Guild Wars 2

the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.

… they can’t enjoy the game without using the shop?

Barfoi.9537:

the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.

… they can’t enjoy the game without using the shop?

/facepalm
that’s not the point, try to keep up….

Hmm? If you’ve made a “point” anywhere in this topic, then it’s very negligible.

To further address what I was commenting on, so you can “keep up”:

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

That would be a personal problem, and you shouldn’t expect others to cater to its resolution. The gem-market, as already stated, is determined by the “majority”. Like it or not, you must accept that — it’s a fact of life. If others have more money, or more time, so be it. Some prefer to “farm gold” because they have the time, whereas others prefer to buy gems. What’s the problem?

This might cause “unrest” in casual players, sure, but keep this in mind: you’re rewarded for your efforts (figuratively speaking…). It looks like some societies nowadays (e.g., US) expect much from nothing. We’ll have a very sad future!

sorudo.9054:

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

I tell them “Skyrim is that way —→”

sorudo.9054:

Cassocaster.4576:

sorudo.9054:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Rising Dusk.2408:

OrianZeta.1537:

Stop rewarding so much gold just for playing the game. There are a billion currencies; pick another one (how about laurels?). Bound items (you know, actual physical rewards?) are also things.

If selling gems earned a lot more gold and rewards were reworked away from injecting sacks of gold into everyone’s wallets we would have a more rational gem market, balanced economy and rewarding ecosystem.

I generally disagree with this sentiment. Even for obtaining 6g per 100 gems right now from selling gems, that’s 48g for 10 bucks, which for many people in this day and age is one hour of work or far less than that for people with higher paying jobs. Compare this to the number of hours of focused grinding you’d need to get 48g in-game, which is about 6 assuming a maximized 8g/hr rate from champ trains. 1 hour of real work or 6 hours of in-game work. For a lot of people, the appropriate course of action for them is crystal clear.

I think the values are in a good place right now given the amount of time it takes to earn the equivalent value of gold for those gems.

Sure if you don’t have to consider food, paying your house mortgage/rent, paying up your car, paying for your children’s education, paying your ISP, taxes, etc. That $10/hour becomes much lower now, so not too crystal clear to me.

i tried to make that clear many times, way to many ppl are to young to realize all that….or are in debt to prove their irresponsibility.

The line of assumptions are long here. I make good money (computer programmer), I have a family to support and a finite amount of TIME to play. Discretionary income is strong enough to buy gems from time to time and as I have posted on other threads, I have spent somewhere around $700 in the last year on the game.

For myself, who is not a kid and is not irresponsible with my finances, it makes a whole lot of sense to use my game time as efficiently as possible so I have more time with my family and other responsibilities. For those that are cash poor and time rich, maybe it makes more sense to farm but for me and many others like me, it simply doesn’t make sense.

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems. ANet has a vested interest in making money so the exchange rate favors the conversion FROM gems, not to gems. This is a simple thing, it’s about profit and nothing to do with game play.

you know, the problem is that you make the exact same mistake as allot of other ppl, you assume there are only 2 kinds of player.

• players who are poor but have plenty of time
• players who don’t have much time but have plenty of cash to burn

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

To directly answer your question:

“I would stop wishing people would carry me and hand me what I want instead of putting the effort to earn it myself. If I had scant time, I would figure out the best way to make use of it by getting a routine down (I can run dailies in 20 minutes or less almost every day), in a few days you have enough mats for several gold just by spending 20 minutes each day. Can you keep up with someone who spends time and/or money or even both? No….”

Now my opinionated response:
You are asking for something for nothing and it’s not up to this forum nor the economics of this game to give you what you want on a plate. For a person who has so little time, you certainly spend a lot on this board….

sorudo.9054:

you know, the problem is that you make the exact same mistake as allot of other ppl, you assume there are only 2 kinds of player.

• players who are poor but have plenty of time
• players who don’t have much time but have plenty of cash to burn

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

Then they “die”. Game can’t cater to everyone.

This also highlights a deficiency of items in game that can only be purchased with gold. The ascended armor craze is over. You have no need for icy runestones unless you’re crafting a legendary. Armor is available via tokens etc. This leads to a situation where there is nothing to really ‘buy’ in the virtual world, so instead purchases are made in the interface between the virtual and real world market (The gem store.) In order to see both remain constant there needs to be purchases that are in game only via gold and promotional items are only available via gems.

