Guild Wars 2

So if I’m correct they are going to lock down all servers per ‘league’ this would be 12 servers for NA and 9 servers for EU.

The question is now, can we make the bottom 9 servers of EU our GvG/roaming leauge?

This would mean:
- plenty of guilds to fight during primetime
- no PPT play
- roamers of every guild during off time
- lots of GvG possibilities
- always a server to help you with the orb issues
- EU and NA together
- queues should be ok if we spread everyone out over the 9 servers as there are barely queues on those servers now.
- scoring points won’t move your server up as the leauge is locked down, this should help with both EU and NA playing.

So.. who is up for it? please post your guild name!

i’m concerned about possible lag between NA and EU guilds… does anyone know what pings are like when playing on the wrong side of the ocean?

Someone I know from Texas was getting <20ms on NA servers and now gets >200ms on the European servers.

I have heard different stories about latency, I think you will only know when you try.

sign [Agg]Aggression up

If you go for a league you should take one with stuff to kill outside of GvGs
I’m sure many guilds want to be able to do normal raids aswell

Dont think the latency should be any problems. I’m sitting in Australia and playing in EU servers and dont have any problems at all. Know a lot of EU people that plays on NA no problem there, and we also have some US players on our server and no problem for them either. So latency shouldn’t be a very big issue.

Disturbed.4685:

i’m concerned about possible lag between NA and EU guilds… does anyone know what pings are like when playing on the wrong side of the ocean?

I play on Augury Rock [FR] from California and hardly notice any latency issues. There is a ~50ms delay that you can notice when using insta cast skills such as Shouts or Cantrips but it’s so slight that it doesn’t impact actual gameplay.

The bottom tiers will be too barren for when there aint much gvg’s going on imho… but the middle tiers will have the best of both worlds… if guilds move to the servers with space instead of stack on one’s that are already full… the bottom half of the mid tier the likes of Fort Ranik,underworld, Drakkar’s, gunnar’s probally has some space during prime time and if bigger guilds spread out across those from the higher tiers, then the likely hood of a dead match up will be decreased considerably… or people ducking gvg fights…

Wamgor.9347:

The bottom tiers will be too barren for when there aint much gvg’s going on imho… but the middle tiers will have the best of both worlds… if guilds move to the servers with space instead of stack on one’s that are already full… the bottom half of the mid tier the likes of Fort Ranik,underworld, Drakkar’s, gunnar’s probally has some space during prime time and if bigger guilds spread out across those from the higher tiers, then the likely hood of a dead match up will be decreased considerably… or people ducking gvg fights…

I disagree. Being on gunnar’s myself there is not many space left for guilds to join and gunnar’s would be the lowest server in the 2nd leauge of EU, imagine servers above it.

I don’t understand why people are affraid there won’t be anything happening besides GvGs, as most guilds do only one or 2 GvGs a week and the rest they will be out in the open field, depending on how many guilds are interested for this kind of play there should be plenty of fights.

What I have in mind is that we have 9 servers and we would spread out all guilds that are interested over the 9 servers.

Why in my opinion the bottom tiers are better than the mid tiers is because of the queues, you won’t be able to fit all guilds in the same leauge (without queues) in the mid-table. While servers like arborstone, vabbi, fow, wsr, ros have lots of spaces alone.

Enjoy fighting vabbi, whiteside, blacktide, FoW, they dont have the pugs to fight, some of these servers are happy the way they are low pop and dont have to handle zergs, which will then come in the form of 30-40 man guild groups, it would destroy their little comunity in the process.
You need the pugs to strenghten your guild and keep up the fun when fighting against them and playing off primetime.

Not to mention a lot of guilds want to fight big numbers when they feel like it, people who are highest tier will probably stay there tbh

Esuni.2498:

Enjoy fighting vabbi, whiteside, blacktide, FoW, they dont have the pugs to fight, some of these servers are happy the way they are low pop and dont have to handle zergs, which will then come in the form of 30-40 man guild groups, it would destroy their little comunity in the process.
You need the pugs to strenghten your guild and keep up the fun when fighting against them and playing off primetime.

Not to mention a lot of guilds want to fight big numbers when they feel like it, people who are highest tier will probably stay there tbh

I would indeed enjoy fighting those servers if there are guilds on those servers, if your guild prefers to fight pugs than so be it. The question is what guilds are interested, noone forces you to if you’re not.

