TP killing real mmo fun
The point the OP is trying to make, and I agree with, is that the TP is really at the center of the ‘end game’ for GW2. Once you have developed a character for each profession (leveled, geared, learned), what more is there to do but give them all nice shinies?
Solo dungeons.
Set dungeon records.
Get a high fractal rank.
Complete the fractal weapon set.
Rank in the top 100 in spvp.
Max out spvp ranks.
Gain wvw rank 500.
Get Ultimate Dominator.
Join a top level wvw guild or spvp team.
Have fun.
Help the community.
There are loads of things to do/aim at. Getting to level 80 is not “learning” a class, most have a great deal to learn frankly. Whilst doing as such you build up gold and amazingly enough, get the skins you want.
(edited by Fenrir.3609)
The point the OP is trying to make, and I agree with, is that the TP is really at the center of the ‘end game’ for GW2.
TP is only the center of the end game if that’s what you enjoy doing with your gametime. It’s not an absolute truth applicable to everyone. It’s not the center of my endgame. I feel rewarded when playing and I have very respectable gear SETS for many characters … and no, I’m not a TP baron either.
SO either I don’t exist or the statements you just made are nonsense.
Sorry, for me collecting bling is fun, not climbing the achievement ranks. I don’t consider getting to level 80 learning a class, more like becoming familiar with it to some extent. My pvp skills are pretty bad, and I am only playing now because of the new reward tracks. I can only stand pvp for a little while before I get disgusted with getting beat so bad. I got to level 29 in fractals, but all I got there was a pile of Ascended rings which you cannot sell or salvage. If they would give us some kind of trader to exchange gains from one area to another that could help with wealth attainment. My piles of WvW badges are for the most part useless for attaining shinies.
You don’t need to camp TP for Gold to collect bling though … I mean if your complaint is that you can’t collect exotic bling by ONLY raiding and never using the TP, you have no business playing GW2. Its just not how it was ever intended to work and it wouldn’t ever work in that manner without completely revamping a whole new reward/trade system.
Let’s be honest, that’s just not going to happen at this point.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
Exotic gear is easy enough, it’s the Ascended gear and rare Exotic skins that cost so much. Casual gamers just cannot realistically get a Legendary unless they play the TP game which is the point of this thread.
And that’s why this thread doesn’t make sense because I’m not TP baron and I have a legendary. Again, making money on the TP doesn’t require you to camp it for awesome flipping and great deals. Sell your goods to the highest bidder and collect your cash. The idea that the TP used in this minimal way turns it into ‘the center of the endgame’ is sensational nonsense. Furthermore, if you need money, TP isn’t likely the most efficient place for you to make it if you despise the TP this much. None of these anti-TP statement add up.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
Earning 1G per hour can be done easily … do the math on how long it would take you to get a precursor. If you feel that’s a ‘ridiculous’ number of hours, implying I would have to quit my job in order to earn this amount of money, then you aren’t even in qualified to have a discussion about owning a Legendary, much less qualified to complain about how TP-centric the endgame is.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
Earning 1G per hour can be done easily … do the math on how long it would take you to get a precursor. If you feel that’s a ‘ridiculous’ number of hours, implying I would have to quit my job in order to earn this amount of money, then you aren’t even in qualified to have a discussion about owning a Legendary, much less qualified to complain about how TP-centric the endgame is.
Id say 1ooo hours for 1 part of a legendary is too much.
Also from your posts I gather you enjoy farming. While you could have saved 1g for 1000 hours, what is the actual case?
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.
There are many casuals that support the game through gems, but don’t like the idea of buying gold, or would prefer to achieve high end rewards through non gold based gameplay. People who buy dyes charachter slots, costumes.
Also anet said they weren’t going to design gameplay based on a cash/gem shop premise. So whatever an items means of aquisition, itbshould be able to stand on its own game design wise.
But I do agree that the current implementation suggests a casual buy gems, which I personally think isn’t good from a game design standpoint
See my belief is you get more money keeping people loving and engaged with your product than when they are not engaged.
By your standards fighting games should be set to max difficulty in arcades and dmg should be incressed because you only get money if they lose
(edited by phys.7689)
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.There are many casuals that support the game through gems, but don’t like the idea of buying gold, or would prefer to achieve high end rewards through non gold based gameplay. People who buy dyes charachter slots, costumes.
