Guild Wars 2

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this topic – thieves telling others to L2P because there’s a lot of players that cannot combat a broken mechanic (stealth) buffed by a broken game engine aspect (culling).

Not in this topic – 90% of thieves admitting to the fact stealth is a broken mechanic, people NOT comparing sPvP to WvWvW (which really needs to stop, sPvP has way less people in it), and people saying guardian/ranger/necro is OP.

Did I miss anything?

Mesmers and Elementalists are also OP.

Other than that, you’ve pretty much covered it.

its been a ridiculous almost 3 months since the thief thread (which followed long weeks/months of massive QQ on the forum) and nothing has been done at all.. whats the problem anet?

Anet loves thieves. You didn’t realize that already?

Skribulous.3521:

Magiofdeath.2745:

In this topic – thieves telling others to L2P because there’s a lot of players that cannot combat a broken mechanic (stealth) buffed by a broken game engine aspect (culling).

Not in this topic – 90% of thieves admitting to the fact stealth is a broken mechanic, people NOT comparing sPvP to WvWvW (which really needs to stop, sPvP has way less people in it), and people saying guardian/ranger/necro is OP.

Did I miss anything?

Mesmers and Elementalists are also OP.

Other than that, you’ve pretty much covered it.

That’s why the mesmers and elementalists were in the “not in this topic” section. ;P While not as stupid OP as thieves, they are still pretty powerful, but its a powerful I can accept because I can see them 100% of the time for the most part and they actually have to spec their traits and wear the right armor to be resilient. Thieves get a free ‘resilience’ card, its called near-perma stealth, which is why they can get away with wearing glass cannon sets (I know third time I’m saying that, but really trying to drive that point, which most people fail to realize).

You will never see someone say to a thief “wear PVT” to 1v1 another class. But for all other classes vs thief, there’s been plenty of “wear PVT” in this thread alone. Unbalanced much?

I am a thief and I agree that backstab thieves are overpowered. I have not seen this first hand because I use a dagger/dagger condition damage build but I have been killed instantaneously by a thief with a backstab build.

Was in W3 today and stood on a tower watching 10 of my fellow server players try to take down a single stealth bs thief… They were using AoE, flailing around and even running around in circles ‘like headless chickens’.
Kudos to the Thief, he knew his class and was wiping the floor with my fellow players who couldn’t target him to hit him.
Shame, as those 10 players could have been useful in taking camps/towers but I guess dying to a Thief was more important.

Budchgon.2108:

Was in W3 today and stood on a tower watching 10 of my fellow server players try to take down a single stealth bs thief… They were using AoE, flailing around and even running around in circles ‘like headless chickens’.
Kudos to the Thief, he knew his class and was wiping the floor with my fellow players who couldn’t target him to hit him.
Shame, as those 10 players could have been useful in taking camps/towers but I guess dying to a Thief was more important.

This happens all the time, and it’s horribly broken. It’s astounding that some people think that this is just fine.

I have a thief and it is my most used class. I’ve always been a fan of stealthy classes, but the cloak and dagger backstab (then heartseeker spam) is just boring to play. So I changed from that and switched to a bleeder and I’m having much more fun with it. The fights can go either way for the most part (although these glass cannon thieves dont have a chance =P).

If you want to beat a thief all you need to do is try survive the initial burst, some classes have ways to deal with this. A glass cannon thief will usualy open up with basilisk venom to freeze you in place, use a stun breaker and dodge roll away so he/she cant get the cloak and dagger off again (making them waste 6 initiative as you dodge the attack).

Their main weakness is conditions! Some may take the trait to slowly remove conditions while in stealth, but these tend to have to sacrifice damage for that, so you should survive better anyway.

Another good tip is to prevent their shadow refuge, sure its nice to AoE their stealth field but it doenst always help. Use AoE knock backs, those mesmer walls are annoying as hell to me, or guardian bubble shields. Even use something like fear to make the thief run out of the field. Some ranger pets have this, warriors and necros have something like this too.

There is some an exploit you can use against stealthers too, its a pain in the kitten when it happens to me =P Channeled abilities still hit a thief if you start it as they stealth. An example of this is the rangers rapid shot, each arrow still goes to the stealthed thief, just turn your character to follow where the shot goes to keep them on track.

Thieves do need a nerf though, these tips many do already and are nothing new. But since I play a thief I have faught against countless people who don’t do these and die only to come here and moan. I think the stealth debuff shoud last for 5 seconds and increase the initiative useage of heartseeker from 3 to 5 or something.

