Guild Wars 2

What the guy above me said. I tried so hard to have it a month in to game and it didn’t work out. Now I am on the long grind and it’s a lot of fun. Oh snap yes I got my precursor and it’s not hard to do or expensive because I did not buy it. I just forged my way to it in a very smart way and now I am helping my friends do the same( though they are slightly more unlucky than I was) I still believe its possible and obtainable for anyone else and you don’t have to play 8 hrs a day, you just can’t have it today, sorry got to work for it. Put the idea of buying it out of your head and just go get it. What a novel concept eh?

Esplen.3940:

It was a 0.01% chance at the end of a dungeon with difficulty equivalent to Arah Path 4. Meaning you had to do Arah Path 4 ~10,000x to get it.

Sure, some people got it on their first runs, and others ran it more than the allotted 10,000x without getting it at all. Even with that in mind, everyone who saw the weapon was awed and bowed down to the person wielding it in terms of GW dedication, even if they had no idea what they were doing in that game.

Can you name one weapon that was this hard to get?

Esplen.3940:

The precursor is not really that hard if you think about it. Instead of salvaging those rares you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of NPC’ing those greens you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of salvaging those exotics you get, stick them in the mystic toilet.

If you don’t like that method, run temples and world bosses, most servers do them daily.

If you don’t like that method, learn to save your money. If you’ve gotten ectos from salvaging your rares, don’t work towards making your infused fractal capacitor shiny, sell them on the TP to get your precursor. That lodestone and core you got from dungeon running? Sell them on the TP. Stop hoarding items and start liquidating your assets.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand, but it is SUPPOSED to be a long, slow, arduous process. If it was simply You put in X hours into this game, here’s a Legendary. it wouldn’t really be that amazing because everyone would get it after a few X hours of the games release.

Except that you don’t get that many rares or exotics. That temples and world bosses are not worth the cost of traveling there (a boss that don’t drop anything and a chest that drops three blues). And the precursor prices are out of reach for many.

And note that I don’t have problems with this being a slow process… as long as it is achievable.

Apolyon.6937:

Esplen.3940:

It was a 0.01% chance at the end of a dungeon with difficulty equivalent to Arah Path 4. Meaning you had to do Arah Path 4 ~10,000x to get it.

Sure, some people got it on their first runs, and others ran it more than the allotted 10,000x without getting it at all. Even with that in mind, everyone who saw the weapon was awed and bowed down to the person wielding it in terms of GW dedication, even if they had no idea what they were doing in that game.

Can you name one weapon that was this hard to get?

It’s been much to long, but that’s how I remembered it. I was waiting to do a dungeon run, and I saw someone with a Scythe that looked glowy. It could have just been Envoy, but it looked more like the Bifrost as a Scythe. It was a year and a half since I’ve actually played GW1 and I never played it too in-depth until the end.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Oglaf.1074:

Everyone can get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.

Are you seriously telling me Anet are stupid enough to let the exclusiveness of a Legendary all rest on the Precursor? Really? REALLY?!

You still don’t get it. “Everyone” can’t get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.

Gift of Exploration? Really? EVERYONE can get that?
Gift of Battle? Really? EVERYONE can get 500 Badges of Honor?

If you’re truly going to make broad accusations about the ENTIRE player base, you should really think about what the entire player base is actually capable of doing.

Stop thinking only of yourself and start thinking about the game as a whole.

These arguments you’re making are ridiculous and very short sighted.

As for making the exclusivity of a Legendary rely solely on the shoulders of the Precursor weapon…..maybe that was EXACTLY their intent. It’s actually a great way to do it if you really think about it. It would allow the ENTIRE player base to strive toward something….slowly, as intended….then when players get a precursor…they can either use it, or sell it to make money if it wasn’t the precursor they needed for THEIR Legendary.

Can everyone explore every part of the map? give me one reason why they wouldn’t be able to?

500 Honor badges, are you saying that everyone can’t do the jumping puzzles?

You are not making sense, sir.

Also I would like to note that you cannot compare the mystic clovers rng to precursor rng.

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

I know of plenty of people who have trouble keeping focus long enough to map complete and do jumping puzzles (even for simple vista’s). Just because you can do it doesn’t mean everyone else can. Sure, I was able to do mine, but I’m able to adapt.

The last bit is a tad confusing to me. They’re RNG, however, because they’re RNG, they ’re not comparable? Seems to me that you want to ignore that little facet.

Esplen.3940:

I’m sorry if you don’t understand, but it is SUPPOSED to be a long, slow, arduous process. If it was simply You put in X hours into this game, here’s a Legendary. it wouldn’t really be that amazing because everyone would get it after a few X hours of the games release.

It being a long term process is not the argument. It’s that the goal post keeps changing based on the whim of a select few of the player base.

That or it’s a completely random venture that doesn’t reward equally. Some invest 5 gold and get a precursor and some invest 500 and don’t. That’s not a fun process, an adventure, a journey, or any other mutation of the truth. It’s an unfair and frustrating punishment for those players that did nothing wrong but be unlucky.

Esplen.3940:

Have you played GW1? The super-shiny gear in GW1 were hard to obtain. I say this with the knowledge of your stance on that word.

