Guild Wars 2

O.K., Arenanet is hyping the February patch by putting a sale on bag slots and bank tabs. Awesome. Only one problem – the conversion cost for gold to gems just skyrocketed. Now you’ve just kitten off a lot of players who want/need gems for other things and the people who would take advantage of the sale get screwed because their “savings” are eaten up by the gouging in currency transfer.

Could you not have frozen the conversion cost before the change? Sheesh! Only Arenanet could screw up a free lunch!!!

Thanks, but no thanks, Arenanet.

I think they want you to pay them money for gems. REAL money.

What I think you are missing is they DON’T want you converting your gold to gems to buy the bank/bag slots. They want your real life hard earned dollars spent on gems. So for them the sale + worse conversion rate…. = perfect

Whatever else you want to say I don’t think you can say they don’t understand the money aspect of the game and economy. I think they have the down perfect

think about this: the gold<→gem exchange is driven by the players. they announce this sale. the demand for gems goes up→people exchange their gold for gems→the exchange rate from gold to gems goes up. simple economics explains why this happened.

Driven by players…..influenced by Anet<—-moto

Essence Snow.3194:

Driven by players…..influenced by Anet<—-moto

The only influence Anet has in the gem market (besides their initial algorithm to calculate conversion rates) is to put items in the gem store for players to buy with gems.

It just so happens that a LOT of people want the things that were just put “on sale” in the gem store. It’s a funny thing how a 20% off “sale” on more storage gets people flocking to the gem store to convert their in-game gold to gems…..then complain about the conversion rate.

No one HAS to buy the things in the gem store. No one HAS to convert their gold to gems to do so. Anet just said….“Hey…here ya go. Buy it if you want. It’s on sale.”

Anet makes money selling gems for real money. Besides the initial purchase of the game, that’s really their only way to do so. Putting highly sought after account / character upgrades on sale in the gem store is sure to boost their sales numbers. Good for them. I love this game. I want to see them succeed….and to do so, they need to make money.

The only thing I find comical about the whole “sale”, is that people converting Gold to Gems in an attempt to take advantage of the deal on cheaper bank and bag slots, are going to be paying so much more for Gems now, that the net cost for those slots, while cheaper in overall gems, is going to cost more gold than before the announcement.

But I agree with the above. This move was literally designed to make the price of converting to gems less appealing, as to convince more players to actually spend real money on the gems.

Anet may not adjust the gem rates directly, but this certainly will adjust them indirectly. Supply and demand is what it is, but when you arbitrarily adjust the demand by lowering prices, supply (of gems) is going to dry up and prices are going to rise.

lol, they finally found what the majority of people actually want.
50% off makeover kit on sale = no change
quaggen backpack = 1% increase
30% off keys = no change
super fancy holiday clothes = no change
20% off storage space = 30% increase
I’m just a sad camper because I already bought full storage space months ago.

I got pretty lucky and converted 32 gold to gems about 3 hours before this came out.

Mystic.5934:

lol, they finally found what the majority of people actually want.
50% off makeover kit on sale = no change
quaggen backpack = 1% increase
30% off keys = no change
super fancy holiday clothes = no change
20% off storage space = 30% increase
I’m just a sad camper because I already bought full storage space months ago.

Shows what players want. In this case it’s actually something useful rather than simply cosmetic. Gee what a surprise.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Essence Snow.3194:

Driven by players…..influenced by Anet<—-moto

The only influence Anet has in the gem market (besides their initial algorithm to calculate conversion rates) is to put items in the gem store for players to buy with gems.

It just so happens that a LOT of people want the things that were just put “on sale” in the gem store. It’s a funny thing how a 20% off “sale” on more storage gets people flocking to the gem store to convert their in-game gold to gems…..then complain about the conversion rate.

No one HAS to buy the things in the gem store. No one HAS to convert their gold to gems to do so. Anet just said….“Hey…here ya go. Buy it if you want. It’s on sale.”

Anet makes money selling gems for real money. Besides the initial purchase of the game, that’s really their only way to do so. Putting highly sought after account / character upgrades on sale in the gem store is sure to boost their sales numbers. Good for them. I love this game. I want to see them succeed….and to do so, they need to make money.

Oh I agree it’s a perfect way to boost sale of gems from rl cash.

