Guild Wars 2

Blix.8021:

Lord Kuru.3685:

But why all the hostility. GvG’ers and PPT players don’t have conflicting goals at all — each group can just pretend the other group isn’t there — UNLESS it’s a queue issue. But if it’s a queue issue, why don’t the GvG people just transfer to the queue-less lower tiers?

People who GvG also WvW, usually looking for a large zerg to go kill. Those zergs only exist in tiers 1-2, and maybe sometimes in tier 3. If you put even a mediocre GvG guild in a tier 4 or lower server, they would just roflstomp anything in their way and end up PvDooring an entire BL because the lower tier servers offer no comparable competition.

Read again. When all (pretending) GvG guilds transfer to lower tiers, there WILL be more than enough competition. Every low tier server will be full of guilds. You could even ignore all buildings, so the matchup ends in a draw and all servers stay “low”. Tho the matchup system would screw that up anyway.

Titan.3472:

If GvG oriented guilds are so skillfull they might be able to level up the game from lowest tier servers if they really like challenges like they said.

Been there, done that. Next?

I sometimes play GvG, but as i’m alone in my guild, i GvG other people with my Warrior, which is the best GvG class also, I don’t loose often, but if i do i still win, or reroll guardian !.
And you what’s your game ?

mistsim.2748:

3 camps here:

- spvp’ers/skirmishers who THINK GvG doesnt require skill. it’s for scrubs who like to blend into a “zerg” to increase their chances of winning. GvG is boring to watch.

- GvG puritans / GW1 vets who are living in the past. how dare you call this GvG? only legit GvG is in GW1. they strictly refer to the gametype, not to its variations.

- WvW purists; GvG’ers arent playing the WvW game. they lower server PPT.

all 3 sides couldnt be more wrong. in high tier GvG, every player counts and knows his/her prof inside and out. if one falls, the entire guild can lose the match. and current GvG is a legit DM mode with an organically evolving metagame. GvG has a bigger following than spvp, is more interesting to watch, and has greater build diversity. i also find it much more fun to play. i was likely one of the first rank 35’s back in october, and i completely ditched spvp for WvW in January when i saw it was going nowhere. lastly, GvG guilds decrease PPT for their respective servers during the match, so it’s balanced. further, GvG guilds also bring the most PPT by annihilating pug zergs and taking whatever objectives they please; most GvG guilds spend most of their time in WvW GvZ’ing against pubs. the only difference is they bring the GvG meta to the table and brutally crush all pugs that get in the way.

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Actually I don’t want people do GvG on WvW maps. I prefer that good guilds in T1 servers (the servers I play).

But, at the same time, I like the idea of GvG, I think is good some guilds want to fight. ArenaNet could add “custom arenas” for this and problem solved. Actually only one arena would be enough, not need for fancy graphics or anything, just an arena like sPvP ones but with an open field and no capture points, 20vs20 (configurable). // I don’t GvG, just improvising.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Actually I don’t want people do GvG on WvW maps. I prefer that good guilds in T1 servers (the servers I play).

But, at the same time, I like the idea of GvG, I think is good some guilds want to fight. ArenaNet could add “custom arenas” for this and problem solved. Actually only one arena would be enough, not need for fancy graphics or anything, just an arena like sPvP ones but with an open field and no capture points, 20vs20 (configurable). // I don’t GvG, just improvising.

I think this is what most GvG guilds want, but until we get that WvW will have to do.

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

That are my top 3 problems with those players….

Imho AN should slice a borderland into 4 own maps and put them into the Custom arenas (maybe extra rent fee in gem shop to support?) to let guilds play their 100vs100 in a really competetive way …?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Why? (I don’t do GvG.)

Is it because they don’t contribute to ppt and cause ppt players to be stuck in the queue and thus hurt the performance of their server?

If this is the case, GvG players would do well to move to the lower tiers where there are no queues except possible for a few hours on reset.

Everybody wins in this case. Low tier servers get some population and GvGers can GvG.

It’s just the vocal minority barking on messageboards, nothing more nothing less. Peruse through all the other MMO game forums and you will no doubt feel the same vibe…………

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.