It was a 0.01% chance at the end of a dungeon with difficulty equivalent to Arah Path 4. Meaning you had to do Arah Path 4 ~10,000x to get it.

Sure, some people got it on their first runs, and others ran it more than the allotted 10,000x without getting it at all. Even with that in mind, everyone who saw the weapon was awed and bowed down to the person wielding it in terms of GW dedication, even if they had no idea what they were doing in that game.

The precursor is not really that hard if you think about it. Instead of salvaging those rares you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of NPC’ing those greens you get, stick them in the mystic toilet. Instead of salvaging those exotics you get, stick them in the mystic toilet.

If you don’t like that method, run temples and world bosses, most servers do them daily.

If you don’t like that method, learn to save your money. If you’ve gotten ectos from salvaging your rares, don’t work towards making your infused fractal capacitor shiny, sell them on the TP to get your precursor. That lodestone and core you got from dungeon running? Sell them on the TP. Stop hoarding items and start liquidating your assets.

I’m sorry if you don’t understand, but it is SUPPOSED to be a long, slow, arduous process. If it was simply You put in X hours into this game, here’s a Legendary. it wouldn’t really be that amazing because everyone would get it after a few X hours of the games release.

Yes I played GW1, but that isn’t relevant. I’ve also played WoW, and LOTRO, and Rift, and Super Mario 1, and Final Fantasy 1 through 12, and Ultima 1 through 9, and a couple hundred other games. But that’s not remotely relevant either.

Your argument about GW1 is the same as saying something like “In the medieval times it’s was acceptable to murder, kitten pillage, and plunder and entire village. So if someone only does that to a single family it’s not too bad by comparison. We really shouldn’t be upset about it.”

Better than bad does not make something good. Terrible argument.

I agree completely that getting a legendary isn’t hard. That was the point I was trying to make.

I do understand getting a legendary is supposed to be a slow arduous process. My problem is with your statement:

“If it was simply You put in X hours into this game, here’s a Legendary. it wouldn’t really be that amazing because everyone would get it after a few X hours of the games release.”

That is exactly what it is currently. The fact that legendaries can be purchased on the TP makes it a case of “put X hours into the game,” or “put X amount of money into the game.”

Again if you remove the TP from the equation but treat X as a variable rather than a constant it is still the case that “put X hours into the game” is how you obtain a legendary. Unfortunately for some people ‘X hours’ is ten times or more the number of hours someone else put in. Bob might only spend 200 hours getting his legendary but Joe had to spend 2000 hours because the mystic toilet just gave Joe a giant middle finger for 1800 hours.

From the perspective you seem to be advocating Joe is far more worthy of praise and admiration than Bob. Bob had his legendary ‘handed to him’ whereas Joe really had to ‘work for it’.

Personally I’d rather see precursors dropped with something like a 5% to 15% chance at the end of something difficult to accomplish and be account bound than the current system. Examples of actual ‘hard content’ could include: The Clocktower (I found it easy so maybe it should be a longer and more challenging JP), a difficult dungeon like Arah explorable (not sure Arah explorable is actually hard enough), or taking Stonemist (lower chance here maybe, but you should be able to get precursors in WvW).

At least that way a legendary actually requires accomplishing something other than beating your head against a wall until it breaks.

Geikamir.6329:

It’s an unfair and frustrating punishment for those players that did nothing wrong but be unlucky.

Simply not being lucky does not make oneself unlucky.

Think about it. Also, stop trying to rush it. If you want to rush it, take the trading post route and stop complaining. Sure, it MIGHT be getting manipulated by a few people, but you know what? If you had the money and the knowhow, you probably would too, especially if people would be willing to buy [into] it.

Heck, I’d do it if I knew I was making a profit simply because I know people are [grudging yet] willing to buy these items.

The majority of the community complains about getting Legendary [precursors]. Why? Because it does not conform to their lazy ways. If you stop being lazy and stop thinking about it as something you can get *NOW*, life becomes so much easier.

It’s a goal. Think of it as such.

Another goal, as an example to how you should think of goals, is 100% Achievements. Do you expect to have that done in a month of playing? Do you expect to be able to do that on one character?

If we’re arguing about things that can’t be done in an easy manner, let me complain about 100% Achievements. Why can’t I complete all the achievements on my one character? Why do I have to re-roll for race so I can complete my achievements? Why do I have to pick a different Order to complete my achievements? Why do I have to re-roll for profession so I can complete my achievements (weapon slayer)?

Hmm? Hmmm? Hmmmmmmmm?

Unspecified.9142:

Personally I’d rather see precursors dropped with something like a 5% to 15% chance at the end of something difficult to accomplish and be account bound than the current system. Examples of actual ‘hard content’ could include: The Clocktower (I found it easy so maybe it should be a longer and more challenging JP), a difficult dungeon like Arah explorable (not sure Arah explorable is actually hard enough), or taking Stonemist (lower chance here maybe, but you should be able to get precursors in WvW).

At least that way a legendary actually requires accomplishing something other than beating your head against a wall until it breaks.

So then a guild dedicated to doing Pv[insert whatever you’re talking about for the 5-15% chance here] will be able to farm them and control the market. Yayyyyyy.

