How you prevent players from buying gold to goldsellers ?
A: Make gold account bound.
A good way to dampen RMT is to make gold work similar to gems, karma, badges, etc. That is, make gold account bound and usable only in trade through the TP or NPCs. To be honest, I have never given, or received, gold from another player. We often exchange materials or crafted items; especially rare or better items that end up being soul-bound, anyway.
Gold could be prevented for trade between players and not affect my friends or I in the least.
This would literally stomp RMT and thus hurt a lot of the naked ranger botting.
+1 make gold account bound.
There was a very inteligent response posted earlier in another thread which basically describes the problem we are seeing.
Gem to Gold prices are low because there is not enough people spending in game gold on gems… why? the main reason from what i see is there is nothing of real attraction that warrents buying anything from the gem store.
We all know that the best trading happened during the first few hours of Halloween when people purchased large amounts of BLK’s to open Chests.
What we need are items that are purchasable from the gem store that are actually worth investing in over a long term period not just for 2/3 days.
Buffs and Keys just dont cut it for the long term.
The new makeovers will have a similar effect for a few days then once everyone is done we will be back in the same place.
It could be that they could remove certain crafting materials from the table that need to be farmed and have them purchasable with gems only? (just an idea)
I’m not looking to start a flame war as it really shouldnt be the players throwing out fixes to a flawed economy.
If said materials were only for aesthetic craftables such as legendaries, sure.
Gold sellers are only a choice because they are.
They rely in gold sellers because gold sellers exist. If they didn’t exist, they’ll have to play the way it was meant to be played, and a legendary will truly take ‘ages’ as it should.
The currency exchange is not a lottery system, it is exactly what its name says it is.
Even if it were, the answer to your question would be no, because one entails personal/risk reward while the other requires you to account for the damage to this game and gaming in general which will fail an objective cost benefit 100% of the time.
John,
As neblim correctly surmised I am speaking of when you introduce things like your gambling methods to your BLT chests which then sent items onto the market for ridiculous prices. You have then introduced gambling with horrible return rates for the general customer. What I am asking is that when you add gambling for real money into your game do you not think that will encourage players to gamble with gold sellers?
The currency exchange is not a lottery system, it is exactly what its name says it is.
Even if it were, the answer to your question would be no, because one entails personal/risk reward while the other requires you to account for the damage to this game and gaming in general which will fail an objective cost benefit 100% of the time.John,
As neblim correctly surmised I am speaking of when you introduce things like your gambling methods to your BLT chests which then sent items onto the market for ridiculous prices. You have then introduced gambling with horrible return rates for the general customer. What I am asking is that when you add gambling for real money into your game do you not think that will encourage players to gamble with gold sellers?
Another terrible argument! If your saying that RNG is gambling then every mmo in history is gambling.
You can’t pin 3rd party on Anet it doesn’t apply.
You know why those prices for the items in the BLTC cost so much? Your fellow gamers not Anet.
Arena net didt put up GS skin on the TP and list it at 80g ROFL.
I however got the GS skin and sold it for 65g and 2 1h chain swords for 11g apiece so I guess you should blame me for forcing you to go 3rd party and risk identity theft so you can wield a chainsaw. My apologies I had no idea you where so easily persuaded.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
The currency exchange is not a lottery system, it is exactly what its name says it is.
Even if it were, the answer to your question would be no, because one entails personal/risk reward while the other requires you to account for the damage to this game and gaming in general which will fail an objective cost benefit 100% of the time.John,
As neblim correctly surmised I am speaking of when you introduce things like your gambling methods to your BLT chests which then sent items onto the market for ridiculous prices. You have then introduced gambling with horrible return rates for the general customer. What I am asking is that when you add gambling for real money into your game do you not think that will encourage players to gamble with gold sellers?
Another terrible argument! If your saying that RNG is gambling then every mmo in history is gambling.
You can’t pin 3rd party on Anet it doesn’t apply.
You know why those prices for the items in the BLTC cost so much? Your fellow gamers not Anet.
Arena net didt put up GS skin on the TP and list it at 80g ROFL.
I however got the GS skin and sold it for 65g and 2 1h chain swords for 11g apiece so I guess you should blame me for forcing you to go 3rd party and risk identity theft so you can wield a chainsaw. My apologies I had no idea you where so easily persuaded.
Every game has RNG yes…. Do they all have RNG on cash purchases (ie: gambling) that is a very very dark grey area.