Also anet said they weren’t going to design gameplay based on a cash/gem shop premise. So whatever an items means of aquisition, itbshould be able to stand on its own game design wise.
But I do agree that the current implementation suggests a casual buy gems, which I personally think isn’t good from a game design standpoint
Well, they didnt design gameplay based on microtransactions because you dont need those expensive items to play every aspect of the game.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.There are many casuals that support the game through gems, but don’t like the idea of buying gold, or would prefer to achieve high end rewards through non gold based gameplay. People who buy dyes charachter slots, costumes.
Also anet said they weren’t going to design gameplay based on a cash/gem shop premise. So whatever an items means of aquisition, itbshould be able to stand on its own game design wise.
But I do agree that the current implementation suggests a casual buy gems, which I personally think isn’t good from a game design standpoint
Well, they didnt design gameplay based on microtransactions because you dont need those expensive items to play every aspect of the game.
Do you really think endgame goals is not an integral part of game design? Especially in a game type based on replayability and long term play?
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
Earning 1G per hour can be done easily … do the math on how long it would take you to get a precursor. If you feel that’s a ‘ridiculous’ number of hours, implying I would have to quit my job in order to earn this amount of money, then you aren’t even in qualified to have a discussion about owning a Legendary, much less qualified to complain about how TP-centric the endgame is.
Id say 1ooo hours for 1 part of a legendary is too much.
Also from your posts I gather you enjoy farming. While you could have saved 1g for 1000 hours, what is the actual case?
That’s a matter of opinion. Clearly a Legendary isn’t targeting casual players, even though I don’t feel it’s out of the casual players reach either if you make it a goal. That’s why Ascended weapons exist. It’s an out for people that don’t feel the time and effort getting a Legendary is worth it. And it’s a favourable one because the performance is the same.
The irony is that while you QQ about the TP, you post indicates you aren’t willing to farm the necessary gold/mats to make a Legendary either. Do you just want it mailed to you from Anet?
Do you really think endgame goals is not an integral part of game design? Especially in a game type based on replayability and long term play?
That’s why there is a large variety of endgame goals for you to pick from appropriate for your commitment to the game and choosing a lower commitment goal has a relatively insignificant impact on your performance. There is no argument against the TP to be made by casual players … it helps them if they set goals that are appropriate to them. It’s also why the game isn’t balanced around full endgame setups like many other fail MMO’s out there.
(edited by Obtena.7952)
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.There are many casuals that support the game through gems, but don’t like the idea of buying gold, or would prefer to achieve high end rewards through non gold based gameplay. People who buy dyes charachter slots, costumes.
Also anet said they weren’t going to design gameplay based on a cash/gem shop premise. So whatever an items means of aquisition, itbshould be able to stand on its own game design wise.
But I do agree that the current implementation suggests a casual buy gems, which I personally think isn’t good from a game design standpoint
Well, they didnt design gameplay based on microtransactions because you dont need those expensive items to play every aspect of the game.
Do you really think endgame goals is not an integral part of game design? Especially in a game type based on replayability and long term play?
End game goals are integral game design. Thats why they designed different goals for different players. Casual players that dont intend to spend any money on the gem store, can aim to earn meta LS achievements, earn titels, complete reward tracks in pvp or Tourney Achievements in wvw. They dont need to spend any gold on ascended armor, legendaries or rare skins. Those were introduced as long term goals for hardcore players (to keep them in the game) and casuals that spend money on the gem store. If casual players want to obtain these rewards they can either go hardcore or spend money in the gem store.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
Earning 1G per hour can be done easily … do the math on how long it would take you to get a precursor. If you feel that’s a ‘ridiculous’ number of hours, implying I would have to quit my job in order to earn this amount of money, then you aren’t even in qualified to have a discussion about owning a Legendary, much less qualified to complain about how TP-centric the endgame is.
Id say 1ooo hours for 1 part of a legendary is too much.
Also from your posts I gather you enjoy farming. While you could have saved 1g for 1000 hours, what is the actual case?That’s a matter of opinion. Clearly a Legendary isn’t targeting casual players, even though I don’t feel it’s out of the casual players reach either if you make it a goal. That’s why Ascended weapons exist. It’s an out for people that don’t feel the time and effort getting a Legendary is worth it. And it’s a favourable one because the performance is the same.
The irony is that while you QQ about the TP, you post indicates you aren’t willing to farm the necessary gold/mats to make a Legendary either. Do you just want it mailed to you from Anet?
