Guild Wars 2

Noerknhar.3826:

My answer would be Tetris as it was the only perfect balanced game I’ve ever seen. I get your point while I also guess you misunderstood me. Of course, GW2 came out 6 months ago. That makes those 2months look pretty short in comparison. I also hope that the polishing will make this great game even better, but in the mean time it’s about grind, grind, grind or playing the TP.

Stopping you right here. GW2 came out in mid-August, which was 5 months ago.
Semantics.

I think it is also important that enough people complain about those facts in the forums. I also think that it is more important to fix bugs and get your hands on broken things, mechanics or design principles than to implement new events every 2 weeks or so. But that is my personal thinking about priorities and I guess it won’t affect the devs’.

But I guess we’re a bit off topic right now.

Inflation isn’t a bug or broken mechanics or design principles. The only way to get rid of inflation is to have a set amount of gold circulating at any given time with no influence from anything else.

To give you an example of a system like this (using no real set laws or game) the game would have a system similar to as follows…

• Fresh game with 100,000,000 gold dispersed across NPC’s and mobs alike (less in non-humanoid mobs to account for realisticality, although allow some in chests to compensate/accommodate).
• Players start playing game, gathering items and gold from mobs.
• Players sell items to NPC’s gathering some of each NPC’s gold count.
• Players buy from NPC’s giving to each NPC’s gold count.
• NPC’s/Players get attacked and killed, mobs gain gold.

What would this do?

• No new gold would enter the economy, all the gold is limited.
• Inflation would get hindered.~(More expanded on later)

What problems can arise?

• Players stockpiling gold would cause inflation on high-end/tier objects while deflating low-end/tier objects. (I may be wrong on this one, but it sounds sound to me. I am no economic major, so feel free to prove me wrong.)

This would happen due to less gold circulating, therefore less gold being used to buy low-end/tier items. For high-end/tier items, the stockpiling would probably be BECAUSE of said items.

• No new gold enters the economy. New players will have a hard time gaining gold once the “economy” settles.

“Economy settles” when most NPC’s run dry, most mobs run dry, and there are very few ways of gathering gold other than by other players. This also creates a dry and empty economy, void of any activity until the game maker decides to release a gold sink (in this case, method of spending gold to get the economy moving again).

Why will inflation be hindered?

Inflation is caused by gold/money/currency entering the market. Say 1/3 of all players run one dungeon every day. If there are 100,000 active players, that means that 33,333 players are doing a dungeon. Each of those players are getting 41s+ (final boss loot + finish loot).

Again, this is a rough sketch of inflation, as each dungeon run nets more than 41s, especially when adding in Omnomberry Bars and other whatnots.

Back to the sketch, that means that every day, 1366653s is entering the economy.
This is the equivalent of 13,666g 53s entering the economy every day.

Now, the active playerbase of GW2 is well over 100,000 and the active dungeon community is well over 33,333. They also run more than 1 dungeon a day.

If you want inflation to stop, you should address other issues than bots and market manipulation; namely gold gain versus money sinks.

Onto money sinks:

This is the only way to attack inflation. Creating systems where the player benefits from SPENDING their money in a way that prevents it from circulating. Salvage Kits are one method. Gold —> Gems are another method. TP tax is another one. They are, indeed, not enough. If you can think of a method that will keep the game intriguing, fun, unique and not break it, while combating inflation, feel free to post that here or in the suggestions section, but just complaining about inflation for the wrong reasons will get nobody anywhere.

tldr; Don’t roll Skritt when you can be Asuran. (RP and forum metaphorical joke.)

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

The inflation on gold/gem is getting worse. The prices are constantly going up and the ratio between gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold is slowly moving appart.

Also I have, on several occasions, observed that mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong.

You’re wrong on two issues.

1) Inflation happens over time. The dollar in 1970 is not the same as a dollar in 1975, 1980, 1985, etc. It’s not getting worse, it’s just running it’s normal course.

2) There is no market manipulation.

0_o ???

1) Have you ever wondered what is causing the dollar value to change? One or several aspects of the economy get manipulated by individuals/groups and eventually, over time, the economy has to ‘adjust’, or as you said “…it’s just running it’s normal course.”.

2) Refer to 1)

Also, I’m still waiting on an awser to this – “On several occasions I have observed the mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong”

So please, anyone, prove me wrong this is not part of market manipulation.

So… you’re saying inflation in the real world is cause by a person or a group of people manipulating the market? Must be them Illuminati eh?

actually inflation is caused by a group of people manipulating the market. Its government sanctioned, because in general its better that thing inflate in a controlled manner than if they are too volatile, and the worse thing for governments is generally if money deflates (supposedly) So yeah irl, inflation is essentially caused and promoted by a group of people manipulating the market.

This game is a bit different though, in that it is basically meant to inflate. (albeit controlled) Now i wouldnt say market manipulators exactly cause inflation, they exists, but most of what they do is transfer wealth to themselves, probably overall, they slow inflation, because they overall make money by taking money from a lot of other people. Overall, people have less money because some people have a lot more money.

the problem isnt exactly inflation with them, its more about the fact that the disparity in wealth makes it less and less likely that anyone can get something high end, that can be sold, without a strong participation in the money game.

Esplen.3940:

Noerknhar.3826:

My answer would be Tetris as it was the only perfect balanced game I’ve ever seen. I get your point while I also guess you misunderstood me. Of course, GW2 came out 6 months ago. That makes those 2months look pretty short in comparison. I also hope that the polishing will make this great game even better, but in the mean time it’s about grind, grind, grind or playing the TP.

Stopping you right here. GW2 came out in mid-August, which was 5 months ago.
Semantics.

I think it is also important that enough people complain about those facts in the forums. I also think that it is more important to fix bugs and get your hands on broken things, mechanics or design principles than to implement new events every 2 weeks or so. But that is my personal thinking about priorities and I guess it won’t affect the devs’.

But I guess we’re a bit off topic right now.

Inflation isn’t a bug or broken mechanics or design principles. The only way to get rid of inflation is to have a set amount of gold circulating at any given time with no influence from anything else.

To give you an example of a system like this (using no real set laws or game) the game would have a system similar to as follows…

• Fresh game with 100,000,000 gold dispersed across NPC’s and mobs alike (less in non-humanoid mobs to account for realisticality, although allow some in chests to compensate/accommodate).
• Players start playing game, gathering items and gold from mobs.
• Players sell items to NPC’s gathering some of each NPC’s gold count.
• Players buy from NPC’s giving to each NPC’s gold count.
• NPC’s/Players get attacked and killed, mobs gain gold.

What would this do?

• No new gold would enter the economy, all the gold is limited.
• Inflation would get hindered.~(More expanded on later)

What problems can arise?

• Players stockpiling gold would cause inflation on high-end/tier objects while deflating low-end/tier objects. (I may be wrong on this one, but it sounds sound to me. I am no economic major, so feel free to prove me wrong.)

