Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I didn’t know where was best to post it, so I open another thread here. If it is an issue for moderators, I’m completely OK with the merging of one thread in the other one.

My idea is that traders in GW2 are nothing more than parasites (while in gw1 they could bring added value because of their work, in gw2 they are useless because of TP), and they exploit the TP to get money out of the community.
Some do it a lot (way too much) and some are regular players who will trade a single precursor when they can do it.

This is why I think that items bought from TP shouldn’t be able to be sold again in TP. Would prevent parasite “traders”.

Eowyn

ps : my other thread with more explanation is in game suggestions, here : https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Items-from-Trading-Post-not-sellable-in-TP/first#post1134157

So you want to cross-post to get your message across?

I understand why you would like that, however it would reduce the value in merchanting, which is something that people enjoy doing. Additionally, you have to draw lines. What if I have X items and I buy more of X items. Which ones can I sell and can’t? What if I store them in my collectibles or stack them together? What happens if I use them to create more items?

It’s too much of a hassle to implement. There are those who will abuse markets, but that happens in real economies as well, and I don’t see that many people complaining to the government.

Not to be rude. But who exactly do you think would come out ahead in this new regulated environment?

Smart people who have already made massive amount by ‘manipulating’ the market, or you?

I recently posted a similar reply to the same idea, but I guess I will copy you and say it again, but shorter this time.

In addition to the issues Esplen has listed (very sound logic), you seem to fail to understand that preventing items from going back into the TP will result in a lesser quantity out there, in turn resulting in a greater demand, in turn creating a higher value. So what you are really petitioning for is a higher average market cost for all commonly traded goods. Are you sure that’s what you want?

Besides, I think if you actually understood and KNEW how to profit of the TP, you probably would. My best guess is that you think so lowly of them because they are clearly benefiting, and you are not…but that’s not really their fault. I still think that the one thing that would ultimately save everyone money (those of you trying to get that legendary especially) would be improving drop rate. Ultimately it’s the drop rate that determines the value, not the traders.

Mandar.9813:

I recently posted a similar reply to the same idea, but I guess I will copy you and say it again, but shorter this time.

In addition to the issues Esplen has listed (very sound logic), you seem to fail to understand that preventing items from going back into the TP will result in a lesser quantity out there, in turn resulting in a greater demand, in turn creating a higher value. So what you are really petitioning for is a higher average market cost for all commonly traded goods. Are you sure that’s what you want?

Besides, I think if you actually understood and KNEW how to profit of the TP, you probably would. My best guess is that you think so lowly of them because they are clearly benefiting, and you are not…but that’s not really their fault. I still think that the one thing that would ultimately save everyone money (those of you trying to get that legendary especially) would be improving drop rate. Ultimately it’s the drop rate that determines the value, not the traders.

Albeit, I do dislike the people who profit off of others’ stupidity, cough people who use threads in these sections to inflate prices cough.

I, personally, have been making all my money off of the trade post, but I’m merely turning one object into another, which benefits people who wants the other object.

I also make a lot of money of the TP. I do it buy making it cheaper to buy it now and more lucrative to sell it now.

So you want to cross-post to get your message across?

I’m sorry. Just as I explained in my 1st message, I didn’t know where to put it. It’s a shame, cause I have made an error : instead of copy-pasting the same text, I have made a summary —-> the other thread was missed, this one got replies, and pl on this one didn’t read the full explanation in the other one :’(

I understand why you would like that, however it would reduce the value in merchanting, which is something that people enjoy doing. Additionally, you have to draw lines. What if I have X items and I buy more of X items. Which ones can I sell and can’t? What if I store them in my collectibles or stack them together? What happens if I use them to create more items?

Yes, you have to draw lines. I agree with that. I’m just giving an idea, and if it’s good enough, Anet will deal with the detail (I could explain all details here, but each could be subject to controversy, and I only want to discuss the main idea. And in any case, Anet devs would change my theory to their own view, so details are not important here)
My idea was about all items, but it could be restricted to some categories that are exploited. Also, my idea was mostly about items that you just buy and sell for a higher price. So, no “create more items” issue. As explained in my other thread, the “added value” brought by traders is an important notion, and if you make another item, there is one. If you just remove some items from TP and put them back later, you are just a parasite.
About stacks : you are right, I didn’t think of it. The simplest way would be to remove stackable items from the items that can’t be sold again.

It’s too much of a hassle to implement. There are those who will abuse markets, but that happens in real economies as well, and I don’t see that many people complaining to the government.

