Guild Wars 2

I know theres alot of discussion about the prices of precursors recently, especially Dusk, which Im trying to save for myself as I have the rest of the T6 mats.

Ive been watching the prices on the TP the last few days again.

3 days ago it was kinda staying around 700g.
2 days ago it went down to 670g, between 7-11 available.
This morning it went down to 650g then down to 600g, 10 available.
2 hours ago they were all back upto 680g, 7 available.
10 minutes ago all 7 are 780g.

Or you could just look at this: http://www.guildwarstrade.com/item/29185

oooh Thanks for that link!

Azture.8632:

(…)
2 hours ago they were all back upto 680g, 7 available.
10 minutes ago all 7 are 780g.

Is my math off? That would seem like umm, bad business – if the implication is someone bought them and re-listed. Unless he has a few more up his sleeve and thinks on selling them for that as well.

Like the thread title, reminds me of one of my favourite authors (Pratchett).

What is your point? Someone bought them to make a legendary and the higher listed one will be shown (thus higher price), someone undercuts and lowest one gets shown (thus lower prices)

Highest buy order at the moment: 538g
Lowest selling price at the moment: 650g, next price is 725g

The only thing I can conclude from this is that:
a)A lot of buy orders have just been filled, which is a good thing, shows supply is a lot higher than most people think it is.
b)Someone just seriously undercut those that were up for sale, which is also a good thing and could be a result of all those buy orders being filled. Current supply and demand quite obviously doesn’t warrant a 700g+ price tag.

You should be happy

yesterday Dusk dropped at cursed shore event (some spider) and i sold it for 650 gold in 2 hours max

CoF runs: 4g per hour on average and is the most efficient way to make gold by farming currently.

Dusk drop randomly: 650g

Your random lucky drop just saved you over 162 hours of pure farm grind compared to someone else. No risk, no investment, no addition skill or time required.

Yeah, that design is really conducive for fun…. for about .1% of the playerbase.

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

In order to flip something to make a profit it has to sell for as least 20% more than what you payed for it. If someone buys a dusk for 650g they would have to flip it for 780g just to break even. Meaning it is not worth flipping dusks at the current price. Not like it is every worth flipping the most expensive precursor with a close to 1% profit margin.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

RNG is not a rule. Questing is not a rule. Trinity is not a rule. etc.

These are conditions that current games of the genre adhere to. You have been ‘conditioned’ to accept it and obviously have a hard time seeing anything farther than what’s already been handed to you.

It’s not about force. This isn’t a prison. It’s about fun. This is a game. And the lottery is only fun for a small fraction of the player base. That means it’s only about .1% fun. And that’s not enough fun for a system as important to the life of the game as a legendaries are, imo.

Also, if it’s sole purpose was to be a long term goal some lucky players wouldn’t be able to get to the end result so fast according to what their big drops were or how nice the mystic forge was to them. Long term goals can exist and still be fair, fun, and reward based off of effort and accomplishment.

Geikamir.6329:

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

RNG is not a rule. Questing is not a rule. Trinity is not a rule. etc.

These are conditions that current games of the genre adhere to. You have been ‘conditioned’ to accept it and obviously have a hard time seeing anything farther than what’s already been handed to you.

It’s not about force. This isn’t a prison. It’s about fun. This is a game. And the lottery is only fun for a small fraction of the player base. That means it’s only about .1% fun. And that’s not enough fun for a system as important to the life of the game as a legendaries are, imo.

Also, if it’s sole purpose was to be a long term goal some lucky players wouldn’t be able to get to the end result so fast according to what their big drops were or how nice the mystic forge was to them. Long term goals can exist and still be fair, fun, and reward based off of effort and accomplishment.

In fact RNG is a rule. Like I said. Or how would you do mobdrops etc. otherwise… static loot? No Critical hits? Welcome to grindwars… a boring static game with porenous bones as currency. Those are just examples of rng mind you.
Again noone is forcing you to play the game or go for a legendary.
If those parts are not “fun” for you the descision is entirely yours.

And your last pararaph is btw. only: “Some people have more luck than others, thats sooo unfair”. So get some arguments or play games that are entirely skill based with no random elements like chess.

