Increasing trading post tax.
I can add my numbers to the pile :-) 300 hours clocked and all the money I’ve ever had I’d estimate at 100-150g. But then again, at least half of that time was spent with under-80s.
Should players be locked out of the game after 2 hours online per day? Because it’s not fair that someone should be able to collect loot all day long while you’re at …
Oh it’s not about that at all. You’re missing the point so much it hurts considering how many times it has been stated.
What we would like to see is lesser income disparity between the ways of making money in the game. I would see an ideal point where you have an average way of making money and any other way differs in potential only by +-50% in that you’re not gimping yourself by selecting a playstyle, therefore the only income gate that remains is time, which all players have in common.
Say you have…
1) harvesting and selling – 6gph
2) crafting – 12gph
3) doing dungeons – 10gph
4) world bosses – 12gph
5) PvP/WvW rewards – 7gph
etc etc
So that not one of these paths is worse off by more than double in comparison to a different one.Then we can all differentiate our wealth more or less only by how much time we spend playing and not have to worry about being effective or not in a freakin’ causal game all the while experiencing all the game has to offer.
I think you just widely overestimate the average profit being made as tp merchant.
Personally, I already stated that I estimate my account wealth to be in the region of 50-60k gold and people said i make too much gold on the tp. But I also clocked more than 6k hours, so my hourly rate is less than 10 gold, which seems pretty much in line with other ways of earning gold.most people have not come anywhere close to 10 gold per hour overall sir, you have just demonstrated your richness, and your out of touchness with the common mans world. imagine if you will having 1000-2000 hours and your account wealth is in the region of 1000 gold. this is the normal player.
this means you have 10 times the money per hour they have. and things you seek to obtain are 10 harder for them to obtain.im estimating, but JS has all the numbers, he can give us the average value of hours played-wealth obtained.
It just demonstrates that i am more dedicated than the average player and play game more efficiently than them.
Borghal just suggested that the average gph return for crafting/dungeons/world bosses
is 10-12g and i compared it to my average earnings in game which seem to be completely in line.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Um… so it takes about 25g to gear up a fresh 80 in exotics… I’ve done it 8 times, so that’s about 200 gold. I’ve used crafting to give each alt about 20 levels (times at least 16 alts, some of them reached 80, some were deleted to make a new one), every 10 levels cost me maybe 50 gold because I was stupid and bought sell orders instead of waiting/farming mats…
I don’t keep track, but I’ve gathered and spent at least 2000 gold since I started playing the game. When I say I don’t understand why people have such a hard time making money, I really mean it. A year ago I was going around to the low level zone World Bosses, Wurm, SB, Frozen Maw, Elemental, and occasionally the dragons. The loot from those events alone was enough to gear up a new 80 in a week or two, and represents maybe 1 hour/day of my time.
(edited by tolunart.2095)
I can add my numbers to the pile :-) 300 hours clocked and all the money I’ve ever had I’d estimate at 100-150g. But then again, at least half of that time was spent with under-80s.
In a different topic on this forum you just stated a day ago that you sold crying thorn of dreams for a net worth of 230g.
Please tell me how i should believe any numbers that you pull out of your hat to supplement your arguements to be true from this point on?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
i already told you why its bad.
earning at different rates creates different rewards per effort
And we have pointed out countless times why a) it is not bad and b) going on “effort” alone is a terrible metric.
I know the game, i just dont think its a good mechanic that me being able to focus on numbers, data, mathematics, should make me win at the game.
It doesn’t, unless you think being able to play dress up a bit faster than someone who is not actually in competition with you is “winning the game”. Which would be a bit of an odd viewpoint to take.
most people have not come anywhere close to 10 gold per hour overall sir
I do and can via pve. Others can as well, they obviously choose not to so it’s their problem really. You will note “most” “normal” people flipping the TP also do not come close to 10G per hour.
Regardless, expecting to “balance” two systems with fundamentally different mechanics in order to solve a “problem” which has not been proven to exist is a bit of a daft idea all said.
But I would add in tokens for current skins/items as well as for new, unlock/no trade only items for those players who demonstrate “skill”. i.e. those who can solo dungeons or set record times (or add in “elite mode” dungeons/paths). For those that win spvp tournaments and for those that dominate the GvG side of WvW.
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
I can add my numbers to the pile :-) 300 hours clocked and all the money I’ve ever had I’d estimate at 100-150g. But then again, at least half of that time was spent with under-80s.
In a different topic on this forum you just stated a day ago that you sold crying thorn of dreams for a net worth of 230g.
Please tell me how i should believe any numbers that you pull out of your hat to supplement your arguements to be true from this point on?
Simple. I do not count the Thorn into my income – it’s one of the most profitable drops in the game and being RNG based, you can’t count on it. A week ago I didnt have it. Now, with one drop, I have triple the gold I had before, but that hardly counts as standard when trying to compare things. It’ll probably take months at least, maybe statistically I will even never get such a valuable find again.