- Are you a CS engeneer ? I am. I can have my own idea about how hard it would be to implement. But even having professional experience in the matter, I will not say my opinion here : depending on how things are coded, the “hassle” can be VERY different than what you think. I have seen lots of small changed that looked like “oh it can be done in 5 minutes” be way hard because the impacted code was included in a wider context, and lost of big “oh, this will be very hard” result in a 10 minutes work because there were 2 functions implemented and you only had to change a call to use the other one.
In any case, Anet engeneers are the only ones who can really know what will be time needed to implement something. The GW2 designers/ Anet managers are the only ones who can decide which ideas have priority, given the time estimated by engeneers. We, players, should not say “oh I don’t want this because there is that other idea that is much more urgent for me and I don’t want Anet to spend time on this one instead of the other”. We should just give opinion about the idea itself, and Anet will decide priority.

- People manipulating markets IRL are bad too (well, it’s a very complex subject irl, not everything is bad, not everything is good), the difference is that in game the issue is simpler and can be handled “easily” and I explained, which can not be done irl. And yes, there are people complaining. And also, in case you don’t know, some manipulations irl resulted in lots of economy trouble.

Not to be rude. But who exactly do you think would come out ahead in this new regulated environment?

Smart people who have already made massive amount by ‘manipulating’ the market, or you?

The idea is not to have new people “coming out ahead”. I admit that those who already exploited a lot will be ahead … and my idea is just to put an end to this exploiting, so that the ones who already exploited will not exploit more, and no other ppl will begin doing it.
AND there is huge difference between exploiting and being smart. I have not done this, even if I know how to and I could have benefit (2 weeks ago I had enough money to buy a mid price precursor, could have bought it and sold now for example. Or I would use gems to get money, begin exploiting, and buy my gems again with part of the profit …). Not doing it is a choice, because I consider this as exploiting, as being a parasite to the economy.

you seem to fail to understand that preventing items from going back into the TP will result in a lesser quantity out there, in turn resulting in a greater demand, in turn creating a higher value. So what you are really petitioning for is a higher average market cost for all commonly traded goods. Are you sure that’s what you want?

I don’t fail to understand anything here. You may do ?
I’ll try to explain : the total quantity if the loot quantity. Whatever happens to the TP, the total amount of items in the game will be the same.
Also, if you think that there will be less items in tp as a result, you may not have understood my idea (or my initial explanation wasn’t good enough – I’m not English speaking native —> same result). There would be no limit to the selling of items. There would be one for those who buy them, because they will not sell again. Once people know how it works, they will stop buying items that they don’t need, because they know that they will not be able to sell them again. It only prevents the exploit “I buy what I don’t need and I sell it for a higher price later”.
If there are lots of cases where people buy an item that they really need, and sell it later, and I don’t know of this cases, please explain them. But if they exist, they are probably not a real argument against my idea, but merely a reason to create adjustments in it so that we eliminate the issue.

Besides, I think if you actually understood and KNEW how to profit of the TP, you probably would. My best guess is that you think so lowly of them because they are clearly benefiting, and you are not…but that’s not really their fault. I still think that the one thing that would ultimately save everyone money (those of you trying to get that legendary especially) would be improving drop rate. Ultimately it’s the drop rate that determines the value, not the traders.

As I explained above, I KNOW how to profit, and I choose not to. This is being a parasite, this is exploiting, and even if it wans’t, I wouldn’t feel the same sartisfaction when I reach one of my goals if I have done it by manipulating the TP instead of actually playing (this is just a personal opinion about what I need to be happy to have done something).
Improving drop rates wouldn’t be a nice solution imho. And I’m not complaining about the prices themselves, just about the people who exploit TP and parasite economy.

I, personally, have been making all my money off of the trade post, but I’m merely turning one object into another, which benefits people who wants the other object.3

So, you are not a object of my wrath ^^ You bring added value, this is not being a parasite :-)

I also make a lot of money of the TP. I do it buy making it cheaper to buy it now and more lucrative to sell it now.

I am not sure that I understand your sentence. But this is probably exactly the behaviour that I’d like Anet to stop.

Sorry for the incredibly long post, I wanted to reply to everyone and try to be clear about my idea and why I reject some arguments here

Eowin Of Rohan.2619:

Hi,

My idea is that traders in GW2 are nothing more than parasites (while in gw1 they could bring added value because of their work, in gw2 they are useless because of TP), and they exploit the TP to get money out of the community.

