Guild Wars 2

…and the living story on MMORPG.com!

Normally MMORPG.com writes overly good reviews to all things GW2 so I have been somewhat surprised to see such a well written article about Guild Wars 2 and its updates since release which is not so fond of it, that I though, I had to come over and link it.

The worlds most updated MMO is so true, any developer should take a look at it. I could not have it written better.

Have fun.

Like the article stated; bi-weekly updates are great in theory, but without combing through the content with a fine comb for bugs, then the updates get underminded and critisized by the players, regardless of how much work went into said patch.

Even still, a valued writer understands that a quality story takes patience and time to complete. Re-writes, new directions, and doubt are all part of making a great story come to life. As it stands for me in my view, the writing team has been pushing to get the story in and written as quickly as possible, with less patience to dive into the creative “pit” that’s hidden in their minds.

Returning to a monthly update would change my current degrading opinion on the current status of the game. I thought the monthly+ patch release let players take their time in the update, allowing them to enjoy the small tid-bits of each update. Now it feels like an assembly line, and both the updates and many players feel weary.

I hope to see a positive upswing in the future, maybe a new years resolution for GW2. The GemStore will only carry if the content alongside is exceptional.

Stay frosty.

I think the producers just underestimated the importance of quality over quantity. They got it in reverse. That is why the Living Story is not such a big success. You may hire me as a producer if you want.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I think the producers just underestimated the importance of quality over quantity. They got it in reverse. That is why the Living Story is not such a big success. You may hire me as a producer if you want.

You have good ideas from what I’ve read.

The article is very subjective reflecting the opinion of the author. The essence is that Arenanet will never satisfy all players. The results are nicely described in the article, when the devs tried it. Arenanet should therefore continue the route they have chosen and improve the things, which need to be addressed. The CDI is one tool to do it.

The quality of the Living Story is not worse than updates from other companies. Lately I bought (30 €) an update for another game. It was more disappointing and more buggy than each single release of Arenanet. The other devs had one year time to polish the update and find the bugs. They were not able to do it.

Compared to this Arenanet does a much better job. Living World is still in its infancy haven some drawbacks, but the devs are dealing with them. The quality is improved but still far away from perfect The CDI will give new impulses. They listen to the people joining the discussion but they will not buckle to fulfill all demands.

In my opinion the issue with Living Story is not its bi-weakly schedule. It is the lack of means for lore to be flashed out to the players.

One year since the beginning of the LS we are only starting to grasp the connection between Scarlet and Elder Dragons, and the outlines of her elaborate plans. That in itself is not a problem, in fact I’d say its quite the opposite, and if ANet managed to learn from their past mistakes, I hope that soon enough more and more people might be interested in what her next move is.
What does irk me about Scarlet (and I think this is the core issue with most of the people, whether they are aware of it or not) is that she seems to for some reason have more influence then an Elder Dragon.. The only piece of info we got on her background looks like a puff piece for the most intelligent mortal in the universe, and other then terms coerce, persuade, manipulate and bribe we have no idea how the hell did she manage to bring so many races/groups to play together and throw their lives for someone who at first sight looks like a complete lunatic.

I bet that if you run the analytics while people complain about not looking at core functions, the fact of the matter is that the bi-weekly content probably causes you to buy far more gems.

QFT

“The stories set you on a series of hamster wheels that force you to run, run, run in order to avoid missing things, and where’s the fun in that?”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

QFT

“The stories set you on a series of hamster wheels that force you to run, run, run in order to avoid missing things, and where’s the fun in that?”

If you behave like a hamster you feel like a hamster. Maybe you are an MMO-hamster.

Belenwyn.8674:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

QFT

“The stories set you on a series of hamster wheels that force you to run, run, run in order to avoid missing things, and where’s the fun in that?”

If you behave like a hamster you feel like a hamster. Maybe you are an MMO-hamster.

Logical failure!

Agreed, very well written article that summarizes what many are thinking.

Thanks for the link! That was a very nice read. Can’t really argue with anything that it said. I hope that Arena.net doesn’t get rid of the Living Story entirely, but redesigns the nature of its content. Much more light-hearted and permanent content would be appreciated, with the more serious content being temporary over the course of 1-3 months and then having some visual marks on the world afterwords.

Queen’s Jubilee and the Bazaar of the Four Winds both were good examples for Light-Hearted content, though the Jubilee was the only one with anything more permanent to it, even though that has only been a change to Divinity’s Reach that has since been closed. I can’t say there was really any reason for the Bazaar’s map to be removed/closed off.

“Explorers and completionists like doing things in their own time, and nothing undermines that like a ticking clock.”

