Guild Wars 2

Whenever these gold inflation deflation, market supply demand threads pop up, there’s one thing I keep seeing and another that is completely ignored.

Gold to gem ratio is not player controlled.
Supply of anything(base materials/item, not crafted ones) are not player controlled.

Both of them are being controlled via arenanet or another party (ncsoft?).

All these arguments about why precursors are expensive and why gold goes up when there’s a sale are, basically, what they decide and want them to be like. Just like with anything else. Supply is created through play, sure, but the amount and frequency of supply is completely out of our hand. This is not a “normal” transparent market situation at all. Just try to remember that. I really hate when many of you go ahead and say it is.

Bottom of the line, we have no control over a drop rate of anything, stop acting like we do.

Actually the gem exchange its controled by a fixed formula (gems:gold ratio based on number of gems left in the exchange), and that formula only takes inputs from players.

Nike missed the point.

And the point is that the valued items such as precursors should change as the drop% would change and that’s not in our control.

No, You missed the point – the Exchange system is automated and follows explicit rules. Tinkering with it is minimal because being able to have faith in the stability of the rules is a key part of the system gaining acceptance and building trust.

Drop rates they DO tinker with, mostly in response to concerns we the players raise. Some of that tinkering goes wrong and EXACTLY like I just suggested, those errors cost them trust, and player-base retention.

They don’t mess with drop rates willy nilly. So its more true to say “They CAN change them – but don’t without a very pressing reason”.

Gasoline.2570:

Bottom of the line, we have no control over a drop rate of anything, stop acting like we do.

This was the point.

Nike you said it yourself: The Exchange system follows explicit rules → rules which Anet set. So by setting them they control the market. The know the average time players play, so they can set it the way they want.
If they decide that they want a higher price, they just can reduce the drop rate, if the price shall drop, just increase the drop rate.
That’s what they did with Runestones, they invented the new bags. More drops in the same time.

What is continually ignored is the fact that the “economy”, contrary to the real world economy – serves one main purpose – to create a fun environment that we want to be in.
This definitely includes the trading part, making money etc, but it is not limited to that.
All we can do is provide our individual feedback.

I try to look at where it stems from. Really it looks like a good solution on paper. Enable the players to roam freely and engage in the activities they prefer but not making any aspect overly rewarding vs the other. The game is very rewarding indeed, but the system in place wasn’t able to truly eliminate the “grind”, it was only able to shift it to another aspect.

What do I hear, MMO’s are all about grind? Essentially true, but if you try to improve the genre, make it more appealing to a wider range of gamers and your slogan is “we respect the player” – “play your way” – then you have to accept the feedback that it is not perfect at the moment. Perfect being in the eye of the individual.

Take the gold to gem conversion. It is very generous and rewarding for the player that has “making money” on his radar. At the same time that directly influences the players that don’t and as a result make it restrictive and unrewarding for them. Now we see the argument popping up “it’s the players that decide this” vs “Anet set the rules”. Both is true but again irrelevant. Time will tell if the majority of players like this structure or not and whether or not they draw consequences from that.

I like this game very much, that is the only reason why I take my time to provide feedback here in this manner, for Tyria, to make it a world where as many as possible want to be in.

At this moment in time if you live in a relatively free market economy in real life you will find governments always possess the ultimate means to control the economy via central bank interest rate rate changes and general taxation, as well as economic general strategy.

In addition stock markets generally have rules designed to limit massive short term price changes in major stocks, that is certainly so in both the USA and the UK. Sure, it can break down in extreme circumstances but it is not always desirable as most people want an orderly market to trade, this allowing a degree of price discovery.

Within Tyria that is also desirable for us all, I know short term traders love making money, even virtual, no harm in that within reason.

But I would imagine the player purchasing gems, either with gold or real money would be a little cross if they found the same trade the next day yielded twice the fungible value. And if gems became so devalued Areanet stopped making money, then the servers would close.

Hence Areanet control this economy here as governments control the economy in real life, ultimately designed to maintain a stable economic base

Just my personal views

(John Smith if you read this its your turn now mate) -:)

Rouven.7409:

What is continually ignored is the fact that the “economy”, contrary to the real world economy – serves one main purpose – to create a fun environment that we want to be in.
This definitely includes the trading part, making money etc, but it is not limited to that.

