Guild Wars 2

Why? (I don’t do GvG.)

Is it because they don’t contribute to ppt and cause ppt players to be stuck in the queue and thus hurt the performance of their server?

If this is the case, GvG players would do well to move to the lower tiers where there are no queues except possible for a few hours on reset.

Everybody wins in this case. Low tier servers get some population and GvGers can GvG.

Blix.8021:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

Sad as it is, you kind of nailed it.

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

well, probably because most gvg guilds play wvw too. farming zergs from time to time also helps against burnout.

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

People who GvG also WvW, usually looking for a large zerg to go kill. Those zergs only exist in tiers 1-2, and maybe sometimes in tier 3. If you put even a mediocre GvG guild in a tier 4 or lower server, they would just roflstomp anything in their way and end up PvDooring an entire BL because the lower tier servers offer no comparable competition.

I don’t mind gvg, but if someone can’t get in because a gvg caused a queue, I could see where the wvw players who don’t like it are coming from. I think there are too many gvg guilds that demand wvw players respect there gvg and expect that. I myself personally never interrupt a gvg. However, I don’t think it should be surprising if other players do. I think it mostly back and forth hostility between gvg players and wvw players who don’t want to hear about it or have it affect wvw.

Blix.8021:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

If you think Zergs only exist in Tier 1-2 and sometimes 3. In EU you are sorely mistaken. My guild will always fight the zergs, zergs are all that is wrong with the game, they develop no skill level by running in zergs. If anything the quality of opponent is worse the higher the tier. The guild groups of mid tiers are a lot harder to fight than the huge zergs of higher tiers.

People in general like max reward for little effort, thus they will zerg, they will not improve and thus get farmed by guilds. Long may the circle of life continue.

PPT people need to get off their high horses though, most self respecting WvW guilds earn more points in the 4+ hours they raid each day without trying/obsessing over points – just a by-product of looking for fights, than they will do during the same day.

Why do people insist on separating the GvG and WvW aspect. EVERY gvg loving guild, does WvW and has done for the last year. It’s not like they don’t WvW folks. Sheesh.

When most people do gvg, it’s usually in some out of the way place where it won’t get in anyone’s way in the first place. if they’d put in some sort of area in WvW where the buff wouldn’t be active, that could work too. They have that jumping puzzle thing anyway, why not something like that for GvG? And no, before anyone says it, spvp is NOT an option. I detest spvp, its far too limiting and I prefer using the gear that I worked for and builds I made rather than some stupid amulet that doesn’t even have the stats I want.

Dranul.2094:

If you think Zergs only exist in Tier 1-2 and sometimes 3. In EU you are sorely mistaken. My guild will always fight the zergs, zergs are all that is wrong with the game, they develop no skill level by running in zergs. If anything the quality of opponent is worse the higher the tier. The guild groups of mid tiers are a lot harder to fight than the huge zergs of higher tiers.

People in general like max reward for little effort, thus they will zerg, they will not improve and thus get farmed by guilds. Long may the circle of life continue.

PPT people need to get off their high horses though, most self respecting WvW guilds earn more points in the 4+ hours they raid each day without trying/obsessing over points – just a by-product of looking for fights, than they will do during the same day.

I can’t speak to EU, but there is a massive population drop off after tier 2 in NA. That’s why everyone is complaining about the new league system.

well have you read some of the gvgers posts? calling people noobs scrubs and numerous other names generally doesnt make whoever your talking about the happiest person in the world….spamming wvw streams with gvg so people with honest question actually related to wvw cant ask them doesn’t help…

i know its not just the gvgers and the non gvgers say plenty of things themselves so hopefully that answers your question

ps i do hope that the gvgers get there own arena just so that the community can stop being divided over some issues (blood lust anyone)

Dranul.2094:

If you think Zergs only exist in Tier 1-2 and sometimes 3. In EU you are sorely mistaken. My guild will always fight the zergs, zergs are all that is wrong with the game, they develop no skill level by running in zergs. If anything the quality of opponent is worse the higher the tier. The guild groups of mid tiers are a lot harder to fight than the huge zergs of higher tiers.

People in general like max reward for little effort, thus they will zerg, they will not improve and thus get farmed by guilds. Long may the circle of life continue.

