Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Q:

The question came up in the “Selling Tax” thread about why you are required to have 5% of the sales price in cash when you’re filling a buy order. I’m really curious and I didn’t want the question to get buried at the end of a long thread that was originally a different topic.

The listing fee makes perfect sense to me when you’re posting a sell order. It keeps people from constantly changing their price and puts downward pressure on the prices because you don’t want to lose your 5% by listing too high.

I don’t understand the reasoning behind requiring it up front when filling buy orders. It has a negative effect of keeping some folks who got a lucky drop of something very valuable from being able to sell it at even close to the going price, and I imagine would keep some items off of the market while the owner tries to raise the capital to sell it.

I can’t think of a reason why the entire 15% shouldn’t just be deducted from the sale proceeds when filling buy orders. It certainly would make filling buy orders a lot more attractive than posting a sell order for really high price items, but is that a bad effect?

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

(edited by Pandemoniac.4739)

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Posted by: JK Arrow.7102

JK Arrow.7102

I would suggest it doesn’t make sense to be charged a listing fee at all when you aren’t listing something and are instead selling to the highest bidder outright.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

You don’t actually fulfill buy orders. When you do fulfill one, what actually happens is you place a sell order at the price of the current buy order, which then automatically eats the listings.

From the user’s point of view, having to the pay the fee doesn’t really make sense. The person placing the buy order should have to pay it. However, sometimes sellers or the middle man do pay the small fees as sort of a bonus/incentive.

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

I can’t think of why you would want to make filling buy orders cheaper than posting a sell order by dropping the listing fee. The 15% fee is there for reasons I completely accept as necessary for a good economy. I’m not against paying the fee, I just don’t understand the economic reason behind requiring the fee for filling a buy order to be paid in cash instead of taken from the proceeds of the transaction.

There are good reasons for making a seller invest some cash up front when the post an item, and for that fee to be proportional to the price they’re asking for their item.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

I just don’t understand the economic reason behind requiring the fee for filling a buy order to be paid in cash instead of taken from the proceeds of the transaction.

There is no reason. It simply works that way because that’s how it was programmed. Fulfilling a buy order is the same function as placing a sell listing. For the fee was taken off at the end, additional measures would have to be taken and it would cause inconsitencies when looking at the data. It’s simply the way it is because it was easier to make it that way.

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

It’s simply the way it is because it was easier to make it that way.

That’s what I assumed, but because there seem to be some negative impacts and a lot of care was taken in the design of other aspects of the market, I wanted to toss the question out there to see if someone could come up with a reason I had overlooked.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Charismatic Harm.9683

Charismatic Harm.9683

Does anyone know what happens right now if there is only one buy order to fill, but 5 people try to fill it?

Does one person sell it to the buyer and the other 4 create sell listings? Or….does one person sell it and the other 4 get an error stating the trade has failed?

Guild: Member of Charter Vanguard [CV]
Logic will never win an argument on the forums…..only a sense of entitlement will.

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Does anyone know what happens right now if there is only one buy order to fill, but 5 people try to fill it?

Does one person sell it to the buyer and the other 4 create sell listings? Or….does one person sell it and the other 4 get an error stating the trade has failed?

I believe, but I am only 98% certain, that the trades fail. What I don’t know is if the listing fee is refunded through the pick up tab, or if it is never taken out because the trade didn’t go through. It depends on how the transaction is rolled back.

It might be interesting to put together a test with some really lightly traded food that is only going for a few coppers.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

You are still using the market as a match maker. The TP may be virtual but it’s simulating how such a business works.

Seller: Hi, I would like to sell this Vermicious Do-Hickey of the Knid.
TP Rep: Yes sir/maam, for how much?
Seller: What’s the going rate?
TP Rep: Well, I have someone looking for 4 of them at 22s each while the lowest price another seller is asking for is 35s.
Seller: Fine, I’ll sell it to the chap willing to pay now at 22s.
TP Rep: Very good sir, that’ll be 1s10c right now so we can start the paperwork.
Seller: But what for? You already have a buyer?
TP Rep: Yes but sir you are using this service to ascertain that information and the same amount of paperwork is done if it’s sold immediately or is sits in the warehouse for 6 months. And the fee is required in advance before we are allowed to get the ball rolling so to speak. If you don’t want to use our service feel free to sell it to the traveling merchant across the street for 1s67c.
Seller: So take it out of money you are about to pay me right now!
TP Rep: Sorry, rules are rules. We can’t start the process without payment from you up front. The accounting department would be most miffed if I didn’t follow strict procedures. Also I’m not the person who will be paying you.
Seller: Who do I see then?
TP Rep: That gentleman wearing the Level 80 Apocalypse Heavy Armor behind the golem proof glass. He’s the one paying you and he is closely watched to make sure he only takes 10% from the price. So his hands are also tied.