If all of that doesn’t make sense to you, just imagine I wrote that a week ago before it dropped. The hours and gold would be spot on without neglecting anything.
I can add my numbers to the pile :-) 300 hours clocked and all the money I’ve ever had I’d estimate at 100-150g. But then again, at least half of that time was spent with under-80s.
In a different topic on this forum you just stated a day ago that you sold crying thorn of dreams for a net worth of 230g.
Please tell me how i should believe any numbers that you pull out of your hat to supplement your arguements to be true from this point on?Simple. I do not count the Thorn into my income – it’s one of the most profitable drops in the game and being RNG based, you can’t count on it. A week ago I didnt have it. Now, with one drop, I have triple the gold I had before, but that hardly counts as standard when trying to compare things. It’ll probably take months at least, maybe statistically I will even never get such a valuable find again.
If all of that doesn’t make sense to you, just imagine I wrote that a week ago before it dropped. The hours and gold would be spot on without neglecting anything.
So youre complaining all this time that its too hard for you to get exclusive skins. Then you get one as a drop and it somehow doesnt count towards your goal?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
The complaint in diablo 3 and gw2 is exactly the same. The amount of complaint on the forum on the topic is roughly the same too.
.I never played D3 and it’s been a while since I read about the crash there… but wasn’t there something about players selling stuff for real money? And if the situation is the same, why hasn’t inflation spiraled out of control leading to GW2 crashing? Things are actually working as intended, as confirmed many times by JS. You remember him, right? The guy who is in charge of keeping things working as intended…
yes Blizzard “let” people selling items for real money.
The problem with diablo was never about inflation. The problem is there is no point playing. Because you are not rewarded with anything. People literally played hundred of hours and get “0” things in return. Even if a legendary drops, unless it have perfect stats and most likely it don’t, it sells for penny in the auction house, since there is no bound on equip system.
And the flipping issue is much worse in diablo. Because people are putting items that worth billions for a few hundred gold. Since a sword with perfect stats might worth billions while if the stats isn’t perfect it is worth a few hundred gold.
And since you dont’ make “any” money farming, since getting anything worth any thing is like the lottery. People end up spend all their time flipping the auction house.
And many games “let” people buy gems(or whatever currency it is in their game) from the cash shop and sell it themselves to other players for in game gold without “going through a currency exchange system”.
And you talked about diablo being broken and want people to compare to other games instead. Which is exactly my point, which other game have people complaining about flippers making too much money.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
It just demonstrates that i am more dedicated than the average player and play game more efficiently than them.
Borghal just suggested that the average gph return for crafting/dungeons/world bosses
is 10-12g and i compared it to my average earnings in game which seem to be completely in line.
eih no, because many game play dont’ even reward anything, for example map completion or spvp. Or for example spend 1 hours afking so you can spend 20 minutes killing tequal. Even with the revamped spvp, I’m not sure if the reward is comparable to other things you can get.
Those activity can be fun but not necessary rewarding.
The problem with diablo was never about inflation.
And then you go on to describe how inflation destroyed the game’s economy.
I googled the situation with D3 and read this article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-21/diablo-3-case-virtual-hyperinflation
It describes what happened in the game that destroyed its economy, and it is pretty much the exact opposite of GW2.
So, if you want to compare the two it’s like saying vanilla ice cream is just like chocolate ice cream. Which it is, except they are completely different.
The problem with diablo was never about inflation.
And then you go on to describe how inflation destroyed the game’s economy.
I googled the situation with D3 and read this article:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-21/diablo-3-case-virtual-hyperinflation
It describes what happened in the game that destroyed its economy, and it is pretty much the exact opposite of GW2.
So, if you want to compare the two it’s like saying vanilla ice cream is just like chocolate ice cream. Which it is, except they are completely different.
I played up to december I think. I can’t recall, so I can’t comment too much about what happen after.
If I recall correct. It is some form of duping that happened right after. That is the main reason about the hyper inflation at that time.
And the guy already pointed out what the problem is nothing is worth anything. There is no point using the blacksmith because you wont’ get anything in return. (which is the main source of money sink).
99% of the items on the auction house is actually getting cheaper. It’s the 1% of the item that everyone want worth your whole bank account.
The problem with diablo was never about inflation.
It describes what happened in the game that destroyed its economy, and it is pretty much the exact opposite of GW2.
In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
There you go. The problem with it is never about inflation directly. It is about bug and duping.
In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
There you go. The problem with it is never about inflation directly. It is about bug and duping.
Right. Here’s some quotes from the article:
[W]hy [are] certain items priced [s]o astronomically high? Many of them are not even that good yet cost 100’s of millions of gold. … I have about 45,000,000 gold saved up [and] check every few days to see if I can get any upgrades that are worth the gold, but … everything is vastly overpriced … clearly controlled by the gold sellers.
