Guild Wars 2

Per our resident economist’s request

John Smith.4610:

I think whether or not legendaries represent an achievement is an interesting topic, but I don’t think buying some of the parts really changes it. If we want to have a discussion about that, it should be in a new thread.

I think that they show signs of having been intended to be symbols of accomplishment, along the lines of the manifesto’s description of them being the capstone of an epic journey, but I think they have fallen far short of that for a number of reasons.

While I belive they should and do have acomponent of finacial accumen in their creation, that component was achieved by the need to purchase 100g of runestones. Specifically it provides a FIXED target.

The place were finacial accumen trumps all other considerations is the Gift of Fortune, where the thousands (plural) drops required can all be bought. In terms of actually harvesting these items personally, the goalposts haven’t really changed (well, lets not get into the rampant paranoia over dimishing returns/anti-bot code running amok on the open world). But as an opportunity to exercise wealth it’s hard not to feel that early adopters were given unreasonable advantage, sweeping up vast stocks of materials/mystic coins/ectos at a fractions of the cost a player faces now.

This is all in the context of loopholes in dungeon running being closed reducing the rate of gold being amassed and bots being eliminated, driving up material costs.

Also gouging a hole in the side of Legendary legedariness is the Godskull Weapons exploit, which is widely percieved as creating a huge before/after shift in the availability of precursors both for personal use and for sale.

The issue then becomes people who have their legendary want the braging rights and accolades due the difficulty of the accomplishment as it exists now, while the people working on them can’t help but think “bullkitten – you had it easy”.

I just finished Juggernaut today and let me tell you – it feels like an achievement to me.

And that’s what counts.

I think they are, and were intended to be, a symbol of dedication. As there is no skill element involved with obtaining one, the word “achievement” would necessarily be loaded. And as for dedication, yes, whether you farm it yourself, farm gold to buy it, or pay an obscene amount of real money for it, those are all forms of dedication.

I agree with Leablo. They are a symbol of dedication and nothing more. Thus, they are an achievement acquired through the investment of time at any given player’s time-use efficiency level.

I would argue that they are.

If the player obtained all of the components manually, that player has invested a large amount of time fighting a variety of enemies (T6 crafting mats) in a variety of settings (dungeon participation required). The player has also invested, according to the wiki, 231+ mystic coins worth of dailies/monthlies (around 3-4 months).

If the player purchased every component that is purchasable, or the entire legendary outright, he/she has raised hundreds to thousands of gold – an achievement certainly equal in effort if not in variety to having acquired the materials personally.

Regardless, all of the account/soulbound components represent an achievement in and of themselves. Total map completion remains an impressive feat regardless of how many players attain it. The half-million karma worth of Obsidian Shards looks somewhat lackluster compared to other requirements until you account for the additional shards used in clover completion, which puts the figure to at least just shy of a million. The Gift of Battle is something of an outlier here in that it can be obtained reliably from jumping puzzles – but arguably, completing the WvW jumping puzzles repeatedly in spite of players trying to kill you is still an accomplishment.

And of course, the precursor. Well, the player either got astoundingly lucky or raised the necessary sum (which by now is quite substantial) and purchased it. Again, the ability to raise that kind of money is not an accomplishment to be sneezed at.

As for the argument that purchasing gems and converting them into gold is not an accomplishment – currently the USD-gold ratio is 1.25-100. If a player used 100% gem-store obtained gold to craft a legendary, that player would have spent well over 1000 USD (in the case of purchasing the legendary outright, typically well over 2000 USD) – and the player would still have to have completed much of the process manually (dungeon, WvW, world completion, 300+ skill points, 1m karma). Besides, could argue that the ability to raise that much discretionary income to use on a legendary is still an accomplishment – albeit an out-of-game one.

I follow your distinction of Achivement vs. Dedication.. and have to ask. Did the manifesto video make you think displaying a Legendary would be that kind of measuring stick?

Yes they are:
They show how much gold you have spent and/or bought of the TP.
Or The luck achievement.
I think the particle effects should be gold coins splashing off the characters as they walk.

They have no symbolic nature like skill,determination, tenacity,or even epic adventure- just you got lucky or spent rl money on it.

So, they at least showcase you can make (or buy) gold… You have to wonder if the number of people who do think that waving one around IS a sign of accomplishment maps pretty closely to the 15% of the playerbase that John Smith has indicated think making money is fun.

