Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

Which is the sign of a toxic economic model. Doing well in the economy shouldn’t rely on knowing things that most players don’t. A good model is one where everyone can know the “best way” and everyone can do it, without anyone being the worse off for it, cooperative, not competitive, PvE, not PvP.

Well, i disagree. People who excel at the adventure game mostly do so because they have better knowledge of the game in general, for example they know how to play their builds to maximum effect, especially in a group setup, and studied game mechanics. Those players will always reap more rewards than a solo player that doesnt know what he is doing and tried to farm karma with some clerics trinkets equipped.

I think thats a good setup in general because it promotes cooperative gameplay.

If you talk about rewards, you also cant say that the TP shouldnt be involved, as it is a tool for everybody (it doesnt matter if someone knows the economy or not) to turn item drops into gold. The TP is big part of Tyria and connects hundreds of thousands of players. The more you know about it, the better your rewards will be and I dont see whats wrong with that.
If you get more rewards because you spent some time optimizing your build and theory crafting, thats ok. And i also think its ok to get better rewards, if you spend some time doing research on the tp or the wiki to get to know which mobs have a high chance of dropping in demand loot atm.

What you are missing is that the whole game is designed around the TP, while WoW for example is most certainly not designed around the auction house. The big difference is that Anet profits from players using the TP, unlike other adventure games.

Alex.9268:

What you are missing is that the whole game is designed around the TP, while WoW for example is most certainly not designed around the auction house. The big difference is that Anet profits from players using the TP, unlike other adventure games.

Please explain how ANet profits from players using the TP? Gem Store yeah but the TP?

Few people have lot of shinies abusing a broken economy that favours a minigame that a “minigame dev” is pushing and favouring…

Many people is poor and see those few with shinies….(from game and gemshop because they have ridiculous amount of gold…..)

Some of those many people pay money to get ingame gold and shinies to be on par.

In the meantime each non gold related skin gets devaluated like putting fotm skins dropping at level 10, making arah easier and stuff like that.

So the only rare shinies are either from gemshop or gold related.

Behellagh.1468:

Alex.9268:

What you are missing is that the whole game is designed around the TP, while WoW for example is most certainly not designed around the auction house. The big difference is that Anet profits from players using the TP, unlike other adventure games.

Please explain how ANet profits from players using the TP? Gem Store yeah but the TP?

They are very obviously connected and part of the same thing, for example you can buy a legendary for 2k gold or 500 dollars. I can’t explain thinking.

But buying gold via gems bought with cash isn’t making ANet profits from using the TP.

Every legendary bought was first made by a player. Are you suggesting that player shouldn’t be paid a king’s ransom for the time and mats involved in crafting it?

Also 2K gold costs only $300 right now. Ridiculous yes, but actually coming down over the year when 2K gold cost over $1100 (Bifrost for example is now is 2950g but a year ago it was still 2400g).

The purpose of the Gold to Gem side of the exchange is to provide those playing the game a lot to be able to get some items from the Gem Store. It also funds the Gem to Gold side of the exchange as well as yet another gold sink. It at least provides a method to buy items from the cash shop, most MMO’s with cash shops don’t have that.

LordByron, your explanation is three steps removed to link ANet profits to TP use. That’s like saying that because more robberies involve Apple products being stolen that it’s Apple’s fault for the uptick in theft.

Semantically no the TP has nothing to do with buying gold with a credit card, but obviously the whole reason you would do that in the first place is the TP.

You are very articulate but you cannot grasp the fact that one doesn’t exist without the other. There is little point in trying to explain the obvious to you.

I don t agree.

If i try to fight inflation its to give gold more value.
TP speculation promotes inflation on any useful or wanted items not for real demand offer, but via market control.