Think about it, there are hardcore Dungeon guilds that run through arah p4 easy peasy. They just don’t. Why? They don’t get anything out of it other than a few measly tokens which they can get for a lot less time and effort doing other paths.

WvW? People break down those gates on a daily basis, depending on the server.

There is no method that has been suggested that would stop people from farming it, therefore allowing them to control the market on it.

Additionally, adding a chance like 5-15% would increase the amount in circulation by such a large margin that Legendaries would mean even less than they currently do, which isn’t saying much.

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

wall of text

Take the hint, buddy.

Oh, no! How dare someone expect me to read on a forum?

Seriously, though, when did “wall of text” switch from meaning “giant post with little/no punctuation and no paragraph divisions” to “anything longer than a paragraph”?

Anyway, to all those complaining about the methods of getting precursors: The methods are fine if you actually use them. Weigh the costs of throwing rares into the forge versus the costs of buying it on the TP, and go with whichever is cheaper.

Take, for instance, Zap (I’m slowly working towards Bolt atm). The current lowest sale order is 390g. For that much, you could buy nearly 1,100 rare swords and throw them into the forge. That’s 275 attempts right off the bat, up to about 360 attempts overall if you throw all the results back. With the 1/6 rate of upgrade that I’ve heard elsewhere, that’s 64 exotics off the initial batch?

Or, you can instead toss in cheap exotics. The cheapest buy orders at the moment are around 1g, so you should be able to get about 390 of them, give or take. Call that 97 exotics back from the initial batch, another 24 or 25 after that, then another 6. . .yeah odds are good that somewhere in those 130 exotics, you have a precursor.

Or, hey, if you have 390 gold to gamble with, you also have 390 gold to just buy the darn thing.

And, of course, in the process of earning all that gold, you’ll be doing events which have a chance to drop it, or drop other exotics, or other rares to MF. . .

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It’s an unfair and frustrating punishment for those players that did nothing wrong but be unlucky.

Simply not being lucky does not make oneself unlucky.

Think about it. Also, stop trying to rush it. If you want to rush it, take the trading post route and stop complaining. Sure, it MIGHT be getting manipulated by a few people, but you know what? If you had the money and the knowhow, you probably would too, especially if people would be willing to buy [into] it.

Heck, I’d do it if I knew I was making a profit simply because I know people are [grudging yet] willing to buy these items.

The majority of the community complains about getting Legendary [precursors]. Why? Because it does not conform to their lazy ways. If you stop being lazy and stop thinking about it as something you can get *NOW*, life becomes so much easier.

It’s a goal. Think of it as such.

Another goal, as an example to how you should think of goals, is 100% Achievements. Do you expect to have that done in a month of playing? Do you expect to be able to do that on one character?

If we’re arguing about things that can’t be done in an easy manner, let me complain about 100% Achievements. Why can’t I complete all the achievements on my one character? Why do I have to re-roll for race so I can complete my achievements? Why do I have to pick a different Order to complete my achievements? Why do I have to re-roll for profession so I can complete my achievements (weapon slayer)?

Hmm? Hmmm? Hmmmmmmmm?

Lazy has 100% NOTHING to do with this argument.

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Iures.2894:

Iehova.9518:

Esplen.3940:

wall of text

Take the hint, buddy.

Oh, no! How dare someone expect me to read on a forum?

Seriously, though, when did “wall of text” switch from meaning “giant post with little/no punctuation and no paragraph divisions” to “anything longer than a paragraph”?

Anyway, to all those complaining about the methods of getting precursors: The methods are fine if you actually use them. Weigh the costs of throwing rares into the forge versus the costs of buying it on the TP, and go with whichever is cheaper.

Take, for instance, Zap (I’m slowly working towards Bolt atm). The current lowest sale order is 390g. For that much, you could buy nearly 1,100 rare swords and throw them into the forge. That’s 275 attempts right off the bat, up to about 360 attempts overall if you throw all the results back. With the 1/6 rate of upgrade that I’ve heard elsewhere, that’s 64 exotics off the initial batch?

Or, you can instead toss in cheap exotics. The cheapest buy orders at the moment are around 1g, so you should be able to get about 390 of them, give or take. Call that 97 exotics back from the initial batch, another 24 or 25 after that, then another 6. . .yeah odds are good that somewhere in those 130 exotics, you have a precursor.

Or, hey, if you have 390 gold to gamble with, you also have 390 gold to just buy the darn thing.

And, of course, in the process of earning all that gold, you’ll be doing events which have a chance to drop it, or drop other exotics, or other rares to MF. . .

All of which I summed up in my “lolohgawdwalloftext”. Also, the estimated rare—>exotic is 1/5.

Geikamir.6329:

Lazy has 100% NOTHING to do with this argument.

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

That’s a terrible analogy. It’s more like, you can choose to put part of your paycheck into a die roll.

It’s lazy to just avoid the system altogether. You’re saying that the system is bad because you’re forced to use the Trading Post. You are, in no way, forced to use the Trading post. It’s lazy of you to ignore a method and say that you HAVE to use a different method and that it’s a stupid method.