Read till here.
Shook my head and laughed at just another person who thinks that everyone has to play the game the way they want to due to their own lack/unwillignness to accept that other people enjoy MMOs in different ways.

You have traders in every single MMO with a tradeingpost/ah/galactic market. I espescially liked the insult you out in there.

I am not sure that I understand your sentence. But this is probably exactly the behaviour that I’d like Anet to stop.

He means he filp items, he post buy order at price higher than the current one and sell cheaper than the lowest sell price. If the margin is higher than the 15% fee you can make money, investing your time and risking your money (the price might drop).
This is how people make money in RL too, i dont see any parasitic behaviour. May be there should be no merchants IRL too or they have to sell at the price they bought the goods.
Probably you mean cornering the market for specific items such as precursors, lodestones or silver doubloons? I wouldnt agree too, most of the items can be made via mystic forge. The price cant go higher than the (mats X probability). I would gladly put buy orders for 1500+ rare greatswords and take my chances at the mystic toilet (500+ attempts) than pay 500+ gold for Dusk.

@goldi.3129

Nice. Cause now I’m laughing a lot too !
The same stupid argument that all exploiters, botter, and any prohibeted behaviour guys, use again and again until they get banned.
The topic here isn’t about a punishable behaviour, but the argument is still stupid.

There are lots and lots of ways of playing gw other than mine, without having to exploit anything. And if people really only enjoy manipulating market to get money without playing the game, why don’t they play an economy game instead of a mmo, where only plain bad faith and hypocrisy can let them say that they just have their own way of playing the game. And the fact that it exists everywhere is not an argument either. Botters exist everywhere, and everyone agrees that they are bad.
Please use real arguments to explain me WHY this behaviour is legitimate, and isn’t bad at all for the economy/the community.
Oh, and forgot … you dared say “I only read 3 lines of you posts, not any of your arguments explaining why you think that this is bad” … so there is not even any discussion, a guy who doesn’t read and understand other’s arguments can only be wrong.
People who posted before you had arguments. Real ones. Which is why I made a real response, instead of calling them stupid like i’m doing with you.

@SET : anything involving crafthing or mystic forge isn’t the topic : as I explained earlier, I have no problem with that :-) . You add value because of the time you spend, or the craft profession you use, or the skill points (or other soul/account bound things) you add, or the risk you take, or at least the time needed (see your example about 1500 rares to try and get a precursor).
The only behavior I really want to stop is the one where you buy something and sell that exact same thing later for a higher price. (and I knew before I posted that most of the guys who would reply would be the ones who exploit this, so I’ll be alone vs all no matter what arguments I can use ^^)

Eowin Of Rohan.2619:

@goldi.3129

Nice. Cause now I’m laughing a lot too !
The same stupid argument that all exploiters, botter, and any prohibeted behaviour guys, use again and again until they get banned.
The topic here isn’t about a punishable behaviour, but the argument is still stupid.

There are lots and lots of ways of playing gw other than mine, without having to exploit anything. And if people really only enjoy manipulating market to get money without playing the game, why don’t they play an economy game instead of a mmo, where only plain bad faith and hypocrisy can let them say that they just have their own way of playing the game. And the fact that it exists everywhere is not an argument either. Botters exist everywhere, and everyone agrees that they are bad.
Please use real arguments to explain me WHY this behaviour is legitimate, and isn’t bad at all for the economy/the community.
Oh, and forgot … you dared say “I only read 3 lines of you posts, not any of your arguments explaining why you think that this is bad” … so there is not even any discussion, a guy who doesn’t read and understand other’s arguments can only be wrong.
People who posted before you had arguments. Real ones. Which is why I made a real response, instead of calling them stupid like i’m doing with you.

@SET : anything involving crafthing or mystic forge isn’t the topic : as I explained earlier, I have no problem with that :-) . You add value because of the time you spend, or the craft profession you use, or the skill points (or other soul/account bound things) you add, or the risk you take, or at least the time needed (see your example about 1500 rares to try and get a precursor).
The only behavior I really want to stop is the one where you buy something and sell that exact same thing later for a higher price. (and I knew before I posted that most of the guys who would reply would be the ones who exploit this, so I’ll be alone vs all no matter what arguments I can use ^^)

So playing the market is exploiting now. It gets better and better. You are talking about arguments and yet you have none. Not a single one.

