Guild Wars 2

Little worried now… Always looking for event bargains(selling the dragon coffers early when they were 10-13s when event went live knowing they’d go down) and thought this was another new thing. Didn’t ring any bells immediately after first and only attempt (4 or 5 forges when they were 1.8g), then kinda made no sense after checking pet price history, then realised it was Wintersday all over again, but worse.

Pulled all my orders and really worried now. Made a big loss on it so hopefully I don’t get in any trouble from this. Should’ve followed the saying “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is” and stick to normal trading

To those who did it way more times, they should get the appropriate justice though.

I discovered this fairly early on after seeing that my prized jack-a-lop’s value had fell by half, but I didn’t have the money to do more than 4 or 5 forges when the new minis were still above 2.5g each. I did think it was odd, so I sent in a bug report and messaged an Anet employee who happened to be in Lion’s Arch. He commented that he found the mini’s behavior in the forge strange, and that it might possibly be a bug, but that he would not consider it an exploit.

Closing this loophole in the forge only made the people who abused it more gold.

Anet screwed the pooch on this one… Big time.

People who tooled out dozens of these things and held onto them (which any smart marketmaker would do) now have a stockpile of pets that are once again worth an obscenely overpriced value that they can trickle their stock into the market for repeatedly.

Genius.

nglcpyro.4906:

Little worried now… Always looking for event bargains(selling the dragon coffers early when they were 10-13s when event went live knowing they’d go down) and thought this was another new thing. Didn’t ring any bells immediately after first and only attempt (4 or 5 forges when they were 1.8g), then kinda made no sense after checking pet price history, then realised it was Wintersday all over again, but worse.

Pulled all my orders and really worried now. Made a big loss on it so hopefully I don’t get in any trouble from this. Should’ve followed the saying “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is” and stick to normal trading

To those who did it way more times, they should get the appropriate justice though.

In past experience, Anet has found a way to make the punishment fit the crime. I think if you used the exploit once by accident, then you won’t get anything more than a slap on the wrist. The people who used it 10 or more times and stockpiled/sold 1000g+ worth of minis will probably be banned or suspended and have their profits removed.

Yeah, when I saw people in map and guild chat asking why mini pets were plummeting, I did this once to confirm my suspicions (and warn guildies). Zero worries about a ban over this. Those who abused heavily are the only ones who need worry, if the past is any indication.

@ThePedroKid, that depends on whether bans are issued. The goldskull exploit made people tons of cash and they got away with it, and I personally believe this still has an impact on the market due to the large chunks of starter gold some were able to walk away with. The snowflake abusers, though, were a very different story.

This hurts my heart seeing how many of you thought Exotic mini’s were going to tank forever and how you guys didn’t understand it.

Do they teach economics correctly anymore? You also have the people who undercut to blame for the drop in price. Its like they learned economics in Russia or something. “Lets undercut and lose out on all the profit!”

mehyaM.3042:

This hurts my heart seeing how many of you thought Exotic mini’s were going to tank forever and how you guys didn’t understand it.

Do they teach economics correctly anymore? You also have the people who undercut to blame for the drop in price. Its like they learned economics in Russia or something. “Lets undercut and lose out on all the profit!”

For someone who is an expert economist, maybe you can figure out what happens to price on a good when it goes from a few dozen items generated per day to hundreds (thousands?) in a few hours.

Or to put it more simply – if it takes 24g to make an exotic mini, as others have pointed out, you aren’t going to maintain a much higher price for long.

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

For someone who is an expert economist, maybe you can figure out what happens to price on a good when it goes from a few dozen items generated per day to hundreds (thousands?) in a few hours.

Or to put it more simply – if it takes 24g to make an exotic mini, as others have pointed out, you aren’t going to maintain a much higher price for long.

Price drops of course, due to an increase of supply. Simple supply and demand. Did i know how they were getting increase supply right off the bat when i saw it? I had ideas. Someone was forging one of the minis. It was easy as that.

The prices for the exotics didn’t tank for long. They are basically back up to their original or at least close to it. The price will level out again once people buy them up and make a profit.

The reason the prices have gone back up is because people bought out all the low priced minis and are stockpiling them. They will slowly introduce them back into the market. That’s the smart way to do it, because it will maintain a strong price of their investment.

However, the damage due to this exploit has already been done. The supply for these exotic minis was extremely low in the past, which was reflected by their prices. Right now, the people who control the mini market are holding on to hundreds of them instead of a few.

Someone mentioned 5000g+ profit doing this “exploit” however that’s unlikely, the underlying market is too slow moving to warrant such a remark. The cost per pet is due to its rarity not the huge demand (notice I say huge) as such I would suspect he got round 500-1000g tops for (and ofcourse if multiple people did the same thing the price dropped so fast I doubt they even got that).

edit: Yes I agree with the previous post, the ones who did this and were smart enough to keep the pets will probably earn a nice profit but it will take time before all the pets are sold

It should have been obvious that it is unintended. An event mini forged into a normal mini is unprecedented. When i was read about it, i immediately think that it is bug. A lot of people probably do too but since Anet stance is that doing an exploit a few times will not be punished, everyone is safe to try a couple of times (some more than others) to test their luck. Multiple it by the tons of players in LA and we got the mini pet crash of 12june.

