Guild Wars 2

With the ability to buy gems (something Anet sells for real cash) for in game currency, I figured it would be a screwed up system. But it is worse.

Beyond selling blue crafting materials (and even those are getting crushed by BOTs) there isnt really anything you can sell on the TP that you cant vendor for the same or better due to fees and ‘taxes’.

Completed crafted items prices are a complete joke. Have been since day one. Absolutely no reason to craft other than for EXP (and I think they nerfed that) or for something to do. Surely arent going to make or even save money doing it.

First problem is everyone can collect everything. There is no limitation to what people can collect other than level which with the ease of leveling isnt an issue at all. So right now the only thing keeping prices for the basic materials up is the influx of new players, which will eventually slow down, already has actually. So once that happens even basic crafting materials will be vendor fodder.

Also the gem exchange, talk about a turn around. Not sure if Anet devalued them on their own and cut the rates in half internally or not but the exchange rate is a joke now. A month ago 1G would get you anywhere from 365 to 410 gems. Now 1G wont get you 250. 232 as of this morning. Buying gems and trading them for cash on the other hand hasnt risen nearly as much as the other side has fallen. But you still have to sped the same amount of real cash for them.

I also have to think many people are still buying gems with real cash, yet the exchange isnt moving like it did, (as you would expect). It has done nothing but go down and stay down for the past 3 weeks.

So in the end the so called economy in this game is vendoring 99% of your stuff, maybe salvaging a couple items for ectos and trying to sell those, or maybe a couple runes that might sell for a silver or so above the vendor price of the item. It surely doesnt offer the ability to make money or ‘play’ the TP.

That might raise some ire from people as they think they can, but what these people dont understand is all that stuff they have horded and think will be worth something is being created and collected by BOTs faster than they can horde it so it will never go up in price. At least not in the demand they need to sell the quantities they have.

“Best” solution? Stack magic find, run instances vendor drops. At least until they start nerfing MF and/or have the diminishing returns kick in faster.

“It surely doesnt offer the ability to make money or ‘play’ the TP.”

My initial investment has paid back by more than a factor 10 over the ~3 weeks I’ve played the TP. And that’s in actual gold coins available for me to use, not some expected future returns from stockpiled goods.

Crafting is and always has been worth 10 levels of XP per 400 levels of crafting. If you learn and then forget each craft in turn, you’ll get to level 80 without ever leaving your starting city.

Crappy crafted items sell for vendor+1c because they’re crappy and far more are created than desired.

Basic materials, on the other hand, will likely always sell for a profit because people are willing to pay gold for at least some of them instead of taking the time required to farm or gather everything they need for crafting.

And finally, as I and others have said many other places, GW2 is entirely playable and entirely enjoyable even if you avoid the BLTC and crafting completely. So even if the economy is irrevocably broken, what real harm does that cause you?

You are described current situation – and what exactly is wrong?

Price on gems steadily rising (yes even converting gems into gold). A lot of items have very low pricing on TP – cause they represent real value only to minority of players. What you want – earn gold on crafting? This is possible – but not as simple as buyout from TP, craft item and put it on sell. Each update on mystic forge recipes can give you a lot of gold (recent events: butter went from 2c → 14c, that alone is 9c (14*0.85 – 2) pure profit on single butter, should i mention mystic coins which went from 50c → 2s50c).

Frankly…nothing is wrong…it’s just not the type of economy op is expecting…an economic culture shock if you would.

I’ve made quite a bit of gold just flipping items on the TP, you can definitely “play” it. Compared to many MMOs, the economy in gw2 seems pretty healthy.

Yup…seems healthy to me too…people got so used to unhealthy economy that they think it’s normal.

i personally find the TP to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game – it’s a lot fun and i wouldn’t change a thing. just watching the market trends and the stories they tell is fun – for example, the price of copper ore has been in a tailspin all week. i think that says a lot about what is going on in the game. i also think i could spend most of my time in-game watching the market and crafting and never get bored.

I’ve been trying to craft some jewelry for a little extra on the side. The more profitable items (nets of 150%+ over crafting costs) have been slowly and potentially deliberately lowering in price in small, layered amounts, down to the point where people seem to be “actively” selling their wares well-below break-even level.

This strikes me as odd because there is no other real use for sub-80 or even 80 rares besides making them for yourself (either for XP, use, or both) or selling them, and I’m not sure why someone would destroy that small segment of the market. I grasp the desire to multiply your stacks faster by selling lower and taking less off the top, but if an item will sell at 20-24s within a day there is no reason to drive the price to 15s or even 11.

