Guild Wars 2

So I have ran into several examples with this and I can’t help but wonder if it’s a flaw in the Black Lion trading post or if people just like to lose money. So here’s the long and short of the problem, the cost of numerous items is less than the cost of the materials. My best example of this is 20 slot bags. The superior rune of holding has a constant cost of 10 g. So how is it they only sell for 11 g 76 s 46 c, with the listing fee of 58 s 82 c. For those of you who don’t want to do the math your losing 1 c. This also assumes you have the rest of the materials that are worth roughly 3 s. So if you buy the materials your losing 3 s and change every time. This for an item last time I checked basically everyone wants and uses. Wouldn’t it be smarter if the Black Lion trading post assumed the costs and told you if you were selling an item at a loss or gain based on current market value/cost of the materials?

Some people are bad at math.
Some people don’t understand opportunity costs (the “mats I gathered are free” people).
Some people level crafting with bags and stuff, and have to get rid of them somehow.

Wanderer.3248:

Some people don’t understand opportunity costs (the “mats I gathered are free” people).

The mats you gather are effectively free and that is because the nature of gathering allows you to do it while performing other task in RL.

Stryder.9241:

So I have ran into several examples with this and I can’t help but wonder if it’s a flaw in the Black Lion trading post or if people just like to lose money. So here’s the long and short of the problem, the cost of numerous items is less than the cost of the materials. My best example of this is 20 slot bags. The superior rune of holding has a constant cost of 10 g. So how is it they only sell for 11 g 76 s 46 c, with the listing fee of 58 s 82 c. For those of you who don’t want to do the math your losing 1 c. This also assumes you have the rest of the materials that are worth roughly 3 s. So if you buy the materials your losing 3 s and change every time. This for an item last time I checked basically everyone wants and uses. Wouldn’t it be smarter if the Black Lion trading post assumed the costs and told you if you were selling an item at a loss or gain based on current market value/cost of the materials?

yes, it would be better, however, it would reduce the ability of people to take advantage of people for profit, which they really enjoy.

also for a lot of items, its caused by having alternate means of obtaining said items, or people who produced it to level crafting.

for crafting leveling they should have made the level up system not yield sellable items, or made a method that made it way more effecient to level up off non salable items.

silvermember.8941:

Wanderer.3248:

Some people don’t understand opportunity costs (the “mats I gathered are free” people).

The mats you gather are effectively free and that is because the nature of gathering allows you to do it while performing other task in RL.

the mats you gathered may be free, (even though it takes time, and you arent actually supposed to be able to play while doing other tasks irl without using a bot) but crafting them and selling them for less than the materials you found is still a bad idea.

i got 100 iron ore “for free”! let me make it into iron swords and sell it!
100 iron ore makes 3 swords which sell for 2 silver
100 iron ore sells for 1 silver each
which option do you pick as a business man?

It’s usually because people crafted those items to level their crafting discipline and now want to try and recoup their money as much as they can. But there’s less demand for finished products and crafting components, so they go for less than the value of their raw materials. (Prices for finished armors and weapons have gone up lately due to people buying them to pad out their Wardrobe, however.)

I take advantage of it by buying crafting components for cheaper whenever I do the next phase of my crafting binges.

phys.7689:

i got 100 iron ore “for free”! let me make it into iron swords and sell it!
100 iron ore makes 3 swords which sell for 2 silver
100 iron ore sells for 1 silver each
which option do you pick as a business man?

Depends if I’m leveling up my crafting.

Based on the title of this thread I thought this was going to be about items being listed for less than their vendor price that I happen across occasionally on the TP:

Item Vendor Value 1s
One mysteriously listed at 80c
Buy it and vend it for some profit

This one has me stumped, but I believe it may be tied to bots and a bug in the TP coding.
Just thought I’d mention it.