There is nothing Anet can do now. Just consider it that some people got a windfall and some people got their minis for cheaps. So the lesson is, if you want something that is not limited time, try waiting for Anet to mess up.

Kuzzi.2198:

This must have been a mistake. It completely destroyed the appeal of Minis.

Heaven forbid other people might have the same mini? O,o

1) As a player, I don’t really see it as my job to divine what is intentional market manipulation on the part of the developers vs. unintentional screw-ups. There’s been a number of introduction of items/mechanics in game that have dramatically and permanently affected prices of goods and were viewed as a “feature”. If you didn’t act fast when those changes happened you lost out on major potential profit. I would argue that much of what gives the market “life” is speculation on what may or may not become instantly more or less valuable in the future due to Anet market manipulation. It could easily be misunderstood that Anet wanted to drop exo mini prices for whatever reason, or that the new rare mini was being undervalued on the market by players who weren’t aware of their drop rate.

2) Forging rare minis into exo minis has always been a game mechanic. This wasn’t a new or obviously unintended game mechanic. This mechanic has ALWAYS existed and is essentially the only way to obtain exotic minis, including the new colossus mini that I and, I’m sure others, wanted.

Anet has intentionally manipulated the market in the past via drop rates, game mechanic changes, etc, including c. dust/ectos, mean ecto amount from salvage, drope rate of mats (butter, vanilla, chocolate, T6 mats, etc), among others. Some of these changes have come with announcements, some have been “stealthy”. The ultimate point is that, for serious traders who have studied the market, the ability to determine, with practically no information, whether a change is intentional or not is sometimes impossible (and, I would argue, not our responsibility) until it is explicitly stated, if ever that may be.

The real culprit here isn’t the people who made money off of this. Some people thought it was intentional, others did not. The real issue is no one had any idea what the kitten was going on at the time with regards to what was intentional and what was not. I’m sure Anet tried to make sure something like this didn’t happen, but coding errors and/or mis-interpretations of what would happen in the market do happen at times.

On a slightly different note, is it even clear what the actual issue is? Was it that the drop rate was too high? Or were we not supposed to be able to forge them at all (which would be odd since how else can you get the exo colossus)? Were they only supposed to give the exo colossus when the rares upgraded to exos subsequent to a successful MF try? Were they supposed to be account-bound? I’m still not sure what the specific issue is, except that it relates to the rare holo and the MF.

Don’t be so quick to point blame when in reality there might not be any single entity that is to bear full responsibility of what may have transpired from an unfortunate set of events.

Ryuujin.8236:

Kuzzi.2198:

This must have been a mistake. It completely destroyed the appeal of Minis.

Heaven forbid other people might have the same mini? O,o

Yes. It’s a pretty natural phenomenon.

Take final rest for example – people were willing to pay 2000g for it back when it was thought to be so unique that they would be the only one to wield it. Now that it’s common, people don’t want it even for 4g.

deathTouch.9706:

On a slightly different note, is it even clear what the actual issue is? Was it that the drop rate was too high? Or were we not supposed to be able to forge them at all (which would be odd since how else can you get the exo colossus)? Were they only supposed to give the exo colossus when the rares upgraded to exos subsequent to a successful MF try? Were they supposed to be account-bound? I’m still not sure what the specific issue is, except that it relates to the rare holo and the MF.

As people have pointed out in this thread, the regular minis (original set) are completely separate from event minis. No other event minis out of the 50+ that have been released periodically since launch ever worked in the forge. Without a doubt, the people who abused this exploit knew exactly what they were doing.

Essence Snow.3194:

Rajani Isa.6294:

The person you originally quoted said 20%.

Ahh good call didnt see that…..hmm I must have been going off their math 6g-24g

Yes, because when you throw in 4 sets… you get 4 more yellows for a FREE chance, therefore 20% chance with 24g, not 30g.

aeneq.1760:

Someone mentioned 5000g+ profit doing this “exploit” however that’s unlikely, the underlying market is too slow moving to warrant such a remark. The cost per pet is due to its rarity not the huge demand (notice I say huge) as such I would suspect he got round 500-1000g tops for (and ofcourse if multiple people did the same thing the price dropped so fast I doubt they even got that).

edit: Yes I agree with the previous post, the ones who did this and were smart enough to keep the pets will probably earn a nice profit but it will take time before all the pets are sold

I’m sure someone made 5000g, why? These holo knight pets were so common they stayed cheap on the trading post, allowing cheap MF recipes…. if the holo knight was rare and stayed the same price as other mini’s, it would have not crashed anything and when you have lots of people who had bids in on jack-a-lops for 150g+, you just made around 125g profit per crafted one.

