Guild Wars 2

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

If you are lucky enough to come across a high end item you want to get rid of quickly, you are punished and sometimes have to come up with an a very large listing fee just to complete the buy order.

I am suggesting that they keep the listing fee price for all Buy Orders, but move the fee to the end of the transaction. So if you have a item and see a Buy order that you want to sell to, the transaction will take place and then all taxes removed and then you can pick up the difference from a BLTPnpc. So it will not reduce or remove any fee that you are already paying, just place it at the end of the transaction removing the fees from the gold that you get in the end instead of fronting gold.

That sounds fair to me. It’s not like you could default on paying, you’re guaranteed to have the gold to cover the fee as soon as the item sells and the gold will be taken from you.

what happens when you list 250 of an item for which a buy order of 249 exists

do you disallow this action, take a listing fee for 1, or shift the listing fee to afterwards?

option 3 means you get a free relist, defeating its purpose.

From how I understand the OP, you couldn’t do that. Because you’d be filling the buy order, which is for 249, using the Sell to Highest Bidder option.

I remember this discussion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Selling-Tax/first

Alternate fees for selling direct to highest buyer were discussed.

insanemaniac.2456:

what happens when you list 250 of an item for which a buy order of 249 exists

do you disallow this action, take a listing fee for 1, or shift the listing fee to afterwards?

option 3 means you get a free relist, defeating its purpose.

Nothing since we are talking about two different things…..If you LIST an item it goes up on the TP at whatever price you select. The BUYER then can purchase when he sees it. The item leaves your possession when you list thus a Listing fee applies.

If you are SELLING to the highest BUY ORDER you are not LISTING at all, you the seller sees the Buy Order and accept the buyers offer and sell the item(s) to him and the item goes directly to the buyer to be picked up at TPnpc and all taxes are removed from the gold you would receive and you pick up the difference at the TPnpc.

If you are selling 250 of an item to the highest BO then 249 would have the right amount of tax applied to the end and the one left would go to the next highest BO with the right amount of tax applied to the end of that transaction. That is if you just hit sell instead of actually looking at how many said BO are wanted.

This would take the gold out of a gold sink and basically give it to flippers.

Wanze.8410:

This would take the gold out of a gold sink and basically give it to flippers.

Please EXPLAIN HOW this will take the gold out of the gold sink? First let me point out that the seller is paying all the taxes not the buyer/flipper. If a Flip is done the buyer/flipper makes his BO offer and pays no taxes on it, then when he has the item and sales it he has to sale it higher than the 15% to make money cause he’s now a seller and has to pay those taxes.
Since we all think we are reading something other than what I am saying…..the gold sink stays the exact same as it is now.

When you LIST an item to sale it gets 5% taken at list time then it sets on the TP until someone buys it then a 10% is taken from the end and you pick up the difference. When you SALE an item to the highest bidder in a Buy Order 5% is taken as you the seller makes the sale(meaning it leaves your possession and goes to the possession of the buyer right then and there)then 10% is taken from the end and you the seller pick up the difference.
That is how this works right now, unless I have some misunderstanding on how it works.

My suggestion:
When you LIST an item to sale it gets 5% taken at list time then it sets on the TP until someone buys it then a 10% is taken from the end and you pick up the difference. When you SALE an item to the highest bidder in a Buy Order 0% is taken as you the seller makes the sale(meaning it leaves your possession and goes to the possession of the buyer right then and there)then 15% is taken from the end and you the seller pick up the difference.

The gold is collected if you LIST to keep you from listing/canceling and listing again and again. The gold is collected from the BO as at the time of sale you will no longer have possession of the item and can not re list the item. Taking the gold after the sale is made, will allow a seller to sale without having to have gold of his own.

why do you assume i did not comprehend your suggestion?
i comprehend it fine, and i see you suggesting arbitrarily increased complexity in the system, and i dont think thats necessary. and i want to know what your solution to potential gaming of the system would be, cuz idk if youve thought about abuse cases cuz im not in your head.

no need to be rude or frustrated.

insanemaniac.2456:

why do you assume i did not comprehend your suggestion?
i comprehend it fine, and i see you suggesting arbitrarily increased complexity in the system, and i dont think thats necessary. and i want to know what your solution to potential gaming of the system would be, cuz idk if youve thought about abuse cases cuz im not in your head.

no need to be rude or frustrated.