So simple, so often repeated, and yet so completely over the heads of Anet.

So I guess I am not “one of the chosen.” When I read that article I see a couple of things:

1) The first part treats the player base like whiny children that can never be happy or satisfied (which is sadly true).

2) If you look at the more recent LS updates, they involve far less grind than older ones. The inclusion of the daily metas (though preferably when they aren’t required to get the meta) and providing extra achievements that aren’t necessary let more casual players have their shot.

3) also if these things are aimed at the casual player, who the heck cares if you miss out on “your achievement perfection goal” is that really a thing? Achievement points had no point until a couple of months ago when they are just a nice way to get some skins, account bonuses, WvW BoH, and gem store items.

4)

Aside from time constraints, another issue with the temporary content is its close ties to the game’s gem store.

The heck is he talking about? The only things offered in the gem store (either for direct buy or via rnd) are minis, town clothes, infinite tools, armor sets/pieces, weapon skins. So either QoL convenience items (which take years to “pay for themselves” if you used gold to gems) or cosmetics. I have never felt forced (or been forced) to buy anything from the gem store.

. This wouldn’t be a problem for most of us though, if we felt we were getting quality content for the money; at the moment however, that’s not really the case.

If people feel they aren’t getting quality content then they don’t need to buy it. Enough said…this game is B2P. For the $150,$80, $60, $40, $30 (and whatever other price I missed) you paid for this game you got your money’s worth. If you felt you got more value you can throw money into the gem store to help support them. If you feel that something is “worth it” in the gem store than you can throw money at it and help support the game. But these opinions/statements don’t represent the truth by any means. And for the people that did spend $100s on rnd boxes or what-have-you and were angry they didn’t get what they wanted, all I can say is I’m sorry and hopefully next time you can do more research before you blindly throw your money and something and complain it didn’t give you what you thought it would.

Also if people didn’t want items that were in the gem store the gold—>gem ratio would be a heck of a lot better than it is now.

5) The only valid point he made is about the bugs making it through QC. It is higher than any of us would like, but I want to believe that Anet is trying to weed out bugs. I have no clue what the size of their test team is, but it can’t be that large, but how much larger can they afford to make it. [Plus don’t forget about that if there were lots more testers, insider trading might become a bigger problem than it currently may be]. It’s just nice that usually the more glaring bugs are fixed within a day or so. It’s a bit sadder when it takes ~a week to fix others.

Have there been LS patches I disliked, sure there have (I’m looking at you Teq, you annoying boss). But I also realize that some people love that patch. Have there been design decisions I did not like, sure. I just find the whole MF change, karma nerf, ascended weapons, new agony infusions, and now ascended armor to all be massive gold sinks to counter the inflation caused by earlier LS. But I still partake in them for better and worse. I’ve gotten a lot of enjoyment out of this game so far, and I plan to continue to do so.

Honestly I don’t mind the two week LS updates. I like that I can choose not to do something if I don’t like it, and yet still have something new to try within 2-4 weeks. And if you miss something because of work/school/family you won’t be too far behind at all and won’t need to beg friends to do outdated content to get you geared up to do whatever the next new thing is.

Good article, really drives home what’s wrong with GW2 at this time. Who ever is in charge needs to take a long hard look at this and reevaluate the current game model.

… oh wait the money keeps coming in, carry on.

As long as this set up is turning a profit things won’t change and that pretty much means no real expansions. The model doesn’t care if you’re a loyal player either, sure people will get bored and find a new game but as long as there is a fresh stock of new players it won’t matter.

Things will change when a new MMO comes out that does what they are doing now but better, and what they are doing right now can be copied by a competitor. If nothing set them apart the temporary players made by temporary content will become fickle and move on and the loyal players will be too disappointed to care.

This is a great article that anyone who has gripes with the Living Story strategy should read.

The quote I identify with most:

Aside from time constraints, another issue with the temporary content is its close ties to the game’s gem store. Many players see this relationship as a ploy on ArenaNet’s part to get them to spend money and considering ArenaNet’s not a charity, those players are probably not wrong. This wouldn’t be a problem for most of us though, if we felt we were getting quality content for the money; at the moment however, that’s not really the case.

This sums up my personal gripes pretty well. I don’t mind spending money on GW2 as long as I am having fun. Right now I am not having fun, but I feel like I am being pushed towards the gem store anyways. That makes GW2 feel like a money-grabbing, experience-monetizing game rather than one that is genuinely F2P.

The way the LS is working right now it feels like GW2 has gone back on its promise to be a genuinely F2P game. It releases shoddy content that pushes you towards the gem-store to sustain your enjoyment of the game.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

If you felt you got more value you can throw money into the gem store to help support them. If you feel that something is “worth it” in the gem store than you can throw money at it and help support the game.