My whole thing about the influence is just that….w/o them doing anything the rates stay relatively stable. Only when they “influence” it does it change substantially.

LOL, and it happend again.

600 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems BEFORE 1.95G ave.) – 11.7G

480 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems NOW 2.32G ave.) – 11.1G

Yes I saved 0.6G! Computer syas NO to 20% OFF SALE.

Another manipulation fiasco.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

LOL, and it happend again.

600 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems BEFORE 1.95G ave.) – 11.7G

480 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems NOW 2.32G ave.) – 11.1G

Yes I saved 0.6G! Computer syas NO to 20% OFF SALE.

Another manipulation fiasco.

600 Gems for bank slot = $7.50
480 Gems for bank slot = $6.00

Savings of $1.50! Math says YES to 20% off sale

Cash to Gems is a fixed rate, Gold to Gems is a floating rate. A 20% discount was offered off the gem price of items.

No where did ANet offer a 20% discount to the Gold to Gems rate.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

LOL, and it happend again.

600 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems BEFORE 1.95G ave.) – 11.7G

480 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems NOW 2.32G ave.) – 11.1G

Yes I saved 0.6G! Computer syas NO to 20% OFF SALE.

Another manipulation fiasco.

It’s almost as if some magical invisible hand is determining how much gold people are willing to impart for 30 bank slots.

Somewhere Adam Smith is smiling.

Step 1) Realize that the gem store has items that you may want to get, more so if they go on sale.

Step 2) Slowly, over time, picking periods with favorable gold to gem exchange rates, accumulate gems using a small percentage of your wealth.

Step 3) Item goes on sale and now you take your banked gems and buy it, but without the Sturm und Drang of the unfairness that a rush to convert gold to gems causes a short term unfavorable spike in the exchange rate.

It’s simple really. There is a pool of Gems and a pool of Gold tied to those Gems. Exchange rate is calculated with a plus/minus buffer to give a spread. As players convert Gold to Gems, the Gem pool shrinks while the Gold pool grows and thus the Gold/Gem ratio moves up. As players sell Gems, Gem pool increases, Gold pool decreases, Gold/Gem ratio decreases.

Simple Eco 101, no conspiracy, no market manipulation, just a rush converting Gold to Gems.

They really need to add a tin foil hat to the Gem store.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

LOL, and it happend again.

600 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems BEFORE 1.95G ave.) – 11.7G

480 Gems for bank slot (Gold to 100 Gems NOW 2.32G ave.) – 11.1G

Yes I saved 0.6G! Computer syas NO to 20% OFF SALE.

Another manipulation fiasco.

So why didn’t you convert your Gold into Gems before the sale? Seems someone is “manipulating” their facts here.

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

@Smooth Penguin.5294 If I knew this sale was on then I would have, makes sense doesn’t it? I can’t foretell the future you know…but ANet can. Also how can I manipulate these facts? Price has risen and it does not equate to 20%.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

Apples and Oranges are the same, since they’re both fruit. I don’t understand where you’re going with this.

Gem store sales are catered towards the crowd that buys gems with real money, not the gold->gem converters. I’ve spent $10 on gems on day 1 (extra character slot, and it was actually a gift) and probably 150 or so gold on gems since launch (I really wanted Foostivoo, okay?!), so I’d say I fall into the latter category. With that said, I don’t really see the problem with sales catering to the real money crowd – when demand drops off and gems go down a bit, that’s effectively a “sale” for gold->gems converters. Am I a little sad that I bought 2 panes of bank storage a few days ago, given that it’s gone on sale? Sure, but that’s true of every sale ever. Relax, there’s no grand conspiracy out there and ANet has not programmed a malignant AI that intentionally screws everyone over. If they were capable of that, surely the mob AI in this game would be a bit more sophisticated! (Har har original joke.)

Also, the gold→gem price rises literally every time ANet has a sale or adds anything remotely popular to the shop. The prices stay at that peak for a while and then fall to a place where the market is more comfortable. This happened at Halloween, Lost Shores, Wintersday, and with the Quaggan backpack. If you expect to enjoy gem store sales, be prepared to buy gems ahead of time during the lull periods. I’m not sure why you don’t expect a rush of gold→gem conversions, given that it happens every time, and for good reason.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

I’m kinda amused by how this gold-gems-cash exchange thing works in the eyes of players. It seems like half the complaints are that cash→gems→gold doesn’t give enough gold. The other half of the complaints are that gold→gems doesn’t give enough gems. It would almost seem like it would just be better to go back to a flat $ rate cash shop like in GW1.