RNG is the rule that is used, but it is not the only rule that could be used. It is a rule that is used a lot – so was mob tagging, the usual quest structure and the competition for harvesting nodes.

In short, they are working on adding different rules which might please a wider audience without taking away existing rules that people already like.

Really? MMO without RNG?

Rouven.7409:

RNG is the rule that is used, but it is not the only rule that could be used. It is a rule that is used a lot – so was mob tagging, the usual quest structure and the competition for harvesting nodes.

In short, they are working on adding different rules which might please a wider audience without taking away existing rules that people already like.

Please reread my post above.

Which part? The part where you say “if you don’t like it leave” or the part where you are trying to defend used mechanism with the undeniable logic that this is how it’s done? Perhaps some can imagine other ways and solutions to “problems”.

The genre can only improve if people question existing mechanics and provide their feedback – your feedback of “I like it” is not less valuable – but it’s not more valuable either and no reason to tell others to “suck it up” ever so politely.

I’ve never had a precursor as a random drop. T_T Please let me experience it Anet!

goldi.3129:

In fact RNG is a rule. Like I said. Or how would you do mobdrops etc. otherwise… static loot? No Critical hits? Welcome to grindwars… a boring static game with porenous bones as currency. Those are just examples of rng mind you.
Again noone is forcing you to play the game or go for a legendary.
If those parts are not “fun” for you the descision is entirely yours.

And your last pararaph is btw. only: “Some people have more luck than others, thats sooo unfair”. So get some arguments or play games that are entirely skill based with no random elements like chess.

I didn’t say the game should have no RNG. I said extremely low chance/high reward is not fun for anyone but the small % that are lucky.

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

And why so angry about it? Are you the same angry if someone wins the lottery in RL?
And what’s more important how is that different to drops in any other MMO that was and is on the market?

First of all, comparing to the bad practices of MMOs as justification is inherently flawed (“…and if you don’t like MMO’s you should REALLY check out GW2”).

Secondly, just because something already exists (like the lottery) doesn’t mean it’s a fun design. The only people that benefit from the system are the lottery winners, which are a very, very, very small % of the participates.

In a multiplayer game, RNG is small doses is fine. It’s the excessive levels that ruin the experience for many. Low chance/high reward is just not fun, inventive, intriguing, or satisfying for anyone but the lucky.

Is this your first MMO? RNG is one of the main parts of every MMO. Whether it is in drops, damage rolls etc. So if you don’t like one of the BASIC mechanismns of mmos… maybe play another game?
Or do you complain about the the rules of soccer as well? Also GW2 mentioned from the beginning that it would have a cosmetic grind. So I don’t know where you got that quote of, probably self made.
GW2 does a lot of things different than other MMOs, but is still an MMO.

And to your secondly: Noone forces you to play the lottery, noone forces you to get a legendary. I wouldn’t complain if I lost money in the lottery- you shouldn’t complain that a legendary (proclaimed as long time goal by Anet, source in some posts I made already) takes a long time.

RNG is not a rule. Questing is not a rule. Trinity is not a rule. etc.

These are conditions that current games of the genre adhere to. You have been ‘conditioned’ to accept it and obviously have a hard time seeing anything farther than what’s already been handed to you.

It’s not about force. This isn’t a prison. It’s about fun. This is a game. And the lottery is only fun for a small fraction of the player base. That means it’s only about .1% fun. And that’s not enough fun for a system as important to the life of the game as a legendaries are, imo.

Also, if it’s sole purpose was to be a long term goal some lucky players wouldn’t be able to get to the end result so fast according to what their big drops were or how nice the mystic forge was to them. Long term goals can exist and still be fair, fun, and reward based off of effort and accomplishment.

In fact RNG is a rule. Like I said. Or how would you do mobdrops etc. otherwise… static loot? No Critical hits? Welcome to grindwars… a boring static game with porenous bones as currency. Those are just examples of rng mind you.
Again noone is forcing you to play the game or go for a legendary.
If those parts are not “fun” for you the descision is entirely yours.

And your last pararaph is btw. only: “Some people have more luck than others, thats sooo unfair”. So get some arguments or play games that are entirely skill based with no random elements like chess.