Zephyrus.9680:

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

I want to hear what the current Meta for GvG is, and how it has evolved…If you can describe it i’d love to hear it.

Because half of the classes are useless for GvG.

Xsorus.2507:

Zephyrus.9680:

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

…

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

Why should he? Just watch some of the top GvG guilds, how they try to counter each other and develop their tactics and comp.

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

I want to hear what the current Meta for GvG is, and how it has evolved…If you can describe it i’d love to hear it.

Off topic and I don’t spectate a lot of GvGs but ok. From what I’ve seen, guardian and warrior-heavy hammer stability trains are the big thing. But it may be moving more towards necros as a counter to stability which could also lead to eles as DPS backlines rather than support. Stability does seem overpowering in the GvG meta from the matches I’ve seen.

Edragor.9164:

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

That are my top 3 problems with those players….

Imho AN should slice a borderland into 4 own maps and put them into the Custom arenas (maybe extra rent fee in gem shop to support?) to let guilds play their 100vs100 in a really competetive way …?

When have any of those things actually happened?

The game just needs a seperate gvg arena/zone and gvg championships in somewhere else. This is “guild wars” so, we want guild wars

Edragor.9164:

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

That are my top 3 problems with those players….

Imho AN should slice a borderland into 4 own maps and put them into the Custom arenas (maybe extra rent fee in gem shop to support?) to let guilds play their 100vs100 in a really competetive way …?

I have never, ever seen this happen.

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

Edragor.9164:

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

I have never seen or heard that happen.

The hostility against GvG is coming from a few different things.

First, some believe that GvG´ers are filling up the maps without contributing. Since all Guilds that do GvG are also doing WvW this is clearly wrong. The guild i am in is also doing GvG and before and after the matches we raid normaly, capture towers / camps etc. So we are contributing most of the time.

Second and that´s imo the biggest issue. GvG guilds are hardcore wvw players and GvG guilds are a strong force on the battlefield. Sometimes they wipe enemy zergs even when they are outnumbered by far. Then people get frustrated and while they can´t do anything on the field against them they come to the forums crying about how “elitist” they are and that GvG is ruining their fun. The main hostility imo comes in short from one thing and that´s jealousy.

I have no hostility towards gvg itself and I think gvg is a perfectly valid way to enjoy the game. I have a lot of frustration for certain gvg people who constantly assert theirs is the only or best way to play, and claim big guilds are the only thing having an effect on wvw right now. Too often I see forum complaints that the devs aren’t supporting gvg so they’re “ignoring 90% of hardcore players” and I find that assertion tedious. I also get tired of the spam during dev streams.

I have said this before and I will be happy to say it again:

20vs20 GvG is an easy way for casuals to feel competitive to an extend.

Let them have their way. Who cares about PVT heroes? They do not harm anyone.

The attentionwhoreing undermining everybody else is annoying though.

-Stream about Ascended stuff: I could not care less, but all you could read was GvG Spam. Period.
-Stream at PAX: I was interested in the NA/EU kittenwars and all I could read was “raise your Teldos” and GvG again.

Attentiongriefers. At best.

Many things are being done great by Devon and Ruby + Team to make WvW more enjoyable, split the Zergs and add rewards even a PvPer has use for. I really dont want to see any ressources wasted for Zerging V_2.1 to please people that dont give a cold snot about the people that actually want to watch the stream they keep sabotaging. You know, the other 99,9% of the playerbase.

GvGers meet wherever you want and do what you want, but stop putting yourselves above everyone. Funniest thing is Ogro comparing them to the Jews during Holocaust. As a German I found this very disturbing and ridiculous. Not mentioning that by behavior patterns you would play the other part of the story.

Zumy.6318:

I have said this before and I will be happy to say it again:

20vs20 GvG is an easy way for casuals to feel competitive to an extend.

Let them have their way. Who cares about PVT heroes? They do not harm anyone.

The attentionwhoreing undermining everybody else is annoying though.