Except, y’know, nobody I’ve talked to in game would actually rather have that system.

White Knight.3925:

the conversion cost for gold to gems just skyrocketed. Now you’ve just kitten off a lot of players who want/need gems for other things and the people who would take advantage of the sale get screwed because their “savings” are eaten up by the gouging in currency transfer.

But people will still argue that the market is too smart to legitimately pay 600g for a precursor.

@Smooth Penguin.5294 Do you know what ‘Comparing apples with oranges’ means in the general sense?

P.S. One /FF is enough I think (refer to other thread)

Mourningcry.9428:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

Have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

Have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

Sorry, but that’s not an appropriate analogy.

A more accurate one would be a $100 item going on sale @ 20% off for $80 and then expecting the rate of Euros vs the dollar to incur a 20% discount as well.

*You’re comparing price discounts with exchange rates. *

The price of the item was discounted 20%.

The exchange rate of your currency (gold in this case) to the item’s currency (gems) is not bound to the same 20% price discount at all.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Smooth Penguin.5294 Do you know what ‘Comparing apples with oranges’ means in the general sense?

P.S. One /FF is enough I think (refer to other thread)

Mourningcry.9428:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

Have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

So why is it that it cost me 20% less when I used my Gems? I still don’t understand your fruit reference. Did you have to sell apples and oranges in real life in order to be able to afford the cost of buying Gems? If so, I applaud your entrepreneurship in owning a fruit stand.

Which makes it a great time to go the other way, and convert gems to gold.

why the hell do we need consumables for the slots….. ? the unlocking method not sufficient ?

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Smooth Penguin.5294 Do you know what ‘Comparing apples with oranges’ means in the general sense?

P.S. One /FF is enough I think (refer to other thread)

Mourningcry.9428:

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@Mourningcry.9428 I was looking at the TP, your example was based on using real currency…it’s like comparing apples with oranges.

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

Have you ever seen an item in real life cost say $100 before the sale, and during a 20% OFF sale it costs $90? This is very similar, however the onyl thing that differs is that ANet predicts that the price of gems will go up and hence in the end it is not a 20% OFF sale, but much less. It is a marketing gimmick.

Here’s a better example. For example only, say there are two currencies, the USD and the CNY. USD is highly favorable, but cannot be directly earned by most people around the world. Most people rather earn their local currency (in this case, CNY) and use it to buy USD. The only people who can earn USD as USD are people from US. Amazon issues a 20% off discount to all their products. However, people from China, Japan, Brazil, etc don’t have USD on hand so they must buy USD using their local currency. Those people, along with people from the US want to take advantage of this amazing amazon deal such that millions of people from different countries (in this case China and their CNY) suddenly buy USD in that the supply of USD grows thin and thus, increases its value to them. For the Americans, $20 is still $20 since they earn in USD.

The same scenario is happening here. Just translate USD = gems, americans = people who can buy gems, CNY = gold, Chinese = people who usually use gold to buy gems and not irl money, amazon’s deal = bank slot discount.

The only difference is that there really is a limited amount of USD vs the virtually unlimited amount of gems the game can churn out. Thus, the value of gems is not in relation to its supply, but rather how many times and by how much people exchange gold→gems and vice versa.

penatbater.4710:

Mourningcry.9428:

The sale was on the price of two items in the gem store. These items are priced in gems. A 20% discount to the price was applied.

Trying to claim a 20% discount in the price of an item in gems should equate to a 20% discount in the floating exchange rate of gold to gems is nonsensical.

Here’s a better example. For example only, say there are two currencies, the USD and the CNY. USD is highly favorable, but cannot be directly earned by most people around the world. Most people rather earn their local currency (in this case, CNY) and use it to buy USD. The only people who can earn USD as USD are people from US. Amazon issues a 20% off discount to all their products. However, people from China, Japan, Brazil, etc don’t have USD on hand so they must buy USD using their local currency. Those people, along with people from the US want to take advantage of this amazing amazon deal such that millions of people from different countries (in this case China and their CNY) suddenly buy USD in that the supply of USD grows thin and thus, increases its value to them. For the Americans, $20 is still $20 since they earn in USD.