[A]dditional gold sinks [are] unfortunately comparable to spitting on a fire … [they] do nothing to limit the core issue which is that players are earning gold faster than they [want] to spend it. Repairing is not a … good gold sink as it works best [for] players who are [dying]. … Crafting is the same, works well on players who can get the items to craft with … but leaves players with limited gold supply out of the picture. … The amount of gold that drops … needs to be nerfed, and not softly.
watching the markets collapse and gold become worthless. … So you feel rich that you have a billion or two in gold[?] … [W]ell guess what, you aren’t … there is nothing you can invest in to hold value. The only thing worth anything has become $$$.
Several competing definitions for hyperinflation exist, with the strictest — an increase of 50 percent in one month — defined by economist Philip Cagan in his 1956 book The Monetary Dynamics of Hyperinflation. By his definition, the Diablo 3 economy appears to have entered hyperinflation between February and March of 2013, when the black market price of gold fell from $0.20/million to $0.05/million — a decline of over 75 percent in a few weeks
This, however, was still only the penultimate stage. On May 7th 8th, 2013, Blizzard rolled out Patch 1.0.8, which contained the seeds of the last, hyperbolic surge of gold superabundance. One change was the altering of the gold stack size from 1 million to 10 million per $0.25: a simultaneous redenomination and 90 percent devaluation (sitting, as the price was, at the RMAH floor) of virtual gold, targeting black market rates of roughly 4 cents per 10 million. In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
In just a few hours, the already gold-swamped economy saw trillions more created: a mammoth deluge of, by then, worthless virtual gold chasing finite goods, driving prices upward in leaps and bounds. It was, at last, the hyperbolic blow-off characteristic of real world hyperinflationary episodes.
Oh, there’s that part about the bug. Yep, no mention of inflation at all, just a bug.
(edited by tolunart.2095)
Say you have…
1) harvesting and selling – 6gph
2) crafting – 12gph
3) doing dungeons – 10gph
4) world bosses – 12gph
5) PvP/WvW rewards – 7gph
I dunno if those were meant to be actual estimates but all aside from the harvesting seem fairly off base. 12g per hour doing world bosses? Um wat? I’d halve the dungeon rate as well.
Also harvesting has been severely nerfed due to the dumb megaservers.
In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
There you go. The problem with it is never about inflation directly. It is about bug and duping.
Right. Here’s some quotes from the article:
[W]hy [are] certain items priced [s]o astronomically high? Many of them are not even that good yet cost 100’s of millions of gold. … I have about 45,000,000 gold saved up [and] check every few days to see if I can get any upgrades that are worth the gold, but … everything is vastly overpriced … clearly controlled by the gold sellers.
[A]dditional gold sinks [are] unfortunately comparable to spitting on a fire … [they] do nothing to limit the core issue which is that players are earning gold faster than they [want] to spend it. Repairing is not a … good gold sink as it works best [for] players who are [dying]. … Crafting is the same, works well on players who can get the items to craft with … but leaves players with limited gold supply out of the picture. … The amount of gold that drops … needs to be nerfed, and not softly.
watching the markets collapse and gold become worthless. … So you feel rich that you have a billion or two in gold[?] … [W]ell guess what, you aren’t … there is nothing you can invest in to hold value. The only thing worth anything has become $$$.
Several competing definitions for hyperinflation exist, with the strictest — an increase of 50 percent in one month — defined by economist Philip Cagan in his 1956 book The Monetary Dynamics of Hyperinflation. By his definition, the Diablo 3 economy appears to have entered hyperinflation between February and March of 2013, when the black market price of gold fell from $0.20/million to $0.05/million — a decline of over 75 percent in a few weeks
This, however, was still only the penultimate stage. On May 7th 8th, 2013, Blizzard rolled out Patch 1.0.8, which contained the seeds of the last, hyperbolic surge of gold superabundance. One change was the altering of the gold stack size from 1 million to 10 million per $0.25: a simultaneous redenomination and 90 percent devaluation (sitting, as the price was, at the RMAH floor) of virtual gold, targeting black market rates of roughly 4 cents per 10 million. In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
In just a few hours, the already gold-swamped economy saw trillions more created: a mammoth deluge of, by then, worthless virtual gold chasing finite goods, driving prices upward in leaps and bounds. It was, at last, the hyperbolic blow-off characteristic of real world hyperinflationary episodes.
Oh, there’s that part about the bug. Yep, no mention of inflation at all, just a bug.
No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.
The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.
They’re ballpark figures, not scientific research. And probably more accurate for pre-patch than right now, since everything is in a bit of a flux. But not that far off from reality. The numbers would assume, however, that you are salvaging whatever can be salvaged and posting sell orders on the TP instead of vendor prices or selling to buy orders, which would take a little longer to sell everything but you end up getting about 20% more in the long run.