And this is also a good point. This game is designed so that players, most at least, RolePlay as poor one’s. Vendoring gives nothing. Lucky drops, or drops at all, are few and far between and DR is just icing on the cake. Lest we forget RNG that doesn’t treat everyone fairly.

Not too many find this economy a fun environment from what I’ve gathered while playing. Too much is being artificially bottlenecked. It’s a videogame, why do we have to be working our butts off like in real life? Grinding and farming for certain things, instead of being able to play in our own way and still make a solid income? (i.e. WvW and it’s worse than awful drops)

But I digress, the point still stands that the market isn’t as player-driven as most keep saying here when the supply is not transparent at all and drops are completely out of our reach.

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

Gasoline.2570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

demand. how does ANet control demand? because supply is only half equation for price.

And the supply is ultra-limited.

kitanas.3596:

Gasoline.2570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

demand. how does ANet control demand? because supply is only half equation for price.

Rarity influences demand in a game like this. It could be the ugliest, blandest, most pathetic thing, but if it’s rare players will seek it for exclusivity. If it’s common as leaves on a tree, well that’ll also effect demand. It’s the name of the game, and I if might add, common knowledge.

So, Dusk is more expensive than Dawn.

They are both GSs. They are both precursors. They have the same method of production.

So why is Dusk more expensive than Dawn?

Because players like the look of Twilight more than Sunrise.

Another example is when the Rose Bouquet came out. Did prices spike as much as the bank slot? I actually can’t check since spidy is down, but I don’t remember such a spike. It’s because the Rose Bouquet just wasn’t as popular as the bank slot.

While yes, Anet has some control over prices, the players ultimately set the demand. Whenever people talk about prices being set supply/demand, you have to look at both sides. Anet has some control, but not absolute control.

Gasoline.2570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

I read perfectly fine:

Gasoline.2570:

All these arguments about why precursors are expensive and why gold goes up when there’s a sale are, basically, what they decide and want them to be like.

You’re making like we players aren’t the ones to determine the prices. Anet makes them rare, and we players determine the prices we want to pay. When there’s a sale of something desirable, we determine if we want to buy Gems with real money, or convert Gold to be able to buy it.

Ursan makes a valid point, where two equally rare items have different demand/values. People need to pay attention to his posts, as he’s probably one of the most intelligent posters here.

As for me, I think all these complaints come from people who have a strong sense of Entitlement, thus all the rage about market manipulation and conspiracies about Anet controlling prices when these players don’t get what they want.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Gasoline.2570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Drop rates. Supply.

Learn to read.

I read perfectly fine:

Gasoline.2570:

All these arguments about why precursors are expensive and why gold goes up when there’s a sale are, basically, what they decide and want them to be like.

You’re making like we players aren’t the ones to determine the prices. Anet makes them rare, and we players determine the prices we want to pay. When there’s a sale of something desirable, we determine if we want to buy Gems with real money, or convert Gold to be able to buy it.

Ursan makes a valid point, where two equally rare items have different demand/values. People need to pay attention to his posts, as he’s probably one of the most intelligent posters here.

As for me, I think all these complaints come from people who have a strong sense of Entitlement, thus all the rage about market manipulation and conspiracies about Anet controlling prices when these players don’t get what they want.

Entitlement to clear progression? Entitlement to I want everything now with no work?

Or perhaps entitlement to rewarding their time spent at least to a degree?

The reason most begin to complain is the fact that no matter the amount of hours they spend, they still don’t get any progression while someone else for 1/100th of the time can achieve more things simply by luck. Entitlement is perfectly fine when the system is like this, everyone should have a clear path and a sense of progression toward things instead of this crap where only the lucky few or those who play markets manage to get to.

And let’s not "we want the player to be able to play how they want to – it’s just that they aren’t gonna get rewarded for their time because they don’t use it the way we want them to. Go grind and farm my dear boy. Go pray to RNG gods.

So, Dusk is more expensive than Dawn.

They are both GSs. They are both precursors. They have the same method of production.

So why is Dusk more expensive than Dawn?

Because players like the look of Twilight more than Sunrise.

Sure, but why are they both over 500g?

???

Hint: drop rate?!?!

Gasoline.2570:

Sure, but why are they both over 500g?

???

Hint: drop rate?!?!

Well.

Yes.

I’m not sure what your point is though. They’re both incredibly expensive because they are very rare. Anet is influencing their prices by making them very rare. I don’t think anyone’s disputing that.

