“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
Risk vs. Reward
I didn’t play gw1. so I can’t comment much on that.
The thing about risk vs reward is I dotn’ think it work in this game, period. Because when you master the hard content and rerun it every day it become easy content and you risk nothing again.
What is a person who run speed run fotm 48 everyday have to risk? He do it everyday and easily with his premade group.
In other game, you are rewarded for taking risk because you are rewarded for taking on “new challenge” and the boss drop “unique loot better than before”. Typically you don’t have to rerun the dungeon too much because after you get the drop you want you don’t have to ever do it again.
In this game, there is always an incensive to redo the dungeon because there is an universal reward called gold.
Take me for example I do cof on different character every day. In reality if I just do speed run farm on my warrior I can make way more gold. But I enjoy playing alt so I play on my 8 alt everyday for cof.
Now from time to time, I mixed in doing different dungeon because it is “fun”. And the reality about those other dungeon is I risk more because it is harder and when group went bad, it takes very long to complete.
Do I think other dungeon should reward more for the risk? probably yes. But another thing come in mind is if it reward more, it just reward “premade” group and punishing people like me who enjoy doing pug.
And to clarify, I do think people should be reward for taking hard/risking content. They should be rewarded the first time. People should be rewarded for completing arah or fotm 50 the first time. But I don’t think they should be rewarded “so heavily” after thier 100th run.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
I think I’d prefer to downplay the current ‘Gold as endgame’ ideal by introducing other sources of obtaining Precursors, than try to pitt the ability of the developer to balance risk versus reward for all possible sources of gold in the game vs. the collective intelligence and laziness of the player-base.
What’s the status on that open world scavenger hunt?
Would be nice if all those CoF path 1 fanatics were out and about populating zones instead of warping the class balance for dungeonplay beyond all recognition.
I didn’t play gw1. so I can’t comment much on that.
The thing about risk vs reward is I dotn’ think it work in this game, period. Because when you master the hard content and rerun it every day it become easy content and you risk nothing again.
A. This is somewhat correct. In gw1 it actually added more depth to the game because people tried to figure out better and better ways to do that dungeon. And let me tell you, you always risk something when running pugs.
What is a person who run speed run fotm 48 everyday have to risk? He do it everyday and easily with his premade group.
In other game, you are rewarded for taking risk because you are rewarded for taking on “new challenge” and the boss drop “unique loot better than before”. Typically you don’t have to rerun the dungeon too much because after you get the drop you want you don’t have to ever do it again.
A. This is what made gw1 so great. The unique loot was TRADEABLE. This increased the longevity of every dungeon 1000 fold. I ran every dungeon in gw1 over 1000 times and some like the Underworld over 5000 times. Why you may ask? Well, because it was fun, challenging and extremely monetarily rewarding.
In this game, there is always an incensive to redo the dungeon because there is an universal reward called gold.
A. Gold was the universal reward in gw1 as well. People ran 90% of the dungeons because there was that chance of a unique reward at the end of the dungeon that was worth a TON of money. In gw2 it is hard to find people running anything but Cof p1 because its rewards are the greatest. You didnt have that in gw1 because all the dungeons had very similar rewards.
Take me for example I do cof on different character every day. In reality if I just do speed run farm on my warrior I can make way more gold. But I enjoy playing alt so I play on my 8 alt everyday for cof.
Now from time to time, I mixed in doing different dungeon because it is “fun”. And the reality about those other dungeon is I risk more because it is harder and when group went bad, it takes very long to complete.
Do I think other dungeon should reward more for the risk? probably yes. But another thing come in mind is if it reward more, it just reward “premade” group and punishing people like me who enjoy doing pug.
A. EVERY GAME PUNISHES PUGGING. It makes the player branch out and make friends. You cant have everything fed to you on a silver spoon. When did gamers become so self entitled to success?
And to clarify, I do think people should be reward for taking hard/risking content. They should be rewarded the first time. People should be rewarded for completing arah or fotm 50 the first time. But I don’t think they should be rewarded “so heavily” after thier 100th run.
A. If the rewards diminish, so does replay-ability. That is another major problem with this game. It has become so casual. Its like Anet totally forgot what made gw1 great.
“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
(edited by rjnemer.7816)
^ so basically you risk nothing too if you run the same dungeon 1000 times in a premade group. That’s my main grip.
Either way I dont’ care. I’m pretty easy going. If they change the system I just adapat and probably try to run premade too and never pug again.