They didn’t list it themselves on the TP at a rediculous price, I agree. However they knowingly made the drop rates on the items at a very low level so that it made them rare which in turn made them costly. Supply and Demand at work and they obviously knew it would create high values by keeping it rare. What does that do? Creates in turn demand for gold. What does that in turn do? Makes buying gold from Gold Sellers highly attractive. We are talking about forces on the masses not simply on the individual. I am simply stating when they created a system of a lottery for real money (yes you can buy them with gold but you can also buy them with money which is the way that Anet prefers) this in turn opens up pandora’s box of gambling.
You cannot say that there aren’t a huge amount of people buying gold from gold sellers. If they weren’t then these gold sellers wouldn’t exist. They make money buy selling gold. Why do they sell gold? Because it’s profitable for them to do so.
I am simply stating that they introduced RNG to Real Money purchases. Does that not in fact then have a cause and effect on purchasing gold from gold sellers?
Furthermore to say that a company doesn’t control the pricing of items on the TP is slightly false. Yes they don’t set the pricing but at the same point the control the rarity of an item and that in turn helps create the price of the item. They also create the demand of an item.
Gold Sellers do not occur in a vacuum. The demand for them is based on the price difference between the company and what the gold seller is offering. When you have demand for gold in high amounts (again this can be controlled by the company) it in turn creates a demand for gold which in turn creates a role for the gold seller.
(edited by Drunken Mad King.8193)
Gold sellers will always be around just like piracy will always be around. You can’t model your business around people that do it the dishonest way.
They made the drop rates on the skins low, they then increased the drop rates on the skins with the mad king chests. They didnt however hand them out for free they did give out temporary skins.
I just dont see any scenario that Anet is anyway responsible for how people spend their money out side of GW2. All they can do is make it attractive and if security of purchase isnt attractive to someone I don’t what will be honestly. Anyone that would risk it to go 3rd party would do so regardless of the rate. If Anet right now lowered their rate to meet 3rd party. 3rd party lowers their rate to beat Anet 3rd party buyer would still go for the best deal but it have more risk.
Its like I used the example of supporting your favorite band
If Jimmy likes linkin park but doesn’t have the money to buy Linkin Park’s new album online at iTunes its Jimmy’s on to decide if he wants to wait and save till he has enough or seek out other means to obtain his album. That’s not Linkin Parks fault that Jimmy doesn’t have enough money to buy their album. If Jimmy is impatient Jimmy is going to go download it for free.
Thats example has no gambling in it at all and it applies to the same in game. You have to pay the money to gamble everyone knows that. If you don’t have the money to gamble with that isnt anet’s fault they don’t punch your clock or give you a raise. If you decide to find a better deal for your dollar which comes with high risk again that still isn’t anet’s fault they still don’t punch your clock or give you a raise. When you bring outside source into the game then it becomes Anet’s grounds to do with you what they like if you are caught.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
(edited by oZii.2864)
No that is not the same scenario. Here is the same.
Jimmy likes linkin park. Linkin Park decides to sell CD’s with a chance to have linkin park sign a tshirt, guitar, or some other item with all the band members signature. Jimmy buys bunches of CD’s in hopes of getting said item or then sees those items being offered by people on Linkin Park’s website for super high pricing. Jimmy also sees that he can get the item through craigslist by some person that is offering it at 1/3’rd the cost.
What I am saying is that they created the scenario which creates high demand for both the item and the gold needed to buy the item. Had they put it at a reasonable drop rate for a holiday event then the prices would have been nominal and guess what? The demand for the gold sellers wouldn’t have been there.
If the items were uncommon but not rare the items wouldn’t have had a value so high which in turn would not create a possible demand for gold sellers.
To act like Anet doesn’t feed the beast is ludicrous.
Had they made Legendary precursors also Account bound on receipt it would have again also removed a ton of the need for gold buyers. I know they would have had to adjust the rate but instead what they did was feed the beast.
When you create high demands for gold you in turn create opportunities for gold sellers.
Gold sellers give 500g for 200€, so much better than gem —> Gold conversion rate. Maybe anet should make gems more desireable.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
I am not saying they need to lower the conversion rate or improve the conversion rate of gems to gold and vice versa from gold to gems. What I am saying is that Anet needs to think carefully about it’s actions in a gold purchasing system. I am simply stating that items that they make drop at incredibly rare amounts creates high demand for gold which in turn creates more chances for people to choose Gold Sellers. I am not advocating that they should be around. I am simply bringing to the discussion why they exists and are obviously very successful in this game. The go where the demand is. Demand is obviously high and you can see why.