PPT people need to get off their high horses though, most self respecting WvW guilds earn more points in the 4+ hours they raid each day without trying/obsessing over points – just a by-product of looking for fights, than they will do during the same day.

EU has more zergs during primetime among all the tiers because there are less timezones in EU that people play in. NA has like an 8 hour+ primetime.

Blix.8021:

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

People who GvG also WvW, usually looking for a large zerg to go kill. Those zergs only exist in tiers 1-2, and maybe sometimes in tier 3. If you put even a mediocre GvG guild in a tier 4 or lower server, they would just roflstomp anything in their way and end up PvDooring an entire BL because the lower tier servers offer no comparable competition.

Wrong. Lower tiers have good players and guilds. The problem is numbers. A gvg guild running a zerg of their own greatly changes things because the overall wvw population and coverage is much lower. It has nothing to do with skill or competitiveness. The just don’t have the numbers. If the numbers stayed the same that would be ideal. The lower tiers probably have higher percentage of skilled player comparative to their wvw population/participation. Higher tiers have more overall skilled players and organized(not all skilled but organized)guilds because they have crap loads of total wvw players.

Elochai.1280:

Blix.8021:

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

People who GvG also WvW, usually looking for a large zerg to go kill. Those zergs only exist in tiers 1-2, and maybe sometimes in tier 3. If you put even a mediocre GvG guild in a tier 4 or lower server, they would just roflstomp anything in their way and end up PvDooring an entire BL because the lower tier servers offer no comparable competition.

Wrong. Lower tiers have good players and guilds. The problem is numbers. A gvg guild running a zerg of their own greatly changes things because the overall wvw population and coverage is much lower. It has nothing to do with skill or competitiveness. The just don’t have the numbers. If the numbers stayed the same that would be ideal. The lower tiers probably have higher percentage of skilled player comparative to their wvw population/participation. Higher tiers have more overall skilled players and organized(not all skilled but organized)guilds because they have crap loads of total wvw players.

I didn’t say players in lower tiers were bad, I said even a mediocre GvG guild would roflstomp them, which you agreed with when you said “A gvg guild running a zerg of their own greatly changes things because the overall wvw population and coverage is much lower.” Take a 25 man GvG guild, stick them in tier 5, add in 15 pugs and that group will destroy whatever map they are on. Period. That’s not fun for the GvG guild.

Well I can try to answer the question as diplomatically as possible and hopefully not ruffle too many feathers. I do not GvG, our guild is a tiny, family guild. Although it does not bother me too much one way or the other I can foresee that it might in the future.

Think about the dynamics of WvW as they currently are. You are doing your best to protect what is yours and to gain points for your server and one of the larger guilds decides that they want to GvG. While that fight is going on, even if it is tucked away in some forgotten corner of the map, you can forget about asking those people for any assistance in defending a keep for example. They are on the map, may very well have a Commander tag up, but they are not involved in WvW, they are involved in GvG. At this point in time they are not playing the same game with the same goals as the rest of the people on the map. If it is one of your larger guilds then they not only are hurting you at that point by not helping, they also count against your map cap and could prevent you from bringing in people from another map to assist.

Secondly, if there is a GvG match going on on the map I am on how do I know it is GvG? If I happen to see red and to me red is dead, is it fair for me to be called out by my own teammates for playing the game as a WvW’er and not a GvG’er?

Going forward, once the leagues are active I can see this division between those that are serious about WvW and those that want to GvG becoming worse as there will be more incentive to gain as many points per tick in WvW as possible. Will it be fair that all players in WvW share in the reward should they win when all “Guild X” did was particpate in GvG while their teammates do all the heavy lifting?

If the GvG goals were the same as the WvW goals then it would not matter one way or the other but currently such is not the case. They are, while a GvG fight is going on, diametrically opposite of each other. Like oil and water they just do not mix. At this point the only thing that would help is a separate map for those that wish to GvG but at the point it becomes another game in itself such as WvW, sPvP and PvE are now.

So hopefully that helps you understand why many people may harbor hostility against those that just want to GvG.

Blix.8021:

Elochai.1280:

Blix.8021:

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

People who GvG also WvW, usually looking for a large zerg to go kill. Those zergs only exist in tiers 1-2, and maybe sometimes in tier 3. If you put even a mediocre GvG guild in a tier 4 or lower server, they would just roflstomp anything in their way and end up PvDooring an entire BL because the lower tier servers offer no comparable competition.