Note that market control is not having the 100% of a resource…..
And differently from apple and theft, anet is pushing speculation via suggestions, informations, TOOLS (you can play TP without open the game? how do they know you are not botting?) and without taking action against maipulation of demand/offer…

If apple did suggest the 100 best way to steal an iphone and release tools to do that you would for sure think apple is involved…

A simple truth, gw1 did not have a trade gold for gem system and thus they never significantly nerfed player farming anywhere in-game. They didn’t care that everyone spent most of their character lifetime in the handful of notorious farming instances.

It’s understandable why they keep nerfing farming methods here, more gold means less interest in actually buying gems…personally I’m always disappointed with every nerfing, this IS a farming oriented game but it just gets more and more difficult to do that, like it has already been pointed out, not everyone likes to flip TP, wvw, dungeons, fractals etc etc, whenever there is a nerf it always damages someone’s ‘playstyle’

Should a game consistently tell people how they should play with nerfs? I don’t believe that’s the best way to go about it

The TP can’t promote inflation since it sucks 15% off of every trade and doesn’t create gold. Gold is only injected into the game from drops or selling items to a vendor. Gems to gold doesn’t inject gold either because that gold first came from players buying gems with gold and that gold gets hit twice with the 15% sink, once going in, once coming out.

Oh-no! Speculation via information, how dare they inform us, don’t they know some people may buy out all the beanie babies? The TP API wasn’t provided by ANet but derived from watching the traffic going to and from the TP, which is a browser app.

Sorry you can’t legislate common sense. If players are willing to sell an item at the current high bid or buy an item at the current low sell price, thus creating an environment for players to act as vendors, what could ANet do to force players to use the market smarter? Every suggestion I’ve seen to “punish” player vendors would negatively impact the purpose of the TP which is to allow players to get rid of unwanted items or buy wanted items with ease.

If a player gets manipulated by a ton of 1c false demand, well … see PT Barnum.

Here’s your chain of thought:

1) Players with tons of gold (who must have gotten only via playing the TP) either keep prices of desirable exclusive items high since they can afford them or convert to gems so they can buy desirable skins/tools. [Rich trendsetters and early adopters buy latest sexy Apple gizmo.]

2) Other players see these desirable items shown off and want one themselves. [Latest sexy Apple gizmo becomes must have trendy item.]

3) Players wanting said items are sadly gold deprived so if they want it they must either buy gems for gem sake or to convert to gold. [People who can’t afford latest sexy Apple gizmo but have an overpowering want turns to crime to get one from someone who could buy it.]

4) Therefore players who have tons of gold (which they must of gotten via playing the TP) are causing players to buy gems with cash thus profiting ANet. [Therefore if Apple’s latest gizmo wasn’t so sexy to become the current must have item, some people who couldn’t afford one wouldn’t feel the need to steal one.]

Oh its not that if i have XXXXXX gold i can buy lets say for example all sigil of generosity and just sell few at 10000% their price….

its not i can make gold useless for any desired item…….

Or once again if item X is made by A+B+C, is not i can get all C items so A and B devaluate so much because the item is out of reach of most people….. while i can freely set any price on it because i have a huge stock of C and i m paying nothing A+B.

I have only looked at the champ farm as a Karma/XP booster. I was able to level several alts and pad my Karma pool quite nicley with this farm. The gold I have made doing it was negligible compared to other methods for the time invested.
If you relied on the Champ farm for your in game gold, I suggest you look further into the game (beyond the TP) for ways of making that gold.
They are out there.

100x increase of Sigil of Generosity’s price! Try only 6.7x for Superior version over the last year. 2.8x for Major version and 9.4x for Minor version.

And how does one make gold useless for an item? Oh they bought them all from other people. Sorry the jury already came in saying that it’s impossible to monopolize a particular market for any extended period of time. Even if they are trying to pull a De Beers by controlling supply.

Same goes with with your third case, relies on control of in this case a material. Unless that material was available only during an annual event, crafting mats fall like rain if you bother acquiring them yourself.