That’s just it though. When people like me bought this game we expected to buy things in the gem store because we were getting value out of the game. Right now, we’re not getting our value out of the game but we feel driven to the gem-store anyways.

There is a general lack of rewards that take time to get that are not linked to gold. Every PvE reward in GW2 is linked to gold, and pretty soon PvP rewards will be as well. But gold is also needed to buy commodity items in the gem-store. This makes it feel like you have two options in GW2: farm gold all day, every day; or spend $10 a month in the gem-shop. GW2 does not have a literal monthly fee, but it might as well for casual players who don’t want to farm consistently.

Finnway.2183:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

If you felt you got more value you can throw money into the gem store to help support them. If you feel that something is “worth it” in the gem store than you can throw money at it and help support the game.

That’s just it though. When people like me bought this game we expected to buy things in the gem store because we were getting value out of the game. Right now, we’re not getting our value out of the game but we feel driven to the gem-store anyways.

See I didn’t expect to buy anything from the gem store. I showed support by buying the CE version of the game and the soundtrack. In general, I’d rather have the overpriced nicknacks than a digital item. And seeing that I refuse to pay to play any game I really enjoyed the fact that I’d be able to save up my gold and get things for with in game money instead. But it’s fine as we just have a difference of opinion about that.

But I don’t understand this:

Right now, we’re not getting our value out of the game but we feel driven to the gem-store anyways.

How are you (and people that share your interests) being driven to the gem store? As I stated they only have cosmetic and QoL items. No booster or unlimited tool is needed to play the game (for example you don’t need the unlimited pick to mine Ori).

There is a general lack of rewards that take time to get that are not linked to gold. Every PvE reward in GW2 is linked to gold, and pretty soon PvP rewards will be as well. But gold is also needed to buy commodity items in the gem-store. This makes it feel like you have two options in GW2: farm gold all day, every day; or spend $10 a month in the gem-shop. GW2 does not have a literal monthly fee, but it might as well for casual players who don’t want to farm consistently.

Very true. The rewards in the game are either linked to gold, karma (which is just your literal time doing events), laurels (your time gated time), or achievements (a combination of time and/or skill). I don’t PvP much, but I am slightly concerned about them going to gold instead of glory. And I hate to use this “argument” but what commodity items do you “need”. The tools are a big “waste” of money that take years to pay for themselves (but then I don’t think I could go without mine because of the convince). Boosters (besides maybe a crafting if you want to save yourself money/mats) are not necessary at all. The only ones that I can see people spending money for is the armor/weapon skins. But once you find one or two you like, why do you need more?

That being said, what do you need money for? I leveled up my main in ~2-4 weeks or so, and paid the gold back then for the T6 mats for the armor I wanted, a MF set. A little latter I made a set for dungeons (and eventual fractal) set. And happily enough, I really liked the default heavy look, so I never needed to worry about my look (plus I play the game more so for killing, less so for dress up, but I know for some people looks are really important). So, after that, what purpose does gold have, other than to hoard it up? I’ve been saving up my gold since the 2-3rd month of the game, if I see something in the gem store that catches my eye I’ll throw some gold at it. If I don’t have enough (or want to save my gold) I’ll throw $10 if I really want it.

But outside of the very expensive skins, I don’t really see what point gold really has, besides getting absorbed by the new sinks that keep appearing in each patch. Most people need 2, maybe 3 sets of armor. Now that can get pricy if you do that for multiple characters, but I make my alts live off the land/account bound exotic drops.

And I’m just curious about what constitutes a “farmer” and a “casual”. Doing anything besides just doing events (champ trains, dungeons, fractals, world bosses, WvW) will at least make you decent money (or give you mats which you can sell for decent money). Now I hate champ farming, and I greatly dislike dungeons, but I love world boss fights, fractals, and now more-so WvW. There must be something you enjoy that is also profitable.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

5) The only valid point he made is about the bugs making it through QC. It is higher than any of us would like, but I want to believe that Anet is trying to weed out bugs. I have no clue what the size of their test team is, but it can’t be that large, but how much larger can they afford to make it. [Plus don’t forget about that if there were lots more testers, insider trading might become a bigger problem than it currently may be]. It’s just nice that usually the more glaring bugs are fixed within a day or so. It’s a bit sadder when it takes ~a week to fix others.

I could live with taking a week for a fix but many of the bugs have been around for months or since release. It’s not like they are unknown either, many have been reported numerous times through the forum alone.

One of the biggest problem I have with LS is that it feels like a constant push forward with little to no regard for fixing existing bugs. Sure there is occasional handful of fixes but during the same update there will be an equal number of new ones to replace them.