But there’s still a price difference. Because Anet doesn’t have complete control of the prices. They do not control the demand. They don’t control the fact that players like Twilight more than Sunrise for whatever reason. Which is why you see the price difference between Dusk and Dawn. It’s the player’s influence: demand, which Anet cannot and does not control.

Now look at Venom. It’s also a precursor. It’s like 30 gold. I bet you, it’s probably a lot more rare than Dusk/Dawn just because I highly doubt people toss in rare tridents into the MF. And yet the price is incredibly low. Why? Because of demand. There is no demand for it, despite the incredibly low supply. Hence it’s incredibly cheap.

So basically, players and Anet both have control over prices of goods. To assign responsibility of a certain price to one and only one of these parties is not only silly, but completely wrong.

Base price is in anets control nonetheless. Price variation, to some degree, will come from players sure. Unless the drop rate is different, which is something we do not know.

Gasoline.2570:

Base price is in anets control nonetheless.

Do you mind defining what you mean by “Base price?” How does it differ from the actual price?

Again, no on is saying Anet has no control. They obviously influence things. But players also have influence too, which is my point.

Gasoline.2570:

Price variation, to some degree, will come from players sure.

Right. We’re in agreement then that players affect prices of things.

Gasoline.2570:

Unless the drop rate is different, which is something we do not know

See Dusk/Dawn/Venom example of items of similar supply but different prices.

Gasoline.2570:

Base price is in anets control nonetheless. Price variation, to some degree, will come from players sure. Unless the drop rate is different, which is something we do not know.

You mean the 3s 96c sell value that Anet assigned it?

Again it’s Econ 101, extremely low supply + very high demand = very high price. Yes Anet controls supply but how common of a drop should an exotic aka ultra rare be? or chance of creating one in the MF?

Ursan.7846:

Gasoline.2570:

Base price is in anets control nonetheless.

Do you mind defining what you mean by “Base price?” How does it differ from the actual price?

Again, no on is saying Anet has no control. They obviously influence things. But players also have influence too, which is my point.

Gasoline.2570:

Price variation, to some degree, will come from players sure.

Right. We’re in agreement then that players affect prices of things.

Gasoline.2570:

Unless the drop rate is different, which is something we do not know

See Dusk/Dawn/Venom example of items of similar supply but different prices.

Nobody is trying to get them, NOBODY WANTS THEM!

The ones that people ARE trying to get, and interested in, are those notable weapons that people use all the time. The droprate on them is hilariously low if the prices soar to 500g+. You’re comparing apples to oranges now with comparing bad legendaries to good ones. They don’t make the droprate on the wanted ones any more right. Nor on the not-wanted ones.

What a stupid comparison, I just.. really? We are talking end-game content that’s ultra expensive before even precursor, this makes getting worse legendaries a bad choice for your money in the first place. The 3 gifts alone are expensive enough. And if you really want to go there, The Bard. It got up 100g past 1.5months and that is a legendary nobody really wants either, but the few and far between are slowly wanting it. What does this speak of the drop rate? The supply is crap.

Gasoline.2570:

Nobody is trying to get them, NOBODY WANTS THEM!

The ones that people ARE trying to get, and interested in, are those notable weapons that people use all the time. The droprate on them is hilariously low if the prices soar to 500g+. You’re comparing apples to oranges now with comparing bad legendaries to good ones. They don’t make the droprate on the wanted ones any more right. Nor on the not-wanted ones.

What a stupid comparison, I just.. really? We are talking end-game content that’s ultra expensive before even precursor, this makes getting worse legendaries a bad choice for your money in the first place. The 3 gifts alone are expensive enough.

Forgive me, but I’m struggling to understand what your point is. Again, I apologize if I’m misunderstanding but…

I’ve been posting under the assumption that you think Anet completely controls prices of certain things. And I’ve been posting trying to debunk this fact. And your post reinforces my point, because the “bad” legendaries are undesirable, hence why precursors for them are incredibly cheap relative to Dawn/Dusk/Zap. Heck there’s also 2nd tier precursors like The Chosen/Bolt which are like 300G. But Sword/Shield obviously isn’t as popular as GS/daggers, so naturally it’s cheaper than Dawn/Dusk/Zap.

You can ignore everything I said. How do you explain the price difference for Dusk/Dawn, if not for player influence?

Players do have an influence on prices, just as Anet does.

Again, if I’m misunderstanding your position, sorry.