Columba.9730:

Budchgon.2108:

Was in W3 today and stood on a tower watching 10 of my fellow server players try to take down a single stealth bs thief… They were using AoE, flailing around and even running around in circles ‘like headless chickens’.
Kudos to the Thief, he knew his class and was wiping the floor with my fellow players who couldn’t target him to hit him.
Shame, as those 10 players could have been useful in taking camps/towers but I guess dying to a Thief was more important.

This happens all the time, and it’s horribly broken. It’s astounding that some people think that this is just fine.

Idk. I tend to think it is fine, but that is probably because (1) I recently got a thief to 80 so I understand the class pretty well, and (2) my main, a necro, has 2 builds that shut this silliness down – a fear build, and a spectral build. With the fear build I wait for them to pop out, stack some conditions, lay marks when they stealth, fear them out of Shadow Refuge and they go down. With the spectral build I can pull them to me, immobilize, and have plenty of chill, weakness, and vulnerability to apply lots of pressure. They go down somewhat quickly or run away.

It’s fun to time how long a group of my server mates fights a stealthing thief. Then I go in and mop it up in 30 seconds.

I think it’s fine because I planned for this scenario and incorporated tools into my builds to deal with it. I’m sorry that signet greatsword warriors, greatsword guardians, greatsword mesmers (pattern?), longbow rangers, and a host of other popular builds can’t catch thieves. Instead of coming here and trying to change the rules of the game, I suggest you delve even deeper into the game to find the tools given to your profession to stop the permastealthing.

Columba.9730:

Budchgon.2108:

Was in W3 today and stood on a tower watching 10 of my fellow server players try to take down a single stealth bs thief… They were using AoE, flailing around and even running around in circles ‘like headless chickens’.
Kudos to the Thief, he knew his class and was wiping the floor with my fellow players who couldn’t target him to hit him.
Shame, as those 10 players could have been useful in taking camps/towers but I guess dying to a Thief was more important.

This happens all the time, and it’s horribly broken. It’s astounding that some people think that this is just fine.

Sarcasm detection fail -_-

lol it’s funny topic Thief are Op :O

what about War ? Ele ? mesmer ?

Oh i forgot War dmg dps !! revive ! i mean instant revive isnt op ? mesmer shadow dmg isnt op ? mesmer invis isnt op ? Ele Aoe and lots of fun isnt op !!

Drop drama here thiefs are not op … … U have to see War ele mesmer then ..

1v1 u couldnt kill a thief so u are mand end of story :P u died because u are not skills player to manage ur cd etc

Everyone is OP.

saw a d/d ele ran headless into middle of 20-25 men zerg, then ran across the map with this entire zerg on his tail, till he pulled away far enough to port out. so OP!

then i saw another ele got 1 shot by a warrior with a rifle…. Wars are more OP

You’d think that till you see FoO’s mesmer zerg crushes hammer trains, mesmers definitely more OP than wars and guardians.

then, then…. ever seen how pathetic mesmer vs traps went? So in the end trap rangers are the top dogs aye?

True stories…

Brassnautilus.2941 , I’m agree Ele are getting the most rewards in wvw loot etc beacuse of high aoe ! they can do that really easy ran headless into middle of 20/25 men zerg … Op !

War 1 shot … Op !

Mesmer shadow dmg op then they made a topic about thiefs … …

Zephyrus.9680:

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

Um… You mean like watch any video of any class where they kill a thief? Lol.

Rather than asking for somthing so mundane, just go to WvW and watch any tanky guardian built for small teams who knows what he or she is doing. Or doesn’t… They will win just about 100% of the time even just because retaliation and heals. With equal or even lesser skill, D/D eles will win most of their engagements. So will 1v1 mes if they survive the initial burst (illusions/clones are unaffected by culling), and tanky warriors with the right weapon sets. I don’t know ranger or engineer, those seem weaker vs thieves.

Maybe what you’re seeing most is that thieves always have a 1v1 build because that’s their entire skill set for every weapon (except shortbow I guess). While other classes are generally specced for larger fights which inherently gives them a disadvantage against roaming setups.

What no link… thought as much.

Majik.8521:

Jerks.3172:

So, Columba still waiting on your response where is the video that shows constant damage without dropping stealth.
You say.

i have to agree that a thief can not do constant damage while in stealth. I have been hit by thieves up to 4 times while i could not see them. I look at the combat log and it will say “xxxx damage from unknowns”.

however this is not an intended thief mechanic and more than likely one of two things.