No that is not the same scenario. Here is the same.
Jimmy likes linkin park. Linkin Park decides to sell CD’s with a chance to have linkin park sign a tshirt, guitar, or some other item with all the band members signature. Jimmy buys bunches of CD’s in hopes of getting said item or then sees those items being offered by people on Linkin Park’s website for super high pricing. Jimmy also sees that he can get the item through craigslist by some person that is offering it at 1/3’rd the cost.
What I am saying is that they created the scenario which creates high demand for both the item and the gold needed to buy the item. Had they put it at a reasonable drop rate for a holiday event then the prices would have been nominal and guess what? The demand for the gold sellers wouldn’t have been there.
If the items were uncommon but not rare the items wouldn’t have had a value so high which in turn would not create a possible demand for gold sellers.
To act like Anet doesn’t feed the beast is ludicrous.
Had they made Legendary precursors also Account bound on receipt it would have again also removed a ton of the need for gold buyers. I know they would have had to adjust the rate but instead what they did was feed the beast.
When you create high demands for gold you in turn create opportunities for gold sellers.
So in your scenario Jimmy knows that their is a “chance” to get a cd or not get a CD. Jimmy decides to go to craigslist to buy the CD at 1/3 the price. Which in turn doesn’t support his Favorite band. Thats not Linkin Parks fault. It’s still Jimmy’s fault if I go to the kentucky Derby and bet on Shoe Shine Charlie I can’t gamble the same amount of money as the billionaire next to me I have to gamble what I have or I could try to rob the billionaire when he is on his way to the bathroom then turn around and gamble that money. Thats not the billionaires fault that I chose to rob him or the venues.
[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}
No that is not the same scenario. Here is the same.
Jimmy likes linkin park. Linkin Park decides to sell CD’s with a chance to have linkin park sign a tshirt, guitar, or some other item with all the band members signature. Jimmy buys bunches of CD’s in hopes of getting said item or then sees those items being offered by people on Linkin Park’s website for super high pricing. Jimmy also sees that he can get the item through craigslist by some person that is offering it at 1/3’rd the cost.
What I am saying is that they created the scenario which creates high demand for both the item and the gold needed to buy the item. Had they put it at a reasonable drop rate for a holiday event then the prices would have been nominal and guess what? The demand for the gold sellers wouldn’t have been there.
If the items were uncommon but not rare the items wouldn’t have had a value so high which in turn would not create a possible demand for gold sellers.
To act like Anet doesn’t feed the beast is ludicrous.
Had they made Legendary precursors also Account bound on receipt it would have again also removed a ton of the need for gold buyers. I know they would have had to adjust the rate but instead what they did was feed the beast.
When you create high demands for gold you in turn create opportunities for gold sellers.
So in your scenario Jimmy knows that their is a “chance” to get a cd or not get a CD. Jimmy decides to go to craigslist to buy the special item at 1/3 the price. Which in turn doesn’t support his Favorite band. Thats not Linkin Parks fault. It’s still Jimmy’s fault if I go to the kentucky Derby and bet on Shoe Shine Charlie I can’t gamble the same amount of money as the billionaire next to me I have to gamble what I have or I could try to rob the billionaire when he is on his way to the bathroom then turn around and gamble that money. Thats not the billionaires fault that I chose to rob him or the venues.
You do realize that no matter what the cost for gems is buying them legitimately, the gold sellers are going to undercut it, because there’d be no reason for people to use them otherwise, right?
As for the keys, they are grossly overpriced, regardless of how you get your gems or gold, in my opinion. Of course, some (most?) people just have a general disregard for odds / expected value, which is generally the whole idea behind running any kind of gambling thing, after all. It’s why so many lottery tickets are sold.
Therefore we proceed to write a sig.
No that is not the same scenario. Here is the same.
Jimmy likes linkin park. Linkin Park decides to sell CD’s with a chance to have linkin park sign a tshirt, guitar, or some other item with all the band members signature. Jimmy buys bunches of CD’s in hopes of getting said item or then sees those items being offered by people on Linkin Park’s website for super high pricing. Jimmy also sees that he can get the item through craigslist by some person that is offering it at 1/3’rd the cost.