@Gasoline

Omg, his point was that the players are driving the prices up, not ANet.

People are willing to pay 700g for Dusk and that is why price stays on this level. They even gave as information of how many where trade in 72h time period.
Why do we have to come back to the same argument again?
ANet controling the prices? Compare Dusk with Venom and ask yourself the question: why the price difference?

And how many thousands of people aren’t willing to pay that 700g? So as long as it remains with an insanely low drop rate, there will be either artificial demand aka manipulation to drive it back up or so.

Remember karka event? Demand for precursors was the same, prices went down because supply was boosted, but of course this was completely temporary and soon after the prices went way up again to levels 95% wont be willing to spend that much. How is this Anet not affecting their prices?

Personally I’ve sacrificed around 400g in the toilet and gotten zip. The supply theyve set is just too low and that drives the price up. There’s a lot of people who done exactly that. 500, 1000, 2000 weapons in the toilet and nothing, still.

It’s the minority of cof farmers who are willing to dish out 700g in the tp because they don’t want to try the toilet in hopes of losing 700g and getting nothing, because thats how the drop rate is.

I don’t anyone wants to pay 700g. But we just have to, because there is so much demand, that the sellers can do such prices. If the droprate would be higher, these prices weren’t possible, so Anet controls the prices somehow.
I mean, the producer of a game always controls everything, because he can change it the way he wants.
Of course their aim is not to influence the market, that’s why the prices go up and this aim is mostly really good, but in my view if a situation like this arises they have to react.

Actually enough to keep the price on this level.

Karka event was a unique, one time thing.
Don’t get me wrong but Precursor is the only thing that makes Legendaries rare. Rest of the materials you will get anyway. I don’t want ANet to increase drop rate. I’ve worked very hard to get my Colossus and I would be very angry if they would do this. If I and many more players could have done it the hard way, it’s definately possible.

Surferboy.1649:

I don’t anyone wants to pay 700g. But we just have to, because there is so much demand, that the sellers can do such prices. If the droprate would be higher, these prices weren’t possible, so Anet controls the prices somehow.
I mean, the producer of a game always controls everything, because he can change it the way he wants.
Of course their aim is not to influence the market, that’s why the prices go up and this aim is mostly really good, but in my view if a situation like this arises they have to react.

Well the problem is, the reason they go so far and beyond these kind of prices is that that this is where the demand and supply meet apparently as is, BUT BECAUSE the drop rate is so awful.

You can throw in 1000g in the toilet and get nothing. This is called forging a precursor, the alternative to a lucky drop, the thing that sets precursors price, actually. Lets say, an average of 2000 weapons in the toilet would net you a precursor and we multiply that with expense of average rare lets say 42s; that makes 840g. So something like that IS, in fact, the wanted price for precursors by arenanet. That is how much it would averagely(probably even more) to forge one for themselves due the drop rate.

Supply and demand would meet at say 300g when the drop rate would be increased to 1 precursor every 714 weapons or 178.5 tries – well actually probably around 400g due to unlucky tries, because, well it is still rng; you can still end up wasting 1000g and get nothing. So people would charge a premium for a confirmed precursor instead of gamble or maybe actually even more than that.

If we take a statistic from this guy
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/67443-precursor-r-d-thread/page__st__390#entry2165335

Thats 24790 tries and 12 precursors.

Average of 2065 rares per precursor which would make the cost around 867g. Now if we take out that random bad one of 8900 rares, though we should not, then the price would be 605g. You add premium of not having to gamble and you got above 100-200g of those prices.

Gasoline.2570:

Surferboy.1649:

I don’t anyone wants to pay 700g. But we just have to, because there is so much demand, that the sellers can do such prices. If the droprate would be higher, these prices weren’t possible, so Anet controls the prices somehow.
I mean, the producer of a game always controls everything, because he can change it the way he wants.
Of course their aim is not to influence the market, that’s why the prices go up and this aim is mostly really good, but in my view if a situation like this arises they have to react.

Well the problem is, the reason they go so far and beyond these kind of prices is that that this is where the demand and supply meet apparently as is, BUT BECAUSE the drop rate is so awful.

You can throw in 1000g in the toilet and get nothing. This is called forging a precursor, the alternative to a lucky drop, the thing that sets precursors price, actually. Lets say, an average of 2000 weapons in the toilet would net you a precursor and we multiply that with expense of average rare lets say 42s; that makes 840g. So something like that IS, in fact, the wanted price for precursors by arenanet. That is how much it would averagely(probably even more) to forge one for themselves due the drop rate.