At no point in my comment was I trying to be rude to you, the Caps was to show a difference between listing on the tp and selling to a buy order. Which was not meant to be rude, just the clarification between the two types, that yes some of the replies seem to indicate that there is a loss of understanding of how I intended for the system to function. Frustrated I will give you that, as it was easily done when however I explained the idea it seemed that misunderstandings where all around.
Please by all means share your ideas and concerns on how the system as per my suggestion would be infallible and abused.

well, as i indicated, there is functionality to allow us to both fill a buy order and list our excess at the same time. and i wanted to know how you plan to tax the excess.

taking the listing price out of your revenue for filled orders and taking the rest of the listing price out of your pocket for the excess is needlessly complex. and a simpler solution to that is whats already implemented. so what do you do about it?

youve offered at least 2 solutions already:
#dont let people sell more items at once than a buy order wants
#fill the next highest buy order with the excess

i dont think either is really as elegant as simply listing excess at the same price in a single transaction, but both do avoid the potential problem of a 15% after tax instead of a 5% before + 10% after tax.

but tbh, i dont think one should be messing around w/ markets when one cant afford the listing price. but even for something like a random precursor drop, itll only take a few days of casual pve to grind up the listing fee.

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Maybe I’m having trouble understanding the OP. Now if he is trying to sell something to the highest bidder but doesn’t have enough coin to cover the posting fee, OK, I can accept the idea of letting both the tax and fees be backended.

However if he simply wants a backend of 15% and no posting fees, no. The purpose of the unrefundable 5% fee upfront is to keep sellers from casting around the price pool looking for a bite. It encourages them to try to estimate a “fair” price to sell the item at rather than tossing some value up there.

Behellagh.1468:

Maybe I’m having trouble understanding the OP. Now if he is trying to sell something to the highest bidder buy doesn’t have enough coin to cover the posting fee, OK, I can accept the idea of letting both the tax and fees be backended.

However if he simply wants a backend of 15% and no posting fees, no. The purpose of the unrefundable 5% fee upfront is to keep sellers from casting around the price pool looking for a bite. It encourages them to try to estimate a “fair” price to sell the item at rather than tossing some value up there.

You are right. You ARE having trouble understanding the OP. He specifically said BUY ORDERS, where the item is sold instantly. He did not touch normal listings.

Axialbloom.8109:

Behellagh.1468:

Maybe I’m having trouble understanding the OP. Now if he is trying to sell something to the highest bidder buy doesn’t have enough coin to cover the posting fee, OK, I can accept the idea of letting both the tax and fees be backended.

However if he simply wants a backend of 15% and no posting fees, no. The purpose of the unrefundable 5% fee upfront is to keep sellers from casting around the price pool looking for a bite. It encourages them to try to estimate a “fair” price to sell the item at rather than tossing some value up there.

You are right. You ARE having trouble understanding the OP. He specifically said BUY ORDERS, where the item is sold instantly. He did not touch normal listings.

So he wants the fee turned into a tax when selling directly. Based on the pace that they added new features to the gem store, you will have to wait a long time until this is implemented.

Wanze.8410:

Axialbloom.8109:

Behellagh.1468:

Maybe I’m having trouble understanding the OP. Now if he is trying to sell something to the highest bidder buy doesn’t have enough coin to cover the posting fee, OK, I can accept the idea of letting both the tax and fees be backended.

However if he simply wants a backend of 15% and no posting fees, no. The purpose of the unrefundable 5% fee upfront is to keep sellers from casting around the price pool looking for a bite. It encourages them to try to estimate a “fair” price to sell the item at rather than tossing some value up there.

You are right. You ARE having trouble understanding the OP. He specifically said BUY ORDERS, where the item is sold instantly. He did not touch normal listings.

So he wants the fee turned into a tax when selling directly. Based on the pace that they added new features to the gem store, you will have to wait a long time until this is implemented.

Yeah. I do not mind how it works now, so I am neutral to his suggestion. It will never be implemented, though…

this honestly wont fix anything…

then people will lower the price on buy orders to compensate the tax.

If you want to change something, then have the tax be applied after the sale is completed, so u dont need to front up the listing fee.

Instead u get a larger tax deduction from the buy order price AFTER its been sold.