What I am saying is that they created the scenario which creates high demand for both the item and the gold needed to buy the item. Had they put it at a reasonable drop rate for a holiday event then the prices would have been nominal and guess what? The demand for the gold sellers wouldn’t have been there.
If the items were uncommon but not rare the items wouldn’t have had a value so high which in turn would not create a possible demand for gold sellers.
To act like Anet doesn’t feed the beast is ludicrous.
Had they made Legendary precursors also Account bound on receipt it would have again also removed a ton of the need for gold buyers. I know they would have had to adjust the rate but instead what they did was feed the beast.
When you create high demands for gold you in turn create opportunities for gold sellers.
One key piece of information left out of your scenario is how the person selling the thing on Craig’s List came into possession of it. I think it’s a bad analogy, regardless. Lack of consideration of that key point just makes it worse.
Therefore we proceed to write a sig.
Short answer is… They don’t.
They just have to scare you all into thinking twice about it.
Short answer is… They don’t.
They just have to scare you all into thinking twice about it.
Of course, regardless of ArenaNet’s policies and one’s moral stances (or lack thereof), people with any brains whatsoever will seriously consider the implications of giving their credit card information to people who make a living off of stealing player accounts…and making fraudulent credit card purchases…
Therefore we proceed to write a sig.
(edited by Signet of Forums.4397)
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
Ignore this as you will, but someone else has already pointed this out and I don’t feel that people paid enough attention to his comments: You will forever, and ever, have gold buying running rampant, so long as you have RIDICULOUSLY priced items, such as the legendary prerequisites, costing 300+ gold. This is the core issue with your economy.
Farming 300+ gold is not realistic for 99.99% of people. If you truly WANT that legendary, you’re going to spend your real life money for it. When you decide this, as most other people already have, you’re going to want to spend as little as possible of that real life money. When A-net is charging three to four times the amount of cash for gold compared to a farmer site, A-net is showing their blatant foolishness in not expecting players to go to the gold sellers. (Oh, and whoever it was screaming “Identity theft” – you obviously know very little about gold selling and how these sites work. There’s tens of thousands of transactions a day on these sites for various games and identity theft is extremely rare. You only hear about it when some idiot gives them account log in credentials. There are, literally, MILLIONS of people buying gold.)
Prerequisite weapons need to be an account bound token/achievment reward based item. Not random lottery drops. /thread
Heehee, I love a good paradox.
Well maybe not the paradox itself but the act of putting it in perspective… definitely.
..also those phone commercials showing a bunch of applefreaks waiting in a huge line like they were trying to get into a once in a lifetime concert, that will just happen again in another 6 months when 1 more marketable feature gets added to the next one. Yeah it’s hyperbole but these first-world problems are begging for it. (meanwhile “Art” predates civilization itself … it’s actually one of our baser instincts/compulsions)
.
As with most things that are currently being neglected in real life … the issue lies in enforcement and societal incentives. And most suggestions that people come up with here will only inconvenience normal players while the cheaters laugh and instantly find loopholes around it. Good luck anyway! If Anet or CCP can’t fix it then no one can.
(edited by ilr.9675)
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
Ahhhh John here is your lack of common sense. So you want this item simply because it is rare? If an item was made with similar sense of aesthetics and quality but was sold at a reasonable price you would no longer desire it? I don’t desire things for status symbols. I desire things for quality. Your statement of “Oh, but would I want one if they were so easy to get?” in your scenario seems to advocate that only a small elite or lucky deserve the nice things in the game. Kudos.
Do you think the holiday items were only desired because they were rare or because they were quality? Does rare pixels need to be high cost when done for a holiday event?
I am not advocating theft nor am I advocating gold sellers. I am here to point out that your company’s actions BOOST the effect of gold sellers.
You haven’t seemed to address what I stated and instead tried to make some cheap shot attack on those that don’t understand the Gold Seller business. I understand that most of it is done by theft and I don’t want them around. Hence I am trying to point out some of the things you seem to care less about. Your actions as a company and how they effect the proliferation of Gold Sellers. Tell me do you not see a correlation or do you prefer to hide behind those smart kitten responses?
Oh and John just keep enjoying your older Koenigsegg don’t worry another one will come out next year and by then I am sure you will be able to afford it and then you can show everyone how awesome you are simply through a status symbol in the best way shallow people do.