Wrong. Lower tiers have good players and guilds. The problem is numbers. A gvg guild running a zerg of their own greatly changes things because the overall wvw population and coverage is much lower. It has nothing to do with skill or competitiveness. The just don’t have the numbers. If the numbers stayed the same that would be ideal. The lower tiers probably have higher percentage of skilled player comparative to their wvw population/participation. Higher tiers have more overall skilled players and organized(not all skilled but organized)guilds because they have crap loads of total wvw players.

I didn’t say players in lower tiers were bad, I said even a mediocre GvG guild would roflstomp them, which you agreed with when you said “A gvg guild running a zerg of their own greatly changes things because the overall wvw population and coverage is much lower.” Take a 25 man GvG guild, stick them in tier 5, add in 15 pugs and that group will destroy whatever map they are on. Period. That’s not fun for the GvG guild.

That I agree with it wouldnt be fun for anyone. It would be hard to expect the guilds to spread out correctly if they did move. Sorry the way you said what you did made it soundlike higher tier skill level was generally above lower tiers. That’s what it sounded like. My bad.

I like to GvG but I understand why their is hostility but the hostility has more to do with the people that feel as if they are doing sit-ins on Anets stream and spam GvG like they are protesting Wall Street. That is where there is some hostility toward GvG.

Both sides have valid arguments but in the end WvW is about PPT and will be even more so when they introduce leagues. It’s like joining tPvP and your intent is to go up in rank but you have 2 or 3 people that go off to the side and 1v1 each other.

GvG players think the World vs World game should revolve around them, So any changes that might affect them shouldn’t go in.

Its almost as kittenPvP having an affect on Balance in World vs World.

Either way, They’d probably get more support if GvG wasn’t an unwatchable mess that random people who didn’t play the game could distinguish between just zerging vs actually playing for skill

Said it before, Until GvG players grow balls and drop down to 10 vs 10 so actual skill can be displayed, They’ll forever be disregarded in balancing of WvW features.

This basically they same debate that existed when I played DAOC.

If you want to GvG, fine play your way and I’ll play mine.

BUT…

What am I supposed to do when I get rolled by the enemy GvG team that’s supposedly in WvW “just for the fights”?? When the enemy GvG team is flipping our camps & towers even thought they here “just for the fights”??

You see the problem it presents. On one hand you want to be left alone to “have good fights” so then you should only be running through a BL to your fight club location and leaving everything and everyone else alone.

That rarely happens.

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

If the reason genuinely is (and I dont think it is) because of points then well.. thats just the stupidest notion I have heard i nthe long time.

I mean just looking at GH, I have think of 6 major WvW guild off the top of my head, at leats 4 of them look for GvG every week.

Those 4 guilds contribute more to the servers overall ranking, score and general standing probably more than the rest of the server combined. If all 4 left the server would fall instantly to a fraction of its former self.

So given that how import they are to the servers score… why not let them have 2 hours a week where they can go do something else? I mean seriously.

Theftwind.8976:

Well I can try to answer the question as diplomatically as possible and hopefully not ruffle too many feathers. I do not GvG, our guild is a tiny, family guild. Although it does not bother me too much one way or the other I can foresee that it might in the future.

Think about the dynamics of WvW as they currently are. You are doing your best to protect what is yours and to gain points for your server and one of the larger guilds decides that they want to GvG. While that fight is going on, even if it is tucked away in some forgotten corner of the map, you can forget about asking those people for any assistance in defending a keep for example. They are on the map, may very well have a Commander tag up, but they are not involved in WvW, they are involved in GvG. At this point in time they are not playing the same game with the same goals as the rest of the people on the map. If it is one of your larger guilds then they not only are hurting you at that point by not helping, they also count against your map cap and could prevent you from bringing in people from another map to assist.

Secondly, if there is a GvG match going on on the map I am on how do I know it is GvG? If I happen to see red and to me red is dead, is it fair for me to be called out by my own teammates for playing the game as a WvW’er and not a GvG’er?

Going forward, once the leagues are active I can see this division between those that are serious about WvW and those that want to GvG becoming worse as there will be more incentive to gain as many points per tick in WvW as possible. Will it be fair that all players in WvW share in the reward should they win when all “Guild X” did was particpate in GvG while their teammates do all the heavy lifting?