Someone is yanking your chain if they convinced you that hundreds of players are earning 1000s of gold per day/week/month and thus pulling the strings on the market. It’s like typing in the code for Dust after an event in chat implying you had one dropped on you. It’s to wind up people that are easily wound up so they come on the board to scream about the unfairness of RNG.

And to be clear, I’m not a “flipper” but at times I’ve been a “salvager” and “mystic forge gambler”.

Ohoni.6057:

It’s not that the gold drops were the biggest part of the reward, but it was A part fo the reward. If it was so inconcequential then why even bother removing it? They are removing it to specifically reduce the amount of coin entering the world, so it can’t have been completely inconsequential. If they reduce the coin from an event by 1s by throw in an extra green item, then fair enough, I can deal with that, but the announcement ONLY said that they are reducing the reward, not that they are increasing it elsewhere.

It’s basically a passive flow of coin into the game that requires no effort (unless you count selecting the correct WP as effort). If you wanted coins, you’d be doing something else, so nerfing the coin drops isn’t going to impact people who are farming coins but rather people who weren’t farming coins but still getting them anyway.

They are pulling out a gold sink, so they are off-setting it with a reduction in passive inflation-generating coin flow.

You also asked for alternative gold farming methods. I assume you mean activities that insert gold into the game (i.e. not drops that you sell to players on the TP), correct?

In that case, here are a few (in no particular order):
Killing mobs
Dungeon Rewards
WvW kills
Achievements
Selling materials, junk, and gear to vendors
Jumping Puzzles
Events (getting nerfed)
Map completion
Various bags
Daily/Monthly chest

laokoko.7403:

Can someone actually post some way to make money without the TP for the average gamer?

I know various ways, it’s just not for average gamer. Like having 100 alts for mining. selling arah path. wining pvp tournament. dungeon speed runs for hardcore players(since only way to find people available to do speed run at anytime is you need to be avaibable all the time too).

Maybe something like karka farming? I can’t think of anything else.

Some examples :
Farming Skelks / Arctodus in Frostgorge for T6 Blood,Claws and Fangs
Farming Sharks on Southsun Cove for T6 Scales (never did that personally)

Gathering Iron was very good the last 5 weeks, however the prices are now down again.

Gathering T3 wood and Herbs in Dredgehaunt Cliffs was very good for over 6 months before the Ascended Armor patch.

Generally some Living World Patches have often increased the need of some mats so that they increased in price and made gathering them worth it for a while.

Also it helps to have a lot of alts for gathering, so you can find a spot where you can gather much in a short time, and switch trough your alts until respawn. Use of guesting also helps a lot

Personally i only did Champtrains because of the Bloodstone, since i only play in the open World, and thats my only way to get Bloodstone.

Beldin.5498:

Some examples :
Farming Skelks / Arctodus in Frostgorge for T6 Blood,Claws and Fangs
Farming Sharks on Southsun Cove for T6 Scales (never did that personally)

Gathering Iron was very good the last 5 weeks, however the prices are now down again.

Gathering T3 wood and Herbs in Dredgehaunt Cliffs was very good for over 6 months before the Ascended Armor patch.

Generally some Living World Patches have often increased the need of some mats so that they increased in price and made gathering them worth it for a while.

Also it helps to have a lot of alts for gathering, so you can find a spot where you can gather much in a short time, and switch trough your alts until respawn. Use of guesting also helps a lot

Personally i only did Champtrains because of the Bloodstone, since i only play in the open World, and thats my only way to get Bloodstone.

All good suggestions Beldin, but he did ask for methods that do not include the TP. For any of your suggestions to work, you’d have to sell your product on the TP…

;)

mtpelion.4562:

All good suggestions Beldin, but he did ask for methods that do not include the TP. For any of your suggestions to work, you’d have to sell your product on the TP…

;)

I think selling stuff at the TP is something else than flipping at the TP. You can’t make money without actually selling your stuff in the open World.