The problem with saying "If the player obtained all of the components manually, that player has invested a large amount of time fighting a variety of enemies (T6 crafting mats) in a variety of settings (dungeon participation required). " lends them an aura of accomplishment is that having gone out and started that exact process, I simply DO NOT BELIEVE even a fraction of the many, many legendaries I see in Lion’s Arch each day were actually made that way.

People have called the entire Legendary system ‘tainted’… even moreso after it became clear that the finished product of the “epic journey” could be sold off in its entirety. While I don’t have quite that negative of an impression, its hard to view them as anything but irrelevant to the qualities that I look for in a player I want to associate with. Much the same as seeing a person in all Cultural Armor just makes me think “Hmm. Good at flipping I guess.” And intellectually I know that’s not a given – they might have dungeoned like dungeonoing was going on out of style, but its just hard for me to treat any coin-based status symbol as worthy of admiration.

Nike.2631:

The problem with saying "If the player obtained all of the components manually, that player has invested a large amount of time fighting a variety of enemies (T6 crafting mats) in a variety of settings (dungeon participation required). " lends them an aura of accomplishment is that having gone out and started that exact process, I simply DO NOT BELIEVE even a fraction of the many, many legendaries I see in Lion’s Arch each day were actually made that way.

Okay, so you’re proposing that the vast majority of legendaries are crafted from components acquired on the trading post (because even the ones purchased in completed form had to be crafted). In that case, they represent one of the following things:

A substantial time investment. If the gold is acquired via grinding, then the player spent a not inconsiderable amount of time doing so. (Also note that raising the money by grinding would almost inevitably lead to acquiring at least some of the T6 materials needed).

A substantial real-world money investment. If the gold is acquired through the gem store, the player spent an astounding amount of money doing so (compared to other hobby-level spending). Simple maths will show that an itemized shopping list for legendary construction is typically in excess of 1000 gold (1250 USD). Again, raising that kind of discretionary income to spend on a game (which you play enough to feel justified spending the money on in the first place) is not unimpressive.

A substantial ability to play the TP. Given that the post was specifically designed not to be easily daytraded upon, this is still impressive. If you’re able to raise hundreds to thousands of gold around the 15% tax, 1c undercutters, and cross-servers market, you’re putting a lot of effort into the TP. Even “getting lucky” and flipping items during particularly volatile phases requires that the player track prices and be ready to jump at any moment – and deal with competitors.

No matter how you slice it, it takes some kind of work to produce a legendary. From where I stand, it’s no less impressive to do the work in the real world or carefully play the market, than to kill thousands of enemies for T6 fine mats.

Blueshield.6291:

No matter how you slice it, it takes some kind of work to produce a legendary. From where I stand, it’s no less impressive to do the work in the real world or carefully play the market, than to kill thousands of enemies for T6 fine mats.

And from where many of your fellow players stand (seemingly 85%) the type of effort involved in carefully playing the market doesn’t mean squat. “Impressive”? Neutrality is probably the nice end of the spectrum. Outright disgust is probably more common than apathy.

If 85% of your player base doesn’t find making gold fun, and Legendaries are cleary most easily acquired by making gold in vast quantities (indeed, in the most extreme case no other activity is required whatsoever), then is there any reason to think even 50% of your audience thinks they still represent any sort of laudible achievement?

I want to contrast legendaries with another purely coin-based status symbol that does have some value to me when displayed by others – the Commander tag. Now I feel most tags being displayed in PvE areas are pathetic “look at me!”s from people I’d largely consider dorks without any further interaction to mitigate their faux pass, but when somebody turns on their tag and tries to herd cats out in the Mists, I try to pay attention. 100g to provide a visible rally point feels like some real dedication to playing WvW.

I might prefer that they introduce some new (perhaps differently shapped) commander tags as part of the new WvW rewards system, so I know the person has put in some sort of gameplay effort rather than maybe being a first-day newb-general who dropped 80 bucks in the gem store an hour ago, but the ones we have now have mostly been in the hands of sincere WvW players on my server at least.

Don’t forget, there’s also many players who farm gold by just playing the game (dungeons) and buy the mats/precursors. Like me!

Is this “tainted?” Very early on I discovered optimal money-making runs in AC and CoF, and was able to grind those dungeons to make money and bought many of my materials.

I’m actually not done yet with a legendary kitten you skill points and karma), but I feel like I put in the effort and dedication. When I get it, it will certainly be an achievement.