The same scenario is happening here. Just translate USD = gems, americans = people who can buy gems, CNY = gold, Chinese = people who usually use gold to buy gems and not irl money, amazon’s deal = bank slot discount.

The only difference is that there really is a limited amount of USD vs the virtually unlimited amount of gems the game can churn out. Thus, the value of gems is not in relation to its supply, but rather how many times and by how much people exchange gold->gems and vice versa.

It’s a good example, but does not actually represent what is happening in GW2.

In GW2 there are actually three currencies at play, Cash, Gems and Gold. In this case, a price discount was offered on items denominated in Gems. The only way to acquire Gems is to exchange either Cash or Gold for Gems. Since the rate of Cash to Gems is fixed, discount of the item, in terms of cash, is equivalent to the discount. Since the rate of Gold to Gems is floating, the discount is not equal in terms of Gold.

The example above is illustrated in a two currency system where since the items are priced in terms of one of the two currencies, an equivalence can be demonstrated. It’s a small nuance, but relevant. For example, the discount can be seen across all items in “Amazon”, but in the BLTC, only the two items discounted would demonstrate the Cash discount (all other items would be at the full exchange rate).

It really comes down to a price discount which can not be equated to a exchange rate fluctuation.

Mourningcry.9428:

It’s a good example, but does not actually represent what is happening in GW2.

In GW2 there are actually three currencies at play, Cash, Gems and Gold. In this case, a price discount was offered on items denominated in Gems. The only way to acquire Gems is to exchange either Cash or Gold for Gems. Since the rate of Cash to Gems is fixed, discount of the item, in terms of cash, is equivalent to the discount. Since the rate of Gold to Gems is floating, the discount is not equal in terms of Gold.

The example above is illustrated in a two currency system where since the items are priced in terms of one of the two currencies, an equivalence can be demonstrated. It’s a small nuance, but relevant. For example, the discount can be seen across all items in “Amazon”, but in the BLTC, only the two items discounted would demonstrate the Cash discount (all other items would be at the full exchange rate).

It really comes down to a price discount which can not be equated to a exchange rate fluctuation.

I guess I forgot to put in the last part, wherein the more people buy stuff on the amazon deal, the more expensive it gets for people not using USD as their main currency, and ultimately the lesser the discount becomes (if exaggerated like in GW2 even becomes a loss). This way, while there is a correlation between them, it is not linear in nature. It doesn’t matter if the amazon deal is only 1 item or everything, the point is that it generated enough interest to move millions of people to buy USD to drive the price of getting USD higher. I’m merely trying to show people how their discount got “lost”.

penatbater.4710:

I’m merely trying to show people how their discount got “lost”.

I think your analogy/explanation has been great (I do have to argue with the USD is limited claim but that’s a long debate about imaginary value and not relevant really).

My only really relevant issue with this whole thread is that the only reason this is a problem is people are viewing the gem store as a system that is Gold -> Gems first and Cash -> Gems second.

I guarantee Anet views is as a system that is Cash -> Gems first and foremost… and it happens to have a Gold -> Gems option.

Any and ALL sales they put on will be aimed at the Cash -> Gems market. Any and all products/features added to the gem store will be aimed at Cash -> Gems. I doubt there is much, if any, actual consideration given to the Gold <-> Gems system beyond the fact that it’s there and working as intended. Especially when considering sales and other ways to generate revenue.

The Gem <-> Gold market is entirely player driven. Unless Anet specifically steps in and alters the algorithm and/or messes with the current rates directly (which there is absolutely no evidence they do or have). As far as I can tell they use a modified version of what they used in GW1 for all the material, rune, and dye vendors. Eventually things reach an equilibrium based on real supply and demand.

As it stands now I don’t think gems have reached their equilibrium. The Gems -> Gold rate is still pretty low. The Gold -> Gems rate actually gets ‘better’ with time even if the actual exchange rate remains constant because the average player is relatively richer than they used to be if for no reason other than they want less stuff. If a player wants less stuff but continues to gain gold that gold has a lesser value to that player. I know when I first started and was leveling my first character 2 gold for that level 60 training manual was a big deal. Now 2 gold is a drop in the bucket.