-Stream about Ascended stuff: I could not care less, but all you could read was GvG Spam. Period.
-Stream at PAX: I was interested in the NA/EU kittenwars and all I could read was “raise your Teldos” and GvG again.

Attentiongriefers. At best.

Many things are being done great by Devon and Ruby + Team to make WvW more enjoyable, split the Zergs and add rewards even a PvPer has use for. I really dont want to see any ressources wasted for Zerging V_2.1 to please people that dont give a cold snot about the people that actually want to watch the stream they keep sabotaging. You know, the other 99,9% of the playerbase.

GvGers meet wherever you want and do what you want, but stop putting yourselves above everyone. Funniest thing is Ogro comparing them to the Jews during Holocaust. As a German I found this very disturbing and ridiculous. Not mentioning that by behavior patterns you would play the other part of the story.

Zumy, you are right – to an extend too :P

I fully support the GvG movement even though wasn’t involved myself in it until recently. However I don’t like the attitude of part of the ‘community’ – Spam, grief, elitism, looking over the shoulder to the rest is the part I hate – which also exists on the other side of argument (and hate them too – i like to overuse hate, makes sharing love more meaningful)

Behaving with respect, GvG is a neat solution to have some fun for 1-2h when heavily outnumbered all week (or outnumbering). Its a fun way to fight some frenemies with equal numbers for a couple of fights.

These guys trying to promote GvG and having no consideration for other players focused wvw has made haste grow and definetely the GvG oriented people are NOT the majority of the playerbase. If they had shown some respect and not act like wet noodles that feel hard it wouldn’t happened. I definetely was in the first GvG movement when there was not so many people and braggers about how the best skillfull players they are : no you are not : some spvp oriented players, some pve people mastering fotm knows better team play and composition as some wvw players also do: GvG oriented people don’t have any specific skills sorry but they need to realise this someday and start to learn to show consideration and respect first. to people that are playing other contents. They may believe to be the Aryans of GW2 lololololol.
The actual spirit of GvG had at starts has been corrupted by the same people that in any situation has no respect to others.

mistsim.2748:

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Thanks for clearing that up.

I roamed once or twice with AoN by the way, and that was actual Small manning, as in less then 10.

It certainly wasn’t 20 people.

By the way, this is why most people don’t look at GvG as anything amazing

I can’t tell if a single person in that video is any good or not at PvP.

Its one giant gobble of effect mess…Which to be fair, isn’t the players complete fault, a lot of it has to do with the gaudy effect system of GW2.

Xsorus.2507:

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

The meta is basically this. There will be a Mesmer there for Veil & Timewarp depending on the groups meta but this is pretty much it. Depending on the size of the GvG, some guilds might use Thieves, D/D Elementalists or Sniper Warriors to either help the group buff or help burst down single targets. The GvG meta will never change much because Guardians are the pillar of group support and trumps every profession in this regard and Staff Elementalists will provide 2 waters for the group to heal on not including the other tools such as: AoE damage and CC.

AydenStar.4216:

Xsorus.2507:

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

The meta is basically this. There will be a Mesmer there for Veil & Timewarp depending on the groups meta but this is pretty much it. Depending on the size of the GvG, some guilds might use Thieves, D/D Elementalists or Sniper Warriors to either help the group buff or help burst down single targets. The GvG meta will never change much because Guardians are the pillar of group support and trumps every profession in this regard and Staff Elementalists will provide 2 waters for the group to heal on not including the other tools such as: AoE damage and CC.

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

The fact is that a gvg guild is only good for a server where they are on:

1: There are less ppl needed to be in a border to whipe a blob.
2: Because you only need a good guildgroup to whipe a blob there is more space for your that only play wvw about points.
3: The complains about ques are just stupid because a gvg takes max 2 hours and after a gvg the guild will go back to ’’normal’’ wvw raiding to help the server get points and defend stuff when needed.

and Xsorus the video that you linked is from rg you probably know that. You say that you dont see if they are good ’’pvp’’ players but those guys whipe every blob that they see whit only around 20-30 ppl all of them are very skilled. And those ppl that play wvw for the points and run mindless behind a commander are the worst pvp players around because there is realy no skill in spamming 1.