This would happen due to less gold circulating, therefore less gold being used to buy low-end/tier items. For high-end/tier items, the stockpiling would probably be BECAUSE of said items.

• No new gold enters the economy. New players will have a hard time gaining gold once the “economy” settles.

“Economy settles” when most NPC’s run dry, most mobs run dry, and there are very few ways of gathering gold other than by other players. This also creates a dry and empty economy, void of any activity until the game maker decides to release a gold sink (in this case, method of spending gold to get the economy moving again).

Why will inflation be hindered?

Inflation is caused by gold/money/currency entering the market. Say 1/3 of all players run one dungeon every day. If there are 100,000 active players, that means that 33,333 players are doing a dungeon. Each of those players are getting 41s+ (final boss loot + finish loot).

Again, this is a rough sketch of inflation, as each dungeon run nets more than 41s, especially when adding in Omnomberry Bars and other whatnots.

Back to the sketch, that means that every day, 1366653s is entering the economy.
This is the equivalent of 13,666g 53s entering the economy every day.

Now, the active playerbase of GW2 is well over 100,000 and the active dungeon community is well over 33,333. They also run more than 1 dungeon a day.

If you want inflation to stop, you should address other issues than bots and market manipulation; namely gold gain versus money sinks.

Onto money sinks:

This is the only way to attack inflation. Creating systems where the player benefits from SPENDING their money in a way that prevents it from circulating. Salvage Kits are one method. Gold —> Gems are another method. TP tax is another one. They are, indeed, not enough. If you can think of a method that will keep the game intriguing, fun, unique and not break it, while combating inflation, feel free to post that here or in the suggestions section, but just complaining about inflation for the wrong reasons will get nobody anywhere.

tldr; Don’t roll Skritt when you can be Asuran. (RP and forum metaphorical joke.)

Are you Austrian Economics based?

Because you take on only one thing that causes inflation. And in the real world that sort of inflation can be controlled a little bit.

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

The inflation on gold/gem is getting worse. The prices are constantly going up and the ratio between gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold is slowly moving appart.

Also I have, on several occasions, observed that mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong.

You’re wrong on two issues.

1) Inflation happens over time. The dollar in 1970 is not the same as a dollar in 1975, 1980, 1985, etc. It’s not getting worse, it’s just running it’s normal course.

2) There is no market manipulation.

0_o ???

1) Have you ever wondered what is causing the dollar value to change? One or several aspects of the economy get manipulated by individuals/groups and eventually, over time, the economy has to ‘adjust’, or as you said “…it’s just running it’s normal course.”.

2) Refer to 1)

Also, I’m still waiting on an awser to this – “On several occasions I have observed the mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong”

So please, anyone, prove me wrong this is not part of market manipulation.

So… you’re saying inflation in the real world is cause by a person or a group of people manipulating the market? Must be them Illuminati eh?

actually inflation is caused by a group of people manipulating the market. Its government sanctioned, because in general its better that thing inflate in a controlled manner than if they are too volatile, and the worse thing for governments is generally if money deflates (supposedly) So yeah irl, inflation is essentially caused and promoted by a group of people manipulating the market.

This game is a bit different though, in that it is basically meant to inflate. (albeit controlled) Now i wouldnt say market manipulators exactly cause inflation, they exists, but most of what they do is transfer wealth to themselves, probably overall, they slow inflation, because they overall make money by taking money from a lot of other people. Overall, people have less money because some people have a lot more money.

the problem isnt exactly inflation with them, its more about the fact that the disparity in wealth makes it less and less likely that anyone can get something high end, that can be sold, without a strong participation in the money game.

This is wrong on a few levels.

1) Inflation reduces the purchasing power of everyone. Deflation actually expands a person’s purchasing power.
2) Government has some control over inflation. Which is why in the real world inflation hasn’t gotten out of hand in the U.S. It is not “sanctioned” per se. Unemployment levels affect inflation. Investing does. Too much “overheating” by the investors…
3) Market manipulators do not have an infinite amount of market power to keep price levels rising for long periods of time as long as there are suppliers of whatever market they are in. There are other reasons for inflation…
4) Good ole supply and demand has an effect on inflation. When production levels (supply) falls, price levels begin to rise.

It is important to realize that strictly speaking (from an economy textbook point of view), GW2 does not have a currency, only a series of commodities. Even if one of these commodities shares the outwards appearance of what we would recognize as a currency in the real world, it would be a grave mistake to assume GW2 gold was a currency.

How value is created in GW2 also fundamentally differs from the real world. Meaning any assumptions have to be based on those ingame freakanomics rather than direct ports of real life economic theorems.

The same goes for supply & demand. It is one factor of many in the economy and by far not the most important one.

If you want to “get rich” in GW2 you mustn’t allow yourself to get fooled by outward appearances and assumptions from 8th grade school teachers. Gold is not a currency, supply and demand do not regulate the GW2 market. There are other factors which influence prices way more. There is even one factor which originates from the way the game is programmed and is linked to a programming problem more than an economic problem. I am not going to complain about it, since I got “rich” off it.

Chance are that if you think in terms of “supply&demand” and “market manipulation”, you haven’t started looking at the type of product being on sale really.

Ensign.2189:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Really? It’s a bug?

It’s what common graphing applications do with missing data when plotting a time series. GW2Spidy does the exact same thing when it has downtime (like, well, earlier today).

Death Reincarnated.3570:

“gradient”

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Lmao, if you guys want to get all particular. Take the gradient of a line in two dimensions.

It’s silly to argue over this. Anyone with some mathematics background knew what he said.

SteepledHat.1345:

Lmao, if you guys want to get all particular. Take the gradient of a line in two dimensions.

It’s silly to argue over this. Anyone with some mathematics background knew what he said.

Arguing the definition of a gradient is detracting from the original point. Which is this his posts are incoherent, hard to understand, and could’ve easily gotten his ideas across (this straight line on the plot is wierd!) without delving into a discussion about trendlines and slopes.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Are you Austrian Economics based?

Because you take on only one thing that causes inflation. And in the real world that sort of inflation can be controlled a little bit.

No, but I’m talking economics in relativity to gaming and theoretical markets based off of a gaming perspective/world.

SteepledHat.1345:

Lmao, if you guys want to get all particular. Take the gradient of a line in two dimensions.

Best I can tell, the answer you’re looking for is k u^^ over the entire domain, where u^^ is the unit vector parallel to the line, and k is the slope of the line with respect to that unit vector (is k supposed to be 0? It is unclear). I’m having to guess at intent, as no relation was specified and ‘a line in two dimensions’ is ambiguous.

I guess in the strictest sense, your statement is technobabble, and an excellent reason why you should not use technical jargon any more than is necessary.

Generaly, in mathematics anyone talking about “slope” is referring to the tangent at a particular point of a curved line or function, where as “gradient” tends to refer to a straight line and its magnitude.

Because I have delt with mathematics most of my life, I tend use the term “gradient” when refering to straight lines because of y= m x + c. Both terms are interchangeable and as SteepledHat.1345 said, anyone with general maths knowledge would not argue whether its “slope” or “gradient”, especially when discussing a straight line.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

This is wrong on a few levels.