In other words, them’s smart player numbers.
No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.
The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.
The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.
…the Diablo 3 economy appears to have entered hyperinflation between February and March of 2013…
On May 7th 8th, 2013, Blizzard rolled out Patch 1.0.8, which contained the seeds of the last, hyperbolic surge of gold superabundance… In addition, a bug within the patch allowed users to cancel transactions in the auction house before completion, essentially allowing them to double their gold on demand.
No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.
The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.
The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.
Obviously since you know so much about a game you never played. And you have so many resource that you know only 5 people is complaining about the GW2 economy system.
Let me ask you a question, what does it matter if I’m paying in Japanese dollar or US dollar. You seemed to think the value of the currency matters.
If there really is an inflation in diablo 99% of the item wont’ drop in price.
People just like to talk about basic economy principal and not look at the big picture. Everyone assumed price will drop since Anet nerf champ bag gold by 80%, and apparently T6 material keep climbing.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
If GW2 were to suffer similar problems to D3, for example, the price of Dusk would jump from 1,000g to 10,000 to 10,000,000g within a month.
No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.
The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.
The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.
Obviously since you know so much about a game you never played. And you have so many resource that you know only 5 people is complaining about the GW2 economy system.
I can read. Do you know that May comes after March?
Nevermind. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.
(edited by tolunart.2095)
This is an interesting conclusion, from the same article:
Two obvious solutions for managers of virtual economies include more vigilant bot restrictions and close — indeed, real-time — monitoring of faucet output, sink absorption, prices, and user behaviors. More critically, though, whether structured as auctions or exchanges, markets must be allowed to operate freely, without caps, floors, or other artificialities. Unrestricted (real) cash auctions would for the most part preempt and obviate black markets.
No, that’s not what I"m saying. I’m saying the “problem” is the bug which cause the inflation. Not inflation due to the economy system.
The source of the problem is the bug not the inflation due to their economy system.
The bug came at the very end of the period of hyperinflation, it didn’t cause it.
Obviously since you know so much about a game you never played. And you have so many resource that you know only 5 people is complaining about the GW2 economy system.
I can read. Do you know that May comes after March?
Nevermind. You don’t even know what you’re talking about.
why only march?
And you act like hyperinflation matters. If the problem is really about hyperinflation, I should be able to make 10 times more money from farming items which is the only thing to do in the game.
why does it matter if you are paying in japanese dollar or Euro.
If GW2 were to suffer similar problems to D3, for example, the price of Dusk would jump from 1,000g to 10,000 to 10,000,000g within a month.
You just like to talk your way out. Like D3 inflation is even worse than the gem-gold exchange.
why does it matter if you are paying in japanese dollar or Euro.
Because the Euro is a real currency, the japanese dollar is not.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
the Ah was always a problem for d3, even before inflation, and after closing the real money auction house, mostly because the gameplay works counter to the AH. The point of playing the game is to find leet drops, you have to find lots and lots of leet drops, the whole reason for playing is the never know what your going to get, and wanting those hard to get things.
AH changed it to a sure thing, you just had to grind enough gold. suffice to say the actual game is a lot more boring once you arent hunting rare drops.
Anyhow the game is better, and sold very well with abolishment of the AH completely, the game is redesigned so that drops are easy, you can reroll stats, and there is always a reason to jump back in, also the gold sinks eat up basically everything in your hunt for power. anyhow, The main point of that was to say that working as intended isnt always good for the game, and that trying to create TP economies can work against gameplay.
If GW2 were to suffer similar problems to D3, for example, the price of Dusk would jump from 1,000g to 10,000 to 10,000,000g within a month.
you are missing the point, they could have fixed the AH, but it served no purpose, the AH was just bad for the game in general.
why does it matter if you are paying in japanese
dollaryen or Euro.Because the Euro is a real currency, the japanese dollar is not.
Anyhow the game is better, and sold very well with abolishment of the AH completely, the game is redesigned so that drops are easy, you can reroll stats, and there is always a reason to jump back in, also the gold sinks eat up basically everything in your hunt for power. anyhow, The main point of that was to say that working as intended isnt always good for the game, and that trying to create TP economies can work against gameplay.
ya but in all fairness, Anet is trying to sell gem, Blizzard isn’t.
Once upon a time there was a kingdom that was ruled by a king. Three men went to find the king because they wanted to live in the wonderful kingdom the king had built.
The three men came before the king and asked if they may live in his kingdom. “Of course, all are welcome here!” said the king. “Here are the titles to three equal sized plots of land, go and build your homes.”
As the men were leaving the castle, the king’s wizard approached them, “Sirs, before you leave I’d like to give each of you a magic wand that will help you build your homes. This wand will allow you to move the lumber into place and magically nail the boards together so that you can quickly finish your home.”