Point is, Gold -> Gems is a nice feature but you should never ever assume Anet does anything with the gem store with any consideration for that at all. All your gold isn’t going to pay their bills. They are generous enough to give you the option but they still want you to spend real money and you can’t honestly blame, or fault, them for that and still be considered reasonable.

Leablo.2651:

But people will still argue that the market is too smart to legitimately pay 600g for a precursor.

The vast majority of the market is too smart to pay 600g for a precursor.

The thing is, there are only like a dozen precursors for sale. Hundreds of thousands of people who make up the market looking for a precursor can think 600g is a ridiculous price. But if a dozen people are crazy enough to pay 600g for one, then that’s the price where demand meets supply.

Market price isn’t what the bulk of the market thinks an item is worth. It’s the highest price one person in the market is willing to pay before the supply dries up. (Or alternatively, the lowest price one seller is willing to part with the item for before demand dries up.) When there’s lots of supply to meet demand, it comes to a pretty good approximation of the item’s actual value (in terms of utility and bragging rights). But when there’s very little supply, it’s more about how much a few crazy (or crazy rich) people are willing to pay for it.

I don’t see the need for it, but maybe there could be some sort of freeze on the exchange rate for say 24 hours after an anouncment like this, with the mechanisms of equalization then pulling double time for 24 hours after that as whatever shifts are distributed out. That would cause the 20% in the store to be reflected in gems bought with coin at least briefly.

I find it a little odd that more gems aren’t created in the process of more accounts being registered.

Solandri.9640:

The vast majority of the market is too smart to pay 600g for a precursor.

Oh, I think the majority of the audience is too afraid of the mystic forge to do anything other than stare at the Trading Post and dream of buying one without taking the risk personally.

Nike.2631:

Oh, I think the majority of the audience is too afraid of the mystic forge to do anything other than stare at the Trading Post and dream of buying one without taking the risk personally.

I know quite a few like this, including myself. I look at my meager 320g, and at the price tag on Dusk, and I wonder if I would be lucky enough to get one from the MF if I used it all. I’ve nearly convinced myself to try on several occasions, but stop when the “What ifs” start appearing. What if I spend all my gold, and come out empty handed?

Gisei.5749:

I know quite a few like this, including myself. I look at my meager 320g, and at the price tag on Dusk, and I wonder if I would be lucky enough to get one from the MF if I used it all. I’ve nearly convinced myself to try on several occasions, but stop when the “What ifs” start appearing. What if I spend all my gold, and come out empty handed?

And that sums up my biggest complaing about the precussor market – not that the price is too high (it’s not) and not that some shadowy cabal are controlling things (they aren’t). Its that the centerpiece for “game mastery” and cosmetic glory is being bogged down in an economy of FEAR.

There is nothing heroic about constantly evaluating which path to a goal is the least scary.

Gisei.5749:

What if I spend all my gold, and come out empty handed?

No one can tell you the value of your free time (and this the coin you’ve amassed), but to me blowing up to 300g on a blaze of glory do-or-die attempt is going to make a better war story even if you lose it ALL, than grinding out another 300g and tamely pushing a ‘make offer’ button to collect the fruits of someone else’s daring. I’d make it a party. I’d make all my friends come watch. I’d friken DOMINATE LA chat for a half an hour announcing the results as it played out. And I’d be a happy, happy player no matter the outcome.

Then again I’m Phoenix Clan (in Legendof the Five Rings). We have a simple game-play ethic:

Its not whether you win or lose – Its the size of the crater you make on your way out!

:)

azizul.8469:

why the hell do we need consumables for the slots….. ? the unlocking method not sufficient ?

As consumable they can be added to the random loot tables of Black Lion Chests for example.

John Smith.4610:

I’m curious, assuming the argument that a 20% discount should apply to the gem exchange rate (I think people here have done a good job of explaining why the sale isn’t a sale on the exchange, so lets leave that be). What system do you use to create a moving 20% discount on exchange, keeping in mind that the supply of gems is not unlimited, and that the exchange does not fabricate gems?

