to look for that sort of thing. How many people seriously come here in this subforum specifically to watch that sort of videos (And not by an accident)? Pretty much the same logic applies as if you were trying to read news; you don’t open the sports section to read about tomorrow’s weather! Only reason why I’m even replying to this is because the post was in the dev tracker.

Froudactyl // Herp Derp Druid // Judge Legends [JDGE] // Seafarer’s Rest

(edited by FrouFrou.4958)

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Posted by: Helly.2597

Helly.2597

Personally I find that moving class specific videos to this subforum is a bad idea. You mention that class subforums are for discussion and this forum is for player creations, but one of the big reasons I make videos is to generate discussion. I have a target audience for my videos (currently necros) and the best place to reach that audience is through the subforum.

If I want feedback on my videos, I would prefer/require the ability to post my videos into the subforum that is most appropriate. Few players check this subforum for videos, let alone do many [insert class here] check this subforum for that specific class’ videos.

The argument of “what if someone makes a video with each of the classes” isn’t a good argument in my mind. You are taking a very specific example and attempting to use it as an argument for the majority of cases. If someone makes a video like that why not just deal with it on a case by case basis instead of applying a blanket ban/removal of class specific videos from their associated subforums.

Honestly the removal of videos from the subforums makes me not wish/have no desire to post my videos to the forums at all since there isn’t any real point if I can’t generate a discussion within the class I am playing.

People call me Hobo.
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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

This is just personal opinion, but if I have a specific class I’m learning to pilot, and would like to see skilled players show patterns and tricks I can pick up on, I go to that particular subforum.

The fact is, the profession forums are for discussion, and this sub-forum is for sharing player creations. That is why the videos are moved here.

I think videos can create very helpful discussion and the two elements are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

If what OP suggests invalidates the efforts of the moderators, sure that’s a sad thing, but you have to ask if the effort was made for the right choice in the first place.

I check into the forums every few days, and I go straight to the class forums to find videos and guides. Like Helly says here, having videos of a specific class in the right subforum will draw players playing the same class to the discussion – and it is from these suggestions that I find the best tips to improve my own gameplay.

The PvP section is mainly for drinking in the salt and delighting in the misery of others, but rarely – very rarely, there are nice sPvP footages. And sometimes, a high tier player will pop in (in the class or PvP subforums) and critique videos – and we are all the better for it.

I do not find it a thrilling prospect to sift through an overturned shopping cart in here to find a thread with a video, then check if it’s combat related, and if it’s a class I specifically want. After 5 years in this game, I finally stumbled onto this subforum, which says something about how indicative of its purpose (or not) it actually is.

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

(edited by Ralkuth.1456)

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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I’d like to continue the discussion, because I feel we can come up with a good solution to the question of video placement.

I think there’s a difference between “playing PvE with my Ranger” or “wandering across Tyria as a Necromancer” that would make them different than "a guide to playing [profession]. If the profession is only incidental, it seems best to include it here, in the Community Creations Sub-forum. But if the profession is the very core of the video — the foundation on a tutorial about a specific class — then it should be housed in that profession’s sub-forum.

I’m trying to find a way to guide the moderators, many of whom work hours outside my own, so I’m not on hand to take a quick review and confirm their decision. I am persuaded that, as you suggest, we should not have a policy that says “No videos in a profession sub-forum.” But what about the equivalent of a travelogue as opposed to a guide? Would a “leave ’em where the creator put ’em” policy address that?

What are your further thoughts on the difference between the two types of videos? The forums are here for you and we want to do what’s best for forum members, whether they are video creators or viewers.

Thoughts?

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

There can be art in anything we do, and if a community or a part of our community creates a video that is art, it deserves to be here.

You are welcome to dislike or like art, that is the freedom of it, but you may not judge what is and isnt beyond your own opinion. Branching out and recognizing other art forms is ingenious, I support it.

We should always keep an open mind.

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

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I just thought of what may be a happy solution: We could support the posting of the video in the profession section, if it related to playing the profession, but house a thread that links to various videos here on Community Creations.

Possibly best of both worlds… ?

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: TexZero.7910

TexZero.7910

I have to question why PvP is excluding from being a community creation.

The videos took the same time for the creator to make, publish, edit etc. that anyone who makes conventional art did. It may not be a facet that you the OP or others like, but it’s no less a part of the community that RP is (and at the end of the day that too is art).

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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

I just thought of what may be a happy solution: We could support the posting of the video in the profession section, if it related to playing the profession, but house a thread that links to various videos here on Community Creations.

Possibly best of both worlds… ?

English isn’t my first language, so I think what is said in the below paragraph is basically what you describe.

I think what could work is if any profession specific video is posted in the profession’s forum, a copy or “link thread” gets generated in Community Creations. CC can be treated like a twitter notification for these WvW/PvP videos, and people who are good at certain classes can give advice in the class specific forums, the “main” thread.