Even if i manage to do 30 events in an hour in Dredgehaunt Cliffs, thats still just kitten per hour.

The only thing that really generates a lot of direct money are Dungeons.

Having a think about the sources for raw coin I estimate that:

1. The amount $ to gems to gold is actually higher than most of us would anticipate
2. Although a single dynamic event reward is rather low for the individual player, in the aggregate across all players this is a major source of raw coin.

thehipone.6812:

Having a think about the sources for raw coin I estimate that:

1. The amount $ to gems to gold is actually higher than most of us would anticipate
2. Although a single dynamic event reward is rather low for the individual player, in the aggregate across all players this is a major source of raw coin.

If they are afraid of pushing raw money into the game, why then not change event rewards to give some crafting mats that have a good actually value instead ?

I simply think there should be ways to make normal events rewarding in any way, since nobody make them anymore, because the reward is simply that bad. And thats why most zones are dead.

thehipone.6812:

Having a think about the sources for raw coin I estimate that:

1. The amount $ to gems to gold is actually higher than most of us would anticipate
2. Although a single dynamic event reward is rather low for the individual player, in the aggregate across all players this is a major source of raw coin.

Exactly.

What crafting mat has a good actually value? Items on the TP have prices set by supply and demand. Upping supply would likely decrease the price of a mat with “good value”.

Behellagh.1468:

What crafting mat has a good actually value? Items on the TP have prices set by supply and demand. Upping supply would likely decrease the price of a mat with “good value”.

Except if you then introduced a popular item that requires a ton of said mats to craft…

Behellagh.1468:

What crafting mat has a good actually value? Items on the TP have prices set by supply and demand. Upping supply would likely decrease the price of a mat with “good value”.

Prices however normally don’t change that much in maybe 1 hour. So it should be possible to generate something like a reward from some random mats that are actually maybe worth around 10s for an event or whatever.

For example give one player 1 Orichalcum and 2 Silkscraps in Frostgorge, next gets maybe 2 ancient wood and 1 Silkscrap .. or even 25 Mithril .. or whatver.

That would at least be more reward than we get actually with 1s78c for an event without pumping actually new gold into the game, but a player feels more rewarded and there is higher interest in making Events.

So you are suggesting that server code should first check the market before deciding what drop each and every player is getting out of a champ bag when they open it?

That’s not going to add any additional load to the servers will it. eyeroll

Might as well roll item drops that are usable by your character’s profession while we’re at it.

Behellagh.1468:

So you are suggesting that server code should first check the market before deciding what drop each and every player is getting out of a champ bag when they open it?

That’s not going to add any additional load to the servers will it. eyeroll

Might as well roll item drops that are usable by your character’s profession while we’re at it.

Thats why i said that prices normally don’t change that much in maybe 1 hour.

So they could maybe generate a reward-pool of different items once per hour or every 30 minutes .. and people get a reward mixed from that pool in that time.

Thats also just a quick and dirty idea i had, but i think they need to get some ideas at ANet do make people WANT to do events and not that they are abandoned even more than they are actually. They also made people want to do champs, and haven’t just deleted them from the game.

Else events really are just an annoyance when you want to explore the map, and they can simply remove them from the game and maybe just go back to traditional quests that could be done one time and thats it.

Wanze.8410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

John Smith.4610:

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

Champ Farming is not the most economically efficient way to make gold. But that doesn’t mean it’s not the “best” method…for some people.

In particular, it’s clear that for many, farming champs is by far and away the best method. It requires no risk, little effort, and requires almost no attention by the player — this allows people bandwidth to chat with non-gaming friends, watch TV, or even do homework.

I speculate that this is among the reasons the coin from champ bags is being cut: this allows people to champ farm if they want, but reduces the reward for things that require little individual effort.