If the GvG goals were the same as the WvW goals then it would not matter one way or the other but currently such is not the case. They are, while a GvG fight is going on, diametrically opposite of each other. Like oil and water they just do not mix. At this point the only thing that would help is a separate map for those that wish to GvG but at the point it becomes another game in itself such as WvW, sPvP and PvE are now.

So hopefully that helps you understand why many people may harbor hostility against those that just want to GvG.

I don’t see an issue at all with your first point (they are on the map but aren’t contributing to ppt). Unless they’re causing queues, just pretend they aren’t there. It’s the same for people who are afk or crafting or doing the JP’s. If you disallowed all these people from doing these things, it’s not like they would suddenly be contributing, they’d probably just log out.

As for putting commander tags on — I see how that can be an issue.

Blix.8021:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

Nice generalization, but that’s not always the case. I want to hold the tower because it’s ours, it’s on our side or on our map and I try my everything to keep it that way. Why? Because I love siege warfare, because I love crashing castles and holding it to show for whom it belongs to. It’s not even remotely about PPT, I don’t give a kitten about it. I was initially pulled into WvW because of the style of warfare: fight for territory and structures, the very same thing that kept me hooked to Warhammer Online. And no, I do not hate open scale fights nor do I prefer to use siege in a fight. On the contrary, I enjoy small to large scale fights in the fields with nothing but sword and sorcery, but when those fights are dealth with, I want to keep pushing for that enemy keep or get back to tend to our keep. GvG? Do what you want, but don’t lump everyone that doesn’t agree with you as an enemy of your precious GvG.

Even Tera which is a crappy game imo noticed a dueling/gvg community without anyone pointing it out to them and took it apon themselves just to build a simple arena area outside town for people to do their thing in.

Why can’t Anet do the same?

Blix.8021:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

Seems a similar disillusion to cling to the notion that WvW is a balanced ground or mode for even tests of GvG skill. The balance is borked in WvW far more than sPVP even because they simply don’t care about it.

What GvG people should be asking for is separate arenas, where they have max capped stats – but hopefully with more options than amulets – and that Anet actually cares about constantly tweaking to keep things in line for various classes, skills, etc.

So that winning can actually become more about true skill or teamwork than simply finding and abusing the most imbalanced mechanics at any given time.

If GvG oriented guilds are so skillfull they might be able to level up the game from lowest tier servers if they really like challenges like they said. As they don’t care of PPT I don’t see why they pollute T1 servers they should give their room to people and guilds that like WvW and the contents related to WvW provided by Anet then instead of sabotaging it. If they don’t care of T1 ppt well T1 server don’t care of these guilds neithers: they are more like a plague litteraly…

Why did Anet name the game to Guildwars? Now when we are doing guild v guild they doing everything to stop it. The new bloodlust buff is like a nuclear blast destroing the GvG fights (even for the whole WvW where the stongest server gets even stronger). They even ignored the questions on thier last dev stream.

Anet if you hate guildfights so much why did you name the game Guildwars?
Anet why cant you just back down and give the players what they want? Maby an arena outside the WvW that doesent get effected buy the Bloodlust buff. Make a portal to a special place in one border (like the jumping puzzles) with spactator seats around it and name it to the Colosseum or something.

Or just change the buff so it just give Karma, WXP, Magicfind, +gold etc but still an arena would be soo awsome and you guys could make it magnificent with your designerskills….

Seen exactly the same arguments against duels/fightclub as GvG, before GvG was popular. From the same people even…

It always seems like the argument is either:
a. It’s not the intended way to play WvW. As if there’s an intended way.
b. Somehow a threat (sabatage) to the server. With some argument which just makes no sense.

Because clearly the most skilled PvPers and organized groups wanting an occasional competitive fight against their equals can’t also be dedicated WvW players as well!!! Wait what?…

So here’s an example from a different thread: “I wish they won’t allow anyone to turn the [orb] buff on and off. This is World vs World. 1v1 is SPvP.
GvG is.. well… not an option supported by Arena.Net yet… maybe in another game you will find what you are looking for.”

He’s arguing against a feature that will have no effect for him (option to turn the buff off for yourself). The only justification: “This is World vs World”… I would guess these people are threatened by the idea of competitive play in their battlefield.