Because frankly, CC has a lot of types of content and generated at a fast enough rate that one specific thread will be easy to lose track of in there.

A recent gripe is that I found a Necro WvW gameplay video, with link to an even more insightful Necro vs Thief matchup discussion, in CC – but only because I found the link through google first. Without google, I would have no idea this thread existed, because it had been buried in CC 20 pages ago, while if it were in the Necromancer forum, I would have been willing to flip through a few pages to find something nice.

The author of the discussion even removed the Necro vs Thief video in the thread to prevent it from being moved to CC.

It’s fairly demotivating to make content with commentary and editing, put it up and get discussion going… then get it “deported” to CC where people with the potential to raise their gameplay simply can’t be asked to trow through CC to find a title that says “PvP” + “Druid” + “Commentary” etc. while buried beneath “WvW Thief roaming #956824” “my favourite cute little rat in Ascalon I kill for Life Force” “RL cooking using GW2 recipes!!” “GW1 story recap redux addendum postscript remarks” “nice waterfall screenshot I drew” “surreal Norn impressions”……


Here it’s just a request for class specific PvP videos, but I’ll also add that class specific WvW videos also share similar traits.

It’s 1-class focused, has content about intense player interaction, and generates very useful discussion, often on the level of tutorials – I would argue that while comprehensive basics class guides have their place, gameplay PvP/WvW videos are for those who have the basics down and are trying to branch out and improve their gameplay.

It would be very natural for a player, seeking advice on a certain class, to visit the class specific forum and post/look for gameplay videos, ask questions in them, discuss with better/different players. This is the most condensed and efficient way to handle class learning.

I’m not opposed to the idea of putting these content in Community Creations, if it brings the same convenience. Right now, it’s an unsorted mess, we don’t have mode specific tags, and it would be silly to implement an informal agreement on the format of thread titles just so we can sort created videos by mode and class…

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

(edited by Ralkuth.1456)

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Posted by: Helly.2597

Helly.2597

snip

Ralkuth echoes my thoughts as well. As a creator if post in the necro forums for example that is my target audience. I want players who play that class to see it and learn from it. I also want feedback from players who play that class. Community creations serves a purpose for content (much like what Gaile mentioned) where the class is not the center piece of the video. But if I’m roaming on necro that’s very different from roaming on thief and they should be in their class forums not grouped together here.

People call me Hobo.
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Posted by: FrouFrou.4958

FrouFrou.4958

Sorry for necroing this, but this topic did absolutely nothing and the issue is still there, footage from the weekend’s demo is being moved here where nobody sees it. Feedback on skills and traits do not belong here in this subforum, it belongs in the class specific subforum. I’m really puzzled by all this, doesn’t it just cause even more work for developers to go through yet another subforum when they are looking for feedback from the players, especially when all the important balance/feedback stuff is being buried under fanfics, drawings and recipes?

I don’t want to post any of my WvW videos anymore since they just get moved here where I am not getting any usefull feedback. If you want to support your creators, you got to stop this madness.

Froudactyl // Herp Derp Druid // Judge Legends [JDGE] // Seafarer’s Rest

(edited by FrouFrou.4958)

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Posted by: Roksiel.6123

Roksiel.6123

It’s also annoying for people who only check this subforum for the art. I don’t want art to be buried under a mountain of PvP and WvW videos which I never watch anyway.

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Posted by: Gaile Gray

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Gaile Gray

ArenaNet Communications Manager

Ok. I take on board that there’s “art” and there’s “info” and videos can fall into either category… and sometimes both.

Here’s a new idea:

What about a thread — as we have here for screenshots — that allows people to post links to and explanations of their videos in a separate thread in each subforum: profession, WvW, PvP, etc.? That would help keep videos visible (I’d sticky the thread) and organized in a single thread, rather than getting complaints that there are too many videos rather than discussions in those sub-forums, or too many action videos in the art sub-forum.

Thoughts?

Gaile Gray
Communications Manager
Guild & Fansite Relations; In-Game Events
ArenaNet

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

I think for profession specific info/gameplay videos that are posted in profession forums are perfectly fine in their own thread.

Other sections that are more generic like Generic pvp fractal wvw that could have a more wider variety of info videos should get a thread as there it could run crazy if not.

Art, Roleplay, and more comedy like videos could be posted here. Anything that is clearly made for entertainment instead of for information.

On the other hand, new releases, interviews and such videos that are clearly for sharing their info could have their own thread.

This also makes me wonder about why there is no PoF subforum yet, even if its really hard to make with this forum. As there are also many PoF related videos as well as those that dont, It would be messy to mix those into one thread.

Not to mention content creators that make multiple videos. One thread could get messy if not properly sorted.

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