Do you really think endgame goals is not an integral part of game design? Especially in a game type based on replayability and long term play?
That’s why there is a large variety of endgame goals for you to pick from appropriate for your commitment to the game and choosing a lower commitment goal has a relatively insignificant impact on your performance. There is no argument against the TP to be made by casual players … it helps them if they set goals that are appropriate to them. It’s also why the game isn’t balanced around full endgame setups like many other fail MMO’s out there.
There really isnt a variety of endgame goals/rewards in pve, and the best method for most of them is gold earning.
endgame to me doesnt necessarilly mean dungeons and raids, it means things for you to do as you reach player maturity. Often developers use items because they are the easiest things to design usually. As you mature as a player the only thing to really do in GW2 is to obtain/ascended/legendaries/elite skins. The best way of doing any of those is to earn gold. The endgame reward system is based around earning gold. Yes, even if your goal is ascended it is less time consuming to grind gold, then to craft it. In fact, its sometimes actually cheaper to buy your ascended parts than to craft it.
you also mistake me, i have already explained, i am not incapable of TP merchanting, and i can grind farm as well. I just recognize it is very poor game design that doing what anet considers to be degenerative gameplay(farming/grinding) and playing a totally different type of game than the game is sold/marketed as (tp merchanting) is a bad way to keep most people playing/interested/enjoying the game. I’m not saying no one enjoys these things, i am saying they sold the game to people telling them it was an adventure game, so a lot of the people playing it want to go on adventures, and get rewarded for it.
I will make it clear to you, I have two legendaries, i mystic forged both of them, i was neither extremely lucky, nor extremely unlucky doing so. In order to get that money, i basically had to alter my gameplay, and grind, in combination with merchanting. So no, i am not a jealous hater, who wants something for nothing.
I am a guy who recognizes, that in order to achieve these goals i had to play in ways the developers either did not want, or expected to be a side way of obtaining. While i was pursuing these goals, dungeons, guild events, 90% of the open world, living story, exploration, alts, fractals, wvw, spvp were all impediments to my goal. (well after getting the mastery taken care of which i had mostly done within 2 weeks of hitting 80 back in the first month of play or so.)
Thats my problem, end game goals for which the best way to acheive them is to buy them, dont encourage you to play the game in ways that most people expect to be playing an adventure game Since the purpose of end game goals is to keep you doing the things you enjoy doing, these endgame goals actually are only doing their job for people who like to farm/play the tp.
Hence the title, TP killing real MMO fun, while probably Gold wars killing real MMO fun is probably more apt.
So i told you how i got my legendary/precursors, how did you get yours?
Well, i cant understand how on one side you can condemn the Trading Post as out of place for an adventure mmo and at the same time demand Legendaries and rare skins to be casual end game goals.
I only got 1 Legendary and got the precursor from 3 random rares and a mystic stone.
I was working on Bolt but was rather waiting for crafted precursors or scavenger hunt than spending 600g for Zap. When it rose to 800g and Anet mentioned they arent working on scavenger hunt, i sold all my t6 fine and rare mats.
Even though i could afford to just buy Zap (or Bolt), I think its too expensive for the skin alone atm, so I dont do it. If others do, fair enough, you wont see me moaning on the forums.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
End game goals are integral game design. Thats why they designed different goals for different players. Casual players that dont intend to spend any money on the gem store, can aim to earn meta LS achievements, earn titels, complete reward tracks in pvp or Tourney Achievements in wvw. They dont need to spend any gold on ascended armor, legendaries or rare skins. Those were introduced as long term goals for hardcore players (to keep them in the game) and casuals that spend money on the gem store. If casual players want to obtain these rewards they can either go hardcore or spend money in the gem store.
Actually achievements arent really very casual, and most of the titles require extreme grinding. Also recognize a large amount of casuals dont play pvp. just look at WvW it houses about 600 for every 4200 people in PVE (based on max pop caps of 150+instances) wvw is 1/7th at BEST
if we look at the max concurrent we got 460k users being thier highest, if we take 500 in WvW * 51 servers. you get 25500, which is only 5%.