1. culling from being in a large scale fight.
2. the clipping bug caused from a hasted back stab combo.here is a link to a post that shows the haste clipping bug.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thief-burst-new-combo/first

I have no problems with these two as hopefully they will get fixed.

what i do hate though is that when i get jumped by a thief (its usually a d/p and S/D) is that when i get him/her down to half life then they can just C&D repeatedly as long as they time it right and never get the reveal debuff. there isn’t anything i can do about it as he/she can C&D off of my pet, guards, mobs, critters, doors, siege, walls and probably some blade of grass (will have to test the last one) i believe that as long as the thief is in combat they should receive the revealed debuff every time they exit stealth not only when they damage from stealth.

i believe this small change would help balance the stealth mechanic without destroying the thief game play.

It’s pretty funny how columba is avoid me in conversation because he know he is wrong.
Getting hit by unknown is usually culling.I agree with you with that revealed the only sensible one i really heard so far. Like what is giving 30-50% speed reduction and take more damage when stealth would just kill the thief class.

Ruggan.4102:

vespers.1759:

i think it’s unfair that my rapid fire can do 7k in 10 hits but a thief can do 7k+ in 1 hit. i got hit for a 5k steal today. come on. anyone can dodge my rapid fire, no one can dodge a steal from invis.

i don’t mind high dmg, but when you can hit 1 button and do it, or hit the same button and do it multiple times it jsut gets old very fast. also stealth stomp… come on.

i watched a thief dance around 10 people today downing and stomping from stealth. then he ran away.

90% of solo players i see in wvwvw are thieves. at this point i just run away when i see a thief, because i don’t stand a chance. it isn’t a L2P issue. i can handle other classes minus eles and some mesmers alright, but thieves are just something else.

So umm let me get this straight… you are complaining about thieves because you cant take them but other classes that you admit you cant take them are ok? Sounds like a bias to me

no i wasn’t very clear. what i was saying was the only classes that give me any trouble are D/D eles and some mesmers. at least i can hit them though.

i get roflstomped by most thieves without landing a hit. a glass canon thief doesn’t dance around 10 players at once by taking lots of hits.

Here’s another protip for those fighting thieves:

Keep moving. It’s kinda difficult for a thief to land a backstab on a guy who keeps moving and keeps rotating and looking around. Heartseeker on high health targets will waste initiative and not really do much for said thief.

Also basilisk venom is an ELITE and can be stunbroken. Bring a stunbreaker. If you don’t, you’re just asking for death against people who can CC.

I play a guardian who runs at 16.5k Hp with 3000 armor (screenshot shows 17.6k cause of our wvw buffs), which in terms of durability is pretty bad. 15k HP, if you know, is the base HP of mesmers/engis/rangers.

These are general tips, and I think heartseeker shouldn’t be spammed as much (damage reduction for high health targets, maybe increase for lower health, switch places with death blossom maybe) and culling needs to be fixed, but otherwise they’re not THAT OP. 1 thief taking out multiple people is very much an anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and this I found hilarious. C&D doing over 3x times the damage of backstab.

(in case you were wondering I killed the lv 80 thief that did this to me by myself)

if he hits you in the front and doesent get the high damage backstab it still says backstab in the combat log

I think that screenshot sums up a lot that is wrong with the game though. That damage seems reasonable against a tanky guardian but one shots anything with the slightest hint of glass.

The thief pays a big price to go full glass and its frustrating to unload and see a guardian at 1/3 health who heals to full and could easily mop the floor with him from there.

p/d or d/d backstab, hundred blades, kill shot, mind wrack, 100nades (granted the difficulty) all are over the top but at the same time so is the guardian/ele bunker crap.

Theres no balance here. Its a game of extremes.

I’ll say it once here like I’ve said it many times elsewhere:

a) most people that complain about thieves should just roll a thief to learn the combat mechanics, which are different from every other class in the game and a hidden source of much of the confusion.

b) that gimmicky thief that just rolled you is just that: a gimmicky gank specialist. I don’t know of any legit WvW thief that sits there and rolls players back-to-back-to-back, laughing, in such a way that actually benefits the group/zerg/server he/she is on. Most of those players are there just to kill you and give you grief, which sucks, because they’re better off going to PvP instead of wasting our time and urging the likes of many of you out there to call for more thief nerfs.

I want to thank this guy and the many others that understand that it’s really not that hard:

Here’s another protip for those fighting thieves:

Keep moving. It’s kinda difficult for a thief to land a backstab on a guy who keeps moving and keeps rotating and looking around. Heartseeker on high health targets will waste initiative and not really do much for said thief.