Titan.3472:

If GvG oriented guilds are so skillfull they might be able to level up the game from lowest tier servers if they really like challenges like they said. As they don’t care of PPT I don’t see why they pollute T1 servers they should give their room to people and guilds that like WvW and the contents related to WvW provided by Anet then instead of sabotaging it. If they don’t care of T1 ppt well T1 server don’t care of these guilds neithers: they are more like a plague litteraly…

More of the same. GvG is a threat to WvW. Those players are contributing nothing, no, they’re actually sabotaging the server in WvW.

T1 must be a really odd place. Or maybe just Maguuma (well I know that already)… All the GvG guilds are filled with some of the most active and dedicated WvW players.

3 camps here:

- spvp’ers/skirmishers who THINK GvG doesnt require skill. it’s for scrubs who like to blend into a “zerg” to increase their chances of winning. GvG is boring to watch.

- GvG puritans / GW1 vets who are living in the past. how dare you call this GvG? only legit GvG is in GW1. they strictly refer to the gametype, not to its variations.

- WvW purists; GvG’ers arent playing the WvW game. they lower server PPT.

all 3 sides couldnt be more wrong. in high tier GvG, every player counts and knows his/her prof inside and out. if one falls, the entire guild can lose the match. and current GvG is a legit DM mode with an organically evolving metagame. GvG has a bigger following than spvp, is more interesting to watch, and has greater build diversity. i also find it much more fun to play. i was likely one of the first rank 35’s back in october, and i completely ditched spvp for WvW in January when i saw it was going nowhere. lastly, GvG guilds decrease PPT for their respective servers during the match, so it’s balanced. further, GvG guilds also bring the most PPT by annihilating pug zergs and taking whatever objectives they please; most GvG guilds spend most of their time in WvW GvZ’ing against pubs. the only difference is they bring the GvG meta to the table and brutally crush all pugs that get in the way.

mistsim.2748:

3 camps here:

- spvp’ers/skirmishers who THINK GvG doesnt require skill. it’s for scrubs who like to blend into a “zerg” to increase their chances of winning. GvG is boring to watch.

- GvG puritans / GW1 vets who are living in the past. how dare you call this GvG? only legit GvG is in GW1. they strictly refer to the gametype, not to its variations.

- WvW purists; GvG’ers arent playing the WvW game. they lower server PPT.

all 3 sides couldnt be more wrong. in high tier GvG, every player counts and knows his/her prof inside and out. if one falls, the entire guild can lose the match. and current GvG is a legit DM mode with an organically evolving metagame. GvG has a bigger following than spvp, is more interesting to watch, and has greater build diversity. i also find it much more fun to play. i was likely one of the first rank 35’s back in october, and i completely ditched spvp for WvW in January when i saw it was going nowhere. lastly, GvG guilds decrease PPT for their respective servers during the match, so it’s balanced. further, GvG guilds also bring the most PPT by annihilating pug zergs and taking whatever objectives they please; most GvG guilds spend most of their time in WvW GvZ’ing against pubs. the only difference is they bring the GvG meta to the table and brutally crush all pugs that get in the way.

This is a perfect example of someone with the kind of attitude and opinion that non gvg players don’t like(or even just people in general don’t like). Your opinions are expressed in poor taste and wrong in some respects. Your attitude toward other players that dont drink the kool aid you’re drink is terrible. This is why gvg players receive hostility or one of the main reasons. Im not against gvg. I do it from time to time as well as everything else.

I would say that the hostility come mainly because some GvG:er here on the forums more or less says: “We GvG:ers are the only ones that do useful stuff in WvW, the rest of you are unorganized and don’t help the server at all”, which more or less is to say that other people are useless.

lordkrall.7241:

I would say that the hostility come mainly because some GvG:er here on the forums more or less says: “We GvG:ers are the only ones that do useful stuff in WvW, the rest of you are unorganized and don’t help the server at all”, which more or less is to say that other people are useless.

Yep read above. There are those who are much worse though too. Most people don’t get too hostile over someone doing something else say over there. Its their bad interactions with said players that bother them the most.

There’s a lot of generalizations in this thread, coming from both sides of the argument. I personally have been following the GvG scene for a while now because I want to get started with them soon, and I feel like the real issue isn’t being touched here.