As it SHOULD be, for obvious reasons. What RNG should NOT be the rule for, is “Legendary” items. People wouldn’t be complaining so much about it, if precursors were put on a system, that didn’t consist of surrounding your self with old dry chicken bones, throwing salt over your shoulder, spinning 3 times, lining up a row of “troll dolls”, and making a wish on your “rabbits foot”, In the hopes that it would bring you enough “luck” to get one.

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Geikamir.6329:

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

This is patently false. If you work hard and long, you will attain it.

While it’s okay to hold an opinion of not liking the RNG precursor system, please don’t try to act like it’s the only method. Because it isn’t.

It’s annoying. I’m working my kitten of to get that legendary by farming/grinding gold. You saying that my efforts are misplaced? That my time is wasted and I’ll never get it? Thanks.

Ursan.7846:

Geikamir.6329:

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

This is patently false. If you work hard and long, you will attain it.

While it’s okay to hold an opinion of not liking the RNG precursor system, please don’t try to act like it’s the only method. Because it isn’t.

It’s annoying. I’m working my kitten of to get that legendary by farming/grinding gold. You saying that my efforts are misplaced? That my time is wasted and I’ll never get it? Thanks.

Not what my argument was.

Geikamir.6329:

Not what my argument was.

It’s statement you made to justify your argument. One that isn’t true at all and really annoys me because I fall under a category that apparently don’t exist according to you.

EDIT: And a strawman on top of that too. The previous poster never said anything along the lines of “legendaries are impossible to get no matter how long and hard you work”

Ursan.7846:

Geikamir.6329:

Not what my argument was.

It’s statement you made to justify your argument. One that isn’t true at all and really annoys me because I fall under a category that apparently don’t exist according to you.

I was quoting him and then asking him a question based off that quote.

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

I’ll quote Arena Net again: “And if you hate MMO’s you should REALLY try GW2…”

Comparing this game to the bad habits of it’s predecessors is flawed from the start. Instead of just saying how others have had done things worse helps no one. Let’s just address the issue at hand in this game.

And to your last point: RNG does not make something prestigious. If it involved actual skill and/or challenge on an equal level for all those involved I would have no problem with the system. The problem is fairness and fun. And lotteries are neither of those things (except for the VERY small percentage of winners).

There is nothing wrong with small scale RNG (like crit chance) because the level of reward and rarity are both very minor. The median level intended is reached very often and easily. It’s when extremes are used that some people, no matter how much they try and work towards their goal, can seemingly never obtain their goal (speaking in general terms here). And others can be rewarded instantly with potentially no work, effort, or maybe even care involved.

If you dislike RNG you can still buy it from TP.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

If you dislike RNG you can still buy it from TP.

At a price that changes at the whim of the players.

If there was a NPC that sold them at a set price instead of only RNG and the TP (which are sold from those players that obtained them via RNG), there would be no issue at all. Because it would be fair equally for all players.

Oh yeah. Player spent hundreds of gold on MF trying to get precursor but he should sell it for 80 gold to make community happy.

There are three (3) ways to obtain the precursor. If you don’t like one you just pick another. Don’t like MF way? Buy one from TP or do the dragons and wish for luck.
I got a feeling that the problem is not the way of obtaining them but the difficulty of it. It’s hard and it supposed to be hard.
A lot people is saying that they refuse to get one because they don’t like provided way of getting one, even that they got enough money to buy one instantly. Fine for me but why they whine about it on the forum if they have made this kind of decision?

Finally ANet will provide us with another way of getting your desired precursor but I’ll bet anyone that when they do that people will still think is too hard and complain about it because all they want is simple solution.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Oh yeah. Player spent hundreds of gold on MF trying to get precursor but he should sell it for 80 gold to make community happy.

There are three (3) ways to obtain the precursor. If you don’t like one you just pick another. Don’t like MF way? Buy one from TP or do the dragons and wish for luck.
I got a feeling that the problem is not the way of obtaining them but the difficulty of it. It’s hard and it supposed to be hard.
A lot people is saying that they refuse to get one because they don’t like provided way of getting one, even that they got enough money to buy one instantly. Fine for me but why they whine about it on the forum if they have made this kind of decision?