If that isn’t direct manipulation, who would do that guilelessly? And if the answer is (as it seems to be) “the general population would,” then that’s the entire problem.

Well, the problem is, with a system that’s been hard-core switched to FIFO, you’ve got millions of players now trying to buy/sell their items and get out of the market with as much profit as they can. In a FIFO system, selling lower, means selling faster. Who wants to leave their stuff up for days or even weeks while watching every Ben & Jerry undercut any chance they have of selling? Of course people are going to drive the price down. It’s the only logical thing they can do if they want to turn a profit in a reasonable amount of time.

I’ve been whining about it for 3 days in another thread. With nearly 2 millions players all trading on the same TP, a FIFO system was an utterly ridiculous decision. Sure, it works out for ArenaNet – driving the prices down, means more people will have to buy gems and exchange them for coin, is they wish to experience high-end game stuffs. But in the long run, it pisses the players off, and makes them extremely hesitant to trust/utilize the TP.

Most players have no idea about the FIFO fix and wouldn’t care about it even if they knew about it.

Also, simply driving prices down does not force people to buy gems, because the prices of the higher-end stuff they want to buy also go down as well.

lackofcheese.5617:

Also, simply driving prices down does not force people to buy gems, because the prices of the higher-end stuff they want to buy also go down as well.

That applies only until we start talking about the static prices on high-end items that ArenaNet sets. While prices go down on other items, these items stay the same.

Furthermore, if/when they are introduced, the gold prices on houses, guild buildings etc, will likewise not be merciful to we the players, simply because the amount we can earn is reduced.

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, encouraging players to buy gems. But, since the game is F2P, ArenaNet has a common sense interest in making money from players who’ve already bought the game. Gems are one of the best ways to do that, wouldn’t you agree?

lackofcheese.5617:

Most players have no idea about the FIFO fix and wouldn’t care about it even if they knew about it.

Oh I think most have noticed a change, they simply don’t know what brought it about.

Well the value of gold is actually being determined by bots. Ive reported the same 50 bots for weeks now, and yet they still roam free.

They not only drive item(farmed) prices down, but send premium items skyrocketing.

I figure two more weeks, if i still see hordes of bots, then its time to move on to other games.

I don’t have proof yet but did you check " Black Lion Trading Company " for some items price ?

e.g. :
Dusk ( GreatSword for epic item ) 274.99 gold atm min and max 299.99
The Legend ( Staff for epic item ) 182.99 min
etc.. etc… etc.

or please check crafting mats.

So in-game atm you are fighting with gold selling and farming with diffrent ways but most of gold sellers using this method and BLTC (TP) .. Not everyone but they are selling this kind items with huge golds for their profits.

Same thing happened at WoW, Lineage and most of MMO and now here. You know they have time to spend, they have ppl to employ etc etc. But most of us just casual or semi casual players.

I can understand some items must be hard to get but at least you must find the way to fight with this. Like you can reveal that ( e.g epic base items ) item recipes so ppl can work for it, can spend time for it in your game.

But this way you are just allowing or leading gold-sellers for getting more gold for their pockets.

At first place you must fight about this if you ask me.

I’m the one undercutting you on the TP by 1 copper, its just business, don’t take it personally.

Rodarin.6058:

Also the gem exchange, talk about a turn around. Not sure if Anet devalued them on their own and cut the rates in half internally or not but the exchange rate is a joke now. A month ago 1G would get you anywhere from 365 to 410 gems. Now 1G wont get you 250. 232 as of this morning. Buying gems and trading them for cash on the other hand hasnt risen nearly as much as the other side has fallen. But you still have to sped the same amount of real cash for them.

I’d hate to burst you pretty bubble of indignation, but gem purchase & sale prices have constantly moved in sync as you can see in the attached screenshot of one of the multiple webpages that track gem prices.

meloncash.6798:

I’m the one undercutting you on the TP by 1 copper, its just business, don’t take it personally.

It’s only a profitable business when you can sell the item for more than its constituent parts though. The problem with most everything that you can sell that’s crafted, is your 99.99% of the time better off selling the items that made it for a bigger profit.

I saw Loaf of Omnomberry Bread go from 4s each to 1s 80c in less than 6 hours due to successive people adding 1 more loaf the to pile for 1c less. The end result is the guy/gall selling for 1s 80c should have not bothered making the thing and sold its parts instead. Any argument made to say they are made to level crafting is out with Omnomberry Bread seeing as they are 400 cook recipe.