Also I’m seriously bothered by the implications floating around in this forum that “making lots of money → must play the TP.” This is obviously not true. I make a good solid 10G a day through dungeon runs. If you assume that a legendary, in total, costs about 1500G, I can get that in a total 150 days of non-stop grinding, which I think is very reasonable.

5 Months to get the rarest item in the game? Hell yea. But obviously I can’t play everyday, and I imagine my journey will take a total of about an year (including the 4 I’ve already spent.) But I’m perfectly fine with that.

If it were not for that dern account medal on the login screen, I would have zero interest in legendaries in their current state. Why? Because they are tied to the tp, because they have a stigma attached to them, there is nothing special about a nobel prize if anyone can buy and most who have them have bought it.

Nike.2631:

Blueshield.6291:

No matter how you slice it, it takes some kind of work to produce a legendary. From where I stand, it’s no less impressive to do the work in the real world or carefully play the market, than to kill thousands of enemies for T6 fine mats.

And from where many of your fellow players stand (seemingly 85%) the type of effort involved in carefully playing the market doesn’t mean squat. “Impressive”? Neutrality is probably the nice end of the spectrum. Outright disgust is probably more common than apathy.

If 85% of your player base doesn’t find making gold fun, and Legendaries are cleary most easily acquired by making gold in vast quantities (indeed, in the most extreme case no other activity is required whatsoever), then is there any reason to think even 50% of your audience thinks they still represent any sort of laudible achievement?

Personal disdain for someone else’s playstyle doesn’t make the time and effort spent on it any less valid. If someone puts in the time to accomplish something within the framework of the game (i.e., not counting exploits. Trading on the market isn’t an exploit in and of itself), more power to them.

The game has always been pitched by ANet as being accommodating to multiple playstyles. Why would you be surprised that the market option exists, or disdain others for using it?

On an aside, please don’t assume to categorize me in John Smith’s (seemingly from-thin-air) 15% of players who enjoy making money. I never said I did; what I said was that as far as I’m concerned, it’s a no less valid approach to obtaining a legendary. ANet seemingly agrees, as the legendary process is only partially dependent upon bound items and the final product is able to be sold.

Blueshield.6291:

Personal disdain for someone else’s playstyle doesn’t make the time and effort spent on it any less valid.

It sure as heck impacts the fruits of that effort being viewed with approval.

Blueshield.6291:

The game has always been pitched by ANet as being accommodating to multiple playstyles. Why would you be surprised that the market option exists, or disdain others for using it?

The GAME was pitched as accommodating multiple playstyles. LEGENDARIES were pitched as the summation of most or all of those playstyles – requiring adventuring in dungeons, open world play, harvesting, acquiring coin, monumental luck in either drops of Mystic Forge use, WvW, and crafting.

And now its clear only one – acquring coin – is actually necessary to sport the shiney.

Bit of an expectation gap there.

On an aside, please don’t assume to categorize me in John Smith’s (seemingly from-thin-air) 15% of players who enjoy making money. I never said I did.

Oh, I’d suspect that by whatever metric was used to generate that number, he thinks you’re behavior places you in part of that 15%. I have no opinion on the matter.

Nike.2631:

I follow your distinction of Achivement vs. Dedication.. and have to ask. Did the manifesto video make you think displaying a Legendary would be that kind of measuring stick?

I don’t even remember a discussion of legendaries in the manifesto. Given what was discussed in it, cosmetic items were a very low priority to me. My general impression of legendaries was that they were GW2’s equivalent of GW1 Obsidian Armor, so in that sense, I would have expected them to require a lot of endgame effort. So although legendaries weren’t on my mind and I therefore had no explicit expectations for them, there have been no real surprises for me. I wonder how many forum ragers lack the context provided by GW1 and if their expectations were instead colored by WoW or whatever?

Ursan.7846:

Don’t forget, there’s also many players who farm gold by just playing the game (dungeons) and buy the mats/precursors. Like me!

Is this “tainted?” Very early on I discovered optimal money-making runs in AC and CoF, and was able to grind those dungeons to make money and bought many of my materials.

I’m actually not done yet with a legendary (kitten you skill points and karma), but I feel like I put in the effort and dedication. When I get it, it will certainly be an achievement.

Two questions.