The other down side is that just about all gold is earned dungeons/fractals. Dungeons need lower drop rates and better completion rewards, and PvE open world maps need higher drop rates. This would help make the living world actually living. You’d see people out in it, because this is the better source of income. Currently the open world is usally vacant and dead feeling because everyone is in a dungeon/fractal/champ train because this is where the rewards.

sorudo.9054:

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

The answer is simple: no sane business should care about those people- you don’t market a product to someone who does not have any money. This isn’t a charity.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Sure if you don’t have to consider food, paying your house mortgage/rent, paying up your car, paying for your children’s education, paying your ISP, taxes, etc. That $10/hour becomes much lower now, so not too crystal clear to me.

I did say a lot of people, not all people. And if you’re suffering a financial crisis, you should probably not be spending 6 hours in a game at a time anyway! It’s all about priorities and what is appropriate for you; for a lot of people it’s okay to spend a few hours out of your biweekly paycheck on gems. That’s just the way it is.

sorudo.9054:

Cassocaster.4576:

sorudo.9054:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Rising Dusk.2408:

OrianZeta.1537:

Stop rewarding so much gold just for playing the game. There are a billion currencies; pick another one (how about laurels?). Bound items (you know, actual physical rewards?) are also things.

If selling gems earned a lot more gold and rewards were reworked away from injecting sacks of gold into everyone’s wallets we would have a more rational gem market, balanced economy and rewarding ecosystem.

I generally disagree with this sentiment. Even for obtaining 6g per 100 gems right now from selling gems, that’s 48g for 10 bucks, which for many people in this day and age is one hour of work or far less than that for people with higher paying jobs. Compare this to the number of hours of focused grinding you’d need to get 48g in-game, which is about 6 assuming a maximized 8g/hr rate from champ trains. 1 hour of real work or 6 hours of in-game work. For a lot of people, the appropriate course of action for them is crystal clear.

I think the values are in a good place right now given the amount of time it takes to earn the equivalent value of gold for those gems.

Sure if you don’t have to consider food, paying your house mortgage/rent, paying up your car, paying for your children’s education, paying your ISP, taxes, etc. That $10/hour becomes much lower now, so not too crystal clear to me.

i tried to make that clear many times, way to many ppl are to young to realize all that….or are in debt to prove their irresponsibility.

The line of assumptions are long here. I make good money (computer programmer), I have a family to support and a finite amount of TIME to play. Discretionary income is strong enough to buy gems from time to time and as I have posted on other threads, I have spent somewhere around $700 in the last year on the game.

For myself, who is not a kid and is not irresponsible with my finances, it makes a whole lot of sense to use my game time as efficiently as possible so I have more time with my family and other responsibilities. For those that are cash poor and time rich, maybe it makes more sense to farm but for me and many others like me, it simply doesn’t make sense.

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems. ANet has a vested interest in making money so the exchange rate favors the conversion FROM gems, not to gems. This is a simple thing, it’s about profit and nothing to do with game play.

you know, the problem is that you make the exact same mistake as allot of other ppl, you assume there are only 2 kinds of player.

• players who are poor but have plenty of time
• players who don’t have much time but have plenty of cash to burn

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

People like you are the source of all misery in the entire world, assuming there are only 3 kinds of players:
*players who are cash poor but time rich
*players who are time poor but cash rich
*players who are time poor and cash poor

What you, and many others, fail to realize is that there is a 4th kind, the kind that is cash rich and has plenty of time to play games.
Answer me this since you’re soooooooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

want cheap gold → gems conversion ?

just wait for the 4000 gems purchase promo again…..

Rising Dusk.2408:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Sure if you don’t have to consider food, paying your house mortgage/rent, paying up your car, paying for your children’s education, paying your ISP, taxes, etc. That $10/hour becomes much lower now, so not too crystal clear to me.

I did say a lot of people, not all people. And if you’re suffering a financial crisis, you should probably not be spending 6 hours in a game at a time anyway! It’s all about priorities and what is appropriate for you; for a lot of people it’s okay to spend a few hours out of your biweekly paycheck on gems. That’s just the way it is.

If you are spending more than $12.99 a month, then you are paying more than a WoW-subscription to play GW2. And the initial draw of the subscription-less game becomes a lie.

Like it or not, a free subscription game tend to attract the kind of gamers that do not want any financial commitment from playing a MMO. But when these gamers feel compelled to spend, through the game designs, then conflict and frustrations can arise.

it is more of a culture i think.

westerners are more willing to pay subscription fees as compare to the rest of the world, mainly due to the cost.