The first man replied “I am an adventurer, I don’t have time for learning how to use magical trinkets. Keep the wand, I’ll use the sticks and rocks I find out in the wild”.
The second man said “I am a farmer and am familiar with using tools. I’ll just use my hammer to build my home.”
The third man, a merchant, said “I will gladly accept your generous offer wizard, is there anything else I should know about this wand?”
The wizard replied “Yes, there is one thing. Even though your friends did not accept the wand, every time you use yours, it will make their homes stronger and able to withstand the elements”. “That’s nonsense” exclaimed the adventurer. The wizard glanced at the adventurer and tersely replied “No”.
The three men then went to their new lands and worked on their homes.
One day, the happy adventurer was walking through the town and thinking about how much he enjoyed wandering the wastes and seeing new things. As it was, he came upon the farmer’s house. Upon seeing that the farmer’s home was halfway done it occurred to him that his own home was merely a pile of broken sticks and rocks. His previous thoughts of joy quickly soured. “Farmer!” He shouted, “how came it to be that you’ve managed to build such a nice home while I live in a hovel?”. The farmer replied “I’ve worked hard and relied upon my tools to build this home. I can show you how to use a hammer, if you want”. The adventurer considered the offer, but decided that using a hammer wasn’t exciting enough for him. “I’ll not use your hammer farmer, but can you show me the way to the merchant’s home? Perhaps he can help me”. The farmer considered the request, “Yes, I can show you the way. I haven’t seen the merchant since we all last met and it would be good to visit him again”.
Continued…
Server: Devona’s Rest
The two men set out across town to the merchant’s home. When they arrived, they saw a magnificent home surrounded by exquisite gardens. Upon seeing them, the merchant ran out of the house and greeted them warmly, “Hello my old friends! How have you fared?” he asked. “Times have not been kind to me”, lamented the adventurer. “I live in a hovel and have nothing to show for my efforts”. “Oh my, I’m sorry to hear that” consoled the merchant, “I had heard that you were having a great time out in the world adventuring, what changed?”. “Well, I came to town and saw what the farmer had built and realized that my chosen path didn’t aid me in building a home”, replied the adventurer. “To add to that” inserted the farmer, “I too am now more than a little unhappy. I have been toiling away with my hammer for some time now and my home is still not complete, yet here you are enjoying a luxurious mansion”. “I’m sorry to hear that as well farmer”, said the merchant, “If you want, I can get the wizard here today to give each of you a wand so that you can quickly finish your homes”. “I’d still rather not”, said the adventurer and farmer together. “We still prefer our methods, we just think it isn’t right that your method worked out so much better”.
The farmer and the adventurer bid farewell to the merchant and began walking home. “It isn’t right at all”, proclaimed the adventurer. “I should be able to spend my time exploring and have a wonderful home to return to!”. “I agree”, the farmer concurred. “Those wands are dangerous!” “I know what we can do, let’s get the wands banned!”.
The farmer set out to rally the people of the city to his side. He frequently gave tours to the merchant’s lovely home and incited the masses with jealousy over the nice things that the merchant had acquired using the wand. Soon, there was a public outcry about the dangers of the wands. The adventurer has having a bit less luck trying to convince the wizard about the wand though. Every day, the adventurer showed up at the wizard’s tower demanding to see the wizard. On the days he was granted an audience, he explained how he was unable to build his home out of sticks and rocks and the wand was therefore an evil tool. The wizard would always reply “No”, and send him away.
Eventually, the masses became so angry about the wands that they went to the king. The king heard their pleas and asked them what they would have him do to appease them. “We demand that the merchants be cast out of the town and all the wands destroyed for their evil magics!” the people shouted. Weary about the current state of his gem mines and the incursions from some foreign lands, the king decided to acquiesce to the people’s demands.
The next day, the merchant and the other wand users were taken out of the city, their homes were burnt to the ground and the wands were all destroyed. The people were overjoyed that their own homes now looked much nicer without all those mansions to compare them to. “Finally, we are free from the evil of the wands!”
It wasn’t long before that joy turned into terror though, as without the wands’ power to strengthen the homes around them, all of the houses in the kingdom began to collapse and fall upon the people, killing them in their beds. Within a few short weeks, the people were gone and the kingdom lay in ruins.
A badly wounded adventurer crawled his way to the wizard’s tower and begged to be allowed in. The wizard came to the door, his suitcase in hand as he was just about to move to a new country. “Please,” begged the adventurer, “Please help me! Please help the kingdom!”. The wizard looked at the pathetic man laying on his doorstep. “No”.
The End.
Server: Devona’s Rest
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
I think the moral of the story is farmers and adventure can use wand also.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
Server: Devona’s Rest
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?
No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.
It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.
And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?
No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.
It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.
And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.