So yeah if the endgame is supposed to be pvp based, then they are going to lose a lot of players when endgame comes around. Which honestly seems to be somewhat true. The amount of people who have left and yet to return is not small.
but lets not get it twisted, this isnt just about casual, many midcore and hardcore people also dislike the Gold wars style and reward structures.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
10g is close to optimal; I wouldn’t expect someone who wants to play casually to achieve that. 5g is very achievable. 1g / hour is someone who is determined not to take advice on how to optimize for rewards; that’s fine, but in that case the fun they had is the reward. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with offering a carrot which you won’t get unless you change how you play somewhat — there are multiple ways you can get decent rewards in the game, so it’s not like there’s only one path.
The one thing I would say is that optimal design would leave casual players believing that if they spent a bit more time on it, they could get the end game reward that they decide on … precursors give no sense of progression, and the barrier seems high.
But if you move even somewhat towards optimal play, it’s not hard to make 5g a day — and if you do this consistently, you will make progress if a legendary is your goal. But it’ll take a while … like it or not, that’s the intent.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
10g is close to optimal; I wouldn’t expect someone who wants to play casually to achieve that. 5g is very achievable. 1g / hour is someone who is determined not to take advice on how to optimize for rewards; that’s fine, but in that case the fun they had is the reward. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with offering a carrot which you won’t get unless you change how you play somewhat — there are multiple ways you can get decent rewards in the game, so it’s not like there’s only one path.
The one thing I would say is that optimal design would leave casual players believing that if they spent a bit more time on it, they could get the end game reward that they decide on … precursors give no sense of progression, and the barrier seems high.
But if you move even somewhat towards optimal play, it’s not hard to make 5g a day — and if you do this consistently, you will make progress if a legendary is your goal. But it’ll take a while … like it or not, that’s the intent.
carrot for changing play is good. But a lot of the best farms arent really good playstyles.
Picking the shortest dungeon paths, running past every mob, and using terrain to make fights super facile. I mean its cool figuring out some of the stuff, but its not really deep gameplay.
Dynamic event spam, wouldnt be bad, except its only usually 2 or 3 events in the same zone, and to be profitable you need enough people to make it more about getting a tag than fighting a horde
Champion train, not as bad now, but still pretty much warp rotation tag gaming.
Then the TP, which works outside of most content.
If gold is going to be the carrot thats fine but you use the carrot to lead the horse to where yall need to go. If you want to make it enjoyable horse you use it to lead it to the best places for the horse.
I personally think gold should be a side option, and way for players to exchange goods and services, not an end in and of itself. Because whatever the carrot is, has to be strictly controlled, monitored, etc. And i dont think most people here really want a heavy handed system where gold is controlled.
So yeah if the endgame is supposed to be pvp based, then they are going to lose a lot of players when endgame comes around. Which honestly seems to be somewhat true. The amount of people who have left and yet to return is not small.
but lets not get it twisted, this isnt just about casual, many midcore and hardcore people also dislike the Gold wars style and reward structures.
Midcore? I’ve always seen the discussion based on casual/hardcore divisions, now you’re subdividing casuals to support your argument?
Anyway, the game is approaching two years old now, and I’m sure that Anet has plenty of data on how many players have reached “endgame” and whether they still log in and how often. Perhaps if they do see interest waning, they will stir things up a bit by revisiting the original design and looking for things they can improve or new features to add to the game to bring players back to check it out. Perhaps they may even introduce this in one big release, almost like an expansion but without charging anything for it…
Anyway, I’ve been following the discussion more or less, but your statements are so random that I don’t even know what it is you want. Many people have claimed they complain because they love the game and want it to improve, and I think (?) you are among them, but it seems like there is nothing about the game you really like.
If you don’t like the core design of the game, why aren’t you playing one of the dozens of other MMOs out there (most of them are free to play so there’s not a lot of commitment tied to playing them for a few weeks) to see what game suits you better? I did that, in the year and a half between buying Rift and GW2 I tried many different games and if one wasn’t a good match for me I moved on, I didn’t go badmouthing it on the forums for six months.
You got a precursor drop or you play a ridiculous number of hours every week? Do you have a job?
If you’re playing casually, does it make sense that you’d get the most expensive end-game items in a few months?
Conversely — it’s fairly easy to make 5-10g/day in 1-2h. (Is that casual? I dunno, apparently I’ve been much less casual than I’d intended when I got the game.) If you make 5g/day, you’ll have 2k gold in 1y … if you’ve been doing that since launch, you’d be able to buy a legendary other than Eternity right now.
5-10 g is close to optimal farming, not casual play.
Those rewards are just not meant for casual players to be earned through casual gameplay. They are aimed at casual players that buy gold with gems and gems with real cash. Or for hardcore players that can earn them through extended gameplay.