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Why should the fees be placed on the back end? If you don’t have the money to pay the LISTING FEE, then you can’t sell the item.

John Smith.4610:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

This is the first and foremost reason (though there are others). Changing UI options doesn’t change what action you are taking. You simply state you are willing to sell an item for price X, the listing is created and either goes to the highest purchasers or persists visibly on the TP, but the either way it’s a list.

That’s the way it is, but is that the way it should be?

I don’t understand the economic purpose of requiring a certain amount of cash on hand to liquidate an asset. It wouldn’t be too onerous except that I can’t choose to list it for a price lower than the highest bid so that I can cover the fee.

Is it intended that players that don’t keep a lot of gold on hand aren’t able to sell high value lucky drops unless they go farm up the gold for the listing fee? I’m asking in the abstract- I’ve never had trouble coming up with the gold to sell something, so in practical terms I don’t know that it’s a huge issue.

I like the OP’s idea, but I wouldn’t put it as a very high priority item since I’m sure it would require a LOT of coding to make happen since that is not the way the TP currently works.

It makes sense that you would not need to have cash on hand to list an item if you are filling an already listed buy order.

mtpelion.4562:

I like the OP’s idea, but I wouldn’t put it as a very high priority item since I’m sure it would require a LOT of coding to make happen since that is not the way the TP currently works.

It makes sense that you would not need to have cash on hand to list an item if you are filling an already listed buy order.

But it’s still being listed, thus you need to pay Evon up front to use the service.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Why should the fees be placed on the back end? If you don’t have the money to pay the LISTING FEE, then you can’t sell the item.

Calm down. He knows exactly how it works right now. He suggested a change to filling buy orders only, where there is always a transaction. Next time if you do not understand a suggestion, just ask someone to explain it to you.

Pandemoniac.4739:

That’s the way it is, but is that the way it should be?

It’s a technical issue, the program first posts the item as a sell order (charging listing fee), then looks for buy orders to match it with (charging selling fee, if applicable). The remaining units persist as a sell order. If there’s a buy order for 100 units and you sell 200 at that price, all 200 units are posted as a sell order at that price, and 100 of them sell immediately as a separate transaction.

Changing this would require reprogramming the entire TP, and figuring out what to do with excess units – return to the seller or post a sell order, and whether the listing fee comes from the seller’s wallet or bundled with the fees from the buy order. But as they say, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” The system as it exists works just fine, and tearing it apart to remake it to satisfy a few players uses up resources and introduces bugs into the game without a compelling reason to do so.

So… whether it would be more convenient or not, it’s not gonna happen.

dietzero.3514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Why should the fees be placed on the back end? If you don’t have the money to pay the LISTING FEE, then you can’t sell the item.

Calm down. He knows exactly how it works right now. He suggested a change to filling buy orders only, where there is always a transaction. Next time if you do not understand a suggestion, just ask someone to explain it to you.

Yeah most of us who answer didn’t get the initial question being asked. However, it’s a moot point, since that suggestion is a bad one. I’m not sure of any service providing business (in game or in real life) that allows people to pay after-the-fact. You pay up front to use the TP services that’s safe and secure, or you use other less secure means to do your transactions. The options are there.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

dietzero.3514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Why should the fees be placed on the back end? If you don’t have the money to pay the LISTING FEE, then you can’t sell the item.

Calm down. He knows exactly how it works right now. He suggested a change to filling buy orders only, where there is always a transaction. Next time if you do not understand a suggestion, just ask someone to explain it to you.

Yeah most of us who answer didn’t get the initial question being asked. However, it’s a moot point, since that suggestion is a bad one. I’m not sure of any service providing business (in game or in real life) that allows people to pay after-the-fact. You pay up front to use the TP services that’s safe and secure, or you use other less secure means to do your transactions. The options are there.

His suggestion does not work due to what tolunart and insanemaniac said.

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

dietzero.3514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Axialbloom.8109:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gummy.4278:

I understand the need for a tax for Listing an item and the tax for the actual sell. I do not want to remove these as I see them as necessary.

When you are selling to highest buy order, you the seller have to come up with a listing fee and you do not list the item at all.

I think you don’t understand how the TP works. When a player fills a Buy Order, he “lists” it at that price, and the order is filled FIFO. It’s not a matter of selling it directly to the other player. All transactions MUST go through the TP, so anything that gets sold first has to be “listed”.