Actually, this is the MMO that is the most difficult to make profit using the TP of any MMO I’ve ever played, primarily because the servers all share the same economy and there aren’t a bunch of arbitrary restrictions that can be exploited.
They deleted the suggestion thread because it was chaos. You leave your suggestions in the relevant forum now.
As for rewards, adventuring and farming are the only way to get rewards in this game. Playing the TP does not provide any rewards at all.
Server: Devona’s Rest
(edited by mtpelion.4562)
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
Here is another moral for the story. GW2 has a massive unregulated market, something unseen in “most games” so to suggest some regulation isn’t an outrageous proposal. Putting in a check and balance system on buy and sell orders would seemingly keep the market moving smoothly and reduce the price spikes seen in certain markets, bringing fair and balanced practices for everyone.
It really, in all fairness, doesn’t matter if marketeers are ruining the economy or not. It doesn’t matter that they are earning shiny goods faster, forget those arguments. Let’s just talk about how we can regulate the market prices to be smoother, where prices don’t skyrocket in a day or an hour and the average player eats that spike. Lets talk about it in a way that improves the market for everyone.
[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?
No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.
It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.
And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.
Actually, this is the MMO that is the most difficult to make profit using the TP of any MMO I’ve ever played, primarily because the servers all share the same economy and there aren’t a bunch of arbitrary restrictions that can be exploited.
As for rewards, adventuring and farming are the only way to get rewards in this game. Playing the TP does not provide any rewards at all.
ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.
I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.
You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
Here is another moral for the story. GW2 has a massive unregulated market, something unseen in “most games” so to suggest some regulation isn’t an outrageous proposal. Putting in a check and balance system on buy and sell orders would seemingly keep the market moving smoothly and reduce the price spikes seen in certain markets, bringing fair and balanced practices for everyone.
It really, in all fairness, doesn’t matter if marketeers are ruining the economy or not. It doesn’t matter that they are earning shiny goods faster, forget those arguments. Let’s just talk about how we can regulate the market prices to be smoother, where prices don’t skyrocket in a day or an hour and the average player eats that spike. Lets talk about it in a way that improves the market for everyone.
Regulating buy and sell orders wont help negating price spikes. The usage of bolts of silk for ascended crafting was limited to 100 per account per day, the spike came nonetheless.
As soon as you limit buy and sell orders, the market loses alot of velocity and price spikes will actually be higher and take more time to get back into equilibrium.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
you mean like Arena deleting the suggesting forum. So no one is suggesting on the main forum?
No, people arn’t complaining about the TP, people are complaining the way the game is designed, flippers have such a huge advantage in this game compare to other games.
It isn’t as easy to gain money from the TP in other games.
And you already pointed out the problem, adventure and farmers arn’t reward in this game. I’m pretty sure they are equal if not more rewarded than merchant in other game.
Actually, this is the MMO that is the most difficult to make profit using the TP of any MMO I’ve ever played, primarily because the servers all share the same economy and there aren’t a bunch of arbitrary restrictions that can be exploited.
As for rewards, adventuring and farming are the only way to get rewards in this game. Playing the TP does not provide any rewards at all.
ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.
I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.
You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.
Most of my account wealth has been given to me by other players, it wasnt created by anet out of thin air to land in my inventory.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.
I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.
You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.
Wanze doesn’t get rewarded by the TP. Other players are giving him their rewards as a trade for things they want. That’s how he builds his house. The TP does not create any rewards at all, it is an exchange tool that lets you give away stuff you don’t want for stuff you do want.
Adventurers and Farmers get rewarded for doing adventuring and farming. Those rewards get traded for gold or used. If they want to trade for gold, they have to use the proper tool, which is the TP.
Server: Devona’s Rest
Considering that ya’ll defend the economy tooth and nail, I take it you think it’s perfect?
Serenity now~Insanity later
Considering that ya’ll defend the economy tooth and nail, I take it you think it’s perfect?
It’s a fairly well balanced free market.
That’s as close to perfect as you can get.
Server: Devona’s Rest
ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.
I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.
You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.
Wanze doesn’t get rewarded by the TP. Other players are giving him their rewards as a trade for things they want. That’s how he builds his house. The TP does not create any rewards at all, it is an exchange tool that lets you give away stuff you don’t want for stuff you do want.
Adventurers and Farmers get rewarded for doing adventuring and farming. Those rewards get traded for gold or used. If they want to trade for gold, they have to use the proper tool, which is the TP.
Which is why people are complaining. People actually get rewarded for just farming and adventure in other game. And in this game just like you said, they literally have nothing to show for compare to the merchant.
And the button line is Wanze did get rewarded for what he is doing, which is being a merchant. And dont’ tell me Wanze having a beautiful house isn’t a reward.
Considering that ya’ll defend the economy tooth and nail, I take it you think it’s perfect?
It’s a fairly well balanced free market.
That’s as close to perfect as you can get.
perfect economy? probably.