When you look around and see Legendaries in people’s hands right now, today… how many of them do you estimate were aquired by the methods similar to what you’re choosing to employ vs. how many of them do you suspect are heavily financed into existence?

Do you feel confident that you that when you do get yours, people looking at you will not have a similar chance of thinking you just bought your way to it?

So sum things up, Legendary weapons are a symbol time and dedication to 1) gathering the mats to craft it or 2) making enough money to buy one. Regardless of which path you fall in, it’s still very impressive of a feat to pull off.

And most complainers are just jealous they don’t have the time and dedication to get their own Legendary in break neck speeds. Heaven forbid they get their own Legendary a year or two from now… as it was intended.

Nike.2631:

Two questions.

When you look around and see Legendaries in people’s hands right now, today… how many of them do you estimate were aquired by the methods similar to what you’re choosing to employ vs. how many of them do you suspect are heavily financed into existence?

Do you feel confident that you that when you do get yours, people looking at you will not have a similar chance of thinking you just bought your way to it?

1. Don’t know, and don’t care. All I need to know that I, myself spent my time and effort. And I will (am) enjoy the journey the entire way.

2. Don’t care. I’m not making this legendary to show-off to other people. I’m making this legendary because I set it as my own personal long-term goal for this game. It’s what motivates ME to play.

Nike.2631:

It sure as heck impacts the fruits of that effort being viewed with approval.

True, but it’s arguably irrelevant. ANet has never claimed that one of their purposes in implementing legendaries was to allow legendary owners to be approved of by the majority of players. If they weren’t purchasable, some members of the community would (and did, prior to their becoming purchasable) still disdain legendary owners for other reasons – having “no life” being a common one.

Ursan.7846:

2. Don’t care. I’m not making this legendary to show-off to other people. I’m making this legendary because I set it as my own personal long-term goal for this game. It’s what motivates ME to play.

Exactly. It makes vastly more sense for designers to consider legendaries conceptually as providing players with long-term, personal goals, rather than as a means to widespread popularity and approval.

If fear of being viewed as a “market manipulator” dissuades you from setting that goal for yourself, then so be it.

Nike.2631:

The GAME was pitched as accommodating multiple playstyles. LEGENDARIES were pitched as the summation of most or all of those playstyles – requiring adventuring in dungeons, open world play, harvesting, acquiring coin, monumental luck in either drops of Mystic Forge use, WvW, and crafting.

And now its clear only one – acquring coin – is actually necessary to sport the shiney.

Bit of an expectation gap there.

That’s true of acquisition, certainly, but ANet has chosen to blur this line. Every legendary in existence was crafted by someone, period. If I choose to craft a Twilight, sell it, and use the proceeds to buy a Juggernaut, does that “taint” my Juggernaut somehow?

ANet obviously views the acquisition of enough gold to buy a legendary as approximately equivalent to the gameplay necessary to craft it – the choice to open the market to legendaries is a clear demonstration of this. The opinion of one individual, or ten, or a hundred is irrelevant to that.

Nike.2631:

Oh, I’d suspect that by whatever metric was used to generate that number, he thinks you’re behavior places you in part of that 15%. I have no opinion on the matter.

Well, you do have an opinion on it, because you brought it up and placed me there entirely of your own accord.

And you’re starting to put words into an awful lot of people’s mouths, here. Smith’s metric was that “15% of players enjoy making money,” not that “15% of players either enjoy making money or view that as a valid playstyle for others.”

Attempting to categorize individuals in the thread on the basis of the metric is not only presumptuous, but irrelevant to the topic at hand. If you plan to dismiss any opinions contrary to yours on the basis of the metric, why bring up the topic at all?

Isaiah Cartwright’s Blog Post for context~

If you’ve been playing Guild Wars 2 in the month or so since launch, you’ve likely heard players talking about Legendary Weapons. What is a Legendary Weapon—and more importantly, how can you get one?

Legendary Weapons are the end result of an epic adventure in Guild Wars 2. You’ll travel all over, collecting items and amassing materials to build your Legendary Weapon.

How do you get started? Legendary Weapons are created in the Mystic Forge. We’ve kept the recipe a mystery so the community has a puzzle to figure out, but if you want some hints, many players have been posting their progress on forums. You’ll begin to see some ambitious players wielding Legendary Weapons in game very soon. If you’re more the figure-it-out-yourself type, you can finds hints as to how to craft your weapon in almost every area of Guild Wars 2—WvW, dungeons, dynamic events, crafting, and more—so keep your eyes peeled.