Another Jinkism that took off.

lawlz

Esuni.2498:

Enjoy fighting vabbi, whiteside, blacktide, FoW, they dont have the pugs to fight, some of these servers are happy the way they are low pop and dont have to handle zergs, which will then come in the form of 30-40 man guild groups, it would destroy their little comunity in the process.
You need the pugs to strenghten your guild and keep up the fun when fighting against them and playing off primetime.

Not to mention a lot of guilds want to fight big numbers when they feel like it, people who are highest tier will probably stay there tbh

Well, if NA players come to that tier as well then that will provide you the off hour fights. And better yet it wont be vs pugs, it will be vs guilds.

I will take fighting guild raids over pug zergs in primetime anyday, I dont enjoy being blobbed and overwhelmed by skill lag.

The way I see it is, the gvg community prides itself on being a player driven scene, we now have the best tool for creating an entire GvG league that is balanced and regulated by us as players to ensure that every server can provide competition. We can take this opportunity and basically have what we want from WvW. Or we can stay hesitant and pessimistic and never get anything anyways.

I know what I would prefer.

Oh and as far as latency goes, I live in Canada but have been playing with VoTF since launch primarily on EU servers. I also played tpvp competitively with the latency from NA to EU, suffice to say that for me personally there are no issues. The only noticeable thing is when everybody spams “F” at a supply depot, I am less likely to get supply due to like 30-50ms more.

Oh and on NA servers I could dodge all of Serane’s burning speeds and own his D/D ele <3 Serane (I cant dodge that consistently on EU when reflexing animations, but its not game breaking.)

@ TUP guys,
I think you’re kinda missing the point, those servers are empty right now, but if we got all the big WvW(non-ppt carebear) guilds to transfer there, they won’t be empty anymore. I’m assuming a guild will GvG 2-3 nights, but when the match is done, and the other days, they’ll all be playing “regular” WvW. And considering the idea of all this, they will be running solo and not blobbing, so you might actually have a bigger chance of finding fights all around the map.
It’ll also be pretty good for smaller roaming, since NA guys will be playing off-time during EU and the other way around too.
But before signing anyone up, we need more info on this. First we need to wait for the 17th to know what exactly the orb mechanic will do, and how we’ll have to around it. And then we’ll have to wait for more info on how the league system will work to actually pick the place to transfer too.

Its a nice idea, but I don’t see it happening. There are alot of guilds that are heavily invested in their server community. And I imagine it would be an even bigger hurdle for NA guilds.
I’m sure there are some guilds who would be willing to do this, but I can’t see it reaching “critical mass”. You’d need the co-operation of 50+ guilds to make this workable.

We’re not missing the point don’t worry.
It’s more that mid tier has everything you could want, especially if you fill up the lower servers in that league.
If the guilds on mid tier were to leave they would be more empty than the lower tiers, there would most likely be no difference talking mainyl AG, gandara, GH and possibly BB here. All servers here have space for 1-6 joining them resulting in constant fighting which there already is, even more spaces if na were to join in.

The point I’m making is that some servers have a proper comunity built up and destroying that would only screw over WvW as a whole and put the people who want GvG in a bad position.
Mid tier also gives the posibility of new guilds joining up. Not to mention not everyone wants to play full focus all the time.
Lower league servers play for ptt just as much as any other, they just dont have the players to do so properly
Pugs will come transfer over once guilds go there aswell, shown by how FSP, RoS and WSR have fallen down.

I agree with Ragnar there, but it would be great if this could be done

Ragnar.4257:

Its a nice idea, but I don’t see it happening. There are alot of guilds that are heavily invested in their server community. And I imagine it would be an even bigger hurdle for NA guilds.
I’m sure there are some guilds who would be willing to do this, but I can’t see it reaching “critical mass”. You’d need the co-operation of 50+ guilds to make this workable.

Not sure, most guilds that are really serious about GvG arent really that invested into their server community. Nonetheless whether they are or arent, this is about the best shot of getting what we want sometime before 2014, so take it or leave it, thats up to the community to decide.

@Jackie
Thats about 5-6 guilds for you right there, these guilds will be on the #1 league of EU fighting eachother if the move doesnt happen anyway (except for fury being on GH)
Also saying that is against the argument used of “GvG guilds are the main WvW guilds that are the backbone of the WvW comunity”
For that reason many guilds wont move and theres only a few guilds dedicated to moving like that to create the perfect gvg system, for that you need a way to get those WvW+GvG guilds to come with you. Moving isnt as easy for some guilds as it is for others.