ThePedroKid.2580:

Closing this loophole in the forge only made the people who abused it more gold.

Anet screwed the pooch on this one… Big time.

People who tooled out dozens of these things and held onto them (which any smart marketmaker would do) now have a stockpile of pets that are once again worth an obscenely overpriced value that they can trickle their stock into the market for repeatedly.

Genius.

No, wrong… if you held onto them you were an idiot (at the time) because you only made money selling them to the current bidders. If you held onto them, then you KNEW it was a bug/glitch and you should have been banned for it. If you were buying them during a market crash, you were not bright but obviously paid off in the long haul. Why? Because the forge recipe was disabled… if it wasn’t disabled, every exotic mini would be 10g right now. If I thought this was unintended, I would have held mine, but I figured it was intended due to how common the knight’s were coming into the game so I assumed it was a way to drop all the mini’s down.

One thing to remember is mini’s are based on the gem store price and the gold convertion ratio so they are fairly stable with how much gold is in the economy. there is no in-game method to obtain the 54 original mini’s except the gem store.

Osi.3504:

aeneq.1760:

Someone mentioned 5000g+ profit doing this “exploit” however that’s unlikely, the underlying market is too slow moving to warrant such a remark. The cost per pet is due to its rarity not the huge demand (notice I say huge) as such I would suspect he got round 500-1000g tops for (and ofcourse if multiple people did the same thing the price dropped so fast I doubt they even got that).

edit: Yes I agree with the previous post, the ones who did this and were smart enough to keep the pets will probably earn a nice profit but it will take time before all the pets are sold

I’m sure someone made 5000g, why? These holo knight pets were so common they stayed cheap on the trading post, allowing cheap MF recipes…. if the holo knight was rare and stayed the same price as other mini’s, it would have not crashed anything and when you have lots of people who had bids in on jack-a-lops for 150g+, you just made around 125g profit per crafted one.

Actually total volume of minis never really spiked. Most of the devaluing during that time was in anticipation of a future volume spike had the MF method continued.

Anyone who sold during the period when the minis were de-valued didn’t make a large profit. Most of the profit was made on whatever outstanding buy orders were in for the exo minis, which wasn’t a huge amount, or people who forged them and held onto them. Judging with how the price of all exo minis has corrected pretty well in comparison to the pre-crash prices and volumes, it seems the damage with respect to the market as a whole isn’t all that bad.

However, some people (sounds like yourself perhaps) got royally screwed because they dumped minis in panic thinking this was an intentional thing by Anet, only to find out later it was unintentional. Hence my original post above.

nglcpyro.4906:

Little worried now… Always looking for event bargains(selling the dragon coffers early when they were 10-13s when event went live knowing they’d go down) and thought this was another new thing. Didn’t ring any bells immediately after first and only attempt (4 or 5 forges when they were 1.8g), then kinda made no sense after checking pet price history, then realised it was Wintersday all over again, but worse.

Pulled all my orders and really worried now. Made a big loss on it so hopefully I don’t get in any trouble from this. Should’ve followed the saying “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is” and stick to normal trading

To those who did it way more times, they should get the appropriate justice though.

See, that’s totally different though. Just like Candycorn, Snowflakes (legit drop ones), and even Karka shells. Any time a new item is introduced into the patch that can be farmed quickly, if you sell high early on, you can buy back stock that you need when supply increases and demand decreases. That’s normal economy play of the trading post (made around 5-6 gold flipping Zhaitaffy on the first day). It also requires quite a bit of math work on the buy-low, sell-high method to avoid a lose with the 15% house take.

What’s not normal is taking something that is worth 6 gold and is a somewhat common, although still rare drop, and turning it into a 70-200g ultra-rare (exotic) drop. That’s clearly a mistake. In fact, the notes even notated that these event minis were for forging with each other to make the Colossus. Why would they so easily make some ultra-rare that’s been around since launch?

Closing this loophole in the forge only made the people who abused it more gold.

Anet screwed the pooch on this one… Big time.

People who tooled out dozens of these things and held onto them (which any smart marketmaker would do) now have a stockpile of pets that are once again worth an obscenely overpriced value that they can trickle their stock into the market for repeatedly.

Genius.

They have a way of tracking almost anything and everything. You know the whole Bigbrother scare in the world in how the governments are watching your every move? Well, in this VIRTUAL WORLD, everything you do leaves a digital trace code that can (and will be) tracked just for cases such as this (and even account restore, or other security reasons too).

My point? The guy that made 10+ Jack-o-lopes and has them in his bank right now thinking he’s safe….is not safe. What he did was already caught on the digital camera in the Mystic Forge, recorded, and sent to the development team. They’ll see the frame-by-frame of his guilty act and he’ll be banned because of it.

A few have already hit it, so I’ll mention it again:

“IF IT SEEMS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT USUALLY IS!”