Finally ANet will provide us with another way of getting your desired precursor but I’ll bet anyone that when they do that people will still think is too hard and complain about it because all they want is simple solution.

It’s like you aren’t even reading what I type.

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Oh yeah. Player spent hundreds of gold on MF trying to get precursor but he should sell it for 80 gold to make community happy.

There are three (3) ways to obtain the precursor. If you don’t like one you just pick another. Don’t like MF way? Buy one from TP or do the dragons and wish for luck.
I got a feeling that the problem is not the way of obtaining them but the difficulty of it. It’s hard and it supposed to be hard.
A lot people is saying that they refuse to get one because they don’t like provided way of getting one, even that they got enough money to buy one instantly. Fine for me but why they whine about it on the forum if they have made this kind of decision?

Finally ANet will provide us with another way of getting your desired precursor but I’ll bet anyone that when they do that people will still think is too hard and complain about it because all they want is simple solution.

It’s like you aren’t even reading what I type.

He did. You were wrong. I do realize you don’t want to pay so much in game gold for the coolest skin in game. There’s no further discussion possible because you don’t want the item apparently.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

You said if someone dislikes RNG they can go to the TP. But that’s not a fair way to handle it either, because it so easy to manipulate the price. One player can buy it for one price and the very next day it could be a huge % more expensive. For the average player, the price increases FAR faster than they can even earn the gold. No one likes the goal post being constantly moved back.

An NPC has no affect to the uniqueness of the item. Just because it’s not random, doesn’t mean it can’t be difficult.

B-but precursors aren’t manipulated or anything, it’s just supply and demand, right guys?

… Right?

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

You said if someone dislikes RNG they can go to the TP. But that’s not a fair way to handle it either, because it so easy to manipulate the price. One player can buy it for one price and the very next day it could be a huge % more expensive. For the average player, the price increases FAR faster than they can even earn the gold. No one likes the goal post being constantly moved back.

An NPC has no affect to the uniqueness of the item. Just because it’s not random, doesn’t mean it can’t be difficult.

Sorry but no. It was possible back in the day when it was around 100g. In fact I know many people and guilds who did just that but now, when the price is around 700g for GS you will have to sell it for around 800ish gold just to brake even. If you want bigger profit you have to add this to the price as well. Trust me to anyone who knows anything about TP is just too risky and not worthy at all.
You invest massive amount of gold in one item just to break even or 5% gain? You mast be out of your mind to do that.

If you would try to craft it from MF yourself and you would see how much money you have to spend then you would start to think that the TP price is actually pretty fair. You can check this forum (crafting section) for estimated data. Average of 2000 GS and you still don’t have guarantee to get one.
World drop it’s a different story but you need to be extreme lucky.
Ohh I almost forgot that people on this forum actually hate other players that got their precursor this way because to them is unfair. What’s wrong with you people…

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

You said if someone dislikes RNG they can go to the TP. But that’s not a fair way to handle it either, because it so easy to manipulate the price. One player can buy it for one price and the very next day it could be a huge % more expensive. For the average player, the price increases FAR faster than they can even earn the gold. No one likes the goal post being constantly moved back.

An NPC has no affect to the uniqueness of the item. Just because it’s not random, doesn’t mean it can’t be difficult.

Sorry but know. It was possible back in the day when it was around 100g. In fact I know many people and guilds who did just that but now, when the price is around 700g for GS you will have to sell it for around 800ish gold just to brake even. If you want bigger profit you have to add this to the price as well. Trust me to anyone who knows anything about TP is just too risky and not worthy at all.
You invest massive amount of gold in one item just to break even or 5% gain? You mast be out of your mind to do that.

So some players will have to spend multiple times more for the same item that defines the endgame of the game than others even though they worked just as hard or harder. Again, that’s not fun or fair for anyone except for the lucky few.

It’s obvious you don’t mind this design so there is really no more reason for me and you to discuss it any farther.

I don’t know how old are you but you better get use to it cos that’s life.

