Guild Wars 2

some of us are getting bored of the current WvW meta of zerg this, zerg that (no not from dying to zergs, but from our only food being stragglers trying to get to them).

Would there not be interest from those who run <10 on a daily/nightly basis to consolidate to a single pretty static tier, like the bottom? If just 9 groups were up for this in a single prime time slot, that would leave us with 3 per server. It would allow us to keep the fun of unknown roaming, as opposed to organized GvGs, as well.

Please note I am focused on NA prime time.

im on EU server at EU prime time I guess. but if this was arranged would switch to NA.

If this project were to catch on with any timezone, I’m sure growth would naturally follow to others. IE if you had 9-10 EUs transfer then NAs start to follow it becomes known as the designated small man operation tier/servers without a particular time zone. It would be boosting WvW numbers but for a different purpose than those who recruit guilds to T1.

You might actually want to look at tiers 4-6 on NA since there is a lot of roaming and smaller group fights that go on at the BLs. I mean you’ll run into zergs, but most won’t be larger than 20-30 players, which could actually be a fun challenge for your havoc teams. Well, just some food for thought for you.

<3 has off my octopus aka iQ

Anything from tiers 3-8 has alot of roaming in the borderlands, EB is till predominantly zerging but in the bl’s i know tier 4 you won’t find a group over 30 people, mostly multiple groups of 20 or so during reset.

How about an entirely different proposal?
Bundle all those guilds and groups in the weakest of all servers and once this server reaches the top tier with guerilla tactics, the entire meta will have shifted.

Talent, I’m the GM of PAXA. We run 5-7 guys a night with the intention and purpose soley to kill players. We are interested. I’m already talking with leader of OINK and hopefully AD. Those guys are all solid. I think your head is in the right direction. Count PAXA in.

I’m at the only burger joint in a town full of pizza parlors.
I want pizza but the burger place only laughs.
Wtf plzhalp

tier 7 perhaps has one of the largest roaming pops atm

Hello sirs. We’ve been talking on and about this with paxa and I’d like to throw out tier 6 as an option.

Right now on DR there is us, AD, BSty, NoQQ who all run small groups. If we could get a few groups on each other server in the matchup it would be some good competition.

My only concern is that I don’t know how stable the tier is. Its been the same for nearly 2 months but a shakeu kitten upposed to happen soon.

Acelerion.6820:

Hello sirs. We’ve been talking on and about this with paxa and I’d like to throw out tier 6 as an option.

Right now on DR there is us, AD, BSty, NoQQ who all run small groups. If we could get a few groups on each other server in the matchup it would be some good competition.

My only concern is that I don’t know how stable the tier is. Its been the same for nearly 2 months but a shakeu kitten upposed to happen soon.

DR definitely does have some good roamers, we all mostly work together when the numbers start to become overwhelming. We are going to drop soon, possibly this week due to commanders being tired of being double teamed. I would love to try out tier 7 soon once we fall to it!

We’ve been in tier 7 against NSP for 2 months. I can honestly say as a hardcore driver for our 5 man you guys would NOT like it. When PAXA was on NSP there was 5-6 guilds ran under 10 everyday. We switched to fight those guilds, which have now molded into the Zerg. Trust a fellow small manner, where NSP is, it’s bad for small man business. I’m not trash talkin, just being honest. In fact, PAXA has been collectively talking about a change along with accel from OINK. I’m thinking we aim for the tier that has AD noQQ and Btsy as they are consistent. Tier 7 is NOT a small man haven anymore. If it was I would be inviting you guys here.

We have talked about this a fair bit, the issue is that no tiers are static and all it takes is some new stupid alliance to decide they want to be the next big do over, or people bailing from a server just because it is going down a tier, etc to cause tiers to get messed up.

You would need to have a pot of money available so that you could re-evaluate your tier and help pay for the guilds on the server that is dropping/rising out of the tier of choice all the time. Pain in the kitten, was more viable before free transfers ended.