Perfect society or game? no.
It’s like the government trying to enforce the taiwaness people free trade between china. Is it better for the economy? yes it is. But it dont’ necessary mean everyone will have better living. That’s why there’s a riot there.
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
Here is another moral for the story. GW2 has a massive unregulated market, something unseen in “most games” so to suggest some regulation isn’t an outrageous proposal. Putting in a check and balance system on buy and sell orders would seemingly keep the market moving smoothly and reduce the price spikes seen in certain markets, bringing fair and balanced practices for everyone.
It really, in all fairness, doesn’t matter if marketeers are ruining the economy or not. It doesn’t matter that they are earning shiny goods faster, forget those arguments. Let’s just talk about how we can regulate the market prices to be smoother, where prices don’t skyrocket in a day or an hour and the average player eats that spike. Lets talk about it in a way that improves the market for everyone.
Regulating buy and sell orders wont help negating price spikes. The usage of bolts of silk for ascended crafting was limited to 100 per account per day, the spike came nonetheless.
As soon as you limit buy and sell orders, the market loses alot of velocity and price spikes will actually be higher and take more time to get back into equilibrium.
How about we do a little theory crafting? Maybe we can point out some flaws in the system, which may or may not be glaring problems. I don’t have a bunch of time to sit down and run the numbers, but on the surface it seems like a logical suggestion. Here is the breakdown.
Problem: The market prices can be anything. Super high sell orders on wood (lets say) can and do on occasion get reached in the same way super low buy orders can and do get reached. This “price gouging for maximum profit” gets passed on to the un-knowledgeable consumer.
Solution: Limit the range in which buy and sell orders can be placed (tossing out a number here, say 35%). Once an established sell order is made, the buy and sell prices can’t move out of that 35% range (70% margin between buy and sell). As sales increase in price the target moves with it.
Example: A new item hits the market a bunch of players put in that dropped item into the market at all sorts of prices (we’ll say a range between 100g and 5g). Obviously the low sell offer will establish our range, kicking back all the sell orders beyond that range. Buy orders get put in too now, but we have an established target, they cannot be placed below 35%, nor can sell offers be placed higher than 35%. As new sell and buy prices get established that target fluctuates, which allows for increase and decreases in price, but not spiked prices beyond that range.
Now, in my mind, i envision it how the target price for gems works now. If i place an exchange offer, wait a few minutes, the price moves and i cannot make the exchange. So i know at least the system is capable (coded enough) to a least factor in that ability in tracking. Obviously, i’m not doing the math here, it could be 25% or 20% or 50%….
[TAO] Founder/Owner and Administrator for the NSP Server Website
It’s possible I’ve missed it and I apologize if that’s true, but I haven’t seen any evidence or even a correct hypothesis that a group of the rich can negatively effect your gameplay experience. I think a clear set of ideas would help me understand and respond to the issue.
All the profits that the Trading Post manipulators make for themselves comes via artificially increasing the prices for everyone else. The TP is a rampant speculation market. The problem isn’t that the rich are rich, its that they extracted value from buyers to get there.
ya sure so magically Wanz have like 60k asset since he dont’ get rewarded from TP at all.
I think you have some point about not easy to profit from the TP. But you are forgetting the main point.
You literally says yourself, farmers and adventurer aren’t rewarded in your story. Which is the main reason why people are complaining. I don’t think your story applied in other mmorpg, because people’ll actually tell you they are rewarded for adventure or farming.
Wanze doesn’t get rewarded by the TP. Other players are giving him their rewards as a trade for things they want. That’s how he builds his house. The TP does not create any rewards at all, it is an exchange tool that lets you give away stuff you don’t want for stuff you do want.
Adventurers and Farmers get rewarded for doing adventuring and farming. Those rewards get traded for gold or used. If they want to trade for gold, they have to use the proper tool, which is the TP.
Which is why people are complaining. People actually get rewarded for just farming and adventure in other game. And in this game just like you said, they literally have nothing to show for compare to the merchant.
And the button line is Wanze did get rewarded for what he is doing, which is being a merchant. And dont’ tell me Wanze having a beautiful house isn’t a reward.
My house is purely paid by profits, not rewards. Anet never gave me any reward for playing the tp, in fact, they take their 15% cut. If you want me to earn less profits, you have to change player behaviour, not the game itself.
Instead of selling to my buy order directly, post at the same price i would, after i had my buy order filled and you will make as much profit as me at the same pace.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Which is why people are complaining. People actually get rewarded for just farming and adventure in other game. And in this game just like you said, they literally have nothing to show for compare to the merchant.
And the button line is Wanze did get rewarded for what he is doing, which is being a merchant. And dont’ tell me Wanze having a beautiful house isn’t a reward.