And no I don’t mind the design I’ve worked hard to achieve my precursor and I know it’s possible to get one using ways implemented in the game. Question is how much you want it?
I actually learn a lot as a result of getting one.

There are many possible lucky drops. Everyone eventually gets one, that’s the law of big numbers. In GW1 I got an EL kuunavang and sold it for 500 ecto. I managed to buy out my HoM with that. By just playing, such things eventually happen. Don’t fret over it.

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

You said if someone dislikes RNG they can go to the TP. But that’s not a fair way to handle it either, because it so easy to manipulate the price. One player can buy it for one price and the very next day it could be a huge % more expensive. For the average player, the price increases FAR faster than they can even earn the gold. No one likes the goal post being constantly moved back.

An NPC has no affect to the uniqueness of the item. Just because it’s not random, doesn’t mean it can’t be difficult.

Sorry but no. It was possible back in the day when it was around 100g. In fact I know many people and guilds who did just that but now, when the price is around 700g for GS you will have to sell it for around 800ish gold just to brake even. If you want bigger profit you have to add this to the price as well. Trust me to anyone who knows anything about TP is just too risky and not worthy at all.
You invest massive amount of gold in one item just to break even or 5% gain? You mast be out of your mind to do that.

If you would try to craft it from MF yourself and you would see how much money you have to spend then you would start to think that the TP price is actually pretty fair. You can check this forum (crafting section) for estimated data. Average of 2000 GS and you still don’t have guarantee to get one.
World drop it’s a different story but you need to be extreme lucky.
Ohh I almost forgot that people on this forum actually hate other players that got their precursor this way because to them is unfair. What’s wrong with you people…

I’m actually amazed when someone misses the point this badly. The problem is that there is no equity in the current implementation of the precursor system, or in any system which relies on extremely long odds. Of the 3 possible methods to obtain precursors, 2 rely on extremely low droprates. What this means is that a person can flush many thousands of weapons and kill many thousands of dragons, and never see a drop. At the same time, another person will get it the first time he puts 4 rare weapons into the toilet, or on his first dragon. This kind of system, if it were the only way, breeds enmity and ill-will, neither of which is good for the long term health of a game.

But you can buy it off of the tp, you say? Because there is no vendor for these items, no amount of daily/monthly questing that will accomplish the task, there is no cap, hard or soft, on what players can list these items for. Whether there is significant manipulation or not, players will constantly see the goal posts being moved back on them.

Please remember that nobody has an objective outlook on this; nobody has the right answer. If you have a legendary already, you are invested in keeping the weapon as unique as possible so you still feel special. If you have an investment in the precursor market, even indirectly, then you are invested in the status quo. If you do not have a legendary and you want one, you are invested in change. The only people who could possibly be objective about this are those who have no interest in obtaining the weapons, and no investment in any component of the creation of said weapons. Right?

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

I’ll quote Arena Net again: “And if you hate MMO’s you should REALLY try GW2…”

Comparing this game to the bad habits of it’s predecessors is flawed from the start. Instead of just saying how others have had done things worse helps no one. Let’s just address the issue at hand in this game.

And to your last point: RNG does not make something prestigious. If it involved actual skill and/or challenge on an equal level for all those involved I would have no problem with the system. The problem is fairness and fun. And lotteries are neither of those things (except for the VERY small percentage of winners).

There is nothing wrong with small scale RNG (like crit chance) because the level of reward and rarity are both very minor. The median level intended is reached very often and easily. It’s when extremes are used that some people, no matter how much they try and work towards their goal, can seemingly never obtain their goal (speaking in general terms here). And others can be rewarded instantly with potentially no work, effort, or maybe even care involved.

Well compare it to other MMOs. There you usually grind the same RAID instance for months till you get that “cool looking wicked item”. And compete with a dozen others on that drop if rng favors you.

You don’t need to do that in gw2, in fact you can get a legendary nearly 90% of the way solo and in the “worst” case in small groups. So they did infact introduce something new. That you don’t like the prize… well your problem. Its still new aproach.

goldi.3129:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

You guys forget about one thing. Without RNG Legendary wouldn’t be unique anymore. Everyone playing game long enough would run with one and people had one after playing the game for 2 months. Not even that, majority of the people that complains got their gifts ready and they are only missing precursor.
Sorry but Legendary weapons wouldn’t be what they’re now when half of the GW2 population would run with one. And it’s not like it’s impossible to even get one with the system implemented. You only need to try.