I agree with this statement Niim. I can tell you this, at this point PAXA is willing to help anyway we can to make this tier thing happen. Maybe we get a head count of all the 5 mans entering into this system and set up a voice chat meet. We discuss the best way to make this happen. I’m thinking each guild keeps a certain amount of in game gold on them at all times as a (sinking server pot) for those guilds that will need to hop servers to come back to the two that are not moving? Not a bad idea. Thoughts guys?

We would be glad to help fund transfers

It is a possibility that DR drops a tier next week. The most stable choice over time is T8. That way it’s only possible for a server to move up to leave the tier. It’s not possible for a server to move down to leave the tier. It’s also very hard for a server to break out of T8 unless the devs strongarm it or a server comes crashing down.

It looks like HoD is headed for T8 eventually.

With that said: AD, BSty, and NoQQ work together but are still very much separate guilds. We discussed moving when there were free transfers and some did not want to move. We are pretty much in the position that if one of us does not want to move then none of us will move.

I just see nothing but headaches on trying to get it to work. Some kind of transfer pool would be necessary (but used less often in T8 in theory). Also, a guild that transfers loses all of their guild perks. ;(

Talentless.5708:

some of us are getting bored of the current WvW meta of zerg this, zerg that (no not from dying to zergs, but from our only food being stragglers trying to get to them).

Would there not be interest from those who run <10 on a daily/nightly basis to consolidate to a single pretty static tier, like the bottom? If just 9 groups were up for this in a single prime time slot, that would leave us with 3 per server. It would allow us to keep the fun of unknown roaming, as opposed to organized GvGs, as well.

Please note I am focused on NA prime time.

You should arrange this on Anvil Rock for NA, or Desolation for EU, the dominant sPvP servers.

Anvil Rock would probably be better since Desolation is already a T1 zergy EU server, AR is T5 and from what I’ve heard, plays WvW the way they play sPvP – small groups of highly skilled roamers.

Would be cool to build on that foundation and make server full of 24/7 coverage of disruption squads.

naphack.9346:

How about an entirely different proposal?
Bundle all those guilds and groups in the weakest of all servers and once this server reaches the top tier with guerilla tactics, the entire meta will have shifted.

This. A server full of small group tactics would be crazy, imagine the zerg population trying to counter 4-5 groups of 10 hitting everything they have.

Thing is no one likes taking keeps. Wed have to recruit a tower terror team to do the dirty work.

A way to do that and keep your small group identities would be to have each group/guild attack a different gate and do trebbing and the like. Or use the general public following a commander to do the tower taking, and have a guild or two designated to tower defense.

I think the proposed idea would be to spread out the guilds in the interest of better fights rather than put them in one server for PPT. If thats the case, and the logistics can get sorted out, I think I know some people that might be interested in joining in.

I like oozo’s idea. T8 is prob easiest as far as the 1 moving serve because will only go one direction. I mean ooz, if we get our guys, KoM from Hod is the only other guild we run with, they would move if we got this together….we get the btsy guys (even tho Korean right?) and noQQ guys in vent along with OINK and whoever else wants a go at this and we hash out details. I’m serious about making this happen. It’s the ONLY tri-faction open system game out there. We need to stop spending our nights
Fighting 40 bad players… And start tactfully fighting 5-8 players regularily.

Thoughts?

Ardon.4105:

I think the proposed idea would be to spread out the guilds in the interest of better fights rather than put them in one server for PPT. If thats the case, and the logistics can get sorted out, I think I know some people that would be interested in joining you.

Realize guys that we are talking about guilds fighting other guilds. I’m pretty sure most of us know we are NOT talking about points, tower takes, or camps…. Those are just objects sitting in our way. We are talking about creating an open hardcore player vs player environment.

I think you guys should come to T8, I hate the mega zerging (only like 60 or so people) that’s become the meta.

I personally suggest FC but ET is fine too

kurtosis.9526:

Talentless.5708:

some of us are getting bored of the current WvW meta of zerg this, zerg that (no not from dying to zergs, but from our only food being stragglers trying to get to them).