Regardless, I will never see champ farming as the “best” tool for earning coin, even if it were 10x more efficient than any other, because I find myself bored out of my skull after 1-2 rounds of the circuit. I far prefer to run dungeons/fractals, open world chains, or WvW behind a strong commander.

You make a good point. Its not the best but the most effordless. I agree with this change.

I think the point about champ trains and why people do them has been made.

“Effortless”

Karka farm use to be very popular. It was not uncommon to see 2 or groups of 5 running around in that small area between the 2 WPs on the north end, can’t remember the name right now. With the slower spawn it would be necessary to find a larger area to farm, but it is doable.

Kaderin.7584:

A simple truth, gw1 did not have a trade gold for gem system and thus they never significantly nerfed player farming anywhere in-game.

You have a very, very shaky memory of their change history.

Let’s start with the patch that changed the way drops were handled when solo farming – the one that explicitly lowered the drop rate of all non-rare items to what they would have been if you were in a full party.

If you’re going to try and bring history up to bolster your arguments it would behoove you to at least give it a moment’s thought first.

Ohoni.6057:

….
I can’t solo Karka Vets…..

I think we are now getting to the root of the actual issue here….

Besides, nobody is taking away the Champ Trains, just toning down the gold rewards.

You complain about every suggestion to make gold being provided to you, but disregard every other user that complains about how boring, degenerative and simplistic Champ farming is.

In the immortal words of a great educator, “Narrow-minded, Lazy and un-skillful is no way to go thru life, son.”

Well, i disagree. People who excel at the adventure game mostly do so because they have better knowledge of the game in general, for example they know how to play their builds to maximum effect, especially in a group setup, and studied game mechanics. Those players will always reap more rewards than a solo player that doesnt know what he is doing and tried to farm karma with some clerics trinkets equipped.

I think you miss my point. Doing better because you know better is fine, doing better because others know less is not. I’m not a super elite player, but saying I was, it would be because I knew all the best builds, had the best gear, learned the best skills, etc., as you note. But ideally, if every other player in the game did exactly what I did, then we would all be equally awesome, and I would be no less awesome than I was when nobody else could do those things.

Compare that to the way the game’s economy apparently works, where if I figure out the best strategies for working the economy, making the most money per day, and then I post those strats all over the Internet so that anyone can use them, then suddenly I am personally make a lot less money from it, I have become injured by everyone else playing the same way. The quality of reward you get from the TP is not just about how much you know, but also about how little the other players know.

That’s my problem with the current economy, it’s player verses player and only the payers that fool other players successfully profit from it. The economic model should be cooperative, in which players help other players to find the items they need, and players pay a fair rate for those items, but which don’t rely on the other players knowing less about how the game works than you do in order to make your profits.

They are very obviously connected and part of the same thing, for example you can buy a legendary for 2k gold or 500 dollars. I can’t explain thinking.

I highly doubt that’s a significant source of income for ANet. Most people that buy gems do so to buy gem store stuff, not to buy gold for TP merch. I think they more likely lose more money from the TP, since TP tycoons have plenty of gold to buy Gem Store items with.

A simple truth, gw1 did not have a trade gold for gem system and thus they never significantly nerfed player farming anywhere in-game. They didn’t care that everyone spent most of their character lifetime in the handful of notorious farming instances.

I never played GW1, but I seem to recall some early chatter that GW1’s economy completely collapsed, to the point that players traded mostly in rare high-end items because the currency was relatively worthless.

All good suggestions Beldin, but he did ask for methods that do not include the TP. For any of your suggestions to work, you’d have to sell your product on the TP…

Yeah, and it’s not that I mind having to sell things on the TP, but the strategies involved should be “evergreen” stuff that will work as well today as they did six months ago or six months from now. A player should not have to stay up on “what’s hot” in the marketplace to determine which targets to aim for in the game, they should be able to do the activities they like, the ones they find fun, and the game should directly reward that, rather than having to chase shortages in market supply.