That’s the price you pay for using Evon’s services. You do have the option of doing “Gentlemen Agreements”, where you and the other player agree to a price, and trade directly via the in game mail system. Keep in mind that if you get scammed this way, Anet will not help you get your money back.

What are you even talking about? The same fees would still be paid, just all in the back-end. Did you deliberately ignore most of what he said?

Same goes for you, wanze.

Why should the fees be placed on the back end? If you don’t have the money to pay the LISTING FEE, then you can’t sell the item.

Calm down. He knows exactly how it works right now. He suggested a change to filling buy orders only, where there is always a transaction. Next time if you do not understand a suggestion, just ask someone to explain it to you.

Yeah most of us who answer didn’t get the initial question being asked. However, it’s a moot point, since that suggestion is a bad one. I’m not sure of any service providing business (in game or in real life) that allows people to pay after-the-fact. You pay up front to use the TP services that’s safe and secure, or you use other less secure means to do your transactions. The options are there.

His suggestion does not work due to what tolunart and insanemaniac said.

Yeah, they went through the trouble of giving a solid explanation. Mine was more along the lines of a business man: “You want to use my service, you pay first.”

tolunart.2095:

Pandemoniac.4739:

That’s the way it is, but is that the way it should be?

It’s a technical issue, the program first posts the item as a sell order (charging listing fee), then looks for buy orders to match it with (charging selling fee, if applicable).

I understand there are reasons that it is the way it is, and that it might not be possible to change. I meant the question in a more abstract way. If the technical restrictions weren’t a consideration, is there an economic/game play reason for doing it that way? I can’t think of one, but that doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist.

I can’t think of a reason either, it’s just a design decision. And a moot point, since changing it now will cause more problems than it solves.

“…I understand the need for a tax…”

Tax/taxation )Noun/subjective verb. Pecuniary burden laid upon individuals, land and business owners to support government.

Taxation is used for the purposes of infrastructure, war, schooling, health etc etc portofolio’s that best befit the needs of the country, region and its people.

As opposed to levy, which is optional to pay depending on whether you use the service provided. EG pay the bridge toll and drive over, or drive around the bridge and not pay the toll.

As Most items are account or soulbound this makes them impossible to sell via any other means. The Trading post is an enforced method of buying and sell over 99% of all items. This firmly makes it a tax, as it is enforced. Therefore there should be benefit in this to the country, region and people that is best befitting their needs at the time. At such time there is no published agenda as to what this tax is used on.

Where is gets stranger is the Trading post is owned by a Char. This makes it a private enterprise and we assume all profits made are also subject to tax because it is a burden on individuals, land and business owners. This firmly places the trading post as the 1% and us as the 99%.

Occupy Trading post.

If you didn’t pay the listing fee until the item was sold then the TP would just be a gloried infinite bank completely bloated with peoples crap.

The listing fee must be paid up front or the TP would no longer be a place of trade but instead a place of bank storage.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you didn’t pay the listing fee until the item was sold then the TP would just be a gloried infinite bank completely bloated with peoples crap.

The listing fee must be paid up front or the TP would no longer be a place of trade but instead a place of bank storage.

The idea is that when filling BUY ORDERS only the listing fee would be paid from the sale profit. Making a Sell Listing will still require the fee to be paid in advance, so no banking of items is possible.

This would keep the taxes in place but would also allow new players who get a lucky drop to fill a buy order without needing to spend time farming gold just to be able to afford to sell the item they got.

Putting the listing fee at the end of the transaction for filling buy orders is a good idea, but one that would require a lot of coding and thus won’t happen.

mtpelion.4562:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

If you didn’t pay the listing fee until the item was sold then the TP would just be a gloried infinite bank completely bloated with peoples crap.

The listing fee must be paid up front or the TP would no longer be a place of trade but instead a place of bank storage.

The idea is that when filling BUY ORDERS only the listing fee would be paid from the sale profit. Making a Sell Listing will still require the fee to be paid in advance, so no banking of items is possible.

This would keep the taxes in place but would also allow new players who get a lucky drop to fill a buy order without needing to spend time farming gold just to be able to afford to sell the item they got.