(edited by Drunken Mad King.8193)
Ignore this as you will, but someone else has already pointed this out and I don’t feel that people paid enough attention to his comments: You will forever, and ever, have gold buying running rampant, so long as you have RIDICULOUSLY priced items, such as the legendary prerequisites, costing 300+ gold. This is the core issue with your economy.
Wrong.
The price of legendary prereqs is high BECAUSE people buy gold. If no one were buying mass quantities of (illegal) cheap gold, the price of legendaries would drop precipitously.
The sellers are just as guilty as the gold-buyers. The sellers wouldn’t raise their prices so high if no one was buying gold (outside of ANet’s system, that is).
I also disagree on the drop rates. None of the super-rare items are required to be successful at PLAYING — they only exist for ego. And while I like bling as much as the next person, not having a legendary won’t hurt my feelings one little bit.
ANet is not at fault for anything other than assuming people would behave themselves.
Ignore this as you will, but someone else has already pointed this out and I don’t feel that people paid enough attention to his comments: You will forever, and ever, have gold buying running rampant, so long as you have RIDICULOUSLY priced items, such as the legendary prerequisites, costing 300+ gold. This is the core issue with your economy.
Wrong.
The price of legendary prereqs is high BECAUSE people buy gold. If no one were buying mass quantities of (illegal) cheap gold, the price of legendaries would drop precipitously.
The sellers are just as guilty as the gold-buyers. The sellers wouldn’t raise their prices so high if no one was buying gold (outside of ANet’s system, that is).
I also disagree on the drop rates. None of the super-rare items are required to be successful at PLAYING — they only exist for ego. And while I like bling as much as the next person, not having a legendary won’t hurt my feelings one little bit.
ANet is not at fault for anything other than assuming people would behave themselves.
Yeah… no. Sorry. I’m pretty right on.
Take away a reason to buy massive amounts of gold and people stop buying massive amounts of gold. Sure, some people will still buy gold for the little things like consumables/repair bills if they don’t feel like farming it but that is a pittance amount compared to the hundreds that these items are going for.
Oh and edit: Every game developer in the world knows about gold selling. You’re a fool to expect gamers to “behave themselves” if you DON’T PROVIDE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE. (I know, common sense is rare these days.)
(edited by Shadowfist.2708)
Yeah but similarly there is no way for you or me to change the exchange rate between the American Dollar and the New Zealand Dollar. Nevertheless the exchange rate is not completely controlled by either governments. One party can print more money and use other tactics to artificially inflate or deflate the economy, but at the end of the day it is the masses who determine what the exchange rate is.
That’s why I said that ArenaNet can control gem > gold conversion rates to some extent, but it cannot be completely controlled by them. Otherwise there is no need for a semi-free market. The reason you are able to buy gems for gold is not because ArenaNet is giving away free gems for a goldsink service; it’s because there are people who pay real money for gems and convert to gold. The supply is there.
…..
You misapply the real world mechanics of currency exchange to this discussion. World currency is traded with Buy and Sell orders and the comparative value of one currency to another is determined by customer demand. Institutions such as the US Federal Reserve set monetary policy for their country. Those decisions determine the strength of currencies within the world currency marketplace and within the borders of their country. Typically, G8 and first world countries legally oblige institutions such as the US Federal Reserve to publicly disclose all monetary policies, allowing for the open trading of currency Buy and Sell orders.
The BLTP currency exchange floor does not resemble real world currency exchange. Arenanet set the opening exchange value of Tyrian gold to real world currency and all deviation from that valuation is determined by an algorithm translating player gem buying habits. This is closer to a bond market than a currency exchange.
You do bring up a salient point, the number of people exchanging real world currency for Tyrian gold. They are putting such faith in Arenanet.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
What a valid and accurate comparison to your digital items. -sage nod-
Lawl…
The short answer to the original question is.. They can’t stop it completely. They can get rid of the obvious things like most bots and spammers. However, as long as these 3rd party sellers are making money and beating Anet price wise, people are going to buy from them. -shrug-
(edited by Jnaathra.6549)
No that is not the same scenario. Here is the same.
Jimmy likes linkin park. Linkin Park decides to sell CD’s with a chance to have linkin park sign a tshirt, guitar, or some other item with all the band members signature. Jimmy buys bunches of CD’s in hopes of getting said item or then sees those items being offered by people on Linkin Park’s website for super high pricing. Jimmy also sees that he can get the item through craigslist by some person that is offering it at 1/3’rd the cost.