Yes I’m being a bit over the top there but it’s true, even though you are selling it “instantly” to a buyer the matchmaking and exchange of goods for gold is still being done. A fee must still be paid up front and that knowledge isn’t hidden from players so it shouldn’t be a surprise.

So simply don’t drive your cash on you too low if you are going to be clearing inventory out in the field. It’s not like some games where other players can loot your body so you are afraid to carry too much of your cash with you. Find someone you can sell your blues or greens to for a little copper. Up grade your carrying capacity so you don’t have find some to off your more worthless stuff to as frequently.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

(edited by Behellagh.1468)

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

You are still using the market as a match maker. The TP may be virtual but it’s simulating how such a business works.

No, I think you’re missing the point. The 15% tax isn’t there because it’s part of a simulation of the real world. The 15% tax is there because it takes gold out of the economy and prevents inflation. I’m trying to figure out what purpose forcing a seller to have a percentage of the item they’re trying to sell in cash serves when filling a buy order.

There aren’t invisible gremlins in the TP expecting payment. The money from the 5% listing fee gets removed from the economy whether it’s taken out of the player’s inventory, or it’s taken out of the proceeds of filling the buy order. So either:

1) It serves no economic purpose, it was done that way because of development contraints.
2) Something bad can happen to the market if you allow sellers to trade without having to use actual gold, and this “bad thing” is worse than folks not being able to sell high value items like precursors because they don’t have 5% of the highest buy order in cash.

I’ve only been thinking about high value items, but what if you could unload a lot of low cost items with no cash? Does that make it easier for the botters?

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Yes, the purpose of the fees, in a virtual world, is to act as a gold sink for the virtual economy.

But the Trading Post is a simulation of how such a institution works in the real world. Just as damage done is a simulation of bashing someone wearing armor with a weapon. Yes in that case it’s a lot more abstracted simulation of effects from causes but still a simulation. Which is my point. A real world trading post is just easier to simulate along with the rational why it would be handled that way.

Here’s my question to you. Why the fuss? When have you ended up with a valuable item to sell but no cash on hand to post it? I could see the extended time in the field and not watching your purse or paranoid about keeping a lot of cash on you but it sounds like it’s something else. I admit I haven’t played the game for long or tried all the content available so I may be missing some obvious case where this is a major problem. I’m curious.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Behellagh’s post, while long and quite funny, answer’s the OP’s question. However, I can understand why he doesn’t get it. So I’ll try to make it a bit more simple.

The Black Lion Trading Company is a tool. You are paying “fees” or “taxes” to use this tool. Be it placing a Sell Order, or filling a Buy Order, you are using the tool, and thus are subject to the fees. It’s like going to a vending machine, and buying a Pepsi or Coke. You gotta pay first, not after you press the button and retrieve your soda.

If you don’t like the fees, Anet doesn’t stop you from trying to sell your goods player-to-player via the mail system. You just need to live with the consequences should your “gentlemen’s agreement” fall apart.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Here’s my question to you. Why the fuss?

shrug I like knowing stuff. Some people collect stamps, I collect knowledge. Someone abbreviated guardian as guar in a forum topic, so now I know a bit about the cluster bean that’s the source of guar gum (which it turns out is a better stabilizer than locust bean gum) and found some tips on abbreviating English words. Yeah, I know I’m weird. I’m mostly harmless though. The Priory is so obviously the Order for me

Every time I dig into some aspect of GW2, I’m impressed with the thoughtfulness behind their design decisions, so I’m far more inclined to think that they had to ship and it was easier to have one logic path for both creating a sell order and filling a buy order than to believe they put the fees in the TP because that’s the way it works in real life.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Behellagh’s post, while long and quite funny, answer’s the OP’s question. However, I can understand why he doesn’t get it. So I’ll try to make it a bit more simple.