Edit:
Do not forget that you need atleast 1-1.5K eu players to move to the last league to have it give active fights, more if some guilds dont play every day. The servers would be boring as hell to be on if you could only get a few guilds to transfer, where its 100x easier to populate the mid league (yes there is more than enough space for everyone)

It happened before, tons of guilds moved around purely to be able to fight each other, when the matchups weren’t random, and created a guild fighting tier (AR-BB-Piken), and that after we had SFR getting a fair amount of guilds as well, not jsut to work up the ladder but also to be able to get fights.
And even with the matchups being random, you still see some movement of guilds who Really want to fight certain people.

Don’t see why it couldn’t happen again tbh, guilds aren’t nearly as invested in the communities in general as you seem to think. If you are, good for you, enjoy.

As much as I would love to see this happen. I don’t see most guilds in NA switching due to most of them like to play for PPT or feel like they have much time invested in their server. I really hope I am wrong, and this works out.

I’m sure most guilds would prefer silver league because the mid-tier servers probably have better communities than the weakest servers. However, there is a big problem with the silver league servers. First of all it looks like there will be 1 french, 0-1 spanish, 3-4 german and only 4 international servers in the silver league. There aren’t enough good german guilds to fill all those servers so some international guilds would probably have to transfer to a german or french server. I doubt many guilds would be ready to do that besides VoTF and Scnd. Also, the international servers which will likely end up in silver league already have some queues. As far as I know AG, UW and gandara have a lot of pve players which means that the new updates will probably make the queues even worse. In bronze league the guilds would be able to spread more evenly since there are 7 international servers and queues are shorter.

I think that all guilds on gw2gvg.com should be asked these 3 questions before deciding anything else about the gvg league:
Would you transfer to/stay on a server that’s in silver league?
Would you transfer to/stay on a server that’s in bronze league?
Would you be able to transfer to a german or french server?

Zeke.6037:

As much as I would love to see this happen. I don’t see most guilds in NA switching due to most of them like to play for PPT or feel like they have much time invested in their server. I really hope I am wrong, and this works out.

GvG focused guilds don’t care much, if at all, about PPT. Those are the guilds this proposal is targeting.

naan.1823:

I’m sure most guilds would prefer silver league because the mid-tier servers probably have better communities than the weakest servers. However, there is a big problem with the silver league servers. First of all it looks like there will be 1 french, 0-1 spanish, 3-4 german and only 4 international servers in the silver league. There aren’t enough good german guilds to fill all those servers so some international guilds would probably have to transfer to a german or french server. I doubt many guilds would be ready to do that besides VoTF and Scnd. Also, the international servers which will likely end up in silver league already have some queues. As far as I know AG, UW and gandara have a lot of pve players which means that the new updates will probably make the queues even worse. In bronze league the guilds would be able to spread more evenly since there are 7 international servers and queues are shorter.

I think that all guilds on gw2gvg.com should be asked these 3 questions before deciding anything else about the gvg league:
Would you transfer to/stay on a server that’s in silver league?
Would you transfer to/stay on a server that’s in bronze league?
Would you be able to transfer to a german or french server?

queues on AG isn’t that bad mostly it’s just 1 border that’s queued, sometimes 2 So still lot of open spots, and I’m pretty sure it’s the same on all the other mid tiers servers aswell.

Question: would it make sense to transfer EU’s over here and pick a bottom tier NA league? With only 6 servers per tier here, I think that would make more sense, and we’d have a lot more concentration.

NA is being divided into two only — top 12 and bottom 12. There will only be two leagues in NA. In EU there will be three leagues. Mid-tier EU would probably be the best bet simply because A: EU is more tolerant/actively has guilds/servers that GvG; and B: NA you’ll get pushback no matter which server you pick. Plus transfer fees, with the exception of a few servers, are MUCH cheaper EU than NA.

I cannot speak for my guild as to if we would transfer servers for a GvG league, but i can say that we have only 50 members and we could not care less for PPT. The only reason we even lay siege down is for “zerg bait”. We would be perfectly content standing around at ruins or windmill watching and participating in 1v1’s 5v5’s 10v10’s or even full on GvGs.