You have three methods which you can choose. If you don’t like any of the three methods, that’s your opinion, so you can choose to not get one, or to bear through it. Regardless of your choice, they are still the choices available. I don’t see what the problem is at all.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Lazy has 100% NOTHING to do with this argument.

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

That’s a terrible analogy. It’s more like, you can choose to put part of your paycheck into a die roll.

It’s lazy to just avoid the system altogether. You’re saying that the system is bad because you’re forced to use the Trading Post. You are, in no way, forced to use the Trading post. It’s lazy of you to ignore a method and say that you HAVE to use a different method and that it’s a stupid method.

You have three methods which you can choose. If you don’t like any of the three methods, that’s your opinion, so you can choose to not get one, or to bear through it. Regardless of your choice, they are still the choices available. I don’t see what the problem is at all.

Ok, to analyze the second part of the process: the TP.

Now imagine that you work at a company with millions of employees. Some of the employees that rolled really high numbers in a row have bought out your stock in the company, which is your only wage. To receive the stock, they get to decide how many hours you have to work for it. Not only do random employees get to decide your pay, but they keep adding on extra hours to the agreement every time you get close.

Keep in mind that they work the exact same job as you.

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

Geikamir.6329:

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Milton Friedman would be proud of The Authority’s lack of intervention. He loved laziness.

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

Calcifire.1864:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

I find it amusing that those who are complaining about precursors have yet to answer any of my questions. I will quote them again….and add a few more for giggles.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?

Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?

Is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you?

Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it?

Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach?

Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon?

Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies?

Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon?

What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward?

Will you leave the game because you’re “done”?

New questions:

Are you going for a Legendary because ArenaNet said that Legendaries will always be Best In Slot and match up with Ascended weapons when they’re released?

Are those Ascended weapons in the game yet?

Do you have time to hope RNG will be in your favor by the time those are released?

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

Calcifire.1864:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

not easier, but it takes the edge off

let’s take a theoretical example of two guys on excercise bikes pedalling for a thousand miles, on one a tank slowly fills with water, when it hits the top, a light turns on, on the other there is no tank.

if you toil all day in the hope that the light turns on you’ll start to have doubt eat away at you “will the light turn on soon? how long have I been doing this? am I just being messed with?”

if you can see the tank, you are sure there is progress occurring, you can see where you are, it could only require that final push and seeing the last little bit of water filling the tank could be what you need for that last boost of motivation.

it may be the same task, but which one is going to FEEL easier? a seemingly arbitrary end point, or a progress bar? and which of those is going to affect your mood and willingness to press on?

hell there’s an example in the personal story, when holding out in claw island you nearly always thing “will these undead waves ever end?”, now compare that to a timer or “faction control” bar. it’s an incredibly effective interface decision because it makes you think that there will be no end :P

@Charismatic Harm

I’m on your side and I didn’t even notice them. Here are my answers, regardless.

• So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
  Ans: It does, I am currently ~40 in, yet I don’t really work towards them. I’ll craft them occasionally when I have the feels.

• Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
  Ans: I just play the game and I get them. If I ever don’t have enough, I’ll put in my skill points towards getting more at a STABLE rate, instead of using RNG to accommodate my want of more.

• Is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you?
  Ans: In terms of individuality, yes. In terms of how many I need for a legendary, I have given no thought towards that, nor do I care to.

• Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a *Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it?
  Ans:* It should, which is why I believe Precursors are at a great point. The manipulation is done by the rich who aim to be richer. The complaints are done by the people aiming towards helping the rich (if you think about it, all the people complaining here are most likely the ones going to the Trading Post to buy the Precursors, in the end).

• Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach?
  Ans: I’m mad… at myself, for not buying Chaos Gun and Bolt when they were 50g and I could afford them. Heck, I’m mad at myself for not buying gems when they were a few silver per 100.

• Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon?
  Ans: I like The Quip’s sounds and I like the idea of clowns. I also love Swords, I carry 9 Exotic Swords with me at all times.

• Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies?
  Ans: Yes, I carry the swords to show off, but I also carry them because I like them. I like them because they’re unique skins that most people don’t care to go for, e.g. Wooden Sword of Earth. Who would wear a Wooden Sword at level 80? And no, I’m not talking about the two Wintersday skins.

• Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon?
  Ans: Well, Ascended Weapons are going to be easier to get than a Legendary, so why should I worry about that? Exotics were easy as heck to get and most people transmuted their Legendaries so they aren’t Purple anymore, anyways.

• What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward?
  Ans: I’ll finally have no excuse to finish my other gear sets and get 20 slot bags to take over my 15 slot bags. And then I’ll just do what I’m doing now. Getting on GW2 to do whatever I want, whenever I want. I have no goals right now other than to play the game and make more money so I can play the game.

• Will you leave the game because you’re “done”?
  Ans: That’s a harsh question. I don’t know if and when I’ll ever be done, maybe when the market gets to a point where I can’t trade on it at all, but I think ANet will step in if something like that happens.