Supply and demand would meet at say 300g when the drop rate would be increased to 1 precursor every 714 weapons or 178.5 tries – well actually probably around 400g due to unlucky tries, because, well it is still rng; you can still end up wasting 1000g and get nothing. So people would charge a premium for a confirmed precursor instead of gamble.

All I’m hearing is “I want Dusk really bad, so Anet make it cheaper. I don’t care for Dawn, or Bolt, or Venom, or Pink Flying Cow Bow of Wonder. I want Dusk, and since I can’t buy one, I’ll rage with illogical arguments until your ears bleed.”

Look, the drop rates for all Precursors are basically the same. Do you know what an item with a low drop rate is called? RARE. However, even if it’s rare, it won’t command value unless it’s desired.

Now let’s look at your example of increasing drop rates = lower price. That’s not always true. Price drops when Supply outpaces Demand. But if Demand increases faster than the Supply increase, prices still go up.

The demand for precursors is not going to drop. This is a given. Why was it when the prices were closing in to 400g anet said theyd be fixing this. They did for a brief time and now it’s worse than ever. People ran out of things to do, this isn’t an excuse to artifically make a legendary ultra super duper rare. Not especially when it’s first “intention” was to be a showcase of our accomplishments and achivements and it amounts to nothing but farming insane amounts of gold? Wat.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Wait wait wait. I had no idea Anet is forcing me to sell my Dusk for 700 Gold. So if I were to put mine for sale at 400 Gold, will I be banned for not following the rules?

Man, this game just got so much more complicated.

Chuckle, I know what you mean mate.

Any type of economic system is bound to become complex.

But here are two elegantly simple rules that help……“Trade what you see, not what you think”…….and……..“When governments (real life and Areanet) don’t like the rules they change them”

If you are really into trading, best idea is to create a chart in Excel (or its equal) to establish price discovery of an item, and track it. Then in the absence of any rule changes if the price drops below the line sell or short it, and if it goes above be very careful before buying it. And make sure you have a neutral position on patch days…….

Oh yes on edit, Google the trading concepts of support and resistance, as it will enable you to find the average spread on any item and thus make a judgement call if the spread is wide enough to trade profitably

Lol nothing ever changes for a trader -:)

Gasoline.2570:

The demand for precursors is not going to drop. This is a given. Why was it when the prices were closing in to 400g anet said theyd be fixing this. They did for a brief time and now it’s worse than ever. People ran out of things to do, this isn’t an excuse to artifically make a legendary ultra super duper rare. Not especially when it’s first “intention” was to be a showcase of our accomplishments and achivements and it amounts to nothing but farming insane amounts of gold? Wat.

Demand will never drop for Precursors, it will always increase over time. If the Demand for an item increases faster than the Supply, price will never drop. That’s why you can never assume an increase in drop rates will lead to decreases in prices. Especially when players are the ones determining the price points.

Gasoline.2570:

Supply is created through play, sure, but the amount and frequency of supply is completely out of our hand. This is not a “normal” transparent market situation at all.

Production functions in the real world are largely out of our hands as well. Instead of being dictated by a game designer, they are dictated by the natural laws of the world.

Production functions in game can change as dictated by the game designers; they can change in the real world as dictated by lawmakers. Even outside of that, production functions change all the time in the real world, due to technological discoveries, social shifts, or even fluctuations to the raw output of materials (heat waves knocking out crops, metal ore discoveries, etc).

Mathematically, the two are identical – various forms of tail risks and unknown unknowns. The main practical difference between the observation that precursors are expensive (because legendary weapons are shiny and precursors are rare) and the observation that gold ore is expensive (because gold jewelry is shiny and gold is rare) is that we can predict that the supply of precursors might change in response to that rarity, since it is being controlled by an intelligent designer; the supply of gold, and future gold discoveries that might shock the world gold supply, are not being controlled in such a way.

As such, shifts in production are much more predictable, tractable, and transparent in the GW2 economy than they are in the real world.

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

We also know that this is a game where not all rl rules apply. They may try to adhere to some rl rules/laws, but at the end of the day we know that what works in rl does not necessarily work ig.