What I am saying is that they created the scenario which creates high demand for both the item and the gold needed to buy the item. Had they put it at a reasonable drop rate for a holiday event then the prices would have been nominal and guess what? The demand for the gold sellers wouldn’t have been there.
If the items were uncommon but not rare the items wouldn’t have had a value so high which in turn would not create a possible demand for gold sellers.
To act like Anet doesn’t feed the beast is ludicrous.
Had they made Legendary precursors also Account bound on receipt it would have again also removed a ton of the need for gold buyers. I know they would have had to adjust the rate but instead what they did was feed the beast.
When you create high demands for gold you in turn create opportunities for gold sellers.
One key piece of information left out of your scenario is how the person selling the thing on Craig’s List came into possession of it. I think it’s a bad analogy, regardless. Lack of consideration of that key point just makes it worse.
You are right not the perfect analogy but it still doesn’t negate the fact that Arenanet’s actions only encourage gold sellers and gold buying.
You do realize that no matter what the cost for gems is buying them legitimately, the gold sellers are going to undercut it, because there’d be no reason for people to use them otherwise, right?
There is a point though at which the goldsellers cannot justify their business model. If Anet undercuts that point, then why would he goldsellers bother?
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
And that argument completely solves the economy issues.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
The short answer to the original question is.. They can’t stop it completely. They can get rid of the obvious things like most bots and spammers. However, as long as these 3rd party sellers are making money and beating Anet price wise, people are going to buy from them. -shrug-
ANet can, however, start perma-banning those who buy gold. As long as the buyers face no risk, they will continue to buy gold on the black market.
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
Your metaphor is flippant and misleading. At best, the statement would be appropriate from someone working for a company that did not sell its game’s currency. The moment Arenanet decided to sell Tyrian gold, a player’s decision to spend cash on Koenigsegg became a legitimate decision, even an appropriate decision. The only discussion now is how to arrive at a fare cash value for Koenigsegg.
Is Arenet’s official justification of the cash value of said Koenigsegg that Arenanet’s gold doesn’t kill kittens?
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
What’s with all the attacks on John’s statement?
He’s not wrong, if you buy gold you’re supporting people that steal from others to get the money they sell.
If you exchange gems you’re buying from people who have willingly put their money into the exchange system in return for your gems.
The short answer to the original question is.. They can’t stop it completely. They can get rid of the obvious things like most bots and spammers. However, as long as these 3rd party sellers are making money and beating Anet price wise, people are going to buy from them. -shrug-
ANet can, however, start perma-banning those who buy gold. As long as the buyers face no risk, they will continue to buy gold on the black market.
Bots, spammers and sellers are far easier to pinpoint. Push to hardly on a witch hunt for buyers and a lot of innocent people get swept up. It is harder to detect… Not long ago there were a few people that got flagged and temp banned from GW2 cause they were pushing lots of gold back and forth.. Only to find out it was for an achievement.
Ignore this as you will, but someone else has already pointed this out and I don’t feel that people paid enough attention to his comments: You will forever, and ever, have gold buying running rampant, so long as you have RIDICULOUSLY priced items, such as the legendary prerequisites, costing 300+ gold. This is the core issue with your economy.
So you blame arena net for the prices players set?
fare cash value
We talking bus, train, plane, taxi, ferry, or ocean liner fare?
Ignore this as you will, but someone else has already pointed this out and I don’t feel that people paid enough attention to his comments: You will forever, and ever, have gold buying running rampant, so long as you have RIDICULOUSLY priced items, such as the legendary prerequisites, costing 300+ gold. This is the core issue with your economy.
So you blame arena net for the prices players set?
I don’t blame them completely but I do also state they are a contributing aspect to the pricing.
You people are all rather messed up.
The people who would buy Gems with cash are saying Gems aren’t worth enough. The people who want Gems with gold are saying they’re worth too much.
The people who are poor are complaining that freaking Legendaries are too expensive. Hello, those items were purposely made to be something not many would have.
Complaints about RNG in regards to Mystic Forge and BLCs? I know games that sell the equivalent of our Exotics in their cash shop in a box that has much worse odds than either the Mystic Forge or the BLCs. The same game also has the equivalent of our Legendaries in their cash shop, up for a price that is about four times as much as what you would pay here. And the kicker? The gear is the cheap part, it’s the gems and refinement on the gear that costs twice as much. And how many people have that stuff that costs like 10 times a Legendary on GW2? Well probably a 100 people per server, so a total of somewhere around 1,000. And some people have those gear sets on multiple characters too.