Taiance.6213:

meloncash.6798:

I’m the one undercutting you on the TP by 1 copper, its just business, don’t take it personally.

It’s only a profitable business when you can sell the item for more than its constituent parts though. The problem with most everything that you can sell that’s crafted, is your 99.99% of the time better off selling the items that made it for a bigger profit.

I saw Loaf of Omnomberry Bread go from 4s each to 1s 80c in less than 6 hours due to successive people adding 1 more loaf the to pile for 1c less. The end result is the guy/gall selling for 1s 80c should have not bothered making the thing and sold its parts instead. Any argument made to say they are made to level crafting is out with Omnomberry Bread seeing as they are 400 cook recipe.

Variable you are not accounting for is turnover. Which sells quicker or in higher quantity, the finished item, or the material to make it. I’m not agruing for either case, just pointing out that this is important in deciding to sell materials istead of finished item… even at the same prices.

I sold a bit of Omnomberry Bread below the ingredient cost earlier, but that was mostly because I bought it for even less. Granted, I could’ve just held on to it and waited for the prices to rice; I’ve done that with 64 units of it as well.

John Smith.4610:

Everyone should keep in mind that the value of gold is mostly defined by its scarcity.

Beg to differ John but the value of gold with the current state of the game is being mostly defined by botters. I have nearly 600 hours played so far and yet I don’t even come close to affording any of the “elite” items being sold by botters at the moment. With their ability to farm unlimited amounts with nearly no penalty for doing so, botters are determining the value of gold. Since they control the economy via the TP they can raise or lower prices at will.

Consider this – with the last patch and “sweep” of bots most items in the TP increased in value…but only for 2-3 days and have now begun to drop again. This is happening as the botter population increases. Without more control over them A-Net can explain all they want about the economy but the reality is bots control it – not the players and certainly not A-Net.

Sorry.

3 huge problems with crafting and selling on ah:
1) you drop craptons of blue and green stuff, people just dont need to buy anything before 80 because they will drop stuff “just good enough” ten times more what they need.
this causes a basic deflation as what people dont need has no worth.

2) crafting is just too good a source of xp, most people dont craft to gain gold or even just to equip themselves but as a fast leveling route, people which wont even try to fight for a gain when selling what they have crafted, just selling at minimum asking price.
the discovery mechanic compound this problem even more as it will assure that people to gain exp will craft an even spread of every possible combination of items (instead of lazily just stick crafting the easiest one until it will give no exp anymore as they would have done with most crafting systems) and then dump them on ah at minimum price so basically there’s nearly no niche untouched.

3) anet somehow forgot to count the taxes with their “you cant sell under merchant rate”, even not counting the money they lose from lost sale of the material used for crafting, people is still selling at a loss just from sales taxes.

meloncash.6798:

I’m the one undercutting you on the TP by 1 copper, its just business, don’t take it personally.

That would be really funny, except its not.

The other night I found 10 dyes that had a great spread on them. I placed 5unit-buy orders on each of them. When those orders were filled, I went to re-list at the sell price I had just looked at. However, immediately after I placed my buy orders, 2 sell orders were placed by one user, -exactly- at break even price compared to the buy/bid wall, effectively shutting down profitable trading in the gap. I purchased one of said units at the break-even, and immediately, another unit was placed by that same one ‘user’. Bold behavior honestly, and it stood out because those sells at break even were placed -way- lower than the current sell prices.

I moved from dye to dye doing this for several hours, and each time, this same pattern repeated itself. It ended when I went from ordering 5 units at one price to 1 unit at that price.

This is serious botting behavior, and you can see massive signs of this not only on the TP, but in the rest of the game environment as well. If they don’t find a way to deal with it, it’s going to destroy the game.

I would also like to point out that at present:

To sell 2x Gems, will net you 36c

To buy 2x Gems will cost you 1.09s

LoL – uhm, can someone tell me the point of the Gem exchange again?

the concept of gems is that they have to be profitable FOR ARENANET, not for the user…
is their second biggest source of money after all.

Beyond selling blue crafting materials (and even those are getting crushed by BOTs) there isnt really anything you can sell on the TP that you cant vendor for the same or better due to fees and ‘taxes’.

The 15 Gold I make per day (on average) purely from buying/selling both mats and finished goods via the TP beg to differ.