“Everyone playing [the] game long enough would run with one…”

So you’re telling me you support a system that no matter how long or hard someone strives to succeed something they may never attain it?

Having lottery level RNG does not make something prestigious. It makes the major end game item a cheapened experience where some are unfairly rewarded for their effort (or lack their of) and others are punished for not being lucky enough.

Once again I am not saying is good or bad. I am saying RNG is a part of a genre. Can you name MMO without RNG? The whole point of a unique item is its uniqueness and that means not everyone can have it/ obtain it. And that is not even true with Legendary. I have played in many MMOs and in some of them you have really had item that were literally impossible to get (Aion for example).
Now if everyone around was running with Legendary would they still maintain its “value”? Would that be still desired by players?

I’ll quote Arena Net again: “And if you hate MMO’s you should REALLY try GW2…”

Comparing this game to the bad habits of it’s predecessors is flawed from the start. Instead of just saying how others have had done things worse helps no one. Let’s just address the issue at hand in this game.

And to your last point: RNG does not make something prestigious. If it involved actual skill and/or challenge on an equal level for all those involved I would have no problem with the system. The problem is fairness and fun. And lotteries are neither of those things (except for the VERY small percentage of winners).

There is nothing wrong with small scale RNG (like crit chance) because the level of reward and rarity are both very minor. The median level intended is reached very often and easily. It’s when extremes are used that some people, no matter how much they try and work towards their goal, can seemingly never obtain their goal (speaking in general terms here). And others can be rewarded instantly with potentially no work, effort, or maybe even care involved.

Well compare it to other MMOs. There you usually grind the same RAID instance for months till you get that “cool looking wicked item”. And compete with a dozen others on that drop if rng favors you.

You don’t need to do that in gw2, in fact you can get a legendary nearly 90% of the way solo and in the “worst” case in small groups. So they did infact introduce something new. That you don’t like the prize… well your problem. Its still new aproach.

Thanks for quoting my post and then proceeding to completely disregard it.

hoyasaxa.1974:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

Geikamir.6329:

OZtheWiZARD.2401:

No I did. I was referring to your first sentence.
I don’t think NPC is a good idea because again the item will loose its uniqueness.
SH will be better but only if they make it really hard.

You said if someone dislikes RNG they can go to the TP. But that’s not a fair way to handle it either, because it so easy to manipulate the price. One player can buy it for one price and the very next day it could be a huge % more expensive. For the average player, the price increases FAR faster than they can even earn the gold. No one likes the goal post being constantly moved back.

An NPC has no affect to the uniqueness of the item. Just because it’s not random, doesn’t mean it can’t be difficult.

Sorry but no. It was possible back in the day when it was around 100g. In fact I know many people and guilds who did just that but now, when the price is around 700g for GS you will have to sell it for around 800ish gold just to brake even. If you want bigger profit you have to add this to the price as well. Trust me to anyone who knows anything about TP is just too risky and not worthy at all.
You invest massive amount of gold in one item just to break even or 5% gain? You mast be out of your mind to do that.

If you would try to craft it from MF yourself and you would see how much money you have to spend then you would start to think that the TP price is actually pretty fair. You can check this forum (crafting section) for estimated data. Average of 2000 GS and you still don’t have guarantee to get one.
World drop it’s a different story but you need to be extreme lucky.
Ohh I almost forgot that people on this forum actually hate other players that got their precursor this way because to them is unfair. What’s wrong with you people…

I’m actually amazed when someone misses the point this badly. The problem is that there is no equity in the current implementation of the precursor system, or in any system which relies on extremely long odds. Of the 3 possible methods to obtain precursors, 2 rely on extremely low droprates. What this means is that a person can flush many thousands of weapons and kill many thousands of dragons, and never see a drop. At the same time, another person will get it the first time he puts 4 rare weapons into the toilet, or on his first dragon. This kind of system, if it were the only way, breeds enmity and ill-will, neither of which is good for the long term health of a game.