Many times the fixes mentioned in the patch notes do not even fix what it claims! It’s gotten to the point where I can’t even just tell a friend “hey! They fixed X” it has to be “hey! They fixed X … or at least the claimed to anyway”. I shouldn’t need to go test every fix mentioned in the patch notes to make sure it’s actually fixed. If it says it is fixed it should be fixed. The times where that is not the case should be exceedingly rare. It is currently the reverse.

Honestly I don’t mind the two week LS updates. I like that I can choose not to do something if I don’t like it, and yet still have something new to try within 2-4 weeks. And if you miss something because of work/school/family you won’t be too far behind at all and won’t need to beg friends to do outdated content to get you geared up to do whatever the next new thing is.

You can’t beg friends to do content that has gone away. :P

Khisanth.2948:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

5) The only valid point he made is about the bugs making it through QC. It is higher than any of us would like, but I want to believe that Anet is trying to weed out bugs. I have no clue what the size of their test team is, but it can’t be that large, but how much larger can they afford to make it. [Plus don’t forget about that if there were lots more testers, insider trading might become a bigger problem than it currently may be]. It’s just nice that usually the more glaring bugs are fixed within a day or so. It’s a bit sadder when it takes ~a week to fix others.

I could live with taking a week for a fix but many of the bugs have been around for months or since release. It’s not like they are unknown either, many have been reported numerous times through the forum alone.

One of the biggest problem I have with LS is that it feels like a constant push forward with little to no regard for fixing existing bugs. Sure there is occasional handful of fixes but during the same update there will be an equal number of new ones to replace them.

Many times the fixes mentioned in the patch notes do not even fix what it claims! It’s gotten to the point where I can’t even just tell a friend “hey! They fixed X” it has to be “hey! They fixed X … or at least the claimed to anyway”. I shouldn’t need to go test every fix mentioned in the patch notes to make sure it’s actually fixed. If it says it is fixed it should be fixed. The times where that is not the case should be exceedingly rare. It is currently the reverse.

Honestly I don’t mind the two week LS updates. I like that I can choose not to do something if I don’t like it, and yet still have something new to try within 2-4 weeks. And if you miss something because of work/school/family you won’t be too far behind at all and won’t need to beg friends to do outdated content to get you geared up to do whatever the next new thing is.

You can’t beg friends to do content that has gone away. :P

Well I agree with you about the bug fixes. Heck there was a Warrior trait that was either stealth nerfed (which they said they didn’t do). In June it was patched to do one thing, and when the new UI came out a couple of weeks ago it changed and was never mentioned in the patch notes and the 2-4 bug reports on it have still been ignored. Plus other various, “if you do X with Y trait, Z bug happens”, which like you said have been around for months, some since launch.

And as much as I don’t mind the LS, I also wouldn’t mind getting a week off every two patches to play however I want, or to even take a break from the game and work on my steam or ps3 game backlog. And yeah, I know that’s main the problem with the Living Story.

There’s another thread about a historian, that a lot of people seem to want. Kinda like the pool in HoM from gw1 or the character mission things. Let us “relive” any past living story just to see it (and to be able to rewatch the cut scenes). Heck I still want to be able to redo any personal story missions/rewatch those cut scenes. I don’t even want rewards for it, it would just be nice to be able to play content that I missed at my own pace. Sadly, the last response from the devs about it is that is what they intend to use FotM for. That works fine for 5 man dungeons, but I don’t see how they can show any other kind of content that way.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

[snip]

There is so much to reply to here I am not sure where to start.

And I’m just curious about what constitutes a “farmer” and a “casual”.

In terms of farming, my Guild leader kills world bosses at server reset every day, and has since the game launched. I enjoyed this for the first few weeks, but got bored of it because of the repetition. I don’t mind farming or doing dungeons 2-3 times a week, but I don’t want to do it everyday. This why I call myself a “casual farmer.”

Wallace MacBix.2089:

But I don’t understand this:

Right now, we’re not getting our value out of the game but we feel driven to the gem-store anyways.

How are you (and people that share your interests) being driven to the gem store?

Well, I am PvE focused player, and I’ll just by saying the main things I buy from the gem-store aren’t skins or QoL items, they are transmutation-crystals, make-over-kits, and name-change-contracts.

I expect some level of character customization/progression in an RPG. In GW2 this comes in the form of creating a unique appearance for my character. But almost every skin in the game is related to gold; whether it be bought in the gem-store, or crafted in the Mystic-Forge. I also need transmutation-crystals and make-over-kits, which are also bought with gold.