Jayne.9251:

NA is being divided into two only — top 12 and bottom 12. There will only be two leagues in NA. In EU there will be three leagues. Mid-tier EU would probably be the best bet simply because A: EU is more tolerant/actively has guilds/servers that GvG; and B: NA you’ll get pushback no matter which server you pick. Plus transfer fees, with the exception of a few servers, are MUCH cheaper EU than NA.

Is the 12 server split confirmed? I have read a lot of people saying it’s a 4×6 split instead of a 2×12 split.

Marty I think your GvG website might be a good place to put up a sign up and polls once the new site is up. Lots of things would need to be discussed and clarified.

1. Which league to move to ? Mid Tier EU – Low Tier EU
2. How will the guild allocation work? Seeded based on current rankings? Or based on international vs french/german servers?
3. What is going to be the format of the league? Will there be two separate leagues for 15v15 and 20v20?

Things that would need to be organized would be things like consistent shoutcasting panel like Sacrx/Ogro etc as well as writers who can cover GvGs daily and post a quick written recap / analysis on it.

Also I know some people are saying lets wait for the 17th etc and see what happens with the ORBS but we need to be prepared for the worst. We need to have a loose blueprint of a GvG league which means we need an accurate number of signups (guilds interested in this) asap; and we need to decide as a community on the format of the league as well as the tier. Majority polls should do the trick.

All I am saying is its going to take a lot of effort to create a league and to make sure it succeeds and gets the required attention from ANET. Even though its sounds difficult the easy part is getting all the GvG guilds to agree to move to a certain league; the hard part is making sure the GvG league actually succeeds in terms of viewership, quality as well as execution.

UPDATE: Confirmed – 2×12 https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Method-to-decide-the-Leagues/first#post2746708

Lanimal.6541:

Marty I think your GvG website might be a good place to put up a sign up and polls once the new site is up. Lots of things would need to be discussed and clarified.

1. Which league to move to ? Mid Tier EU – Low Tier EU
2. How will the guild allocation work? Seeded based on current rankings? Or based on international vs french/german servers?
3. What is going to be the format of the league? Will there be two separate leagues for 15v15 and 20v20?

Alright, let’s just keep this thread for discussing then.

As for the suggested mid tier EU, I still think this is a bad idea. For me it would be great, as I’m already in a mid tier server and I wouldn’t have to transfer, but for other guilds that would still have to find a server would be impossible. There would just be too many queues. For example Gunnar’s Hold, which is placed last in the silver leauge would only have place for 1 europian guild. There are also servers with loads of people already there, like AM, Gandara, AG and BB.

Yes, maybe you could place all guilds on the mid tier servers, but there would be queues making border switching a really hard thing to do.

Then there’s also the issue that there are 4 monolingual servers out of the 9 in the silver leauge, while that’s 2 out of 9 in the bronze leauge.

Personally I think we would ruin the pug’s fun also less in the bronze leauge as there are.. well less of them.

Anyway, this is a good point for discussion and ofcourse really depends on how many guilds would sign.

Either way what it’s going to be, in my opinion locking down a leauge for all GvG guilds, roaming and actual GvG wise would be awesome and should happen nonetheless.

PAXA tried this same thing with 5 man roaming groups in the low tiers. Here is what happened when guilds started losing they quit, that’s including PAXA. Part of the fun of WvW is rolling lower skilled players that outnumber you, casually farming people. Running into the absolute best constantly with one slip up leading to a wipe gets folks burnt out. No casual group make up or alts etc…

Other issue its going to be PvDoor on off hours.

GvG is great and all but its a very minor bit of the playtime WvWers do. The core of the best GvG guilds I have seen are really small man roamers that enjoy the constant outnumbered fights.

Beware sucking the fun out of guilds WvW playtime.

Look at the views on Ogres videos, we have a community and the numbers to push for a field to do GvGs with PvE gear stats. Deathmatch GvG is the most popular game mode in any MMO I have ever played.

In addition I think the GvG guilds on each server are having a positive impact more guilds are getting involved more players larger community. Yes there are bad apple rude GvG guilds but we are seeing an increase in numbers of guilds wanting to GvG, even in the low tiers we are starting to get more people watching matches and guilds that never used to GvG are fielding teams. There are a ton of ‘unoffical’ matches being played each week.

Running to a few servers would lead to a slow death of the GvG population. It would be a mistake in the long run.