From what I’ve seen the GvG scene is a tight-knit, ambitious community that has to make the best out of a bad situation. With the lack of official support they searched for a sort of middle ground (by having the fights out of the way of ‘regular’ WvW, below south camp) but still has to deal with hits from the outside regularly (like the new buffs on the borderlands or people jumping in matches). There are people who put a lot of effort into making this work in a way that’s best for everyone, but keep facing new resistance after every step they make.

First of all, many of those who’re against GvGs seem to forget why these guilds do it: GvGs are about comparing each guild’s skill under equal circumstances. Even with the unbalanced or ‘overpowered’ builds available in the game, both sides can use that keeping things fair. These guilds pushing the envelope to crush their rival is part of what pushes the meta and helps design completely new playstyles.

Then why not PvP? Well, not only does PvP limit your freedom in builds, but more importantly it limits size. Size is very important in GvG as an important aspect of your success comes from different group compositions and larger scale tactics. Some builds only become viable if you scale them to a group setting larger than tPvP’s 8v8.
Additionally, it allows for more freedom. For example, having a thief to suppress the enemy periphery (free casters, ‘backline’ etc) only costs you 5% of your players in a 20v20 but 12.5% in a 8v8. It only becomes viable after a certain point.

Another reason many of these guilds play GvG is because – for them – PPT has lost its meaning. Depending on your tier, PPT is determined more by coverage than your server’s skill or tactics. If you cap everything during NA, but your opponents caps +400-450 during Oceanics and holds it during Euro, you lose even if you had stupidly high PPT in the NA slot. Playing GvG lets them compare their guild’s own strength to others in a way that coverage does not affect. The server you’re on no longer matters.

Why is it okay for them to do this in the borderlands? Well, why not? These players paid for the game, just like you did. So they have the right to play it however they want, as long as they are not breaking the EULA.
Right now, the area beneath south camp has proven to be out of the way most of the time, while being easily accessible for both servers involved in the fights (if they pick the 3rd server’s map they both have a waypoint right next to it). For these logistical reasons it’s the best place. As explained above, WvW maps are the only options because of the size element, so finding a spot that’s out of the way like they did is the best compromise for everyone.

But what if there’s a queue? Well, that doesn’t really make a difference. There’s nothing saying that in WvW you’re obligated to play PPT. It’s encouraged, sure, but in the end you’re free to do as you please. We’ve seen Arenanet say multiple times that people should be free to play however they want, so if these players don’t want to play PPT that’s their fair right. They have the same right to a slot on a map as any other player on your server, and how they use it is up to them.
The same argument can arguably be used to say that other people can play how they want to, too, so should be able to jump into the GvG fights as they please, but I think that doesn’t hold up for a very simple reason: you can play ‘regular’ WvW somewhere else, but a GvG cannot be done somewhere else (without being even more cumbersome). It’s mostly a matter of respect to your fellow players: they host their fights somewhere out of the way, and in return they ask you to let them fight each other for an hour or two (out of a 160+ hour match).

Because really, a guild might fight one or two GvGs a week, but that’s it. Out of the total playtime during a match, that’s a very small amount. Let’s keep things in perspective.

So to go back and answer the OP: Why so much hostility against GvGs?
I think it’s simply because many people
- don’t understand how little impact it has on their server’s score,
- don’t understand why these players GvG in the first place,
- forget that everyone is free (encouraged even) to play the game how they want to.
- GvG created the illusion of hurtful to their own options. (Time spent in GvGs and impact on score is actually negligible).

This GvG hating seems to be weird NA thing, maybe all the GvG guilds in T1 NA should just move to the lowest 3 servers. The amusing thing about that I imagine is that within a few months those bottom 3 servers would become the top 3 and all the hangers on would transfer there and start complaining about GvG affecting PPT :p

GvG guild… You all know only 20 players play in these matchs right?

My old guild used to be pretty big on our server : around 300 WvW focus players. One day we did a GvG for fun (which we won…) and we picked our 20 best warriors and the 280 others had to only watch at best.

So, I guess we could have called ourselves a GvG guild if we had continued to do that once a week… But, as I said before, only 20 players participate in this particular event…

My guild surely had a lot of impact on our WvW score and our server strength but saying that we were a GvG guild that had a big impact on our server strength just feel plain wrong. Saying that GvG guilds are the major factor in a server strength is just insulting to the others, not only the ones not in GvG guild but also to all those in the GvG guild that never or rarely get the chance to participate in said GvG event.