And to all the other ppl that think that gvg is just a game of who can spam there autoattack the best should just make a group of like 50 ppl and fight a 25 man raid group of guilds like [scnd] or [VII] than you can see that you will get killed and that there is more skill in gvg than you think there is.

LilMcGinley.3890:

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

LOL, its like asking me what a Ranger brings to a zerg, I’ll chew your ear off but I know what our limits are compared to our professions. Its the truth, what is the point of the Mesmer in a GvG other than Veil or Timewarp? A GvG group will only need one Mesmer, hell a zerg of 40+ only really need one/two Mesmers. I play a Mesmer and I understand there group mechanics and the are very limited and pigeonhole to a few gimmicky skills in WvW large group play.

xandermander.4810:

The fact is that a gvg guild is only good for a server where they are on:

1: There are less ppl needed to be in a border to whipe a blob.
2: Because you only need a good guildgroup to whipe a blob there is more space for your that only play wvw about points.
3: The complains about ques are just stupid because a gvg takes max 2 hours and after a gvg the guild will go back to ’’normal’’ wvw raiding to help the server get points and defend stuff when needed.

and Xsorus the video that you linked is from rg you probably know that. You say that you dont see if they are good ’’pvp’’ players but those guys whipe every blob that they see whit only around 20-30 ppl all of them are very skilled. And those ppl that play wvw for the points and run mindless behind a commander are the worst pvp players around because there is realy no skill in spamming 1.

And to all the other ppl that think that gvg is just a game of who can spam there autoattack the best should just make a group of like 50 ppl and fight a 25 man raid group of guilds like [scnd] or [VII] than you can see that you will get killed and that there is more skill in gvg than you think there is.

They could be good for all I know, but watching that video, You will never be able to figure out any actual skill in that video. Its an unwatchable mess because of the way Effects are in this game…I mean here is how bad it is..I can’t even tell you how many people they’re fighting vs how many they have..That’s 10 vs 10 i think? maybe 15vs15..

The 20 vs 20 is even worse

Answser:

Because GvG seperates the WvW community, and will destroy the whole WvW concept.

Thank you guys! You guys are so awesome for doing GvG!

AydenStar.4216:

LilMcGinley.3890:

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

LOL, its like asking me what a Ranger brings to a zerg, I’ll chew your ear off but I know what our limits are compared to our professions. Its the truth, what is the point of the Mesmer in a GvG other than Veil or Timewarp? A GvG group will only need one Mesmer, hell a zerg of 40+ only really need one/two Mesmers. I play a Mesmer and I understand there group mechanics and the are very limited and pigeonhole to a few gimmicky skills in WvW large group play.

Like I said go talk to them. That mesmer helped [EP] destroy casters during the fights I watched. they aren’t there for “just veil and timewarp”…

That vid is just horrible melee spam.

LilMcGinley.3890:

AydenStar.4216:

LilMcGinley.3890:

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

LOL, its like asking me what a Ranger brings to a zerg, I’ll chew your ear off but I know what our limits are compared to our professions. Its the truth, what is the point of the Mesmer in a GvG other than Veil or Timewarp? A GvG group will only need one Mesmer, hell a zerg of 40+ only really need one/two Mesmers. I play a Mesmer and I understand there group mechanics and the are very limited and pigeonhole to a few gimmicky skills in WvW large group play.

Like I said go talk to them. That mesmer helped [EP] destroy casters during the fights I watched. they aren’t there for “just veil and timewarp”…

And how many Mesmers do they bring?

AydenStar.4216:

LilMcGinley.3890:

AydenStar.4216:

LilMcGinley.3890:

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

LOL, its like asking me what a Ranger brings to a zerg, I’ll chew your ear off but I know what our limits are compared to our professions. Its the truth, what is the point of the Mesmer in a GvG other than Veil or Timewarp? A GvG group will only need one Mesmer, hell a zerg of 40+ only really need one/two Mesmers. I play a Mesmer and I understand there group mechanics and the are very limited and pigeonhole to a few gimmicky skills in WvW large group play.