Also basilisk venom is an ELITE and can be stunbroken. Bring a stunbreaker. If you don’t, you’re just asking for death against people who can CC.

I play a guardian who runs at 16.5k Hp with 3000 armor (screenshot shows 17.6k cause of our wvw buffs), which in terms of durability is pretty bad. 15k HP, if you know, is the base HP of mesmers/engis/rangers.

These are general tips, and I think heartseeker shouldn’t be spammed as much (damage reduction for high health targets, maybe increase for lower health, switch places with death blossom maybe) and culling needs to be fixed, but otherwise they’re not THAT OP. 1 thief taking out multiple people is very much an anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and this I found hilarious. C&D doing over 3x times the damage of backstab.

(in case you were wondering I killed the lv 80 thief that did this to me by myself)

More suggestions besides just moving… which is a great suggestion itself: stop being alone (when with guildies and we see a thief with signets approach, I just say stack up. That thief runs away. Know that no true ganker will come after a group of people like that and get away with it cleanly.), learn distances and dodge when they Steal/shadowstep to you, blind (oh kitten, that stops C&D?!), um… AOE!, etc. Because honestly—and I mean that in as literal of a sense as I can, because this isn’t a lie—I’ve been facerolled ONCE in the past two months by a Thief. Once. That’s because I wasn’t paying attention. It’s really not that hard once you learn to stop complaining.

Sooner or later they’re going to break the class thanks to you guys, even though ANet has said more or less that that’s how the class is designed.

Have fun flaming the Thief that doesn’t play the backstabby gimmicky build but knows that your complaints will inevitably break us legitimate players for good!

Acelerion.6820:

if he hits you in the front and doesent get the high damage backstab it still says backstab in the combat log

I know. She got a frontal backstab (that most likely didn’t even crit).

This screenshot was taken about 40 seconds after the battle. You can see my f2 still on cooldown from when I used it.

I made a lot of mistakes in this battle. My passive aegis blocked her steal but then I got hit with a couple of autoattacks and C&D AND a backstab (although she landed a frontal backstab). As you can see I didn’t pop f3 (aegis) like I should have to block the C&D, in fact I was so slow she got those autoattacks on me at first.

Hammer 5 hammer 4 hammer 2 greastword 3 greatsword 2. You know I actually miss two of these hits, namely hammer 4 and greatsword 3. Hammer 4 takes a long time to channel as well so that was a big mistake on my part. A few seconds later, she gets ANOTHER C&D off me (it hits for 3k) but I hit her with hammer 2 for 4k and she goes down.

I’m definitely not glass but I’m definitely not bunker either. I’m pretty balanced all things considered for a guardian, and moreover you can see two consecrations on my utility bar. (Neither was used. SYG was used tho, for the retal on her autoattacks). Oh and I never even dodged.

In other words AOE rules, keep turning to avoid backstabs in the back, and CC the thief. They’re definitely beatable 1v1 (in fact I’ve never lost 1v1’s vs glass d/d thieves, although i’ve never killed a bunker and condition thieves have ruined my day before). They’re not in need of a major nerf, but I do agree with minor adjustments (nerfs) on the D/D build.

indeed, thieves rule w3 for sure, I too want my class hit 10k before the enemies know I exist :P

tiboi.3108:

indeed, thieves rule w3 for sure, I too want my class hit 10k before the enemies know I exist :P

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unload

“Number of attacks: 8”

I see 6 unloads that he got off on you, meaning he was culled for a little over a second

anyways yeah, the problem isn’t really the thief, rather it’s culling. He should be revealed on the first attack (but he’s not)

One profession to rule them all, one button to find them (spam 2),
One low level to bring them all and in the stealth bind them.

@Sopp

That just made my day ty

SoPP.7034:

One profession to rule them all, one button to find them (spam 2),
One low level to bring them all and in the stealth bind them.

bahahaha

SoPP.7034:

One profession to rule them all, one button to find them (spam 2),
One low level to bring them all and in the stealth bind them.

I love you <3

Mehrdad.9074:

lol it’s funny topic Thief are Op :O

what about War ? Ele ? mesmer ?

Oh i forgot War dmg dps !! revive ! i mean instant revive isnt op ? mesmer shadow dmg isnt op ? mesmer invis isnt op ? Ele Aoe and lots of fun isnt op !!