Some of these skins are so expensive I can’t unlock them regularly enough to feel like I’m progressing. For example: FoeFire’s Essence costs almost 200 gold to craft; that would take me 4 weeks of farming to get, and it’s not the only skin I want. This makes me feel like I’m wasting time if I am not farming gold. While I enjoy champion trains, killing world-bosses, or running dungeons periodically I don’t enjoy doing them everyday. A lot of these have repetitive boring content.

In order to progress my character l feel like have to play content I don’t enjoy, or pay $10 a month in the gem-store and convert the gems to gold. This is how PvE focused player like me feel we are being pushed towards the gem-store. While I don’t mind buying gems as long as I’m having fun. Right now I’m not having fun and that is partly because of the Living Story, and partly because there is a lack of ways to “progress” my character without spending gold.

To help make my point about customizing character’s appearances I uploaded a screenshot of my Guardian. I’m not really an role-player, but I like making “thematic characters” (i.e. characters that follow a theme) in any RPG I play.

This is my main, Finn Felagund. He was inspired by the Crusader class in the Diablo 3 expansion. His appearance is a mixture of T3 cultural, Karma, and dungeon armor.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Khisanth.2948:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

5) The only valid point he made is about the bugs making it through QC. It is higher than any of us would like, but I want to believe that Anet is trying to weed out bugs. I have no clue what the size of their test team is, but it can’t be that large, but how much larger can they afford to make it. [Plus don’t forget about that if there were lots more testers, insider trading might become a bigger problem than it currently may be]. It’s just nice that usually the more glaring bugs are fixed within a day or so. It’s a bit sadder when it takes ~a week to fix others.

I could live with taking a week for a fix but many of the bugs have been around for months or since release. It’s not like they are unknown either, many have been reported numerous times through the forum alone.

One of the biggest problem I have with LS is that it feels like a constant push forward with little to no regard for fixing existing bugs. Sure there is occasional handful of fixes but during the same update there will be an equal number of new ones to replace them.

Many times the fixes mentioned in the patch notes do not even fix what it claims! It’s gotten to the point where I can’t even just tell a friend “hey! They fixed X” it has to be “hey! They fixed X … or at least the claimed to anyway”. I shouldn’t need to go test every fix mentioned in the patch notes to make sure it’s actually fixed. If it says it is fixed it should be fixed. The times where that is not the case should be exceedingly rare. It is currently the reverse.

Honestly I don’t mind the two week LS updates. I like that I can choose not to do something if I don’t like it, and yet still have something new to try within 2-4 weeks. And if you miss something because of work/school/family you won’t be too far behind at all and won’t need to beg friends to do outdated content to get you geared up to do whatever the next new thing is.

You can’t beg friends to do content that has gone away. :P

Well I agree with you about the bug fixes. Heck there was a Warrior trait that was either stealth nerfed (which they said they didn’t do). In June it was patched to do one thing, and when the new UI came out a couple of weeks ago it changed and was never mentioned in the patch notes and the 2-4 bug reports on it have still been ignored. Plus other various, “if you do X with Y trait, Z bug happens”, which like you said have been around for months, some since launch.

And as much as I don’t mind the LS, I also wouldn’t mind getting a week off every two patches to play however I want, or to even take a break from the game and work on my steam or ps3 game backlog. And yeah, I know that’s main the problem with the Living Story.

There’s another thread about a historian, that a lot of people seem to want. Kinda like the pool in HoM from gw1 or the character mission things. Let us “relive” any past living story just to see it (and to be able to rewatch the cut scenes). Heck I still want to be able to redo any personal story missions/rewatch those cut scenes. I don’t even want rewards for it, it would just be nice to be able to play content that I missed at my own pace. Sadly, the last response from the devs about it is that is what they intend to use FotM for. That works fine for 5 man dungeons, but I don’t see how they can show any other kind of content that way.

I don’t use that trait so I don’t know exactly how valid it is but according to someone who has been using it before an after all those changes it has always been that way. When they changed it in June it was apparently just the tooltip that got changed so basically when the new tooltips came out they were just fixing the error introduced in the June patch.

As for getting a break from the LS I guess it depends on how much you play. I’ve completely skipped SAB2 and basically half skipped Tequatl Rising (I’ve done it a total of maybe 5 times so far). All the ToN/TNW stuff has been completed but halfheartedly. I’ve burned through both them proceed to treat them as if they didn’t exist.

As for the historian thing, <insert image of someone with apathy oozing out of every pore>. I can’t think of anything that has gone away that is really worth revisiting. There hasn’t been any time when I thought “it would be nice if I could play X again”. For some people SAB might fit the bill but other than that I can’t think of anything else.