Would there not be interest from those who run <10 on a daily/nightly basis to consolidate to a single pretty static tier, like the bottom? If just 9 groups were up for this in a single prime time slot, that would leave us with 3 per server. It would allow us to keep the fun of unknown roaming, as opposed to organized GvGs, as well.

Please note I am focused on NA prime time.

You should arrange this on Anvil Rock for NA, or Desolation for EU, the dominant sPvP servers.

Anvil Rock would probably be better since Desolation is already a T1 zergy EU server, AR is T5 and from what I’ve heard, plays WvW the way they play sPvP – small groups of highly skilled roamers.

Would be cool to build on that foundation and make server full of 24/7 coverage of disruption squads.

Who are the skillful small teams from AR?

Are there enough people to fight beside each other in tier 8?

I think everyone here, that has serious interest in this, is likely tired of the monotonous zerging that occurs each day. It would be one thing if there were consistent small-man groups running around, but there’s not. All of us, likely at multiple points in a night, are probably openly wishing that they had smaller group fights to engage in each night. Here’s the problem, and why it won’t change unless we actively try to change it. ArenaNet laid the foundation for a solid WvW-based game, but it’s fairly clear they have no clue what they’re doing moving forward. The additions, and lack thereof, should signal to anyone that any changes to improve the game are going to have to be done at a player level, not at the design level.

I think we’ve all been through enough tiers to realize that every server is going to zerg, and that aside from the people posting in this thread, there is very little out there in terms of people wanting to ever run in a group size smaller than 15. It’s painfully obvious that the situation is only going to get better unless a group of like-minded individuals make the plunge to mass transfer to a tier.

Now I understand some people don’t want to move, but if our goal is to try and find competitive fights, why wouldn’t you? I’m not asking anyone here to invest real life money into a pyramid scheme, I’m just asking people to spend a little bit of gold, something you could easily make in a day, so that we could form an actual small-man group community. I don’t know about you guys, but this is a no-brainer to me. If you truly want to regularly fight against competitive teams, why not make this happen?

Oozo, you of all people should understand this. Back when I was in Envy, and we had you guys in AD, Bsty, NoQQ, LARP, and TrX, it was probably the most fun I’ve ever had in this game. We have a chance to recreate that kind of community again, and it honestly is just going to take a few people spend some gold.

As far as tiers go, a lot of them are fairly unstable at the moment. Realistically, tier 8 is probably the most stable as FC and ET are likely locked into that tier. It might be a solid destination since it’s likely to have the most stability, server wise. I know that HoD is probably going to fall into that tier in the next week or so, but no idea how long they’ll be there.

Anyone that has real interest in this, we should all get together on vent sometime and hammer out the details to make this happen. This game is only going to get better if we make it happen.

Thank you Talentless for pointing me to this thread. While RIOT has talked about transferring, we currently are not going to do it. I will definitely monitor this thread and see where this leads.

One issue we had with tiers lower than tier 2 is that there isn’t a lot of action outside of prime time. In addition to that, when we play we tend to dominate the enemy’s small pugs/groups, and they either end up leaving the BL or zerging us. At least in T1/2 small groups are competitive, and there is more of them.

If your small group is leaving T1, please post it here. The more of you that leave JQ/SoR, the worse our gameplay will get in this tier, and it might make an impact on whether or not we transfer. Thank you!

frostshade.3617:

tier 7 perhaps has one of the largest roaming pops atm

Not true, and it’s getting worse by the day. SF has zero groups that run solo, and that’s being generous. As to NSP, they used to have a large number of small-man groups roaming around, but the popular thing to do these days is hide in towers and large zergs, and only come out when it’s painfully obvious that they’ll have an advantage. SPCA, Splt, and tM have some solid players who occasionally roam, but they have a much more casual approach than they used to. You’re more likely to see them in a massive group than you would running a small team. Not that they don’t roam, but it’s not very common these days.