Well first, I’m a “she” and second, I understand quite well the purpose of the fees, I think they are a good thing, and I have no trouble paying them. I don’t think you understand my question.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

Behellagh’s post, while long and quite funny, answer’s the OP’s question. However, I can understand why he doesn’t get it. So I’ll try to make it a bit more simple.

Well first, I’m a “she” and second, I understand quite well the purpose of the fees, I think they are a good thing, and I have no trouble paying them. I don’t think you understand my question.

See the 2nd paragraph in my previous post.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

As I’ve come to realize from the other thread on the fees/taxes that the problem deals with being the recipient of a fortuitous drop of a precursor weapon, or other very marketable and expensive item, that you don’t want yourself but to simply “go for the gold” so to speak. I thought it was some kind of scam to allow a market trader to simply use all their capital instead of maintaining a reserve, until I thought a bit on it and realize that was utterly wrong.

The problem is when you can sell a drop for 600g and not having 30g to use the TP to sell it to someone with a 600g offer already on the table. What’s interesting is this could also dovetail into the thread about loans.

What we need here is some kind of “payday” loan at the TP, administrated by the TP and only used for the 5% bid fee. If a player does not have the cash to pay said bid fee they would be given an option, only if they choose a ready buyer, to have the bid fee taken at transaction time plus an additional 1%. So you will end up having 16% taken in the end.

It’s an additional gold sink to fight inflation of the money supply. A seller with a spot of luck but low on cash can sell that expensive item and still end up with quite the windfall. And since it’ll only work on an immediate sale to someone with an existing bid on it there isn’t the problem with canceling the sale and making sure the seller isn’t getting a much longer term loan. That might actually be a great addition to the TP.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

As I’ve come to realize from the other thread on the fees/taxes that the problem deals with being the recipient of a fortuitous drop of a precursor weapon, or other very marketable and expensive item, that you don’t want yourself but to simply “go for the gold” so to speak. I thought it was some kind of scam to allow a market trader to simply use all their capital instead of maintaining a reserve, until I thought a bit on it and realize that was utterly wrong.

The problem is when you can sell a drop for 600g and not having 30g to use the TP to sell it to someone with a 600g offer already on the table. What’s interesting is this could also dovetail into the thread about loans.

What we need here is some kind of “payday” loan at the TP, administrated by the TP and only used for the 5% bid fee. If a player does not have the cash to pay said bid fee they would be given an option, only if they choose a ready buyer, to have the bid fee taken at transaction time plus an additional 1%. So you will end up having 16% taken in the end.

It’s an additional gold sink to fight inflation of the money supply. A seller with a spot of luck but low on cash can sell that expensive item and still end up with quite the windfall. And since it’ll only work on an immediate sale to someone with an existing bid on it there isn’t the problem with canceling the sale and making sure the seller isn’t getting a much longer term loan. That might actually be a great addition to the TP.

I’d go one step further. If a player can’t afford the fee, that same player should be paying a much higher rate than people who can afford it. You could call it a “penalty” or sorts. Maybe an additional 10% deduction from the final sale price on top of the TP’s fee schedule (25% total). 1% seems a bit too low.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

I don’t think you understand my question.

See the 2nd paragraph in my previous post.

Yes, the one where you demonstrate that I didn’t do a good job of explaining the question I was trying to ask.

The Black Lion Trading Company is a tool. You are paying “fees” or “taxes” to use this tool. Be it placing a Sell Order, or filling a Buy Order, you are using the tool, and thus are subject to the fees. It’s like going to a vending machine, and buying a Pepsi or Coke. You gotta pay first, not after you press the button and retrieve your soda.

Granted the original question wasn’t as clear as it could have been, I clarified it later as

I just don’t understand the economic reason behind requiring the fee for filling a buy order to be paid in cash instead of taken from the proceeds of the transaction.

Basically, what you’re saying is “You have to pay the fee up front both when you’re filling buy orders and posting sell orders, because that’s how it works.” I know how it works, I’m trying to figure out why it would be designed that way.

The ANet folks don’t seem to do much arbitrarily, so whether it was a decision to leave it that way because it made the code easier, or it was a decision to require folks to have 5% of the value of what they’re selling in cash, I think it’s likely that it was an intentional decision.