The casual player that never buys gems brings very little to the table for Anet except the initial box sale, so why cater to their desires? The game is so designed that you can enjoy every aspect of gameplay in casual gameplay, with exotic gear and the occasional ascended drop and unique skins from achievements. Legendaries, Ascended Armour and rare skins are meant to be only obtainable by players who pay for it with real cash or hardcore players. What does the hardcore player bring to the table that the casual doesnt? He is basically the backbone of the games population, guild leaders etc. They make the game interesting for casuals that dont mind to spend money on the gem exchange.
I play probably 20-30 hours a week which I would guess is more towards the high end of casual, but I don’t do a lot of hard code grinding. I am sure I accomplish a lot less in those hours because I can be entertained by things like playing with dyes and armors for long periods. I have spent at least my fair share on bank slots, character slots, kites and a few other things, but never have I bought gold because that just seems wrong to me as I am sure it does to most others.
I don’t think it’s fair to equate casual players to those who buy gold to get the high end gear. Just because we aren’t grinders doesn’t mean we want to take short cuts. I also bet a large portion of GW2 players are casual in that they have jobs and families and the fact that it’s free to play lets people relax on how much time they spend on the game. With a free to play model Anet needs to attract lots of people and be as appealing as possible to everyone, so forcing gem for gold or crazy grind to get the good stuff should not be in their plan.
I also see no evidence they are working on a paid expansion because they are probably making plenty of money off of casual players with the current model. The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary. The Gift of Mastery is a perfect example of this in that you MUST do some piece of everything to get it. I am really hoping they choose this type of approach for a precursor hunt of some kind, but they shouldn’t go to overboard with crazy hard content in your path either.
Grinding out 2K gold worth of materials over 1000+ hours of game play is just to much for one weapon. No one is saying the TP is a bad thing, it’s just all the loot nerfing and RNG that makes gold acquisition the undesirable direction this game has gone in. The reward tracks in PvP is a great step accept for the fact I have such a low tolerance of PvP.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
If you want to focus on Legendary weapons, be prepared to do the things Anet devs want you to do for it. If you realize that this is not every player’s goal for their game time, then it opens up a lot of other possibilities to spend your time on.
So yeah if the endgame is supposed to be pvp based, then they are going to lose a lot of players when endgame comes around. Which honestly seems to be somewhat true. The amount of people who have left and yet to return is not small.
but lets not get it twisted, this isnt just about casual, many midcore and hardcore people also dislike the Gold wars style and reward structures.
Midcore? I’ve always seen the discussion based on casual/hardcore divisions, now you’re subdividing casuals to support your argument?
Anyway, the game is approaching two years old now, and I’m sure that Anet has plenty of data on how many players have reached “endgame” and whether they still log in and how often. Perhaps if they do see interest waning, they will stir things up a bit by revisiting the original design and looking for things they can improve or new features to add to the game to bring players back to check it out. Perhaps they may even introduce this in one big release, almost like an expansion but without charging anything for it…
Anyway, I’ve been following the discussion more or less, but your statements are so random that I don’t even know what it is you want. Many people have claimed they complain because they love the game and want it to improve, and I think (?) you are among them, but it seems like there is nothing about the game you really like.
If you don’t like the core design of the game, why aren’t you playing one of the dozens of other MMOs out there (most of them are free to play so there’s not a lot of commitment tied to playing them for a few weeks) to see what game suits you better? I did that, in the year and a half between buying Rift and GW2 I tried many different games and if one wasn’t a good match for me I moved on, I didn’t go badmouthing it on the forums for six months.
hardcore/softcore
First of all, i probably shouldnt use softcore/hardcore as words because no two people seem to have the same definition of what they mean. To be clear, in that case i was talking about players who are lightly invested = softcore, heavily invested = hardcore, and midcore would thus be someone who is the middle. Midcore was brought up not to support any argument, but to say that the issues effect players of ALL levels of investment.
I dont have a side:
you dont understand me, because I havent picked a side. I dont say i hate GW2 so everything sucks, I dont say i like GW2 so everythings ok. To make it clear i actually generally like GW2, but there are big disconnects on certain things. Its not really living up to the potential that it could. And its changing anyhow, so i would like to put my voice into the wind, before it reaches the point that im no longer playing at all.