I’m confident bots will get handled eventually (there are about two dozen almost-naked bots in frostgorge – directly south of the trading post near yakington’s toil waypoint right now) – I wish there were some way to report a location where they are massing, as opposed to having to report individual bots. They are massed so tightly there, I can’t tell which ones I’ve reported, etc.

At any rate – there are only so many markets the bots can truly impact – mostly low-level stuff. It’s a downside, to be sure, but there are thousands of items on the market, and all it takes is a willingness to do a little homework to turn a profit.

I think it’s a pretty normal economy for an MMO, which is completely bonkers but expected. If you wanted a real healthy economy, you would have to go full-on EVE style with no NPC vendors, destroyable “gear” that constantly needs to be replaced, and continued demand for “low-level” gear even at endgame (because all the ships from the smallest to the largest are used in different circumstances).

As it is, supply will always outpace demand for the vast majority of items and only the very rare (like fine crafting mats) will be actually traded above vendor price.

Savage Deathknell.2036:

Beyond selling blue crafting materials (and even those are getting crushed by BOTs) there isnt really anything you can sell on the TP that you cant vendor for the same or better due to fees and ‘taxes’.

The 15 Gold I make per day (on average) purely from buying/selling both mats and finished goods via the TP beg to differ.

I’m confident bots will get handled eventually (there are about two dozen almost-naked bots in frostgorge – directly south of the trading post near yakington’s toil waypoint right now) – I wish there were some way to report a location where they are massing, as opposed to having to report individual bots. They are massed so tightly there, I can’t tell which ones I’ve reported, etc.

At any rate – there are only so many markets the bots can truly impact – mostly low-level stuff. It’s a downside, to be sure, but there are thousands of items on the market, and all it takes is a willingness to do a little homework to turn a profit.

lets not forget that AH too is bottable, there’s a lot more money into automatizing the buying low – selling high than from foraging in the field.

Necrollis.4372:

I would also like to point out that at present:

To sell 2x Gems, will net you 36c

To buy 2x Gems will cost you 1.09s

Um, where are you getting those numbers? As far as I can tell, there has never been a 3-fold difference between buy and sell prices for gems. In the past five days, the highest price to buy 100 gems has been 47s, and the lowest amount of money you could get for 100 gems was 26s. And those weren’t even at the same time, since buy and sell prices move exactly in sync at all times.

Bots have already greatly effected the economy to almost a point that if you dont run a bot yourself, you will unlikely be able to catch up, and be able to accomplish your goals.

Botting needs to move up the priority list now. Its simple as that. If they even dedicated ONE person to do nothing but address reported bots, the economy would be in far better shape.

Ive been farming non stop since early release working towards my legendary, and that goal seems to be moving farther, and farther away as the economy gets ransacked by the effects of bots.

Everyone needs to recognize this, and demand anet take a much stronger stance on this major issue.

I could go on, and on about how its effected multiple parts of the economy, and ‘fun’ factor of this game, but you can simply see the effects of botting in the major rise in the cost of gems in just over a month. from 23 silver per 100, to now over 42 silver per 100..

There is only a very very small percentage of players that can keep up with these prices, and its starting to get to the point where it is next to impossible.

Anet, I beg of you, permanently ban bots, and please move the banning of bots to the top of your priority list. If you don’t see botting as a permanent ban worthy offence, and its not something you deal with ASAP you are taking advantage of the situation no different then the bots themselves are.

This would not be the first game, people have left in MASS due to bots..

Obi, I’m curious, could you provide some sort of proof or observations to back up your claims that it is botting that is driving gem prices and other elements of the economy?

I’d like to try to understand where you are coming from.

If you don’t think there is any money to be made on the TP than you clearly aren’t using it right. In ~200 hours playing the TP I’ve made about 2000g. Making money is getting harder but this economy is far from perfect and items haven’t come anywhere near to hitting market equilibrium. The biggest reason why crafted items don’t sell for much of a profit if any is basic supply and demand. The supply and demand have hit perfect equilibrium. That price happens to be lower than the price to craft the goods because these armors can be made through the mystic forge as well (which at a time made armors cheaper than crafting.) Mystic forging armors is not viable anymore because it is no longer profitable. Though it has tanked the price of exotic armors in the process.

Nice work on the 2000g, that’s quite enviable.

Simply knowing that there are bots out there farming, and selling gold is all the proof you need my friend.. Is it not?