P.S. If other people think that “they shouldn’t be banned for A.Net’s oversight, it’s a A.Net’s fault”, you really need to read up on your User Agreement. It states that you are not to take advantage of any exploit in the system, introduced unintentionally or otherwise.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/
To quote it directly: “You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.”

While the guy who made 10 jack a lopes is probably not safe, the one who buys jackalopes at 60g is safe. As well as the lucky few who rolled a exo on the first couple tries and stopped.

Almdudler.8621:

Zumy.6318:

Who the frikken chicken cares about your pixel gold and trading?

I dont. Anet doesn’t. Just asked my mum, she doesnt neither.

The biggest QQ always comes from those who didnt notice until it wasnt lucrative anymore or didnt have the funds to participate.

You sound a bit like someone who is afraid of getting banned due heavy abuse, if you did so I hope you get!

But I only blame the heavy abusers, if you tried like 2,3 times and figured its obviously not correct to convert rare event for 4 gold into alot bigger profits, okay you did something wrong but at least not abused the kitten out of it.

But the biggest mistake comes from A-net how ins worlds name is anyone overseeing such a trivial thing? I really started questioning their testing team with the last patches. If there is even one…

Nah, I am not scared, as I didnt do anything wrong. I just dont like ppl who cry for bans, because other ppl lesser their already high enough profits.

You hope I get banned? What harm did I do to anyone, spec. you?
How could you wish someone gets banned for a mistake ANet did?
I did not even know anything could(!!!!) be wrong until I came to this boards.

But you guy want me and my account with 2600 hours of playtime, 7k achievementpoints and 5 legendaries and lots of dedication put in banned?

Just out of your jealousy, because either you are a minipet flipper and lost potential money or you are mad that you did not notice the exploit, when it was profitable.

Man, I hope you get your karma back.

Seriously, what is wrong with people these days?

PD: I did around 6 forges and got some rares back that I stored. Arrest me!

I don’t think they would ban over this. It was a normal game mechanic in the first place. I don’t bug abuse and it even fooled me, I logged on around 5pm PST (8 hours or so after the event started), bought a mini pack, got a rare and went to sell it. I found out it was 3 gold.. I said WTF? Common sense told me you could throw in the new dragons and I went to check… sure enough. I assumed they were so common it was creating a “natural collapse”. I didn’t think it was bug abuse at all. I crafted around 30 exotics but I lost 150g in the process. I had back luck getting Jack-a-lops which did yield a little profit.

Just so you know, playing the market IS NOT ILLEGAL. Just because there can or is profit involved doesn’t make it “obvious exploit”. Why? That’s like saying the first people that took advantage of salvaging ecto (20s or less) into t6 dust (instant selling for 1-5 dust per salvage for 30-1.5g) is exploiting… cause he made money off a new game change…. you are wrong.

If I got banned I would be disgusted. It’s not like looking at a vendor and seeing “wow this item is the same quality as the rest and is 100x less karma, or sells for WAY TOO MUCH vendor price and I obviously made 10000g off it”.

You crafted 30 exotics…now thats what you call abuse lol

Osi.3504:

(1) It was a normal game mechanic in the first place.

[…]

(2) I crafted around 30 exotics but I lost 150g in the process. I had back luck getting Jack-a-lops which did yield a little profit.

1. No it’s not. See above posters. If you had this much dough (see 2, below), I seriously doubt that you were unaware of how permanent minis are obtained, and how this system has functioned since launch. But let’s assume that you did not.

2. That means you threw in about 600 risen knights (4 minis x 5 tries to get an exotic x 30 exotics). Now, I know there’s a gray area and all, but there’s a point where that line is crossed. Usually, when people start investing 500g and up, they’ll check out what’s going on, and why it’s going on. You could even say they should check this out before marching ahead (see the “if it’s too good to be true” motto). Anyway, we’ll see where Anet draws the line, if any.

…. There never was a golden Not Acc bound Minipet, was there?( by event)
Wtf dude you made 30 exos and Got 150 loss? Lol!5

Buttercup.5871:

Osi.3504:

(1) It was a normal game mechanic in the first place.

[…]

(2) I crafted around 30 exotics but I lost 150g in the process. I had back luck getting Jack-a-lops which did yield a little profit.

1. No it’s not. See above posters. If you had this much dough (see 2, below), I seriously doubt that you were unaware of how permanent minis are obtained, and how this system has functioned since launch. But let’s assume that you did not.

2. That means you threw in about 600 risen knights (4 minis x 5 tries to get an exotic x 30 exotics). Now, I know there’s a gray area and all, but there’s a point where that line is crossed. Usually, when people start investing 500g and up, they’ll check out what’s going on, and why it’s going on. You could even say they should check this out before marching ahead (see the “if it’s too good to be true” motto). Anyway, we’ll see where Anet draws the line, if any.