MAKE GOLD ACCOUNT BOUND or put a limit to how much gold you can send to someone…like maybe 2-5 gold max for a 24 hour period….THAT would put a serious monkey wrench into gold sellers plans while not completely alienating players….Oh you need to borrow 10 gold? No problem heres 5 gold but we will have to wait until tommorrow to transfer the rest. In turn this would mean people who buy large incriments of gold from Gold sellers will have to wait a good while to receive the gold, and Anet would be able to tag the unusual transaction log through the mail…..so Bobby has been getting 5 gold from this same person every day for the past 1-2 weeks….yeah something fishy there.
fare cash value
We talking bus, train, plane, taxi, ferry, or ocean liner fare?
I use balloons when I have hot air and zepellins when I have hydrogen, but to your point valuing Tyrian gold according to the cost of connecting here and there would indeed be as effective as challenging an arguement based on spellingk.
The discussion of Arenanet’s role as a RMT of Tyrian gold will continue because their actions as such will decide the company’s long term reputation. The discussion will be difficult and sometime panicked, but important and long-lived.
The best solution to the organized crime element of RMT is to allow players to set Buy and Sell orders. Yes you will need more Tyrian gold to buy gems, the black market more closely reflects the true market value of Tyrian gold than Arenanet. But trust me we will see much less organized crime. Make Tyria a fun enough place to adventure and Her? Heroes will consider a month’s worth of casual play the worthwhile cost of a character slot upgrade. Organized crime undercutting a dedicated player base is a myth.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
(edited by Psientist.6437)
Okay, the price of gold -> gems is very similar to the price of gems -> gold (there’s a trading fee taken out, but they change at the same rate).
Pick one:
1. gold -> gems is expensive so one gold gives very few gems.
2. gold -> gems is cheap so 100 gems gives a lot of gold.Obviously, it can’t be profitable to buy 100 gems, trade it for gold, and then trade it for more gems than you started with, all at once, because that would be an exploit and people would quickly get infinite gold, which would destroy the economy and basically destroy the value of the currency.
So which do you want?
Do you want 1 gold to give very few gems, so it’s more expensive for players who don’t use real money to buy things from the black lion shop?
Or do you want 1 gold to give a lot of gems, so it’s more expensive for players to pay ANET real money to get gems that they can then trade for gold to buy things from the TP?
You can not have both.
i obviously would choose 2nd option, i would buy gems only to change for gold.
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
I’m sorry Mr. Smith, but that’s a rather gaping fault in analogy, shame on you. It’s:
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one by buying it from the official manufacturer, because it’s tyranically expensive. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will have someone else manufacture it for a fraction of the price and sell it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone else manufacture it, taking profit away from the rightful inventor/patent holder. Oh, and I would STILL want one if they were easy to get, because that wouldn’t detract from how AWESOME it looks.
Kindly consider being less of a totalitarian towards your playerbase, and maybe your customers will actually use credit cards in your gem store more often. Thank you.
(edited by Slic.2406)
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
I keep seeing John making the assumption that “gold sellers = thieves”, and it’s offending my intelligence every time. It’s no more valid than “person who sells things = thieves”.
Clearly some gold sellers are selling gold stolen from player accounts. Clearly some are not, and are selling gold from combinations of botting and efficient farming. The first class are engaging in criminal activity. The second are merely doing something Anet wishes they wouldn’t.
You can make the argument that it’s hard to buy from a gold seller without accidentally dealing with one of the thieves. You can make the argument that buying from gold sellers creates a market that encourages the thieves (but I don’t think that’s a particularly valid argument).
But please stop saying that all gold sellers are inherently thieves. You’re smarter than that, John, and I’d appreciate if you’d assume that we are too.
I really want a new Koenigsegg. At the moment I cannot get one. I am an upstanding citizen and will not steal a Koenigsegg. I will hire someone to steal one from someone else and give it to me. If they weren’t so hard to get I wouldn’t NEED to have someone steal one. Oh, but would I want one if they were easy to get?
I keep seeing John making the assumption that “gold sellers = thieves”, and it’s offending my intelligence every time. It’s no more valid than “person who sells things = thieves”.
Clearly some gold sellers are selling gold stolen from player accounts. Clearly some are not, and are selling gold from combinations of botting and efficient farming. The first class are engaging in criminal activity. The second are merely doing something Anet wishes they wouldn’t.