Putting the listing fee at the end of the transaction for filling buy orders is a good idea, but one that would require a lot of coding and thus won’t happen.

The problem here is that filling Buy Orders still require you to list the item. Why should we treat people filling Buy Orders any different than people listing items for sale? The seller of the item is still listing them, so no matter how much you dislike it, you must pay the up front fees to access the Trading Post’s functions.

In the event you have a player without enough money to post a high end item for sale, then that player can buy some Gems, convert to Gold, and then sell his item. OR… wait until he has farmed enough Gold to cover the listing fees.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The problem here is that filling Buy Orders still require you to list the item. Why should we treat people filling Buy Orders any different than people listing items for sale? The seller of the item is still listing them, so no matter how much you dislike it, you must pay the up front fees to access the Trading Post’s functions.

In the event you have a player without enough money to post a high end item for sale, then that player can buy some Gems, convert to Gold, and then sell his item. OR… wait until he has farmed enough Gold to cover the listing fees.

Functionally, the buyer creates a listing and when you fill it, a sell listing is created, and then instantly deleted because it is paired with the buy listing, and the transaction completes.

That system is kind of a garbled mess, but it takes significantly less time to code which is why we have it.

This suggestion would require the code to be improved to be more efficient, which isn’t going to happen.

In an efficient TP design, there would only be one listing for each transaction (either a buy or a sell) followed by a completion when it is filled.

mtpelion.4562:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The problem here is that filling Buy Orders still require you to list the item. Why should we treat people filling Buy Orders any different than people listing items for sale? The seller of the item is still listing them, so no matter how much you dislike it, you must pay the up front fees to access the Trading Post’s functions.

In the event you have a player without enough money to post a high end item for sale, then that player can buy some Gems, convert to Gold, and then sell his item. OR… wait until he has farmed enough Gold to cover the listing fees.

Functionally, the buyer creates a listing and when you fill it, a sell listing is created, and then instantly deleted because it is paired with the buy listing, and the transaction completes.

That system is kind of a garbled mess, but it takes significantly less time to code which is why we have it.

This suggestion would require the code to be improved to be more efficient, which isn’t going to happen.

In an efficient TP design, there would only be one listing for each transaction (either a buy or a sell) followed by a completion when it is filled.

It’s not an issue about ease of coding, but rather a service that a seller uses. The Buyer posts a “wanted” listing, sure. But in order for a Seller to sell his goods to that person, he must LIST the item on the Trading Post. There’s a fee to use this service.

Think of it this way, the item you’re selling, whether it be a Sell listing or filling a Buy Order, is delivered though the Trading Post itself. You can’t pick up your items or money without visiting a BLTC representative. Because you’re using the service, you pay the fees. Sellers pay a non-refundable small percentage of the value up front, and a larger percentage of the value of the sale on the back end.

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why Buyer and Seller names are hidden. If the TP acted like a bulletin board system, or forum, I could easily bypass the TP all together, and message directly to the person posting the Buy Order to make a trade free of fees. That leads to scams, because there’s no secure method of guaranteed sell or delivery.

tl;dr – You pay a fee to use the service.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s not an issue about ease of coding, but rather a service that a seller uses. The Buyer posts a “wanted” listing, sure. But in order for a Seller to sell his goods to that person, he must LIST the item on the Trading Post. There’s a fee to use this service.

Think of it this way, the item you’re selling, whether it be a Sell listing or filling a Buy Order, is delivered though the Trading Post itself. You can’t pick up your items or money without visiting a BLTC representative. Because you’re using the service, you pay the fees. Sellers pay a non-refundable small percentage of the value up front, and a larger percentage of the value of the sale on the back end.

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why Buyer and Seller names are hidden. If the TP acted like a bulletin board system, or forum, I could easily bypass the TP all together, and message directly to the person posting the Buy Order to make a trade free of fees. That leads to scams, because there’s no secure method of guaranteed sell or delivery.

tl;dr – You pay a fee to use the service.

You’d still pay the fee, it would just come out of the profits if you filled an existing order rather than out of your pocket if you chose to post your item.

You’re thinking about it from the perspective of what is. I’m talking about what it could be. It could be a system that promotes more transactions (and thus works to combat inflation better) by allowing new or poor players to immediately fill buy orders. Instead of having 5% taken up front and 10% taken at the end, filling a buy order would take 0% up front and 15% taken at the end. TP tax remains in full force, and more players are able to participate in the economy which makes everyone more money.