Wrong, you didn’t need a lot of money, anyone with 20-50g could have did it all day cause you broke even after selling an exotic back and 8 hours after the event going on and it’s still allowing you to do it, didn’t see anything going on. OBVIOUSLY if I thought it was abuse and un-natural, I would have held onto my exotics, I didn’t as it seemed like normal market changes (crashing from the influx of items). And yes, throwing in 4 items to get another is NORMAL, it’s not like a vendor that allows you to buy a cheap item with karma that sells for 1g back to a vendor.

waldie.6015:

…. There never was a golden Not Acc bound Minipet, was there?( by event)
Wtf dude you made 30 exos and Got 150 loss? Lol!5

Yes, some of the exotics were down to 15-20g… so when it took 24g to make one on average and you had bad luck and it took 10 tries to craft it.. you were down 20g… so basically you had to get an expensive exotic. I obviously had bad luck.

So Osi, let me get this straight. You spent 24 per exotic, and you got 30 exotics. This means you pumped at least 720g into this thing. Whether you did it in batches or in one go is irrelevant to me.

Now, you didn’t think it was weird that one event mini, one – which in the past has always been account bound – was virtually destroying a purely gem-generated market carefully built up by Anet over the last 10 months? Not only that, this was going on while you could still buy the normal 3 mini pack for 300 gems? A pack which renders a green mini at best, or very unusually, one rare mini? This didn’t strike you as odd? The more I read your reasoning, the more difficulty I have with understanding it.

You keep focusing on the “bad luck” part. What if you had had “good luck”? Would that have made a difference? The outcome of your forging is completely irrelevant. What is important is the effect it had on the market, and on the people you duped with it.

Buttercup.5871:

So Osi, let me get this straight. You spent 24 per exotic, and you got 30 exotics. This means you pumped at least 720g into this thing. Whether you did it in batches or in one go is irrelevant to me.

Now, you didn’t think it was weird that one event mini, one – which in the past has always been account bound – was virtually destroying a purely gem-generated market carefully built up by Anet over the last 10 months? Not only that, this was going on while you could still buy the normal 3 mini pack for 300 gems? A pack which renders a green mini at best, or very unusually, one rare mini? This didn’t strike you as odd? The more I read your reasoning, the more difficulty I have with understanding it.

You keep focusing on the “bad luck” part. What if you had had “good luck”? Would that have made a difference? The outcome of your forging is completely irrelevant. What is important is the effect it had on the market, and on the people you duped with it.

Couldn’t of wrote it better myself lol

Buttercup.5871:

So Osi, let me get this straight. You spent 24 per exotic, and you got 30 exotics. This means you pumped at least 720g into this thing. Whether you did it in batches or in one go is irrelevant to me.

Now, you didn’t think it was weird that one event mini, one – which in the past has always been account bound – was virtually destroying a purely gem-generated market carefully built up by Anet over the last 10 months? Not only that, this was going on while you could still buy the normal 3 mini pack for 300 gems? A pack which renders a green mini at best, or very unusually, one rare mini? This didn’t strike you as odd? The more I read your reasoning, the more difficulty I have with understanding it.

You keep focusing on the “bad luck” part. What if you had had “good luck”? Would that have made a difference? The outcome of your forging is completely irrelevant. What is important is the effect it had on the market, and on the people you duped with it.

Are you an idiot? Lots of mini’s in the special section are not account bound. Exotic’s can’t be thrown into the forge as there is nothing better to yield, this is the first “rare” tradable yellow that wasn’t account bound and probably why it was messed up in the first place.

Mini packs and the gem prices are completely irrelevant. If you want to get technical, 1000 gems is 25g, and 3 mini packs that only have a 30% chance to yield a yellow worth 7g would mean they are never worth buying anyways. I do to support the game, I don’t convert gems into gold.

I’m not focusing on ANYTHING abit that I lost 150g over it cause I only said that once and replied back to a guy that questioned it. There was nothing too good to be true, when I started doing it, it was a gamble obviously (150g loss), it’s not like there wasn’t risk involved unless you were one of the first few people that did it and could sell them really expensive. So get off the cry-train already and quit trying to be politically correct when you don’t even have the logic to realize the big picture here other then it shouldn’t have been done. It would have been no different if I was buying the other rare mini’s that came in wayyyy slower for the same price as the dragon and used those instead (and why I didn’t buy those instead) and crafted exotics.

Market changes happen all the time, there was NO DUPING here. You can consider it duping as it was un-intended, but it still took 4 items to craft another. A good market change is dust going from 40s to 15s in 2 hours, I’m sure you will go nag on those and call them “known bug abusers” as well because you lack the logic to realize to most people, nothing was knowingly wrong here. If Holo Knights came into the game way slower and costed 15g each it would have been okay to do it, no one would have crafted it in the first place, and no one would be crying, thus proves people are upset others made a profit.

I don’t deny that I did it, and I don’t have anything to hide because I didn’t realize there was anything wrong after I logged in 8 hours AFTER the patch and seen mini’s crashed(prices crash often) and decided to try to get some jack-a-lops which failed.