Drop drama here thiefs are not op … … U have to see War ele mesmer then ..

1v1 u couldnt kill a thief so u are mand end of story :P u died because u are not skills player to manage ur cd etc

I can see them and anticipate.

tiboi.3108:

indeed, thieves rule w3 for sure, I too want my class hit 10k before the enemies know I exist :P

Wait, I thought they couldn’t keep attacking while stealthed? Lol

okay everyone. this may shock you, but you have to see it. it’s no wonder we can’t get a thief nerf.

LOOK!

Columba.9730:

Wait, I thought they couldn’t keep attacking while stealthed? Lol

They can’t. Is the argument that culling then is the issue? Because they aren’t still stealthed once that first attack from stealth lands. They just haven’t been culled. End of story.

Therefore Thieves aren’t OP. Culling is.

Just another one of those old hat threads started by inexperienced WvWers.

yet they can’t be targeted while stealthed and they can use it to remain stealthed without being hit.

move along, nothing to see here – working as intended.

thieves are supposed to solo cap keeps, towers.

Thobek.1730:

move along, nothing to see here – working as intended.

thieves are supposed to solo cap keeps, towers.

yep. I guess so. This is ruining ANet’s reputation, sadly. they won’t take action to balance their own game. Many people have commented that this game has the most imbalanced stealth they’ve ever seen in a pvp game. it’s too bad. it was a good game otherwise.

Thobek.1730:

move along, nothing to see here – working as intended.

thieves are supposed to solo cap keeps, towers.

When this happens the people respond to the videos as follows:
Who were the clowns that were supposed to sweep?

This is basic WvW stuff. Sure, Stealth is a pain in the kitten But it’s not gamebreaking and it isn’t impossible to counter. This stuff happens and people blame Thieves when they should be blaming themselves or the ones that literally miss the Thieves stealthing up.

(The video with the Thief using the wall as a target to permastealth with is bogus, however. That’s either a bug or something they missed entirely. We should in no way be able to do that. Ever. Because what happens is that we should normally get the revealed debuff, but because we don’t do damage to the wall itself it somehow doesn’t count.)

Fizzlepip.5218:

I’ll say it once here like I’ve said it many times elsewhere:

a) most people that complain about thieves should just roll a thief to learn the combat mechanics, which are different from every other class in the game and a hidden source of much of the confusion.

b) that gimmicky thief that just rolled you is just that: a gimmicky gank specialist. I don’t know of any legit WvW thief that sits there and rolls players back-to-back-to-back, laughing, in such a way that actually benefits the group/zerg/server he/she is on. Most of those players are there just to kill you and give you grief, which sucks, because they’re better off going to PvP instead of wasting our time and urging the likes of many of you out there to call for more thief nerfs.

I want to thank this guy and the many others that understand that it’s really not that hard:

Here’s another protip for those fighting thieves:

Keep moving. It’s kinda difficult for a thief to land a backstab on a guy who keeps moving and keeps rotating and looking around. Heartseeker on high health targets will waste initiative and not really do much for said thief.

Also basilisk venom is an ELITE and can be stunbroken. Bring a stunbreaker. If you don’t, you’re just asking for death against people who can CC.

I play a guardian who runs at 16.5k Hp with 3000 armor (screenshot shows 17.6k cause of our wvw buffs), which in terms of durability is pretty bad. 15k HP, if you know, is the base HP of mesmers/engis/rangers.

These are general tips, and I think heartseeker shouldn’t be spammed as much (damage reduction for high health targets, maybe increase for lower health, switch places with death blossom maybe) and culling needs to be fixed, but otherwise they’re not THAT OP. 1 thief taking out multiple people is very much an anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and this I found hilarious. C&D doing over 3x times the damage of backstab.

(in case you were wondering I killed the lv 80 thief that did this to me by myself)

More suggestions besides just moving… which is a great suggestion itself: stop being alone (when with guildies and we see a thief with signets approach, I just say stack up. That thief runs away. Know that no true ganker will come after a group of people like that and get away with it cleanly.), learn distances and dodge when they Steal/shadowstep to you, blind (oh kitten, that stops C&D?!), um… AOE!, etc. Because honestly—and I mean that in as literal of a sense as I can, because this isn’t a lie—I’ve been facerolled ONCE in the past two months by a Thief. Once. That’s because I wasn’t paying attention. It’s really not that hard once you learn to stop complaining.

Sooner or later they’re going to break the class thanks to you guys, even though ANet has said more or less that that’s how the class is designed.