You can make the argument that it’s hard to buy from a gold seller without accidentally dealing with one of the thieves. You can make the argument that buying from gold sellers creates a market that encourages the thieves (but I don’t think that’s a particularly valid argument).
But please stop saying that all gold sellers are inherently thieves. You’re smarter than that, John, and I’d appreciate if you’d assume that we are too.
They really are thieves though. No more legitimate than a person selling illegal copies of DVDs or CDs for 5 dollars each versus the 15 or 20 dollars the publishers are selling them at.
I keep seeing John making the assumption that “gold sellers = thieves”, and it’s offending my intelligence every time. It’s no more valid than “person who sells things = thieves”.
Clearly some gold sellers are selling gold stolen from player accounts. Clearly some are not, and are selling gold from combinations of botting and efficient farming. The first class are engaging in criminal activity. The second are merely doing something Anet wishes they wouldn’t.
You can make the argument that it’s hard to buy from a gold seller without accidentally dealing with one of the thieves. You can make the argument that buying from gold sellers creates a market that encourages the thieves (but I don’t think that’s a particularly valid argument).
But please stop saying that all gold sellers are inherently thieves. You’re smarter than that, John, and I’d appreciate if you’d assume that we are too.
Even in the case where botting accounts used by gold sellers are not stolen directly from players, they are often paid for using stolen credit card numbers. The majority of gold sellers are indeed thieves of one form or other.
(edited by Astraea.6075)
They really are thieves though. No more legitimate than a person selling illegal copies of DVDs or CDs for 5 dollars each versus the 15 or 20 dollars the publishers are selling them at.
No, the person bootlegging CDs was originally a person who was enegaging in a civil breach of copyright, and now by changes to legislation in most western countries is committing a criminal offence. Their criminality theoretically derives from reducing the value of the legitimate good by creating unathorised copies of it; it’s the same principle as counterfeiting currency.
A gold seller creating gold from farming or botting is selling a good that they obtained in the same way that everyone else obtains it – by playing the game. They obtained it perhaps more efficiently than other players, but other players could theoretically generate gold at the same rate by doing exactly what the bots are doing. The difference between five bots running a loop and five players doing it is only that the time of the players is saved.
Given the design of Guild Wars 2, the effects of botting behaviour on gameplay are minimal – they break immersion, the make some content easier by being present, and obviously if they are also spamming advertising for their product they are being unsociable and creating digital noise pollution.
Even in the case where botting accounts used by gold sellers are not stolen directly from players, they are often paid for using stolen credit card numbers. The majority of gold sellers are indeed thieves of one form or other.
The majority of people are thieves of one sort or another. That’s not to the point. The point is that it’s simply not correct to say that all gold sellers are engaging in criminal theft to operate their business, and inasmuch as John keeps basing his argument on that he’s debating dishonestly.
If Anet wanted to fix this problem they could immediately make all valuable goods account-bound, and effectively disable the economy side of the game. But Anet have gone the other way, and deliberately designed a system capable of supporting a resilient and realistic economy, to the point of even hiring an economist, and it’s immature to now throw up their hands and say, “Oh, but we didn’t want there to be competition in our economy.”
Anet have more tools available to manage their economy than any national government. For example, they get to say, “Our competition are criminals,” which I’m sure Coca-Cola would love to put in their next advertising campaign but for some reason aren’t quite allowed to. They also get to exact unilateral sanctions against their competitors’ customers. They don’t need to win an ideological war here; they just need to continue using the tools that they have to make the Anet product more attractive than the gold seller product.
You are not entitled to a legendary, this entitlement issue is disgusting tbh, and a remnant of the WoW era.
I don’t want to get into an argument, so this is the last statement I will make here:
Of the data that I have seen. Which is significant. It is reasonable to say
1) Goldsellers are a criminal group
2) Goldsellers damage games
3) Goldsellers cannot be classified as competition because they are not in the same industry
These are not statements of belief. They are statements of statistics.
Hello and thank you for not ignoring this so close to the end of your day. You do not need to argue but mustn’t you discuss this. You are a Goldseller.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
Arenet is facing the same dilemma that every US state that decided to allow medical marijuana use faced: How to price the medicine now that they sold pot.
“No! You can’t eat the ones that talk!
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
They’re special! They got aspirations.”
Finn the human
What a great quote.
This is like saying you wouldn’t illegally download music if the companies just lowered their prices.