I just came on here to share my knowledge on what happened and to have a conversation. Not to be attacked by some nimrod that makes no sense and is trying to convince me I should be banned for Anets 8 hour+ mistake and I should have known throwing 4 rares into the forge and getting exotics was a bad thing. I guess it would have been okay if everyone was losing money in the process right? You may aswell face it that your just mad that some people made money off it. I have learned not to let things like that bother me. People that salvaged ecto for 2 hours probably made a few 100g and got a free legendary that took me 5 months to achieve…. Q_Q

Edit: oh and how much money was pumped into anything seems rather irrelevant, sounds like your politically trying to make something seem really bad, if anything I helped the economy with a giant gold sink from all those listing fees.

Osi … What the hell… Why didnt you stop forging when there was Not enough Profit? either you had to notice That prices will still drop if you didnt think it May be a Bug or if you realized You just had to store them. But your Reaktion is just…. Did You have too much money?

Sorry for Bad gramma. H8 Smartphones

Osi.3504:

Are you an idiot? A lot of special mini’s are not account bound, they are tradable, like karka pets, mini molten flamestorm. Making profit isn’t a bad thing, that’s what your focused on, you are kitten that people were making money off this […]

Osi, try and put one of those minis you referred to in the forge. Go ahead, I dare you. Try and make a bunny with ’m.

As to your other point, the “profit” bit: there were other ways to profit from this, that did not include using and the exploit and furthering the permanent mini market’s destruction. If you had looked into those, you’d have been much happier now. It rather seems that you are angry for not having made a profit, whereas other people did. You seem to focus too much on the “profit” bit, or the “bad luck” bit, and not enough on the “let’s stop and think at what I’m doing” bit.

And please refrain from using insults, it would be a real shame if this thread were to be closed as a result.

Buttercup.5871:

Osi.3504:

Are you an idiot? A lot of special mini’s are not account bound, they are tradable, like karka pets, mini molten flamestorm. Making profit isn’t a bad thing, that’s what your focused on, you are kitten that people were making money off this […]

Osi, try and put one of those minis you referred to in the forge. Go ahead, I dare you. Try and make a bunny with ’m.

As to your other point, the “profit” bit: there were other ways to profit from this, that did not include using and the exploit and furthering the permanent mini market’s destruction. If you had looked into those, you’d have been much happier now. It rather seems that you are angry for not having made a profit, whereas other people did. You seem to focus too much on the “profit” bit, or the “bad luck” bit, and not enough on the “let’s stop and think at what I’m doing” bit.

And please refrain from using insults, it would be a real shame if this thread were to be closed as a result.

No, i’m not mad, because after the recipe was disabled, I bought about 150g of yellows knowing they would go back up since the recipe was disabled and the exotics shot back up within 30 minutes. After this I threw about 11 sets of yellows in (paid 3.5-4.5g gold each) and got 2 jack-a-lops, a mini oakheart, and a mini orrian wraith, I actually profited (using the normal rare mini’s) so don’t assume I’m unhappy. This thread should be closed, it’s old history and has people like you targeting others who even admit what they did unknowingly.

Also last I checked, you can’t use exotics in the forge and you can’t use account bound mini’s, this would be the first rare mini that wasn’t account bound in the game… so if you want to get literal here, not many people would know. Whatever floats ur toot buddy.

@waldie – gambling is fun, like trying to get a precursor (how I got my spark), so I didn’t mind doing it.

Thank you Osi!

We all know, that the biggest complainers always are the jealous anyway.

Like when ppl used alts to get more karkachests after the novemberevent.

I bet Buttercup wants those banned too, because he wasnt able to log in anymore or just did not realize it was possible.

Criminalizing people in the internet seems to be common entertainment to some. As they dont see or kn ow the person they are trying to harm.

Imagine I get banned because of hypocritic ppl like that. I already said it: 2600h played, 7k achievementpoints and 5 legendaries gone just because little Timmy didnt get what he wanted the way he wanted it.

Zumy.6318:

Imagine I get banned because of hypocritic ppl like that.

First off, I don’t think Anet decides who to ban because people on a forum thought they should be.

Second, to me personally, this incident does seem very similar to previous ones that people did get banned for. But that’s not really even the point.

The point is that Anet needs to be a lot more clear on the exploits issue. There is obvious disagreement and confusion among the playerbase about what constitutes “too good to be true.” I am still waiting for the FAQ on exploits they announced would be published “soon” back in August after the karma weapons ordeal. I get it that it is hard to imagine every possible bug that could happen, and I’m not saying we need a comprehensive list.. but more guidelines would really help here!

@osi: and it´s how it has always been… people that don´t mind make more profit than others (some trader are exceptions :p )
eg: ordering 3000 rares for the forge – no pre and the “yolo bangers” from my guild, that buy 100 greatswords directly and get dawn.

@ banning people: then they should have banned people for abusing the moa race etc..
gw2 rarely bans people, and if they do, they don´t ban the worst, so it´s useless.