The question isn’t about paying the full amount into the sink. It’s about opening up the TP as storage if their aren’t immediate buyers.

The TP software is blind to the fact that you may be selling to a someone who already have an acceptable bid for you. What you are doing is selecting the sell price to be the same as the high bid that’s displayed when you first bring up the sell screen. That bid may no longer be there by the time you click the sell button. It isn’t making a connection to that bidder, just that bidder’s price.

mtpelion.4562:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s not an issue about ease of coding, but rather a service that a seller uses. The Buyer posts a “wanted” listing, sure. But in order for a Seller to sell his goods to that person, he must LIST the item on the Trading Post. There’s a fee to use this service.

Think of it this way, the item you’re selling, whether it be a Sell listing or filling a Buy Order, is delivered though the Trading Post itself. You can’t pick up your items or money without visiting a BLTC representative. Because you’re using the service, you pay the fees. Sellers pay a non-refundable small percentage of the value up front, and a larger percentage of the value of the sale on the back end.

On a side note, this is one of the reasons why Buyer and Seller names are hidden. If the TP acted like a bulletin board system, or forum, I could easily bypass the TP all together, and message directly to the person posting the Buy Order to make a trade free of fees. That leads to scams, because there’s no secure method of guaranteed sell or delivery.

tl;dr – You pay a fee to use the service.

You’d still pay the fee, it would just come out of the profits if you filled an existing order rather than out of your pocket if you chose to post your item.

You’re thinking about it from the perspective of what is. I’m talking about what it could be. It could be a system that promotes more transactions (and thus works to combat inflation better) by allowing new or poor players to immediately fill buy orders. Instead of having 5% taken up front and 10% taken at the end, filling a buy order would take 0% up front and 15% taken at the end. TP tax remains in full force, and more players are able to participate in the economy which makes everyone more money.

No no no no no. I’m not talking about a fee on the back end profits. I’m talking about having to pay a fee “up front” before you can access the services of the TP. Before you can even touch the TP, you must put in money. Just like a soda machine at the mall. You don’t get a soda first, and pay after. You put your coins into the machine, and then the machine dispenses the soda.

(To add, I know some people will use that last example, and try to justify a back end fee like shopping at a market: Pick up soda from shelf, and then pay at the register. That doesn’t work, because this system is automated, while a clerk at the market makes sure you pay for the item/service before you leave.)

It’s pretty simple. If you want to have access to the Trading Post, you pay a small fee first. There’s no reason to suggest a fix to anything that isn’t broken.

mtpelion.4562:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The problem here is that filling Buy Orders still require you to list the item. Why should we treat people filling Buy Orders any different than people listing items for sale? The seller of the item is still listing them, so no matter how much you dislike it, you must pay the up front fees to access the Trading Post’s functions.

In the event you have a player without enough money to post a high end item for sale, then that player can buy some Gems, convert to Gold, and then selul his item. OR… wait until he has farmed enough Gold to cover the listing fees.

Functionally, the buyer creates a listing and when you fill it, a sell listing is created, and then instantly deleted because it is paired with the buy listing, and the transaction completes.

That system is kind of a garbled mess, but it takes significantly less time to code which is why we have it.

This suggestion would require the code to be improved to be more efficient, which isn’t going to happen.

In an efficient TP design, there would only be one listing for each transaction (either a buy or a sell) followed by a completion when it is filled.

I think you are underestimating the impact of the global nature of the TP in your theoretically more efficient design. The TP needs to synch up orders from multiple servers across two data centres, and that imposes a restriction on being able to directly match sales to an existing buy order and it makes more sense to create a sell listing at that price and then match those to any buy orders in the system.

Yell on the map chat and sell your items tax free → lower price → more buyers

But dont let Arenanet know.

Behellagh.1468:

The TP software is blind to the fact that you may be selling to a someone who already have an acceptable bid for you. What you are doing is selecting the sell price to be the same as the high bid that’s displayed when you first bring up the sell screen. That bid may no longer be there by the time you click the sell button. It isn’t making a connection to that bidder, just that bidder’s price.

That’s the clearest description of the technical issue so far I think. So what we really need is the ability to trade on margin