Guild Wars 2

This post is not going to be constructive as I’m not interested in suggesting any solutions to the situation and mostly just need to vent my frustration, but I’m typing it anyway.

I’ve been playing this game since day -3. For almost a year I was pretty poor. The most expensive purchase I did were two pieces of T3 cultural armor and a couple of bank tabs via gem exchange. They say, you are supposed to just play a game however you want and you’ll get resources for whatever you want, …eventually. I don’t know, I guess I did every possible thing wrong, because after 11 months I had two digit amount of gold and one digit amount of valuable items. That one digit being zero. And that was ok. Legandaries were so far out of reach, I kinda resigned from ever getting one, and there was nothing expensive I wanted enough to force myself to farm. I was at peace.

And then came Deadeye and champion loot. Secure, easily quantifiable farm one can jump into anytime and jump out before throw up reflex kicks in. In about a week I gained same amount of gold I managed to save after a year. Then, with ascended crafting I dumped some excess materials I had lying around. Golden title achievement ticked. And with it appeared this stupid idea. That maybe, just maybe, it was doable, maybe it was worth the effort. It’s just some hundreds of gold. There are ways now! And look – they just said after this market shakeup they will avoid causing any more instability for some time. No more moving goalposts, right? Right?! The worst that can happen now is precursor crafting/hunt will be released before I’ll be able to buy it.

And so I farmed. Not going into details here as I’d rather not remember that period. By December I was able to place buy orders close to the top of the stack.

Then reality kicked in. After all, you weren’t going to maintain release cycle, you weren’t releasing anything addressing precursor acquisition this year; apparently, you are not releasing any features for at least 3 next months and by doing so you’ve bumped my target precursor price 25% in two weeks.

I trusted you to keep 3 promises*. Now I’m burned out, tired, with a bunch of gold I have no will to spend on anything at this point, just laying there reminding me of the time I’ve wasted. Serves me right, I guess. It pains to understand how easily my situation could have been both solved and avoided and how none of it is going to happen.

Happy Holidays.
See you next year. Or maybe not. One can only hope.

See, I get that different people have different playstyles and all. What I don’t get is the people who claim to have been playing for over a year, who claim they don’t spend their in game money on much, and yet claim to have less than 100g to show for it. Something just doesn’t add up. I mean, if you don’t accidentally end up with over 1g from an hour of random playing, what are you actually doing in game?

Syeria.4812:

See, I get that different people have different playstyles and all. What I don’t get is the people who claim to have been playing for over a year, who claim they don’t spend their in game money on much, and yet claim to have less than 100g to show for it. Something just doesn’t add up. I mean, if you don’t accidentally end up with over 1g from an hour of random playing, what are you actually doing in game?

Spending it on Mini Southsun Kasmeers.

I understand what you mean. I was in a similar cycle, although I can explain where my money and time went. I was making and equipping alts and playing the TP. :P After a good bit of scrapping things together, I was sitting just over 60G, when Scarlet began invading. Within a couple weeks I was up to 400G and quite proud of myself. I, too, dared to dream that I might be able to afford a precursor at some point and was pretty close to The Hunter. Then I read something about the precursors dropping in price due to new legendaries and decided to hold off getting anything. Why pay 500 when it might be half that next month? Honestly, I wasn’t the only one thinking they’d do something prior to Christmas. 20/20 hindsight and all that.

Then, one night, after reading many folks having amazing luck with the TP, I decided to try mine. I dumped more than half my wealth into the TP, resulting in merely “The Bard”, which I sold and added the proceeds towards more TP fodder. I ended the night at about 150G with nothing to show for it.

Since then, I haven’t broken 200G and currently sit at about 4G, but again, I know why… I decided the legendaries are just not worth it at this point and went a different direction.

I found myself looking at non-legendary options and really enjoying the look- something simpler but creative. Eventually, I came to cobble together a very unique look that suited me and snagged some fairly unique weapon skins that suited that look. Now, I preview legendaries only to feel happy that I made the right decision. I don’t need shiny for the sake of shiny. I need something that fits me.

I’m still planning at some point to get a legendary (possibly one of the new ones), but I’m not stressing myself out “trying” for one anymore. I’m enjoying my look for what it is and playing dungeons, collecting mats and trying to keep my goals balanced and reasonable. If you turn the game into “all about the legendary”, you may snag that shiny weapon, but if you burn out and kill the game for yourself, it won’t matter much in the long run.

Take a break. Play something else for a while and when the time is right, come back. Refresh yourself and when you return, try to keep your goals about “playing the game” the way you want to, not just for the sake of acquiring something that may or may not seem worth it in the long run. Cheers!