Let me explain some of the process. It all starts with a base weapon—these are the extremely rare exotic weapons. Once you’ve obtained your base weapon, you’ll need to present gifts to Zommoros, a powerful djinn who lives in Lion’s Arch. These gifts come from all over Tyria, and you’ll need different ones depending on what Legendary Weapon you’re trying to craft, so be ready to do some exploring.

From there, you’ll need to collect ore, wood, and high-level trophies. You’ll complete dungeons, battle in World vs. World, collect karma, and visit the Temple of Balthazar. Once you collect all of the necessary gifts, materials, and karma, you’re ready to craft your Legendary Weapon.

Legendary Weapons are an impressive meld of art and effects. They show off your accomplishments and allow you to change your character’s footprints, projectiles, and much more. They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.

Let me just repeat that final statement for emphasis~

They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.

Does anyone think that what we have in game right now hit that mark?

Nike.2631:

Does anyone think that what we have in game right now hit that mark?

See my post above. I’ll even quote it for your convenience.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So sum things up, Legendary weapons are a symbol time and dedication to 1) gathering the mats to craft it or 2) making enough money to buy one. Regardless of which path you fall in, it’s still very impressive of a feat to pull off.

And most complainers are just jealous they don’t have the time and dedication to get their own Legendary in break neck speeds. Heaven forbid they get their own Legendary a year or two from now… as it was intended.

Ursan.7846:

2. Don’t care. I’m not making this legendary to show-off to other people. I’m making this legendary because I set it as my own personal long-term goal for this game. It’s what motivates ME to play.

So you don’t see them as symbols then. No appreciation of anyone else’s, and no expectation of appreciation of yours.

Nike.2631:

They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.

Does anyone think that what we have in game right now hit that mark?

Again, ANet obviously believes that the ability to raise the money necessary to purchase a legendary weapon qualifies as a signifier of mastery, or they wouldn’t have changed the system to what we have currently. The fact that your opinion differs is interesting but irrelevant.

Nike.2631:

Ursan.7846:

2. Don’t care. I’m not making this legendary to show-off to other people. I’m making this legendary because I set it as my own personal long-term goal for this game. It’s what motivates ME to play.

So you don’t see them as symbols then. No appreciation of anyone else’s, and no expectation of appreciation of yours.

No, I see it as a symbol of my own time put into the game.

How others see me? I could care less.

You have to be a very vain person if you’re gonna let how other people “appreciate” your gear affect your decision making.

Nike.2631:

Let me just repeat that final statement for emphasis~

They’re designed to stand out and show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2.

Does anyone think that what we have in game right now hit that mark?

Does anyone read an obvious piece of marketing fluff and take it as literally as you imply we should? Exactly what is a “true master” anyway? Because if I were to interpret that literally, you would probably like the outcome even less with regards to your chances at legendary acquisition. As it is, Izzy’s statement about being a true master reads the same way as telling a kid they can be a Pokemon master. It’s just a motivational statement and no reasonable person reads it as a particular claim regarding the circumstances of acquisition.

Regardless of what the casual poor sod thinks..
Owning a legendary puts you at a higher status than the average Joe, period.
% wise, every player will confirm you that the legendaries wielders are spread out and scarce, even if they get to see 3 or 5 standing at the same spot in LA.

Soon they will become like FoW armor in GW1, when not everyone had it, but a dedicated portion. Which the armor acted as a status symbol.

In my opinion, legendary means nothing more than you have a legendary.

I was originally working on Bifrost and I am an older patient gamer, I didn’t work on it exclusively just stored away the things required to craft it.
I gave up when they became more about how much money you had rather than how much time you spent working at it.

The fact is you can buy a completed legendary with a credit card 10 minutes after buying the game, so to me they mean nothing, nothing at all.

If I see a PvP title, I respect the player putting that effort in to gain that title, If I see a full set of dungeon armour then I respect that players knowledge of that dungeon, heck, if I see someone with Toymaker title I respect that player committing to achieve all the objectives over Christmas. If I see a legendary I wonder if they bought it outright, just bought the precursor, if they are just a lucky player having the precursor drop for them or if they are an exploiter, have bot alts or are gold buyers.

It’s unfortunate that what should have been a status symbol in game was ruined in that way. It is not a status symbol at all in my view.