The game is decided, dont try to change it:
This game is not static, its an MMO and everything is evolving and changing. The game on release is not really the same as the game is now. And also some problems that werent big on release, are moving towards points where they are starting to be problematic. So no the game isnt set in stone, it has in fact changed many times since release, and will change again. So essentially i give them feedback so that it changes in ways i think are good for the game. I could be wrong, i could be right, but ill put it out there so that i know, i tried my best, to the best of my ability, to keep the game good/improve it.
Play other games
yeah I do that, but really it doesnt change anything. People quitting the game doesnt help anet at all. Especially people who have spent money in the past and may in the future. Even if anets plan is to have people come back eventually, and take breaks, they have to develop something people want to come back to, so they should eventually consider even the guys who left, and what types of things caused them to leave, or would bring them back.
PS
I recently spent money on dark souls II and diablo expansion, If i was more invested in the game right now, that could have been anet money.
(edited by phys.7689)
The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary.
At no point the OP suggested anything towards a better rewards structure, just like many topics before, its just some people venting about potential profit margins on the TP, which arent rewards in itself because they arent given out by Anet.
If you would like to overhaul reward structures, fair enough, I am all for it. But it wont happen in a topic named “TP killing real mmo fun devs”.
Leave the Trading Post out of a discussion about rewards because there are none generated on the tp.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
Can we stop discussing other games please?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
Can we stop discussing other games please?
Ok I’ll stop discussing “other” game. But when asking in mmorpg forum, and there are only complaint about flipping in 2 of the games, 1 being GW2. So you know TP isn’t the problem itself. It’s the way TP and economy is designed in this game. Since just about every mmorpg have a TP.
I’m discussing GW2 right?
I only start discussing Rift because the guy told me how terrible the rift TP and economy is and apparently no one is even complaining on the rift forum. Apparently he thinks GW2 TP system is great, but we get complaint here.
There really isnt a variety of endgame goals/rewards in pve, and the best method for most of them is gold earning.
endgame to me doesnt necessarilly mean dungeons and raids, it means things for you to do as you reach player maturity.
As long as you can successfully complete endgame content (whatever you decide is interesting to YOU), then you have reached maturity. In no place in the game does that require a Legendary or for you to camp the TP. Therefore, TP Wars/Legendary grind doesn’t ruin ANYONE’S experience unless you LET it.
So i told you how i got my legendary/precursors, how did you get yours?
Not sure why you are attempting to pick me apart here. It’s not relevant to the thread/discussion. I got mine like everyone else. Playing the game how I want and I don’t play TP wars …
(edited by Obtena.7952)
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
Can we stop discussing other games please?
Ok I’ll stop discussing “other” game. But when asking in mmorpg forum, and there are only complaint about flipping in 2 of the games, 1 being GW2. So you know TP isn’t the problem itself. It’s the way TP and economy is designed in this game. Since just about every mmorpg have a TP.
I’m discussing GW2 right?
I only start discussing Rift because the guy told me how terrible the rift TP and economy is and apparently no one is even complaining on the rift forum. Apparently he thinks GW2 TP system is great, but we get complaint here.
Can we also stop discussing other game forums, please?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
Can we stop discussing other games please?
Ok I’ll stop discussing “other” game. But when asking in mmorpg forum, and there are only complaint about flipping in 2 of the games, 1 being GW2. So you know TP isn’t the problem itself. It’s the way TP and economy is designed in this game. Since just about every mmorpg have a TP.
I’m discussing GW2 right?
I only start discussing Rift because the guy told me how terrible the rift TP and economy is and apparently no one is even complaining on the rift forum. Apparently he thinks GW2 TP system is great, but we get complaint here.
Can we also stop discussing other game forums, please?
well, “you can just ignore me”, eventhough you been nice to me and giving me pointers for the game, I kind of ignore many of your response. We’ll just be running in circle anyway, and you’ll start telling people flipping dont’ get any rewards and people just give you money.
and the below response isn’t necessary for you.
People only complain about flipping because “basically people get crap from adventure or farming” compare to flipping. If you can’t buy your way to “the ultimate rewards”, which is legendary etc, no one will be complaining.
And even if you can buy your way to the “ultimate rewards”, if the “price were stable”, no one will be complaining about flipping too.
And if flippers can’t take advantage of the buy order system from other player, or if there is an expire time on selling items, that’ll cut down the profit for flippers. Which in results might make adventure or farming more rewarding in comparison, no one will be complaining about flipping.