/edit – btw, running 10+ dungeons a day gives you 10+G (at minimum). If you need money and mats, that’s probably the fastest reliable way. Now that I’m happy with the way my character looks, I can relax and do things at my pace (more like 3 or 4 dungeons a day at most :P)

They didn’t promise anything. They planned. Big difference. It’s your fault for falsely generating those expectations, not Anet.

I know everyone here would like precursor crafting but I would rather have a stable, well-thought out system rather than a rushed one.

Anyone that doesn’t have 100’s of G (in overall stuff) to show for playing in the last year doesn’t actually play enough to justify having a Legendary/Ascended, etc…

Furthermore, Anet never promise anything … in fact, NO MMO developer will promise anything. At least I’ve never seen it. Exactly for this fact … people QQ even when they don’t deliver on untimed plans. Imaging the mayhem if they PROMISED and didn’t deliver.

I had everything but the precursor for months. When they introduced ascended crafting, I realized I had to sell a legendary or I would never equip my chars with them, so I started earning money. The recent spike in precursor prices kitten ed me off, but in the end I laughed at the idiot who listed zap for 950g and bought it at an acceptable price.

Guardian.5142:

Then, one night, after reading many folks having amazing luck with the TP, I decided to try mine. I dumped more than half my wealth into the TP, resulting in merely “The Bard”, which I sold and added the proceeds towards more TP fodder. I ended the night at about 150G with nothing to show for it.

Clarify. You got profit from flipping a precursor and then suddenly you’re down 300g?

Did your precursor market crash? Because if you still have an resalable asset that doesn’t count as an expense.

Guardian.5142:

Since then, I haven’t broken 200G and currently sit at about 4G, but again, I know why… I decided the legendaries are just not worth it at this point and went a different direction.

Do you hold the same attitude as the OP? That somehow you spending money is the games fault and a reason precursors should be cheaper? Is all the money gone or is it sitting on the trading post?

Somethin Green.3482:

I trusted you to keep 3 promises*. Now I’m burned out, tired, with a bunch of gold I have no will to spend on anything at this point, just laying there reminding me of the time I’ve wasted.

Instead of blaming ANet it might be an idea to look at how you managed to waste the endless streams of gold that falls on people while playing.

Risingashes.8694:

Guardian.5142:

Then, one night, after reading many folks having amazing luck with the TP, I decided to try mine. I dumped more than half my wealth into the TP, resulting in merely “The Bard”, which I sold and added the proceeds towards more TP fodder. I ended the night at about 150G with nothing to show for it.

Clarify. You got profit from flipping a precursor and then suddenly you’re down 300g?

Did your precursor market crash? Because if you still have an resalable asset that doesn’t count as an expense.

Guardian.5142:

Since then, I haven’t broken 200G and currently sit at about 4G, but again, I know why… I decided the legendaries are just not worth it at this point and went a different direction.

Do you hold the same attitude as the OP? That somehow you spending money is the games fault and a reason precursors should be cheaper? Is all the money gone or is it sitting on the trading post?

The bard sold for 80g… not sure what you were expecting as far as “profit” but that was a mite smaller than what I wanted, which is why I reinvested that into the TP. I could have worded that better… And then after feeling idiotic for dumping so much money, I bought other things, gems, etc just so I’d have “something” at the end of my day… and no, it didn’t help. :P I’ve gained back some and spent some. Just playing however I like now, not caring so much about getting the shiniest shinies.

And yes, in a way, I feel the OPs frustration. In my opinion, I feel like getting money in this game should be less about what sells the most on the TP and more about what you actually do to play the game. Not grinding… playing aka having fun! Grinding anything in this game is… I mean… I grinded in other games fine, but… this game…. I feel like Obi-wan shouting at Guild wars 2 immolating in lava… “YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!!” followed by a “YOU HAD ONE JOB!!!!! ONE JOB!!!” /sob

/sigh. oh well. Steam and Amazon sale downloads are finished… la la la.

Risingashes.8694:

Somethin Green.3482:

I trusted you to keep 3 promises*. Now I’m burned out, tired, with a bunch of gold I have no will to spend on anything at this point, just laying there reminding me of the time I’ve wasted.

Instead of blaming ANet it might be an idea to look at how you managed to waste the endless streams of gold that falls on people while playing.

I like that… endless steams of gold… nice imagery. One might call that a golden shower of sorts… but did they have the decency to call it rain? no.. no they didn’t….

Joking aside, the TP seems to be an honest measure of supply and demand, but the end game pricing of items follows the “casual lifers” who are willing to grind day and night for the highest numbers. To me that’s grinding…. that’s not playing the game.