$15 a month is very tiny cost to the average westerners when you compare it to their income, but when you compare the same $15 to the income from an average asian for example, it is pretty significant..

hence why you see f2p game flourish in asia….

Seriously, what are you complaining about? Use $15 for some gems and support the game at the same time.

Cassocaster.4576:

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems.

Unfortunatly, this is not true.

People that buy gems with dollars ‘force’ others to do the same. It is because of players that are willing to pay-to-win (read: get top DPS), that others have to pay too.

There is no way for a player to make 3,000 gold by ‘just playing the game’ so that he can buy the top-DPS legendary. That is 300 hours of pure hard-core, mind-numbing grinding. The only realistic way to get 3,000 gold is to spend real money.

Because some people spent that money, ANet will never give a non-pay-to-win way to let us get that top-DPS weapon. Why would ANet do that, when they can get people to pay dollars to have the best gear?

So, yes, it is because of people that spent 700$ on a game, that others need to spend money too to keep up with the insane legendary (read: top DPS weapon) price.

Tallis.5607:

Cassocaster.4576:

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems.

Unfortunatly, this is not true.

People that buy gems with dollars ‘force’ others to do the same. It is because of players that are willing to pay-to-win (read: get top DPS), that others have to pay too.

There is no way for a player to make 3,000 gold by ‘just playing the game’ so that he can buy the top-DPS legendary. That is 300 hours of pure hard-core, mind-numbing grinding. The only realistic way to get 3,000 gold is to spend real money.

3,000 gold costs about US$588 at today’s price. Seriously, most people would not be willing to throw that kind of money at a MMO.

Because some people spent that money, ANet will never give a non-pay-to-win way to let us get that top-DPS weapon. Why would ANet do that, when they can get people to pay dollars to have the best gear?

So, yes, it is because of people that spent 700$ on a game, that others need to spend money too to keep up with the insane legendary (read: top DPS weapon) price.

You can still get the best DPS weapons by going the Ascended route.

Tallis.5607:

Cassocaster.4576:

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems.

Unfortunatly, this is not true.

People that buy gems with dollars ‘force’ others to do the same. It is because of players that are willing to pay-to-win (read: get top DPS), that others have to pay too.

There is no way for a player to make 3,000 gold by ‘just playing the game’ so that he can buy the top-DPS legendary. That is 300 hours of pure hard-core, mind-numbing grinding. The only realistic way to get 3,000 gold is to spend real money.

Because some people spent that money, ANet will never give a non-pay-to-win way to let us get that top-DPS weapon. Why would ANet do that, when they can get people to pay dollars to have the best gear?

So, yes, it is because of people that spent 700$ on a game, that others need to spend money too to keep up with the insane legendary (read: top DPS weapon) price.

Are you blaming me for your lack of gear because I spent money on the game? An amount, I might add, which only averages out to $15US per week. You’re telling me that because I spent money you have to?

Thank you for proving my point about people with an attitude towards a person like me just because I spent money. I don’t own any legendaries, I crafted the 4 ascended weapons I have with mats I farmed. I use gems for things that cannot be bought with gold, like character slots, bank expansion, black lion keys, skins, BL salvage kits. I also just spent 25 days getting enough laurels to get an ascended earring for the build I am completing, should I feel bad about earning my laurels? Are those unfair?

Syeria.4812:

sorudo.9054:

Cassocaster.4576:

sorudo.9054:

DarkSpirit.7046:

Rising Dusk.2408:

OrianZeta.1537:

Stop rewarding so much gold just for playing the game. There are a billion currencies; pick another one (how about laurels?). Bound items (you know, actual physical rewards?) are also things.

If selling gems earned a lot more gold and rewards were reworked away from injecting sacks of gold into everyone’s wallets we would have a more rational gem market, balanced economy and rewarding ecosystem.

I generally disagree with this sentiment. Even for obtaining 6g per 100 gems right now from selling gems, that’s 48g for 10 bucks, which for many people in this day and age is one hour of work or far less than that for people with higher paying jobs. Compare this to the number of hours of focused grinding you’d need to get 48g in-game, which is about 6 assuming a maximized 8g/hr rate from champ trains. 1 hour of real work or 6 hours of in-game work. For a lot of people, the appropriate course of action for them is crystal clear.