Small clarification, account-bound and able to be put in the forge are two different things. Green minis (like the holo ones) go just fine. I haven’t checked recently, but I can confirm that I’ve placed Chainsaw and Foostivoo in the forge out of curiosity (did not actually forge). So in theory you could get an exotic there, but you’d be a fool to try. This was the first cheap rare.

On banning, this was similar and worse than the snowflake exploit. One produced a % of mithril, the other crashed the gem-only mini market and produced huge profits. Snowflakes were banned. Godskull exploit was even worse, though, and no bans. I personally suspect, though, that ANet didn’t have forge logging going on at the time or has since changed their policy.

Not commenting on whether I feel people should be banned, as my opinion is moot, because ANet wouldn’t ban people for that. They ban people who they think are big cheats taking advantage of an exploit.

Some people here are ridiculous. Minis are a very niche market that not many people care about. This is the first time I know that event minis is a separate system from store brought mini. I am sure most of the player base doesn’t know this as well.

A random player who open alot of dragon chests can easily have gotten 4 minis and decide to forge them unknowingly, gotten lucky and start trying for more. They would have thought that ArenaNet have decide to decrease the price of mini like what they did with tier 6 dust.

Saying that if something is too good to be true, then it must be an exploit is not good enough. Again, look at the ecto salvageable to dust change. After the patch, lots of ppl salvage ectos to create dust and sell them immediately for huge profits before the price drop. Is this too good to be true? Yes. Is this an exploit? Obviously no.

Just to add, I have no interest in collecting a set of mini and never forge any. Only know about this issue when I read the forums.

If the person know about this mini system and still do it, then that person is indeed exploiting and should be banned. However, there is absolutely no way to determine this and I do not think a blanket ban will be fair. Ultimately its up to arenaNet to decide though.

Osi.3504:

aeneq.1760:

Someone mentioned 5000g+ profit doing this “exploit” however that’s unlikely, the underlying market is too slow moving to warrant such a remark. The cost per pet is due to its rarity not the huge demand (notice I say huge) as such I would suspect he got round 500-1000g tops for (and ofcourse if multiple people did the same thing the price dropped so fast I doubt they even got that).

edit: Yes I agree with the previous post, the ones who did this and were smart enough to keep the pets will probably earn a nice profit but it will take time before all the pets are sold

I’m sure someone made 5000g, why? These holo knight pets were so common they stayed cheap on the trading post, allowing cheap MF recipes…. if the holo knight was rare and stayed the same price as other mini’s, it would have not crashed anything and when you have lots of people who had bids in on jack-a-lops for 150g+, you just made around 125g profit per crafted one.

Well thats assuming that the buy price is high, however if you look at buy data youll see thakittens not that many that is that high and as you sell your minis it plummets (as it did in this case), also with the cost of the mini and the chance someone calculated a base cost of around 25g if I recall correctly.

So the actual profit before the margins gets narrow is lot less than what you expect, the real profit is for the ones who actually hold on to the pet and who will trickle these out over time so yes in the long run I wouldnt be surprised if someone got a few g out of it but not on the initial rush.

Hmmm

Changed the rarity of the Mini Holographic Risen Knight from Rare to Masterwork to reflect the actual value of the item.

Has anyone tried forging it again?

Edit YES they still forge together

I’m assuming so, since the price just skyrocketed. Rather odd, but likely good news for those who exploited. Also good news for those who didn’t know what they were doing.

Very interesting that ANet is aware of the problem and purposefully allowing an outside event mini to inject/affect the normal market. This is very new, and also a bit odd in my opinion. The price of the holo had fallen almost to 10s, whereas most greens are ~80s.

i don´t know why people buy these pets for 70s/each… do the math and you know, you will never make profit without having huge luck…

waldie.6015:

i don´t know why people buy these pets for 70s/each… do the math and you know, you will never make profit without having huge luck…

Good point, so this makes it essentially impossible to affect the other market. Looks like this change was thought through well.

Zumy.6318:

But you guy want me and my account with 2600 hours of playtime, 7k achievementpoints and 5 legendaries and lots of dedication put in banned?

Just out of your jealousy, because either you are a minipet flipper and lost potential money or you are mad that you did not notice the exploit, when it was profitable.

Sorry but for that much experience in the game, you shouldve noticed that as an unintended thing.
Im not jealous neither because I am a flipper nor because I lost potential money. I came here to complain about this issue and the ignorance about some players, why should I feel the need to have used something I complain about? Kind of pathetic and contradictory, but yea there are people like that, but Im not one of them.

Zumy.6318:

PD: I did around 6 forges and got some rares back that I stored. Arrest me!

If you re-read my post, I said if you did heavy abuse which you did not, so in your case I dont care, because you werent abusing the heck out of it. I only care about the people who were rich enough and did to exploit this with not a big risk at losing money because statistically they would gain alot if they keep forging (this especially applies for the first people who discovered this) . And if you know you turn out almost guranteed big profit, then you know something is wrong.