In this game, you still can get every reward in the game by adventuring or farming. If you don’t want to take that long, you can also trade away your things for gold, then trade that gold for the thing you want. Most other games don’t allow you to do that and force you to grind out everything for yourself.
Bottom line, Wanze is enjoying the rewards of other players because they GAVE him their rewards because they wanted to. If Wanze has a nice house, it is because the players of this game rewarded him, not the game. The game ONLY rewards adventuring and farming.
Server: Devona’s Rest
Say you have…
1) harvesting and selling – 6gph
2) crafting – 12gph
3) doing dungeons – 10gph
4) world bosses – 12gph
5) PvP/WvW rewards – 7gphI dunno if those were meant to be actual estimates but all aside from the harvesting seem fairly off base. 12g per hour doing world bosses? Um wat? I’d halve the dungeon rate as well.
Also harvesting has been severely nerfed due to the dumb megaservers.
Those were not meant as real estimates. Its a fictitious example of what the differences should ideally be like, to give you an idea what the percentage differences I was talking about would look like.
So youre complaining all this time that its too hard for you to get exclusive skins. Then you get one as a drop and it somehow doesnt count towards your goal?
It is not about me. It’s about getting the idea of an average income of a player that is not dedicated to minmaxing gold gain.
When determining how long you will work towards something you want, you cannot account for random 200gold item drops. That stuff may never happen again. For a lot of people it never does at all, instead they get exo’s much lower in value. The Thorn didn’t drop because the game felt I needed more gold. I just got extremely lucky, like buying a few keys and getting 5 claim tickets in 10 chests.
^ cool story bro. I’m sure most mmorpg have a TP and no one is complaining about the merchant there.
Most (all?) MMORPGs don’t have a forum for talking about their economy. ArenaNet is quite different in that they are willing to actually talk about this topic, whereas other games simply delete those posts.
EDIT: Yes, the moral of the story is that the TP is a tool that you can use to build the things you want. The tool is available to everyone.
Here is another moral for the story. GW2 has a massive unregulated market, something unseen in “most games” so to suggest some regulation isn’t an outrageous proposal. Putting in a check and balance system on buy and sell orders would seemingly keep the market moving smoothly and reduce the price spikes seen in certain markets, bringing fair and balanced practices for everyone.
It really, in all fairness, doesn’t matter if marketeers are ruining the economy or not. It doesn’t matter that they are earning shiny goods faster, forget those arguments. Let’s just talk about how we can regulate the market prices to be smoother, where prices don’t skyrocket in a day or an hour and the average player eats that spike. Lets talk about it in a way that improves the market for everyone.
Regulating buy and sell orders wont help negating price spikes. The usage of bolts of silk for ascended crafting was limited to 100 per account per day, the spike came nonetheless.
As soon as you limit buy and sell orders, the market loses alot of velocity and price spikes will actually be higher and take more time to get back into equilibrium.How about we do a little theory crafting? Maybe we can point out some flaws in the system, which may or may not be glaring problems. I don’t have a bunch of time to sit down and run the numbers, but on the surface it seems like a logical suggestion. Here is the breakdown.
Problem: The market prices can be anything. Super high sell orders on wood (lets say) can and do on occasion get reached in the same way super low buy orders can and do get reached. This “price gouging for maximum profit” gets passed on to the un-knowledgeable consumer.
Solution: Limit the range in which buy and sell orders can be placed (tossing out a number here, say 35%). Once an established sell order is made, the buy and sell prices can’t move out of that 35% range (70% margin between buy and sell). As sales increase in price the target moves with it.
Example: A new item hits the market a bunch of players put in that dropped item into the market at all sorts of prices (we’ll say a range between 100g and 5g). Obviously the low sell offer will establish our range, kicking back all the sell orders beyond that range. Buy orders get put in too now, but we have an established target, they cannot be placed below 35%, nor can sell offers be placed higher than 35%. As new sell and buy prices get established that target fluctuates, which allows for increase and decreases in price, but not spiked prices beyond that range.
Now, in my mind, i envision it how the target price for gems works now. If i place an exchange offer, wait a few minutes, the price moves and i cannot make the exchange. So i know at least the system is capable (coded enough) to a least factor in that ability in tracking. Obviously, i’m not doing the math here, it could be 25% or 20% or 50%….
I dont see, how this would stop price spikes. Price spikes are usually caused by high demand and all your suggestion would do is concentrate sell listings around the actual price. But once the supply on the tp is used up, it wouldnt prevent the price to rise.
If your system was in place and wood costs 1s on average, so the minimum buy order i can put in is 65c and the highest price i can list it is 1.35s.
Now i am buying up wood because i think in a month or 2, wood will be in demand and will be worth 2s. Right now i have the possibility to post it at 2s, making it available supply for everybody. If i cant post it at 2s, i just hold on to it and wait until the price rises. Once it does, you wont have many listings between 1.35s and 2s and beyond to prevent an even higher price spike.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.