OT:
I am in agreement with much of what has already been stated by the others. Some people just do not go to the lengths needed to get as much profit as possible, or do not give it a second thought despite losing coin on the sale. Some are content with getting a little bit of profit instead of doing some extra work and calculations which may lead to more coin. Perhaps they see it as they could make more coin doing other things in the time it would take for them to maximize the profit on that one sale.

Behellagh.1468:

phys.7689:

i got 100 iron ore “for free”! let me make it into iron swords and sell it!
100 iron ore makes 3 swords which sell for 2 silver
100 iron ore sells for 1 silver each
which option do you pick as a business man?

Depends if I’m leveling up my crafting.

Well not like many games dont mess this up, but its a bad idea to make leveling crafting an opportunity cost to get to point B. You end up with a lot of these bad situations where people are selling things at a loss, because they just wanted to level up.

But its not just a level up issue, max level crafting items also used to end being sold at a loss.

If i were designing a crafting system, i would make it so you dont create items by accident on your path to leveling up, it creates an item glut. Especially with the buy order system, it is really uneccessary to create that type of structure.

Most casual players don’t want to be business owners or TP barons. They just want to play the game and get rid of the stuff they don’t need as quickly as possible. I’m sure a fair number of players vendor items whenever they can, and when caught out in the field far from the vendors they just sell them to the high bidder on the TP or click “match lowest seller.”

The final crafted item is often worth less than the raw materials because part of raw materials’ value is in the form of XP.

I think many people probably want to sell it because they no longer want it any more.

phys.7689:

the mats you gathered may be free, (even though it takes time, and you arent actually supposed to be able to play while doing other tasks irl without using a bot)

Gathering doesn’t take time. Unless you value every second you play. I gather while playing. So, I’m following this event around, see a node, stop for a sec, gather, and then move on with the event.

So, in that respect, they are very much “free” (or virtually so, as a gathering tool use will cost a copper or less…)

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

phys.7689:

the mats you gathered may be free, (even though it takes time, and you arent actually supposed to be able to play while doing other tasks irl without using a bot)

Gathering doesn’t take time. Unless you value every second you play. I gather while playing. So, I’m following this event around, see a node, stop for a sec, gather, and then move on with the event.

So, in that respect, they are very much “free” (or virtually so, as a gathering tool use will cost a copper or less…)

you arent getting my meaning here. whether its free or not, it has a certain value. If you are going to sell them on the market you should do it at least the value of the item.
So if you get iron ore, worth 1 silver each
and you turn 30 iron ore into 1 iron sword which costs 3 silver
you have lost 27 silver by making the iron sword.

It would be better to just sell the iron ore.
The only viable reason is if you have to make that particular recipe in order to level up crafting. Then you are paying 27 silver, for however much crafting exp you got.

Its fine if you dont care about numbers and whatnot, but i think its bad design that the TP encourages people to sell at a loss. Many people arent going to do the research and see what every single item they are crafting is worth, multiply it, and figure it out.

I guess some people to the old error of adding 15% to the intended sell price of their items. But forget that those 15% again need 15% tax for selling. So in the end you need to add ~17% to make the money you want.

And yes, crafting for xp, then selling cheap happens often!

That bag example is a pretty obvious one, but it happens with low level gear too. I go to put something that could be vendored for 1s98c up, and find the lowest seller is something like 2s10c, netting them a loss over vendoring it.

phys.7689:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

phys.7689:

the mats you gathered may be free, (even though it takes time, and you arent actually supposed to be able to play while doing other tasks irl without using a bot)

Gathering doesn’t take time. Unless you value every second you play. I gather while playing. So, I’m following this event around, see a node, stop for a sec, gather, and then move on with the event.

So, in that respect, they are very much “free” (or virtually so, as a gathering tool use will cost a copper or less…)

you arent getting my meaning here. whether its free or not, it has a certain value. If you are going to sell them on the market you should do it at least the value of the item.
So if you get iron ore, worth 1 silver each
and you turn 30 iron ore into 1 iron sword which costs 3 silver
you have lost 27 silver by making the iron sword.