Have fun flaming the Thief that doesn’t play the backstabby gimmicky build but knows that your complaints will inevitably break us legitimate players for good!

So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?

Columba.9730:

So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?

It doesn’t. It’s just a quick fix for those that don’t know how.

Is it balanced if it takes a group to kill a bunker built profession? (Holy cow, yes it is! Same principle.)

Tonight a gank Thief tried to kill me… again. I waited for the move I knew she was going to make and simply blinded and dodged as she came in for the Steal. She failed and ran away. I went back to business and /laughed.

And here’s the really, really funny thing:
Even if she had succeeded she would have left me dead and still run away, thereby achieving nothing. But of course the class is OP (never you mind the class that can AoE Quickness or Portal a zerg).

Columba.9730:

Fizzlepip.5218:

I’ll say it once here like I’ve said it many times elsewhere:

a) most people that complain about thieves should just roll a thief to learn the combat mechanics, which are different from every other class in the game and a hidden source of much of the confusion.

b) that gimmicky thief that just rolled you is just that: a gimmicky gank specialist. I don’t know of any legit WvW thief that sits there and rolls players back-to-back-to-back, laughing, in such a way that actually benefits the group/zerg/server he/she is on. Most of those players are there just to kill you and give you grief, which sucks, because they’re better off going to PvP instead of wasting our time and urging the likes of many of you out there to call for more thief nerfs.

I want to thank this guy and the many others that understand that it’s really not that hard:

Here’s another protip for those fighting thieves:

Keep moving. It’s kinda difficult for a thief to land a backstab on a guy who keeps moving and keeps rotating and looking around. Heartseeker on high health targets will waste initiative and not really do much for said thief.

Also basilisk venom is an ELITE and can be stunbroken. Bring a stunbreaker. If you don’t, you’re just asking for death against people who can CC.

I play a guardian who runs at 16.5k Hp with 3000 armor (screenshot shows 17.6k cause of our wvw buffs), which in terms of durability is pretty bad. 15k HP, if you know, is the base HP of mesmers/engis/rangers.

These are general tips, and I think heartseeker shouldn’t be spammed as much (damage reduction for high health targets, maybe increase for lower health, switch places with death blossom maybe) and culling needs to be fixed, but otherwise they’re not THAT OP. 1 thief taking out multiple people is very much an anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and this I found hilarious. C&D doing over 3x times the damage of backstab.

(in case you were wondering I killed the lv 80 thief that did this to me by myself)

More suggestions besides just moving… which is a great suggestion itself: stop being alone (when with guildies and we see a thief with signets approach, I just say stack up. That thief runs away. Know that no true ganker will come after a group of people like that and get away with it cleanly.), learn distances and dodge when they Steal/shadowstep to you, blind (oh kitten, that stops C&D?!), um… AOE!, etc. Because honestly—and I mean that in as literal of a sense as I can, because this isn’t a lie—I’ve been facerolled ONCE in the past two months by a Thief. Once. That’s because I wasn’t paying attention. It’s really not that hard once you learn to stop complaining.

Sooner or later they’re going to break the class thanks to you guys, even though ANet has said more or less that that’s how the class is designed.

Have fun flaming the Thief that doesn’t play the backstabby gimmicky build but knows that your complaints will inevitably break us legitimate players for good!

So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?

Well Duh of course it’s balanced. Didn’t you know that thieves are just the most skilled players in the history of MMO’s and every one else needs to learn to play the game. How ignorant of you to think anything less than a zerg could ever kill these oh so skilled thieves. To be honest, thieves actually need a buff to their DPS because that can’t really 1 shot all classes from stealth and actually have to press more than 1 button…

Oh BTW i hope you caught the sarcasm.

Columba.9730:

Fizzlepip.5218:

I’ll say it once here like I’ve said it many times elsewhere:

a) most people that complain about thieves should just roll a thief to learn the combat mechanics, which are different from every other class in the game and a hidden source of much of the confusion.

b) that gimmicky thief that just rolled you is just that: a gimmicky gank specialist. I don’t know of any legit WvW thief that sits there and rolls players back-to-back-to-back, laughing, in such a way that actually benefits the group/zerg/server he/she is on. Most of those players are there just to kill you and give you grief, which sucks, because they’re better off going to PvP instead of wasting our time and urging the likes of many of you out there to call for more thief nerfs.

I want to thank this guy and the many others that understand that it’s really not that hard:

Here’s another protip for those fighting thieves:

Keep moving. It’s kinda difficult for a thief to land a backstab on a guy who keeps moving and keeps rotating and looking around. Heartseeker on high health targets will waste initiative and not really do much for said thief.