There is nothing wrong with flipping. It’s just flipping shouldn’t be so much more rewarding than the actual dungeon, pvp, or world events.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. For the record, the Rift economy is fine, I had a very easy time making money. Most players there didn’t even know how to do what I did, so why would they complain about something when they didn’t know it was happening?
People only complain about flipping because “basically people get crap from adventure or farming” compare to flipping. If you can’t buy your way to “the ultimate rewards”, which is legendary etc, no one will be complaining.
And even if you can buy your way to the “ultimate rewards”, if the “price were stable”, no one will be complaining about flipping too.
And if flippers can’t take advantage of the buy order system from other player, or if there is an expire time on selling items, that’ll cut down the profit for flippers. Which in results might make adventure or farming more rewarding in comparison, no one will be complaining about flipping.
There is nothing wrong with flipping. It’s just flipping shouldn’t be so much more rewarding than the actual dungeon, pvp, or world events.
Just take your reward loot drops and sell them at the same value the flipper would and , BOOM, you make as much profit as the flipper.
What is so hard about it?
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
No one is saying the TP is a bad thing…
Actually several people have said exactly that in recent threads.
I think what they meant is “TP in this game” is a bad thing.
No one is complaining on the Rift forum.
You can even ask in any mmorpg forum. People arn’t complaining about TP in other mmorpg. Beside in games like GW2 and vanilla Diablo 3.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. For the record, the Rift economy is fine, I had a very easy time making money. Most players there didn’t even know how to do what I did, so why would they complain about something when they didn’t know it was happening?
no one even care how much you make in rift. maybe that’s why no one complained.
And that’s what they said in rift, they dont’ even care. It’s not like you can buy legendary.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
People only complain about flipping because “basically people get crap from adventure or farming” compare to flipping. If you can’t buy your way to “the ultimate rewards”, which is legendary etc, no one will be complaining.
And even if you can buy your way to the “ultimate rewards”, if the “price were stable”, no one will be complaining about flipping too.
And if flippers can’t take advantage of the buy order system from other player, or if there is an expire time on selling items, that’ll cut down the profit for flippers. Which in results might make adventure or farming more rewarding in comparison, no one will be complaining about flipping.
There is nothing wrong with flipping. It’s just flipping shouldn’t be so much more rewarding than the actual dungeon, pvp, or world events.
Just take your reward loot drops and sell them at the same value the flipper would and , BOOM, you make as much profit as the flipper.
What is so hard about it?
That’s why it’s pointless to talk to you. I probably have more playing hour farming and doing dungeon, and you make more money than you sitting infront of the trading post.
I could literally play 10 hours a day everyday farming money and I wont’ have as much money as you.
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
oh no, we are humans. And can’t have human basic behavior…
most counter poster have greediness in their genes too.
I suppose there is nothing wrong with child labor making shoes and cloths for those cooperate company from US and Europe. Anyone complaining about it, is just self entitled and jealous, those people are suppose to get pennys for working 12 hours a day.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
oh no, we are humans. And can’t have human basic behavior…
You can, but if your mature, you don’t use those negative feelings to justify having things your way.
The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary.
At no point the OP suggested anything towards a better rewards structure, just like many topics before, its just some people venting about potential profit margins on the TP, which arent rewards in itself because they arent given out by Anet.
If you would like to overhaul reward structures, fair enough, I am all for it. But it wont happen in a topic named “TP killing real mmo fun devs”.
Leave the Trading Post out of a discussion about rewards because there are none generated on the tp.
I’ve done almost everything that is doable from pve perspective and whats left is getting some few nice shinies that I want, normally I would just relive the old content play the game, play it with alts and what not to work towards those shinies but why would I if I can get much more progress by doing nothing so instead of playing the game like some other people do I just log in for 15-20 minutes a day to place orders go off and reap much better profits than normal players THAT ARE PLAYING THE ACTUAL GAME
The OP said directly he has little incentive to play the ‘adventure’ part of the game because he can get his shinies in much less time by playing the TP instead. In other words if actually playing the game rewarded him better he wouldn’t feel like he is wasting his time adventuring. So YES, this is about the reward system being pathetic and this game becoming Gold Wars. Gold is a reward and it’s what you get from TP flipping. It trumps every other reward in the game.
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
oh no, we are humans. And can’t have human basic behavior…
You can, but if your mature, you don’t use those negative feelings to justify having things your way.