I think I’d prefer to downplay the current ‘Gold as endgame’ ideal by introducing other sources of obtaining Precursors, than try to pitt the ability of the developer to balance risk versus reward for all possible sources of gold in the game vs. the collective intelligence and laziness of the player-base.
What’s the status on that open world scavenger hunt?
Would be nice if all those CoF path 1 fanatics were out and about populating zones instead of warping the class balance for dungeonplay beyond all recognition.
The scavenger hunt will only fix a very minor problem with the game. Once everyone gets there precursor the game will go back to how it is now. Small updates with very little replay-ability, all based around rng chests that you buy out of the gem store.
“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
You’re talking about something different there, I think.
I’m talking about making a gold-based goal attainable by gold-less methods so imbalances between incurring risk and obtaining gold can still exist but are less important to one of the endgame experiences. You’re talking about lacking an endgame goal entirely.
(edited by Vox Hollow.2736)
^ so basically you risk nothing too if you run the same dungeon 1000 times in a premade group. That’s my main grip.
Either way I dont’ care. I’m pretty easy going. If they change the system I just adapat and probably try to run premade too and never pug again.
Eventually you risk ALMOST nothing. It took over 2 months for me to learn how to play just 1 role in the DoA. You had to pug day after day, failing almost every time to finally be good enough to get into a guild that had premade groups. And that was for only 1 dungeon!
When he talks about how hard DoA and UW was he isnt kidding. It had a very steep learning curve. It took a lot of capitol, time and skill to finally start to reap the rewards of the dungeons.
“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
You’re talking about something different there, I think.
I’m talking about making a gold-based goal attainable by gold-less methods so imbalances between incurring risk and obtaining gold can still exist but are less important to one of the endgame experiences. You’re talking about lacking an endgame goal entirely.
IMO legendaries should be 80% challenge based and 20% gold based. Right now its 90% gold, 10% challenge, but thats a whole different beast. Lets stick to the topic of more risk vs reward options instead of mindless cof and orr farming.
“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
I prefer to determine reward by time.
Time spent vs Reward obtained.
Sure, premade FoTM 48s loses its ‘challenge’ after you run it a few times, but it is still a good chunk of your time. 1 Hour minimum time investment, longer depends on what fractals you get…If it’s not premade (PUG), it can even fail after investing a significant of time.
Most FoTM48 runs i get a total gold value of 1gold ~ 1.5g after I sell to npc and salvage rares. If I get dredge or ascalon I can get more loot but those are some of the longer fractals too which adds time to the run. I’d have to hope for Charged Core or Lodestone drops to up my gold. From Fractal lvl 1 to 48 I think ive gotten 11 charged cores and 9 onyx. Exotic armors are account bound, collect 4 and put them in mystic forge for a chance of getting 2g~5g.
In 60mins you can speed run 3 paths of any dungeon besides Arah. That is a minimum 2G before considering any loot or tokens. CoF P1 is ridiculous dont even want to get started on that.
Fractals bosses need to start dropping generous chunks of silver like regular dungeon bosses…Otherwise you are only doing fractal 48s for that tiny chance of getting your desired fractal skin…and once you get it, you are done.
^ so basically you risk nothing too if you run the same dungeon 1000 times in a premade group. That’s my main grip.
Either way I dont’ care. I’m pretty easy going. If they change the system I just adapat and probably try to run premade too and never pug again.
Eventually you risk ALMOST nothing. It took over 2 months for me to learn how to play just 1 role in the DoA. You had to pug day after day, failing almost every time to finally be good enough to get into a guild that had premade groups. And that was for only 1 dungeon!
When he talks about how hard DoA and UW was he isnt kidding. It had a very steep learning curve. It took a lot of capitol, time and skill to finally start to reap the rewards of the dungeons.
That is the same thing as raiding in every game right? But do you see people raid the same dungeon every day for years? no They learn it, do it a few times more and get everyone geared and move to the next raid. They dont’ reward you “anything” after you did it 100+ time.
I’m not saying you are wrong. Since this game does revolve around an university currency gold, so that’s probably hard to change. But I like more of when reward base on achievement. Kind of like the event this month, player are reward for cool looking tentacle backpiece when they acomplish something.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
http://www.twitch.tv/mmorpgcom/b/404396361
6:45
This game is going to smash Gw2. Especially if they stay true to thier word.
“If you want to get rid of “zerk” you have to make content
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."
hard enough to make them cry, not just rivers but oceans."