1) Inflation reduces the purchasing power of everyone. Deflation actually expands a person’s purchasing power.

Inflation does not reduce a person’s purchasing power, it reduces a currency’s purchasing power. That’s a very important distinction. To use a Guild Wars 2 example, the effect of inflation of the “coin” currency would cause the coin players hold to lose purchasing power. However, a character that had little or no coin would not see their purchasing power reduced. In fact, inflation in coin could actually increase a person’s purchasing power under very specific circumstances.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

3) Market manipulators do not have an infinite amount of market power to keep price levels rising for long periods of time as long as there are suppliers of whatever market they are in. There are other reasons for inflation…

“Market manipulators” have little to no influence over inflation. Really, the only meaningful influence they could directly hold is if their coin holdings are significant enough to impact the average “savings rate” game-wide.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

4) Good ole supply and demand has an effect on inflation. When production levels (supply) falls, price levels begin to rise.

People keep coming back to this inaccurate common belief about inflation. Inflation and rising prices are not the same thing. A supply shift is a supply shift. Yes, a downward supply shift will cause an upward movement in price. But this is not inflation. Inflation cannot be determined by looking at any individual good. Rising prices do not necessarily imply inflation is occuring just as falling prices do not imply that deflation is occuring.

Extremely technical economic note:

In the sense that a currency is a representation of the division of all the goods in an economy, a reduction in output (supply) ceteris paribus technically decreases the purchasing power of a currency to the extent that the same quantity of currency is now dividing a smaller quantity of “goods.” However, because of interdependence in the GW2 economy and the constant creation/destruction of currency, it’s essentially impossible for any item’s supply to fall without other economic factors changing. Without full sets of data (which likely exceeds even the data available to Mr. Smith) it’s impossible to calculate exactly how supply shifts in a single item would affect the purchasing power of coin. However, I would be comfortable making the claim that, at least for a few specific items, a reduction in supply would impart more of a deflationary pressure than an inflationary one.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Generaly, in mathematics anyone talking about “slope” is referring to the tangent at a particular point of a curved line or function, where as “gradient” tends to refer to a straight line and its magnitude.

Because I have delt with mathematics most of my life, I tend use the term “gradient” when refering to straight lines because of y= m x + c. Both terms are interchangeable and as SteepledHat.1345 said, anyone with general maths knowledge would not argue whether its “slope” or “gradient”, especially when discussing a straight line.

Yet, anyone with even the most rudimentary economics education would know that few, if any, of the words you desperately tried to cram into your much maligned post would ever be used in a coherent economic discussion. That’s especially true when the conversation is in the presence of laymen. It’s obvious to everyone that your post was essentially gibberish squeezed together in an attempt to try make yourself appear to be knowledgeable on a subject which you are clearly not.

Syeria.4812:

Yet, anyone with even the most rudimentary economics education would know that few, if any, of the words you desperately tried to cram into your much maligned post would ever be used in a coherent economic discussion. That’s especially true when the conversation is in the presence of laymen. It’s obvious to everyone that your post was essentially gibberish squeezed together in an attempt to try make yourself appear to be knowledgeable on a subject which you are clearly not.

LOL at you suggesting this being just an economics discussion. Tell me what the core language is behind culling/presenting/analysing economical data. This is the language I have used; perhaps there is a hint of physics in there, however, anyone with solid understanding of this language would not argue that what I wrote was incomprehensible.

As for the post. Did you mean the below post?

The abnormality is actually observing the staight line graph. The economy is a quasi-chaotic system and one can plot a trendline to predict economical outcomes in the (near) future, however at no point should a simple trend like this line be observed from the data output, especially over such lenght of time. Furthermore, the market is never steady because variables fluctuate constantly.

Seriously? You can’t comprehend this? Ok, I’ll rephrase this in “layman” language.

The economy is like a crazy system where there are many things constantly changing/affecting it (i.e. the price exchange between items/shares). When graphing this, a linear relationship (i.e. in the form of y=mx+c) should not be observed in the actual graph data at any time. One can, however, simply plot a trendline in the form of y=mx+c, which can help predict (near) future prices.

If you can’t comprehend this then there is something wrong… /FF

Esplen.3940:

Inflation isn’t a bug or broken mechanics or design principles. The only way to get rid of inflation is to have a set amount of gold circulating at any given time with no influence from anything else.

That wouldn’t do much of anything to eliminate inflation / deflation. You’d also have to keep the rates of production, consumption, and spending static as well (or, technically, only allow them to move in ways that are perfectly off-setting).

Without turning off all activity whatsoever, there’s essentially no way to keep the price level static. It’s naturally going to bounce around as people interact and trade. The only real question is how much is it going to bounce around, and can people expect it to follow some sort of stable trend in the future.

Ensign.2189:

Esplen.3940:

Inflation isn’t a bug or broken mechanics or design principles. The only way to get rid of inflation is to have a set amount of gold circulating at any given time with no influence from anything else.

That wouldn’t do much of anything to eliminate inflation / deflation. You’d also have to keep the rates of production, consumption, and spending static as well (or, technically, only allow them to move in ways that are perfectly off-setting).

Without turning off all activity whatsoever, there’s essentially no way to keep the price level static. It’s naturally going to bounce around as people interact and trade. The only real question is how much is it going to bounce around, and can people expect it to follow some sort of stable trend in the future.

If no new gold/currency is getting introduced into a market, there is no way for inflation to occur. People can stockpile money, but that will not actually inflate prices.

Of course, with a system like that, inflation would seep in by having items or something else come in as a currency, but that’s why my wording included the term currency so that there is NOTHING being used as currency that is getting introduced into the market. (Think GW1 Ecto.)

The entire idea of getting rid of inflation without currency sinks is a vast controlled-market idea. I’m simply trying to get the layman to understand that bots/market-manipulators != inflation. If anything, the bots reduce inflation (by providing supply). The market manipulators can create an illusion of inflation, but they are simply controlling an items price and inflating it; the market itself is not inflating due to them (at least, the entirety of the market, not the entirety of A market).

To re-iterate on that final sentence, sure, market manipulators control the high-end low-supply items and therefore can inflate that specific market. But they are not inflating the entire trading post.

Esplen.3940:

If no new gold/currency is getting introduced into a market, there is no way for inflation to occur.

This is hilariously wrong. You could very easily get inflation from a change in the drop rate, or from a change in spending habits, for the two most obvious examples.

That is, a shift to a lower item drop rate, at the same monetary stock and spending habits, will lead to inflation; a higher item drop rate would cause deflation. Similarly, a higher propensity to save would lead to deflation; a higher propensity to spend, inflation.

The view that the rate of inflation is dependent solely on changes to the monetary base is the economic equivalent of the Flat Earth theory – a quaint notion that doesn’t withstand more than the slightest scrutiny.