A working economy of supply and demand is part of every MMO. That requires a central place where people sell and buy goods. If some people find playing the economic part of the game more interesting than playing the hacking&slaying part of it than what? See. Beside insults you have nothing beside: “But its bad!”.

And your argument of time and value is that of someone who has too much time and wants time to be the only factor to mean anything. Play an Asiagrinder if you like but don’t insult people from your imaginary high horse with your complete lack of knowledge of MMOs and also the real world- as several people have pointed out, the markets in the real world behave exactly the same way.

edit
And no I won’t bother in earnest with someone who throws insults around as freely as you do. And the post of you I quoted displayed exactly what you promised in the first post. Nothing in terms of arguments. This is a game and it has several ways to be played. If you don’t like some of the ways don’t play them. But do not dictate others how the game is supposed to be played in your oppinion. You can play a singleplayer game if you want to know esxactly what you can expect.

Also look up the definition of an exploit in regards of games (espescially MMOs) before embarassing yourself any further.

Traders such as myself increase the value of your gold. Every time i trade, 15% of that gold is out of the game. That is useful.

I have lots of arguments, but you didn’t read them , you said it. And I call it exploiting because I think it is, not because I think it is part of what Anet calls “exploiting”.
And you didn’t understand my argument about added value. You’re compltely changing what I say in order to be able to reply … if you were not of complete bad faith you would have seen that my argument isn’t about time. It is about added value. And I told SEVFERAL examples of why crafting/forge can have added value (while just selling something that you bought earlier doesn’t have any), time only being one of them.
I NEVER said that I want time to be the only factor of anything. So don’t argue against something that I didn’t ever say.

And "A working economy of supply and demand is part of every MMO. " is completely true. But it doesn’t need parasites that exploit that supply/demand system to gain profit out of nowhere.

I totally support this, but partially.
Let traders be traders, to a certain extent.

Do not allow repost of high end items such as lodestones and precursors.
This is really all about very specific fluctuating items rather than the whole system.

However… we do have cases such as when massive bots bans are announced and people admit that they bought stacks of mats upon stacks only to resell later, while Mandar.9813 tried to point out that not allowing to resell will result in less stock – the case I pointed out will create exactly that, and only thanks to traders who wish to make profit upon creating a fake supply / demand.

Feel free to correct me if you think I was wrong.

Yawn. Someone who spends the time to gather materials and forge something should be rewarded higher than someone who spends time studying markets… Great argument.

Again different ways to play the game ( I could add grinding dungeons etc etc.). All completely legit.

And in every MMO you have traders. In every MMO you have AH fees. See skys post.
I don’t even want to start imagine what you would say against OPEC, deBeers etc with your oppinion of “parasites” and “exploits”.

So again to sum it up your ONLY argument is “My way of how the game should be played and add rewards”.

Eowin Of Rohan.2619:

My idea is that traders in GW2 are nothing more than parasites (while in gw1 they could bring added value because of their work, in gw2 they are useless because of TP), and they exploit the TP to get money out of the community.

They aren’t useless. They provide a significant bridge between people who want to sell instantly and people who want to buy instantly. They also help the GW2 economy by increasing the amount that goes to the sales tax goldsink and thus reducing inflation.

goldi
→ you still didn’t read and understand my arguments, you’re only basing your talk on a miscomprehension of my 1st reply to you.
→ you repeat arguments that i already replied to
→ as I said, ppl before you had arguments, real ones, so i’m not just hermetic to arguments against me

Firegoth → tyvm for support :-) You may be right in saying that this should be limited to certains precise categories of items that are exploited in a bad way. And your solution would avoid punishing those who are in the case described by Carzor (or ending the benefits of this case).

Carzot : good arguments. I didn’t think about this, and it true for example for the “wtb 300x same armor”, but probably not for items listed by Firegoth. But I don’t really think that the “help ppl who want to sell instantly” has a really big impact from traders (and don’t understand about buying instantly).
Gold sink : true too. 2 times in TP = 2x gold sink. Nice for the “lots of small items”, but the restriction on reselling of some precise items would not affect it so much.

In a conclusion, after reading Carzor and Firegoth ’s messages, I agree that the initial idea may not be completely good.
Now the idea is : restain the trading of a to-be-defined list of items (containing precursors) in order to avoid parasites/exploiting; for example by making those items unable to be sold again through TP if they were bought from TP.

Eowin Of Rohan.2619:

Hi,
My idea is that traders in GW2 are nothing more than parasites, and they exploit the TP to get money out of the community.