What crafting mat has a good actually value? Items on the TP have prices set by supply and demand. Upping supply would likely decrease the price of a mat with “good value”.

That sounds like an excellent way that ANet could balance the value of mats on the TP. Set up a system in which there is a “mat reward slot” for major events, and the contents of that slot shift based on supply/demand patterns. So they have target prices for where mats “should” be, and whichever mat is furthest above that balance point when the event concludes, that is the one rewarded, helping to bring supply in balance with demand. That sounds like it could kill two birds with one stone.

If checking on a per-event basis would be too taxing to the hardware, the reward could update hourly, or daily, or even weekly, mat prices don’t usually swing wildly enough that this would be a problem. If it were weekly then obviously it shouldn’t reward only one type, but there are twenty five basic mats, they could pick out the five most out of alignment and randomly give you X amount of those, or perhaps randomize it with weighting towards those.

You complain about every suggestion to make gold being provided to you, but disregard every other user that complains about how boring, degenerative and simplistic Champ farming is.

No I don’t. Champ Farming is boring and degenerate, and like I said, if they can laser target champ training and nerf JUST that, I’d be fine with it. I even suggested they could figure out a workable method of diminishing returns that would prevent you from hitting the same champs too often in a row. Champ trains can go away for all I care.

What bothers me is how they are nerfing event rewards and the rewards from champ bags dropped during events. Over the past three months or so, I’ve participated in maybe fifteen minutes of “Champ Farming,” which was on a relatively new character who was doing the Queensdale train for a couple of cycles mainly to pick up some decent gear drops and get some Queensdale completion on. In those same three months, however, I’ve picked up probably hundreds of champ bags from the many champs that are part of world events, Living World content, and from events that directly offer champ bags as part of their reward package. I’m going to have to trakc tonight how much direct currency I make in a night from even completions and champ bags without spending even a moment “on the train.”

Brother Grimm.5176:

Ohoni.6057:

….
I can’t solo Karka Vets…..

I think we are now getting to the root of the actual issue here….

Besides, nobody is taking away the Champ Trains, just toning down the gold rewards.

You complain about every suggestion to make gold being provided to you, but disregard every other user that complains about how boring, degenerative and simplistic Champ farming is.

In the immortal words of a great educator, “Narrow-minded, Lazy and un-skillful is no way to go thru life, son.”

Except karka vets don’t reward the additional effort required to solo it over a regular karka. Nobody in the game could manage to make a veteran karka profitable over killing regulars in the same amount of time. The game also doesn’t differentiate between 50 lazy people killing 1 npc and 1 nonlazy person doing the same thing, but the nonlazy guy gets considerably less loot in the end because the 50 man moved off and killed dozens of other things in the same time.

Ohoni.6057:

You complain about every suggestion to make gold being provided to you, but disregard every other user that complains about how boring, degenerative and simplistic Champ farming is.

No I don’t. Champ Farming is boring and degenerate, and like I said, if they can laser target champ training and nerf JUST that, I’d be fine with it. I even suggested they could figure out a workable method of diminishing returns that would prevent you from hitting the same champs too often in a row. Champ trains can go away for all I care.

What bothers me is how they are nerfing event rewards and the rewards from champ bags dropped during events. Over the past three months or so, I’ve participated in maybe fifteen minutes of “Champ Farming,” which was on a relatively new character who was doing the Queensdale train for a couple of cycles mainly to pick up some decent gear drops and get some Queensdale completion on. In those same three months, however, I’ve picked up probably hundreds of champ bags from the many champs that are part of world events, Living World content, and from events that directly offer champ bags as part of their reward package. I’m going to have to trakc tonight how much direct currency I make in a night from even completions and champ bags without spending even a moment “on the train.”

I still have no idea why DR does not apply to the champ train. After a half hour of non-stop killing of the same champs over and over the bags should start turning green, then eventually white.

This might be a silly question but do we even know how much the reduction is?