Instead of downing others who don’t find the most lucrative things in game fun, try to keep in mind that its those players who play the tricks and garner massive amounts of gold that actually cause the costs to be so high. In essence, a game that actually COULD be a casual gamer’s paradise is damaged by the “casual lifers” who acquire vast wealth and then generally complain about the lack of progression (and things to spend their wealth on)…

As for “challenges”… its pve. Let’s try not to overstate the difficulty of scripted battles, especially when you do them every day. Would you really say after the 10th run of a explorable dungeon in 10 days with the same 4 folks that its really that hard? After the 30th run in a month are you struggling to do anything but stay awake? I have 10 times the respect for a top end pvper over a guy with tons of time who wants to min/max in what is really more or less an easy going game…. and to add insult to injury, the PVPers are just NOW getting set up for legendaries. They’ve rocked for how long with their only ePenis coming from giving people an impressive beatdown followed by a kitten ed awesome “finisher”. (shark and phoenix are just too kitten ed cool)

Guardian.5142:

In essence, a game that actually COULD be a casual gamer’s paradise is damaged by the “casual lifers” who acquire vast wealth and then generally complain about the lack of progression (and things to spend their wealth on)…

You’ve invented a boogieman to dump all the games problems on. The issue is that such a person cannot logically exist.

You think the OP is the noble everyman? Striving to make-do in an unbalanced world? Only to, one day, achieve his goal and then continue to give back to orphans and puppies?

No, the OP is a vagabond who wants the things he wants now, because he ‘deserves’ them. These villains who you want to hurt with modified mechanics are actually just other players who play the game and then want to sell things they don’t personally want.

The villains shout to the world, “How much will you give me” and the world shouts back a million figures. They who want it most shouts the highest and they’re the one who gets it.

Sometimes the people who shout don’t want it themselves, they know that others who aren’t there to shout will want the item far more than any person currently there. So I guess these are the true villains in your fantasy.

But if they didn’t exist future consumers couldn’t get the item or would need to pay far more, and the person who got the drop would get far less for their item. You’ve created two victims all to stop one person getting a hypothetical profit- and for who? The dolt who wanted it for himself but not as much as the future person? Why is he deserving special attention? He isn’t willing to pay as much.

So why not increase the droprate? Then you’ve hurt anyone who gets the item as it’s now worth less.

Every decision that impacts prices has a winner and a loser. The potential winners are here every day, crowing that things aren’t ‘fair’ and that an evil cabal are trying to make things horrible for everyone, but the losers would be any lucky-gun who wins a RNG roll and gets a fancy item. They deserve to be able to sell that item, and they deserve a fair price for it- a price representing it’s true value to the player who wants it most.

The whiners don’t truly want the item, if they did they’d pay the most. They want things cheaper so they can get the shiny and then complain about progression (the very thing you heap on the imaginary boogieman). They’re the actual villains you’re talking about. The guy with 10,000g and the guy willing to sell a lucky precursor, they’re the ones actually playing the game without expectation of handouts.

/end Ayn Rand mode

Syeria.4812:

See, I get that different people have different playstyles and all. What I don’t get is the people who claim to have been playing for over a year, who claim they don’t spend their in game money on much, and yet claim to have less than 100g to show for it. Something just doesn’t add up. I mean, if you don’t accidentally end up with over 1g from an hour of random playing, what are you actually doing in game?

I don’t get over 1g from an hour of random playing…. (but I also don’t sell materials that might drop for me or that I gather). You might get over 1g if you do some high end stuff, like world bosses, dungeons and fractals.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

I don’t get over 1g from an hour of random playing…. (but I also don’t sell materials that might drop for me or that I gather). You might get over 1g if you do some high end stuff, like world bosses, dungeons and fractals.

Everything that drops is worth some amount of coin. When people talk about making X gold per hour, they aren’t just saying that your bank account grows by X, they’re considering the value of the materials you harvest, the blues you salvage for luck and crafting, the bonus rare from the world boss that showed up to hand out loot to anyone who presses “1” a few times, even the whites that vendor for 10c but will sell on the TP for several times that amount.

The answer to the complaints about loot is staring us in the face, but it’s so obvious that it’s easy to be blind to it. Someone complained earlier this week that he can’t make any money, but it turned out he was sitting on hundreds of gold worth of ascended crafting materials – because, someday, he figured he’d use them. Every time I clean out my collectibles stash, I make 50 gold. I’d rather have the money than watch the vials of powerful blood pile up.