In reply to the 2000g earner. Thats great and all, but you do realize you are a part of a very very low percentage of the population that has been able to do that, and I would love to hear how you actually did that without taking advantage of any of the early exploits..

The crafted items have never sold well at any level of the game, crafting is useless.
The people making lots of money on the TP are doing so by trading products, not by playing the game, so the point is valid.

Obi.9365:

Simply knowing that there are bots out there farming, and selling gold is all the proof you need my friend.. Is it not?

No, it isn’t.

While I dislike bots and want ArenaNet to destroy them completely and severely punish anyone who bots that isn’t the issue in question.

What’s in question is whether or not bots make a significant impact on the economy. You postulate that they do, which is reasonable at first blush, but if the economy has hundreds of thousands of people (potentially over 2 million) involved in it do automated processes really make a significant impact or is their impact irrelevant? Basically, are they a drop in the ocean or a drop in a teacup?

How many bots are there?

What are they generating as saleable goods? Are they using the market?

Are the dedicated market bots ‘destroying’ the economy or are they just ‘noise’ in the economy? Do they affect the market the same way as real world ‘bots’ do in stock markets? Do the automated buy / sell processes exaggerate price fluctuations but don’t create them?

That’s what I’m curious about. You’re making claims that they have a significant impact so I’d like to see the underlying proof of that.

Obi.9365:

Simply knowing that there are bots out there farming, and selling gold is all the proof you need my friend.. Is it not?

No, it really isn’t. Knowing there are some bots isn’t at all the same as knowing they are having a significant impact on the economy.

well ironically, the bots will eventually have greater control of the market – the more players leave. It’s a numbers game. The more players leave and don’t’ come back, the larger the ratio between bots and players get (only a Example: 1 bot : 20 players to 1 bot : 5 players). Eventually you’ll get to a point where bots will be able to manipulate the market. Are they doing it now? I would say in limited areas they are but not the entire TP.

Right, bots have no effect on the economy, just like printing money has none on real world currency. Sorry, you guys must be botters to even question it.

Obi, you are absolutely correct, bots are enough to make me quit.

I hear ya Bunks. I’ve been arguing with some of these guys on this s**t for days now. I’m starting to think most of them are botters myself. To hell with it, I’m going enjoy what I can of the game while it lasts. These forums aren’t going to solve anything.

Here’s one example of what ONE type of bot, and what ONE person can do to the economy, with only ONE resource being used..

One person buys every single exotic great sword on the BLT, and repost for twice the cost. Your telling me someone that didn’t make use of a bot, or there services is able to do this? I highly doubt it. Now that is just ONE person.. Lets think about that for a sec.. If ONE person can do that to one type of item on the BLT, just imagine how far it can go when you times that by a thousand, and a thousand different resources. What happens when a guy with more money to spend on gold, buys that guys greatswords, and sells them for twice as much again..

Do we really need to turn this into more of a debate? I think its far simpler then your making it out to be.

I just gave you one example, using one type of bot resource(purchasing gold), and using it to by ONE type of item.

It goes FAR FAR beyond this.

Perhaps do some reading up on GW2 bots. Farm bots, BLT bots, etc, and then if you still do not understand what only a few bots can do to a cross server BLT, Ill go into greater detail.

Obi.9365:

One person buys every single exotic great sword on the BLT, and repost for twice the cost.

I’m sure this isn’t what you meant to say, but it’s amusing nonetheless.

It happend just the other day, to one type of greatsword, and this happens with all sorts of items on the AH every minute of everyday, and it is only going to get worse.

Obi.9365:

Here’s one example of what ONE type of bot, and what ONE person can do to the economy, with only ONE resource being used..

One person buys every single exotic great sword on the BLT, and repost for twice the cost. Your telling me someone that didn’t make use of a bot, or there services is able to do this? I highly doubt it. Now that is just ONE person.. Lets think about that for a sec.. If ONE person can do that to one type of item on the BLT, just imagine how far it can go when you times that by a thousand, and a thousand different resources. What happens when a guy with more money to spend on gold, buys that guys greatswords, and sells them for twice as much again..

Do we really need to turn this into more of a debate? I think its far simpler then your making it out to be.

I just gave you one example, using one type of bot resource(purchasing gold), and using it to by ONE type of item.

It goes FAR FAR beyond this.

Perhaps do some reading up on GW2 bots. Farm bots, BLT bots, etc, and then if you still do not understand what only a few bots can do to a cross server BLT, Ill go into greater detail.