On HoD, there’s us and KoM, but since we’re the only ones doing it, we’re staring across at 2 servers full of mindless sheeple. Again, all servers are like that, but your suggestion that tier 7 is full of roaming groups is not true.

While I completely understand hesitancy on all account here fellas, I also think that collectively we have the opportunity to make a tier into a “daoc-like” arena.

What are thoughts about setting up a Voice chat meeting with the heads of groups? Obviously we want as many leaders/people from 5 man guilds as possible so we can base it around the majorities schedules.

kurtosis.9526:

You should arrange this on Anvil Rock for NA, or Desolation for EU, the dominant sPvP servers.

Anvil Rock would probably be better since Desolation is already a T1 zergy EU server, AR is T5 and from what I’ve heard, plays WvW the way they play sPvP – small groups of highly skilled roamers.

Would be cool to build on that foundation and make server full of 24/7 coverage of disruption squads.

When we were on NSP, we played against AR for over a month. You’re right, they do WvW like they sPvP, they sit in a large circle after they kill some guards. AR is further proof that sPvP is one of the biggest jokes of competitive PvP in any MMO. We’ve fought against some of the highest rated sPvP players out in WvW, and it’s fairly embarassing what they bring to the table. Those guys have no clue what to do when there is not a circle to stand in. Now I’m sure there are some talented players who do it, but it clearly does not transfer over to success in other aspects of this game.

AR is just another zerging server, like the rest of them. Not trying to be harsh, I just wanted to give people a realistic heads up on what we could expect there.

I’d be up for a meeting, but again we are not planning on moving at this point so don’t expect that outcome for this meeting please. However, I do want to stay in the loop on this and see where it goes. Feel free to PM me a teamspeak address, and a day/time. I can’t be on until after 6:30 pm PST/9:30 pm EST on weeknights.

Skarloc.2569:

I know that HoD is probably going to fall into that tier in the next week or so, but no idea how long they’ll be there.

Assuming you guys stay on HoD and attract even more players that don’t participate in objective/score-based play to join you… it’ll stay in t8 in perpetuity.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Skarloc.2569:

I know that HoD is probably going to fall into that tier in the next week or so, but no idea how long they’ll be there.

Assuming you guys stay on HoD and attract even more players that don’t participate in objective/score-based play to join you… it’ll stay in t8 in perpetuity.

You know the reward difference from losing each week in t8 compared to winning t1 every week? That’s right folks, the same exact thing! ArenaNet has implemented a scoring system that rewards you for winning, by placing you in another tier where you can grind for the same exact thing you’ve done in every other tier. It’s fools gold, and each day people realize it, the game slowly dies. It’s a perpetual loop of the same garbage. There is no skill difference between tiers, just numbers. So if we were to just sit in t8 for all of eternity, it wouldn’t bother me a bit.

I would actually prefer it if there was a tier that didn’t focus on objectives. It would be one thing if there was some type of reward, but there’s not.

Skarloc.2569:

You know the reward difference from losing each week in t8 compared to winning t1 every week? That’s right folks, the same exact thing! ArenaNet has implemented a scoring system that rewards you for winning, by placing you in another tier where you can grind for the same exact thing you’ve done in every other tier. It’s fools gold, and each day people realize it, the game slowly dies. It’s a perpetual loop of the same garbage. There is no skill difference between tiers, just numbers. So if we were to just sit in t8 for all of eternity, it wouldn’t bother me a bit.

You’ve successfully turned this interesting idea into a circle jerk. Keep on patting yourself on the back about how skilled you are if it makes you feel better.

FWIW, ET and FC may welcome the roamers hopping down, I know they have quite a few skilled roaming guilds down there, but I know quite a few of them want to work on progressing as a server as well (as much as you may think that’s such an inferior desire). So I don’t know that stability can really be promised in any tier.

Changing the meta is a fun idea, I’m all for it, just don’t be douchy about it.

Skarloc.2569:

I would actually prefer it if there was a tier that didn’t focus on objectives.