But you can buy it off of the tp, you say? Because there is no vendor for these items, no amount of daily/monthly questing that will accomplish the task, there is no cap, hard or soft, on what players can list these items for. Whether there is significant manipulation or not, players will constantly see the goal posts being moved back on them.

Please remember that nobody has an objective outlook on this; nobody has the right answer. If you have a legendary already, you are invested in keeping the weapon as unique as possible so you still feel special. If you have an investment in the precursor market, even indirectly, then you are invested in the status quo. If you do not have a legendary and you want one, you are invested in change. The only people who could possibly be objective about this are those who have no interest in obtaining the weapons, and no investment in any component of the creation of said weapons. Right?

You are forgetting about one key thing.
Precursor is a rare item, something that has been mentioned on this forum on many occasions, and that is why its drop rate is so low, because if it wouldn’t then it wouldn’t be rare anymore. It would be common. Everyone would have one and a Legendary item later. There is not a problem to get all the other gifts, you can do it in month’s time playing the game. It’s not the gifts people are struggling with. Precursor is what make Legendary weapon unique and I believe that was ANet goal when they’re designing ways to get one.
Lets move a way from the discussion about the ways of getting one and look on the item itself. How do you make item unique? You’re setting very low drop rate on it. Of course there is an other way, but that is usually the simplest and the most effective one.
The other would be to design very difficult chain of quests (aka. SH?) but I bet it will still have some RNG elements in it. If you have ever played Aion then think about Fenris/ Miragent quest if you didn’t then just google it and you will have the idea of what I am talking about.

Deep inside I got this feeling that SH will turns badly and people will still whine about it because they want an easy solution. Lest be honest, and I am talking in the name of all the players that already got their precursors, it is possible to get it using the ways already implemented in the game. It is difficult, time and resource consuming, but completely possible. Everyone who is saying otherwise didn’t even try to get one.
Yes, there were people who got lucky and got theirs for “free”. My guildmate got one from Karka event. But that is fair because guess what, everyone got the very same chance to receive one. Someone got lucky someone didn’t but that’s completely normal. The chance of getting one was and still is equal for everyone.
I have worked hard to get mine but do I hate players who didn’t? No. Why would I. I would dislike when they would change the way and make it easier just to please the crying portion of this forum but that’s the different story.
Because I worked hard to get mine I feel my achievement more complete, more distinctive and that’s a good feeling. I learned so many in the process of doing that. Because I had to research how to achieve what I want. It is all there. It is not a forbidden knowledge and it’s nothing difficult either. As I said before all you need is to try.

Why should a precursor (a weapon at that) be so rare that it usually ends up as the last part in making a legendary. As a weapon, shouldn’t they have a purpose like being equipped rather than sitting in storage waiting for the price to go up or something?

It should, but the Rage sigil is worthless and you can’t change it.

Zom doesn’t accept other sigils AFAIK.

Leo Paul.1659:

Why should a precursor (a weapon at that) be so rare that it usually ends up as the last part in making a legendary. As a weapon, shouldn’t they have a purpose like being equipped rather than sitting in storage waiting for the price to go up or something?

Because its a precursor? that’s in its name.
And that’s the only item that makes Legendary unique. Everything else you’ll get with easy. Without even trying. Simply playing the game. You can get a precursor that way as well, don’t get me wrong, but usually you have to actually work towards one to get it.

I got six precursors so far and will start working towards my my third legendary weapon. Twilight and Bolt for now. I really dont get the problem.

If you do things right, you dont even have to farm, but play the game, while the TP works for you. With a minimal daily effort you can get 20-30g a day from TP and add your ingame drops ontop of that. Whoever goes to orr to farm hours of DE for money has to rethink this boring method of waisting time. If you go there once in a while to farm T6 mats its fully enough.

@duskprice: if there werent people willing and/or able to pay 700g for a precursor, the price would skyrocket into the ground.

Things working fine, ANet. Please dont change anything.

As for casual gamers with 5-10 hours online each week: well, you are not missing anything by not having that weapon. A hobby physicist wont get published in Nature neither.