• Are you going for a Legendary because ArenaNet said that Legendaries will always be Best In Slot and match up with Ascended weapons when they’re released?
  Ans: I couldn’t care less. Bifrost looks nice, Zap is nice (although I prefer when a Sword’s effect is on the… Sword… only), and The Quip has amazing sounds, but The Quip only has 1 skill on it that would make the sound and it has a 20 second cooldown for me. As for your question, I already answered it with the fact that Ascended Weapons will be easier to get. Additionally, they will most likely release higher tiers of weapons and they are planning on expansions.

• Are those Ascended weapons in the game yet?
  Ans: No.

• Do you have time to hope RNG will be in your favor by the time those are released?
  Ans: I always have time to hope. I highly doubt it will, but I can always hope and dream… like last night, I dreamt that my brother got married to some lady that got into a car crash with my dad, my brother, and I. She then decided that it was fair to trade her beat up car for our car and then somehow she started dating my brother and then they got married because she sent him a tablet containing photos. I also had really large boobs.

Calcifire.1864:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

Calcifire.1864:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

not easier, but it takes the edge off

let’s take a theoretical example of two guys on excercise bikes pedalling for a thousand miles, on one a tank slowly fills with water, when it hits the top, a light turns on, on the other there is no tank.

if you toil all day in the hope that the light turns on you’ll start to have doubt eat away at you “will the light turn on soon? how long have I been doing this? am I just being messed with?”

if you can see the tank, you are sure there is progress occurring, you can see where you are, it could only require that final push and seeing the last little bit of water filling the tank could be what you need for that last boost of motivation.

it may be the same task, but which one is going to FEEL easier? a seemingly arbitrary end point, or a progress bar? and which of those is going to affect your mood and willingness to press on?

hell there’s an example in the personal story, when holding out in claw island you nearly always thing “will these undead waves ever end?”, now compare that to a timer or “faction control” bar. it’s an incredibly effective interface decision because it makes you think that there will be no end :P

Did. . .you essentially just admit that your primary complaint is that you can’t motivate yourself?

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

Calcifire.1864:

I don’t see your point here. You’re basically saying that because your progress is tangible on the Clovers, it’s easier?

not easier, but it takes the edge off

let’s take a theoretical example of two guys on excercise bikes pedalling for a thousand miles, on one a tank slowly fills with water, when it hits the top, a light turns on, on the other there is no tank.

if you toil all day in the hope that the light turns on you’ll start to have doubt eat away at you “will the light turn on soon? how long have I been doing this? am I just being messed with?”

if you can see the tank, you are sure there is progress occurring, you can see where you are, it could only require that final push and seeing the last little bit of water filling the tank could be what you need for that last boost of motivation.

it may be the same task, but which one is going to FEEL easier? a seemingly arbitrary end point, or a progress bar? and which of those is going to affect your mood and willingness to press on?

hell there’s an example in the personal story, when holding out in claw island you nearly always thing “will these undead waves ever end?”, now compare that to a timer or “faction control” bar. it’s an incredibly effective interface decision because it makes you think that there will be no end :P

I’d rather have the one with no progress bar. Why? I could always hope that I’m right at the end. I could give myself the false illusion that I’m at the final stretch and that there is something/someone waiting at the end.

If there is a progress bar, I would only be able to say: Ugh, I still have that much left…

Iures.2894:

Did. . .you essentially just admit that your primary complaint is that you can’t motivate yourself?

That’s not my complaint. I have no motivation to get a Legendary because they do not pique my interest. Well, they do, however I have other things that I would rather get first, and I can easily collect my way towards both of them at the same time. I’m taking a really, really slow path to getting my Legendary. Think of it as the race between the tortoise and the hare. I’m the tortoise, you’re the hare. I don’t really care about the end, but I’ll go to it since there’s not much else I can do with my excess goods. You’re rushing to the end because you want that little bit of shiny.

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

While we’re talking about how it’s soooo hard to get a Precursor, I’d like to point you all to this nice thread that was posted a while ago:
Source

People have this unhealthy fixation on precursors. They seem to think that they are horribly expensive and everyone seems to have all 3 legendary gifts ready but the evil precursors are holding them back. This thread is designed to put some actual numbers to those claims and see what the costs actually are and how they compare.

I will not talk about the Gift of Mastery because none of the parts can be bought, they are all earned through various play styles.

First lets look at the gift of Fortune:

T6 mats- 250 of each type. Given market buy prices this will cost 249g as of writing. Using market sell prices this will cost 264g
250 ectos= 94g
77mystic clovers- 94g for ectos and 20g for mystic coins

Total cost = 457g

Next the Gift of " ". This one is different for different weapons, but I will look at the cost of 3 of the more popular ones. Bolt, Twilight and Incinerator.

Gift of Bolt: 475g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of lightning: 358g
-100 Charged lodestone- 330g
-250 Ori ingot- 16.5g
-250 bolt of gossomer- 12.4g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Twlight:312.5g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Gift of Darkness: 193.5g
-100 lodestones- 175g
– 250 Ori- 16.5g
-250 leather- 2g
Gift of Metal: 19g

Gift of Incinerator:309g
Icy Runestone: 100g
Vial of liquid flame:
-Molten lodestone- 65g
-Destroyer lodestone- 125g
Gift of Metal- 19g

Finally lets look at the prices of the precursors for these same 3:

Zap: 320-390g
Dusk: 620-700g
Spark: 570-620g

As we can see, if you are making Bolt, the precursor is actually the cheapest part of the legendary. If you are making Twlight or Incinerator then the cost of the precursor is still less then the cost of the other 2 gifts.