Ensign.2189:

Esplen.3940:

If no new gold/currency is getting introduced into a market, there is no way for inflation to occur.

This is hilariously wrong. You could very easily get inflation from a change in the drop rate, or from a change in spending habits, for the two most obvious examples.

That is, a shift to a lower item drop rate, at the same monetary stock and spending habits, will lead to inflation; a higher item drop rate would cause deflation. Similarly, a higher propensity to save would lead to deflation; a higher propensity to spend, inflation.

The view that the rate of inflation is dependent solely on changes to the monetary base is the economic equivalent of the Flat Earth theory – a quaint notion that doesn’t withstand more than the slightest scrutiny.

Continue to disregard the rest of my paragraph which actually took into consideration your point which you derogatorily used to slander my conversational points.

Thank you for your time.

Esplen.3940:

People can stockpile money, but that will not actually inflate prices.

Of course it wouldn’t. People deciding to start stockpiling money leads to deflation.

Ensign.2189:

Esplen.3940:

People can stockpile money, but that will not actually inflate prices.

Of course it wouldn’t. People deciding to start stockpiling money leads to deflation.

Good job, you moved onto the next sentence!

Now continue with the other 2 paragraphs. Don’t forget to read it all before posting!

Also, people stockpiling money can inflate prices of end-game items without making [a large/an] impact on the actual economy.

Syeria.4812:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

This is wrong on a few levels.

1) Inflation reduces the purchasing power of everyone. Deflation actually expands a person’s purchasing power.

Inflation does not reduce a person’s purchasing power, it reduces a currency’s purchasing power. That’s a very important distinction. To use a Guild Wars 2 example, the effect of inflation of the “coin” currency would cause the coin players hold to lose purchasing power. However, a character that had little or no coin would not see their purchasing power reduced. In fact, inflation in coin could actually increase a person’s purchasing power under very specific circumstances.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

3) Market manipulators do not have an infinite amount of market power to keep price levels rising for long periods of time as long as there are suppliers of whatever market they are in. There are other reasons for inflation…

“Market manipulators” have little to no influence over inflation. Really, the only meaningful influence they could directly hold is if their coin holdings are significant enough to impact the average “savings rate” game-wide.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

4) Good ole supply and demand has an effect on inflation. When production levels (supply) falls, price levels begin to rise.

People keep coming back to this inaccurate common belief about inflation. Inflation and rising prices are not the same thing. A supply shift is a supply shift. Yes, a downward supply shift will cause an upward movement in price. But this is not inflation. Inflation cannot be determined by looking at any individual good. Rising prices do not necessarily imply inflation is occuring just as falling prices do not imply that deflation is occuring.

Extremely technical economic note:

In the sense that a currency is a representation of the division of all the goods in an economy, a reduction in output (supply) ceteris paribus technically decreases the purchasing power of a currency to the extent that the same quantity of currency is now dividing a smaller quantity of “goods.” However, because of interdependence in the GW2 economy and the constant creation/destruction of currency, it’s essentially impossible for any item’s supply to fall without other economic factors changing. Without full sets of data (which likely exceeds even the data available to Mr. Smith) it’s impossible to calculate exactly how supply shifts in a single item would affect the purchasing power of coin. However, I would be comfortable making the claim that, at least for a few specific items, a reduction in supply would impart more of a deflationary pressure than an inflationary one.

1) You are simply wrong. If I have $100 and put $30 in my tank one year, next year I have that same $100 and put $40 in my tank… I lose purchasing power regardless of a currency’s value… This is simple economics. No one with any econ 101 classes would even dispute it. The price of goods have an effect on budget constraints.

3) Lets use ectos as an example. Lets say 1,000 ectos enter the market daily (hypothetical)… Lets simplify the math and say that represents 300g value. Over a five day period you would need to purchase 1,500g to prevent new ecto from lowering the value of the ectos you are selling for profits. It would take more quite a bit of money to manipulate it for long bits of time or co-manipulators to control the market. Say with the real world. Though the real world has shiestier tactics than GW2.

4) I am entirely correct. Supply and demand in the aggregate can be a contributing to rising price levels. Just google supply and demand inflation. Inflation is a rise of price levels of goods. It can be caused by various things.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

1) You are simply wrong. If I have $100 and put $30 in my tank one year, next year I have that same $100 and put $40 in my tank… I lose purchasing power regardless of a currency’s value… This is simple economics. No one with any econ 101 classes would even dispute it. The price of goods have an effect on budget constraints.

That is not inflation.

That is a solitary price change.

That is not inflation.

What you’re describing is the change in price for a single individual good. The price of any single good is completely irrelevant when it comes to determining inflation. The price of fuel may have increased by 33%, but if the price of aluminum has fallen by a greater amount, your purchasing power may have actually increased. A single good cannot ever be used to determine inflation.

Even beyond that inaccuracy in your post, it still doesn’t change the fact that inflation reduces the purchasing power of a currency, not of a person. Since my GW2 example was obviously over your head, here are some examples from the real world:

A person whose wealth is tied up in non-USD currencies (perhaps they’re CAD) would not have their purchasing power reduced by inflation in USD.

A person with significant commodity holdings (such as gold or steel) would not necessarily have their purchasing power reduced by inflation in currencies because they aren’t holding those inflating currencies, they have gold and steel whose purchasing power has not changed.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

3) Lets use ectos as an example. Lets say 1,000 ectos enter the market daily (hypothetical)… Lets simplify the math and say that represents 300g value. Over a five day period you would need to purchase 1,500g to prevent new ecto from lowering the value of the ectos you are selling for profits. It would take more quite a bit of money to manipulate it for long bits of time or co-manipulators to control the market. Say with the real world. Though the real world has shiestier tactics than GW2.

Market manipulators do not create those items, therefore they cannot do what you describe. All they can do is move commodities and coin around. Technically a manipulator could cause short run price increases by buying up a significant portion of a market’s goods and withhold them from the market (essentially increasing the amount of coin in circulation while decreasing the number of goods in the market) but this is only tenable in the short run. Because of how high the market velocity in GW2 is, how vast the creation/consumption of goods is, and how quickly players react to changes in markets, market manipulators could not possibly cause actual inflation.

This all circles back to your lack of understanding of inflation. Manipulators can (again, only in the short run) cause price fluctuations, but those are changes in price because of adapting market conditions, not inflation.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

4) I am entirely correct. Supply and demand in the aggregate can be a contributing to rising price levels. Just google supply and demand inflation. Inflation is a rise of price levels of goods. It can be caused by various things.

You still don’t understand what inflation is, and all the googling in the world will never help you until you let go of your inaccurate beliefs. You even managed to state what I told you back to me while believing it somehow “proves [me] wrong.”

Inflation is represented by a rise in the price level of goods. It’s seen as an increase in the price of a large basket of goods, and is completely unrelated to price fluctuations of an individual good. You can’t determine whether inflation is occurring in GW2 unless you develop some sort of price index and track changes in it. The fall in prices for Powerful Venom Sacs wasn’t deflation, it was an increase in supply. The rise in prices for Powerful Blood wasn’t inflation, it was a price reaction due to a fall in the price of complimentary goods. The rise in prices for Gold Ore wasn’t inflation, it was because a new recipe (Ascended Triforge Pendant) caused a major increase in demand.