People that GvG are a tiny fraction of their own guild and an even tinier fraction of their server population. You just don’t represent enough number to have a real impact on WvW score.

It’s mostly like a mostiquo bitting a human. You are annoying and that’s it.

Gudradain.3892:

GvG guild… You all know only 20 players play in these matchs right?

My old guild used to be pretty big on our server : around 300 WvW focus players. One day we did a GvG for fun (which we won…) and we picked our 20 best warriors and the 280 others had to only watch at best.

So you had 300 people not only online but on a map? That’s cute.
If this story was any real, I’m sure any of you’re other 280 would be capable enough to lead the rest of your guild while you guys were GvGing though, right?

TCDJ.5378:

- forget that everyone is free (encouraged even) to play the game how they want to.

I actually agree with many of the points that you mentioned, but frankly, this goes both ways. At least in T1NA, a lot of the GvG guilds basically insult anyone who doesn’t GvG.

My guild has done some GvG before, but as a former GW1 guild, most of us are of the opinion that the current GvG is basically just a pale shadow of what it was. Now this isn’t the fault of any GvG players out there, but when other guilds claim that we are bads, or afraid to fight them because we don’t want to play their way, that’s when we have a problem.

So the bottom line is, I understand where you are coming from, and that GvG players get a lot of crap for what they are trying to do, but remember, that goes both ways. GvG players are quite frankly throwing stones from glass houses in a lot of cases when they make fun of the way other guilds wish to play, just keep that in mind.

Seems to be a lack of understanding here and something I did not clarify in my first post on this subject. We all know which guilds are heavy into the GvG and as mentioned most if not all of those groups contribute heavily to the PPT score. For the most part things can go on and nobody will care or even notice.

The friction arises when there is a major attack on the map you are on, be it Bl or EB and a good number of your people on that map are wrapped up in GvG. At this point in time, should you lose that upgraded keep and waypoint resentment against those that were on the map but did not come to defend is a natural human thing. It is not that they are not contributing to the point total, or helping out the server but they did not come when they were needed to support you.

That is why I mentioned that at that point in time the two groups are pursuing very different agendas and that is where the resentment kicks in. Getting points per kill is not the same as holding a fully upgraded keep. If those that want to GvG could balance that, even if it means dropping their GvG battle to go save that keep there would be no basis for that resentment. It makes it even worse when the person leading the GvG battle has his Commander tag up. Commanders are supposed to be able to analyze priorities and react accordingly but if that GvG battle rates higher on his list of priorities over an upgraded keep then resentment is natural.

Make sense?

Wryog.5073:

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

" You dont gain anything from winning" ? Do you have ANY clue whatsoever just how super sweet a 20% gathering bonus is? It is sooooo sweet, like raspberry chocolate ice cream being served by mila kunis while she is nekked bruh.

Aurust.8961:

Wryog.5073:

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

" You dont gain anything from winning" ? Do you have ANY clue whatsoever just how super sweet a 20% gathering bonus is? It is sooooo sweet, like raspberry chocolate ice cream being served by mila kunis while she is nekked bruh.

Wow, how could I forget such an extremely useful bonus?! I’m sorry, I don’t know what I was thinking when I posted that

Wryog.5073:

Aurust.8961:

Wryog.5073:

It’s usually either a)people who are loyal to their server or b) people who can’t let go of GW1.
I really don’t understand the first type since a huge part of the server doesn’t care about WvW. You don’t gain anything from winning and the scores aren’t affected as much as skill as WvW population and coverage. But hey, I guess it’s those people’s “thing”.
The second type really need to realise that this is a different game. For starters the professions have nothing to do with GW1, the PvP system is different, there’s only ONE sPvP game mode and there’s WvW. By now it should be obvious that GW2 isn’t a copy of GW1 and Anet don’t want it to be one.

" You dont gain anything from winning" ? Do you have ANY clue whatsoever just how super sweet a 20% gathering bonus is? It is sooooo sweet, like raspberry chocolate ice cream being served by mila kunis while she is nekked bruh.

Wow, how could I forget such an extremely useful bonus?! I’m sorry, I don’t know what I was thinking when I posted that

It is actually an epic bonus..multiple gathers on a mature herb node you say? a 5 second activity that you can do in wvw that could rake anything up to a shiny gold coin depending on what you get.