Regardless, we’re all just guessing and I’ve realized that it’s unlikely at this point that anyone will improve on the “it was easier to code that way” guess. I was hoping that forcing sellers to have gold to make a sale would have some intended market impact. I have a niggling feeling that there’s something there, I’ll have to let it stew for a while.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Well 1% is 20% of 5%, it’s not too oppressive yet relatively large. This additional fee really shouldn’t be thought of as a “penalty”. Why penalize someone just because he got a real expensive item dropped on him that they can’t afford to sell it to an immediate buyer who is offering a big chunk of cash. The would be seller is already “losing” money by not selling it for as much as he could get for it. I think that fact is penalty enough.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Olba.5376

Olba.5376

Regardless, we’re all just guessing and I’ve realized that it’s unlikely at this point that anyone will improve on the “it was easier to code that way” guess. I was hoping that forcing sellers to have gold to make a sale would have some intended market impact. I have a niggling feeling that there’s something there, I’ll have to let it stew for a while.

Well, one thing that comes to mind is that it lowers the early prices of rare stuff, as people didn’t have that much gold.

It’s perfectly feasible that someone found a precursor on the first day the game was released. With the listing fee, they’re restricted in the price that they can put it up on the TP, rather than asking 600 gold for it.

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Basically, what you’re saying is “You have to pay the fee up front both when you’re filling buy orders and posting sell orders, because that’s how it works.” I know how it works, I’m trying to figure out why it would be designed that way.

The ANet folks don’t seem to do much arbitrarily, so whether it was a decision to leave it that way because it made the code easier, or it was a decision to require folks to have 5% of the value of what they’re selling in cash, I think it’s likely that it was an intentional decision.

Regardless, we’re all just guessing and I’ve realized that it’s unlikely at this point that anyone will improve on the “it was easier to code that way” guess. I was hoping that forcing sellers to have gold to make a sale would have some intended market impact. I have a niggling feeling that there’s something there, I’ll have to let it stew for a while.

Why did they do it? Anyone sell items on eBay? There it’s called an insertion fee, also paid up front and non-refundable, usually based on opening bid or reserve amount. And since net savvy individuals have been using eBay since the mid 1990s it was THE model of an online marketplace that everyone decided to use but with their own twist.

Why invent from scratch when you have a real world example of what works to draw upon.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Well, one thing that comes to mind is that it lowers the early prices of rare stuff, as people didn’t have that much gold.

That’s a good thought. Now the folks that can afford the rare stuff probably buy up the cheap ones and re-list at a higher price.

Here’s my random thoughts on the impacts of the 5% cash up front requirement :

  • Filling buy orders is not more attractive than posting sale orders because both require the same amount of cash up front.
  • Keeps some supply of very expensive items off of the market (or delays their posting), because folks don’t have the cash to fill the highest buy order, and may not be willing to list at a much lower price they can afford. Can you post for less than the highest buy order? It would make sense to me that you should be able to if you can’t afford the listing fee for the highest buy order, but that kind of assumption is what started this whole thing
  • You can’t “launder” money by giving someone an expensive item to sell in lieu of cash
  • Botters can’t use the TP as a vendor to clear out their inventory by automatically filling the highest buy order because they will eventually need more in listing fees than the money they’re generating while they’re botting.

I’ll probably have some more after I sleep on it a bit.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

Why did they do it? Anyone sell items on eBay? There it’s called an insertion fee, also paid up front and non-refundable, usually based on opening bid or reserve amount. And since net savvy individuals have been using eBay since the mid 1990s it was THE model of an online marketplace that everyone decided to use but with their own twist.

Why invent from scratch when you have a real world example of what works to draw upon.

Because you’re building a virtual world, not simulating the real one.

So, people post orders for things they’d like to buy for a certain price on Ebay, and the folks that want to sell those items for that price have to put up a percentage of the sale price in cash to finish the transaction? Wild. I thought people just auctioned stuff off on eBay. I haven’t looked at eBay for a really long time though.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

Why did they do it? Anyone sell items on eBay? There it’s called an insertion fee, also paid up front and non-refundable, usually based on opening bid or reserve amount. And since net savvy individuals have been using eBay since the mid 1990s it was THE model of an online marketplace that everyone decided to use but with their own twist.