Oh and it certainly does not put you at a higher status than the average Joe. A full set of dungeon armour says more about a player than a legendary weapon. A full set of dungeon armour says that this player knows the dungeon and has succesfully completed it a number of times, it says this would be a good player to bring on a run of that dungeon. Legendary doesn’t say anything about a player at all as there are ways of attaining them out of game.

Put it this way, I have a good, well paid job. I could buy a fully crafted legendary right now and equip it when I get home from work and it wouldn’t mean a thing. I can afford it but I choose not to buy it exactly because it means nothing so would be a waste of money (in my opinion).

It means you bought stuff when it was cheap or you know how to play trade wars 2. Nothing else.

To me it is, because it was a symbol of my hard work.

To someone who bought it using gem/gold and a credit card, it may not be.

I also don’t really care what other people think about me with my legendary. If you think I earned it, thanks. If you think I bought it, I don’t really care.

I don’t see why it wouldn’t be an accomplishment. Buying a legendary with cash would cost over $1200. I seriously doubt many people have done that.

One of the gifts for obtaining the legendary is called “Gift of Fortune”. It isn’t called gift of moderate income, or welfare gift. It takes a lot of money to make a legendary, that is by design, thus the FORTUNE part. I hardly see how you make that fortune (as long as you aren’t exploiting) matters. Everyone has access to the same game, same resources and same starting conditions. Selling mats you don’t need and buying the ones you do is just common sense.

Precursors are priced according to their popularity and their rarity. A couple people did exploit this market, but since it added many precursors into the market it did lower prices that otherwise would be even worse then they are now.

The 2 million karma, the 100% map completion, the 500 WvW badges and the 200 SP’s are all achievements you can’t buy and each one takes significant effort.

Lodestones are a mess right now, I do think something needs to be done to equalize them and make them more accessible. Currently grinding lodestones is the hardest part of some legendaries.

Regardless of how they are obtained, how many have been acquired, or the forums’ opinion on them, as these three are completely and utterly irrelevant to me(huge emphasis on that last one), I will feel like I achieved something when I finally get my Twilight.

I started toward my Twilight on November 22nd with 17g. I couldn’t play much from December 13th to January 13th due to being home for the holidays, way out in the sticks. Now, I am about 400g from Twilight.

I’m going to wield it happily, as soon as I pay off some debts….

I’ve put a lot of hard work into getting my Frostfang so far, and I’m about 60g away from finishing it. However, once I do finish it, I’m going to sell it and be rid of it, and it’s that simple, really.

No. There’s nothing epic about them at all. And I say this as someone who’s halfway done with one. It’s a boring, grindy slog, and there’s no fun in it whatsoever except for the expectation that one day you’ll be done and have something unique.

I’m going to briefly go over each segment of the legendary process and explain why I think its either good or bad.

Precursor Weapon – Neat idea but bad implementation. Allowing players to have a sense of upgrading an existing weapon is cool, but the fact that these weapons are ultra rare and ultra expensive is not good. It doesn’t help that there is no legitimate way to “farm” one up, rather you must dump potentially hundreds of gold into the Mystic Forge and pray to whatever deity you believe in.

Icy Runestones – Not a bad idea really, having some gold cost is OK, and its better that its an NPC-bought item that will not inflate (making this purchase easier over time)

Gift of Metal/Wood/Energy – These are fine. Crafting materials are not super scarce but getting 250 stacks of them can still take a dedicated effort.

Secondary gift requiring lodestones – TERRIBLE. Lodestone drop rates are too slim and their prices are too high. This is a blatantly obvious “buy gold or farm forever” step. Having arbitrary secondary items like Silver Doubloons that have jacked up prices solely due to their use as legendary components is even worse.

77 Mystic Clovers – Bad. Randomness is never a fun idea in crafting. Ever. Making someone craft almost 100 random-chance items with a high materials cost is ridiculous. At the very, very least they should have offered a 100% recipe for 3x the mats . Luck should not be a factor. And yes I know its called the gift of “fortune”, the design still sucks.

250 ectos – A good choice. Ectos are in high demand by all players so this is one of those long-term farm items, but they are generally acquired by all high level players no matter what they are doing. You don’t have to go out of your way to get ectos, like with lodestones, they just flow naturally.