It would be better to just sell the iron ore.
The only viable reason is if you have to make that particular recipe in order to level up crafting. Then you are paying 27 silver, for however much crafting exp you got.

Its fine if you dont care about numbers and whatnot, but i think its bad design that the TP encourages people to sell at a loss. Many people arent going to do the research and see what every single item they are crafting is worth, multiply it, and figure it out.

And that’s probably why I’ll never be rich… I don’t see it as “paying” for xp, I see it as free xp as no money left my wallet yet I did get xp.

Bags never get soulbound so there can just be to much supply of them,people just getting the fractals bags and selling the old bags or somthink.

Killface.1896:

Bags never get soulbound so there can just be to much supply of them,people just getting the fractals bags and selling the old bags or somthink.

why get a fractal bag if your old bag is already 20? only thing i can think of is if you decide you want to change one of the bags to hold exotics, or something. But that seems like it would be a pretty rare case. I doubt it could explain the standard prices.

I generally subscribe to the idgaf ideology. I list a price in my head if over it ill take it. max profit care nots.

Why would anyone buy a superior rune of holding for 11g?

When you are leveling crafting, you try and get as much xp as possible through discovering new recipes. In order to do that you have to craft the components needed to make the item. Your goal is to level crafting.

When you sell an item on the trading post it is at the mercy of supply and demand. You can’t sell it for what it would cost in materials most of the time because the demand for the finished item is just not there. People can use armor or weapons they get from adventuring instead of crafted items.

The harvested materials have more value for the most part because people use them to level crafting and not because they use them to craft specific items.

Some people just don’t care … and the game shouldn’t be putting safety nets in place for them either. TP is not the cause of this.

Katz.5143:

When you are leveling crafting, you try and get as much xp as possible through discovering new recipes. In order to do that you have to craft the components needed to make the item. Your goal is to level crafting.

When you sell an item on the trading post it is at the mercy of supply and demand. You can’t sell it for what it would cost in materials most of the time because the demand for the finished item is just not there. People can use armor or weapons they get from adventuring instead of crafted items.

The harvested materials have more value for the most part because people use them to level crafting and not because they use them to craft specific items.

The demand isn’t the problem (as much), it’s oversupply because EVERYONE leveling their crafting discover the same things to get the crafting XP and then try to sell it. Doesn’t matter if it’s useful to other players or not. Doesn’t matter you can’t make a profit on it. What matters to you the crafter is leveling crafting as quickly as possible.

Obtena.7952:

Some people just don’t care … and the game shouldn’t be putting safety nets in place for them either. TP is not the cause of this.

the tp has to be more creative because there are not real world forces.

all they really have to do, is let people know they are losing, If they want to make this a stock game, they really need to get some portfolio type things, so people can see they are in the red,

a lot of people who dont know, nor care about doing business actually is pretty bad for this type of market, since most people just follow the posted prices.

Personally i think making the main means of crafting exp, be to create useless items is a mistake. Items should be brought to market because people want to sell them, not because its what they had to do to level up their warrior.

phys.7689:

Obtena.7952:

Some people just don’t care … and the game shouldn’t be putting safety nets in place for them either. TP is not the cause of this.

the tp has to be more creative because there are not real world forces.

The initial and minimal effort that a player needs to put forth to learn how the TP works shouldn’t be forced on them by Anet through the TP. Real world forces or not, TP doesn’t need to be more creative to save people that can’t be bothered to save themselves.

It’s because everyone is following a crafting guide and the guide tells them to swallow the loss and ditch their exp fodder at market price.

The only crafted items you really see being sold for a profit are ascended mats, legendaries, and choice exotic stats (typically berserker). Possibly consumables as well, come to think of it. Everyone who’s done with crafting don’t craft for a profit anymore, they just sell the mats.