The problem is you can break apart the other gifts and slowly buy the parts you need. For the precursors people need to save up a lump sum, and most people don’t have the self control to do that. They spend spend spend, instead of saving. If you actually have the other 2 gifts then you are capable of getting your precursor, you just need to stop spending and start saving.

The precursor prices have risen at roughly the same rate as the cost of the other gifts. As mats get more expensive, so do the things those mats are used to make.

Calcifire.1864:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

even if the chances of getting a perfect run of clovers is less than the chances of getting a precursor, the difference is that getting a precursor is binary, either you get one or you don’t.

even if you get the average of 33%, at least you feel like you’re progressing, with a precursor you can work for months without getting the drop and feel like all your time is wasted.

you can get 35 clovers and think “sweet, I’m about halfway!”, you can’t get halfway to a precursor (unless you buy one, and then you’re just playing into the hands of the uber rich, allowing them to buy up more precursors and tighten their hold on the market)

I’m not talking about getting a perfect run, though. I’m just talking about getting them. And getting clovers is just as binary as getting the precursor: You put mats in, you either get a clover or you don’t—and you have to come up on the “get a clover” side 77 times.

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

When the one you have to complete once is in a pool of 40ish rares, and 20ish exotics, and only has about a 1/5 of even being an exotic, then yes, the mystic clovers arn’t nearly as rng as the precursor..

Not even considering that exo most likely have a lower general chance compared to other exotics

Its almost like comparing a coin flip to playing the lottery.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Iures.2894:

Geikamir.6329:

Imagine you worked a job and at the end of every week instead of having a wage you rolled a die and whatever it landed on you were paid. Now imagine that your friend rolls 10,000 multiple times in a row, but for the past 6 months you’ve only rolled a 10. And you both do the exact same work.

It’s not fun, fair, or work. People that are unlucky are not lazy.

Imagine that you and your friend work the same job and got the same wages, but at the end of the week you routinely go to a unique gambling establishment. The rules for this establishment are that the worst you’ll walk away with is 25% of the buy-in, and the best is about 1,100 times the buy-in. You don’t know all the odds, but estimates say you have about a 20% chance of coming out slightly ahead, better odds if you game the system a little.

You can gamble, and your buddy can save up. It’s the same result either way.

What’s unfair about this?

My post directly above yours addressed the TP side of things.

If there was an NPC that sold precursors for a SET amount, this whole issue would already have been alleviated already.

There is an NPC. It’s called the Trading Post and he sells it for 800g.

Sarcasm aside, you realize that the analogy being made to yours had no unfairness. If you spend your money gambling… you’re gambling. Get over the fact that you lost money.

If you buy a lotto ticket every week, you aren’t guaranteed to win the lotto.

If your friend buys one lotto ticket and you’ve bought one every week since the beginning of the lotto, and your friend wins the lotto, is that unfair?

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

The whole game is a lottery.
Nearly every single aspect is a roll in the background, be it if the boss 1hits you or if you loot an exotic or play the forge lottery.
I can do 20 runs with the exact same dungeon group. At the end of those runs not everyone will have earned the same in regards of mob/boss loot itemwise.
So you will always have it that player a has other results after doing the exact same thing for the exact same time as player b.

goldi.3129:

The whole game is a lottery.
Nearly every single aspect is a roll in the background, be it if the boss 1hits you or if you loot an exotic or play the forge lottery.
I can do 20 runs with the exact same dungeon group. At the end of those runs not everyone will have earned the same in regards of mob/boss loot itemwise.
So you will always have it that player a has other results after doing the exact same thing for the exact same time as player b.

Actually a boss 1hitting you is not just a lottery, there are too many variables for it to be just that. I see your point, I just had to point out that flaw.

Good analogy, it directly relates to the game.

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

Every video that has items that can be purchased for a set amount. Every game has this. Some games also have unfair elements, as well. Such as this precursor fiasco.

@Esplen—That post was actually aimed at Calcifire. Your post wasn’t there when I started typing. :p

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Iures.2894:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Mystic clovers rng should not be compared to precursor rng.. the only similarity is that both have a RNG elements, the amount of rng differs so much however, that this is where the similarities stop.

Wait, so an RNG element that is ~33% chance and you have to complete 77 times is better than the RNG element that you only have to complete once? You sure about that?

When the one you have to complete once is in a pool of 40ish rares, and 20ish exotics, and only has about a 1/5 of even being an exotic, then yes, the mystic clovers arn’t nearly as rng as the precursor..

Not even considering that exo most likely have a lower general chance compared to other exotics

Its almost like comparing a coin flip to playing the lottery.

So, remove the rares from the table by gambling with exotics. You’re bettering your odds and not costing yourself anything. And getting a 1/20 result once isn’t going to take as many tries as getting a 1/3 result 77 times, barring extreme outliers. . .

RNG by itself is not the problem. It’s the level of achievement granted to those that are lucky and those that are not. If you don’t get an ecto from a rare salvage you are out only 40s and you have a GOOD chance to get an ecto the next couple times.