False. Traders exist to ensure efficient allocation of resources. The chief resource we allocate is time: I make it chaper to buy it now, more lucrative to sell it now. Speculators make it cheaper to buy in the future, more lucrative to farm now. Absent a system where everything is available in unlimited quantities on demand from NPC vendors, traders are necessary for getting things from when they are to when they need to be. (“Where” doesn’t enter into it, due to the geographic unity of the BLTC.)

Eowin Of Rohan.2619:

This is why I think that items bought from TP shouldn’t be able to be sold again in TP. Would prevent parasite “traders”.

The actual effect of this action would be to reduce the availability of items. Every purchase on the TP would be an act of consumption. There would be nobody bidding up the buy price and down the sell prices of crafted items, making the job harder for people leveling their crafting and people gearing up as they level. There would be nobody ensuring that things like precursors are priced according to their actual supply and demand, making them cheaper than they should be, reducing incentives to seek out more of them, resulting in a lower overall supply and therefore fewer players who have the opportunity to acquire legendaries. There would be nobody conserving holiday event resources, resulting in lower availability later in the year.

Finally, remember that with every transaction, traders lower the gold supply, raising the value of every gold piece in the game. This raises the value of gold drops in the field, making things easier for those who are just playing the game.

In short, the effect of your suggestion would be to impoverish the playerbase.

It would definitely reduce trading, and if this is your goal, your suggestion is as effective as it is vicious.

I honestly think the trading post is still tainted by the massive oversupply of cheap goods produced by the bots which were allowed to run rampant for so long. The end result being that screwing around on the tp is many times more lucrative than farming, or any other method of playing the game for that matter, which I guess is where a lot of the resentment comes from.

And “exploit” is a matter of semantics. Of course traders “exploit” the market, just as pvper’s “exploit” their opponents weaknesses and farmers “exploit” the best farming spots.

Tarvok, did you read anything else than my first paragraph before posting ? Did you go and read my longer explanation in the other thread, and most important, did you read all the posts above yours ?
I think you didn’t, because some parts in your message show that you don’t know what I explained earlier or what other players said.

1st part of your message : I never talked about npc vendors, not about infinite supply !! Your logic seems right, but you forget things that imply that what you say is wrong. Do you really think that you make things more lucrative to farm now and cheaper in the future ? It works only if there is just 1 guy trading something 1 time. But the trade is continuous. In the future, another trader will buy items when you sell yours. AND, you forget that you don’t change the total amount to items at all. So if you remove an item now, that’s 1 less item that can be bought by someone who actually needs it, and when you put it back, someone who actually needs it will be able to buy (maybe not the same “someone”). If you don’t do anything, the 1st guy will buy what he needs, and later the second guy will buy the more expansive one that would have been bought by the 1st one if you trade.
In any case, there is not even a need to analyse supply, demand, items stream … just see that you don’t change the number of items sold and you don’t change the number of items needed. But, you still earn 50G (example). This 50g is not a benefit for anyone else than you. This is what I call being a parasite, even if I know that the term will shock actual traders.
You say “trader are necessary …” . If you read my longer explanation, you’ll find what you talk about … in the gw1 examples where I state that they are useful. Yes, traders in gw1 gathered items, spent lots of their time, so other players could easily find what they were looking for (ok for higher price, but less time wasted in kamadan). But in GW2, there is something call the Trading Post. If you want something you just open, search, and buy. If you want to sell something, you just open a offer your item. Where are traders needed in this process ?
You say that they bring items to the time when they are needed … in the scenario that I’d like to see, in which some items can’t be sold several times through TP, people buy item A because they need it. The number of people that will need A is the same whether there is a trader or not. The number of people looting A and selling it is the same too. If the item has no supply issue, you’re just generating inflation for your profit. If there is a “just in time production” (= precursors), you remove one so 1 player can’t get what he needs, and you sell it later so 1 other player gets it instead of the 1st one. In any case, I say it again, to total amount to A sold is the same so you don’t add a convenient supply at a given time -> you only move the supply to another time.

I’ve probably said several times the same things, I hope this was clear enough (I’m tired, and once again not english speaking native ^^)

[arg I wrote more than 5000 characters xD – lets do 2 messages]

2nd part of your message : another trader explained this before you. And I have already answered (which is why I said that I think that you didn’t read the thread). and once again, there will not be any lower availability, since the total amount of supply will not change (at most if someone buys something by mistake ? But I don’t think that this case is really representative of the overall market ^^ People are careful when 400g are at risk).
And someone else (Firegoth) confirmed my view about this : there would be no lower supply. It’s nonsense.