How is the supply of gems NOT unlimited? Every time someone buys gems with dollars, gems are created out of thin air by Anet. Every. Time. That’s unlimited supply or am I missing something?

That being said, one way would be to fix the ratio gems-gold for x hours.

Not that I would like that: I am fully aware that these promotions are pure marketing stunts, created to make more money for Anet. Anet would have to come up with other ways to make money, if they don’t trick people with borderline-false advertising.

And let’s face it, it IS borderline-false advertising: the price of bank slots did NOT go down with 20% when you buy the gems with gold, in fact, the price went UP.

Something tells me that the marketing people at Anet are high-fiving themselves cause they managed to trick people into buying the same thing for more gold with this action, lol.

I’m half amused, half in despair about most of the reactions here. If something’s on gem store sale, gems become more desirable. So it will cost more to buy them with gold. What on earth did you expect?

To say it’s false advertising is just ridiculous. Anet is under no obligation to make sure that the discount applies to the gold-to-bank slots ratio too.

The answer, if this annoys you, is to stock up on gems when the price is at its normal rate. Or just buy gems with real money.

I bought some gems with IRL money because if we didn’t, John would have to get a real job grin

Tallis.5607:

How is the supply of gems NOT unlimited? Every time someone buys gems with dollars, gems are created out of thin air by Anet. Every. Time. That’s unlimited supply or am I missing something?

You assume that people are buying more gems with cash than people are exchanging gold for gems. And even if that were true over time, it doesn’t mean that at any given time there are more gems available in the game than people want to exchange for gold. Also, gems used to buy things from the gem store are destroyed which I would think is what happens to a lot of gem cash purchases given how easy it is to make gold in game vs. the gold to gem conversion rate.

Not that I would like that: I am fully aware that these promotions are pure marketing stunts, created to make more money for Anet. Anet would have to come up with other ways to make money, if they don’t trick people with borderline-false advertising.

And let’s face it, it IS borderline-false advertising: the price of bank slots did NOT go down with 20% when you buy the gems with gold, in fact, the price went UP.

Something tells me that the marketing people at Anet are high-fiving themselves cause they managed to trick people into buying the same thing for more gold with this action, lol.

I think people forget that being able to buy gems with gold is not something that Anet had to do. It takes money out of their pocket for purchases people would have spend real money on.

I, personally, don’t make much money in game, so I don’t get much benefit out of it (I don’t think I’ve ever had enough free gold that I thought to convert some of it to gems), but it seems like a huge boon to those who do play the game a lot.

I assume that people accumulate lots of gold in game due to having fun (and time) playing the game. I would look at being able to buy stuff in the gem store using in-game gold as extra. It’s like Anet is giving people free stuff for having fun playing their game. I have trouble sympathizing with people who criticize how Anet gives away free stuff.

Tallis.5607:

How is the supply of gems NOT unlimited? Every time someone buys gems with dollars, gems are created out of thin air by Anet. Every. Time. That’s unlimited supply or am I missing something?

You ARE missing something: That he’s explicitely stated that does NOT happen.

Imagine there is a large but finite number of gems in the entire game. I’m going to speculate that number is about a 5 billion. That enough to have a reasonable safety net against if every account owner decided to spend 20 bucks on the same day.

Those gems are in one of two places – in the Exhange, or attached to someone’s account. When gems are bought with coin or real money they move from the Exchange to that acount – none were created. When gems are used to buy anything by anyone anywhere, those gems are returned ot the Exchange. No gems are destroyed.

The exchange counts how many gems it has at any give moment, runs it through a function, and uses that to set the Gem:Gold ratio. The buy/sell ratios are one and the same permanently seperated by a 15% adjustment to prevent casual flipping. No gems are created or destroyed.

As people pull gems out of the Exhange by ANY MEANS the ratio moves towards favoring selling gems for coin. As more people convert coins to gems the ratio becomes less and less desirable, while players who have gems (or could buy them with real momeny) are encouraged to acquire gold. As gems are returned to the Exchange the ratio moves towards favoring buying gems with coin – ANet is flush with cash and loosens the reins on buying gems with in-game coin.

Any time you do what it tels you to, it drives the ratio the other way – its a negative feedback loop or “self-damping”.