I think the values are in a good place right now given the amount of time it takes to earn the equivalent value of gold for those gems.

Sure if you don’t have to consider food, paying your house mortgage/rent, paying up your car, paying for your children’s education, paying your ISP, taxes, etc. That $10/hour becomes much lower now, so not too crystal clear to me.

i tried to make that clear many times, way to many ppl are to young to realize all that….or are in debt to prove their irresponsibility.

The line of assumptions are long here. I make good money (computer programmer), I have a family to support and a finite amount of TIME to play. Discretionary income is strong enough to buy gems from time to time and as I have posted on other threads, I have spent somewhere around $700 in the last year on the game.

For myself, who is not a kid and is not irresponsible with my finances, it makes a whole lot of sense to use my game time as efficiently as possible so I have more time with my family and other responsibilities. For those that are cash poor and time rich, maybe it makes more sense to farm but for me and many others like me, it simply doesn’t make sense.

The thing that kind of irks me is that people take an attitude towards those that can afford to buy gems (or choose to should that be the delimiter in deciding to buy or grind), no one HAS to buy gems. ANet has a vested interest in making money so the exchange rate favors the conversion FROM gems, not to gems. This is a simple thing, it’s about profit and nothing to do with game play.

you know, the problem is that you make the exact same mistake as allot of other ppl, you assume there are only 2 kinds of player.

• players who are poor but have plenty of time
• players who don’t have much time but have plenty of cash to burn

what you (and many others) fail to realize is that there is a 3rd kind, the kind that is poor and barely has time to play games.
answer me this since you’re sooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

People like you are the source of all misery in the entire world, assuming there are only 3 kinds of players:
*players who are cash poor but time rich
*players who are time poor but cash rich
*players who are time poor and cash poor

What you, and many others, fail to realize is that there is a 4th kind, the kind that is cash rich and has plenty of time to play games.
Answer me this since you’re soooooooo smart, how do you solve that problem huh?

with that, already solved.
there no problem to solve, they have all the choice (and time) in the world.

it’s actually quite hilarious how ppl respond, one push and they blow up like a helium filled balloon.

Cassocaster.4576:

You’re telling me that because I spent money you have to?

Thank you for proving my point about people with an attitude towards a person like me just because I spent money.

If you do not see that a company caters to the need of people that spend money, at the expense of people that do not spend money, then there is really nothing I can say to help you understand.

Call it an attitude if you want. That doesn’t make it wrong.

Tallis.5607:

If you do not see that a company caters to the need of people that spend money, at the expense of people that do not spend money, then there is really nothing I can say to help you understand.

Call it an attitude if you want. That doesn’t make it wrong.

OK, so let’s say you get put in charge of running GW2 for ANet. There are currently over 350 people employed working on the game. Your sources of income are games sales (which have slowed right down) and the gem store. At the moment the only real concession to the Pay to Win model is the fact that you can convert gems to gold at a pretty poor rate, other than that the store is mostly vanity and convenience items.

How do you change your business model and ensure that you can still employ 350 people?

They could try going the Steam route; make stuff cheaper the longer it has been since its original release by way of “weekend sales”. Steam sells a LOT of games to people who never finish them; they bought the game only because it was “on sale”.

At the end of the day, you still make the same money from selling gems (you might even see gem purchases go up because people scramble to “take advantage” of the sale, thus depleting gems from the pool), but people get the impression that they’ve “saved money”. It’s a very clever psychological trick.

Tallis.5607:

Cassocaster.4576:

You’re telling me that because I spent money you have to?

Thank you for proving my point about people with an attitude towards a person like me just because I spent money.

If you do not see that a company caters to the need of people that spend money, at the expense of people that do not spend money, then there is really nothing I can say to help you understand.

Call it an attitude if you want. That doesn’t make it wrong.

I 100% agree with your view of the COMPANY. I am complaining of how you align me with them as a catalyst to your having to spend real currency to get gold. Listen, McDonalds sells billions of burgers and in the process they destroy huge tracts of farmable land to set up pasture and feed lots for the billions of cows those “burgers” come from. If I buy a burger, do you have to buy a burger? If McDonalds wipes out 50 farms to create that burger I am enjoying, am I complicit? You are aligning me with the cause of your angst and unfortunately, you’re wrong. Your angst comes from you in relation to your view of unfair practices by ANet.

Good luck getting them to change their business model and not cater to people who spend money, that would be asinine.