When Memorial Day comes around, the price of gas is going to jump up. Don’t freak out about the “huge inflation” though, that’s just the natural price cycle that happens every single summer.

Syeria.4812:

Inflation is represented by a rise in the price level of goods. It’s seen as an increase in the price of a large basket of goods, and is completely unrelated to price fluctuations of an individual good. You can’t determine whether inflation is occurring in GW2 unless you develop some sort of price index and track changes in it. The fall in prices for Powerful Venom Sacs wasn’t deflation, it was an increase in supply. The rise in prices for Powerful Blood wasn’t inflation, it was a price reaction due to a fall in the price of complimentary goods. The rise in prices for Gold Ore wasn’t inflation, it was because a new recipe (Ascended Triforge Pendant) caused a major increase in demand.

When Memorial Day comes around, the price of gas is going to jump up. Don’t freak out about the “huge inflation” though, that’s just the natural price cycle that happens every single summer.

Wealth is what most people have in M1. Your constant argument about devaluing currency is hysterical. Because you aren’t refuting my statement that when price levels rise (inflation) everyone’s purchasing power dwindles irregardless of currency stability. Remember in the real world, currency is not just a national affair anymore…

If you do not understand AS and AD then you have fundamental flaws in your economic thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand-pull_inflation

I used an example of gas to help you understand as price levels rise your purchasing power shrinks. Because you were entirely incorrect in a statement in a previous post. Not that one good alone represents inflation.

Sorry, I am an economics major. These are things professors beat into our heads. If you would like to dispute Keynesian ideas, that’s fine. But that stems from an ideological difference, or different school of economic thought, not a scientific refutation of economic principles.

p.s. the quotes became to long to respond properly…

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Syeria.4812:

Yet, anyone with even the most rudimentary economics education would know that few, if any, of the words you desperately tried to cram into your much maligned post would ever be used in a coherent economic discussion. That’s especially true when the conversation is in the presence of laymen. It’s obvious to everyone that your post was essentially gibberish squeezed together in an attempt to try make yourself appear to be knowledgeable on a subject which you are clearly not.

LOL at you suggesting this being just an economics discussion. Tell me what the core language is behind culling/presenting/analysing economical data. This is the language I have used; perhaps there is a hint of physics in there, however, anyone with solid understanding of this language would not argue that what I wrote was incomprehensible.

As for the post. Did you mean the below post?

The abnormality is actually observing the staight line graph. The economy is a quasi-chaotic system and one can plot a trendline to predict economical outcomes in the (near) future, however at no point should a simple trend like this line be observed from the data output, especially over such lenght of time. Furthermore, the market is never steady because variables fluctuate constantly.

Seriously? You can’t comprehend this? Ok, I’ll rephrase this in “layman” language.

The economy is like a crazy system where there are many things constantly changing/affecting it (i.e. the price exchange between items/shares). When graphing this, a linear relationship (i.e. in the form of y=mx+c) should not be observed in the actual graph data at any time. One can, however, simply plot a trendline in the form of y=mx+c, which can help predict (near) future prices.

If you can’t comprehend this then there is something wrong… /FF

No matter how hard you try to be condescending, defend your post, or change the alleged topic of discussion, you can’t win people back now. They all know you have no idea what you’re talking about, and that you’re just desperately trying to force some sort of appeal to authority (with some bizarre logic that somehow presents you as an authority).

Just to humor you for the moment:

The spike you’ve repeatedly freaked out about and cried foul over didn’t actually occur. As Mr. Smith noted (and can be validated by looking at the chart) what you see is a reporting/graphing error related to maintenance. In fact, it has happened every single Thursday since regularly scheduled billing maintenance has been occurring. Just 3 seconds of research makes this obvious.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Syeria.4812:

Inflation is represented by a rise in the price level of goods. It’s seen as an increase in the price of a large basket of goods, and is completely unrelated to price fluctuations of an individual good. You can’t determine whether inflation is occurring in GW2 unless you develop some sort of price index and track changes in it. The fall in prices for Powerful Venom Sacs wasn’t deflation, it was an increase in supply. The rise in prices for Powerful Blood wasn’t inflation, it was a price reaction due to a fall in the price of complimentary goods. The rise in prices for Gold Ore wasn’t inflation, it was because a new recipe (Ascended Triforge Pendant) caused a major increase in demand.

When Memorial Day comes around, the price of gas is going to jump up. Don’t freak out about the “huge inflation” though, that’s just the natural price cycle that happens every single summer.

If you do not understand AS and AD then you have fundamental flaws in your economic thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand-pull_inflation

I used an example of gas to help you understand as price levels rise your purchasing power shrinks. Because you were entirely incorrect in a statement in a previous post. Not that one good alone represents inflation.

Sorry, I am an economics major. These are things professors beat into our heads. If you would like to dispute Keynesian ideas, that’s fine. But that stems from an ideological difference, or different school of economic thought, not a scientific refutation of economic principles.

p.s. the quotes became to long to respond properly…

You’re still chasing ideas you don’t fully understand, and are stuck on the assumption that you couldn’t possibly be mistaken so you’re reading what you expect to see, rather than what is written.

Your Keynesian theory you’re trying to shoehorn into the discussion can’t be directly applied (because of how MMO markets differ from real world markets) and even if they were, they wouldn’t be violated. Essentially, what you apparently think that theory states and what it actually states are two extremely different things.

It’s pretty clear to me that either you don’t have any idea how such a theory works, or you’ve decided that things people have said are quite different from the actual statements they’ve made. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter, so you might want to go back and review the statements which were made without the preconceived belief that anyone disagreeing with you is automatically mistaken.

I’m not mistaken. These are things I have on exams. I’m aware Austrian and monetarists handle things a bit differently. But in mainstream Econ in colleges, AD can be a contributing factor of inflation.. You aren’t disputing me, you’re disputing an economic school.

To some degree much of this is applicable to gw2. AD pulls prices up if AS cannot keep up. A lot of mats combine and thus affect each other.

Look, if you disagree with the Keynesian school just say so....

We can just agree we handle matters differently.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

I’m not mistaken. These are things I have on exams. I’m aware Austrian and monetarists handle things a bit differently. But in mainstream Econ in colleges, AD can be a contributing factor of inflation.. You aren’t disputing me, you’re disputing an economic school.

To some degree much of this is applicable to gw2. AD pulls prices up if AS cannot keep up. A lot of mats combine and thus affect each other.

Look, if you disagree with the Keynesian school just say so….

We can just agree we handle matters differently.

I’d just like to point out that he’s not disagreeing with Keynesian theory, he’s just disputing that it can be applied to this game’s economy.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

phys.7689:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

The inflation on gold/gem is getting worse. The prices are constantly going up and the ratio between gold-to-gem and gem-to-gold is slowly moving appart.