Almdudler.8621:

Sorry but for that much experience in the game, you shouldve noticed that as an unintended thing.
Im not jealous neither because I am a flipper nor because I lost potential money. I came here to complain about this issue and the ignorance about some players, why should I feel the need to have used something I complain about? Kind of pathetic and contradictory, but yea there are people like that, but Im not one of them.

Almdudler.8621:

If you re-read my post, I said if you did heavy abuse which you did not, so in your case I dont care, because you werent abusing the heck out of it. I only care about the people who were rich enough and did to exploit this with not a big risk at losing money because statistically they would gain alot if they keep forging (this especially applies for the first people who discovered this) . And if you know you turn out almost guranteed big profit, then you know something is wrong.

I don’t understand how you guys have the time to both endlessly and mindlessly farm/grind an area and complain on these forums so much.

WIll you kindly log out of the forums and get back to farming CoF? Us TP Barons need to make Huge Evil Profit$$$ and your slacking is pushing up the price of farmed goods. Thanks.

PS. If you need a Jack-a-lop or something to get motivated to go back to work just let me know. I’m practically swimming in them at this point!

Why isn’t there more people complaining about bug abuse and bans? The mini’s were changed green and will now FLOOD the economy causing all green minis to drop, followed by rares, and then exotics… is everyone kitten ed at ANETS new change? Btw anyone who bought 1000’s of those new mini’s at 15-20 silver just doubled their money and got a free precursor… anyone raging about that too?

@deathtouch – all mini’s will most likely experience a huge but slow crash due to the new common green mini that will degrade the green-exotic mini structure. I crafted 2 more Jack-a-lops and an Orrian Wraith for about 120g worth of yellows and sold off, will buy my mini’s back cheaper before the event ends and the mini market stablizes.

Also holding onto jack-a-lops especailly with all these free green mini’s entering the game is a slow investment, the cash would have been better off used elsewhere to overturn a greater profit. I don’t see jack-a-lops going past 200g within the next month, but I could be wrong, we’ll see

considering there was less than 3000 of these on tp.. i doubt that many people made anymore then a 100 or so gold once they were made masterwork. before that happened tho.. yeh there was lots to be made.

i don’t see these mini’s making any difference to cost of rare/exo pets unless it drops low enough to make it worthwhile forging for a rare in the first place. at a cost of 30-35s throwing 4 of these in the forge requires you to succeed in a rare return at least 1 in 3 times to actually see any kind of real return, good luck with that.

Rainzar, it’s not about crafting the yellows for profit, it’s about getting yellows and turning them into exotics at a quick rate, it’s a far cheaper alternative than buying other green mini’s, until those drop in price too, which therefore will multiple the issue and allow a lot of yellows to be crafted. Too many cheap yellows results in a drop in exotic mini’s, i’ve already seen them drop abit in one day and there is obviously way more than just 3000 sitting on the trading post, some players are buying 1000’s of them or still holding 1000’s and they obviously come in the game at a faster rate then being bought (or at least they did).

3000 alone = 187.5 rares = 12 exotics (2-3 of each) which will cause a undercutting effect, plus you are not even counting all the current yellows which have dipped at least 1-1.5g over the last day which alone will have it’s effect on exotics.

Hoard all the new exotics, or good luck with them being bought at a mass rate over the course of the next month if they didn’t reduce the hologram drop rate with the patch.

Right now it’s causing rares to tank slowly (1-1.5g in a day so far), and this event is only a few days in. Unless they made the green mini less common I could see some stabalization, but putting an offer in for 50 and watching them come in was quite fast.

Osi.3504:

Btw anyone who bought 1000’s of those new mini’s at 15-20 silver just doubled their money and got a free precursor… anyone raging about that too?

If anybody (not me) bought that many for that price then they are a smart investor who took a risk, and it paid off. If they just happened to be online at the time the patch came out and bought with that knowledge, then they’re a lucky investor which paid off.

Either way, not sure why we’d be angry about that. I do think ANet should give heads up on most patches, but this was a quick fix so I wouldn’t expect it. Still odd that these are still affecting the market, but I’m going to guess that they couldn’t quickly make the mini work for the colossus but not normal pets.

Still, maybe it should’ve been changed to blue until it could be properly patched.

I really hope they don’t ban anyone for this. If I wasn’t so poor, I’d have done the exact same thing. How was anyone meant to think this was a bug? You’ve always been able to put 4 rares in and possibly get an exotic back. So why would it change now? They made a new rare mini, and so it’s understandable that it would be able to be placed in the forge. When seeing the price, people took the opportunity to make money. Shouldn’t be punished for it. If there was actually some kind of exploit, like, ALWAYS giving back exotics or something dramatic like that, then sure. But there wasn’t. It’s like saying I should be banned for back when I was able to double my money (not just a couple gold, I mean by a kitten load) by changing carnelian lumps into ruby orbs. Or by putting rare runes into the forge and getting exotics back.