Like I said go talk to them. That mesmer helped [EP] destroy casters during the fights I watched. they aren’t there for “just veil and timewarp”…

And how many Mesmers do they bring?

I’m not in [EP].. so… umm 7? It’s not about how many, you say they are “pigeonholed” into being there strictly for veil and timewarp which isn’t true.

To be on topic: Orb-ageddon is going to be fun to watch unfold. Over/under on thread count on Day 1? 15.5 is my guess.

Generally, the best in GvG are the best in WvW.

Lose your GvG guilds, lose your highest contributing guilds.

LilMcGinley.3890:

I’m not in [EP].. so… umm 7? It’s not about how many, you say they are “pigeonholed” into being there strictly for veil and timewarp which isn’t true.

What I am saying is that a hardcore guild based on optimizing there group make-up only needs a (1) Mesmer for a few skills and that is it.

In this video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bdq0WBHVhg

You realize why a groups want necros for the AoE damage, dark field and fears yet I don’t see much phantasms or glamor fields in that play although the EP commander called for Timewarp a few times.

Real question is, if you are boss in WvW, what would you gain doing GvG ? Nothing but feeling skillful is probably the answer

Veteran Oakheart.4035:

Real question is, if you are boss in WvW, what would you gain doing GvG ? Nothing but feeling skillful is probably the answer

LOL, most players need a sense of accomplishment.

Blix.8021:

While most sane people stopped caring about the score a year ago, some still cling to the notion that WvW is a competitive game type with PPT being the indicator of success or failure. You’ve seen them, the crazy people who want to hold a tower “for the tick,” as if matters. Those are the types who don’t like GvG.

Because of people like this. Generalizing and demeaning to those that don’t play the way they want them to.

Sometimes, I will spend a half hour or so justing running around mining nodes, getting pois on an alt, cooling down after a 5v20 battle.

If 20 people in my guild did that same thing over the course of a week, this would be the equivalent detriment to the sever of a GvG (potententially taking up que slots and not contributing to ppt). When we talk about the “huge impact” of GvGs, I think we need to keep it in perspective.

The only thing GvG players have asked for in terms of WvW is to not have the new orb mechanic include a stat bonus. Bare in mind it’s not just GvG players who are worried about this stat buff – there are legitimate concerns about snowballing, and the effect it could have on duels (a feature sorely lacking in pve). There have been many reasonable alternatives proposed, such as voluntary buff removal, or changing the buff to effect magic find/karma or Npcs/structures/siege.

GvG players would welcome their own map and game mode, but currently there seems to be no move on anet’s part to develop it. They also see wvw development preceding in a direction that discourages open field battles and encourages pvd. Some of the backlash has been a bit over the top, but the frustration comes from a genuine love and passion for the game. They dont want to see an exciting new community driven scene singlehanded squashed by the bloodlust change, if there might be a slightly different change that would be just as good for wvw.

ANet doesn’t have the willingness nor the resources to support GvG. The sheer fact that we GvGers exist exemplifies a failure in core game design. We have Guilds, we have meaningless stuff to do in PvE with guilds, but there remains no outlet for PvP with guilds. Since sPvP is build restricted, numbers limited, and centralized on a “who can stand in circles better” mechanic, it forces the players and Guilds to do one of two things: ¹ Quit the game for its failure to service our PvP endgame criteria or ² take the initiative to do on our own what ANet cannot in WvW.

ANet failed all of us in its design. To not have things in place for PvP guilds to PvP against other PvP guilds using all the game has to offer in terms of larger groups, build diversity, and gear options, in a controlled environment, created the current unhealthy relationship between PPT groups and the GvG scene.

Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

violentlycar.5267:

Edragor.9164:

- GvGer asking in map chat others to leave the map…because some of their guildies dont get in…
- GvGers obstructing a map with their numbers without contributing in the slightest, not careing for towers, camps etc….while score goes down and down and…
- GvGers want to make our beloved WvWvW into WvW

That are my top 3 problems with those players….

Imho AN should slice a borderland into 4 own maps and put them into the Custom arenas (maybe extra rent fee in gem shop to support?) to let guilds play their 100vs100 in a really competetive way …?