Crafting is a money sink. But there are so many people throwing money into it, that you can either spend money on it or make money from it. If you need money for something, then stop spending money on crafting some hypothetical treasure six months from now and put that money to work for you. In six months you’ll have more than enough to buy all the materials you need to finally complete your masterpiece.

tolunart.2095:

Crafting is a money sink. But there are so many people throwing money into it, that you can either spend money on it or make money from it. If you need money for something, then stop spending money on crafting some hypothetical treasure six months from now and put that money to work for you. In six months you’ll have more than enough to buy all the materials you need to finally complete your masterpiece.

True that. A lot of those complainers want everything now. But they don’t want the annoyance that is required for that: farming for gold/mats.

I still don’t have any crafting at 500, simply because I was working on my legendary. Which means my T6 fine materials were spoken for already. Now that my legendary is finished, I’ll keep my T6 fine materials for when any of my new characters need a new armour.

(oh, when I said I don’t make 1g per hour, I really don’t make 1g per hour, even if I did sell everything instead of salvaging and storing it, but I also don’t really care. I get enough to get by and I’m in no rush to get things… if I really need something “now”, I have the money ready.)

Risingashes.8694:

Guardian.5142:

In essence, a game that actually COULD be a casual gamer’s paradise is damaged by the “casual lifers” who acquire vast wealth and then generally complain about the lack of progression (and things to spend their wealth on)…

snip

/end Ayn Rand mode

I like you. You have a very different view of the world than me, but I appreciate what you took the time to write.

Like Ayn Rand, you’ve based the structure of your world on the ways of man and the things man has developed. You believe mankind’s nature has a sort of divinity as being perfectly imperfect and working as intended to fulfill what ever end it will, letting grace and compassion for your fellow man to wither in your heart like a stillborn in a dusty womb. It is a truly broken and meaningless existence when lives are valued by their productivity or usefulness to the greater good as agreed upon by the elite of men. A family is stronger bound with love and kindness than mutually beneficial agreements that only hold value so long as they are “fulfilled”. Greater is to be gained from the giving from yourself than the receiving and if we were not bound by human nature, freely giving and receiving, the powerful and self-less would be honored above all others. The precedent would be set that what you can be and do for others gives you the most value, and anyone can find a place to give of themselves, live happily and call home in such a world. BUT…. human nature happens… just like kitten.

I may sound a little naive, but my theory is that Ayn Rand would get shanked if she actually lived in the world she truly believed in. She would be quickly replaced with a younger, far more attractive person for less pay who is easier to control.

.

Specific counter to your in-game statement. The “wallstreet folks”, the ones that simply move money and value from one place to another, are actually a significant part of the reason both in-game and American economies are in decline. You can call that an imaginary “boogeyman”, but I prefer to see them for what they are, just greedy folks who don’t contribute, they just move things around and reinvest. Not bad folks, just greedy, hence the reason I believe the market needs a top end pressure, so you have a chance to someday have a buyers market, not just a constant seller’s market. A timer on all sell trades would help with that and allow the 15% tax to actually fulfill the gold sink its supposed to. It works in many other games to keep game economies in check (within reason), so… why not here?

Lastly, its a forgone conclusion to say that the “everyman” wants a handout. Rather, from what I see, the everyman wants a good market with competitive prices that doesn’t involve playing the game he didn’t buy (the TP), to enjoy all the things he wants to in the game that he DID buy (GW2). Dungeon armor and cheap exotics could be considered “welfare epics” while the greatest gear the game has to offer comes from the player dominated TP, not raiding, not through an impressive display of skill and not through a long and rewarding quest process where you gain everything you need just by ahem playing the game. (not grinding, not investing… just… playing the game naturally.)

So instead of saying: “Here’s your welfare epics, enjoy them OR you can pay MY legendary price for a legendary item. Do whatever you have to do to afford MY price”

lets instead say: "I have a week to sell Dusk on the TP and the top buy order is 500g. I better keep my sell price reasonable or I’ll have to re-list it in a week and I’m out another 15%.

Or… you know. precursor crafting/questing/rewarded for a display of gaming skill, but I’m willing to bet the timer is easier to program.

This game is not rocket surgery and its not wallstreet. If we remain reasonable, we can hit a happy medium without wealth redistribution and handing out 1st prize ribbons at the door.

I suggested a time limit on sell orders months ago — expect a huge amount of negative feedback. However I still think the change would be HUGELY beneficial to the TP, shifting power to the buyers. I suspect the resistance to posting time limits comes from flippers (the TP becomes more efficient so less room for flippers to make money).

John Smith has said that time limits inhibit the use of the TP for “investments”. He failed to clarify that further when asked (as an investment can sit in your bank vault rather than in an indefinite sell order).

TradePost – aka flip – aka commodity trade – aka take advantage of patches

got myself twilight and bolt this way and am currently working to complete sunrise for eternity