That said….the argument I mostly see is….well…….beating a dead horse. It seems that one side is saying “Anet controls the prices”, while the other is saying “the players control the prices”. Even though both have admitted to the other having some validity, the mule like debate continues. If we were to replace “control” with something more applicable…say…“influence”, then we could perhaps stop beating on that dead horse. Then we might be able come to the conclusion that both sides are right to an extent and move on to the degree of which each “influences” the price.

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

goldi.3129:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

I know, I was just being ironic. The premise that rarity in supply can drive demand is simply silly. If there is little demand to start with, rarity of supply is meaningless.

Behellagh.1468:

goldi.3129:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

I know, I was just being ironic. The premise that rarity in supply can drive demand is simply silly. If there is little demand to start with, rarity of supply is meaningless.

I know, just took your quote to explain it in nonsarcasm

We are not truly discussing either demand nor scarcity, but the “rules” of the game if you so will, which make the game (or aspects of it) “fun” for some and “un-fun” for some others.

The scarcity is bound into these “rules” which in turn triggers other wheels and turns demand into pricing.

In short, there is no need to justify the rules with a set of mechanics if these mechanics don’t have the desired effect. They might work near perfectly – they might work perfectly 100% – but as they said it in the Matrix, the first world was perfect and the humans did not accept it, they lost the complete harvest.

On the positive side I’m confident that changes are coming in the near future that will allow people to approach the subject in their own way (again within the rules) and hopefully make this discussion including irony and sarcasm on both sides obsolete.

I’m sure we’ll find something else, but until then we can all shoot unicorns on rainbow rays followed by thunder and lightning.

Did anyone else here ever change the rules playing Monopoly at home? The boardgame.

goldi.3129:

Behellagh.1468:

Essence Snow.3194:

We know that supply influences demand. We know that players desire/preferences also influence demand. We know that there are numerous other variables that influence demand. Demand is not limited to one factor.

Honestly I’ve never considered that rarity in supply could increase demand and therefore price. I’m not all that into the “numbered limited edition” market of collectibles or pay too much attention to what the Jones’ recently bought.

It doesn’t. See Ursans example above regarding the non desirable precursors. Same supply as the desired precursors but virtually no demand. Thus low prizes.

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

I beg to differ. There are multiple other factors that influence the price/demand. These factors influence each other as well. So in turn the rarity influence of said item (venom) is only part of the total demand and other factors weigh more. Thus the rarity has a smaller influence on price in it’s specific case.
Now consider the staff Final Rest. Yeah it might look nice (which is part of the demand for it), but why else do people want it? Why is there such demand for it? Why would it sell for at least the price of a legendary if not more? I contend that among other factors the rarity plays a huge role into why the demand for it is such. It weighs much more than looks in it’s case.
We can see that each item has it own set of influences, each of which vary and are dependent on the item itself.

goldi.3129:

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

Well, supply isn’t totally meaningless. There are many things in the world that people covet and crave simply due to their rarity. Also, low supply, even with low demand, means higher prices than high supply, low demand items. Venom sells for a good 30G. Which, while nothing compared to the other precursors, is still quite pricey when compared to other exotic tridents.

Again, both supply and demand influence prices.

Ursan.7846:

goldi.3129:

Like in the real world if people ingame know that their potential customers are not willing to buy their products (no demand) the supply is meaningless.
As it doesn’t matter whether noone wants to buy 1 or 20 undesired items.

Well, supply isn’t totally meaningless. There are many things in the world that people covet and crave simply due to their rarity. Also, low supply, even with low demand, means higher prices than high supply, low demand items. Venom sells for a good 30G. Which, while nothing compared to the other precursors, is still quite pricey when compared to other exotic tridents.

Again, both supply and demand influence prices.

What you mention are collectors items. I wouldn’t put those into the usual market cycle as they usually have another attribute beside being very rare (worn by someone famous, unique design/flaw that is not produced anymore etc etc.)
- Or a great Marketing campaign that perfects the AIDA principe. But that would create artificial demand again.

If I pull a teeth out and set it on ebay its unique- aka lowest supply possible. Would that influence the prize? Nope, as there is no demand for a teeth of mine Only if there is demand supply plays any role.

The prize for Venom would probably be a result of its property being a precursor. And the fact that (argumentable) some people are willing to pay 30g for it- otherwise if new Venoms came to the market you’d have a constant undercutting as the supply would grow with nill demand- till someone would say “yes thats the prize i’m willing to pay for it”.