Why invent from scratch when you have a real world example of what works to draw upon.

Because you’re building a virtual world, not simulating the real one.

So, people post orders for things they’d like to buy for a certain price on Ebay, and the folks that want to sell those items for that price have to put up a percentage of the sale price in cash to finish the transaction? Wild. I thought people just auctioned stuff off on eBay. I haven’t looked at eBay for a really long time though.

No, if you have something to sell, setting up an auction costs you money up front, non-refundable PLUS a cut of the final selling price. Even if they item doesn’t sell, lets say you had set a minimum price that wasn’t reached, you don’t get your insertion fee back.

Buyers don’t have a fee.

And why not make a system recognizable? Just because it’s a virtual world doesn’t mean something as simple as a player trading system should be new and unfamiliar to all.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

No, if you have something to sell, setting up an auction costs you money up front, (snip)

And why not make a system recognizable? Just because it’s a virtual world doesn’t mean something as simple as a player trading system should be new and unfamiliar to all.

The TP is not an auction house. It’s a commodities exchange. Placing a buy order is not the same thing as bidding on an auction, and neither filling a buy order nor placing a sell order is the same thing as placing an auction.

While it does make sense to keep things familiar, I don’t think that needing a percentage of a the sale price in cash to sell an item to a buyer for a price you both agree on is something that was put in just because people are used to doing it. When someone sells items, they don’t have to give the sales tax the local government before the sale. The eBay escrow service in its instructions for sellers says

If you agreed to pay all or some of the escrow fee, it’s automatically deducted from the purchase price.

If my question was “Why did ANet make the sky blue in GW2 when they could have picked any color?”, I would accept the answer "because that’s what people are familiar with and ANet wants people to feel like they’re on their home planet and not on some alien world. I don’t accept that a team of knowledgeable folks dedicated to building GW2’s virtual economy decided to charge a fee a certain way because that’s the way eBay does it.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

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Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

It sounds like you won’t be satisfied unless you hear from John Smith. So this is sort of a passive/aggressive way of calling out a dev without calling out a dev.

A quick survey of other MMOs (DDO, WoW, EVE, LotRO) I’ve only saw EVE having a no listing (broker) fee for immediate sale. Otherwise you pay to list, it’s not refundable.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

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Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

No, if you have something to sell, setting up an auction costs you money up front, (snip)

And why not make a system recognizable? Just because it’s a virtual world doesn’t mean something as simple as a player trading system should be new and unfamiliar to all.

The TP is not an auction house. It’s a commodities exchange. Placing a buy order is not the same thing as bidding on an auction, and neither filling a buy order nor placing a sell order is the same thing as placing an auction.

While it does make sense to keep things familiar, I don’t think that needing a percentage of a the sale price in cash to sell an item to a buyer for a price you both agree on is something that was put in just because people are used to doing it. When someone sells items, they don’t have to give the sales tax the local government before the sale. The eBay escrow service in its instructions for sellers says

If you agreed to pay all or some of the escrow fee, it’s automatically deducted from the purchase price.

If my question was “Why did ANet make the sky blue in GW2 when they could have picked any color?”, I would accept the answer "because that’s what people are familiar with and ANet wants people to feel like they’re on their home planet and not on some alien world. I don’t accept that a team of knowledgeable folks dedicated to building GW2’s virtual economy decided to charge a fee a certain way because that’s the way eBay does it.

You still don’t understand. Take a step back and ask yourself “How is this transaction being completed?” Answer – Through the Trading Post.

This isn’t just a matter of “you pay because that’s how it works” or “because people are familiar with Ebay”. You are using a tool that’s acting as a 3rd party to connect you with another player. If you have something to sell, the TP finds you a buyer. If there’s something you want to buy, the TP finds you the goods and seller. And if you want to use this tool to complete the transaction, there’s a fee.

Just like going to the supermarket to buy milk. The market is the “tool” which brings together you (the consumer) with the milk (supplier). The fee here is the retail price bump. But I can sense you might push back at this example, seeing as how it’s not a true exchange, so let’s look at stock trading. You can’t just go out and purchase shares of Arenanet, you need a 3rd party broker to make that happen. In order to use this 3rd party tool, there’s a fee. Same goes if you want to sell your shares, there’s a fee for that too. You pay up front, via deposited credits in an account or such, or you pay cash before the transaction is complete.