This might be a silly question but do we even know how much the reduction is?

It’s enough that they felt the need to announce it in a blog post three weeks before implementing it. It may be relatively small on a per-bag basis, but over time it will add up.

Ohoni.6057:

This might be a silly question but do we even know how much the reduction is?

It’s enough that they felt the need to announce it in a blog post three weeks before implementing it. It may be relatively small on a per-bag basis, but over time it will add up.

Sort of like armor repair and trait reset costs?

I never farmed champs for gold in FGS, I do it for the mats necessary to get my gear made (exotic/Ascended) when nothing else, not even trash, that can drop a certain mat drops it, if at all.

I am hoping its just a gold form opening bags nerf as before as if they reduce the items gain to only that of a white champ bag I don’t know what I’m gong to do for crafting. “I don’t run dungeons anymore as its just you need zerk gear and you must be a certain class to play with us.” I don’t play stupid and mindless kitten on this game or any game.

If I had it my way, I would have content designed that was equal reward for time spent and also uses your brain (full use of the mechanics and system and the various builds etc) even if it takes 6 hours to finish.

But with they way things are, I have to hop in the train hoping RNG in the boxes gets me 30 of a t6 mat (or enough t5 to convert to t6 in forge) and enough silk/gossamer from salvaging everything to make one set of exotic.

I play games to keep my mind alert and working not dumbed down!

thehipone.6812:

I still have no idea why DR does not apply to the champ train. After a half hour of non-stop killing of the same champs over and over the bags should start turning green, then eventually white.

DR only works on XP, Karma and drops of things like armor and weapons, however it does not effect drop of crafting mats. Champbags seems to be the same like crafting mats / bags with mats it seems in this regard.

Yesterday they mentioned in Ready Up that Magic Find will affect chests now as well, so that could offset the loss of direct coin per champ kill.

I only noticed the last days that the champ trains in FGS are already more or less dead on the german servers. There were maybe 4-6 people last evening on Drakkar Lake, and also i noticed that for example the Orichalcum Nodes on Drakkar Lake, Kodash and Riverside have constantly changed the last days.

Wanze.8410:

Yesterday they mentioned in Ready Up that Magic Find will affect chests now as well, so that could offset the loss of direct coin per champ kill.

I thought they were just talking about the pvp chests. Would be cool if it effected regular chests as well.

Beldin.5498:

thehipone.6812:

I still have no idea why DR does not apply to the champ train. After a half hour of non-stop killing of the same champs over and over the bags should start turning green, then eventually white.

DR only works on XP, Karma and drops of things like armor and weapons, however it does not effect drop of crafting mats. Champbags seems to be the same like crafting mats / bags with mats it seems in this regard.

I guess I should have worded it better, I meant to say: DR should apply to repeated killing of the same champs by slowly reducing the quality of the bag.

I’m pretty amused by all the doom and gloom “how can we ever make money now that the only non-tp way to make it in the history of Guild Wars 2 is being removed?”

Champ bags were added in the August 6 2013 patch, almost a full year after the release of the game. People managed to make it through the first 11 months of the game without them, I think you’ll survive.

Sort of like armor repair and trait reset costs?

Those really don’t. I made more in cash from events and camp bags last night than I’ve ever spent on trait resets, and more than I spent on repair costs in an average two-month period (and again, without doing any champ farming).

Yesterday they mentioned in Ready Up that Magic Find will affect chests now as well, so that could offset the loss of direct coin per champ kill.

Does that apply to all content? My understanding was that it only applied to the PvP reward chests (giving PvPers some use for MF).

Champ bags were added in the August 6 2013 patch, almost a full year after the release of the game. People managed to make it through the first 11 months of the game without them, I think you’ll survive.

But as others have pointed out, other methods have been nerfed along the way, so if some new methods aren’t a part of the patch then it will mean a significant reduction in income. And they still haven’t done anything to fix the TP.