Gift of Might & Magic – Another blatant “buy gold please” item. 250 of every T6 material? That’s never going to happen, not with DRs on farming events and spiking prices of these T6 mats. Who’s going to actually generate these mats? Botters are, and you’re going to buy from them whether you farmed that gold yourself or bought it. A bad design choice especially given the game’s anti-farm DRs.

Bloodstone Shard – This choice is fine, in fact I might even suggest that the skill point cost on the Shard should be even higher as 200 is very low hanging fruit.

Obsidian Shards – Another fine choice, karma is accrued naturally without needing to be farmed intensely. Further sources of shards are being added to the game regularly which only makes this already good decision even better (but why aren’t other legendary components getting the same treatment? Why no Fractal Relic or Laurel Lodestones?)

Gift of Exploration – Probably the only thing in the Legendary recipe that actually feels like an accomplishment.

Gift of Battle – I get that they want you to participate in “all areas” of the game, but 500 badges is ridiculous. Most people will not get that amount without a serious dedication to WvW, not everyone likes WvW. You can do WvW for 2 hours and walk away with 2 badges. Of course like many other Legendary components, luck factors in, but should this really mandate hundreds of hours in WvW alone? Of course not, nobody wants to grind out WvW just for a Legendary. “Do the Jumping Puzzle a hundred times” is the alternative that most choose, and its not a good one. And no, that’s not a request to remove badges from the JPs, just pointing out the flawed design.

In the end, what is a legendary? It’s a symbol that you bought or farmed ludicrous amounts of gold. It’s a symbol of winning the lottery with a precursor, and having good luck with Mystic Clovers (or being persistent in spite of bad luck). On some level I wonder if the whole concept of Legendaries was meant to be a subtle jab at hardcore players, an attempt to see how many hoops they would be willing to jump through just for a status item.

Are Legendary Weapons Symbols of Achievment?
Absolutely, it felt like a real achievement after I equipped it.

I finally obtained The Predator for my engineer after months of farming. The new update made it awesome BTW. An easy way for me getting it was setting a goal and not spending a dime on other weapons and armor that I really didn’t need.

The creation process for a Legendary was pretty cool IMO, except for the precursor which I just farmed up gold and bought it of the TP.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

So sum things up, Legendary weapons are a symbol time and dedication to 1) gathering the mats to craft it or 2) making enough money to buy one. Regardless of which path you fall in, it’s still very impressive of a feat to pull off.

And most complainers are just jealous they don’t have the time and dedication to get their own Legendary in break neck speeds. Heaven forbid they get their own Legendary a year or two from now… as it was intended.

I think you make an interesting point about the timeframe. If people took a while through game play to earn a legendary, more people would feel they really are legendary.

The issue remains thought that (dare I say) nobody that currently has one has earned it through normal game play activities? So far every person I’ve seen that says they are proud of one adds a comment such as: after months of farming, grinding out loadstones, 8 hours of Orr a day, flipping on the TP, etc…

If the design decisions to make legendaries forced the time frame needed to be longer but more fullfilling, they might hold more value. But by making all but a handful of components purchasable, it became a race of who can get the most coin.

I think it was a huge mistake to not include more soulbound or accountbound awards given through in-game play. More components like 100% world completion rather than stacks and stacks of stuff to buy off the TP.

I’ll continue to work on one at my own pace but I really don’t like the way they are currently obtained.

Dreamslayer.7659:

I just finished Juggernaut today and let me tell you – it feels like an achievement to me.

And that’s what counts.

What you’ve felt is not an achievement, it’s relief.

You’re glad its finally over.

Calae.1738:

Dreamslayer.7659:

I just finished Juggernaut today and let me tell you – it feels like an achievement to me.

And that’s what counts.

What you’ve felt is not an achievement, it’s relief.

You’re glad its finally over.

Oh, tell me how I feel next!

Legendaries are just a show of coin now. Spend a few weeks standing at a trading post vendor, you get a legendary.

Mad Clock Tower, THAT was an achievement

Serophous.9085:

Legendaries are just a show of coin now. Spend a few weeks standing at a trading post vendor, you get a legendary.

gross overstatement

working on my second legendary and i didn’t flip or manipulate a single item on the tp

[edit]
i understand you mean that in a sense that some players earned theirs by playing tp wars, but i speak for myself and the people on my followers list with legendaries when i say that most if not all of us did not spend our time in game making small talk with the black lion merchants

Serophous.9085:

Legendaries are just a show of coin now. Spend a few weeks standing at a trading post vendor, you get a legendary.