But the example I would have given is the 10% HP. Very, very useful and perhaps something people who say winning accomplishes nothing constantly overlook. Yes all servers gain these buffs but the wining server gains them at a faster pace. Kinda funny that people are crying about stat imbalance with the orb return but this Robust health % increase been adding imbalance for a long time. /shrug

i used to think gvg’s are bad for a server, then i tried it. it’s fun. probably the only reason why some of my guildies play gw2.

Polismassa.6740:

I actually agree with many of the points that you mentioned, but frankly, this goes both ways. At least in T1NA, a lot of the GvG guilds basically insult anyone who doesn’t GvG.

My guild has done some GvG before, but as a former GW1 guild, most of us are of the opinion that the current GvG is basically just a pale shadow of what it was. Now this isn’t the fault of any GvG players out there, but when other guilds claim that we are bads, or afraid to fight them because we don’t want to play their way, that’s when we have a problem.

So the bottom line is, I understand where you are coming from, and that GvG players get a lot of crap for what they are trying to do, but remember, that goes both ways. GvG players are quite frankly throwing stones from glass houses in a lot of cases when they make fun of the way other guilds wish to play, just keep that in mind.

I believe this to be the same opinion of many in T1 NA (that do not GvG). I had no idea SF was seeing the same hostility though.

Sovereign.1093:

i used to think gvg’s are bad for a server, then i tried it. it’s fun. probably the only reason why some of my guildies play gw2.

When Anet asks why the top tier (and I don’t mean server tier) guilds left this game and chose not to participate in this rookie atmosphere, it’s because of people like this guy. "used to think player vs player fights were bad for a server… It only took me a whole year and then some months to discover fighting actual players is more fun than sitting on some seige pressing 2 buttons and feeling “epic”.

Good god they couldn’t have created more of a “starter pvper’” atmosphere if they tried.

It’s pathetic all you zergers NOW want to fight players…. It’s only been a year and some.

Jscull.2514:

Sovereign.1093:

i used to think gvg’s are bad for a server, then i tried it. it’s fun. probably the only reason why some of my guildies play gw2.

When Anet asks why the top tier (and I don’t mean server tier) guilds left this game and chose not to participate in this rookie atmosphere, it’s because of people like this guy. "used to think player vs player fights were bad for a server… It only took me a whole year and then some months to discover fighting actual players is more fun than sitting on some seige pressing 2 buttons and feeling “epic”.

Good god they couldn’t have created more of a “starter pvper’” atmosphere if they tried.

It’s pathetic all you zergers NOW want to fight players…. It’s only been a year and some.

It’s pathetic that you still come to these forums to talk kitten after you left the game. Do you have nothing better to do with your time than go to forums of games you don’t play?

Zergs are Good.

Zergs are Tasty.

Zergs fill our Belly.

People who complain about Zergs are Baddies.

L2P.

True Roamers love killing Teh Zerg.

Please don’t take away the zergs. I’ll call PETA

celeron.3469:

Polismassa.6740:

I actually agree with many of the points that you mentioned, but frankly, this goes both ways. At least in T1NA, a lot of the GvG guilds basically insult anyone who doesn’t GvG.

My guild has done some GvG before, but as a former GW1 guild, most of us are of the opinion that the current GvG is basically just a pale shadow of what it was. Now this isn’t the fault of any GvG players out there, but when other guilds claim that we are bads, or afraid to fight them because we don’t want to play their way, that’s when we have a problem.

So the bottom line is, I understand where you are coming from, and that GvG players get a lot of crap for what they are trying to do, but remember, that goes both ways. GvG players are quite frankly throwing stones from glass houses in a lot of cases when they make fun of the way other guilds wish to play, just keep that in mind.

I believe this to be the same opinion of many in T1 NA (that do not GvG). I had no idea SF was seeing the same hostility though.

We haven’t seen it much lately, and frankly we’ve worked with several great GvG guilds such as DA, Pro and RG that we have a ton of respect for. There are some guilds in T1NA who perpetuate the “GvG or GTFO” mentality that frankly is a cancer in the community. It’s a lot like being a vegetarian, I have no problem with anyone who chooses to be vegetarian, but when you start shoving your ideals in my face and demeaning me for not agreeing, then you become a problem.