John Smith.4610:

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

If there was any shred of truth in that comment, then you wouldn’t have nerfed it, the dev team are going out of the way to nerf loot everywhere in the game, what exactly are people supposed to do, just log in and play on the TP for an hour then log off, why not add that to daily rotation, Flip 5 items on the Trading Post.

Something has gone horribly wrong, when “playing” the TP is more lucrative and profitable than actually “playing” the game…

If that is the future of gw2, no amount of feature patches, updates, new lands, new races will excite me.
If we have to be some economics geniuses, to predict markets or shifts in the markets, than you should rename this to Stock wars 2.
Also TP should be there to facilitate the needs of an average consumer/provider. To allow limitless trading, will soon result in abandoning the game. Because it will make the gap between rich and “poor” so big, that if a new player comes in game, there is no way he will ever replicate the achievements/earnings of a player that played before him.
New player playing for a year will not tbe the same as when a veteran player played its first year.

Ok I Did It.2854:

If there was any shred of truth in that comment, then you wouldn’t have nerfed it, the dev team are going out of the way to nerf loot everywhere in the game, what exactly are people supposed to do, just log in and play on the TP for an hour then log off, why not add that to daily rotation, Flip 5 items on the Trading Post.

Not everywhere .. Dungeons where the highest amount of pure new gold in a given time is generated, are of course not touched.

Ok I Did It.2854:

John Smith.4610:

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

If there was any shred of truth in that comment, then you wouldn’t have nerfed it, the dev team are going out of the way to nerf loot everywhere in the game, what exactly are people supposed to do, just log in and play on the TP for an hour then log off, why not add that to daily rotation, Flip 5 items on the Trading Post.

Currency is not loot. Removing currency from champion loot bags only “nerfs loot” insofar as there is a reduction in farming of those loot bags which is not offset by increased productive action elsewhere. You can speculate that that will be the outcome (and I’d probably agree, but likely to a much smaller degree than those arguing that would claim) but it’s far from an absolute fact.

Ok I Did It.2854:

John Smith.4610:

mtpelion.4562:

Champ farming was a TERRIBLE way to try and make gold. It was mainly for XP, crafting materials, karma, and luck, none of which are impacted by this change.

If you were farming champs for the gold drops… I mean… I don’t even know what to say…. maybe “don’t”?

It’s true that champ farming is by a wide margin not the best way to make gold (not counting TP either)

If there was any shred of truth in that comment, then you wouldn’t have nerfed it, the dev team are going out of the way to nerf loot everywhere in the game, what exactly are people supposed to do, just log in and play on the TP for an hour then log off, why not add that to daily rotation, Flip 5 items on the Trading Post.

Just because there isn’t a high reward for the individual doesn’t mean there isn’t a large amount of gold created across everyone in the zerg who have been riding the train over and over.

Currency is not loot. Removing currency from champion loot bags only “nerfs loot” insofar as there is a reduction in farming of those loot bags which is not offset by increased productive action elsewhere.

Currency is loot. It is only one type of loot, but it is within the larger family of “loot.” Loot is anything which you receive in the game, be it items or gold, from mobs or from chests or from events. Reducing the currency awarded does decrease the total loot received, unless they balance that out by adding in other items, for example if they reduced the amount of coin earned by an average of 1s, but added an extra piece of green gear to the loot, then fair enough, scales balanced, but they did not announce that so far.

Just because there isn’t a high reward for the individual doesn’t mean there isn’t a large amount of gold created across everyone in the zerg who have been riding the train over and over.

And just because there is a large amount of gold created across everyone in the zerg does not mean that each participant is making a lot. Each participant is worried about the amount he is making, not about economic stability. John Smith does need to worry about the latter point, but should do so in a way that does not hurt the individual player.

Maybe what they could do is charge players some sort of repair fee for when they die and their armor gets damaged. Maybe that could offset this currency nerf?