I have never, ever seen this happen.

I have, several times.

I do hope we have 10v10 arenas we can class as GvG, and yes Guild frickin halls (pass the pipe bro). Like any esport with our home field. Dude my koolaid is empty, I need some more, its next to the silver trimmed cape over there, can you pass it to me?

Who cares what anyone thinks? let the devs dev a game for us to play, if your feelings are hurt in a virtual world, you may be too into it. I GvG and could care less how others feel, they can stay, watch, play or pass by, or even tell me to f off I’m hurting there little bubble of reality. Likewise, they do things and I don’t expect them to consider my feelings before there actions. Just do what you want when you want and have fun. I like the generalizations of players here though. It’s funny.

In all honesty, I can see the next major release including something like this so we willingly want to pitch in our money over to them. Why not? I’d pay another box price just to have a real avenue for GvG, including ghalls & ladder.

passes it to the left

PS I’m a firm believer that our so called 15v15 or 20v20 is too large. 15 should be tops, but 10 is the perfect GvG number. It’s all about the maps, and strats or should be. Not about the rugby teams lining up and hitting heads together.

LilMcGinley.3890:

AydenStar.4216:

LilMcGinley.3890:

You should talk to the mesmer from [EP] and tell him he/she is just there for Veil and Time warp.. see how that goes over.

LOL, its like asking me what a Ranger brings to a zerg, I’ll chew your ear off but I know what our limits are compared to our professions. Its the truth, what is the point of the Mesmer in a GvG other than Veil or Timewarp? A GvG group will only need one Mesmer, hell a zerg of 40+ only really need one/two Mesmers. I play a Mesmer and I understand there group mechanics and the are very limited and pigeonhole to a few gimmicky skills in WvW large group play.

Like I said go talk to them. That mesmer helped [EP] destroy casters during the fights I watched. they aren’t there for “just veil and timewarp”…

After just facing EP, thinking a mesmer is JUST there for the veil and timewarp is silly. They are there for many other reasons. From an outsiders pov GvGing might be a waste of time and might not contribute as much as other players looking to “increase/hold PPT”. The truth is that most GvG guilds play wvw to kill other players rather than sitting in towers because playing the PPT game burns people out. I mean who wouldn’t want that feeling of accomplishment when you wipe a 60 man zerg with 20 people?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Why? (I don’t do GvG.)

Is it because they don’t contribute to ppt and cause ppt players to be stuck in the queue and thus hurt the performance of their server?

If this is the case, GvG players would do well to move to the lower tiers where there are no queues except possible for a few hours on reset.

Everybody wins in this case. Low tier servers get some population and GvGers can GvG.

That is a big part, the other part is I am not on a role playing server and gvg is nothing but a bunch of role-players who are not helping their server out. Let them go back to dueling out side orgrimmar.

And with the addition of leagues I hope their are some serious penalty’s put on the players who are ruing WvW in that manner.

One reason for the animosity is that a certain section of the playerbase doesn’t understand that not all zergs are created equal. They don’t see the differences between their big pug and an organized group. Many times, they haven’t been in a smaller organized group and been able to push/wipe larger groups with better tactics and play. It’s all a massive blur to them.

So because a none too small percentage of the population doesn’t have experience or cannot parse the battlefield, the very idea of GvG is silly to them.

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Did you even read the text you quoted?

Zephyrus.9680:

Xsorus.2507:

mistsim.2748:

Xsorus.2507:

Describe the current GvG meta and how it has evolved

i doubt i can convey all the details, but it basically started with warrior hammer trains exerting tremendous aoe CC. then Red Guard discovered how to beat the game by stacking mostly PVT guards for perma stability and better sustain, a couple of hammer warriors, and a few very talented casters. this change in meta in turn encouraged everyone to bring out more power wellmancers and glassy backliners to melt the guardian powerline. and finally, we have now seen a very FUN meta evolution of backline pressure and periphery play, which involves other specs with sole purpose of eliminating the backliners.

where it’s gonna go next is very interesting, but as i said, it keeps evolving. now you humour me, and describe how the spvp and WvW duel metas havent DEvolved.