You’re so naive that you think that one person has enough money to keep buying all the swords (coz ppl will put new ones in meantime, AH is worldwide)?

How many “Dawn” greatswords are on the AH right now? How much did they cost last week, how much do they cost this week. If the economy was healthy, and bot free, stuff would be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Generally speaking for the most part.

Keep in mind im breaking this down to make understanding how it works easy for you to all understand. Frankly arguing with anyone about how Bots have a negative effect on the economy is pretty kittenin stupid to begin with..

Yes, im so naive..

The issue isn’t that the legendary precursors are expensive now, it’s that they were way too cheap before. Some people were fortunate enough to take advantage of that fact. Yes, some of them may have been exploiters or botters, but the price was bound to go up with or without them.

If I had been smart enough to know they were priced way too low before, I’d have bought two or three of them myself.

1st – Dawn – it’s 1 Greatsword, not all exotic greatsword. 2nd – it’s not bots who pick up the price of that item. 3rd- I know ppl (myself included) who will pay even 500g for it, cause imo that’s what this item is worth.

So yes – you’re so naive:)

I agree that bots have negative impact on economy – but not to such an extend you think.

Obi.9365:

How many “Dawn” greatswords are on the AH right now? How much did they cost last week, how much do they cost this week. If the economy was healthy, and bot free, stuff would be getting cheaper, not more expensive. Generally speaking for the most part.

Keep in mind im breaking this down to make understanding how it works easy for you to all understand. Frankly arguing with anyone about how Bots have a negative effect on the economy is pretty kittenin stupid to begin with..

Yes, im so naive..

Because the price will always go up on high end items as gold becomes more available? Its much easier to make gold at 80 then it is at level 20, and as people continue to hit max level and buy out their exotics the price of the highest end items will continue to increase as demand rises and disposable gold rises. The only reason that exotics and such remain low is that the mats required are inexpensive and the supply out weighs the demand.

I only wish I had purchased my legendary prereq early on when they were affordable (only double to triple cost of the same exotics) but I didn’t really have the cash and I didn’t know which one I wanted.

So let’s look at a snapshot of some low end crafting items in the AH and see if we can spot the bots and how they affect the economy. These were the top 5 sellers in each category I sampled:

Units Available

Copper Ore
137,182
305,016
101,764
127,708
153,953

Bone Chip
4422
3469
1292
2501
5373

Vial of Weak Blood
3758
18915
18863
2670
2304

Now – who here has farmed even half this amount? As mentioned before I have nearly 600 hours played so far and my seven characters are being leveled together one at a time. I think on Copper Ore I may have sold 2000 units, maybe even 3000 but 100,000??!! Same goes with Bone Chips and Vials of Weak Blood. Since these are used to make Vital and Strong items respectively they are some of the most demanded.

Raise your hand if you’ve farmed 1000 bone chips or Vials of Weak Blood…

Edit: I would just like to note that as more people level up this same thing is happening to higher end crafting items. Bots are moving from zone to zone increasing in level as demand increases. The numbers on the high end crafting items are beginning to reflect that as well. By way of example…

Ancient Bone
6213
1283
5046
271
1559

Yes, guys, I get that lots of bots could have significant effects on the economy. What Obi has yet to demonstrate is that the current number of bots is sufficient for doing this. Just like I know printing currency has an effect on the real economy, but merely showing that there are some counterfeiters isn’t the same as showing they are actually manipulating the economy in any nationally noticeable way.

Come up with all the individual examples you want, no individual example is proof that bots are ruining the economy. Nor are individual item prices, since the economy as a whole and its health involve more than just a handful of really high-end items.

If someone prints counterfeit money and buys a lot of Ferraris with it and their price doubles or triples, is that really a sign that the auto industry is being “controlled by” counterfeiters?

Rastamon.6954:

So let’s look at a snapshot of some low end crafting items in the AH and see if we can spot the bots and how they affect the economy. These were the top 5 sellers in each category I sampled

How exactly can you be sure that those are items listed by one seller?

Hint: they’re not. That’s the total number of items available at each price point. With a couple million people playing the game, each could list a single piece of copper ore to give those numbers. At least some of the other people have pointed to actual evidence of actual bots, based on what the toons themselves are doing. Just looking at the number of items available at a given price tells you exactly nothing about the economic effects of bots in the game.

More importantly, even if they were listed by one seller, it could easily be a trader who bought them in order to resell them.