Also I have, on several occasions, observed that mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong.

You’re wrong on two issues.

1) Inflation happens over time. The dollar in 1970 is not the same as a dollar in 1975, 1980, 1985, etc. It’s not getting worse, it’s just running it’s normal course.

2) There is no market manipulation.

0_o ???

1) Have you ever wondered what is causing the dollar value to change? One or several aspects of the economy get manipulated by individuals/groups and eventually, over time, the economy has to ‘adjust’, or as you said “…it’s just running it’s normal course.”.

2) Refer to 1)

Also, I’m still waiting on an awser to this – “On several occasions I have observed the mystical plot based on ‘y=mx+c’. If this is not an indication of market manipulation then please correct me if I’m wrong”

So please, anyone, prove me wrong this is not part of market manipulation.

So… you’re saying inflation in the real world is cause by a person or a group of people manipulating the market? Must be them Illuminati eh?

actually inflation is caused by a group of people manipulating the market. Its government sanctioned, because in general its better that thing inflate in a controlled manner than if they are too volatile, and the worse thing for governments is generally if money deflates (supposedly) So yeah irl, inflation is essentially caused and promoted by a group of people manipulating the market.

This game is a bit different though, in that it is basically meant to inflate. (albeit controlled) Now i wouldnt say market manipulators exactly cause inflation, they exists, but most of what they do is transfer wealth to themselves, probably overall, they slow inflation, because they overall make money by taking money from a lot of other people. Overall, people have less money because some people have a lot more money.

the problem isnt exactly inflation with them, its more about the fact that the disparity in wealth makes it less and less likely that anyone can get something high end, that can be sold, without a strong participation in the money game.

This is wrong on a few levels.

1) Inflation reduces the purchasing power of everyone. Deflation actually expands a person’s purchasing power.
2) Government has some control over inflation. Which is why in the real world inflation hasn’t gotten out of hand in the U.S. It is not “sanctioned” per se. Unemployment levels affect inflation. Investing does. Too much “overheating” by the investors…
3) Market manipulators do not have an infinite amount of market power to keep price levels rising for long periods of time as long as there are suppliers of whatever market they are in. There are other reasons for inflation…
4) Good ole supply and demand has an effect on inflation. When production levels (supply) falls, price levels begin to rise.

1) i never said inflation didnt reduce purchasing power, i think it clearly does
2) yes i was saying irl, teh government are market manipulators, its part of their job/goal
3)I am saying market manipulators (non government) generally dont add to overall inflation, they just redistribute the wealth to themselves, and cause inflation of high end items, just by the mere fact that they are richer and can pay more for highly desired items)
4) yeah supply and demand effect inflation, but that part will always be the case, (never disagreed with this)

Esplen.3940:

Now continue with the other 2 paragraphs. Don’t forget to read it all before posting!

There’s little need. Your first sentence is obviously wrong, and the second so badly premised that you’re not even addressing relevant questions. Your response, of course, has been to mock me for pointing this out.

Esplen.3940:

Also, people stockpiling money can inflate prices of end-game items without making [a large/an] impact on the actual economy.

Like everything else you have written, this is, at best, incredibly misleading and most likely just plain wrong. If nothing else changes, people switching to saving money to buy end-game items will drive down prices, all else equal. Even when you take into account them finally spending those war chests on end game items it will have driven down aggregate prices.

Your statement only holds if 1) people farm less items in the face of saving, in a way that counteracts the lower spending, or 2) the game drops more gold at a rate that counteracts the higher saving, or similar. Otherwise, aggregate prices drop in the face of increased saving.

Syeria.4812:

No matter how hard you try to be condescending, defend your post, or change the alleged topic of discussion, you can’t win people back now. They all know you have no idea what you’re talking about, and that you’re just desperately trying to force some sort of appeal to authority (with some bizarre logic that somehow presents you as an authority).

Just to humor you for the moment:

The spike you’ve repeatedly freaked out about and cried foul over didn’t actually occur. As Mr. Smith noted (and can be validated by looking at the chart) what you see is a reporting/graphing error related to maintenance. In fact, it has happened every single Thursday since regularly scheduled billing maintenance has been occurring. Just 3 seconds of research makes this obvious.

Right…I don’t know what I’m talking about….I’m not going to bother convincing a mule to move if he doesn’t want to with his free will.

Like I said before, I don’t buy it that it’s a graphical error. IMO, the economy is manipulated by ANet to some degree. They have to make a minimum profit. Any company knows this if they want to survive and/or blossom within the economy. Why introduce so many sinks within the game? RNG, DR, no loot on mob kills, tax on sales, and finally the mystic toilet.

Are all of these there to fit the purpose of the game only? I doubt so. The quickest and easiest way to get rich is not getting caught out with own devious acts. I can speculate that DR implementation was more than just to tackle bots – something that many players also believe. This is a sink, like many others, to maintain the economy so it does not fall appart – and who controls these variables? Have a guess…

Ensign.2189:

Your response, of course, has been to mock me for pointing this out.

Save the hypocrisy for another thread, this one is going to die soon.

Noerknhar.3826:

Inflation is a big deal in GW2 as it destroys the chance of “not so active” players to ever achieve something great. Of course, hard work should be rewarded and legendaries should never be for free or easy to acquire. But have you seen precursor prices? Don’t get me wrong, I wear a full T3-cultural armor, have nearly every color in game and a 150g staff skin etc. I’m fine, I totally am. But have you ever thought about why precursor prices and basicly all other prices are going up and up? It’s called inflation – your money is losing worth every single day. And this inflation is based on exploiting and botters.

Let’s have a look at a casual normal player spending 2-3hours per day on GW2. If he’s doing some instances and/or fractals, he might get up to 5-6g per day (let’s not talk about how boring instances and/or fractals are in the long term). By having a look on the prices and how they evolve, that’s no earnings. This player is playing for the inflationary compensation. He’ll nearly never be able to get a legendary if he doesn’t exploit.

ArenaNet, why don’t you ban those precursor-lvl65-grawl-exploiters? Why don’t you delete those items? Why don’t you bind legendaries on account? Why don’t you do something about the market you created and that’s falling into pieces?

If you don’t care about inflation and such, I’m fine. But if you do, do something before it’s to late – time’s running.

I really do like your points here. I do agree that inflation is a real problem. If they flushed the market. It would fix the current problems. Demand would grow for items. They could then see how many are truly active. Also, if returning players see the economy is improving. They might be tempted to play more.

I know with say Skyrim which is a single player game. I don’t feel poor. I can get almost anything with some work. ESO is coming. If they go BTP like GW2. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the economy, but I am losing faith that Anet knows how to handle the in game economy. Where I have faith that Bethesda/Zenimax will know what to do for those like myself. It isn’t to say they can’t mess it up either. However, I can see ESO being far more vendor selling then TP based.

GW2 is becoming more vendor selling based, but the problem there is that they don’t offer much. The only option is further inflation. Unless, they can manage to make it where crafting can make money.