Or, put another way, it punishes you for being the herd, or worse, following behind the herd.

When the sale was announced, there was a huge rush to buy gems. That was the herd, and the herd got spanked for it. Meanwhile people who had foresight, buying gems with their coin when there wasn’t much obvious incentive did quite well capitalizing on the 20% discount. The dollars-to-goods people are entirely immune to such swings, and often do pretty well selling off the leftover gems when one of these sales goes down.

We saw a huge spike and people with in game coin converted it to gems to take part in the sale – the ones who did so quickly used something like the ratio it had settled down to for a while. Those that were even an hour slow got slammed. LIKEWISE people who sold off their gems for coin at the peak of the spike did great, but an hour or two later they had driven the price back down. Not as far as it was, but down.

John Smith.4610:

the supply of gems is not unlimited

Oh? I didn’t know that.

Svarty.8019:

John Smith.4610:

the supply of gems is not unlimited

Oh? I didn’t know that.

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. So I am lead to believe if I had unlimited real life money resources, I couldn’t buy all the gems my heart desired? I would be told at some point that there are no longer any gems I can purchase with real life currency and I have to wait for some gems to be exchanged for gold?

I really just don’t believe this.

Svarty.8019:

John Smith.4610:

the supply of gems is not unlimited

Oh? I didn’t know that.

From his precise language I’m fairly certain gems can be created – but if so they are created by registering new accounts (or possibly by buying character slots) rather than by players spending money to buy them. The total number of gems in the system is probably responsive to the size of the player base (measured in either accounts or character slots).

Likewise the function the Exchange uses probably is based on something closer to the percentage of all existing gems in the Exchange, rather than factoring off of the actual number of gems – again so the curve is responsive to player base size.

You’d need something like that so that the bot-ban waves don’t cause weird fluctuations.

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Yeah, that’s what I was thinking. So I am lead to believe if I had unlimited real life money resources, I couldn’t buy all the gems my heart desired? I would be told at some point that there are no longer any gems I can purchase with real life currency and I have to wait for some gems to be exchanged for gold?

I really just don’t believe this.

Look up a post or two.

“Finite” does not mean “small”. The total number of gems in the system is likely in the BILLIONS. possibly the tens of billions.

If you had a sudden urge to throw 25 million dollars at ANet just to test the robustness of their system… I think they’d count that as a win even if it was a bit wonky for however long it took every other gem owner on every server everywhere to sell off their stash at the rate of 111g per gem .

John Smith.4610:

I’m curious, assuming the argument that a 20% discount should apply to the gem exchange rate (I think people here have done a good job of explaining why the sale isn’t a sale on the exchange, so lets leave that be). What system do you use to create a moving 20% discount on exchange, keeping in mind that the supply of gems is not unlimited, and that the exchange does not fabricate gems?

The point here being that Gems are only created when people spend real money to buy them. Anet could potentially hold the rate of Gems to Gold at a fixed rate, but that assumes they influence that market, which they do not.

My only comment here is that this sort of sale helps anyone who has Gems and wants bank slots (or just has Gems in general). If you weren’t sitting on enough Gems to get the bank slot at the discount, and you have decided you would like to purchase it, you either buy Gems (which Anet wants), or convert to Gems (which quickly become non-profitable, or counter productive as that exchange rate rises).

So if the end result is to give incentive for people to buy real money Gems, then why not boost the number of Gems you get per dollar? Many other cash shop games do this, and while there is some resentment from those that bought before the “discount” time, in general it helps out everyone involved.

More Gems in the economy, more people buy Gems, and it doesn’t destabalize the exchange. If there are not enough people buying Gems and taking advantage of the sale, then the exchange rate goes up orgranically, and then those high prices are a result of the equilibrium going up as less people are buying Gems for real money.

I understand that sometimes when you release a cool new “must have” item into the cash shop this sort of spike happens, but this spike could have been controlled or avoided.

If you want a real sale you have to buy the gems from in game gold when you get a decent amount for a certain amount of gold. at times where there is no particular sale or new items.

once a sale like this one or new items is added people go crazy buying gems which in turn rise the price pr gem you buy.
If you buy the gems outside of a buying frenzy and have had time to stabilize a bit you get more gems for your money and will have them available next time new sale or new items is added.