Also basilisk venom is an ELITE and can be stunbroken. Bring a stunbreaker. If you don’t, you’re just asking for death against people who can CC.

I play a guardian who runs at 16.5k Hp with 3000 armor (screenshot shows 17.6k cause of our wvw buffs), which in terms of durability is pretty bad. 15k HP, if you know, is the base HP of mesmers/engis/rangers.

These are general tips, and I think heartseeker shouldn’t be spammed as much (damage reduction for high health targets, maybe increase for lower health, switch places with death blossom maybe) and culling needs to be fixed, but otherwise they’re not THAT OP. 1 thief taking out multiple people is very much an anomaly and not the norm.

Oh, and this I found hilarious. C&D doing over 3x times the damage of backstab.

(in case you were wondering I killed the lv 80 thief that did this to me by myself)

More suggestions besides just moving… which is a great suggestion itself: stop being alone (when with guildies and we see a thief with signets approach, I just say stack up. That thief runs away. Know that no true ganker will come after a group of people like that and get away with it cleanly.), learn distances and dodge when they Steal/shadowstep to you, blind (oh kitten, that stops C&D?!), um… AOE!, etc. Because honestly—and I mean that in as literal of a sense as I can, because this isn’t a lie—I’ve been facerolled ONCE in the past two months by a Thief. Once. That’s because I wasn’t paying attention. It’s really not that hard once you learn to stop complaining.

Sooner or later they’re going to break the class thanks to you guys, even though ANet has said more or less that that’s how the class is designed.

Have fun flaming the Thief that doesn’t play the backstabby gimmicky build but knows that your complaints will inevitably break us legitimate players for good!

So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?

If you need a group to defend against any class 1 v 1.
Im sorry to tell you.
It isnt the class thats the problem.

Secondly, if your having problems with culling.
you need to upgrade your hardware.
With the recent change, culling got better for some and significantly worse for others.
That tells us that it may then be a hardware problem where people are using the lowest spec computers available.

If you are using the lowest grade of equipment, you may also want to come to terms that culling will possible never get better for you.

Gtx 670 ftw 2 gig video card, 16 g ram, solid state hd, quad i5 processor. Not my system, I assure you. Can’t get better than this sorry.

Who said needed a group against ANY class. Only thieves, as the poster stated.

Fizzlepip.5218:

Columba.9730:

So it’s balanced to require a group to defend against one thief?

It doesn’t. It’s just a quick fix for those that don’t know how.

Is it balanced if it takes a group to kill a bunker built profession? (Holy cow, yes it is! Same principle.)

Tonight a gank Thief tried to kill me… again. I waited for the move I knew she was going to make and simply blinded and dodged as she came in for the Steal. She failed and ran away. I went back to business and /laughed.

And here’s the really, really funny thing:
Even if she had succeeded she would have left me dead and still run away, thereby achieving nothing. But of course the class is OP (never you mind the class that can AoE Quickness or Portal a zerg).

The thief probably couldn’t see you because you were perma stealthed.

Columba.9730:

The thief probably couldn’t see you because you were perma stealthed.

I shoot unicorns, it’s impossible to lose me.

Also, merely attacking me disproves your snide comment. I welcome you to try again.

Zephyrus.9680:

Shadowkx.2738:

@ all the i handle thieves just fine posts…
Post the vids. That is all. No more l2p, no more spvp, post the vids of you in WvW handling a decent lvl 80 thief, and no vids of you playing a thief to counter a thief.

I can post links to plenty of vids of thieves handling groups so i just want to see your proof.

Um… You mean like watch any video of any class where they kill a thief? Lol.

Rather than asking for somthing so mundane, just go to WvW and watch any tanky guardian built for small teams who knows what he or she is doing. Or doesn’t… They will win just about 100% of the time even just because retaliation and heals. With equal or even lesser skill, D/D eles will win most of their engagements. So will 1v1 mes if they survive the initial burst (illusions/clones are unaffected by culling), and tanky warriors with the right weapon sets. I don’t know ranger or engineer, those seem weaker vs thieves.

Maybe what you’re seeing most is that thieves always have a 1v1 build because that’s their entire skill set for every weapon (except shortbow I guess). While other classes are generally specced for larger fights which inherently gives them a disadvantage against roaming setups.

Engi’s fair fine, even at UP in wvw, if a BS thief comes, use elixir s and heal up, switch to nades and blind on ground.