I am finding playing the market is one of few ways to make a decent amount of Gold. You buy a bunch of one thing with the asking price option. Then you sell it for more. The trouble is. I am not playing Guild Wars 2. I am just playing a market. I would rather larger amount in gold drops or vendors offering more gold for each item and clearing of all current items in the TP. If they make it a max 48hr for bids. The trouble with make your own price is allowed to ask for a lot lower. Now if they make it where you can only ask for near what the current going price.

Example:

Mithril Ore was 50c per piece, but then has dropped to 30c. However, the asking price is far lower. Which people keep lowering their price just to sell in turn. So the things that people are use to making money in MMO’s is not working.

So the only option is play with a ton of other characters for one character to have the best of everything? Anet will have other MMO’s to face. Their answer is to let the majority to remain poor. The ones who keep playing get the most. Well that is if you find a good guild that will do dungeon runs all the time for you to get what you need to make money.

Other MMO’s I have been easily to make in game money without having to do a ton of dungeons.

It’s 10 months later now. Can we finally start calling it “inflation” or will we have to read on walls of text stating that there is no inflation at all if nearly everything costs like 2-3times as before?

One side will argue inflation because attractive items wanted by the player base are constantly increasing in price.

The other side will argue that there is no inflation because a large amount of items are dropping in price, and that the quantity of low priced sold items is high. This prove that those items are still attractive and should be considered when calculation inflation.

The first side will then argue that the price is only low because those items are of very low priority, and quantity of those sold items is high simply because the investment needed to buy such items are next to nothing. Comparing a 4 copper food item that people buy 25 items to finish daily is not comparable to buying a competitive food buff that cost 50 silver. Quantity of sold items do not directly correlate to quality.

The third side will then argue that the first side do not have all the information. The third side would like to share the numbers, but its either a business secret or too much work to compile and they have better things to spend their time on.

The first side then gets annoyed and temporarily leave, and the thread repeats itself a few months later.

@Belorn, that sums up the discussion perfectly. If only someone would do that for the ascended gear / alt-friendly arguments we could save a lot of time.

Inflation, briefly described, is the loss of a currency’s value or purchasing power.
This is not a concept that can be measured without looking at all aspects of the economy, as individual items or even entire markets will shift prices substantially for a vast variety of reasons, most of which are completely unrelated to inflation/deflation.

Most of the very expensive items have gone up in price primarily because of the laws of supply and demand, but also because a degree of inflation has occurred.

I would posit that the inflation that has occurred has not been large enough to negatively impact the game in any way and that your issue is actually one of supply, not a devaluation of your in game currency.

I don’t think anyone can legitimately argue that there is no inflation after the queens jubilee patch. Since then it is hard to say, but there was even a blog post that said we know this patch caused massive inflation so we are adding in more gold sinks.

Considering we have an achievement that is to sink 3.3g out of the economy this month, I’d say we are still fighting the inflation from that event.

Making money in this game has never been easier. It used to take several weeks of playing to earn 10 gold, now you can earn 10 g in mats/coin in a couple hours of play. AC1 + AC 3 + CoF p1 is 5 gold in about 40 minutes with a decent team. Add in drops and tokens and you could push it to 6 gold. World events guarantee a champ box + rare + ~10 silver in greens/blues from the chest. That’s anywhere from 50 silver to 1.5 gold.

Prices have gone up but people’s purchasing power has gone way up, especially after the crash of exotic armor/weapons after ascended crafting came in. You can outfit a toon for about 10 gold in full exotics now, barring jewelry/trinkets. 6 months ago, it would have been closer to 30 gold, if not more, if you wanted a high demand prefix like Berserker’s.

Even if there was inflation, it wouldn’t affect the casual gamer or the returning gamer much. Casuals and returning are going to be making most of their gold from selling drops and harvested mats. And if there has been inflation, then at least some of those items are going to be selling for more.

Really the only people harmed by inflation are those who are sitting on a big wad of cash that they tirelessly farmed up and then stopped playing the game for awhile. When they come back, they will have less purchasing power with that wad then they did before. Casuals and most returning players aren’t/weren’t sitting on a big pile of gold to begin with.

Dear John WE ARE INFLATING. T6 mats are necessary for more then luxury goods and are on the rise. Food is one the rise. Ore is on the rise. Gems are on the rise.

I hold you personally responsible for destroying the T6 material market. (and for putting to high requirement on ascended stuff, we all know short term, 100 silk x3 (refine) for 1x bolt of damask is crazy. Currently supply might keep up, but eternal future supply? We all know it will rise in price. And that shouldn’t happen.

John strategy concluded in one line: Make things cheap for early/rich adopters, and make it triple as expensive for any late adopters/casual players.

I consider myself pretty hardcore (4500 playhours), but moneywise i’m not on the top. I hate playing the TP. I delayed investment in legendary and i can tell you one thing. If 10 months ago i spended all my gold on one i would have it. If i spend double as much gold now, on the same amount of stuff i must finish, i’m not even half completed towards it. You slowly killed my fortune in a stealthy manner. And killed my interest in the game. I put up with a lot of mindless grinding introductions in gw2, but crazy asended farming + late adoptor punishing takes the cake. You should be proud John smith. /Sarcasm.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

WE ARE INFLATING. T6 mats are necessary for more then luxury goods and are on the rise. Food is one the rise. Ore is on the rise. Gems are on the rise.

destroying the T6 material market. (and for putting to high requirement on ascended stuff, we all know short term, 100 silk x3 (refine) for 1x bolt of damask is crazy. Currently supply might keep up, but eternal future supply? We all know it will rise in price. And that shouldn’t happen.

strategy concluded in one line: Make things cheap for early/rich adopters, and make it triple as expensive for any late adopters/casual players.

I consider myself pretty hardcore (4500 playhours), but moneywise i’m not on the top. I hate playing the TP. I delayed investment in legendary and i can tell you one thing. If 10 months ago i spended all my gold on one i would have it. If i spend double as much gold now, on the same amount of stuff i must finish, i’m not even half completed towards it. slowly killed my fortune in a stealthy manner. And killed my interest in the game. I put up with a lot of mindless grinding introductions in gw2, but crazy asended farming + late adoptor punishing takes the cake.

Quoting the post without implying anyone in particular is responsible. Make sure you never mention specific people at anet because that’ll get you banned, and it’s also a great way to silence criticism with a bad excuse.

And that line about T6 being more than for luxury goods, it’s NEEDED. The drop rate is ridiculously small. Champ boxes really don’t drop them much at all, and generally mobs rather drop silk or leather. T6 Fine mats are FINE, they’re not masterwork/rare/exotic. So why do they drop like they’re rares?

I wouldnt post personally to him, But he always act like he’s perfection and that economic rules supersteed action (that he’s able) to do on his part. There is a hell of a lot you can do, and using economic statements (weither true or not) as an excuse to not even try to improve things is ‘not very collaborative’ in my opinion.