If you gamble for a precursor you can spend often 600+ gold with no success. The chance is too small and the reward is too large. It’s just not conducive to fun for anyone but the lucky.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

Every video that has items that can be purchased for a set amount. Every game has this. Some games also have unfair elements, as well. Such as this precursor fiasco.

Stop stepping around the question. You’re trying to say that this game NEEDS to have a[nother] method to get a Precursor. Why?

If you have proof that it works, give me that proof in a video game (MMORPG) that has no unfair qualities. Please. Do tell, I’ve been wanting to play that game for over a decade.

Iures.2894:

@Esplen—That post was actually aimed at Calcifire. Your post wasn’t there when I started typing. :p

So, remove the rares from the table by gambling with exotics. You’re bettering your odds and not costing yourself anything. And getting a 1/20 result once isn’t going to take as many tries as getting a 1/3 result 77 times, barring extreme outliers. . .

Hehe, I know the feels, I’d type a huge rant and see that someone already posted my response. QQ.

And bell curves are bells because of the outlying extremities. Sad truth is sad.

Geikamir.6329:

RNG by itself is not the problem. It’s the level of achievement granted to those that are lucky and those that are not. If you don’t get an ecto from a rare salvage you are out only 40s and you have a GOOD chance to get an ecto the next couple times.

If you gamble for a precursor you can spend often 600+ gold with no success. The chance is too small and the reward is too large. It’s just not conducive to fun for anyone but the lucky.

Who said anything about getting a Legendary is fun? The more and harder you have to work for it, the more rewarding it is. You can keep crying to make it easier, but it won’t be an achievement if Arenanet just says: “Oh, everyone who’s played the game 1,000 hours since release and/or spent $50 on gems and/or obtained Dungeon Master and/or obtained 500g shall get a free Legendary! Why? Because it’s too hard!”

2/20 assuming the odds for precursors are same as any other exotic, which i highly doubt.

You are also gonna most likely lose 3/4’s of your investment everytime, not to mention you.

If it was anywhere near as predictable as you seem to think it is lures, the prices of dusk and dawn would be no where what they are today, because the market would be overflooded with them.

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

It is most definitely unfair. The lottery is unfair, so using it as an justified example it how you think something is fair doesn’t make sense.

Two people can work with exactly the same amount of effort and be rewarded differently. That is exactly: Unfair.

So what’s the problem? It’s a system meant to be difficult. You’re playing against the house. It’s meant to be unfair. What do?

Again, random chance doesn’t equate to difficulty.

Also you say “It’s meant to be unfair”. So you are advocating for game designers to purposely make video games to be unfair? Let’s give people with red hair 100g at the beginning of the game. Or tall people a legendary on character creation. It’s great game design!

So, name one video game (MMORPG) that isn’t unfair. Please, do tell.

Every video that has items that can be purchased for a set amount. Every game has this. Some games also have unfair elements, as well. Such as this precursor fiasco.

Stop stepping around the question. You’re trying to say that this game NEEDS to have a[nother] method to get a Precursor. Why?

If you have proof that it works, give me that proof in a video game (MMORPG) that has no unfair qualities. Please. Do tell, I’ve been wanting to play that game for over a decade.

Geikamir.6329:

RNG by itself is not the problem. It’s the level of achievement granted to those that are lucky and those that are not. If you don’t get an ecto from a rare salvage you are out only 40s and you have a GOOD chance to get an ecto the next couple times.

If you gamble for a precursor you can spend often 600+ gold with no success. The chance is too small and the reward is too large. It’s just not conducive to fun for anyone but the lucky.

Who said anything about getting a Legendary is fun? The more and harder you have to work for it, the more rewarding it is. You can keep crying to make it easier, but it won’t be an achievement if Arenanet just says: “Oh, everyone who’s played the game 1,000 hours since release and/or spent $50 on gems and/or obtained Dungeon Master and/or obtained 500g shall get a free Legendary! Why? Because it’s too hard!”

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

AreUMadBro.6907:

Just asking you guys to pay attention to it, 10 dusk were sold-retired from the market in 3 days, now there is only 4 left. They are going to increase the price again.

I didn’t read this thread but I thought i’d at least comment on the very large error in the OP here…

There are approximately 10 Dusks sold on the TP every 24 hours… You seem to have misplaced 20 or so in your OP. Whatever you seem to think is going on probably isn’t since you are only accounting for ~30% of the actual trades…

If you are talking about sell orders listed dropped from 14 to 4, then that just means more people bought dusks straight up then were fulfilled from Buy orders. This number fluctuates constantly. I hope you aren’t getting your data from GW2spidy which only updates precursor prices a couple times a day…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I didn’t read this thread but I thought i’d at least comment on the very large error in the OP here…

OMG!!! You should!!! There is some comedic GOLD in this thread.

If for nothing else, you’ll find a couple of people that keep repeating the same thing over and over again without any evidence to back up their claims. Also, you’ll find these same people dodging answering specific questions by repeating their claims again.

I’m actually laughing at this point….probably from the pain of beating my head against the wall.