Also, eventhough it’s been said already in this thread, people SHOULD go and try thieves in wvw for a while and try running around 10 people permastealthing and killing people with full berserker, just to see how easy it is to survive with 11k hp when people are spamming attacks all over them.

CnD from critters at times is annying, but if they do that then the CnD isn’t damaging you. CnD is also fairly easy to dodge since you can almost guarantee a thief is going to hit you with it when running straight at you.

And before anyone comes with the “another thief defending his class and telling others to L2P”, I’ve played all the classes in wvw, currently leveling an engi.

I don’t think that people should have to plan, strategise, use specific gear, skills, traits and armour all to survive one profession. That’s game breaking.

So last night I got finished by what seemed like a remote/distanced finishing move (which I know doesn’t exist). I didn’t see any thief go into stealth near me, so I have no clue what it was. It could have been a thief that had been already stealthed or another class that I couldn’t see due to this awesome culling. Anyone else ever experience this? Usually when I get ‘blind’ finished a thief stealths on me basically then finishes me.

Solori.6025:

Secondly, if your having problems with culling.
you need to upgrade your hardware.
With the recent change, culling got better for some and significantly worse for others.
That tells us that it may then be a hardware problem where people are using the lowest spec computers available.

If you are using the lowest grade of equipment, you may also want to come to terms that culling will possible never get better for you.

Culling has nothing to do with the client.

SoPP.7034:

I don’t think that people should have to plan, strategise, use specific gear, skills, traits and armour all to survive one profession. That’s game breaking.

It’s not really this so much as knowing what to do with your profession to counter them. I said it in my original post on this thread: Thief combat is entirely different from every other profession on the game. Naturally, then, it takes a bit of a different strategy to counter them. (In other words, not something you would necessarily do against others.) I honestly believe that lots would be solved if people just created Thieves to see what it’s like. That’s not OP, it’s just different.

Magiofdeath.2745:

So last night I got finished by what seemed like a remote/distanced finishing move (which I know doesn’t exist). I didn’t see any thief go into stealth near me, so I have no clue what it was. It could have been a thief that had been already stealthed or another class that I couldn’t see due to this awesome culling. Anyone else ever experience this? Usually when I get ‘blind’ finished a thief stealths on me basically then finishes me.

Ew. If it’s any help, I’ve seen a video of a Mesmer going into the stomp motion, Phase Retreting (Staff #2) away, continuing the motion (because it doesn’t break it, I guess), and just as the motion is about to finish Blinking (Mesmer teleport) back to the body to complete the stomp.

Could that be something like that? Of course, you’d be seeing the person start and finish it…

NYRKKIPAULA.8051:

see how easy it is to survive with 11k hp when people are spamming attacks all over them..

You tell its difficult to play a gc thief? lets pretend it is….

When you pull put your stealth burst against another GC, it doesn t count how skilled defender is….it just dies before he can react.

That means that defender skill is not involved….

So if that mechanic could be fine in PvE, its not in PvP.

And don t tell me to go around expecting a thief attack because its just silly…..

So last night I got finished by what seemed like a remote/distanced finishing move (which I know doesn’t exist). I didn’t see any thief go into stealth near me, so I have no clue what it was. It could have been a thief that had been already stealthed or another class that I couldn’t see due to this awesome culling. Anyone else ever experience this? Usually when I get ‘blind’ finished a thief stealths on me basically then finishes me.

It’s a bug that can happen sometimes.

SoPP.7034:

I don’t think that people should have to plan, strategise, use specific gear, skills, traits and armour all to survive one profession. That’s game breaking.

You have to trait and plain to remor conditions. You have to trait and plain to deal with range if your melee and melee if your range. The same things that help you vs GC thief help you vs any GC class.

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

At this point it is useless trying to talk to anti-thief people. You can exain all day how to beat thief and all you get is “why should I have too”. Why should oh have too? Have to what use the skills given to you in the game to counter other players in a pvp situation? Come on!

Explain me how to beat a semi-decent p/d thief as a mesmer. Well lets say a rather good p/d thief who generally doesn’t do stupid mistakes.

Next you can explain me how to beat him as a warrior. :P I also challenge you to not just explain, but also to prove that your explanation is correct. That is, to duel a p/d thief who is known to be very good and win. You should also do this with a build that is generally useful, not some gimmick that is useless against everything else but this 1 thief build.

For now it’s enough if you can show how to beat that thief with any other class than elementalist or thief itself.