That was my point. If HoD drops down and you pull many of the players that don’t focus on objectives to Tier8, you won’t really have to worry about the server moving back up and having to re-transfer back into tier8.

your game play focus will solidify your low ranking and overtime you might even drive more objective-based t8 players to t7 servers.

it’s win-win for mostly everyone.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

You’ve successfully turned this interesting idea into a circle jerk. Keep on patting yourself on the back about how skilled you are if it makes you feel better.

FWIW, ET and FC may welcome the roamers hopping down, I know they have quite a few skilled roaming guilds down there, but I know quite a few of them want to work on progressing as a server as well (as much as you may think that’s such an inferior desire). So I don’t know that stability can really be promised in any tier.

Changing the meta is a fun idea, I’m all for it, just don’t be douchy about it.

I think you misunderstand what I’m trying to say. We’re not trying to change the meta, we’re trying to find a stable tier where small-man groups can roam around in regularity. The zerg meta is not changing, regardless of whether this happens or not, and it’s not our goal to change that. People are going to zerg regardless of what I say. It’s certainly not my style of play, but ArenaNet has built their game to cater to that style of play.

Again, I realize wherever we go that’s going to happen, and that’s all right. What we’re trying to do is move the few small-man groups that are left to an area where we can all fight against each other.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Skarloc.2569:

I would actually prefer it if there was a tier that didn’t focus on objectives.

That was my point. If HoD drops down and you pull many of the players that don’t focus on objectives to Tier8, you won’t really have to worry about the server moving back up and having to re-transfer back into tier8.

your game play focus will solidify your low ranking and overtime you might even drive more objective-based t8 players to t7 servers.

it’s win-win for mostly everyone.

And we’re not trying to drive players out, so we don’t want to come across that way. Even if we get a bunch of small-man groups to come over here, we’re still going to be in the minority, and that’s all right. A lot of the smaller roaming groups are scattered across tiers and and are frustrated with not finding the fights we want. We’re just hoping that we can consolidate all of that.

Oozo, Accel, Talentless, Niim, Boulderbolg,

Would you guys be open to setting up a voice chat meet to discuss a possible tier setup? We need to get reps from all guilds interested.

I don’t see AD / NoQQ / BSty moving anytime soon. Like Oozo said, we are very much interested in staying on the same server together, and the amount of organization a move would take between our three guilds is quite large.

AD isn’t a small 5-man guild who run together with the same 5 members every night either. Who is playing and when is very much dynamic rather than static. Some of us also have guilds outside of AD, using them as platforms for other types of content than what we normally do within the guild, and as such we have other obligations on Devona’s Rest.

I’m not at all the leader of AD but this is just how I see it.

If you choose to go forward with this idea then by all means I wish you good luck.

Don’t know if that would work. I remember reading a while back that NSP was supposed to be the unofficial small-group server and that other small groups were invited to it as well as the tier in general.

As we can see, that didn’t work out too well. :p

Gab Superstar.4059:

I don’t see AD / NoQQ / BSty moving anytime soon. Like Oozo said, we are very much interested in staying on the same server together, and the amount of organization a move would take between our three guilds is quite large.

AD isn’t a small 5-man guild who run together with the same 5 members every night either. Who is playing and when is very much dynamic rather than static. Some of us also have guilds outside of AD, using them as platforms for other types of content than what we normally do within the guild, and as such we have other obligations on Devona’s Rest.

I’m not at all the leader of AD but this is just how I see it.

If you choose to go forward with this idea then by all means I wish you good luck.

“Guys, we are moving to T8, these 7 other guilds specifically are helping us fund each players xfer. AD, Btsy, noQQ have been designated on agreed upon terms to move to this server in T8. They will be going against this server which has PAXA, KoM, and some other, And the third server will have OINK, AoN, and some other guild. It can be worked out faily easily. The official move is this such and such date. "

That is all we are talking about here. Were not uprooting your lives jeez lol. It is to have a consistent platform to fight each other on. Fighting zergs is the same no matter what tier, what server. IT SUCKS! We are talkin moving skilled teams to one place to challenge each other daily.