As for the suggested mid tier EU, I still think this is a bad idea. For me it would be great, as I’m already in a mid tier server and I wouldn’t have to transfer, but for other guilds that would still have to find a server would be impossible. There would just be too many queues. For example Gunnar’s Hold, which is placed last in the silver leauge would only have place for 1 europian guild. There are also servers with loads of people already there, like AM, Gandara, AG and BB.

Are you sure there would only be place for 1 EU guild on GH now Syndz? :S Almost find that hard to believe when we can still move 20-35man groups around 3 maps on AG. We normally dont have a bigger nightpresence then 15-20 people either, and normally get most of our points during primetime.
On resets we normally get 3 borders queued, but every other day it’s only EB. Even today it was only EB that was queued, except for a little time when FIRE, TUP, NP and pugs tried to get into RoS border as that was the borderland all the FSP guilds ran to after getting wiped off every other map that our guilds had been to :P

The only “big” problem I could see by stacking so many GvG guilds in the same league is that the windmill area will be SO busy! In the matchup we had last week, AG vs ER vs AR. It was almost impossible to get a GvG going if you hadn’t talked to all the guilds on all the servers. As it was 4-5 GvG’s going on each day :P

we dont have to use windmill, we can use Ruins, southwest garrison sentry area, north of NWT, between bay and briar field, west of Lake tower, and between hills and garrison open fields.

Jackie.1829:

Oh and on NA servers I could dodge all of Serane’s burning speeds and own his D/D ele <3 Serane (I cant dodge that consistently on EU when reflexing animations, but its not game breaking.)

……………………
wow you just had to mention it :P
i still stand by spvp d/d ele being bad!

great ideas jericho

are we wanting to stay in this tier for as long as we can, or are we only going to stay there for the 7 weeks the league is going on?

if you are planning on staying, we need to know which guilds run traditional wvw raids and put them in a lower tier so they dont break out of our matchup

I think the 7 weeks will serve as a trial, Im not sure if the leauges will start over after that, or that it will turn into regular wvw. Anyway, im pretty sure guilds dont have a gvg that night will just do normal wvw.

@triplios, Yes all of GH guilds run every night, we have always 3 borders queued with one guild already on the last one. GH doesnt have any coverage besides primetime and the guilds dont care for PPT.

but is normal wvw attacking towers and keeps or roaming around looking for fights? because for us being asked to help take a tower is like asking us to run a fractal

@Syndz, gotta say that actually surprised me a lot that GH have that many players during primetime :O the PPT game mostly comes for all our raiding guilds aswell, but we have some smaller community events/guilds etc. that you know about that like to defend. But still surprises me a lot that GH is down at 16th? while AG is up at 13th? and we still got space for moving mostly around on all maps during primetime :P

naan.1823:

I doubt many guilds would be ready to do that besides VoTF and Scnd.

No doubt it was a massive risk coming to a national server with an international guild, and we lost some very good players due to it. Personally though, it’s the best decision I think we ever made. I never want to go back to an international server for as long as I play GW2

Disturbed.4685:

but is normal wvw attacking towers and keeps or roaming around looking for fights? because for us being asked to help take a tower is like asking us to run a fractal

That is for the guilds to decide for themselves, speaking for FURY, we roam for fights and I expect most guilds to not care for PPT.

@Trip, as I said, primetime is all GH got, there would be place for american guilds, just not europian

I think we should start making a list of how many more players each server in mid league can can field and what guilds are up for moving there, and possibly the same for the bottom if youre really stubborn :p
but these lists may change during this month
If we do this we should balance all the current servers as much as possible to avoid queues and also make that the US people transfering have proper numbers to fight when they dont gvg off our primetime.
Even more, you need a reason for them to come, make some challenge or make each season a gvg season which decides the current winner. Make sure they can do what they want to do (Roam/kill zergs)

edit here : if it starts oct 4th, you should make sure everything is done in proper time so people dont go all rando mor that it gets canceled for people staying where they are because of certain guilds staying

That said, you also have many DE and FR GvG guilds that can fill the german and fr servers aswell.

On another note, did Devon even say how often these seasons start cause theres quiet a few questions regarding this in the wvw forum :x

Season starts Oct 4th

Any news on this topic?

Could we get a list of guilds interested somewhere?

We would be interested but kinda want know who will be there

I will make a vote for every guild on the gw2gvg website, just give me few more days.

Awesome thanks

great idea marty

This idea is now more viable than ever with the Orbageddon approaching.