The other “economic” reason for this is that it’s a Goldsink. John Smith, as well as a lot of other excellent players in these forums, has explained this over and over as to why Goldsinks exist.

If you feel the fee isn’t fair, or don’t want to pay any extra %, you can do what we did in GW1. Use a trading forum or all-chat in game. But as I said before, you take the risk of doing trades via the mail system in GW2.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

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Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

This isn’t just a matter of “you pay because that’s how it works” or “because people are familiar with Ebay”. You are using a tool that’s acting as a 3rd party to connect you with another player. If you have something to sell, the TP finds you a buyer. If there’s something you want to buy, the TP finds you the goods and seller. And if you want to use this tool to complete the transaction, there’s a fee.

Argh. I have no problem paying the fee. I think the fee is a good thing, and the same fee should be charged regardless of whether I’m filling a buy order or posting a sale order. When I’m filling a buy order, why do I have to have the fee in cash instead of taking it out of the proceeds of the transaction? Why does it matter if the gold is deleted from the transaction or from my inventory?

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

A quick survey of other MMOs (DDO, WoW, EVE, LotRO) I’ve only saw EVE having a no listing (broker) fee for immediate sale. Otherwise you pay to list, it’s not refundable.

That has nothing to do with my question. I’m not opposed to the fee being charged.

I’d be perfectly happy with a relevant guess from a player. I’m not calling out any dev, I just haven’t lost hope that I can make y’all understand what I’m asking.

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

This isn’t just a matter of “you pay because that’s how it works” or “because people are familiar with Ebay”. You are using a tool that’s acting as a 3rd party to connect you with another player. If you have something to sell, the TP finds you a buyer. If there’s something you want to buy, the TP finds you the goods and seller. And if you want to use this tool to complete the transaction, there’s a fee.

Argh. I have no problem paying the fee. I think the fee is a good thing, and the same fee should be charged regardless of whether I’m filling a buy order or posting a sale order. When I’m filling a buy order, why do I have to have the fee in cash instead of taking it out of the proceeds of the transaction? Why does it matter if the gold is deleted from the transaction or from my inventory?

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Pandemoniac.4739

Pandemoniac.4739

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

That’s not an answer, that’s an example of someone else charging the fee up front. I gave an example of someone taking the fee from the proceeds. It’s done both ways. Why would someone choose to do one over the other in a system where the fee is just there to delete the money, and not to collect the money to use for something else?

Don’t ever think you know what’s right for the other person.
He might start thinking he knows what’s right for you.
—Paul Williams

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Smooth Penguin.5294

Smooth Penguin.5294

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

That’s not an answer, that’s an example of someone else charging the fee up front. I gave an example of someone taking the fee from the proceeds. It’s done both ways. Why would someone choose to do one over the other in a system where the fee is just there to delete the money, and not to collect the money to use for something else?

How is it not an answer? You’re paying up front to use the service, and a percentage of the sale as a fee/tax. It’s only free to window shop.

In GW2, Trading Post plays you!

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

And it’s not because that’s how it’s done in the real world, because I just gave you an example of eBay taking its escrow fee from the transaction proceeds.

Read my post again. Focus in on the example of buying stocks. You’ll have your answer.

That’s not an answer, that’s an example of someone else charging the fee up front. I gave an example of someone taking the fee from the proceeds. It’s done both ways. Why would someone choose to do one over the other in a system where the fee is just there to delete the money, and not to collect the money to use for something else?

From the Selling Tax thread

A tax on the seller serves multiple purposes.

-Money sink
-Avoid players from using TP as storage
-Reduces asset speculation by increasing risk
-Makes large volume trades more risky (reduces leverage)

I’m sure I could think of others but those are the main ones I can think of.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes

Fee required in cash for filling buy orders?

in Black Lion Trading Co

Posted by: Behellagh.1468

Behellagh.1468

I haven’t heard your opinion Pan on my suggestion of a “payday” loan for sellers who don’t have the up front fee but is looking to sell to an existing buyer. Total tax of 16% back end instead of 5% up front, 10% back end. But only possible if selling immediately.

We are heroes. This is what we do!

RIP City of Heroes