Xsorus.2507:

Because none of the videos are distinguishable from pugs zerging one another.

watch some of ogre’s GvG reports. top GvG’ers are probably some of the best pvpers in the game, and they have to know their profs inside and out. some of the best ones spend most of their time dueling and small ganging in WvW. the jousts place more emphasis on cohesion and altruism, instead of just lookin’ out for #1 (yourself). there are many maneuvers to master and when kitten hits the fan as it often does, if youre not a good pvper, you will get melted. lots of guilds try to emulate this organization and sometimes even fall apart attempting. you should know how hard this can be just from your roams with AoN (which i believe u did a while back?). in all honesty, i think a lot of new guilds fall apart when they try to emulate this when people arent ready, because the atmosphere can seem so rigid and elitist unless everyone is on the exact same page.

but only few are very good at this. perhaps youve only watched the lower tier guilds in action? i didnt enjoy watching GvG’s until i took part in some myself, and then i started seeing techniques and maneuvers i didnt see before.

GvG is just another way of playing the game. it’s the next level of GvZ, just like tournaments were the next level of hotjoin a while back.

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Did you even read the text you quoted?

He did, he’s just disregarding it in an offhand manner in an attempt to trivialize otherwise valid information.

The fact he even asked for the information in the first place, only to disregard it right off the bat pretty much means he’s either an opinionated “dolores umbridge” type or a troll.

In both cases, just ignore it and it will go away.

Xsorus.2507:

So the meta hasn’t changed.

The meta has always been Hammer Warriors/Guardians/Necro’s with a few Elementalist.

Thanks for clearing that up.

we’re actually seeing glass thieves, glass mesmers, rifle warriors as part of the newer meta. EP guild seems to run the greatest variety of builds and theyre the most successful atm. this has evolved organically. just like guard-heavy comp evolved out of warrior hammer trains as a response. and just like power wellmancers evolved out of that.

so 1: you missed 2 profs 1 of which is absolutely necessary and the other which is a bonus, and 2: all i said is that the meta evolved toward the better, as in more specs and different comps are being used now compared to last year. spvp meta has been forced to change for the worse.

and that vid u posted i could do a play-by-play for you, and tell you exactly what everyone is doing and who the baddies are. but i doubt you’d appreciate my time. maybe it’s just me but i find gvg’s much more entertaining to watch compared to duels and spvp. e-sports is so 2012.

Mooodster.3470:

well have you read some of the gvgers posts? calling people noobs scrubs and numerous other names generally doesnt make whoever your talking about the happiest person in the world….spamming wvw streams with gvg so people with honest question actually related to wvw cant ask them doesn’t help…

i know its not just the gvgers and the non gvgers say plenty of things themselves so hopefully that answers your question

ps i do hope that the gvgers get there own arena just so that the community can stop being divided over some issues (blood lust anyone)

Yes, this is an important factor in the hostility between the gvgers and wvwers. For the gvg, if you do not like gvg, its because you are bad, skillness and similar, what is wrong if I dont like run a hammer train with some eles spaming water fields on me -think the wvw players.

armorcrafter.5934:

This basically they same debate that existed when I played DAOC.

If you want to GvG, fine play your way and I’ll play mine.

BUT…

What am I supposed to do when I get rolled by the enemy GvG team that’s supposedly in WvW “just for the fights”?? When the enemy GvG team is flipping our camps & towers even thought they here “just for the fights”??

You see the problem it presents. On one hand you want to be left alone to “have good fights” so then you should only be running through a BL to your fight club location and leaving everything and everyone else alone.

That rarely happens.

LOL that happened to me, I saw a full guild heading to the designed GvG place and like in any other ocation when Im not on a zerg and see 1 zerg group is heading to me I tryed to position to avoid the combat (or my dead better written) but then I read, don’t worry that guild is doing GvG, so I did not run far enough of them, just to get smashed like 20v1

So yes, it happens and a lot, they want the most absolute of the respect in their battles, but if they feel in mood, while they running to their battles they can crash any small group they find