Gab Superstar.4059:

I don’t see AD / NoQQ / BSty moving anytime soon. Like Oozo said, we are very much interested in staying on the same server together, and the amount of organization a move would take between our three guilds is quite large.

AD isn’t a small 5-man guild who run together with the same 5 members every night either. Who is playing and when is very much dynamic rather than static. Some of us also have guilds outside of AD, using them as platforms for other types of content than what we normally do within the guild, and as such we have other obligations on Devona’s Rest.

I’m not at all the leader of AD but this is just how I see it.

If you choose to go forward with this idea then by all means I wish you good luck.

^ This is basically correct. We typically top out with 10-15 players running at primetime but those 10-15 players are quite different from night to night. I’m guessing we’d have to get 25-30ish people to fully agree on something like that.

We’d be extremely hesistant to even leave one person behind (except Dynnen, of course, kitten him). So, I really don’t see it in our cards but you never know.

With that said, I would absolutely love it if such an initiative succeeded. It would be very good for the community. You would need to start with true “5 man” squads though. It’s much easier for them to pick up house and leave. You would need to spread them evenly between the servers. The bottom two servers are the safest, but it would restrict the potential matchups that you have if you only use the bottom two servers. The top server is going to be risky to transfer to.

HoD will probably drop down, but the question is… will it remain the top server in T8 or will it slide into the bottom two? You might want to wait to see what happens with HoD.

If you are able to reach a critical mass of 5mans – it should work. I see a lot of interest in this type of thing but not a lot of people willing to take the chance.

Jscull.2514:

Oozo, Accel, Talentless, Niim, Boulderbolg,

Would you guys be open to setting up a voice chat meet to discuss a possible tier setup? We need to get reps from all guilds interested.

Absolutely

naphack.9346:

How about an entirely different proposal?
Bundle all those guilds and groups in the weakest of all servers and once this server reaches the top tier with guerilla tactics, the entire meta will have shifted.

Some people prefer PvP over PvDoor

Acelerion.6820:

Hello sirs. We’ve been talking on and about this with paxa and I’d like to throw out tier 6 as an option.

Right now on DR there is us, AD, BSty, NoQQ who all run small groups. If we could get a few groups on each other server in the matchup it would be some good competition.

My only concern is that I don’t know how stable the tier is. Its been the same for nearly 2 months but a shakeu kitten upposed to happen soon.

You guys funding my xfer? I sure hope so!

Nah well just grab someone else~

Good luck guys, I hope this works out for you all.

Jscull.2514:

We switched to fight those guilds, which have now molded into the Zerg.

Getting tired of hearing this honestly. You know just because you see one or two of us around a zerg sometimes during times of the day our other guildies aren’t around doesn’t mean we still don’t small man every single day.

I mean I’m pretty sure I spent a good 4 hours or so 5 man roaming with guild group last night and another good couple hours solo roaming and another good couple hours duo with Varcona while randomly running around with 2-3 SPCA a couple times. And looking at today so far I’ve spent 2 hours solo roaming, another 1-2 hours in a 5 man group of a mix between XOXO/SPCA/tM. And currently duo roaming with Varcona.

What other roaming guilds did NSP ever have besides XOXO/SPCA/tM? I’ll say it again, just because you see 1 or 2 of us helping get back our BL once in awhile when there isn’t much going on for roaming doesn’t mean we ‘molded into the zerg’. We are still doing the same thing we have always done. And honestly I haven’t even seen a single PAXA more then one time this whole week so maybe it’s just the times we are playing/roaming are not matching up.

All that said, I agree t7 wouldn’t work for what you are trying to do because SF will move up soon and HOD is facing the possibility of dropping, who knows how volatile that could make a future t7.

@Skarloc- I agree the times of Envy, AD, Bsty, NoQQ, LARP, and TrX were the most fun I’ve ever had in GW2.

You have my best wishes that you can make this work and have GW2 to continue being a game you enjoy.