I think I have dain bramage.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I didn’t read this thread but I thought i’d at least comment on the very large error in the OP here…

OMG!!! You should!!! There is some comedic GOLD in this thread.

If for nothing else, you’ll find a couple of people that keep repeating the same thing over and over again without any evidence to back up their claims. Also, you’ll find these same people dodging answering specific questions by repeating their claims again.

I’m actually laughing at this point….probably from the pain of beating my head against the wall.

I think I have dain bramage.

I’m too bramn dired for daim tamage. But it’s just circles and circles. They ignore anything that retorts them well and just move onto dodging bushes. Weeeeeeee. I wish I could sidestep like that.

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

1. Any? I seem to recall Skyrim having a terrible conversion rate. Also, this IS an MMO… therefore it’s comparable to other… MMO’s.
2. Neither of us worked harder, however are you going to stop because I did? That’s where working harder to achieve it comes it. If you give up, that’s your call, however you’re not supposed to give up until you achieve what you want or are done.
3. There is.

Also, I prefer…

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

Proof?

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

So everyone who can buy a dusk is a botter now.
Thankfully we have people like you who collect the evidence of who is botting and who isn’t.

goldi.3129:

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

So everyone who can buy a dusk is a botter now.
Thankfully we have people like you who collect the evidence of who is botting and who isn’t.

Men, you need reading classes. Or glasses. Maybe both. If u have a twilight or a dusk, nice. But sell on TP its a different thing. I myself have over 600g and I dont consider myself a botter. LOL
They own this market and are taking advantage of this.
And forgot to ask if you are mad. Are you?

mm, the last dusk just got taken of the market, something bad is definatly coming..

AreUMadBro.6907:

goldi.3129:

AreUMadBro.6907:

How many Dusks you guys can see at TP? 0. Yes, told ya. Now lets see what price they will make us pay(and yes, whoever is the group doing this, its a group that owns bot accounts)

So everyone who can buy a dusk is a botter now.
Thankfully we have people like you who collect the evidence of who is botting and who isn’t.

Men, you need reading classes. Or glasses. Maybe both. If u have a twilight or a dusk, nice. But sell on TP its a different thing. I myself have over 600g and I dont consider myself a botter. LOL

Was there any point you wanted to bring with those lines? Shall I pull out the <sarcasm> tags for you the next time?

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

mm, the last dusk just got taken of the market, something bad is definatly coming..

I hope so. Personally….I can’t wait to see the price of Dusk greater than the price of Twilight. THAT will be a great day.

So those advocating for the current system accuse the other side of ignoring arguments while ignoring arguments and attempt to derail the conversation is half statements and my little pony pictures….

I don’t really want to repeat my large post on page 2 which has gone without reply but I’ll add something:

There’s a big difference between a 33% chance (mystic clovers) and a 0.01% chance. Specifically 33% is 3,300 times greater.

One individual can easily see a 33% chance of something happening average out across their own personal trials. Statistically you shouldn’t have to do it more than 5 or 6 times to see one success. Eventually it will average out to 33% but one individual is not guaranteed a success at an exact rate of 1 in 3 but greater than 1 in 6 is statistically improbable over even as little as 100 trials.

It IS statistically probably for someone to run 20,000 trials and never see a success with a 0.01% chance where another person sees 2 or 3 successes in 10,000 trials. Obviously a 0.01% chance will average out eventually with a large enough sample size. Unfortunately the sample size required is so astronomically high that one individual cannot be reasonably expected to run that many trials.

As an example I’ll use Light Bags of Skritt Shinies. These have a roughly 1% chance of giving a Silver Doubloon. I’ve opened somewhere between 20,000 and 30,000 of these (didn’t count might be more) when Silver Doubloons were selling for ~40s and the bags were around 50c (I made a sizable profit on this). Any given stack of 250 would give anywhere from zero to 4 Doubloons but it always averaged out to around 2.5 doubloons per stack. The thing is I could open 500 bags and get 1 doubloon and it wasn’t out of the ordinary. It was literally necessary to open several thousand at once for it to average out and show a profit.

The same thing applies to crafting and salvaging rares for ectos (when the market permits a profit with the 80%-90% chance of ectos). You need to make and salvage 200-250 rares to ensure the law of averages kicks in and you don’t lose money because of a bad run of salvages.

I don’t know that anyone really knows the rate at which precursors pop from the forge but the percentage is low and the cost per trial is high. The problem many people have is simply that the number of trials required for it to average out is too high for an individual and combined with the cost per trial it’s just painful to pursue.

Why the focus on the individual seeing it average out? Because quite frankly no one who is chasing a legendary gives to craps if combining their 500 failed trials with Bobs one successful trial produces a nice average of 1/250. All the individual cares about is that they tried 500 times and failed. The law of averages obviously applies when all trials by all players are taken in aggregate but the individual doesn’t care about the aggregate because that doesn’t help the individual in any way shape or form.

Hey guys, remember. Sell orders =/= supply.

Unspecified.9142:

-snip-

The reason why we ignored your post is because you unintentionally advocated us. There’s a reason why the people who went to argue your reasoning were the people whose side you were on. I don’t see how your points go and benefit the side that says Precursors lolomfgneed2beasier