Kind of ironic using those about others to justify having your way. Ofc if you meant to call yourself immature, my apologies. You have every right to do so.
Serenity now~Insanity later
The point of this thread is to try and steer ANet towards better rewards for adventure game play and away from having to master market speculation to get a Legendary.
At no point the OP suggested anything towards a better rewards structure, just like many topics before, its just some people venting about potential profit margins on the TP, which arent rewards in itself because they arent given out by Anet.
If you would like to overhaul reward structures, fair enough, I am all for it. But it wont happen in a topic named “TP killing real mmo fun devs”.
Leave the Trading Post out of a discussion about rewards because there are none generated on the tp.I’ve done almost everything that is doable from pve perspective and whats left is getting some few nice shinies that I want, normally I would just relive the old content play the game, play it with alts and what not to work towards those shinies but why would I if I can get much more progress by doing nothing so instead of playing the game like some other people do I just log in for 15-20 minutes a day to place orders go off and reap much better profits than normal players THAT ARE PLAYING THE ACTUAL GAME
The OP said directly he has little incentive to play the ‘adventure’ part of the game because he can get his shinies in much less time by playing the TP instead. In other words if actually playing the game rewarded him better he wouldn’t feel like he is wasting his time adventuring. So YES, this is about the reward system being pathetic and this game becoming Gold Wars. Gold is a reward and it’s what you get from TP flipping. It trumps every other reward in the game.
Thanks for proving my point. All the OP did was to complain about potential profits on the TP. If people want better reward structures, they should make suggestions towards it, not complain about something that cant be seen as a reward in the first place.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
oh no, we are humans. And can’t have human basic behavior…
You can, but if your mature, you don’t use those negative feelings to justify having things your way.
I’m trying to put some logic in to the game designer “this is not trading post war”.
Or maybe it should be called trading post war, since Anet is trying to do something different. Since if Anet want to be the only mmorpg on the market to have people complaining about flippers, they can be.
Maybe they should try to drive more players by renaming it to trading post wars, and emphasize how much emphasis is for players to sit in front of the trading post trading to lure more players. There should be some games for everyone right?
Hey you are doing the same thing right? Trying to use the word “self entitled, and jealousy”. Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
you make more profit “with less time”. That’s why. And you’ll just come back with some silly argument anyway.
You mean arguments like “entitlement, jealousy and unfairness” because that’s exactly how this statement comes across.
oh no, we are humans. And can’t have human basic behavior…
You can, but if your mature, you don’t use those negative feelings to justify having things your way.
I’m trying to put some logic in to the game designer “this is not trading post war”.
Or maybe it should be called trading post war, since Anet is trying to do something different. Since if Anet want to be the only mmorpg on the market to have people complaining about flippers, they can be.
Maybe they should try to drive more players by renaming it to trading post wars, and emphasize how much emphasis is for players to sit in front of the trading post trading to lure more players. There should be some games for everyone right?
Hey you are doing the same thing right? Trying to use the word “self entitled, and jealousy”. Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.
Again a compelling suggestion towards better reward structures. Renaming the game.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
even if they make some reward structures better the TP still will be the most rewarding thing in the game as the game itself is designed around it and gold aquisition thats the kittening problem but you either dont get it or you pretend not to because all you care about is your precious profits
even if they make some reward structures better the TP still will be the most rewarding thing in the game as the game itself is designed around it and gold aquisition thats the kittening problem but you either dont get it or you pretend not to because all you care about is your precious profits
I get it well enough. But i yet have to see a valid suggestion on how to nerf trading post profits (for a few people in the game) or better reward structures in this topic.
Tin Foil [HATS]-Hardcore BLTC-PvP Guild
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Bloin – Running around, tagging Keeps, getting whack on Scoobie Snacks.
Maybe if you can emphasize on the world unfairness, you can understand why people are complaining.
You’re being unrealistic here. The rewards are structured in a way that makes them fair because every single person has access to every activity in the game; almost completely independent of gear or skill as well. So really, even the most incompetent player can get anything they want if they make their goal and spent the time needed to achieve it. The only barrier to being rewarded in the game by doing whatever you want, how you want to …. is you. Their isn’t some game mechanic that stops you from taking advantage of these methods or earning gold while playing how you want. You’re simply not recognizing that earning whatever you want in this game is up to you and is a matter of time only.
(edited by Obtena.7952)