He act as perfection and he isn’t. It’s his own fault when people become very dissapointed in him.

Actually, JS’s job is to manage the economy as a whole, not to bend it to the whims of a particular individual or group for their own benefit. He does this very well, considering the big picture and long term goals rather than the “I want it now!” rants that are often posted here.

He has access to a lot more information about what is going on than we do, but is not allowed to discuss a lot of it (speculation is part of the game and would give too much influence to those who follow his posts on the forums). As brief as his comments usually are, they are always truthful without any fluff or doublespeak. If he says that such-and-such market is not being manipulated, it is not.

The only flaw in his approach is that he sometimes comes across like a college professor, testing the class by giving them the answer and then asking them to demonstrate how he got there.

If players like the posters who demand everything be handed to them right kitten now were to have their way, the game would soon become a ghost town because there would be no long-term goals to work towards. The few remaining players would stand around LA showing off their Legendaries collections and having Dawn/Dusk dance contests.

It doesn’t matter what is being done when it affects people generally negatively. The economy caters for flippers way too much anyway, it’s a bad system coming from a perspective that it’s a game, not a simulator.

Flippers are the natural side effect of a free market system that isn’t 100% efficient. They “live” in the inefficiency. By inefficient I mean there isn’t a “perfect” price for an item due to supply and demand as well as the fact that supply and demand is always influx to a certain degree. You can’t get rid of them with out eliminating the whole free market aspect of the trading post.

Flippers make sure that there’s someone willing to pay coin now for a particular item, then takes that item and put it up for sale for someone who would want it now. The only reason flippers exist is because the original seller and the eventual buyer aren’t on the market at the same time but both want immediate transactions and are willing to sacrifice optimum pricing to get it.

There’s a way to curtail inflation and to protect the casual player, it’s raising the seller fees and increasing drop rates. My last full build 2 months ago cost over 85g for exotics. That’s not including the karma cost for the back piece. Nor, does it include the mat’s I had on hand. Per unit pricing on some items are steadily increasing into the out of control realm.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

IMO, the economy is manipulated by ANet to some degree. They have to make a minimum profit. Any company knows this if they want to survive and/or blossom within the economy. Why introduce so many sinks within the game? RNG, DR, no loot on mob kills, tax on sales, and finally the mystic toilet.

Are all of these there to fit the purpose of the game only? I doubt so. The quickest and easiest way to get rich is not getting caught out with own devious acts. I can speculate that DR implementation was more than just to tackle bots – something that many players also believe. This is a sink, like many others, to maintain the economy so it does not fall appart – and who controls these variables? Have a guess…

I 100% agree with this.

They can’t post ‘we admit, the gem price is purely decided by marketing, we set it to maximise our profit’, but you can be pretty sure that that is exactly what companies do: maximise thier profit. Their is no reasonable way to get -say- Dusk, without giving ANet cash. And people really think ANet has nothing to do with this? Come on!

I find it very, very odd that there are players that seem to believe ANet doesn’t control the system. Even up to a point where I suspect that ANet has posting accounts to defend them and attack critics here. Kinda like Apple that pays actors to stand in line when a new product comes out and give nicely marketed 20 second quotes to the journalist when they get interviewed.

ANet maks their long-term money with the gems. IT’s really incredible to read that people say ANet doesn’t ensure that the gem prices maximise their profits.

That’s what companies do: they try to maximise their profits. It’s hard to understand why people think that gaming companies are different.

tolunart.2095:

As brief as his comments usually are, they are always truthful without any fluff or doublespeak. If he says that such-and-such market is not being manipulated, it is not

Your faith in people is really, really astonishing.

It’s hard to argue with people that belief that gaming companies are different than other companies, but I’ll give it a try…

The gem store is ANet survival. That is where the money comes from. You know, the money that they need to keep going… That they got to pay their shareholders with. That they got to pay their employers with. That they got to pay their servers with.

And you really belief that ANet let players decide that price?

This is why I dislike reading forums (but… I have so much free time in office)

Thoughts of the obvious keep pounding in my head, reminding me not to spend money in-game.

Things happening in-game are influenced/controlled by gaming companies. They also manipulate things to some degree.

One thing im curious, do gaming companies get revenue from gold sellers?

bOgz.7263:

One thing im curious, do gaming companies get revenue from gold sellers?

That’s a taboo topic, really.

You can’t accuse them of taking money from gold sellers, because you can’t proof it.

If ANet would got a decent gold-tracking system in place, they could easily see where sold gold comes from. It’s not that hard, just log all transactions, contact a few gold sellers, pay them 5$ for gold and track the source down.

They don’t do that. Other gaming companies don’t do it either.

You can choice to believe that they don’t do it because they don’t feel like doing it.
Or you can choice to believe that they don’t do it because they get money from them.

It’s a choice: no one can proof it this way or the other, so…

Tallis.5607:

tolunart.2095:

As brief as his comments usually are, they are always truthful without any fluff or doublespeak. If he says that such-and-such market is not being manipulated, it is not

Your faith in people is really, really astonishing.

It’s hard to argue with people that belief that gaming companies are different than other companies, but I’ll give it a try…

The gem store is ANet survival. That is where the money comes from. You know, the money that they need to keep going… That they got to pay their shareholders with. That they got to pay their employers with. That they got to pay their servers with.

And you really belief that ANet let players decide that price?

It’s very simple, really.

If Anet wanted to maximize profit from the sale of gems, they never would have created the method by which players can exchange in-game currency for gems. The only way to get them would be cash or credit.

What is the point to setting up an automated method by which players can play the game – for free, after the initial cost of setting up a new account – and use the in-game currency generated by this activity to buy items from the cash shop? The rate of exchange is tracked and stored, so if it’s being manipulated by Anet this will eventually be detected and revealed.

And what’s the point to setting this system up and then manipulating it? To force players to buy gems with cash? They’d sell a lot more gems if they didn’t set up this system in the first place! And there would be no shady activities to reveal in the first place.

The actual, and completely legitimate process Anet created is as follows:

Create a system that allows players to exchange their time (in-game currency) for money (gems), based on the laws of supply and demand. As the supply of gems dwindles, and the demand increases, they become more expensive.

Create compelling content that players want to buy.

Let the players determine how much they are willing to pay for it.

There is no manipulation here – the only reason why the price of gems is going up is because more players buy gems with in-game currency (putting no money in Anet’s pockets) than buy gold with real money, diminishing the supply of gems for sale. This is because Anet is learning how to create content that people want (infinite-use tools and armor skins), which is what companies are supposed to do in the first place.

The problem is, there are players who are willing to grind more than you are in order to buy the items. If you are willing to spend ten hours of play time to grind gold to exchange for gems to buy an infinite axe, then someone else is willing to spend 20 hours for the same item. This means that the price of gems will eventually go beyond what you are willing to pay.

But not beyond what any other player is willing to pay, because at that point players will stop buying gems and the exchange will slowly fill with gems being sold for gold until the price drops to where other players are willing to buy them again.