Last : about traders lowering the gold supply. This is true. But, how can this benefit to the community ? You say that is raises the value of items that we loot. You’re right. But it also raises the value of items that we have to buy. So, no impact on our buying power. No “impoverishment of the playerbase”.
Worse : let’s say that items that can be sold at TP (I mean, for a higher price than at merchant : mats, golds, exotics, some greens, …..) are category A. Items that are usually sold to npc (grey, white, blue items and most greens) are category B.
Let call C the coefficient of price augmentation caused by traders.
The money earned by “regular” players = B*(constant price) + A*C
The money that we have to spend = (Items I buy)*C

As you can see, there is a problem : money spend is risen by C, and only a part (the bigger one, but not -that- big) of the money earned is risen by C. The difference ( = (C-1)*(value of items sold to merchants) ) is what you earn as trader : the money you get doesn’t appear out of nowhere. I know that some money is spent at merchants, but probably less than the money earned from selling items to them (once again, money earned by traders can’t be magically generated).
And, in any wase you don’t change the total amount of money in the game because of this : the difference is in your bank. Unless you plan on extracting money from the community and not spend it ?
In this idea, Carzot had a better argument : the consequence of a trader selling something that he bought earlier is that the 15% commission of the black lion company will occur twice. So, less money in the game, less inflation (which is good, since inflation can’t be compensated by the items looted and sold at TP as I just explained, because part of our money is a fix amount that comes from npc merchants). In that case, I had to admit that he trader impact is positive.
Which is why I wrote the post just above yours to revise my idea, taking into account that Firegoth and Carzot said :-)

ty for reading and understanding

Eowyn

I honestly think the trading post is still tainted by the massive oversupply of cheap goods produced by the bots which were allowed to run rampant for so long. The end result being that screwing around on the tp is many times more lucrative than farming, or any other method of playing the game for that matter, which I guess is where a lot of the resentment comes from.

And “exploit” is a matter of semantics. Of course traders “exploit” the market, just as pvper’s “exploit” their opponents weaknesses and farmers “exploit” the best farming spots.

ty for your message

I agree that bots are bad, much much worse than any trader will ever be. They seem to have greatly decreased in number, but there are still probably many.
Yes, part of the resentment comes from the fact that “screwing around on the tp is many times more lucrative than farming, or any other method of playing the game for that matter”. But this would only be a personal issue, and I would not open this thread for this (and if it was only this, I would exploit tp too^^). As explained earlier the reasons are wider, I don’t think that it’s OK of players get lots of money solely by creating inflation on items that they buy without need and sell later (again, other forms including craft/forge are not an issue imho).

Your explantation about the word “exploit” is what I meant when I said “And I call it exploiting because I think it is, not because I think it is part of what Anet calls “exploiting”.”, but your explanation is way better than mine ^^. The difference may be that I’m still using the term “exploit” in a pejorative way, while in your definition it isn’t necessarily pejorative.

According to you guys – the economy and the game as a whole would crash without you.

Traders coming up with excuses from all over the rainbow to justify an unethical fake supply / demand.
You guys deserve a medal, no, two actually.

While there are definitely some people out there engaging in what I’d consider unethical practices I dont think its fair to condemn traders as a whole. Speculative day trading does benefit the market in some ways. Wikipedia does a better job explaining it than I could http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation#The_economic_benefits_of_speculation

Brian.9125:

While there are definitely some people out there engaging in what I’d consider unethical practices I dont think its fair to condemn traders as a whole. Speculative day trading does benefit the market in some ways. Wikipedia does a better job explaining it than I could http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculation#The_economic_benefits_of_speculation

Would like to direct you to this topic:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Buy-Armored-Scales/first#post1146808

Disgraceful.

Firegoth.6427:

According to you guys – the economy and the game as a whole would crash without you.

Traders coming up with excuses from all over the rainbow to justify an unethical fake supply / demand.
You guys deserve a medal, no, two actually.

Like several people have already pointed out- the tp is the biggest money sink in the game. The amount of money in the game is constantly rising.

Contrary to other games there are no required money sinks in the game (In almost all games those money sinks come in the form of mounts and the required skills to use them).

So take a minute and imagine how the market would act if people would only buy only what they could use, the prizes wouldn’t be regulated (traders buying undderprized goods etc.) and the amount of trading would have a drastic decline in general.

PS: No I don’t bother responding to the OP anyone