Mad Clock Tower, THAT was an achievement

I couldn’t agree more.

Something “legendary” or “epic” should be given out for an actual gameplay accomplishment, not for amassing a hoard of gold. Put in more stuff like that… challenging gameplay… and put legendary components in them.

Not that they’d all have to be Jumping Puzzles. How about some very hard story missions or something? Make people solo champions, or sneak through a huge dungeon full of patrolling silver mobs. Something that takes actual effort, skill, preparation. Not this grind-1000-gold treadmill.

kiba.2768:

gross overstatement
working on my second legendary and i didn’t flip or manipulate a single item on the tp

It’s not necessarily the flipping… Its that the T6 items can be bought. Its that the lodestones nearly have to be bought. Its that mystic coins (laurels without the benefit of hindsight) can be bought. If the mystic coins had been account bound we wouldn’t have seen the first Legendary finished a mere 40 days after the game launched. Well, not unless that person had been on every single day, AND hit 7 x10 and 7 x1 clover attmepts in a row…

Way, way too much of the process can be side-stepped with money, both real and virtual.

Imo no, they are not. They would be, but there are simply too many varying methods to obtain them that do not balance in terms of time or effort. The disproportionate comparison between methods is what kills it for me. Kinda like a team winning it’s way to the Superbowl and the other team bought it’s way or part of it’s way there.

Gisei.5749:

Oh, tell me how I feel next!

You’re feeling I couldn’t possible know what your actually feeling…

…Sorry just saw that gag in an episode of NCIS last week .

What you are actually thinking is:

Serophous.9085:

Legendaries are just a show of coin now. Spend a few weeks standing at a trading post vendor, you get a legendary.

Mad Clock Tower, THAT was an achievement

I don’t have that one, but I certainly applaud those that do. I had great fun trying to get it .

Nike.2631:

kiba.2768:

gross overstatement
working on my second legendary and i didn’t flip or manipulate a single item on the tp

Way, way too much of the process can be side-stepped with money, both real and virtual.

now this is a sensible statement and i agree 100%. however, the key word is can. it doesn’t mean that all the purchasable parts of a legendary were bought. it is highly suspect that at least some of it was. i would even go so far as to say it was almost guaranteed that some parts were partially paid for in gold, because gold is such an integral part of the game’s economy and players come into contact with it in myriad ways.

even if most of a legendary didn’t have to be bought with gold, i can say with certainty that even the most ardent non-trade post players posting about making one from DROPS alone would not be opposed or even bought some mats to shorten the time invested. what i can’t say is how much bought = legendary = symbol of wealth. that is up to the person who is making the legendary to decide.

Blueshield.6291:

If the player purchased every component that is purchasable, or the entire legendary outright, he/she has raised hundreds to thousands of gold – an achievement certainly equal in effort if not in variety to having acquired the materials personally.

AN being the operative word. If the player purchased every component, then the accumulation of gold (or buying the gold with RL cash) is ONE achievement, not the broad range of achievements that the Isaiah Cartwright video implies that it symbolises.

Svarty.8019:

Blueshield.6291:

If the player purchased every component that is purchasable, or the entire legendary outright, he/she has raised hundreds to thousands of gold – an achievement certainly equal in effort if not in variety to having acquired the materials personally.

AN being the operative word. If the player purchased every component, then the accumulation of gold (or buying the gold with RL cash) is ONE achievement, not the broad range of achievements that the Isaiah Cartwright video implies that it symbolises.

Things not purchasable with gold:
Karma
World Completion
Dungeon tokens
Badges of Honor
Skill Points

Though I actually kinda wish they’d include Personal Story completion and Dungeon Master completion as requirements for the legendary. Ah well.

It’s a purely subjective matter whether legendaries are a symbol of achievement. I can easily see why someone who spent a great deal of time gathering everything to create a legendary would see it as a symbol of achievement, and I can also see how others think it is not since they are readily available for sale on the trading post. But I feel that in reality, they are more like symbols of wealth, as it takes a great deal of gold to buy one off the trading post or gather all the necessary materials to craft one for yourself.

Either way you go about it, it is a significant gold sink to any player and in this way they play a similar role that Obsidian armor had in GW1 as a status symbol. Not saying this is a bad thing, and in fact, I don’t really mind it at all because legendaries ultimately boil down to being a cosmetic item and nothing more.